The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Mm11

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Mm11

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Regist10

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post new topic   

View previous topic View next topic Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by sharonl 27.02.21 17:11

thinking  It seems that the McCanns paid for hire car by Credit card.


More discussion on the credit cards here:  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

9 June 2007
 
Gerry takes an early-morning flight from Faro, Portugal, to Gatwick, London, landing shortly before midday. The flying visit is for a series of meetings, one of which is to appoint a campaign manager - Justine McGuinness.
 
On the plane to London, a man in his 80's - who has never been named - becomes ill midway through the flight. Reports on the severity of the illness range from the man simply fainting and Gerry offering assistance to the man being administered oxygen and Gerry saving his life.
 
Within minutes/an hour/hours of landing Gerry has his wallet stolen at an ATM at Waterloo station/cash machine near the Foreign Office in Whitehall.
 
According to Philomena McCann, Gerry's sister, "He bent down to put something in his rucksack and some dirty animal had the wallet out of his back pocket."
 
It is reported to have contained £100 cash, credit cards and two/three "irreplaceable" photographs of Madeleine that have never been seen in public and, of which, there are no copies. Reports suggest that these were Gerry's favourite pictures and that one showed Madeleine aged 15 months, while another was taken at a church shortly before her disappearance.
 
Some reports have suggested that the pictures included the twins and it's possible the picture taken in church may have been taken when the McCanns attended the christening of one of Jon Corner's children, at the end of March 2007 (see report at bottom of this page).
 
Gerry has to cancel all his credit cards, thus delaying him and causing the meetings to run on late into the evening. However, he does get to all his meetings, where he reports in his blog that there were 'very good discussions regarding sustaining the search for Madeleine long term'.
 
The Evening Standard reported that London police had said they 'had no record of the theft being reported to officers'. In addition, Clarence Mitchell confirmed that Gerry had attended a meeting at London's foreign office, on Tuesday, but 'could not immediately confirm details of the theft'.
sharonl
sharonl
Co-Admin
Co-Admin

Posts : 7687
Activity : 10275
Likes received : 1375
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Silentscope 27.02.21 17:27

It sure would have been useful for the PJ to be able to track theIr Financial records in order to rule them in or out of the investigation.
Silentscope
Silentscope

Posts : 761
Activity : 791
Likes received : 30
Join date : 2020-06-30

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 28.02.21 20:39

Something has been lost in translation here, the likelihood of Gerry and/or Kate McCann not possessing credit cards is remote in the extreme.  The plastic card was the beginning of the great personal banking shift, from queuing at the bank to freedom of access to personal finances and borrowed money by the means of a credit card - and what an advance that was!  I could actually travel without a book of travelers cheques closely encased in my money belt and later deposited in a hotel safety box.

From Gonçalo Amaral's book - The Truth of the Lie

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, "they are in the process of gathering that information."

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns' financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

- That's quite simply not possible!

- They don't have credit cards? However, we know that they hold at least two: one which they used to pay for the flights, and a second which was used for the hire of the Renault Scenic.

- The English need to sort themselves out. We need the McCanns' financial statements from the start of their holiday in Portugal.

It's obvious we're going to have a hard time getting the required details: with such information, it would not be difficult to follow the McCanns' trail, to know about their expenses, their movements, and to draw conclusions from what came up. Meanwhile, Stuart makes another request. He says it would be a good idea to send two rogatory letters: one for the friends and another for the McCann couple. We don't understand this one.

I did some research into this back in the day, off the top of my head there was good reason why such information wasn't traceable, not because it was withheld by the UK authorities for some sinister reason but a simple explanation.

It's here on the forum somewhere, I'll have a rummage about.

Another consideration is the fact that much of the liaison between the PJ and the UK was conducted, can I say, unofficially - Snr Amaral's words, not mine. In short, for speed by cutting out the bureaucracy, they didn't follow the customary international policing rogatory protocol. For personal bank details to be released to police requires a request through the law, without that financial details will not be released.

