SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Doug D 18.07.15 10:09
I’m sure it’s been discussed before, but is Martin Smith initially suggesting a ‘Tannerman’ holding position, before changing it to the shoulder ‘carrying off plane’ position later on?
The shoulder position is certainly the most comfortable and natural position and one which a father would know, so his comment in his first statement does not make sense.
From Martin Smith’s 26th May statement:
‘He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.’
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Yet Peter Smith’s statement of same date:
‘He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.’
It was dark and fleeting, making it impossible to give any sort of identification/description that would ever stand up in a Court, but the manner in which a child was being carried should have been one of the few 'definites' in the statements, if there were any at all.
The shoulder position is certainly the most comfortable and natural position and one which a father would know, so his comment in his first statement does not make sense.
From Martin Smith’s 26th May statement:
‘He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.’
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Yet Peter Smith’s statement of same date:
‘He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.’
It was dark and fleeting, making it impossible to give any sort of identification/description that would ever stand up in a Court, but the manner in which a child was being carried should have been one of the few 'definites' in the statements, if there were any at all.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 10:36
Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett
The child was hiding the man's face, he says - and what he was wearing above his waist.
I can't find that in Martin Smith's statements. Indeed, he said in his 26th May statement:
His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and
had no beard or moustache.
So he obviously did see the man's face.
Can you tell me where you got the information that Martin Smith said the child was hiding the man's face?
Thanks
@ Nuala
Actually, it looks from Martin Smith's statement that he saw part of the man's face, or certainly did not see his face full on. He does not actually say that the child was covering his face (my mistake, sorry about that), but what he does say is that the man 'put his head down' (see bolded red, below). He also does, of course, say in his original statement (see below) that he can't recall what the man was wearing above his waist. But then he had an amazing bout of 'recovered memory' many months later and now 'remembers' that he was wearing 'a dark jacket'!
It is actually Aoife Smith who says this: "She can’t say what he was wearing on top because the child he was carrying covered him completely from the top".
Another significant change in his statement was about the age of the man he says he saw. Originally, he said: '35-40'. But when the McCanns wanted to put a summary of his statement on their 'Find Madeleine' website (which they did in May 2009), Martin Smith was quite happy to alter that to '34-35'. It would be very interesting to find out exactly when, why and how Martin Smith decided to change his original statement.
References below from the OP:
2. Did the man lower his head?
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
3. Whether they would be able to recognise the man again if they saw him – and Martin Smith’s changes of mind
Peter Smith: “We knew that what we had seen was so vague that we couldn't identify the guy”, (Drogheda Independent, 9 Jan 2008)
Aoife Smith: “At the time I saw his face but now I cannot remember it” (Statement to PJ).
All three of the Smiths told the PJ: “It is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph”.
Yet Martin Smith first said: ‘The man was definitely not Robert Murat’. Then, four months later, he said that he was sure the man was Gerry McCann. A few months after that, however, he co-operated with representatives of the McCanns, who were looking for an abductor, and helped them draw up two e-fits of the man they said they would never be able to recognise again.
4. What they saw of the child
Aoife Smith said she “didn’t see the child's face because she was lying vertically against the man’s left shoulder…”
But Peter Smith says he was able to see the girls’ face: “The girl was asleep; her eyelids were closed”
Martin Smith said: “The man didn’t speak, nor did the child as she was ‘in a deep sleep’,” but how could he tell she was asleep, let alone in a deep sleep, if, as Aofie says, she couldn’t see the child’s face at all?”
8. Contradictions by Martin Smith in what he saw of the man’s clothes above the waist
Martin Smith statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same”
Martin Smith to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “He was wearing a dark jacket or blazer”
Martin Smith statement audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “I can’t recall what he was wearing, apart from a pair of beige trousers”
9. Contradictions by Martin Smith in what he said about the age of the man
Martin Smith statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “Aged 35 to 40”
Martin Smith to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “Aged approximately 40”
Martin Smith statement audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “Perhaps 34 or 35”
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 10:49
Rob Royston wrote:What do we believe, a man's statement to the police, on 26th May 2007, not 2008, or newspaper reports printed after he had been "visited"?
REPLY: I suspect you would agree with me if I said: "A witness statement could be a tissue of lies from start to finish, while a newspaper report could be 100% accurate". Equally, it is possible that a witness is telling the God's honest truth, and a journalist or editor has got a story wrong.
I think in all cases, and in this case especially, it is important to bring analysis to everything that has been done, said or written, by anyone. I have set out a veritable mass of contradictions in the Smiths' statements, which deal a severe blow to their collective credibility.
By contrast, the newspaper reports dated 3 and 4 January 2008 purport to quote directly from Martin Smith, don't they? IIRC at least one of the papers spoke directly to him. I am satisfied from all that I have seen that Martin Smith having 'met Murat several times' over 'many years' is accurate.
In his statement to the PJ, Martin Smith says it was his son who had telephoned him and reminded them all about the encounter. Peter Smith had never been to Portugal before and Murat had been in England until two days before he went home, so it is quite unlikely that he knew Murat. He did know the son of the developer of the complex where his father had the apartment as he says he talked with him at Faro airport, so it could be possible that he knew of Murat from others mentioning him in conversation. This may be the reason why he called his father after Murat had been made an arquido.
