"Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Which they could have done in May of this year........... but that would have been end of story (money, limelight, fame)

Back to BASICS regarding the "Abductor".

WHY would KM be shocked horrified and surprised that the window was open ?

Yes she DENIED ever opening that window !
But forensics show "only" HER handprint, in a position which could "only" be there from opening the window.

"Abductor ?" NO all available evidence points to a staged event !!

 (It was a crucial MISTAKE, because the cleaner had been in 5A the previous day and done a thorough job on the windows and surrounds. SO despite stating that she had never opened that window, she must have done so)

All available in the Police files.

maebee wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Which they could have done in May of this year........... but that would have been end of story (money, limelight, fame)

I think the logic is:

1. The PJ files have to be kept out of the public domain in the UK - the files must not be discussed in detail. Because that could be fatal, there being so many unanswerable questions generated by those files which the UK Media would love to get their teeth into, but they are too scared and spineless to do so before they get some sort of green light from the courts.

2. In order for 1 to be accomplished, Amaral's book, "The Truth About the Lie" has to be suppressed so there can be no question of an English language version getting widely circulated.

3. In order for 2 to be accomplished, Amaral has to be sued.

4. The current NSY operation is back up...as long as the Met Police, with their still strong reputation, are on the case, chasing various phantoms that call into question the validity of the PJ investigation, that helps ensure that the PJ files are not given credence in the UK. This could go on for years yet. The longer the better as far as Team McCann are concerned.

5. All the above are backed up by a network of contacts in universities, health service, judiciary, police, legal profession, political parties, charities, media etc. that Team McCann have built up carefully and use to the full.

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Who has offered the McCanns a legitimate 'out', BG?

1. Without the consent of the High Court they cannot make application for its Ward to be declared dead.

2. If they admit to believing their eldest daughter is deceased they may jeopardise that part of the claim they have filed in the Lisbon courts to the effect that Dr Amaral's book has harmed the search for her.

3.  A declaration of death in respect of the child will not stop Op Grange in its tracks, but it will cause the tills in the online shop to stop jingling..

We are approaching the end of 2014 and I'm willing to bet a considerable sum that the ongoing police investigations in Portugal and the UK will be concluded long before the coming new year grows old.  .  .

maebee wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Which they could have done in May of this year........... but that would have been end of story (money, limelight, fame)

I would hope at this stage of the game that most people have woken up to the McCann charade and have stopped paying them any attention or donating to their fraudation? Wonder how they are generating any income these days? Surely not on the back of their missing child? I know they are probably hoping to win the damages claim against Mr. Amaral in Portugal, but they haven't proven any damages in that claim IMO, so good luck with that...

"this morning i have the extraordinary privilege to speak to the man who was in charge of Operation Grange, which was set up, over three and a half years ago, with unlimited taxpayer funding, established, to find the fiend, who 'abducted'  wee Madeleine McCann"

"Good morning, DCI, or should i say ex DCI?"

"Good morning Lorraine, ex DCI will be fine"

""Did you come close to finding out what happened to wee Maddie?"

"If the Portuguese Police had given us 'samples and fingerprints' of the four 'arguidos' i'm certain we'd have the culprit in custody today"

"How so, Andy? Many i call you Andy?"

"Well Lorraine, the 38 strong, full time, team of elite Maddie cops, had spent extensive days and months  scrutinising the PJ files, the McCann's own PI's files and phone records and had narrowed the probable suspects down to just 4 people.

"Wow, Totes Amazeballs"

" Yep, Lorraine. i'd go further and say that, and this is  an exclusive for you, and say the local schitzo did it"

"I'm impressed, Andy"

"Thankyou. I'm certain that had the PJ illegally given us their 'samples and fingerprints' our people, from Dept Q, would have been able to declare they 'matched' identically, the unidentified  fingerprints and samples my OG team planted ' found' in apartment G5A, the McCann's apartment."

"Just as Dept Q found the 'evidence' that PROVED Barry  George 'killed' Jill Dando"?

"Exactly, Lorraine, the local  'nutter' did it!" You have to remember that my team found that PDL, in May 2007, was absolutely awash with, burglators, peados, gypsies and all manner of unsavoury people, on every street corner! And still is i believe, That's why MW have crossed, the OC at least, off their holiday resort destination list. If only the PJ had played ball, this case would have been done and dusted, over a year ago"

"so, the bumbling, bungling, Portuguese PJ messed up again?"

" i'm afraid so, Lorraine"

" Will you keep in contact with K&G now you've retired?"

"Yes i will, Lorraine. They have kindly invited me to join the board of directors, of their Madeleine Fund, their limited, private,   registered company. It's an extraordinary privilege."

"Well, thankyou Andy, it's been emotional and extraordinary, meeting you"

"Remember Lorraine, if ALL else fails, it's ALWAYS the defenceless local nutter, schitzo, wot dunnit, innit, geddit!"

"Keep 'em peeled"
----------------------------------------------------
The bitterest TRUTH, is better than the sweetest LIE.

Had to smile reading that, jeanmonroe.       

The papers will never print that the Home Office dragged their feet and never sent the PJ the McCann bank / medical details.

Tony Bennett wrote:

ultimaThule wrote:I seem to recall that following the Crimewatch programme which was broadcast in October 2013 PeterMac posted a revised timeline based on the statements of the McCanns and their pals which showed that the only window of opportunity available to any abductor(s) was a matter of a couple of minutes c9.55pm.  

That's quite right, he did.

I think perhaps he may have narrowed the timeframe a bit too much, but it was based on such things as the time Gerry was talking to Jeremy Wilkins and on the time of Matthew Oldfield's check - PM basically said there were large chunks of the time between 9.11pm and 10.00pm when an abduction was impossible. And he was dead right about that.

But that is exactly where DCI Redwood brought his 6.7 million viewers; Madeleine was...

...abducted...

...somewhen between 9.11pm and 10.00pm...

...probably by a burglar...

...who killed Madleieine in Apartment G5A...

...and took away her body...

...was seen a few minute later by the Smiths...

..and disposed of her body somewhere.

It sounds cruel and bizarre to spell out what Redwood was implying.

But it's all there in the Crimewatch McCann Show and in his other public utterances

I am now firmly in the belief that the Smith sighting has been given a bit of credibility to help ensure that the McCanns stay in the clear for neglect regardless of who disposed of her body.

As we know, cadaver scent doesn't develop immediately, therefore the initial suggested 'window of opportunity' of 3 mins with Tannerman would not fit with the dogs finding and the hogwash what was presented as 'the child checking rota' by the tapas group and it puts a massive red flag on the McCanns and the tapas group as it is clear that they have been lying about how often (or not) they have been checking on the kids. 

Therefore...step in Smithman.... all of a sudden adds a potential 40 ish minutes to the timeframe, which, if stretched a little, could answer how someone could enter 5a, perform an act, allow for cadaver scent to start materialising, then run down the street.

Smithman was,  IMO purely introduced back then to put Murat in the clear by the Smiths, but it has been used and abused by various parties to help fit a story to keep the McCanns in the clear for their neglect.

In reality, i have no doubt that SY are not looking for an abducting burglar at all, IMO they believe Tannerman is genuine, but as Tanner herself is flaky and the conditions were bad to make a clear identification, even if they could identify that person, it would not stand up in court . As such, they introduced 'crecheman' to rid the tannerman sighting and are happy to let Smithman sit in the spotlight to help the McCanns.

I believe they are (rightly or wrongly) only looking for a lone paedo who entered the apartment any time after 4pm, performed a s*x act on Madeleine, she died, the scene was cleaned and the body was removed at 9.15pm ish and confirmation of this at 10pm.

In summary - Smithman used for public facing stories to keep the McCanns from coming under attack for neglect
                   - Tannerman/other (paedo) being followed up whilst SY know full well that non of the kids were being checked from at least 4pm

With regard to evidence between PJ and UK police.... I can confidently say that both forces will have all available evidence, due to the influential people involved (i.e both prime ministers!), not just the P.I.I files we see on-line, but ALL files. Therefor all this media rubbish is just that.....rubbish.

IMO of course

Joss wrote:

maebee wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Which they could have done in May of this year........... but that would have been end of story (money, limelight, fame)

I would hope at this stage of the game that most people have woken up to the McCann charade and have stopped paying them any attention or donating to their fraudation? Wonder how they are generating any income these days? Surely not on the back of their missing child? I know they are probably hoping to win the damages claim against Mr. Amaral in Portugal, but they haven't proven any damages in that claim IMO, so good luck with that...

I read a business man quote online who donated at the beginning and he said that he won't be donating anymore since new details have come out and he's no longer sure of the circumstances. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more of them too.

ScarletLaw wrote:

Joss wrote:

maebee wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:The McCanns have been offered a legitimate 'out' in that their missing child can be declared 'dead' after 7 years missing, but they haven't taken it. So this is going to drag on and on: more police, more funding in the millions, more tenuous suspects etc. 2017 will be the 10-year anniversary, to the joy of the people of PDL. What's the betting nothing will have changed?

In my opinion.

Which they could have done in May of this year........... but that would have been end of story (money, limelight, fame)

I would hope at this stage of the game that most people have woken up to the McCann charade and have stopped paying them any attention or donating to their fraudation? Wonder how they are generating any income these days? Surely not on the back of their missing child? I know they are probably hoping to win the damages claim against Mr. Amaral in Portugal, but they haven't proven any damages in that claim IMO, so good luck with that...

I read a business man quote online who donated at the beginning and he said that he won't be donating anymore since new details have come out and he's no longer sure of the circumstances. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more of them too.

Yes, most likely the donater been made aware that they have not been looking for a live Madeleine for a long time now and the McCanns have possibly conceded to this fact behind the public face of the media, hence donations to 'search for Madeleine' are no longer required/valid.

IMO of course

jeanmonroe wrote:"this morning i have the extraordinary privilege to speak to the man who was in charge of Operation Grange, which was set up, over three and a half years ago, with unlimited taxpayer funding, established, to find the fiend, who 'abducted'  wee Madeleine McCann"

"Good morning, DCI, or should i say ex DCI?"

"Good morning Lorraine, ex DCI will be fine"

""Did you come close to finding out what happened to wee Maddie?"

"If the Portuguese Police had given us 'samples and fingerprints' of the four 'arguidos' i'm certain we'd have the culprit in custody today"

"How so, Andy? Many i call you Andy?"

"Well Lorraine, the 38 strong, full time, team of elite Maddie cops, had spent extensive days and months  scrutinising the PJ files, the McCann's own PI's files and phone records and had narrowed the probable suspects down to just 4 people.

"Wow, Totes Amazeballs"

" Yep, Lorraine. i'd go further and say that, and this is  an exclusive for you, and say the local schitzo did it"

"I'm impressed, Andy"

"Thankyou. I'm certain that had the PJ illegally given us their 'samples and fingerprints' our people, from Dept Q, would have been able to declare they 'matched' identically, the unidentified  fingerprints and samples my OG team planted ' found' in apartment G5A, the McCann's apartment."

"Just as Dept Q found the 'evidence' that PROVED Barry  George 'killed' Jill Dando"?

"Exactly, Lorraine, the local  'nutter' did it!" You have to remember that my team found that PDL, in May 2007, was absolutely awash with, burglators, peados, gypsies and all manner of unsavoury people, on every street corner! And still is i believe, That's why MW have crossed, the OC at least, off their holiday resort destination list. If only the PJ had played ball, this case would have been done and dusted, over a year ago"

"so, the bumbling, bungling, Portuguese PJ messed up again?"

" i'm afraid so, Lorraine"

" Will you keep in contact with K&G now you've retired?"

"Yes i will, Lorraine. They have kindly invited me to join the board of directors, of their Madeleine Fund, their limited, private,   registered company. It's an extraordinary privilege."

"Well, thankyou Andy, it's been emotional and extraordinary, meeting you"

"Remember Lorraine, if ALL else fails, it's ALWAYS the defenceless local nutter, schitzo, wot dunnit, innit, geddit!"

"Keep 'em peeled"
----------------------------------------------------
The bitterest TRUTH, is better than the sweetest LIE.

Very, very funny. Maybe Barry George is a new suspect-he might've decided to go to PDL on holiday and stayed with the other looking local "weirdo" Robert Murat?????

Tony Bennett wrote:

And at the very same time, was it a very cunning effort to move the time when the abduction took place from the embarrassingly narrow time-frame of 9.11pm to 9.14pm (pre-Crecheman) to anywhere between 9.11pm and 10.00pm (post Crecheman)?

Look back at the programme itself and see just how mightly chuffed they all were that they had extended the time-frame for the abduction from an impossible 3 mintues to a much more flexible 49 minutes.


 
 

      

Precisely, the entire concept of the programme was to turn the McCann's original timeline which made kidnapping a physical impossibility into one that, although highly improbable, was at least possible if one stretched one's wildest imagination. In fact its the type of gambit a defence lawyer would employ in an attempt to shore up their client's defence.

All of which begs the question, why is the chief investigator in a murder enquiry attempting to exonerate his only realistic suspects. It wouldn't be so embarrassing if the McCanns themselves were at least remotely plausible, but they're not, in fact they make the likes of Karen Mathews appear positively believable. One really has to be ultra Rhino skinned to make a case for the McCanns.

Realist wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:

And at the very same time, was it a very cunning effort to move the time when the abduction took place from the embarrassingly narrow time-frame of 9.11pm to 9.14pm (pre-Crecheman) to anywhere between 9.11pm and 10.00pm (post Crecheman)?

Look back at the programme itself and see just how mightly chuffed they all were that they had extended the time-frame for the abduction from an impossible 3 mintues to a much more flexible 49 minutes.


 
 

      

Precisely, the entire concept of the programme was to turn the McCann's original timeline which made kidnapping a physical impossibility into one that, although highly improbable, was at least possible if one stretched one's wildest imagination. In fact its the type of gambit a defence lawyer would employ in an attempt to shore up their client's defence.

All of which begs the question, why is the chief investigator in a murder enquiry attempting to exonerate his only realistic suspects. It wouldn't be so embarrassing if the McCanns themselves were at least remotely plausible, but they're not, in fact they make the likes of Karen Mathews appear positively believable. One really has to be ultra Rhino skinned to make a case for the McCanns.

re the bold bit..... he isn't exactly.... they are not being suspected whatsoever of the murder/concealment of Madeleine, but they are under the magnifying glass for falsifying the timelime (to cover their ar53s) and therefore neglect. However, IMO they will not be charged for neglect due to Gerrys connections with the masons and knowledge he holds about 'something (suspect it's paedophile activity but could be pharmaceutical/gvt related. 

Therefore, the Chief Investigator needs to do 2 things..... nail the killer/ abductor AND make sure it fits a timeline that exonerates the McCanns and Tapas group against any possible neglect charges.

IMO of course ;-)

woodforthetrees wrote:

.

re the bold bit..... he isn't exactly.... they are not being suspected whatsoever of the murder/concealment of Madeleine, but they are under the magnifying glass for falsifying the timelime (to cover their ar53s) and therefore neglect. However, IMO they will not be charged for neglect due to Gerrys connections with the masons and knowledge he holds about 'something (suspect it's paedophile activity but could be pharmaceutical/gvt related. 

Therefore, the Chief Investigator needs to do 2 things..... nail the killer/ abductor AND make sure it fits a timeline that exonerates the McCanns and Tapas group against any possible neglect charges.

IMO of course ;-)

The problem with your synopsis is of course, that Operation Grange is purporting to be a murder enquiry, not a child neglect investigation. It isn't and never was an enquiry set up to investigate child neglect, so why would its chief investigator seek to exonerate various people for child neglect when his remit didn't relate to investigating them for the aforementioned in the first instance.

As for 'Freemason connections,' 'paedophile activity' and 'pharmacuetical/gvt.' related extracurricular, I think that's best left to the Hollywood film directors wearing tin foil hats if they ever decide to make a B rated movie of this charade.

As for 'Freemason connections,' 'paedophile activity' and 'pharmacuetical/gvt.' related extracurricular, I think that's best left to the Hollywood film directors wearing tin foil hats if they ever decide to make a B rated movie of this charade.


------

Why have the McCanns enjoyed such very high level protection if it was *just* a case of covering up an accident, say? There is obviously a 'wider agenda' as Gerry himself told the world.

Plus 'paedophile activity' was suggested by the McCanns themselves. Frequently. Kate writes about it in her book. And there are a great many red flags around this whole area.

Jrob said "paedophile activity was suggested by the McCanns themselves''


Yes and pointed to by Dr K. Gaspar's statement also . If what she heard were correct the child's own father and one of his holiday companions are implicated.   There are also the 'odd' photos taken by McCann's friend Jon Corner and the child protection entry filed that apparently had no actual report contained within it, allegedly.


  People want to stick their head in the sand about child abuse but it is much more common than people think. Children are usually abused or killed by someone they know too....so that angle is not tin foil hat territory at all!      

ChippyM wrote:Jrob said "paedophile activity was suggested by the McCanns themselves''


Yes and pointed to by Dr K. Gaspar's statement also . If what she heard were correct the child's own father and one of his holiday companions are implicated.   There are also the 'odd' photos taken by McCann's friend Jon Corner and the child protection entry filed that apparently had no actual report contained within it, allegedly.


  People want to stick their head in the sand about child abuse but it is much more common than people think. Children are usually abused or killed by someone they know too....so that angle is not tin foil hat territory at all!      

I agree Chippy.  Neither is 'govt/pharma' tin foil hat territory!  Gerry was on the subcommittee of COMARE, fgs, and goodness knows what pharma deals all those NHS doctors were affiliated with also. We already know Gerry's bro worked for AstraZeneca.

j.rob wrote:

Plus 'paedophile activity' was suggested by the McCanns themselves. Frequently. Kate writes about it in her book. And there are a great many red flags around this whole area.

Of course it was, what other reason could a kidnapper have for abducting a 3 yr. old child when there was a distinct lack of a ransom demand. They had to provide a motive to substantiate their story and the paedophile abductor angle was the only one available to them.

As I've previously stated, all these wild and preposterous conspiracy theories achieve is to help the McCanns dismiss their critics as a bunch of loons with vivid imaginations.

Realist wrote:

j.rob wrote:

Plus 'paedophile activity' was suggested by the McCanns themselves. Frequently. Kate writes about it in her book. And there are a great many red flags around this whole area.

Of course it was, what other reason could a kidnapper have for abducting a 3 yr. old child when there was a distinct lack of a ransom demand. They had to provide a motive to substantiate their story and the paedophile abductor angle was the only one available to them.

As I've previously stated, all these wild and preposterous conspiracy theories achieve is to help the McCanns dismiss their critics as a bunch of loons with vivid imaginations.

Oh don't be ridiculous. I couldn't care less what the McScams think. They are both completely bonkers, imo. He's a psychopath and she is narcissistic at least. I doubt anyone gives a fig what the Mcs think. They are the lunatics. But worse than that because a loon with a crazy theory is not dangerous.

Whereas a bunch of crooks, psychopaths, narcissists in positions of power and responsibility, with support from media/the state are dangerous.

The Mcs should carry a Government health warning. 

Nice try though!

Realist wrote:

woodforthetrees wrote:

.

re the bold bit..... he isn't exactly.... they are not being suspected whatsoever of the murder/concealment of Madeleine, but they are under the magnifying glass for falsifying the timelime (to cover their ar53s) and therefore neglect. However, IMO they will not be charged for neglect due to Gerrys connections with the masons and knowledge he holds about 'something (suspect it's paedophile activity but could be pharmaceutical/gvt related. 

Therefore, the Chief Investigator needs to do 2 things..... nail the killer/ abductor AND make sure it fits a timeline that exonerates the McCanns and Tapas group against any possible neglect charges.

IMO of course ;-)

The problem with your synopsis is of course, that Operation Grange is purporting to be a murder enquiry, not a child neglect investigation. It isn't and never was an enquiry set up to investigate child neglect, so why would its chief investigator seek to exonerate various people for child neglect when his remit didn't relate to investigating them for the aforementioned in the first instance.

As for 'Freemason connections,' 'paedophile activity' and 'pharmacuetical/gvt.' related extracurricular, I think that's best left to the Hollywood film directors wearing tin foil hats if they ever decide to make a B rated movie of this charade.

Realist...please read what I have written....

The McCanns have been exonerated for any involvement in the murder...because they are looking for a lone paedo.

Now, the problem SY have is that even if they do find this supposed lone paedo they are looking for, it poses a problem for the McCanns as it blows their timeline out of the water! Hence puts them under the spotlight for neglect. However!!..... Gerry is VERY well protected so no charges will be brought for that, which means.....

SY have to make the window of opportunity wider to justify (enough anyway) the child checking timeline. Paedo nicked, Tapas 9 cleared, SY heroes.

Also, don't forget, SY are interested in capturing a murderer but other agencies are interested in the twins welfare and potential neglect charges regarding Madeleine, so it all has to fit nicely

And the Mc loony conspiracy theory that Madeleine was abducted is just ridiculous. There is no evidence for it apart from anything. But you know that!

Ha! Pathetic!

Now just crawl back under your little bridge, realist! You know you want to. And don't be afraid of the billy goats!

woodforthetreesRealist...please read what I have written.... wrote:
The McCanns have been exonerated for any involvement in the murder...because they are looking for a lone paedo.

Now, the problem SY have is that even if they do find this supposed lone paedo they are looking for, it poses a problem for the McCanns as it blows their timeline out of the water! Hence puts them under the spotlight for neglect. However!!..... Gerry is VERY well protected so no charges will be brought for that, which means.....

SY have to make the window of opportunity wider to justify (enough anyway) the child checking timeline. Paedo nicked, Tapas 9 cleared, SY heroes.

Also, don't forget, SY are interested in capturing a murderer but other agencies are interested in the twins welfare and potential neglect charges regarding Madeleine, so it all has to fit nicely

There can't be a whitewash WFTT, SY have rubbished Tanners sighting they could have used that as the abductor.

SY have not been helpful to the Mccanns this last year they've also said Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive, so what burglar abducts dead bodies?

And if they believe the dogs evidence in 5a they also have to believe what was found in the hire car too.

woodforthetrees wrote:

SY have to make the window of opportunity wider to justify (enough anyway) the child checking timeline. Paedo nicked, Tapas 9 cleared, SY heroes.

You're obviously missing the point of what both I and Tony Bennet are attempting to convey, which is of course, that the time lines were altered for the specific purpose of making a third party kidnapping physically possible and nothing whatsoever to do with child neglect.

The time lines had to be changed, because if the original ones made kidnapping a physical impossibility, how could Operation Grange proceed to pursue an independent kidnapper whilst eliminating the McCanns if there couldn't possibly have been a kidnapping in the time originally provided.

No authority is interested in child neglect vis a vis the McCanns or their friends, ask Tony, he knows from first hand experience.

j.rob wrote:Now just crawl back under your little bridge, realist! You know you want to. And don't be afraid of the billy goats!

Quad erat demonstrandum.

Realist wrote:

j.rob wrote:Now just crawl back under your little bridge, realist! You know you want to. And don't be afraid of the billy goats!

Quad erat demonstrandum.

You are Harry Potter and I claim my £5 

Dear oh dear, Realist still not getting it.

margaret wrote:

woodforthetreesRealist...please read what I have written.... wrote:
The McCanns have been exonerated for any involvement in the murder...because they are looking for a lone paedo.

Now, the problem SY have is that even if they do find this supposed lone paedo they are looking for, it poses a problem for the McCanns as it blows their timeline out of the water! Hence puts them under the spotlight for neglect. However!!..... Gerry is VERY well protected so no charges will be brought for that, which means.....

SY have to make the window of opportunity wider to justify (enough anyway) the child checking timeline. Paedo nicked, Tapas 9 cleared, SY heroes.

Also, don't forget, SY are interested in capturing a murderer but other agencies are interested in the twins welfare and potential neglect charges regarding Madeleine, so it all has to fit nicely

There can't be a whitewash WFTT, SY have rubbished Tanners sighting they could have used that as the abductor.

SY have not been helpful to the Mccanns this last year they've also said Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive, so what burglar abducts dead bodies?

And if they believe the dogs evidence in 5a they also have to believe what was found in the hire car too.

Few quick responses to this:

Regardless of whether Tannerman or Smithman are genuine, neither are valid as the description are lame and the witnesses flaky. Neither would stand up in court at all, therefore neither are worth a wink.

So, even if behind closed doors SY believe tanner man is genuine, they can get rid of it to give the MCCanns the all clear for neglect, hence Smithman and the new, bigger 'window of opportunity'

Regards to the 'abducting burglar'... This is media tosh, again...they are looking for a paedo acting alone who performed an act and then removed the body. (Hence the cadaver and new larger/later window).

Regards the hire car, this is yet to be answered. Problem they have is that cadaver scent was detected but that does not confirm it is Madeleine. As such, without further DNA tests to confirm the samples of Madeleine were from a deceased girl, this too would cast reasonable doubt on that evidence as it's inconclusive.

woodforthetrees wrote:

margaret wrote:

woodforthetreesRealist...please read what I have written.... wrote:
The McCanns have been exonerated for any involvement in the murder...because they are looking for a lone paedo.

Now, the problem SY have is that even if they do find this supposed lone paedo they are looking for, it poses a problem for the McCanns as it blows their timeline out of the water! Hence puts them under the spotlight for neglect. However!!..... Gerry is VERY well protected so no charges will be brought for that, which means.....

SY have to make the window of opportunity wider to justify (enough anyway) the child checking timeline. Paedo nicked, Tapas 9 cleared, SY heroes.

Also, don't forget, SY are interested in capturing a murderer but other agencies are interested in the twins welfare and potential neglect charges regarding Madeleine, so it all has to fit nicely

There can't be a whitewash WFTT, SY have rubbished Tanners sighting they could have used that as the abductor.

SY have not been helpful to the Mccanns this last year they've also said Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive, so what burglar abducts dead bodies?

And if they believe the dogs evidence in 5a they also have to believe what was found in the hire car too.

Few quick responses to this:

Regardless of whether Tannerman or Smithman are genuine, neither are valid as the description are lame and the witnesses flaky. Neither would stand up in court at all, therefore neither are worth a wink.

So, even if behind closed doors SY believe tanner man is genuine, they can get rid of it to give the MCCanns the all clear for neglect, hence Smithman and the new, bigger 'window of opportunity'

Regards to the 'abducting burglar'... This is media tosh, again...they are looking for a paedo acting alone who performed an act and then removed the body. (Hence the cadaver and new larger/later window).

Regards the hire car, this is yet to be answered. Problem they have is that cadaver scent was detected but that does not confirm it is Madeleine. As such, without further DNA tests to confirm the samples of Madeleine were from a deceased girl, this too would cast reasonable doubt on that evidence as it's inconclusive.

 There was more than just cadaver scent in the hire car i believe. There was quite a bit of hair recovered from the trunk of the vehicle as well.


1. All five markers in a sample found under the tiles, behind the sofa (exactly where Eddie, the EVRD [Cadaver] dog and Keela, the CSI [Human Blood] dog, both indicated), are 100% compatible with Madeleine's DNA profile

2. Fifteen of the markers, in a sample found under the luggage liner of the McCann's Scenic (hired 24 days later), are 100% compatible with Madeleine's DNA profile
11. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the McCann's wardrobe in 5A

12. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted at the back of the sofa in 5A

13. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the veranda outside the parent?s bedroom

14. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the flower bed at the back of 5A

15. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a white sleeveless top belonging to Kate

16. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to checked trousers belonging to Kate

17. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a child?s red T shirt

18. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to a toy belonging to Madeleine

19. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the key of the McCann's rental Scenic car


20. Eddie, the EVRD (Cadaver) dog, positively alerted to the passenger's door of the McCann's Renault Scenic

21. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted at the back of the sofa in 5A (exact same spot as alerted to by the EVRD dog)

22. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted to the key of the McCann's hire car

23. Keela, the CSI (Human Blood) dog, positively alerted to the interior of the hire vehicle's boot

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margaret wrote:

There can't be a whitewash WFTT, SY have rubbished Tanner's sighting they could have used that as the abductor.

There is no easy way of saying this, margaret, but you have completely missed the whole point of the BBC Crimewatch McCann Show.

Far from 'rubbishing' the Tanner sighting, DCI Redwood, supported by the BBC - fully endorsed it - and with brass knobs on.

Redwood siad he was 'almost certain' that Crecheman was Tannerman.

Just as Jane Tanner said, a lone man was out walking with his child at 9.15pm on 3 May.

Just as Jane Tanner said, he was carrying a child.

Just as Jane Tanner said, he was carrying a young blonde girl.

Just as Jane Tanner said, the young blonde girl was wearing pyjamas. 

Just as Jane Tanner said, the girl's pyjamas - which he had faithfully kept for six years - were similar in colour to Jane Tanner's description.

Just as Jane Tanner said, the man was wearing a dark-coloured jacket. Apparently he wore it all week.  

Just as Jane Tanner said, the man was wearing light-coloured trousers, just as he had been all week.

Just as Jane Tanner said, the man was carrying his daughter not on his shoulder (the normal way) but stretched out in front of him on his forearms. 

Redwood even helpfully showed us a purported photo of the man, just to emphasise the similarity - comparing it with Melissa Little's sketch, produced in late October 2007 when it was of no pracatical use whatsoever, except to promote the abduction claim.

And at the same time, like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, Redwood produced two e-fits of different-looking men, which he had been given by the McCanns in spring 2011 and saved up for this 'revelation moment'.

'These two blokes are the same man!', he exulted.

'The Smiths saw him at 10.00pm that night', he beamed.

'And that means that the time-frame for the abduction has been changed from 9.11pm to 9.14pm to 9.11pm to 10.00pm', he boasted.

'Now we have 49 minutes to play with, instead of 3', he said triumphantly.


No, margaret, he didn't rubbish Tannerman at all.

On the contrary, he confirmed just how observant she had been in the dark.

Tannerman was genuine all right.

But so was Smithman, conveniently kept on the back burner by everyone involved for five years. but now promoted proudly to the front burner