James Nesbitt: "The Missing is a thriller, it isn't about the Madeleine McCann case"

It was this series that pushed me to join this forum, but I have been worried about the use that I believe is being made of televsion and other media to manipulate people for some time.

First, I am not surprised that the ending effectively went nowhere.  All possibilities were still on the table.

The mayor was a paedophile friend of Ian Garrett and may have taken the injured boy. 
He could be alive and well in Russia.
He may have been accidentally killed.
He may have been murdered.

I was not surprised because I had a little look at who the writers were: a couple of brothers who seem to have failed to come up with a hit series in spite of having a lot of money and acting talent thrown at them.  They wrote the horrific "Full English" for anyone who may have had the misfortune to sit through two minutes like we did.  They have aimed at the "yoof" market and everything has flopped - until now.  They say they were inspired by the American series Lost which coincidentally was the series that first flagged up to me a sea change in tv drama. 

It deliberately goes nowhere. There is a beginning, but no middle or end.  It is replete with inconsistencies, sub plots that add nothing and red herrings.  It invites analysis but there is nothing to analyse.  It blurs the edges between news and drama.  I have looked on Amazon at Kate M's book Madeleine and people seriously put things like " a great read!"  "My mam will love this." People become unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction. It milks base emotion whilst rendering them almost sociopathic.

In the mean time people are programmed to expect life to be a continual drama of which we can make no sense.  Government enquiries are interminable, people are never brought to account and things are rarely brought to resolution.

I have been horrified at the print media's involvement. They have almost uniformly talked up a below average drama to the major televisual event of the year. The BBC website even had links to follow to look deeper into Vincent's treatment etc.  It reminded me of the clubs you used to be able to join for your favourite children's book - like the Famous Five for those old enough to remember. We'll all be going round wearing The Missing badges next.

Eight million people followed this series and two failed writers are now in business writing for the "establishment."  George Orwell must be convulsing in his grave.

Judging by the trailer (girl goes missing from British barracks in Germany - note the 1 ton land rover from the 70s/80s and "Eintritt verboten" (entry forbidden) sign, Series 2 will borrow heavily from Katrice Lee's disappearance and postulate what happens if she is found.

In real life there was a call to police to look for Katrice in France; this is perhaps where Tceky Karyo's character comes in.

doircann wrote:It was this series that pushed me to join this forum, but I have been worried about the use that I believe is being made of televsion and other media to manipulate people for some time.

First, I am not surprised that the ending effectively went nowhere.  All possibilities were still on the table.

The mayor was a paedophile friend of Ian Garrett and may have taken the injured boy. 
He could be alive and well in Russia.
He may have been accidentally killed.
He may have been murdered.

I was not surprised because I had a little look at who the writers were: a couple of brothers who seem to have failed to come up with a hit series in spite of having a lot of money and acting talent thrown at them.  They wrote the horrific "Full English" for anyone who may have had the misfortune to sit through two minutes like we did.  They have aimed at the "yoof" market and everything has flopped - until now.  They say they were inspired by the American series Lost which coincidentally was the series that first flagged up to me a sea change in tv drama. 

It deliberately goes nowhere. There is a beginning, but no middle or end.  It is replete with inconsistencies, sub plots that add nothing and red herrings.  It invites analysis but there is nothing to analyse.  It blurs the edges between news and drama.  I have looked on Amazon at Kate M's book Madeleine and people seriously put things like " a great read!"  "My mam will love this." People become unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction. It milks base emotion whilst rendering them almost sociopathic.

In the mean time people are programmed to expect life to be a continual drama of which we can make no sense.  Government enquiries are interminable, people are never brought to account and things are rarely brought to resolution.

I have been horrified at the print media's involvement. They have almost uniformly talked up a below average drama to the major televisual event of the year. The BBC website even had links to follow to look deeper into Vincent's treatment etc.  It reminded me of the clubs you used to be able to join for your favourite children's book - like the Famous Five for those old enough to remember. We'll all be going round wearing The Missing badges next.

