Re: Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 10:30

Am I confusing detecting cadaverine with detecting the scent of human decomposition?
I just read that cadaver dogs are trained using chemicals (plural) that mimic the scent of decomposing flesh.

So not just cadaverine but the others like putriscene?

by **crusader** 20.09.24 10:38

Eddie also alerted to blood, that's why the two dogs worked together.
If Keela alerted to blood, Eddie was brought in to detect cadaverine.
That is why Keela didn't react to the wardrobe in the McCann's bedroom.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 10:40

Keela only alerted to dried blood.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 11:28

What Are Cadaver Dogs?

Cadaver dogs are dogs who are trained to pick up the scent of human remains (which is why you’ll sometimes see them referred to as human-remains detection dogs).

Their work may seem similar to search and rescue dogs, but cadaver dogs play a distinctly different role. While the former is trained to pick up the general scent of humans, cadaver dogs specialize in detecting decomposing flesh. A trained cadaver dog is 95 percent effective at picking up the scents of human decomposition, including bodies that are buried up to 15 feet deep.

Law enforcement groups rely on cadaver dogs to help solve crimes where a dead body is suspected. Not only does this provide more evidence that can be used in court, it can also provide much-needed closure in cases where a missing person is assumed dead but not definitively so. Cadaver dogs are often used in conjunction with search and rescue dogs, since that allows humans to be found both alive or dead.

Training for cadaver dogs includes:

Trailing: This is a skill that allows dogs to pick up on scents that have fallen on the ground, such as instances in which a body was dragged.
Air-scenting: A skill for picking up scents in the air, which includes smelling decomposing remains in the air and following the scent to its source.

Cadaver dogs are trained in certified training facilities, where special chemicals are used to mimic the scents of decomposing human flesh before the dog moves on to training with real body parts. Each dog receives about 1,000 hours of training before they are ready to work in the field, making them a highly valuable investment for law enforcement and other types of search groups.

Why Are Dogs So Good at Finding Cadavers?

We may never understand the full power of the canine nose, but we do know that it is immensely capable at finding and distinguishing between scents—including those that our human noses would never be able to source on their own.

Dogs have roughly 200 million olfactory receptors in their nose, making their sense of smell about 40 times greater than that of the average human. This allows them to sniff out everything from bombs, drugs, and living and dead human flesh to certain diseases. They can even smell emotions.

The use of dogs to find human remains is nothing new. According to a paper in the Journal of Archeological Method and Theory, dogs have been helping to track down dead bodies since around 700 B.C., and over the many centuries since, they’ve shown a remarkable ability to recognize the scent of decomposing flesh, regardless of whether it’s hours old or decades old.

Worth mentioning is that not all dogs’ noses have an equal sense of smell. German Shepherds, which are a common breed of cadaver dog, boast about 225 million olfactory receptors, while Dachshunds have closer to 125 million. And the more receptors the dog has, the better suited they are to the tricky task of finding human remains.

Other Interesting Facts About Cadaver Dogs

There’s a whole lot to be impressed about when it comes to cadaver dogs. And just in case you’re not already in awe of these extraordinary canines, here are some additional facts about cadaver dogs that are worth knowing about:

Cadaver dogs are able to tell the difference between human remains and animal remains, which means they’ll know right away if the scent they’re picking up is from a person or from decomposing wildlife.
Because they’re trained to pick up scents both on the ground and in the air, cadaver dogs can identify crime scenes even if the body has since been moved. Depending on the circumstances, they may also be able to lead search teams to where the body was relocated to.
Cadaver dogs work tirelessly both in training and in the field. Altogether, they can identify hundreds of different scents related to decomposition, versus the handful of scents a drug- or bomb-sniffing dog might be trained to sniff out.
During training, cadaver dogs learn to differentiate between types of decomposing flesh, including recently dead victims, long dead victims, and drowned victims.

by Justice for Maddie 20.09.24 11:29

https://www.thesprucepets.com/cadaver-dogs-1113771

by Buzz Shine 20.09.24 12:39

PeterMac wrote:If they were lucky with a waiter, or ordered at the bar, my educated guess would be no earlier than 21:35 before they placed the order

And the two men say they were there for about an HOUR

[The attempts to 'salami slice' the actual time of the sighting are fascinating. The bloke on FB is priceless. He is trying to time the last drink at 21, which gives them TEN minutes to order, drink, pay and leave. NOT the HOUR which Martin and Peter Smith allow for their "few drinks" ]

To make an educated guess about something, is to salami slice something. But nothing will ever alter the fact that when it comes to Smithman wild guesswork is all we have to work on. I'll emphasis once more, that does NOT mean Smithman is Gerry, it just means it's not proof that he is not.

We can all cherry pick the snippets of evidence that suits one theory over another and I accept your analysis has as much merit as any another but we also have to accept it's not proof. It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

"Questioned, she (Aoife Smith) responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland."

I'm a great believer in practising what we preach when it comes to 'keeping an open mind', or what's the point in preaching it. Hence my likes for some of the comments on the merits of Gerry NOT being Smithman. But some people on here can't even work that bit out for themselves.

You can all keep believing I am some guy from Facebook who came on here to disrupt your forum if you want, but all that does is prove my point, that none of you are infallible detectives.

This is definitely goodbye.

Let's raise a glass to keeping an open mind.

.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 12:51

Don't say goodbye Buzz Shine, I think you made a good point.

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 12:53

Buzz Shine wrote:

Let's raise a glass to keeping an open mind. .

Or raise a pushchair.

Cheerio.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 12:59

You must do what you want Buzz but finding the truth about Madeleine is why we are here.
Ride the storm, I would.

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 13:03

crusader wrote:Don't say goodbye Buzz Shine, I think you made a good point.

Which one was that?

