Re: Steve Marsden's WBM screenshot: The CEOP Home page for April 30, 2007 also refers to Missing Madeleine.

by Guest 17.07.15 18:28

Well, I almost did last night because he logged in. Then whoosh! I hope he wasn't frightened by us.

by **Jill Havern** 17.07.15 18:30

Ladyinred wrote:Well, I almost did last night because he logged in. Then whoosh! I hope he wasn't frightened by us.

It was probably a glitch.

by Guest 18.07.15 23:57

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Well, I almost did last night because he logged in. Then whoosh! I hope he wasn't frightened by us.
It was probably a glitch.

It's still very quiet around here !?! smilie

by **PeterMac** 19.07.15 8:01

for those who understand this . . .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />" />" />" />" />" />" />

Hope this is of some use to someone

by Guest 19.07.15 8:15

Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.

by Guest 19.07.15 16:52

BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.

No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.

by Guest 19.07.15 18:47

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.

Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.

by Guest 19.07.15 18:48

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.

Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.

by Guest 19.07.15 19:01

BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.
Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.

As Manuel would say 'I know nothing!'.
We can but guess because IA have decided that they don't need to explain anything other than to law enforcement agencies. What can be reasonably deduced is that there was crawl/capture at 20070430115803 and something was captured, there's a chance it caught mcann. html

by Guest 19.07.15 20:49

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.
Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.
As Manuel would say 'I know nothing!'.
We can but guess because IA have decided that they don't need to explain anything other than to law enforcement agencies. What can be reasonably deduced is that there was crawl/capture at 20070430115803 and something was captured, there's a chance it caught mcann. html

Right... with an embedded link to a page that only existed after August 2007.

Whatever.

Keep flogging that dead horse.

by whatsupdoc 19.07.15 21:54

Confusion is caused when truth is mixed with fiction.We have a mccann.html file dated April 2007 with content from later months.

I think the WBM capture on 30/04/07 of CEOP was in two parts. Firstly, the normal capture of the asp index file and other ceop webpages and secondly the capture of the ceop/mccann.html webpage which was an incomplete, full of blanks, not ready for publication set of pages. The source code that I have seen does indicate that WBM made several captures of a mccann.html file and associated pages starting with the first on 30/04/07.

If viewed back in April 2007 it would have had quite a lot missing but now in 2015, the ceop/mccann.html file has had several captures.

I think that the WBM software modified the April file on successive captures to what we saw in June 2015, filling in the blanks...I'm assuming an SQL database at WBM which can be modified.

by Wahrheit 20.07.15 14:24

BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.
Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.
As Manuel would say 'I know nothing!'.
We can but guess because IA have decided that they don't need to explain anything other than to law enforcement agencies. What can be reasonably deduced is that there was crawl/capture at 20070430115803 and something was captured, there's a chance it caught mcann. html
Right... with an embedded link to a page that only existed after August 2007.

Whatever.

Keep flogging that dead horse.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Pardon me if I am missing something - I haven't had a chance to catch up properly with this thread.

If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

I had presumed that the page mccann.html was created and published some time in early-mid May - i.e. close to the event - and so must either:

(1) have been republished subsequent to August 2007 to include the link to the 'training page' and the WBM 'broke' by adding an incorrect date stamp of 30th April to this mccann.html page which was actually (re)published post August, or

(2) The wayback machine 'broke' and inserted the link into a page which had been previously published.

I'm guessing you are excluding option (2) as a possibility, so my question is this? Are there examples of mccann.html crawled prior to Aug 2007 without the training link?

I suppose this is a long way of saying did the mccann.html page (or a version of it) pre-date August 2007?

by Guest 20.07.15 14:43

If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.

by Wahrheit 20.07.15 16:35

BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.

Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.

by Guest 20.07.15 16:42

Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.

Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.

by Wahrheit 20.07.15 16:53

BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.

So if, say a May version of the file existed and it didn't have the embedded link, that would strongly suggest that the 30th April version is from a later (post Aug 2007) crawl?

by Guest 20.07.15 19:28

BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.

I've not had much time to look at this, how do you know the training url is from August?

by Guest 20.07.15 19:53

Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..

by **Jill Havern** 20.07.15 20:08

Verdi wrote:Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..

by Guest 21.07.15 7:38

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.
I've not had much time to look at this, how do you know the training url is from August?

You need to read the post where I showed it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 21.07.15 7:40

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Verdi wrote:Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..

He knows the score.

He already knew the most likely score right at the beginning when he said "it's most probably a mistake" on his Facebook page.

He was right.

Lots of other people were active in this thread early on also know the score now.

by whodunit 21.07.15 14:11

BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Thank you Peter.

That is the captured HTML for the web page in question.

It contains a link to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the training.asp page. You can check it yourselves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Proof the WBM is well and truly broken.
No point in checking anything today that has any connection to 20070430115803 as it's all been 'sorted'. How does this fit with Chris Butler's claim that what was captured was URLs actually from 31/07 for mccann. html and 07/10 for the Ceop home page?

What we do have proof of is the Wayback Machine has been well and truly manipulated.
Whatever you like HKP... but you know.

People were telling you weeks ago.
As Manuel would say 'I know nothing!'.
We can but guess because IA have decided that they don't need to explain anything other than to law enforcement agencies. What can be reasonably deduced is that there was crawl/capture at 20070430115803 and something was captured, there's a chance it caught mcann. html
Right... with an embedded link to a page that only existed after August 2007.

Whatever.

Keep flogging that dead horse.

Correction: The page contained a link to a page that was not CAPTURED BY WBM until August. This does not mean the page did not exist in April because WBM does not capture every single page every single month of the year.

This is quite different from saying a page that was NEVER CAPTURED [CEOP homepage late October] was misfiled backwards to April.

"He already knew the most likely score right at the beginning when he said "it's most probably a mistake" on his Facebook page."

Yes you kept CLAIMING Steve said this but and people kept asking you to prove it but you never did.

by cloak'ndagger 21.07.15 16:06

BlueBag wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Verdi wrote:Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..
He knows the score.

He already knew the most likely score right at the beginning when he said "it's most probably a mistake" on his Facebook page.

He was right.

Lots of other people were active in this thread early on also know the score now.

Steve Marsden has NEVER said that. .Steve still stands by his find..

by Guest 21.07.15 21:35

cloak'ndagger wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Verdi wrote:Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..
He knows the score.

He already knew the most likely score right at the beginning when he said "it's most probably a mistake" on his Facebook page.

He was right.

Lots of other people were active in this thread early on also know the score now.
Steve Marsden has NEVER said that. .Steve still stands by his find..

Really?

I read the Facebook page.. did you?

Anyway.. ask him.. come back and let us know.

by Guest 21.07.15 21:37

BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.
I've not had much time to look at this, how do you know the training url is from August?
You need to read the post where I showed it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I read your post previously and followed the link, and as I've said before it's pointless looking now at the calendar or the search mechanisms, anything to do with the 20070430115803 timestamp has been 'sorted' or manipulated if you like, therefore you've found nothing. big grin

by Guest 21.07.15 21:40

HKP wrote:

I read your post previously and followed the link, and as I've said before it's pointless looking now at the calendar or the search mechanisms, anything to do with the 20070430115803 timestamp has been 'sorted' or manipulated if you like, therefore you've found nothing.

This is irony?

by Guest 22.07.15 2:26

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.
I've not had much time to look at this, how do you know the training url is from August?
You need to read the post where I showed it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I read your post previously and followed the link, and as I've said before it's pointless looking now at the calendar or the search mechanisms, anything to do with the 20070430115803 timestamp has been 'sorted' or manipulated if you like, therefore you've found nothing.

Just as well that I captured the relevant data from before the fix. And posted the info and explanation on my blog before the fix. Not that I am a genius, but anyone could see that a fix was coming, and the WM data would then disappear. Then the claims of 'no data' would run rife.

by whodunit 22.07.15 5:33

HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
HKP wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
If I understand correctly what you are saying is that because this page - mccann.html - contains an embedded link to a page created in August 2007 that the way back machine must be broken in some way.

Yes.

Peter produced the complete html code for the mccann.html page that was in the 20070431115804 "folder".

It had a link in it to a page that only existed from August 2007 onwards.

QED.
Thanks. So the mccann.html file captured was created sometime after the page that it links to came into existence i.e. post August 2007?

Therefore, no version of mccann.html either existed or was reliably captured prior to August 2007.
Certainly not the one Peter Mac produced the HTML code for.

And that one had the 20070430115803 url as it's address.
I've not had much time to look at this, how do you know the training url is from August?
You need to read the post where I showed it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I read your post previously and followed the link, and as I've said before it's pointless looking now at the calendar or the search mechanisms, anything to do with the 20070430115803 timestamp has been 'sorted' or manipulated if you like, therefore you've found nothing.

What BB is claiming is since there was no crawl of the training page in August the training page did not exist. This is not accurate. The crawl of the homepage picked up the link to the training page but did not crawl the training page itself. Nothing mysterious, move along.

by Guest 22.07.15 7:53

whodunit wrote:

What BB is claiming is since there was no crawl of the training page in August the training page did not exist. This is not accurate. The crawl of the homepage picked up the link to the training page but did not crawl the training page itself. Nothing mysterious, move along.

Nope.

That is not what I'm saying.

But hey ho... I really can't be bothered to do this again... and the number of "believers" left is very small now.

by cloak'ndagger 22.07.15 21:55

BlueBag wrote:
cloak'ndagger wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Verdi wrote:Still no Steve Marsden to iron out the wrinkles? Leaves on the track..
He knows the score.

He already knew the most likely score right at the beginning when he said "it's most probably a mistake" on his Facebook page.

He was right.

Lots of other people were active in this thread early on also know the score now.
Steve Marsden has NEVER said that. .Steve still stands by his find..
Really?

I read the Facebook page.. did you?

Anyway.. ask him.. come back and let us know.

I am admin on facebook so speak to him every day. ..His find is not going to go away. He has stood by his claims but it will reach a wider audience, ,

Steve Marsden's WBM screenshot: The CEOP Home page for April 30, 2007 also refers to Missing Madeleine.