Eight million people followed this series and two failed writers are now in business writing for the "establishment."  George Orwell must be convulsing in his grave.

Excellent post IMO, especially :-

"It milks base emotion whilst rendering them almost sociopathic.

In the mean time people are programmed to expect life to be a continual drama of which we can make no sense.  Government enquiries are interminable, people are never brought to account and things are rarely brought to resolution."



I had a feeling this series would go nowhere.  The fact that James Nesbitt was in it warned me it will be overly emotional and complicated.

Oxtab wrote:Judging by the trailer (girl goes missing from British barracks in Germany - note the 1 ton land rover from the 70s/80s and "Eintritt verboten" (entry forbidden) sign, Series 2 will borrow heavily from Katrice Lee's disappearance and postulate what happens if she is found.

In real life there was a call to police to look for Katrice in France; this is perhaps where Tceky Karyo's character comes in.

I've been waiting for someone to bring up Katrice Lee.

I find it interesting that in the UK news at the moment there is the beginnings of a campaign for Ben Needham....and today an article on April Jones' headstone finally being laid. There has not been a mention of Katrice Lee that I can recall in the news...and yet her mother and sister appeared, parked on a tv sofa alongside Kate and Gerry with a senior UK police officer...not a single mention since that I can recall. I guess Katrice Lee doesn't matter or her disappearance is waiting in the wings for some shitty PR stunt to bring it out into the open to cover something or other..... because this family has been crapped on from a great height imo.

doircann wrote:It was this series that pushed me to join this forum, but I have been worried about the use that I believe is being made of televsion and other media to manipulate people for some time.

First, I am not surprised that the ending effectively went nowhere.  All possibilities were still on the table.

The mayor was a paedophile friend of Ian Garrett and may have taken the injured boy. 
He could be alive and well in Russia.
He may have been accidentally killed.
He may have been murdered.

I was not surprised because I had a little look at who the writers were: a couple of brothers who seem to have failed to come up with a hit series in spite of having a lot of money and acting talent thrown at them.  They wrote the horrific "Full English" for anyone who may have had the misfortune to sit through two minutes like we did.  They have aimed at the "yoof" market and everything has flopped - until now.  They say they were inspired by the American series Lost which coincidentally was the series that first flagged up to me a sea change in tv drama. 

It deliberately goes nowhere. There is a beginning, but no middle or end.  It is replete with inconsistencies, sub plots that add nothing and red herrings.  It invites analysis but there is nothing to analyse.  It blurs the edges between news and drama.  I have looked on Amazon at Kate M's book Madeleine and people seriously put things like " a great read!"  "My mam will love this." People become unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction. It milks base emotion whilst rendering them almost sociopathic.

In the mean time people are programmed to expect life to be a continual drama of which we can make no sense.  Government enquiries are interminable, people are never brought to account and things are rarely brought to resolution.

I have been horrified at the print media's involvement. They have almost uniformly talked up a below average drama to the major televisual event of the year. The BBC website even had links to follow to look deeper into Vincent's treatment etc.  It reminded me of the clubs you used to be able to join for your favourite children's book - like the Famous Five for those old enough to remember. We'll all be going round wearing The Missing badges next.

Eight million people followed this series and two failed writers are now in business writing for the "establishment."  George Orwell must be convulsing in his grave.

I LOVE YOU, whoever you are lol.

I HATED IT. I watched it for some bizarre reason because I wanted to know what all the excitement was about. It was dire. To and fro, timelines made me feel sick, i lost the plot in the end.

I HATED Tony I thought he was an evil and brutal man. I loved Vincent, because even though he knew he had a sickness he tried his hardest to make himself well.

It was the worse thing I have ever watched and left me feeling like someone had given me a million dollars but forgot to tell me where it was kept.

There was too many things left answered.

I cannot understand why so many people enjoyed it...........The took the McCann case and worked around that, now they are doing the same with missing girl in Germany.

