Re: Bernt Stellander interview

by Ladyinred 24.08.24 10:40

Jill Havern wrote:Oh, I see what you mean.

I meant he sent free copies out to people like the McCanns, Tapas7, the Nuggets, Pat Brown, Natasha Donn, Sonia Poulton, PJ, GA, Grange, Wolters, Fulscher, Clarence Mitchell, some journalists including Jon Clarke, Martin Brunt etc...

So why aren't Brunt, Clarke et al commenting on the book thinking

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 10:49

I dunno, let me find out onphone

Me: Hey Martin, why aren't you commenting on the Brick?
MB: Sod off.

Me: Hey Superman, why aren't you commenting on the Brick?
JC: F*** off, CB did it.

Charming.

$i don\'t know$

by crusader 24.08.24 11:24

If the nuggets are innocent and they got a book in the mail accusing them of conspiring with the McCann's to commit a serious crime, wouldn't they be taking action against Stellander and getting the police involved?
The silence is deafening.

by Ladyinred 24.08.24 12:36

Has Bernt accused the Nuggets of a crime? He may have written about his observations of them, which is not the same thing.

No-one involved will comment, they don't want to draw attention to the book. Privately, they will be busy, IMO.

by crusader 24.08.24 12:44

Not a crime they committed, but conspiring with the McCann's to avoid them being caught.
If they were on the Rocher Negra surreptitiously rummaging about, then they are involved in my opinion.
Unless of course, Stellander has completely got it wrong and they were looking for the dog's lost ball.

by Bluebagthepirate 24.08.24 12:46

The Nuggets are sometime members of the congregation of the church in PDL.

I'm sure some of those members know who they are from the nick-name and are asking questions behind the scenes.

I did consider joining their Facebook group to ask some questions about if they were aware what was being said about one of the congregation?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 14:44

PeterMac wrote:
And thus are internet myths started
Bernt wrote the book IN ENGLISH - his second language, and had it translated into Portuguese so it would be easily accessible to – amongst others – the PJ !
There is no Norwegian version.
The postage alone for the free copies he has sent to people to review and to get his hypothesis better known is over €1500, which also represents about another €1850 in printing costs and delivery to him.
My own bill is somewhat less, but not inconsiderable. It was judged necessary for Operation Brick to move forward

Did anyone receive a free copy of Jon Clarke's book ? Even to review ? Or Summers and Swann's ? Or Kate McCann's ?
Or did they all know that no one who knew anything about the case would be remotely impressed ?

He acknowledges both Nigel Moore and Pamalam in the introduction and is in contact with her.

A myth!!! I must be the only person who understands your post, PeterMac, because you are reacting here to a message I sent and was whooshed.

The book's editor, Maria Esther de Modocromia, told me (I asked) that the book was written in Norwegian. BS then translated it himself into English and this version was reviewed by an English-speaking Portuguese. A Portuguese man translated it from English into Portuguese. Of course the quality of a translation depends on the quality of the original.

Would Marie Esther have lied? And why?

BS could have thanked the translators, it was an opportunity to show gratitude as translations were done for free.

Since, as you say, BS is in contact with Pam, PeterMac, I'd be very grateful for confirmation that she's all right, because I haven't had a reply to my many emails for a long time. The fact that there is no mention of BS's book on her site worries me greatly.

by Ladyinred 24.08.24 15:03

I read your post, and noticed it had disappeared.

Bernt probably drafted the book in his native Norwegian for translation by him when complete.

by pinkgladioli 24.08.24 15:26

Bluebagthepirate wrote:The Nuggets are sometime members of the congregation of the church in PDL.

I'm sure some of those members know who they are from the nick-name and are asking questions behind the scenes.

I did consider joining their Facebook group to ask some questions about if they were aware what was being said about one of the congregation?

We don’t know what congregation the Nugget’s belongs to with the church being used for differing and separate denomination’s
Some of the Anglican’s seem to be a nice bunch not!

There’s an article from 2006 Guardian that is worth a read, regarding a chaplain of the congregations of Almancil, Luz, and St Luke being bullied out by parishioners

Clergyman compensated after bullying by Algarve retirees
(Guardian fri 21 July 2006)

Mr Britt said: My style of ministry was not welcomed by some of the congregation who waged a campaign to get rid of me that included my being subjected to abusive phone calls emails and some parishioners refusing to take communion from me.

One of Mr Britt’s supporters Paul Luckman told the Guardian: There are lots of people who retire here from powerful backgrounds and find themselves with nothing else to do, They resented being asked to put their hands in their pockets for the stewardship programme

by **PeterMac** 24.08.24 15:36

Maria may have misunderstood. In fact MUST have misunderstood.
Bernt wrote the brick in ENGLISH and arranged with the publishers, to have it professionally translated into Portuguese, for which he paid. (a LOT)
As he has observed, every reference he uses is in English, so that was the logical choice
All his notes over the seven years were also in English
But what possible difference does it make to Madeleine’s death on Wednesday 2nd May 2007 ?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 16:26

PeterMac wrote:Maria may have misunderstood. In fact MUST have misunderstood.
Bernt wrote the brick in ENGLISH and arranged with the publishers, to have it professionally translated into Portuguese, for which he paid. (a LOT)
As he has observed, every reference he uses is in English, so that was the logical choice
All his notes over the seven years were also in English
But what possible difference does it make to Madeleine’s death on Wednesday 2nd May 2007 ?