It's unclear whether or not the McCanns financial details were requested by rogatory or informally.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by sharonl 28.02.21 22:25

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Something has been lost in translation here, the likelihood of Gerry and/or Kate McCann not possessing credit cards is remote in the extreme.  The plastic card was the beginning of the great personal banking shift, from queuing at the bank to freedom of access to personal finances and borrowed money by the means of a credit card - and what an advance that was!  I could actually travel without a book of travelers cheques closely encased in my money belt and later deposited in a hotel safety box.

From Gonçalo Amaral's book - The Truth of the Lie

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, "they are in the process of gathering that information."

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns' financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

- That's quite simply not possible!

- They don't have credit cards? However, we know that they hold at least two: one which they used to pay for the flights, and a second which was used for the hire of the Renault Scenic.

- The English need to sort themselves out. We need the McCanns' financial statements from the start of their holiday in Portugal.

It's obvious we're going to have a hard time getting the required details: with such information, it would not be difficult to follow the McCanns' trail, to know about their expenses, their movements, and to draw conclusions from what came up. Meanwhile, Stuart makes another request. He says it would be a good idea to send two rogatory letters: one for the friends and another for the McCann couple. We don't understand this one.

I did some research into this back in the day, off the top of my head there was good reason why such information wasn't traceable, not because it was withheld by the UK authorities for some sinister reason but a simple explanation.

It's here on the forum somewhere, I'll have a rummage about.

Another consideration is the fact that much of the liaison between the PJ and the UK was conducted, can I say, unofficially - Snr Amaral's words, not mine.  In short, for speed by cutting out the bureaucracy, they didn't follow the customary international policing rogatory protocol.  For personal bank details to be released to police requires a request through the law, without that financial details will not be released.

It's unclear whether or not the McCanns financial details were requested by rogatory or informally.

The McCanns allegedly denied that they had credit cards.

Home Office refused information about Gerry's credit cards A request sent by PJ to British authorities, asking for details about Gerry McCann credit cards transactions for a period of six months, starting on April 1, six weeks before Madeleine's disappearance, was considered disproportionate by Frances Kennah, the Head of UK Central Authority, a Home Office department.


Why did the PJ want to look back 6 months?  What were they suspecting, or hoping to find?
sharonl
sharonl
Co-Admin
Co-Admin

Posts : 7687
Activity : 10275
Likes received : 1375
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Cammerigal and Silentscope like this post

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 01.03.21 0:19

It's hard to believe the McCanns would deny they had credit cards when it could be so easily traced.

I believe it's routine policing, to get a picture of a persons lifestyle - how they spend their money, what their interests are etc. Primarily I would imagine to determine if a person or a family member has financial problems, are in debt, that might lead to abnormal behaviour.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Silentscope 01.03.21 10:23

On the PJ background check, it says "There is no report or statement of bank credit cards listed in the research carried out. However I was alerted to the fact that if an individual maintains an account open with the same bank or credit card accounts for a long period of time, these details do not appear in this kind of search."


The Home Office rejected a request for Six months as it was ‘too intrusive’ and suggested the PJ re apply for a shorter time frame!


So what went on there then?
Silentscope
Silentscope

Posts : 761
Activity : 791
Likes received : 30
Join date : 2020-06-30

Cammerigal likes this post

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Silentscope 14.03.21 9:08

Request
 
Freedom of Information Request: Credit and debit cards of the parents of Madeleine Beth McCann
 
At page 188 in Chapter 19 of the recently published book "A Verdade da Mentira" ( “The Truth of the Lie) written by Dr Amaral, the former detective of the Portuguese Criminal Investigation Division who, until 2 October 2007, was the leader of the Portuguese inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann in Portugal, it is alleged that the British police assisting the inquiry affirmed that neither of the parents of Madeleine Beth McCann possessed any credit or debit cards despite there having been two credit card payments made by them one to pay for airfares; the other for the hiring of the Renault Scenic.
 