I shant be watching that......

@columbostogeys - slightly taken aback by your declaration of love, but if we keep it open and above board there should be no real risk of impropriety!

I had not come across the Katrice Lee case and having read up a little about it, I see how they wove elements of that case into the prog.  It is beyond sad, and I must say that the military element, perhaps unfairly, gives me the willies. It turns out that the man (just after a cursory poke around so I may be wrong)who was head of the military hospital where Katrice was born, at the time she was born, ended up being one of the Queen's surgeons.  This means nothing really and is perhaps no more weird than the fact that the man who gave GM his alibi is the Producer of My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding who just happened to be at PdeL with his wife who I think used to have something to do with the BBCs Crimewatch prog and who went on to write a book about child abuse by the British elite in 19th c London. Phew!  Could you even begin to make this stuff up?

I am seriously beginning to wish that i had not watched Richard Hall's doc because once you know this stuff you can't unknow it.

Just one last thought before I go to lie down in a darkened room. I suspect that it is not the McCann's that have some strange influence over people in power but the other way round. I am not convinced by the whole Gaspar thing. It strikes me that one of the best ways of controllling someone is to hold the threat of an accusation of paedophilia over them.  This could be nonsense of course and just a symptom of brain fever induced by the alternative reality of this case.

I find it interesting that in the UK news at the moment there is the beginnings of a campaign for Ben Needham....

Yeah...begrudgingly, I'll bet!

In my opinion.

doircann wrote:@columbostogeys - slightly taken aback by your declaration of love, but if we keep it open and above board there should be no real risk of impropriety!

I had not come across the Katrice Lee case and having read up a little about it, I see how they wove elements of that case into the prog.  It is beyond sad, and I must say that the military element, perhaps unfairly, gives me the willies. It turns out that the man (just after a cursory poke around so I may be wrong)who was head of the military hospital where Katrice was born, at the time she was born, ended up being one of the Queen's surgeons.  This means nothing really and is perhaps no more weird than the fact that the man who gave GM his alibi is the Producer of My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding who just happened to be at PdeL with his wife who I think used to have something to do with the BBCs Crimewatch prog and who went on to write a book about child abuse by the British elite in 19th c London. Phew!  Could you even begin to make this stuff up?

I am seriously beginning to wish that i had not watched Richard Hall's doc because once you know this stuff you can't unknow it.

Just one last thought before I go to lie down in a darkened room. I suspect that it is not the McCann's that have some strange influence over people in power but the other way round. I am not convinced by the whole Gaspar thing. It strikes me that one of the best ways of controllling someone is to hold the threat of an accusation of paedophilia over them.  This could be nonsense of course and just a symptom of brain fever induced by the alternative reality of this case.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Gill Dando's surgeon fiance got a royal appointment.

The rationalist in me says "cock up before conspiracy."

Which fits with GA's conclusions.

What I've never understood is (i) why was there high level interest in the case and (ii) why the McCs have continued to push things forward if they had involvement? Surely that just risks eventual discovery.

IMO

@oxtab  Yes Jill Dando's fiancé, Alan Farthing, is gynaecologist to the Queen and oversaw the birth of Prince George. Coinidentally he also specialises in laprascopic surgery as does Dr David Payne albeit in a different specialism.  The two points that you highlight have also puzzled me but I think that the key may be to see things from the pt of view of those people on high who have very different concerns to us lower mortals.  I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories but logic says that people will come together around issues that they perceive to be in their own personal interest.  This would go some way to account for the bizzare cast of characters that congregated in PdeL both just before and just after Madeleine went missing. 

This does not mean that all of these characters shared exactly the same interests and that conflicts do not arise between those whose objectives are hidden from us.

What might these objectives be?  If I had power beyond measure and wealth beyond the dreams of avarice and a playground in which to indulge my every desire what would be the one remaining power that would render me as impotent as a beggar?