What about Pamalam ?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 16:36

I asked Maria Esther, in Portuguese of course, if the book had been written in English. She hesitated a little, then said it had been written in Norwegian but translated by the author and revised by an English-speaking Portuguese. I explained that I just wanted to know in which language the book was closer to the original version, as I read in both languages.

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 17:11

Ladyinred wrote:I read your post, and noticed it had disappeared.

Bernt probably drafted the book in his native Norwegian for translation by him when complete.

Bernt told me he wrote the book (and all his notes over the course of his investigation) in English.

Why would he write an 850 page manuscript in Norwegian and then write those same 850 pages all over again in English? Makes no sense.

By the way, Bernt speaks perfect English when he's doing podcasts etc.

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 18:48

A few (rare) authors (not people who write books) have written in their mother tongue and also in adopted languages, such as Fernando Pessoa or Vladimir Nabokov. A translator normally translates from a foreign language into their mother tongue.

Some of the PJFiles translators, whose mother tongue was English, did not know Portuguese, but were Spanish speakers. Nevertheless, this led to a few errors that I always pointed out to Pamalam when I discovered them.

The robot translators who translate into English have a mediocre style and sometimes make misunderstandings, but on the whole they are acceptable.

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 18:50

Have you read Bernt's book?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 18:52

Jill Havern wrote:Have you read Bernt's book?

Yes.

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 18:56

Did you listen to his podcast with James English?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 19:57

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 20:00

Could you understand him?

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 21:12

James English ? It took me a while to get used to his Glasgowian accent.

by **Jill Havern** 24.08.24 21:17

No.

Were you able to understand Bernt? (It's him we're talking about on this thread)

If you were able to understand him for 3 hours, and you've read his book, what is your problem with him?

Would you like to write a review of his book for us on this thread?
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t17580-brick-reviews

by AnneCGuedes 24.08.24 23:28

If I were writing a review, I probably wouldn't say everything I think, because freedom of expression doesn't exist on forums in general and I've been banned from at least 3 just for telling what I thought ! But I wouldn't say anything I don't think.

BS certainly says what he thinks, I've sometimes wondered if he meant what he said and thought through the implications of what he said. Not because he resorts to sophistry, he wants to say at the same time everything he has gathered here and there, very often what he says is jumbled up and hampers what he wants to say.

The difficulty, sometimes, is not to grasp what he's saying, but to work out what he's aiming at. I never wondered what he was referring to when I listened to him in the interview because I know this case very well, but anyone who only knows what the media have said about it might be lost and I'm not sure that the interview encourages people to read his book.

Here's an example:

"I remembered Kate's turning point to dream, the alleged dream, that she called to Paiva the liaison (officer) when Gerry was in Washington DC about Maddie being hidden on a hillside overlooking a beach in PdL and I thought "eh, what is this ? Are you trying to have the police find her" and then Gerry's response when he came back uh he was in court in Lisbon then he was alone on camera (I was there, K was not in the camera's field of vision but very close by, she could hear but said nothing) and he said "it's not true that Kate had a dream that M was buried somewhere" (G was right, RP didn't talk about a child being buried, but lying on a cliff), he used that word, and then I thought "wow he's uh kind of confirming that Hillside might be very interesting" and uh I went up that Hillside and I had this revelation about their jogging.. I thought this is brilliant if they hid her there in the future they could always go back and nobody would suspect anything why they were there."

KMC (in ‘Madeleine’) reports that she called Ricardo Paiva for help translating letters on 23 July 2007. BS, who does not mention the reason (according to K) for the call, omits to say that K feels Ricardo is ‘distant’ and wonders whether he is not influenced by the conclusions of Danie Krügel (who came at the insistence of MC, supposed to be rational as doctors). BS doesn't mention RP's slightly different version of the same scene in the Lisbon Court of justice : K tells him, crying, about a dream in which ‘Madeleine is on a cliff, we must go and find her’. RP's version is all the more reliable given that K, in her diary, reports that, that very morning, as she was running up the cliff, she had been surrounded by a dozen dogs and had prayed ‘Oh God, don't let Madeleine be buried here’.

It didn't escape RP's notice that, if K had only wanted to share her dream, she could phone her family or friends or even her husband. He ‘heard’ that K admitted the possibility of M's death. This was in line with her request to send for Krügel, whose hair machine had just detected a static signal.