This is a request for information, namely for any record or document or extract thereof reporting or evidencing that neither of the parents of Madeleine Beth McCann possessed any credit card or debit card from any financial institution during the period in which any police officer from Leicester Constabulary assisted in the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann.
 
The request additionally seeks any record or document or extract thereof reporting or evidencing that the alleged affirmation was made by any police officer from the Leicestershire Constabulary to the Portuguese inquiry team, and, failing the existence of any written record, whether any such affirmation was made verbally by any police officer from the Leicestershire Constabulary to the Portuguese inquiry team and, if so, the name of that/those officer(s).
 
It seeks further, recognising the exemptions described in the Freedom of Information Act and the fact that the Portuguese inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann was suspended in that country on 21 July 2008, any record or document or extract thereof reporting or evidencing the date, time, vendor and value of any credit card or debit card transactions known by the Leicestershire Constabulary to have been made by either of the parents of Madeleine Beth McCann during the period between 4 May 2007 and 21 July 2008.
 
This request for information does not seek any further detailed information in respect of known credit or debit card transactions beyond the requested date, time, vendor and value thereof.
 
Response – No information Provided

________________________________________

Invalid source/link deleted. Mod
Silentscope
Silentscope

Posts : 761
Activity : 791
Likes received : 30
Join date : 2020-06-30

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 14.03.21 13:47

Gonçalo Amaral's book is not, nor intended to be, a detailed account of the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  It is his reflections of his time assigned to the case as Chief Co-ordinator.

I think this credit card question has been blown way out of proportion, although it does appear curious on the surface.

For someone to lie, or even mislead, a criminal investigative team about such a matter as possession of a credit and/or debit card, would be an act of madness.  It is something so easily checked.

A simple explanation I feel is more likely.

The PJ investigation wanted background information on the two prime suspects, Gerry and Kate McCann - routine policing..  The UK authorities responded to the rogatory requests accordingly..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Cammerigal 19.03.21 10:39

Gerry McCann used 2 credit cards to hire the Renault Scenic; 5435 xxxx xxxx 5661 and 5435 xxxx xxxx 5938. Both found on his rental dockets on the PJ files. 1 example provided here 

Nb I am intrigued by his 'unique' British passport, "verified" for use to hire a car? ID number 654646546 with repetitive digits and also issued on a national holiday, 1 Jan 2007. NB the '4-5-6' numbers are found on the keyboard number pad - middle section.
We should note the non standard British drivers licence, missing the 5 letter MCCAN prefix before the DoB and also use of an old address too. Very naughty Gerry.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Cammerigal
Cammerigal

Posts : 119
Activity : 194
Likes received : 71
Join date : 2017-06-18
Location : Australia

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by crusader 19.03.21 13:05

I was going to say, perhaps the credit card belonged to Michael Wright, but he wasn't in Praia da Luz on the 25th May, so I don't know why his name is on the car hire document.
He was in Portugal 5th to 11th May, then 14th to 18th May.
crusader
crusader

Posts : 899
Activity : 1079
Likes received : 170
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 19.03.21 15:20

As with the vapid attempt to find some mischief in the mildeage clocked up by the Renault Scenic, you need to know about how the rental company works, how diligent they are with administration and what information they require from potential clients.

I can see this veering towards another flight of fancy (excuse the pun) about Gerry McCann being in possession of two passports, which will be moved if continued - this thread is not for such discussion.

So, back on topic. As regards Michael Wright's name appearing on the early car rental contract, I think something was lost in translation - it can be the only sensible explanation. Michael Wright was toing and froing between the UK and Portugal throughout the summer months, helping with the campaign - apparently.

The car rental could have been paid by anyone with a credit card, McCann family and friends were never far away.

Sandy Cameron's witness statement..

On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle
. The rental contract documented in the PJ files, as you know, names Michael Wright as co-driver.