When I was a teenager I went to the Dachau concentration camp and saw the photographs of human beings who had been subjected to de-pressuarisation experiments complete with the tops of their heads sawn off so that their brains could be examined. It is on open record that American scientists put radio active material in the milk of mentally handicapped children. Scientific rationalism is about to take us into uncharted territories.  Whatever human beings can imagine they (or someone) will do. Often we hide this from ourselves because we ourselves would do no harm.

doircann wrote:@oxtab  Yes Jill Dando's fiancé, Alan Farthing, is gynaecologist to the Queen and oversaw the birth of Prince George. Coinidentally he also specialises in laprascopic surgery as does Dr David Payne albeit in a different specialism.  The two points that you highlight have also puzzled me but I think that the key may be to see things from the pt of view of those people on high who have very different concerns to us lower mortals.  I do not subscribe to conspiracy theories but logic says that people will come together around issues that they perceive to be in their own personal interest.  This would go some way to account for the bizzare cast of characters that congregated in PdeL both just before and just after Madeleine went missing. 

This does not mean that all of these characters shared exactly the same interests and that conflicts do not arise between those whose objectives are hidden from us.

What might these objectives be?  If I had power beyond measure and wealth beyond the dreams of avarice and a playground in which to indulge my every desire what would be the one remaining power that would render me as impotent as a beggar?

When I was a teenager I went to the Dachau concentration camp and saw the photographs of human beings who had been subjected to de-pressuarisation experiments complete with the tops of their heads sawn off so that their brains could be examined. It is on open record that American scientists put radio active material in the milk of mentally handicapped children. Scientific rationalism is about to take us into uncharted territories.  Whatever human beings can imagine they (or someone) will do. Often we hide this from ourselves because we ourselves would do no harm.

The fear of losing it.

doircann wrote:@columbostogeys - slightly taken aback by your declaration of love, but if we keep it open and above board there should be no real risk of impropriety! Darn it, oh well, I shall have to adore you from a far lol.........

Actually leading onto another of your posts, why do the McCanns insist on dragging this forward constantly.....I actually have sat and thought about it.

I remember way back in my memory trying to cook toffee on the stove and burning the pan horrendously and the stench literally went around the house lol.

I don't know why or how but I remember legging it out of there the house that is because i knew i was in trouble.

I cant think where my mum was or why i did it but that doesn't matter.......when i came back into the house and was questioned as to who had done this thing, I remember quite distinctively standing my ground and saying IT WASNT ME, it wasnt me.....I never did it...and I had convinced myself I hadn't done it.....lol.

I know a silly example but i didn't want to get into trouble and I didn't want to tarnish my good books with my dad who I adored, and I didn't want him to think badly of me lol....Why i remember all of this I have no idea but it has always stuck in my head (toffee ha ha).

Anyway babbling on, I dont think there was ever any intention of harm if there was harm by family, I think it was something that happened in a moment of uncontrolled madness.......the guilt is all consuming and one has to keep saying I never did it, because one doesn't want to loose face, or ones life as it is known...and not only that, one doesn't want people to think they could possibly be human and loose control.....so they keep going because what else can they do.....

Once you start the lie, it is very hard to actually stop it and it soon rolls out of control and you kind of just let it and go along with the ride. I think its almost like being a euphoric drug induced trance, you just have no feelings and you can therefore go along with it all. No one is going to suspect you anyway not in your profession, so after the first few days you realise its in your best interest to keep up the lie and keep it going as isnt that what normal people would do if they were innocent and after all you rationalise it because it was all unintentional in the first place?

I personally dont think for one moment friends were involved, yes they may have been but totally unintentionally as you just would not believe your friend could do such a thing and because of that you would want to protect them too.

sorry if all that sounds a bit garbled and babbling but I think i know what i mean lol.... There are so many cases of death by accident and a cover up, most of them come to conclusions, but I suppose when you have some sort of standing in the community and have friends in high places, perhaps its easier to keep it all covered up I dont know, its all just so odd.

Non of the scenarios make sense to me. Its like the child simply never existed........Sadly even children taken from beds by pedophiles are usually found not far away deceased or simply traumatised....

@colombostogeys.  Hello.  I absolutley share your confusion.  This case is like a huge page of join-the-dots. I have joined some of the dots from my perspective and made an elephant.  Others have made a tiger.  The truth is probably something like a tigephant! 

I took no notice of this case for years because even though I found the McCanns odd their dogged determination to find Madeleine seemed completely normal. If it was my child, I wouldn't let it drop.  I was gobsmacked when I saw Richard Hall's doc by several things that I hadn't realised.  As Oxtab pointed out the high level involvement in the case doesn't make any sense.  But if the McCanns are guilty of what people say they are guilty of then their determination to stay in the public eye also makes no sense.  And if it doesn't make sense, its not true as Judge Judy says!

Their behaviour often seems odd and out of context.  This either means that they are complete lunatics or there is something about the context that we are in the dark about. So, then you have to ask yourself how you would adjust the context to make more sense of their behaviour.  I have sort of mentally done this (although I have to say that I can't account to myself for all of their behaviour)and come to a set of tentative "conclusions".  I don't claim to be right. I hope I am wrong. I am absolutely guaranteed to be wrong on certain points and there are huge gaps I can't fill in.

I was particularly sideswiped by the private dectectives that don't detect, the failure to take messages off the phone line and the involvement of groups like Control Risks who seem proud to carry an endorsement from Halliburton on their web site. You may as well provide Satan as a character reference.  This was obviously much bigger than a simple missing child case, sad though that is.

There is a difficulty in knowing what is real because the red Herring has been a very definite tactic in Madeleine's disappearance. I too have wondered if she even existed.  But if we take the statement of Dr David Payne at face value they were expecting something to happen but did not know what. This is a group of people bound together by more than just holidaying together and the secret services don't get involved to shield swinging doctors from public view as far as I know! Kate knew immediately that Madeleine had been taken.  People are quick to dismiss this as a lie, but what if it were true? The question would be - how did she know? Then you need to start thinking of a different context that would make this statement true.

I was also struck by how PdL itself is like a character in this story. It (and maybe the Algarve generally) seems to have been a very modest and unassuming but magnetic location for some very well-connected people for quite a few years prior to Madeleine's disappearance: a veritable out of the way  place in the sun for the British Establishment. According to gerry, they were not there to enjoy themselves - so why were they there? If they won't let this drop then what might push them to keep going? I don't find money or love of the limelight convincing answers.

I have had thought some uncomfortable thoughts about this case and wouldn't really want to share them because even I think that I might just be off my rocker!

There it wasn't you that babbled - it was me!  That is my first ever emoticon - got two by mistake!

I haven`t seen the word "context" come up but it is very apt in this case. There is some key ingredient which is "hidden". Perhaps it is known to OG and it is an official secret so they cannot explain why the T9 have their current non suspect status because that would betray it.

Doircann - a thought provoking and very thoughtful post and I concur with pretty much everything youve said.

There is a thread that speculates about a conference of which Gerry was an attendee, along with some very high up and attention shy others. This is the justification for the clean up.

What fo you believe?

doircann wrote:
I have had thought some uncomfortable thoughts about this case and wouldn't really want to share them because even I think that I might just be off my rocker!

There it wasn't you that babbled - it was me!  That is my first ever emoticon - got two by mistake!

Hi hun, yes me too i have had uncomfortable thoughts myself. Actually although i followed the case from the beginning the first second it was on Sky T.V. I thought wow something is so fishy about this.......and that was in the first 5 minutes......but overtime I got so confused with all of it, I started to doubt my own brain, until the day of the dogs......then I changed my mind and came off the fence..and started listening and reading again. (By the way i got all the other cases right, cant remember all the names now just from the first few minutes)...(sorry MS brain its not working today lol).