BS didn't see it that way and went on to describe GMC's reaction during the trial against GA et al, in January 2010, as if the two scenes were consecutive in time, even though they were separated by two and a half years!

You might think that these are just details, but I agree with Ludwig Mies van der Rohe's ‘God is in the details’: it's by paying attention to the small intricacies and focusing on the minutiae, that we have a chance of understanding.

by **PeterMac** 25.08.24 6:51

I have a strange and some may say illogical feeling that discussion of Bernt Stellander's BOOK
should be restricted to people who have actually READ it.

And perhaps that people who want to comment on the INTERVIEW should perhaps have listened to it.
They might also wish to take into account that he was not well, though that is his problem not theirs.

It is my personal view that Stellender improved on Mies van de Rohe's statement, which itself was an attempt to improve on the previous "The Devil is in the detail" – just as it is easy to improve on his architecture by inserting at least one aesthetic curve into his bleak modernist right-angled designs – when he said

"the Truth is in the details ". p.918 Kindle edition. p.602 BRICK Edition

POSTSCRIPTUM:
I have a copy of Maddie - Fabrication d'un Mythe, by Anne A. Corrêa-Guedes, but would not DREAM of commenting on it or reviewing it,
It has been written in French, for reasons which are not immediately obvious, there is no English translation available (SFAIK), and although I speak français de la rue au quotidien my limited vocabulary and lack of a reasonable command of the structure of tenses – particularly the conditional and subjunctive moods which will, I am confident, be important
in the text discussion of what might or could have happened were something else to be true, makes it dangerous even to open it.

by **Jill Havern** 25.08.24 10:48

AnneCGuedes wrote:If I were writing a review, I probably wouldn't say everything I think, because freedom of expression doesn't exist on forums in general and I've been banned from at least 3 just for telling what I thought ! But I wouldn't say anything I don't think.
You seem to wear 'I've been banned from at least 3' as a badge of honour!

BS certainly says what he thinks, I've sometimes wondered if he meant what he said and thought through the implications of what he said. Not because he resorts to sophistry, he wants to say at the same time everything he has gathered here and there, very often what he says is jumbled up and hampers what he wants to say.

The difficulty, sometimes, is not to grasp what he's saying, but to work out what he's aiming at. I never wondered what he was referring to when I listened to him in the interview because I know this case very well, but anyone who only knows what the media have said about it might be lost and I'm not sure that the interview encourages people to read his book.

So you haven't read Bernt's book then?

If you have, and would like to post a review, then please do so on the thread I gave you where it will remain on view to our many guests all around the world unedited and uncensored.

by crusader 25.08.24 10:53

If I'd been banned from at least 3 forums, I would start to look at myself instead of blaming them.

by AnneCGuedes 25.08.24 19:46

crusader wrote:If I'd been banned from at least 3 forums, I would start to look at myself instead of blaming them.

Just to feed your sanctimonious comment, the last one was "Miscarriage of Justice" where I published my reports about MC v Ga et al (there was no transcript because recording is not allowed in a court of law in PT). Some posters insinuated that I made it up and one, a certain KMC, declared I was the first on the list that Carter-Ruck will accuse of defamation, without John reacting, except "if you're not happy, leave", which I did, as several of us.

by crusader 25.08.24 20:02

So you weren't banned then, you left of your own accord.
My comment wasn't meant to be sanctimonious, I govern myself by personal responsibility and that is what I personally would do if I was banned from more than one forum.

by **Jill Havern** 25.08.24 20:06

We've got quite a lot of threads on this forum about your translations, Anne

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/search?search_keywords=guedes

by Ladyinred 25.08.24 20:14

AnneCGuedes wrote:
crusader wrote:If I'd been banned from at least 3 forums, I would start to look at myself instead of blaming them.

Just to feed your sanctimonious comment, the last one was "Miscarriage of Justice" where I published my reports about MC v Ga et al (there was no transcript because recording is not allowed in a court of law in PT). Some posters insinuated that I made it up and one, a certain KMC, declared I was the first on the list that Carter-Ruck will accuse of defamation, without John reacting, except "if you're not happy, leave", which I did, as several of us.

I think you were brave to join that board - it's very pro-abduction, and dismissive of any alternative reasons for M's disappearance.

by AnneCGuedes 25.08.24 20:27

crusader wrote:So you weren't banned then, you left of your own accord.
My comment wasn't meant to be sanctimonious, I govern myself by personal responsibility and that is what I personally would do if I was banned from more than one forum.

Come on, Crusader, what a fallacy ! "if you're not happy (as I protested against an unacceptable situation where John reacted like a coward likely for fear of the MCs), then leave the forum", "submit or get out" is what, if not banishment ? There was no room for discussion : you will respect the boss, he is always right. And when you're right against him, that's not a good enough reason to make him wrong.

However, and paradoxically, John didn't erase my allegedly "invented" reports and furthermore, when another trial occurred, he tried to get me back to his forum !

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