Let me help you Gerry: DAVID PAYNE may hold the key to the mystery

by Cheshire Cat 06.05.11 21:15

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Madeleine McCann case - David Payne may hold the key to the mystery TVMais

"The English authorities should explain what the complaint is, that they have against David Payne, and who presented it"

Gonçalo Amaral, author of the documentary TVI broadcast this week, told tvmais that Payne may hold the key to the mystery and the disappearance of Maddie

nâni Carvalho
18 April 2009
Translation by Nigel Moore

"If the Attorney General of the Republic watched the programme with care, he should have no alternative other than to reopen the case!" The emphatic claim comes from the coordinator of the Judiciary in the investigation of the Maddie case, until October 2007, in an exclusive interview with tvmais.

When Gonçalo Amaral was removed from the investigation he wrote the book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", a work that inspired the documentary that TVI devoted 50 minutes to on Monday, after the "National Telediary".

"Reopening the process would mean that the prosecutor would be acknowledging a mistake," Gonçalo Amaral told tvmais. "As you can see, we demonstrated in the documentary that, physically, abduction could not have happened. It also became clear that she died that same day, May 3, 2007," the inspector said shortly after the broadcast on TVI. "But above all, the role that David Payne played in the case needs to be understood. Certainly with the girl and with Kate McCann."

We ask the coordinator of the PJ to explain these words. "The British authorities have, since May 16, 2007, a complaint filed by Katherina G., a doctor and former friend of Payne and Gerry McCann. In that complaint, she explains the suspicions that she has had about David Payne since she spent a holiday with Payne and McCann in Mallorca. Gerry McCann is accused of inaction and complacency in the attitude of David Payne. "

Suspected paedophile

The claim of Gonçalo Amaral refers to the British couple, (doctors Katherina and Arul) who denounced David Payne. During that past holiday with the McCann's and Payne's in Mallorca, summer 2005, that British doctor retained an impression and never forgot what she saw one night when Gerry and David were talking about Maddie. David sucked on his finger, pushing it into and out of his mouth, while with the other hand made circles around his nipple. Days later, the doctor said, she returned to see Dave do the same gestures when speaking about his own daughter. Katherina decided to take special care with her own daughter and asked her husband to ensure that her daughter was never left alone with Payne when she was taking a bath. Kaherina said she had associated the gestures with someone who likes to see pornography. "I remember thinking if he would look at girls in a different way," she concluded. Twelve days after Maddie disappeared (16 May), Katherina and Arul went to the police to reveal the two conversations with Dave and Gerry, which first showed suspicious behaviour and suggested sex with minors. Katherina provided an eight-page statement. She described the holiday in Mallorca with McCann and Payne. Katherina's partner confirmed the gestures made by Dave during the conversation with Gerry, but said he did not realise that they were talking about Maddie. He also believed that the behaviour was of extremely bad taste. The statements were provided on May 16, 2007, but had no input into the process until January 2008 (Volume XIII). By then, the rogatory letters had already been sent.

David Payne, the same

Tvmais has already reported that David Payne is the same one that the PJ did not see testify in England. He is the only one whose statements for the famous rogatory letters, that the PJ sent to England, were remade because of a malfunction in the recorder...

David Payne was one of the friends dining with the McCanns on the night of the disappearance of the girl at the Ocean Club. He is the man that tvmais had already confirmed had been in apartment 5A of the resort (home of the McCanns) about 19:00 that afternoon of May 3, 2007, shortly before, therefore, the time that the girl was reported as missing. Up to the closure of this edition, we failed to confirm whether someone from the Attorney General's Office saw the documentary. Although the rest had already been informed by tvmais throughout the almost two years that have elapsed since the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a British child of 4-years-old, in the Algarve. We even showed the reported information of the declarations about Payne to the British police. It was the phrase Gonçalo Amaral on TVI's documentary: "It can be said with all certainty that Madeleine McCann was not abducted."

McCanns already control the fortune

The fund created just nine days after the disappearance of Maddie (a fund whose only goal was to raise funds to find the girl, accumulating millions of euros) has a new director: Gerald McCann, the very father of Madeleine McCann. Discreetly, they had already entered Peter Hubner, John McCann, Edward Smethurst, Doug Skehan, Jon Corner and other friends of the McCanns. This special status of the fund means that detailed accounts on how the money is spent do not need to be submitted. The McCanns house and other expenses are not reflected as being paid by the fund, although of the accounts presented, what is clear, is that barely 13% of the money was spent on investigations to "find the girl." The rest also went, but where is not known...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (With thanks to the McCann files)

by Angelique 07.05.11 16:17

Cheshire Cat

Thank you for posting this article. Although most of the info contained about DP I know already - it does remind me of a "scenario" I have continually returned to.

That DP was and is last person to have contact with Madeleine - how this occurred and why it occurred is known to the McCanns. That they were then involved with the moving and disposal of a dead Madeleine would explain all the cadaver scents in the apartment and on certain clothing and objects. Subsequently on the Renault Scenic for the final disposal and what I think the destruction of the body. They could not afford the risk of a body being found in any shape or form.

I think this scenario is a possibility simply because it is simple. The rest of the evening can be as jumbled as they like and people can come and go and not worry about leaving their traces in the flat so as to obscure an abductor.

I think the Fund was needed to pay off the "protection unit" who controlled the disposal and continue to protect the McCanns. I think this is connected with the statement from DP that "they have a pact" and Gerry will be the only person to make statements. They can't afford for any other T7 to make statements which could compromise their "protection". Gerry is the one who has contact with media releases only. I also think that the Agenda Gerry talked about is "the protection unit" - they have to make money for this purpose.

As I said above this is only a "scenario" I have considered.

by marconi 08.06.13 11:26

Very much possible that David Payne witnessed the accident and that is why he decided to bring his monitor to the Tapas that night and did not check on any child.

He didn't want to get involved in the case.

Amaral would not have said that if he would not have leads to that.

Because Oldfield, O'Brian said that they went to the building, Gerry did, but no Payne at all, except for at 6.40 pm. It could have been the time of the death, we have no idea.

And Tanner seeing the abductor, she was giving herself, O'Brian and Gerry an alibi. And it was not necessary to give one to Gerry. Jezz could witnesse that Gerry was there at that moment.

I have the tendence to believe that Tanner was giving herself and O'Brian an alibi.

by Seek truth 11.06.13 10:38

marconi wrote:Very much possible that David Payne witnessed the accident and that is why he decided to bring his monitor to the Tapas that night and did not check on any child.

He didn't want to get involved in the case.

Amaral would not have said that if he would not have leads to that.

Because Oldfield, O'Brian said that they went to the building, Gerry did, but no Payne at all, except for at 6.40 pm. It could have been the time of the death, we have no idea.

And Tanner seeing the abductor, she was giving herself, O'Brian and Gerry an alibi. And it was not necessary to give one to Gerry. Jezz could witnesse that Gerry was there at that moment.

I have the tendence to believe that Tanner was giving herself and O'Brian an alibi.

Does seem she was giving herself an alibi. Makes me wonder why O'Brian didn't say he saw the abductor instead, why bring her into it?

You should all be rewarded on here for working hard and solving this case for FREE!

Shame the press aren't interested!

by marconi 11.06.13 11:06

Seek Truth, the media are gagged by Carter Ruck. Probably they know more than we know. They are waiting for the moment that they can tell us.

It will not last long.

by Guest 11.06.13 12:44

This is interesting from Steelmagnolia:

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......And when questioned about this call by Leicestershire police, David Payne tried to deny it but when questioned further Payne was forced to admit he had made that call .

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I don't think he was asked why he made the phone call, unless I've missed it?

There's also a link to Yvonne Warren Martin Witness Statement

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by biggurllypants 31.08.13 3:59

They bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men, which was attended by: DAN, the tennis instructor; JULIAN, with whom he had played tennis several times; and CURTIS, with whom he had also played before.

During the afternoon of that day, the rest of the group, including the children, were at the beach, having returned at 18H30, the time at which he saw DAVID PAYNE next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, which he refused, as he had already been plying for about an hour and had to go back to his wife. Nevertheless, RUSSEL, DAVID and MATHEW stayed to play.

Why did they bathe the children then take them to the beach ?
Why did other parents bathe the children ?
Did kate catch David doing something to maddy and maddy got caught in an "accident" resulting in her death What was David doing for that 1/2 hour ? and Why did David payne want to encourage Gerry to stay longer at the tennis was this to give kate time to hide or clean up the scene ?
IMO David was the culprit and Kate and Gerry have hidden and covered up

by biggurllypants 31.08.13 4:13

David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t even actually enter the flat, he remained at the balcony door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40 p.m.

kATES VERSION IS ALSO DIFFERENT THAN THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WHNERE SHE TELLS SHE TOOK A BATH AND SO DID GERRY B4 GOING TO THE TAPAS BAR NO KMENTION OF GOING TO THE BEACH WITH DAVID THEIR STORY IS FULL OF INCONSIUSTENCIES AND LIES

wHY WERENT THE TAPAS 9 INTERVIEWED ON THE DAY BY THE pj AND HOW COME DAVID PAYNES RECORDED INTERVIEW THE RECORDER MISFUNCTIONED ONLY FOR HIS AND HAD TO BE RERECORDED DIGUSTING

by **tigger** 22.12.13 19:56

Fairly recently we learned that the Paynes returned to Portugal in July 2008 to change their testimony.

Iirc they retracted the alibi the'd given GM. Can't find it at the moment, the barrage of news as from last May obscured the odd useful snippet.

by marconi 22.12.13 21:25

tigger wrote:Fairly recently we learned that the Paynes returned to Portugal in July 2008 to change their testimony.

Iirc they retracted the alibi the'd given GM. Can't find it at the moment, the barrage of news as from last May obscured the odd useful snippet.

Tigger, where did you learn that? Try to remember.
We know that Fiona was at Kate's side in Portugal, during an Amaral process hearing and it was much later than 2008.

by chillyheat 22.12.13 21:30

marconi wrote:
tigger wrote:Fairly recently we learned that the Paynes returned to Portugal in July 2008 to change their testimony.

Iirc they retracted the alibi the'd given GM. Can't find it at the moment, the barrage of news as from last May obscured the odd useful snippet.

Tigger, where did you learn that? Try to remember.
We know that Fiona was at Kate's side in Portugal, during an Amaral process hearing and it was much later than 2008.

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by marconi 22.12.13 22:00

Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?

by chillyheat 23.12.13 0:01

marconi wrote:Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?

Disregard it then friends

Was just trying to help Tigger a little..

by marconi 23.12.13 0:05

ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?
Disregard it then
Was just trying to help Tigger a little..

Of course you helped a lot. thank you. mysterious trip to Portugal...

by chillyheat 23.12.13 0:14

marconi wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?
Disregard it then
Was just trying to help Tigger a little..

Of course you helped a lot. thank you. mysterious trip to Portugal...

Was there anything you wanted more specifically regarding this ?
I could have a little look around for you if you point me to what would be better thumbsup

I have not looked at this, so just searched for what was being discussed.

by marconi 23.12.13 0:38

ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?
Disregard it then
Was just trying to help Tigger a little..

Of course you helped a lot. thank you.     mysterious trip to Portugal...
Was there anything you wanted more specifically regarding this ?
I could have a little look around for you if you point me to what would be better
I have not looked at this, so just searched for what was being discussed.

thank you, you are a nice person! I will try to find something!
Maybe Amaral and his friends want to attrackt the attention to Gerry, who did not react against Payne in Mallorca.

by **tigger** 23.12.13 6:44

marconi wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
marconi wrote:Chilly Heat, I have difficulties to believe that article. 24 Horas was a tabloid, wasn't it?
How come that Amaral called the attention to Payne during the reconstruction on CMTV, if he and Fiona went to Portugal to make new statements?
Is Payne innocent??
If they said Gerry did not go to 5a, did they mean that it was an abduction by a stranger?
Disregard it then
Was just trying to help Tigger a little..

Of course you helped a lot. thank you.     mysterious trip to Portugal...
Was there anything you wanted more specifically regarding this ?
I could have a little look around for you if you point me to what would be better
I have not looked at this, so just searched for what was being discussed.

thank you, you are a nice person! I will try to find something!
Maybe Amaral and his friends want to attrackt the attention to Gerry, who did not react against Payne in Mallorca.

Perhaps because Dr.Amaral was no longer on the case at the time and busy writing his account. Using only material that was officially in the public domain.
It's unlikely these new statements were going to be public.
I do think this fits fairly well with that curious 'this is not the right forum' (not litt. quote) in his rogatory.

I know Fiona was in Lisbon with Kate but that doesn't invalidate any evidence given imo.

Just putting info together in one place and here's another snippet, iirc GM phoned Payne's father at some point and (again iirc) it was because he respected his opinion.

by **tigger** 23.12.13 11:30

There's more on this in the topic 'Why are the Paynes and Webster airbrushed out?

by ultimaThule 23.12.13 12:54

biggurllypants wrote:David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t even actually enter the flat, he remained at the balcony door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40 p.m.

kATES VERSION IS ALSO DIFFERENT THAN THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WHNERE SHE TELLS SHE TOOK A BATH AND SO DID GERRY B4 GOING TO THE TAPAS BAR NO KMENTION OF GOING TO THE BEACH WITH DAVID THEIR STORY IS FULL OF INCONSIUSTENCIES AND LIES

wHY WERENT THE TAPAS 9 INTERVIEWED ON THE DAY BY THE pj AND HOW COME DAVID PAYNES RECORDED INTERVIEW THE RECORDER MISFUNCTIONED ONLY FOR HIS AND HAD TO BE RERECORDED DIGUSTING

On a point of information, the first rogatory statement given by Russell O'Brien was not transcribed because the recording equipment malfunctioned.

by Liz Eagles 23.12.13 12:58

ultimaThule wrote:
biggurllypants wrote:David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t even actually enter the flat, he remained at the balcony door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40 p.m.

kATES VERSION IS ALSO DIFFERENT THAN THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WHNERE SHE TELLS SHE TOOK A BATH AND SO DID GERRY B4 GOING TO THE TAPAS BAR NO KMENTION OF GOING TO THE BEACH WITH DAVID THEIR STORY IS FULL OF INCONSIUSTENCIES AND LIES

wHY WERENT THE TAPAS 9 INTERVIEWED ON THE DAY BY THE pj AND HOW COME DAVID PAYNES RECORDED INTERVIEW THE RECORDER MISFUNCTIONED ONLY FOR HIS AND HAD TO BE RERECORDED DIGUSTING
On a point of information, the first rogatory statement given by Russell O'Brien was not transcribed because the recording equipment malfunctioned.

That in itself is odd ultimaThule. I wonder if it had malfunctioned before?

by Guest 23.12.13 13:43

aquila wrote:
That in itself is odd ultimaThule. I wonder if it had malfunctioned before?

Most electrical equipment "malfunctions" if you fail to switch it on. I wonder if that's what happened in this instance?

by Liz Eagles 23.12.13 13:51

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
aquila wrote:
That in itself is odd ultimaThule. I wonder if it had malfunctioned before?

Most electrical equipment "malfunctions" if you fail to switch it on. I wonder if that's what happened in this instance?

Clay, you've read the entire forum and all the files, could you find the link where it states there was a malfunction on the police recording equipment please? I realise it wasn't you who posted the information but I thought you'd be the best person to ask as you've recently read everything.

by Guest 23.12.13 14:09

aquila wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
aquila wrote:
That in itself is odd ultimaThule. I wonder if it had malfunctioned before?

Most electrical equipment "malfunctions" if you fail to switch it on. I wonder if that's what happened in this instance?
Clay, you've read the entire forum and all the files, could you find the link where it states there was a malfunction on the police recording equipment please? I realise it wasn't you who posted the information but I thought you'd be the best person to ask as you've recently read everything.

Argghh, now you're asking. It's definitely correct though. I'm going to play football at some point but if I can find it I will.

Edit: It seems to originate with the TVMais transcript that accompanied this thread. You'd have to make your own mind up about the provenance of that.

David Payne, the same

Tvmais has already reported that David Payne is the same one that the PJ did not see testify in England. He is the only one whose statements for the famous rogatory letters, that the PJ sent to England, were remade because of a malfunction in the recorder...

by **PeterMac** 23.12.13 14:16

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Russell James O'Brien & The Lost DVD Interview Duarte Levy Wordpress

Posted by Duarte Levy
January 27, 2009 • 12:43 pm

Russell James O'Brien was questioned on the 8th of April from 9.55 a.m. until 8.18 p.m., divided into 5 distinct time periods (9.55 – 11.30 a.m., 12.01 – 12.50 a.m., 2.06 – 3.55 p.m., 5.15 – 6.56 p.m., and 7.37 – 8.18 p.m.). Officially, all the video images of this day were rendered useless because the video camera didn't work… which means that Enderby police wants us to believe that, even during pauses, they never verified if the interrogation was being recorded correctly. This was the official version, the one that was offered to the Portuguese authorities. Nevertheless, the truth of facts is different, and Russell O'Brien was questioned again on the 10th of April; this time the camera worked.

by Guest 23.12.13 14:19

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Russell James O'Brien & The Lost DVD Interview Duarte Levy Wordpress

Posted by Duarte Levy
January 27, 2009 • 12:43 pm

Russell James O'Brien was questioned on the 8th of April from 9.55 a.m. until 8.18 p.m., divided into 5 distinct time periods (9.55 – 11.30 a.m., 12.01 – 12.50 a.m., 2.06 – 3.55 p.m., 5.15 – 6.56 p.m., and 7.37 – 8.18 p.m.). Officially, all the video images of this day were rendered useless because the video camera didn't work… which means that Enderby police wants us to believe that, even during pauses, they never verified if the interrogation was being recorded correctly. This was the official version, the one that was offered to the Portuguese authorities. Nevertheless, the truth of facts is different, and Russell O'Brien was questioned again on the 10th of April; this time the camera worked.

So Payne is an error? It was O'Brien who got two bites of it?

by Liz Eagles 23.12.13 15:21

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Russell James O'Brien & The Lost DVD Interview Duarte Levy Wordpress

Posted by Duarte Levy
January 27, 2009 • 12:43 pm

Russell James O'Brien was questioned on the 8th of April from 9.55 a.m. until 8.18 p.m., divided into 5 distinct time periods (9.55 – 11.30 a.m., 12.01 – 12.50 a.m., 2.06 – 3.55 p.m., 5.15 – 6.56 p.m., and 7.37 – 8.18 p.m.). Officially, all the video images of this day were rendered useless because the video camera didn't work… which means that Enderby police wants us to believe that, even during pauses, they never verified if the interrogation was being recorded correctly. This was the official version, the one that was offered to the Portuguese authorities. Nevertheless, the truth of facts is different, and Russell O'Brien was questioned again on the 10th of April; this time the camera worked.

So Payne is an error? It was O'Brien who got two bites of it?

Oh Clay my little flower, you know that isn't the point. I hope you're off to play indoor football as the weather in UK isn't good.

by suep 23.12.13 20:34

Clay, as I'm new around here it was only around 2 weeks ago I read all those statements and I'm sure Petermac is right about it being Russell not David Payne ...thing is I don't recall reading a rogatory interview with David Payne at all. Did he do one ? I'll have to revisit them and check.
Hope you enjoyed your footie by the way!

by **tigger** 24.12.13 5:04

suep wrote:Clay, as I'm new around here it was only around 2 weeks ago I read all those statements and I'm sure Petermac is right about it being Russell not David Payne ...thing is I don't recall reading a rogatory interview with David Payne at all. Did he do one ? I'll have to revisit them and check.
Hope you enjoyed your footie by the way!

It's worth reading the Payne rogatory, you'll find it on McCannfiles.com. It's long enough to keep you you amused over the holidays. i'd love to see your take on it as new members often have new insights.
Don't, however use the topic here 'Paynes rogatories light' which were posted by a troll imo (since banned) and which leave out essential points. Unfortunately it's one of their methods.

I believe the delay in lifting their arguido status was due to negotiations with the Portuguese on their behalf by the Home Office in order to prevent the files from being published.

It seems that changing Portuguese law wasn't in the power of the not so honourable Jaqui Smith.
TM did what they could to lessen the blow, selecting a mere two thousand or so sightings to stress the deficiencies of the PJ.

by OOPSIDAISY 24.12.13 5:23

LOl Funny hearing these 'new' theories and everyone trying to help...There is so much on this forum and other forums (some now depleted) but still googleable that I think sometimes new people become confused.....I think this theory is going nowhere unless a new poster has something 'new' to add to the equation...? spin

by **tigger** 24.12.13 5:43

OOPSIDAISY wrote:LOl Funny hearing these 'new' theories and everyone trying to help...There is so much on this forum and other forums (some now depleted) but still googleable that I think sometimes new people become confused.....I think this theory is going nowhere unless a new poster has something 'new' to add to the equation...?

What theory are you talking about? We're collecting facts, hate to disappoint you but going over the lengthy rogs has been most useful.

Imo everybody isn't trying to help, they are helping. I really can't see why you find that amusing.