REPLY: I remain to be persuaded that Peter's 'Am I only dreaming?' alleged 'phone call to his father on 16 May 2007 is anything but yet another Smith family fabrication
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 11:07
I fully agree with your observations, and indeed it is striking that we do not get a coherent description of how the child was supposed to have been carried from any of the three Smiths.Doug D wrote:I’m sure it’s been discussed before, but is Martin Smith initially suggesting a ‘Tannerman’ holding position, before changing it to the shoulder ‘carrying off plane’ position later on?
The shoulder position is certainly the most comfortable and natural position and one which a father would know, so his comment in his first statement does not make sense.
From Martin Smith’s 26th May statement:
‘He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.’
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Yet Peter Smith’s statement of same date:
‘He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.’
It was dark and fleeting, making it impossible to give any sort of identification/description that would ever stand up in a Court, but the manner in which a child was being carried should have been one of the few 'definites' in the statements, if there were any at all.
This conflict of evidence is particularly impossible to explain:
Aoife Smith: "she didn’t see the child's face because she was lying vertically against the man’s left shoulder
Peter Smith: The girl was asleep; her eyelids were closed".
So: Aoife couldn't see the girl's face at all; Peter had a clear vision of both eyelids!! Any police officer would tell you that something is badly wrong here.
And then we have Martin Smith weighing in with: "she was‘in a deep sleep". How oln earth does he fathom out that not only she was asleep but in a 'deep' sleep.
There are really so many different indications that they have fabricated Smithman
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 11:34
@ Doug D
I’m sure it’s been discussed before, but is Martin Smith initially suggesting a ‘Tannerman’ holding position, before changing it to the shoulder ‘carrying off plane’ position later on?
No, all three Smith statements in May 2007 are quite clear that the child was being carried in an "off the plane" position. Martin Smith said this: He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent.
A Smith said this: She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual.
Peter Smith said this: He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder
It's a shame therefore, that Richard D Hall, in his Phantoms video, has the Smith sighting child being carried in a "Tannerman" position, when all three Smiths said the opposite. So that was a notable inaccuracy.
I’m sure it’s been discussed before, but is Martin Smith initially suggesting a ‘Tannerman’ holding position, before changing it to the shoulder ‘carrying off plane’ position later on?
No, all three Smith statements in May 2007 are quite clear that the child was being carried in an "off the plane" position. Martin Smith said this: He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent.
A Smith said this: She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual.
Peter Smith said this: He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder
It's a shame therefore, that Richard D Hall, in his Phantoms video, has the Smith sighting child being carried in a "Tannerman" position, when all three Smiths said the opposite. So that was a notable inaccuracy.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by joyce1938 18.07.15 11:36
I am still on fence regards all this . I do realize that gaggle of a group of people walking in a that way some behind the other,it could bethtey saw different things. He could have slightly looked down or up and then there would be a difference to what people observed . The child would be lot shorter and hence see or observe something else,that's not at all odd thing .what would be odd is if all said exactly the same .Its understandable that they might not rush to get intouch with police straight away ,they would have been trying to make sure that this would be important trying to say what was needed to help,could easily been a child and father going home . hope this makes sense . joyce1938
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by sallypelt 18.07.15 11:41
joyce1938 wrote:I am still on fence regards all this . I do realize that gaggle of a group of people walking in a that way some behind the other,it could bethtey saw different things. He could have slightly looked down or up and then there would be a difference to what people observed . The child would be lot shorter and hence see or observe something else,that's not at all odd thing .what would be odd is if all said exactly the same .Its understandable that they might not rush to get intouch with police straight away ,they would have been trying to make sure that this would be important trying to say what was needed to help,could easily been a child and father going home . hope this makes sense . joyce1938
It's strange that no one mentions any other person in that area (pub area?) that night at that time, unless we haven't seen all the PJ files, and there WAS someone else, but they aren't telling us. But there again, if my aunty had
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by joyce1938 18.07.15 11:46
Mr Amaral has told us that there are things he cant tell now ,so I have nodoubt ,we don't have all the info we would like to think we have,there will be holes in what we are and have been putting together over the years .Just got to waite for MFI to open the files again we are told ,then the truth maybe told . joyce1938
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 18.07.15 11:47
Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.
— He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed.
— She was wearing light-coloured pyjamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any wrap or blanket. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.
child as she was in a deep sleep.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph. — Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further.
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— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.
— He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed.
— She was wearing light-coloured pyjamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any wrap or blanket. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.
child as she was in a deep sleep.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph. — Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Doug D 18.07.15 11:54
If that is what he meant by:
‘He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent.’
(ie not Tannerman, arms out with head to left side)
why then add:
‘He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.’
The ‘off the plane position’ is the natural and most comfortable position for both parent and child.
So why add clarification to something that should not need clarifying?
Hobs?
‘He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent.’
(ie not Tannerman, arms out with head to left side)
why then add:
‘He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.’
The ‘off the plane position’ is the natural and most comfortable position for both parent and child.
So why add clarification to something that should not need clarifying?
Hobs?
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by joyce1938 18.07.15 11:57
the tanner sighting has gone very quiet ,supposedly found to be a fathet has at last come forward and said he walked that route taking his daughter home ,the pyjamas didn't at all look like the Marks and spencers ones at all father still had them and they were shownfor us to see.what did people make of that situation ? its gone quiet and not now spoken about?joyce1938
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 12:23
@ Tony Bennett
what he does say is that the man 'put his head down'
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Actually Martin Smith didn't say that, he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane in Sep 2007:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. I don't see this as a contradiction either:
Martin Smith said: “The man didn’t speak, nor did the child as she was ‘in a deep sleep’,” but how could he tell she was asleep, let alone in a deep sleep, if, as Aofie says, she couldn’t see the child’s face at all?”
Both Martin Smith and Peter Smith were perfectly clear that the child was asleep so they obviously passed the man with the child's face in view, but A Smith passed on the opposite side of the man, so couldn't see the child's face.
9. Contradictions by Martin Smith in what he said about the age of the man
Martin Smith statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “Aged 35 to 40”
Martin Smith to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “Aged approximately 40”
Martin Smith statement audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “Perhaps 34 or 35”
The first two statements aren't a contradiction. Aged 35-40 is the same as aged approximately 40. The third statement though, is very interesting and you refer to it as well in this bit:
But when the McCanns wanted to put a summary of his statement on their 'Find Madeleine' website (which they did in May 2009), Martin Smith was quite happy to alter that to '34-35'. It would be very interesting to find out exactly when, why and how Martin Smith decided to change his original statement.
That's a very good point. Can you tell me where you got this information from, that it was Martin Smith that changed the estimated age of the man for the Find Madeleine website?
Thanks
what he does say is that the man 'put his head down'
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Actually Martin Smith didn't say that, he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane in Sep 2007:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. I don't see this as a contradiction either:
Martin Smith said: “The man didn’t speak, nor did the child as she was ‘in a deep sleep’,” but how could he tell she was asleep, let alone in a deep sleep, if, as Aofie says, she couldn’t see the child’s face at all?”
Both Martin Smith and Peter Smith were perfectly clear that the child was asleep so they obviously passed the man with the child's face in view, but A Smith passed on the opposite side of the man, so couldn't see the child's face.
9. Contradictions by Martin Smith in what he said about the age of the man
Martin Smith statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “Aged 35 to 40”
Martin Smith to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “Aged approximately 40”
Martin Smith statement audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “Perhaps 34 or 35”
The first two statements aren't a contradiction. Aged 35-40 is the same as aged approximately 40. The third statement though, is very interesting and you refer to it as well in this bit:
But when the McCanns wanted to put a summary of his statement on their 'Find Madeleine' website (which they did in May 2009), Martin Smith was quite happy to alter that to '34-35'. It would be very interesting to find out exactly when, why and how Martin Smith decided to change his original statement.
That's a very good point. Can you tell me where you got this information from, that it was Martin Smith that changed the estimated age of the man for the Find Madeleine website?
Thanks
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 12:39
@ Doug D
The ‘off the plane position’ is the natural and most comfortable position for both parent and child.
So why add clarification to something that should not need clarifying?
He wasn't clarifying the position of the child, but the apparent comfort of transporting "not being habitual" i.e. he wasn't used to it.
The ‘off the plane position’ is the natural and most comfortable position for both parent and child.
So why add clarification to something that should not need clarifying?
He wasn't clarifying the position of the child, but the apparent comfort of transporting "not being habitual" i.e. he wasn't used to it.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 16:25
@ Nuala I will be along later to reply to this and the rest of your post, but to answer it fully and to provide context for my reply - and for the benefit generally of anyone else coming along to view this thread, let me set out what are the obvious 'NINE PHASES' of the 'Smithman' sighting.Nuala wrote:That's a very good point. Can you tell me where you got this information from, that it was Martin Smith that changed the estimated age of the man for the Find Madeleine website?
Thus:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Phase 1
from 3 to 15 May 2007:
AN UNREPORTED SIGHTING
The Smiths claim to have seen a man carrying a child, but do not report it – a baffling delay
Phase 2
rom 16 May to 20 September 2007:
A REPORTED SIGHTING
The Smiths get round to reporting what they say they saw – the day after someone they know, Robert Murat, is made an unofficial suspect in the case. The Portuguese Police interview three members of the Smith family on 26 May.
Phase 3
from 20 September to December 2007:
COULD IT BE GERRY MCCANN?
Martin Smith triggers new interest in the sighting by claiming that he was 60% to 80% sure that he really saw Gerry McCann that night in early May. He bases this on the way Gerry McCann walked down the steps of an aeroplane on 9 September. He delays reporting his new belief for 11 days
Phase 4
from January 2008 to December 2008:
THE MCCANNS TAKE OVER THE SMITH SIGHTING
Newspaper articles on 3 and 4 January 2008 reveal that Metodo 3 have ‘already’ been in touch with the Smith and that Cheshire businessman Brian Kennedy, one of the McCann Team, is also involved. The Sun reported that “Investigators from the Metodo 3 agency hired by Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate are preparing to travel to Ireland to interview them”. Kennedy contacts the Smiths. Henri Exton, and possibly Irishman Kevin Halligen, talk to the Smiths and produce two e-fits of different-looking men.
Phase 5
from January to May 2009:
SMITHMAN FEATURES IN A PRO-MCCANN DOCUMENTARY
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar appointed to lead the McCann private investigation, around November 2008. Former Detective Sergeant Arthur Cowley appointed later. They help to prepare the ‘Mockumentary’ prepared by Mentorn Media and shown by Channel 4 on May 2009. The documentary, in two lengthy passages, suggests that ‘Tannerman’ and ‘Smithman’ are one and the same
Phase 6
from May 2009 to April 2011:
SMITHMAN PROMOTED AS A KEY SUSPECT ON THE MCCANNS’ FIND MADELEINE WEBSITE
This is the period during which the McCanns actively promoted the Smith sighting on their ‘Find Madeleine’ website, with a 30-second audio clip of a man with an Irish accent repeating a summary of the Smiths’ evidence. During this audio clip, the voice is heard to say that the man looked ’34-35’. But in his original police statement, he had stated the man looked ’35-40. This was actually the second time Martin Smith changed his mind, as when he was interviewed a second time by the Irish police, he gave the man’s age as ‘40’.
Phase 7
May 2011:
SMITHMAN PROMOTED IN KATE MCCANN’S BOOK, ‘madeleine’:
When Dr Kate McCann published her book, ‘madeleine’, on 11 May 2011, seven pages of her book mentioned Smithman. Three of these seven pages consisted of an itemised list of the ‘striking similarities between ‘Tannerman’ and ‘Smithman’.
Phase 8
from May 2011 to September 2013:
DCI REDWOOD PREPARES TO REVEAL SMITHMAN AS HIS MAIN SUSPECT
He talks to Martin Smith at least twice. There is on-the-record confirmation that he met Det Chief Insp Andy Redwood of Operation at least twice, once in 2012 and once in 2013. Undoubtedly this was to discuss the BB Crimewatch McCann Special which had long been planned with the BBC Crimewatch Team.
Phase 9
from October 2013 to now:
SMITHMAN REVEALED BY SCOTLAND YARD AS THE CHIEF SUSPECT
There was a blaze of pre-programme hype and then innumerable BBC trailers promoting the BBC Crimewatch McCann show, transmited to an audience of 6.7 million viewers. In this broadcast, DCI Andy Redwood showed us two efits of different-looking people, implying that the Smiths drew them up. He claimed that the man represented by these two e-fiyts ‘is now the centre of our focus’.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 18:05
@ Tony Bennett
I will be along later to reply to this and the rest of your post
Thank you, much appreciated
Phase 4
from January 2008 to December 2008:
THE MCCANNS TAKE OVER THE SMITH SIGHTING
Newspaper articles on 3 and 4 January 2008 reveal that Metodo 3 have ‘already’ been in touch with the Smith and that Cheshire businessman Brian Kennedy, one of the McCann Team, is also involved. The Sun reported that “Investigators from the Metodo 3 agency hired by Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate are preparing to travel to Ireland to interview them”. Kennedy contacts the Smiths. Henri Exton, and possibly Irishman Kevin Halligen, talk to the Smiths and produce two e-fits of different-looking men.
The e-fits are clearly of the same man. On this thread here:
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Jon Tait from Twitter has shown that when you make a composite of the two images it's exactly the same man. Indeed so alike are they it's virtually impossible to tell that it's a composite of two images.
Also, I would add to this phase the sentence:
These two e-fits were not released to the public because they looked exactly like Gerry McCann.
Phase 9
from October 2013 to now:
SMITHMAN REVEALED BY SCOTLAND YARD AS THE CHIEF SUSPECT
There was a blaze of pre-programme hype and then innumerable BBC trailers promoting the BBC Crimewatch McCann show, transmited to an audience of 6.7 million viewers. In this broadcast, DCI Andy Redwood showed us two efits of different-looking people, implying that the Smiths drew them up. He claimed that the man represented by these two e-fiyts ‘is now the centre of our focus’.
They were drawn up by the Smiths, I believe an FOI request confirmed this?
Also, I would add to that Phase 9 the sentence:
Since the release of the e-fits of Op Grange's main suspect the Find Madeleine website has removed all references to the Smith sighting (apart from the short audio clip) and is actively promoting the Tannerman sighting, followed by Pimpleman and the VB lookalike. This, of course, is because the e-fits released by Op Grange look exactly like Gerry McCann.
I will be along later to reply to this and the rest of your post
Thank you, much appreciated
Phase 4
from January 2008 to December 2008:
THE MCCANNS TAKE OVER THE SMITH SIGHTING
Newspaper articles on 3 and 4 January 2008 reveal that Metodo 3 have ‘already’ been in touch with the Smith and that Cheshire businessman Brian Kennedy, one of the McCann Team, is also involved. The Sun reported that “Investigators from the Metodo 3 agency hired by Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate are preparing to travel to Ireland to interview them”. Kennedy contacts the Smiths. Henri Exton, and possibly Irishman Kevin Halligen, talk to the Smiths and produce two e-fits of different-looking men.
The e-fits are clearly of the same man. On this thread here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Jon Tait from Twitter has shown that when you make a composite of the two images it's exactly the same man. Indeed so alike are they it's virtually impossible to tell that it's a composite of two images.
Also, I would add to this phase the sentence:
These two e-fits were not released to the public because they looked exactly like Gerry McCann.
Phase 9
from October 2013 to now:
SMITHMAN REVEALED BY SCOTLAND YARD AS THE CHIEF SUSPECT
There was a blaze of pre-programme hype and then innumerable BBC trailers promoting the BBC Crimewatch McCann show, transmited to an audience of 6.7 million viewers. In this broadcast, DCI Andy Redwood showed us two efits of different-looking people, implying that the Smiths drew them up. He claimed that the man represented by these two e-fiyts ‘is now the centre of our focus’.
They were drawn up by the Smiths, I believe an FOI request confirmed this?
Also, I would add to that Phase 9 the sentence:
Since the release of the e-fits of Op Grange's main suspect the Find Madeleine website has removed all references to the Smith sighting (apart from the short audio clip) and is actively promoting the Tannerman sighting, followed by Pimpleman and the VB lookalike. This, of course, is because the e-fits released by Op Grange look exactly like Gerry McCann.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 18.07.15 18:42
I think what logical question that needs to be asked about the Smith's sighting is Why would they deliberately contact the police with such a story if it wasn't true? What would they possibly hope to gain by it? To insert themselves into a high profile criminal case of a missing child for their bit of fame, or for some other reason? I am still really not certain what to think about the Smith's sighting and how it all ties in to the case? I just can't see why parents would place their child into the stressful situation of being interviewed by the police as to what she saw if it was all untrue, and that would mean they had to coach their daughter to lie to the police and get their stories straight, i just can't imagine they would do that as loving parents, and it keeps me on the fence about it all, yet on the other hand something is also a bit off with the story.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 18.07.15 18:49
Also if M. Smith states this:
(Quote from PJ files)
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph. —
How on earth would he be able to participate in drawing up an e-fit of the person he saw on the night carrying a child? Was he making stuff up from his imagination?
(Quote from PJ files)
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph. —
How on earth would he be able to participate in drawing up an e-fit of the person he saw on the night carrying a child? Was he making stuff up from his imagination?
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by notlongnow 18.07.15 18:51
Joss wrote:I think what logical question that needs to be asked about the Smith's sighting is Why would they deliberately contact the police with such a story if it wasn't true? What would they possibly hope to gain by it? To insert themselves into a high profile criminal case of a missing child for their bit of fame, or for some other reason? I am still really not certain what to think about the Smith's sighting and how it all ties in to the case? I just can't see why parents would place their child into the stressful situation of being interviewed by the police as to what she saw if it was all untrue, and that would mean they had to coach their daughter to lie to the police and get their stories straight, i just can't imagine they would do that as loving parents, and it keeps me on the fence about it all, yet on the other hand something is also a bit off with the story.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
Likewise i have the same veiw as you.
The only person i can see it has helped is RM.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by cockerspaniel 18.07.15 19:03
Just a thought but, if Mr Smith had seen someone carrying a child and it had been RM, wouldnt he have thought "thats odd, RM carrying a child about at night, ive seen him around before (most likely I assume without his daughter) , what on earth is he doing carrying a child around at this time of the evening? maybe to even say something in passing to the group re this?? also, with people you know by passing looks only, in such a small village you would expect a mutual head nod of acknowledgement maybe between 2 adult men of that age ??
hope this makes sense.
hope this makes sense.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 18.07.15 19:21
And the lovely Kate McCann had this to say about RM with no proof whatsoever:notlongnow wrote:Joss wrote:I think what logical question that needs to be asked about the Smith's sighting is Why would they deliberately contact the police with such a story if it wasn't true? What would they possibly hope to gain by it? To insert themselves into a high profile criminal case of a missing child for their bit of fame, or for some other reason? I am still really not certain what to think about the Smith's sighting and how it all ties in to the case? I just can't see why parents would place their child into the stressful situation of being interviewed by the police as to what she saw if it was all untrue, and that would mean they had to coach their daughter to lie to the police and get their stories straight, i just can't imagine they would do that as loving parents, and it keeps me on the fence about it all, yet on the other hand something is also a bit off with the story.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
Likewise i have the same veiw as you.
The only person i can see it has helped is RM.
[color:c14e=000000]In her notes dated July 18, almost two months after Maddie's disappearance and at a time when there are starting to appear indicia against the McCanns, Kate sounds disheartened and reinforces the accusations against Murat: "I had lots of hope that there would be progress in Murat's situation. I'm sure that he is involved and I feel like killing him, but I can't".
[color:c14e=000000][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[color:c14e=000000]K. McCann sure liked to wish harm [color:c14e=000000]on people, what a despicable person she is.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 20:46
@ Nuala and others visiting this threadNuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett
I will be along later to reply to this and the rest of your post
Thank you, much appreciated
Before answering your previous questions, your new ones, and also points and queries by others on the thread, can I please ask you (or anyone else) if you consent to these 8 sets of propositions about the Smiths' claimed sightings - thanks - it will help to know if these are accepted before we move on, or, if not, where you disagree:
Propositions re the Smiths
1. On 26 May 2007, he said the age of the nan he had seen was ’35 to 40’
2. The Smiths’ descriptions of Smithman resemble those of Tanner and Lourenco on Wojcek Krokowksi to a remarkable degree, all referring to ‘warm, cloth clothes and that repetitive phrase: ‘Didn’t look like a tourist’
3. On 20 September 2007, he told an Irish Police Officer that the man was ‘about 40’
4. Ever since December of January, he has been in the hands of the McCann Team and working for them
5. In the recording of an Irishman placed on the McCanns’ website, the description of the man’s age changes again: not ’35 to 40’, not ‘about 40’ but the very precise ‘perhaps 34 or 35’
6. On the subject of what clothes the man was wearing, Martin Smith changed his story twice:
A - Statement to PJ, 26 May 2007: “He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same”
B - THEN: Statement to Irish police officer, 30 January 2008: “He was wearing a dark jacket or blazer”
C - THEN: Audio recording put on McCanns’ website, May 2009: “I can’t recall what he was wearing, apart from a pair of beige trousers”
7. It is not normal for witnesses to change their statements
8. When the description by an Irishman of a man aged ‘perhaps 34-35’ was agreed by the McCann Team, one of these four things occurred:
A. Martin Smith changed his mind and told the McCanns the man was more like ’34-35’ than ‘40’, or
B. The McCann Team suggested this and asked his permission to change it, or
C. The McCann Team did it anyway and then told him, or
D. The McCann Team did it anyway and never bothered to tell him
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Verdi 18.07.15 21:04
Funny you say that. I've just seen a comment posted over the way by someone who shall remain nameless. H-RH says she completely empathised with Mr Smith when she read his statement (?). The family were caught up in this circus through no fault of their own.Joss wrote:I think what logical question that needs to be asked about the Smith's sighting is Why would they deliberately contact the police with such a story if it wasn't true? What would they possibly hope to gain by it? To insert themselves into a high profile criminal case of a missing child for their bit of fame, or for some other reason? I am still really not certain what to think about the Smith's sighting and how it all ties in to the case? I just can't see why parents would place their child into the stressful situation of being interviewed by the police as to what she saw if it was all untrue, and that would mean they had to coach their daughter to lie to the police and get their stories straight, i just can't imagine they would do that as loving parents, and it keeps me on the fence about it all, yet on the other hand something is also a bit off with the story.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
IMO to suggest that the Smith family were caught up in the circus through no fault of their own is total nonsense. They weren't caught up in any circus, it was their decision and their decision alone to contact the police, so effectively it was their own fault. On the surface, nobody knew of this mystery man roaming the streets carrying a child on the night of 3rd May until the Smith family volunteered the information - so why did they do that some three weeks after the event? They didn't have to but appeared to wait until a given time before doing so - what or who prompted them to make this decision?
Had they have reported the incident closer to the time then I might be 100% convinced but as they waited until a particular time and even then only three of he family volunteered to make a statement (one very evasive), it does indicate that there was a specific reason for their decision other than assisting the investigation.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 21:12
@ Tony Bennett
can I please ask you (or anyone else) if you consent to these 8 sets of propositions about the Smiths' claimed sightings
I'd prefer not to do it that way if you don't mind because it's not a logical way of getting to what's correct and what isn't.
I would prefer if we could take some of the points in your OP and see which ones we can eliminate, that way we will see what we are left with. I hope that sounds reasonable, it's the logical way to do it because some points are easier to deal with than others so can be sorted fairly easily I hope.
So, for example, in your OP you said this:
2. Did the man lower his head?
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Martin Smith didn't say that. In his September 2007 statement he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. Would you agree therefore that point 2 in your OP actually doesn't represent a contradiction and should therefore be removed?
Just one other thing whilst reading your OP I noticed you said this:
Mary Smith refused to give a formal witness statement.
That is incorrect. Mary Smith did make a statement. Her statement isn't in the PJ files released to the public. She declined to make a further statement.
I don't know if there is a time limit on being able to edit a post, but that should be removed because it's incorrect.
can I please ask you (or anyone else) if you consent to these 8 sets of propositions about the Smiths' claimed sightings
I'd prefer not to do it that way if you don't mind because it's not a logical way of getting to what's correct and what isn't.
I would prefer if we could take some of the points in your OP and see which ones we can eliminate, that way we will see what we are left with. I hope that sounds reasonable, it's the logical way to do it because some points are easier to deal with than others so can be sorted fairly easily I hope.
So, for example, in your OP you said this:
2. Did the man lower his head?
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Martin Smith didn't say that. In his September 2007 statement he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. Would you agree therefore that point 2 in your OP actually doesn't represent a contradiction and should therefore be removed?
Just one other thing whilst reading your OP I noticed you said this:
Mary Smith refused to give a formal witness statement.
That is incorrect. Mary Smith did make a statement. Her statement isn't in the PJ files released to the public. She declined to make a further statement.
I don't know if there is a time limit on being able to edit a post, but that should be removed because it's incorrect.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 21:16
@ Verdi I think the above is a useful new angle on 'Smithman'.Verdi wrote:Funny you say that. I've just seen a comment posted over the way by someone who shall remain nameless. H-RH says she completely empathised with Mr Smith when she read his statement (?). The family were caught up in this circus through no fault of their own.
IMO to suggest that the Smith family were caught up in the circus through no fault of their own is total nonsense. They weren't caught up in any circus, it was their decision and their decision alone to contact the police, so effectively it was their own fault. On the surface, nobody knew of this mystery man roaming the streets carrying a child on the night of 3rd May until the Smith family volunteered the information - so why did they do that some three weeks after the event? They didn't have to but appeared to wait until a given time before doing so - what or who prompted them to make this decision?
Had they have reported the incident closer to the time then I might be 100% convinced but as they waited until a particular time and even then only three of he family volunteered to make a statement (one very evasive), it does indicate that there was a specific reason for their decision other than assisting the investigation.
It leads, I think, to this question: "Would the Smiths have reported their sighting if someone they knew well [viz., Murat] had not been arrested the day before for the appalling crime of abducting a 3-year-old child from an apartment?"
Another question I have not yet seen satisfactorily answered by ANYONE is: "Why are the descriptions by Nuno Lourenco of Wojcek Krokowksi and by Jane Tanner of 'Tannerman' near-identical [see 'The Truth about a Lie'], and why are the Smiths' descriptions of 'Smithman' ALSO near-identical to those by Nuno Lourenco and Jane Tanner?"
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Tony Bennett 18.07.15 21:19
It would be very helpful, then, if you could simply indicate which (if any) of the 8 propositions re Smithman you disagree with (and why). It will considerably help me in answering your questions.Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett
can I please ask you (or anyone else) if you consent to these 8 sets of propositions about the Smiths' claimed sightings
I'd prefer not to do it that way if you don't mind because it's not a logical way of getting to what's correct and what isn't.
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Nuala 18.07.15 21:37
@ Tony Bennett
It would be very helpful, then, if you could simply indicate which (if any) of the 8 propositions re Smithman you disagree with (and why). It will considerably help me in answering your questions.
I'd prefer to come back to the propositions later because the logical way to approach this is to discuss some of the points in your OP in turn. You've quoted your OP many times in this thread, so that's the logical way to do it. Which of your propositions I agree or disagree with makes no difference to that. In your OP you are stating certain things as facts, so we should be discussing whether they're facts or not.
So, for example, in your OP you said this:
2. Did the man lower his head?
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Martin Smith didn't say that. In his September 2007 statement he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. Would you agree therefore that point 2 in your OP actually doesn't represent a contradiction and should therefore be removed?
It would be very helpful, then, if you could simply indicate which (if any) of the 8 propositions re Smithman you disagree with (and why). It will considerably help me in answering your questions.
I'd prefer to come back to the propositions later because the logical way to approach this is to discuss some of the points in your OP in turn. You've quoted your OP many times in this thread, so that's the logical way to do it. Which of your propositions I agree or disagree with makes no difference to that. In your OP you are stating certain things as facts, so we should be discussing whether they're facts or not.
So, for example, in your OP you said this:
2. Did the man lower his head?
Peter Smith to the PJ: “He did not try to hide his face nor did he lower his gaze”.
But Martin Smith statement “He put his head down”.
Martin Smith didn't say that. In his September 2007 statement he said this about GM carrying his child down the steps of the plane:
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him.
I think anyone looking at that footage can see that even with GM's head slightly down, his face is still perfectly clear, so I don't see that as a contradiction. Would you agree therefore that point 2 in your OP actually doesn't represent a contradiction and should therefore be removed?
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Verdi 19.07.15 0:12
No, I'm not convinced that the Smiths would have reported their sighting without a particular reason, I think the timing is too much of a coincidence to be explained away with suggestions such as they didn't want to be involved or it never occurred to them that the person they saw may have been Madeleine's alleged abductor.Tony Bennett wrote:@ Verdi I think the above is a useful new angle on 'Smithman'.Verdi wrote:Funny you say that. I've just seen a comment posted over the way by someone who shall remain nameless. H-RH says she completely empathised with Mr Smith when she read his statement (?). The family were caught up in this circus through no fault of their own.
IMO to suggest that the Smith family were caught up in the circus through no fault of their own is total nonsense. They weren't caught up in any circus, it was their decision and their decision alone to contact the police, so effectively it was their own fault. On the surface, nobody knew of this mystery man roaming the streets carrying a child on the night of 3rd May until the Smith family volunteered the information - so why did they do that some three weeks after the event? They didn't have to but appeared to wait until a given time before doing so - what or who prompted them to make this decision?
Had they have reported the incident closer to the time then I might be 100% convinced but as they waited until a particular time and even then only three of he family volunteered to make a statement (one very evasive), it does indicate that there was a specific reason for their decision other than assisting the investigation.
It leads, I think, to this question: "Would the Smiths have reported their sighting if someone they knew well [viz., Murat] had not been arrested the day before for the appalling crime of abducting a 3-year-old child from an apartment?"
Another question I have not yet seen satisfactorily answered by ANYONE is: "Why are the descriptions by Nuno Lourenco of Wojcek Krokowksi and by Jane Tanner of 'Tannerman' near-identical [see 'The Truth about a Lie'], and why are the Smiths' descriptions of 'Smithman' ALSO near-identical to those by Nuno Lourenco and Jane Tanner?"
The thing that particularly strikes me about Tanner's sighting and that of the Smiths is they both said the person they saw was fully dressed and didn't appear to be a tourist, yet the child carried was said to be uncovered wearing only pyjamas, again highly unlikely occurrence and too much of a coincidence to be believable. Also it was thought (the Smiths in particular) the person was most likely a father carrying his child home - coming from where and going to where I ask? Is it really such a common sight at the beginning of May for someone to be carrying a child around the streets as many people seem to think?
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 19.07.15 3:27
If the Smith's saw anything at all i wouldn't think they saw a father nonchalantly carrying around his deceased child on the streets of PDL. What kind of crazy person would do and risk such a thing?
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Joss 19.07.15 3:31
Agree, the Smith's for whatever reason inserted themselves into the case.Verdi wrote:Funny you say that. I've just seen a comment posted over the way by someone who shall remain nameless. H-RH says she completely empathised with Mr Smith when she read his statement (?). The family were caught up in this circus through no fault of their own.Joss wrote:I think what logical question that needs to be asked about the Smith's sighting is Why would they deliberately contact the police with such a story if it wasn't true? What would they possibly hope to gain by it? To insert themselves into a high profile criminal case of a missing child for their bit of fame, or for some other reason? I am still really not certain what to think about the Smith's sighting and how it all ties in to the case? I just can't see why parents would place their child into the stressful situation of being interviewed by the police as to what she saw if it was all untrue, and that would mean they had to coach their daughter to lie to the police and get their stories straight, i just can't imagine they would do that as loving parents, and it keeps me on the fence about it all, yet on the other hand something is also a bit off with the story.
Eyewitness testimony can in a lot of cases be very wrong, and convict innocent people in crimes.
IMO to suggest that the Smith family were caught up in the circus through no fault of their own is total nonsense. They weren't caught up in any circus, it was their decision and their decision alone to contact the police, so effectively it was their own fault. On the surface, nobody knew of this mystery man roaming the streets carrying a child on the night of 3rd May until the Smith family volunteered the information - so why did they do that some three weeks after the event? They didn't have to but appeared to wait until a given time before doing so - what or who prompted them to make this decision?
Had they have reported the incident closer to the time then I might be 100% convinced but as they waited until a particular time and even then only three of he family volunteered to make a statement (one very evasive), it does indicate that there was a specific reason for their decision other than assisting the investigation.
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Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Rob Royston 19.07.15 11:06
When the Irish policeman Hogan forwarded Martin Smith's statement to the PJ, about how he felt that it was Gerry McCann that he had seen in the street on the evening of the 3rd May 2007, he added a covering note where he told of the fact that Martin Smith did not court the media and had in fact legally challenged some of what they had written previously about his family, forcing them to retract and apologise.Tony Bennett wrote:Rob Royston wrote:What do we believe, a man's statement to the police, on 26th May 2007, not 2008, or newspaper reports printed after he had been "visited"?
REPLY: I suspect you would agree with me if I said: "A witness statement could be a tissue of lies from start to finish, while a newspaper report could be 100% accurate". Equally, it is possible that a witness is telling the God's honest truth, and a journalist or editor has got a story wrong.
I think in all cases, and in this case especially, it is important to bring analysis to everything that has been done, said or written, by anyone. I have set out a veritable mass of contradictions in the Smiths' statements, which deal a severe blow to their collective credibility.
By contrast, the newspaper reports dated 3 and 4 January 2008 purport to quote directly from Martin Smith, don't they? IIRC at least one of the papers spoke directly to him. I am satisfied from all that I have seen that Martin Smith having 'met Murat several times' over 'many years' is accurate.
In his statement to the PJ, Martin Smith says it was his son who had telephoned him and reminded them all about the encounter. Peter Smith had never been to Portugal before and Murat had been in England until two days before he went home, so it is quite unlikely that he knew Murat. He did know the son of the developer of the complex where his father had the apartment as he says he talked with him at Faro airport, so it could be possible that he knew of Murat from others mentioning him in conversation. This may be the reason why he called his father after Murat had been made an arquido.
REPLY: I remain to be persuaded that Peter's 'Am I only dreaming?' alleged 'phone call to his father on 16 May 2007 is anything but yet another Smith family fabrication
It would seem to me that Mr Smith had little time for newspaper reporters, yet you are telling us now that all that suddenly changed after his "visitations" and that the papers suddenly became his confidantes. Is it not more likely that the papers printed whatever they were told to print by others, it seems to me to be what they always do.
I've no doubt in my mind that the news of Murat having been brought in for questioning was the catalyst for the Smiths remembering what they had seen. That does not mean that they "fabricated" any lies to help Murat.
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Similar topics» Rachael Oldfield's Rogatory Interview - Notes from a Potting Shedder
» SMITHMAN 8 - The Nine Phases of Smithman - How the Smiths became part of the McCann Team in January 2008
» SMITHMAN 7: What is the actual evidence that makes people think that ‘Smithman’ was Gerry McCann?
» SMITHMAN 9 - Is Goncalo Amaral sticking to his original conclusions re Smithman?
» SMITHMAN 11 An answer to Carla Spade about evidence that Martin Smith collaborated with the McCann Team since January 2008
» SMITHMAN 8 - The Nine Phases of Smithman - How the Smiths became part of the McCann Team in January 2008
» SMITHMAN 7: What is the actual evidence that makes people think that ‘Smithman’ was Gerry McCann?
» SMITHMAN 9 - Is Goncalo Amaral sticking to his original conclusions re Smithman?
» SMITHMAN 11 An answer to Carla Spade about evidence that Martin Smith collaborated with the McCann Team since January 2008
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