I can only say, unless folk think the PJ to be a bunch of sardine munching booze quaffing yokels, it can be safely concluded their investigation was professional and thorough - no stone unturned and all that!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by crusader 19.03.21 15:43

Whilst I could care less about credit cards and passports and who payed for what, It is a fact that..
27th May was the first time Gerry hired a car.
Sandy Cameron said he met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request
Why would Sandy Cameron tell the car hire agency he was called Michael Wright?
I think the PJ were very thorough, that is why they they asked the questions they did in Sandy Cameron and Michael Wright's rogatory statements.
crusader
crusader

Posts : 899
Activity : 1079
Likes received : 170
Join date : 2019-03-12

Cammerigal likes this post

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 20.03.21 0:32

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Whilst I could care less about credit cards and passports and who payed for what, It is a fact that..
27th May was the first time Gerry hired a car.
Sandy Cameron said he met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request
Why would Sandy Cameron tell the car hire agency he was called Michael Wright?
I think the PJ were very thorough, that is why they they asked the questions they did in Sandy Cameron and Michael Wright's rogatory statements.

I seriously doubt Sandy Cameron told the car rental agent that his name was Michael Wright.  Sandy Cameron said the car rental was in joint names, not he being named additional driver, to enable him to use the car - it amounts to the same thing admittedly but from the documented information it seems likely, at least to me, that Sandy Cameron was working on Gerry McCann's behalf - it's a matter of wording and without further evidence we can only evaluate the information available.

Under the circumstance, I seriously doubt Gerry McCann had any direct dealings with the rental company - this would also explain any discrepancies with credit card payment.  Ostensibly he was in no fit condition to worry about renting a car.  

The simplest explanation would be that Sandy Cameron named Michael Wright as an additional driver as Michael Wright was coming and going and 'helping with the campaign'.   Don't forget, the circumstances were not normal so you can't expect normality.

In my considered opinion, the PJ were specific about the questions asked during the rogatory interviews because the specialist trained dogs Eddie and Keela alerted to the scent of death/blood in the Renault Scenic, not because of any discrepancy as regards the car rental and co-drivers per se, more what they did and where they went and why there was the scent of death and blood therein.

Having said that, we will never know.  No point in speculating what might or might not have been without evidence to work on.

I doubt the rental company were 'in on it' so any anomaly can only be attributed to their administration and possibly human error - or even maybe translation and presentation of the PJ files in the public domain following release of the files.

There are many many curiosities contained within the translated version of the PJ files.

Back on topic, anyone could have paid for the car rental using a credit/debit card.  The hire firm don't care, just as long as it's paid for. Even then it's really not on topic is it. Chances of Gerry McCann and/or the missus not possessing a credit/debit card is remote in the extreme. As I said previously, why would anyone lie about something that can be so easily traced - or why lie about it full stop!

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

crusader likes this post

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by crusader 20.03.21 8:31

It wasn't the McCann's who claimed they didn't have credit cards, the PJ asked the UK police to do background checks and it was they who said the McCann's didn't show up on the system as having any. This was not unusual.

I can't see what relevance credit cards has on the disappearance of Madeleine anyway.
crusader
crusader

Posts : 899
Activity : 1079
Likes received : 170
Join date : 2019-03-12

Back to top Go down

When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards  Empty Re: When requested by the Portuguese police, the McCanns claimed that they did not have any credit cards

Post by Verdi 20.03.21 11:38

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It wasn't the McCann's who claimed they didn't have credit cards, the PJ asked the UK police to do background checks and it was they who said the McCann's didn't show up on the system as having any. This was not unusual.

I can't see what relevance credit cards has on the disappearance of Madeleine anyway.

100% correct!  The PJ wanted a background check on the McCanns (and their group of friends) financial affairs to ascertain if there were any irregularities.  It's routine policing, nothing sinistre.

I believe this incidental was spread abroad by some mischievous internaughty trying to imply Gerry McCann had been making online payments to the dark web - no need for elaboration!

The depths folk will sink in pursuit of evil.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
Verdi
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 21791
Activity : 28525
Likes received : 5716
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum