Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
Page 3 of 3 • Share
Page 3 of 3 • 
1, 2, 3
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by MrsC 20.03.17 19:15
sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices
English law
Does not require a doctor to confirm a death has occurred
Does not require a doctor to view the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate .
No obligation on the doctor even to see , let alone examine the body .
So Kate as a part time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat over even one body !
If a doctor does check for signs of life , it's pulse and eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer to fill out the forms !
You can read more at the BMA link .
So let's forget the attending bodies in a t shirt , Capri pants with Cuddlecat in tow please .
Could it be anything to do with this:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/10/doctors-cremation-ash-cash
Could Mrs Mc have been earning a bit on the side? Article does not state whether the Doctor has to examine the body before signing the papers.
____________________
Sooner or later in life, we will all take our own turn being in the position we once had someone else in.
*
The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out...
Thomas Babington Macaulay
MrsC- Posts : 304
Activity : 413
Likes received : 97
Join date : 2011-05-12
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by tinkier 20.03.17 19:35
sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices
English law
Does not require a doctor to confirm a death has occurred
Does not require a doctor to view the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate .
No obligation on the doctor even to see , let alone examine the body .
So Kate as a part time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat over even one body !
If a doctor does check for signs of life , it's pulse and eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer to fill out the forms !
You can read more at the BMA link .
So let's forget the attending bodies in a t shirt , Capri pants with Cuddlecat in tow please .
Legal requirements
The law requires a doctor to notify the cause of death of any patient whom he or she has attended during that patient’s last illness to the Registrar of Births and Deaths. The doctor is required to notify the cause of death as a certificate, on a form prescribed, stating to the best of his or her knowledge and belief, the cause of death.It should be noted that the strict interpretation of the law is that the doctor shall notify the cause of death, not the fact.
Thus, a doctor does not certify that death has occurred, only what in his or her opinion was the cause, assuming that death has taken place.
Arising out of this interpretation there is no obligation on the doctor even to see, let alone examine the body before issuing the certificate. The Broderick report recommended that a doctor should be required to inspect the body of a deceased person before issuing the certificate but this recommendation has never been implemented. Thus, there is no requirement in English law for a general practitioner or any other registered medical practitioner to see or examine the body of a person who is said to be dead.
General practitioners as a body would not, and as individuals should not, seek to use this quirk of English law to avoid attending upon an apparently deceased patient for whom the GP is responsible.
tinkier- Posts : 239
Activity : 411
Likes received : 160
Join date : 2015-06-08
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Nina 20.03.17 19:49
Actually if a family member died at home, whether suddenly or as the result of a long illness or even an accident or suicide, the last person I would send for would be their GP.tinkier wrote:sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices
English law
Does not require a doctor to confirm a death has occurred
Does not require a doctor to view the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate .
No obligation on the doctor even to see , let alone examine the body .
So Kate as a part time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat over even one body !
If a doctor does check for signs of life , it's pulse and eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer to fill out the forms !
You can read more at the BMA link .
So let's forget the attending bodies in a t shirt , Capri pants with Cuddlecat in tow please .Legal requirements
The law requires a doctor to notify the cause of death of any patient whom he or she has attended during that patient’s last illness to the Registrar of Births and Deaths. The doctor is required to notify the cause of death as a certificate, on a form prescribed, stating to the best of his or her knowledge and belief, the cause of death.
It should be noted that the strict interpretation of the law is that the doctor shall notify the cause of death, not the fact.
Thus, a doctor does not certify that death has occurred, only what in his or her opinion was the cause, assuming that death has taken place.Arising out of this interpretation there is no obligation on the doctor even to see, let alone examine the body before issuing the certificate. The Broderick report recommended that a doctor should be required to inspect the body of a deceased person before issuing the certificate but this recommendation has never been implemented. Thus, there is no requirement in English law for a general practitioner or any other registered medical practitioner to see or examine the body of a person who is said to be dead.
General practitioners as a body would not, and as individuals should not, seek to use this quirk of English law to avoid attending upon an apparently deceased patient for whom the GP is responsible.
____________________
Not one more cent from me.
Nina- Forum support
- Posts : 3344
Activity : 3705
Likes received : 349
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 81
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Guest 20.03.17 20:49
I don't think you will find Kate McCann ever made such a claim, it was the proverbial source that took the credit. Here's an example..nglfi wrote:I hesitate to get involved in this thread, but for me the massive problem with 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I came away on holiday and that's how the cadaver odour got there'
The "smell of death" was not only allegedly detected on Mrs McCann's clothes but in the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz and the Renault Scenic car hired 25 days after Madeleine disappeared, Portuguese sources claimed. A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html
Outside of positive evidence of the spoken word which can only be found by referencing video footage of the McCanns media and studio sofa appearances, I doubt if you will find one single claim made over the past ten years, which has actually come from the McCann mouth. They are not clever in my opinion but they are down right cunning - which is worse.
ETA: Oh and look at the Telegraph article highlight..
'Branson gives 100,000k to McCann legal fund.'
Guest- Guest
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by JohnyT 20.03.17 21:06
...so surely the next question to her would be...." have you names of these deceased and when did they occur......" ??nglfi wrote:I hesitate to get involved in this thread, but for me the massive problem with 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I came away on holiday and that's how the cadaver odour got there' is the idea that Kate McCann would want to go on holiday in cadavery work clothes. Who goes on holiday in their work clothes?
Even though she wouldn't wear a uniform as a GP I've no doubt she and most have a specific set of clothes they wear to work.
And in what context does a GP come into contact with cadavers?
JohnyT
JohnyT- Posts : 354
Activity : 507
Likes received : 139
Join date : 2014-06-01
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by JohnyT 20.03.17 21:09
Ah I see.....posted before I saw your post Verdi
JohnyT
JohnyT
JohnyT- Posts : 354
Activity : 507
Likes received : 139
Join date : 2014-06-01
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by tinkier 20.03.17 21:33
@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have known an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
tinkier- Posts : 239
Activity : 411
Likes received : 160
Join date : 2015-06-08
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Nina 20.03.17 21:58
Yes I know all that I said it would be the last person I would send for. In the case of an accident or suicide my first call would be 999 and tell them the facts as I saw them.tinkier wrote:@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have know an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
If the person had been ill for some time then would have been under the GP anyway so here would call the undertaker as already planned and then they would make the arrangements.
A death at home is going to be either expected or an accident or suicide or a criminal act. Non of these would have me telephoning the surgery.
____________________
Not one more cent from me.
Nina- Forum support
- Posts : 3344
Activity : 3705
Likes received : 349
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 81
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by tinkier 20.03.17 22:35
As I said, that's the protocol for my area for an expected death at home. Many GP's prefer to attend their patients in the home environment rather than having to attend the undertakers premises. I fully accept other areas will do things slightly different. Anyway, this may be going way off topic now..apologies.Nina wrote:Yes I know all that I said it would be the last person I would send for. In the case of an accident or suicide my first call would be 999 and tell them the facts as I saw them.tinkier wrote:@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have know an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
If the person had been ill for some time then would have been under the GP anyway so here would call the undertaker as already planned and then they would make the arrangements.
A death at home is going to be either expected or an accident or suicide or a criminal act. Non of these would have me telephoning the surgery.
tinkier- Posts : 239
Activity : 411
Likes received : 160
Join date : 2015-06-08
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by MRNOODLES 20.03.17 23:48
Dogs/DNA/Blood and the like, are always the subjects somebody pops up with a scatter-gun and attempts to cause loads of confusion and disruption.
MRNOODLES- Posts : 751
Activity : 1059
Likes received : 298
Join date : 2013-07-04
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by nglfi 21.03.17 7:59
Sorry I should have been clearer in my comment. I understand Kate didn't day exactly those words, as you say Verdi very little is directly attributable to them. However I tend to think that anything that comes out in the media is endorsed and approved by them, as it's the image they wish to put out. It would be interesting to see what her actual response to police was when she was questioned about the cadaver odour. If she did offer any defence about certifying dead bodies, I still find it quite unlikely that as a part time GP she attended more than one in the period directly before coming to Portugal, and that she would wear the same clothes she was wearing at work.
And if she did mention anything about this to the PJ, whether they were allowed to verify this or was it another stumbling block that the British refused to confirm or deny.
And if she did mention anything about this to the PJ, whether they were allowed to verify this or was it another stumbling block that the British refused to confirm or deny.
nglfi- Posts : 568
Activity : 866
Likes received : 274
Join date : 2014-01-09
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by plebgate 21.03.17 8:47
Mr and Mrs are paying their spokesperson, lawyers etc.
He who pays the piper and all that.
I know if I was paying people to speak on my behalf then I would correct anything I didn't agree with.
Even if they don't read the paper or watch tv surely they would have people contact them and tell them what is being said - as they do apparently with online information?
He who pays the piper and all that.
I know if I was paying people to speak on my behalf then I would correct anything I didn't agree with.
Even if they don't read the paper or watch tv surely they would have people contact them and tell them what is being said - as they do apparently with online information?
____________________
Judge Judy to shifty witnesses - LOOK AT ME - Um is not an answer.
If I forget to add it to a post everything is In My Opinion and I don't know anything for sure.
plebgate- Posts : 6729
Activity : 8938
Likes received : 2123
Join date : 2013-02-01
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by JRP 21.03.17 9:06
However, in this post yesterday, their Facebook admin said that she makes statements on their behalf without gaining approval, because they trust her.
Sorry if this is
Sorry if this is
JRP- Posts : 601
Activity : 1176
Likes received : 573
Join date : 2016-03-07
Age : 67
Location : UK
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Mirage 21.03.17 9:08
Just like Tony Blair letting Alistair Campbell brief the press on the 45 minute weapons of mass destruction baloney and not bothering to correct it.plebgate wrote:Mr and Mrs are paying their spokesperson, lawyers etc.
He who pays the piper and all that.
I know if I was paying people to speak on my behalf then I would correct anything I didn't agree with.
Even if they don't read the paper or watch tv surely they would have people contact them and tell them what is being said - as they do apparently with online information?
Mirage- Posts : 1905
Activity : 2711
Likes received : 764
Join date : 2013-02-01
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by plebgate 21.03.17 9:10
Thanks JRP but that seems to be posts made to the site, not quotes made by paid personnel to the media which is sometimes reported around the world and if I did not agree with anything my paid personnel said or did I would be quick to rectify it.
____________________
Judge Judy to shifty witnesses - LOOK AT ME - Um is not an answer.
If I forget to add it to a post everything is In My Opinion and I don't know anything for sure.
plebgate- Posts : 6729
Activity : 8938
Likes received : 2123
Join date : 2013-02-01
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Rogue-a-Tory 21.03.17 9:31
The evidence surrounding blood being in the hire car is overwhelming, as is that of the McCs hiring that car. Whether it belonged to Madeleine is open for a reasoned debate.
Questioning the former two facts is obviously a distraction and thanks to all those that posted the main items of evidence.
So what's next, looking at whether the shutters were jemmied, Murat is Tannerman or Madeleine actually went on the holiday.
Questioning the former two facts is obviously a distraction and thanks to all those that posted the main items of evidence.
So what's next, looking at whether the shutters were jemmied, Murat is Tannerman or Madeleine actually went on the holiday.
Rogue-a-Tory- Posts : 647
Activity : 1115
Likes received : 454
Join date : 2014-09-10
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Guest 21.03.17 12:58
The only reference to this issue on record that I'm aware of, is the infamous questioning as arguido [snipped] ..nglfi wrote: It would be interesting to see what her actual response to police was when she was questioned about the cadaver odour. If she did offer any defence about certifying dead bodies, I still find it quite unlikely that as a part time GP she attended more than one in the period directly before coming to Portugal, and that she would wear the same clothes she was wearing at work.
Kate Marie Healy's statement 7th September 2007
--- In this 'auto' [official document recording an official action] there were shown several films of canine inspections, forensic in character, where can be seen the marking by them of indications of human cadaver smell and blood traces also human, and solely human, as well as the comments of the expert responsible for that inspection activity.
--- The viewing ended and after signs of cadaver odour in her bedroom next to the cupboard and behind the sofa against the window of the living room, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
--- Also signalled, now by the dog of the detection of human blood behind the sofa mentioned above, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
--- Signalled the cadaver odour in the car that they rented about one month after the disappearance, registration 59-DA-27, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
--- Signalled the presence of human blood in the trunk of the same vehicle, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
I don't doubt for a moment the McCanns were questioned about the dog alerts informally (not recorded) but how specific the questioning might have been, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess.
Nor will I try to speculate on what she means by 'can not explain anything more than that already mentioned', there is nothing to suggest she was specifically asked about items of clothing that were singled out by the dogs, more perhaps a generalization of the dog alerts - the Renault Scenic and apartment 5a being the focal area of interest to the PJ.
Alas not to Operation Grange - but that's another kettle of sea bass!
Guest- Guest
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Guest 06.04.17 0:21
RUSSELL O'BRIEN
To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.
In the context of the investigation, we have collected information concerning a vehicle used by RUSSELL O'BRIEN, friend and member of the group who spent their holiday with the McCann family in the Algarve . At the time of the request for vehicles considered important to the procedures that follow, we were not aware of the identification details of this vehicle. Meantime, our investigation has led us to establish that it may be a vehicle of the "Opel" range, a "Corsa" model, registration....AG - 62. At the present time, we do not have a mandate to search for and seize the vehicle to allow us to add the vehicle to the planned inspections. As a consequence, we request such a legal mandate in order to be able to realize the planned inspections.
To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.
In the context of the investigation, we have collected information concerning a vehicle used by RUSSELL O'BRIEN, friend and member of the group who spent their holiday with the McCann family in the Algarve . At the time of the request for vehicles considered important to the procedures that follow, we were not aware of the identification details of this vehicle. Meantime, our investigation has led us to establish that it may be a vehicle of the "Opel" range, a "Corsa" model, registration....AG - 62. At the present time, we do not have a mandate to search for and seize the vehicle to allow us to add the vehicle to the planned inspections. As a consequence, we request such a legal mandate in order to be able to realize the planned inspections.
Guest- Guest
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Captain_Pugwash 06.04.17 11:37
At the end of the day, a visitor to the country was reported missing, the Police in that country investigated the disappearance without prejudice, the investigation was extended forensically and findings were made. The investigation was shelved after the people under suspicion legged it from the country, out of jurisdiction so to speak.
The media both national and international were launched into a frenzy by the people under suspicion from the outset. Theories were grossly expanded upon, , opinion polls were initiated to protect the parents, legal teams were paid a fortune to protect the people under suspicion, pacts of silence were entered into, then the chief suspects were turned into media darlings who had undergone a traumatic experience because of their treatment at the hands of this foreign Police force.
The Police force undertaking the investigation were placed under top level political pressure to toe the party line regardless so they recorded their findings and dropped the enquiry or investigation. This is not the first time a police force has done this in international situations, the Gardai in Dundalk did a general clear out of evidence which included items that may have convicted the people responsible for the bombings in Warrenpoint that murdered 18 soldiers 1979. Police forces are under no obligation to retain evidence as has been criticised by many on this site but is actually a fact.
A little girl is missing the world will not believe she is dead because the British media reading public are totally stupid. The British government bodies are stupid. The British Police force operation grange staff are all stupid. The people who teach the children of the surviving tapas gang are stupid. A bit critically harsh but I do not want to speculate on what happened and when, just focus on the absolute facts that cannot be denied: A little girl is dead, The McCanns are rubbish parents in fact non parents, Doctors are liars that will do anything to protect their own kind, Police forces worldwide are servants of their public but that includes their government.
I wonder what someone like Donald Trump would say given the chance. Shall we petition him?
The media both national and international were launched into a frenzy by the people under suspicion from the outset. Theories were grossly expanded upon, , opinion polls were initiated to protect the parents, legal teams were paid a fortune to protect the people under suspicion, pacts of silence were entered into, then the chief suspects were turned into media darlings who had undergone a traumatic experience because of their treatment at the hands of this foreign Police force.
The Police force undertaking the investigation were placed under top level political pressure to toe the party line regardless so they recorded their findings and dropped the enquiry or investigation. This is not the first time a police force has done this in international situations, the Gardai in Dundalk did a general clear out of evidence which included items that may have convicted the people responsible for the bombings in Warrenpoint that murdered 18 soldiers 1979. Police forces are under no obligation to retain evidence as has been criticised by many on this site but is actually a fact.
A little girl is missing the world will not believe she is dead because the British media reading public are totally stupid. The British government bodies are stupid. The British Police force operation grange staff are all stupid. The people who teach the children of the surviving tapas gang are stupid. A bit critically harsh but I do not want to speculate on what happened and when, just focus on the absolute facts that cannot be denied: A little girl is dead, The McCanns are rubbish parents in fact non parents, Doctors are liars that will do anything to protect their own kind, Police forces worldwide are servants of their public but that includes their government.
I wonder what someone like Donald Trump would say given the chance. Shall we petition him?
Captain_Pugwash- Posts : 92
Activity : 121
Likes received : 25
Join date : 2017-03-23
Re;Blood in the Hire car
by willowthewisp 06.04.17 13:38
Hi captainpugwash,I can understand your anguish with regard to Madeleine McCann case and the amount of complicity given to certain people,just take a couple of minutes to compose any anger or rants,that there are also Two siblings of Madeleine that must be considered aswell?
willowthewisp- Posts : 3392
Activity : 4912
Likes received : 1160
Join date : 2015-05-07
Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car
by Captain_Pugwash 06.04.17 16:56
I hear what you say and I am sorry to rant in an angry manner. What bothers me is that the 2 siblings are being exposed to this year in year out by their parents. What is their level of consideration?willowthewisp wrote:Hi captainpugwash,I can understand your anguish with regard to Madeleine McCann case and the amount of complicity given to certain people,just take a couple of minutes to compose any anger or rants,that there are also Two siblings of Madeleine that must be considered aswell?
Captain_Pugwash- Posts : 92
Activity : 121
Likes received : 25
Join date : 2017-03-23
Re;Blood in the Hire car
by willowthewisp 06.04.17 17:30
Hi Captainpugwash,there in lies your answer,the"Children"came second to their needs,which is still the case today,when you use your child as to "Hearsay"as to what was said on a live Radio broadcast about a Former Detective in a civil action,but has never been heard in a Court of Law,I do not suppose Leveson Counts as a Court of Law!?Captain_Pugwash wrote:I hear what you say and I am sorry to rant in an angry manner. What bothers me is that the 2 siblings are being exposed to this year in year out by their parents. What is their level of consideration?willowthewisp wrote:Hi captainpugwash,I can understand your anguish with regard to Madeleine McCann case and the amount of complicity given to certain people,just take a couple of minutes to compose any anger or rants,that there are also Two siblings of Madeleine that must be considered aswell?
willowthewisp- Posts : 3392
Activity : 4912
Likes received : 1160
Join date : 2015-05-07
Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics» Blood found in McCanns' hire car 'DID come from Madeleine'
» Two top UK Dogs who alerted to blood and cadaver odour in McCanns’ apartment and hire car had never been wrong in 200 previous outings.
» 'SUMMONS' magazine found in the boot of the McCann's hire car
» Statement analyst, expert in lying and deception, Mark McClish, says Sandy Cameron's statement about 'blood' and 'a foul smell in the boot of the Scenic' ' NEEDS FURTHER EXAMINATION'
» Dr Vernon Coleman: Former GP and Police Surgeon
» Two top UK Dogs who alerted to blood and cadaver odour in McCanns’ apartment and hire car had never been wrong in 200 previous outings.
» 'SUMMONS' magazine found in the boot of the McCann's hire car
» Statement analyst, expert in lying and deception, Mark McClish, says Sandy Cameron's statement about 'blood' and 'a foul smell in the boot of the Scenic' ' NEEDS FURTHER EXAMINATION'
» Dr Vernon Coleman: Former GP and Police Surgeon
Page 3 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