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:06

This one.

It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

by **AnneCGuedes** 20.09.24 13:07

crusader wrote:Eddie also alerted to blood, that's why the two dogs worked together.
If Keela alerted to blood, Eddie was brought in to detect cadaverine.
That is why Keela didn't react to the wardrobe in the McCann's bedroom.

Eddie was always the first one sent (by the way cadaver scent is a compound of more than 400 volatile molecules). Keela didn't react in the MC bedroom (first place where Eddie alerted) because there was no blood that had dried on spot).

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:10

In the same vein, it's also possible that most of the family set off before the bill was paid at the Dolphin restaurant.

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 13:14

Buzz Shine wrote:all that does is prove my point, that none of you are infallible detectives.

This is definitely goodbye.

PeterMac is a retired Police Superintendent, with a 30 year service, which included being a detective.

I won't ask what your qualifications are as that would elicit a response.

Goodbye.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:16

AnneCGuedes wrote

Eddie was always the first one sent (by the way cadaver scent is a compound of more than 400 volatile molecules). Keela didn't react in the MC bedroom (first place where Eddie alerted) because there was no blood that had dried on spot)

That's what I said in my post #253 ^^^

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:17

Have you got an itchy foot Jill?

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 13:20

Not on this occasion...I shall let him leave of his own volition. big grin

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 13:20

crusader wrote:This one.

It's possible the tribe had been collected and were on their way when the bill was paid at Kelly's. That is another possibility, even if it's not a probability.

Did it take 27 minutes to pay the bill?

Martin Smith statement.
" Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant, following the path, as it is very short"

??

Another wrong time by him.

That's "they left" by the way.

And let's not forget that Smith forgot it was Gerry by January 2008.

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 13:23

...and bar bills get paid when you order.

Bar keepers are not stupid.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:27

I'm going off what Aoife said, I also think Aoife would have given a better description of what the man was wearing.
In my experience, men don't notice what other men are wearing unless they have a keen eye for fashion.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 13:30

I keep forgetting to ask Bluebag, where can I read about Smith forgetting it was Gerry in 2008?

by **Nina** 20.09.24 13:52

PeterMac wrote:
Nina wrote:
crusader wrote:I'm really sorry not to agree with Peter's analysis, I feel bad but I cant help what I think.
I'm sure we discussed cadaverine somewhere, doesn't it start at the moment of death?
If Madeleine had died soon after the high tea, I'm sure if she had laid there even a couple of hours the dog's would have detected it but I'm no expert.
Is Martin Smith not a nice man or a man who imposes his will on his family, I believe him to be the former.
Yes from the moment of death the body begins to change once starved of oxygen. The first organ to begin this process is the brain. Strange that the pro McCann crew are prepared to repeat that the scent on Kate's clothes were due to her having certified death in patients as though this is done hours after death hence the scent of cadaverine but aren't prepared to admit that the scent was reacted to by Eddie in the apartment etc. This first scent of course isn't discernible to a human being as it isn't the cloying sickening scent of advanced decomposition.

https://www.aftermath.com/content/human-decomposition/#:~:text=The%20first%20stage%20of%20human,membranes%20in%20cells%20to%20rupture.

Upthread somewhere
Cadaverine is a decay product of the amino acid Lysine which is present in blood, and in children in slightly higher concentrations than in adults
"Cadaverine is produced by decarboxylation of lysine." WIKI

LYSINE

CADAVERINE

From which it is clear what has happened.
The Carboxyl group -C(=O)OH at the right hand end has 'dropped off' during decomposition,
Enzymes attack the molecule and the carboxyl group is destroyed first releasing Carbon Dioxide

This means that the blood on the floor and between the tiles and up the walls would begin to decay
and be available for discovery by the dogs three months later, EVEN IF the body were "so swiftly removed". (Kate, Book. Yes really !)

Hi Peter. This is the most up to date publication I could find and it does indeed offer many links within the main body to research further. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10538644/

by **Nina** 20.09.24 13:57

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10538644/

by **Jill Havern** 20.09.24 15:32

Hey Buzz, you've said goodbye to us twice yet you're still here.

The only post you've 'disliked' on this thread is mine where I said I didn't have an itchy foot.

So let me help you out.

Latest from PeterMac's FREE e-book: CHAPTER 63 SMITH-GERRY-MAN SCRUTINISED - Page 9 Downl111

And don't come back.
You've outstayed your welcome.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 15:53

I could see that coming.

by **Bluebagthepirate** 20.09.24 16:44

crusader wrote:I keep forgetting to ask Bluebag, where can I read about Smith forgetting it was Gerry in 2008?

Media interviews January 2008.

Wanted to help the McCanns in every way he could.

by **crusader** 20.09.24 16:51

Thanks for that Bluebag, I never heard that before.

by Honesty 20.09.24 17:03

Which media interviews were these. Could you post links to them, please.

by **Ladyinred** 20.09.24 17:17

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11521-smithman-8-the-nine-phases-of-smithman-how-the-smiths-became-part-of-the-mccann-team-in-january-2008?highlight=Smith#bottom

by **crusader** 20.09.24 17:39

Thanks Ladyinred, Martin Smith has maintained he has never given any statement or photofits to anyone though.
According to a statement he made in Ireland on 30th January 2008, he said he was contacted by Brian Kennedy to take part on a photo fit exercise.
He said he has given no stories or helped in any photo fits.
He also sent solicitors letters to 6 newspapers because they misquoted him.
All the newspapers printed an apology and the Evening Herald paid his solicitors fees.

So in my opinion, Martin Smith never said he wanted to help the McCann's, it was all lies by the news media.

What Are Cadaver Dogs?

Why Are Dogs So Good at Finding Cadavers?

Other Interesting Facts About Cadaver Dogs

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