Several things for me make no sense.......

OK bear with me i do ramble a bit lol.

You loose a treasured item, say a cigarette lighter given to you for your 21st Birthday and engraved it was given to you by your grandmother who passed away, and it was a real treasure for you. OK so you advertise the loss of this cigarette lighter in the local newspapers....do you give out the information that this lighter was engraved and with what? Or do you leave that out so when people ring you, you can ask them is the item engraved and eliminate all those that are not etc.....so perhaps you can offer them the reward.

Bear with me, i am getting there lol.

So why would you tell all the world that your beloved and treasured daughter is missing and describe the one fault which is rare and only the parents knew about it? Why would you do that? Surely by doing that you put the child in danger as then she becomes too hot to handle......so thats the first odd thing. If you had abducted her and then realised she has a fault noticeable you would get rid of her fast wouldnt you?

Then you hire the most incompetent detective agency ( i use the term loosely), paid out of funds donated.....who turn it all into a farce, so much so that peoples eyes roll up to the sky when the name of the child is mentioned....oh not her again......its like they didnt want to find her...send out confusion, almost like they were trying to change the crime scene in order for her never to be found....because well basically she wasnt going to be found but by doing all that you look good as though you are actually doing something....jeez get confused writing it lol...

The day i fell over laughing was the day I saw cuddle cat being cuddled by the Metodo 3 employees jeez.....

Then another thing that totally confused me. You loose your most treasured possession your child, then you go off all over the world, leaving the surviving children......whilst you did so. Would any parent behave that way? I am damn sure I would never have left my kids again.......I dont get it honestly.....

Then the reaction to the dogs.....If i had nothing to hide and the dogs which were or had never been wrong indicated death etc in the apartment my child had been in, I would be in bits, and would want the police to try and find out what had happened I would never have ridiculed their findings I still cant get over Gerry saying to reporter "ask the dogs Sandra!..... jeez what a thing to say, then to try and make out with the Zappa case in the states the dogs do get it wrong.........but they didnt then did they as a few years later he admitted he killed his wife, but note the McCanns never mentioned that.

Does all this make them guilty hardly, but it does all make me think something very odd is going on......sorry tired, and confused......I dont think we will ever know the truth sadly ever.....I think she was spirited away from the apartment in the morning when the family moved out to let the forensics in.....and will never be found again ever......bless her little heart....

columbostogeys wrote:

Then the reaction to the dogs.....If i had nothing to hide and the dogs which were or had never been wrong indicated death etc in the apartment my child had been in, I would be in bits, and would want the police to try and find out what had happened I would never have ridiculed their findings I still cant get over Gerry saying to reporter "ask the dogs Sandra!..... jeez what a thing to say, then to try and make out with the Zappa case in the states the dogs do get it wrong.........but they didnt then did they as a few years later he admitted he killed his wife, but note the McCanns never mentioned that.

Their reaction to the dogs evidence is a HUGE red flag in my opinion.

If you had absolutely no idea what happened to your child and a highly trained and very accurate cadaver dog indicated trace of a cadaver  in your apartment (and only your apartment) , you would be beyond devastated. If a highly trained and very accurate blood dog independently indicated blood at exactly the same spot and it turned out to have DNA markers in common with Madeleine, you would be absolutely distraught.

If you had absolutely no idea what happened to your child and a highly trained and very accurate cadaver dog indicated trace of cadaver on your family clothes (and only your clothes) , or in your hire car (and only your hire car) , you would be bewildered as to how it got there. If a highly trained and very accurate  blood dog independently indicated blood/body fluids  in your hire car (and only your hire car)  and body fluids were found  that had DNA markers in common with Madeleine, you would at the very least try to think of a rational explanation.  You  would seriously look at who had the hire car around the time she went missing. She could have been transported in that car by someone else. It's a low probability, but it is possible.  Maybe it was  secondary transfer from something in the apartment.  You might even think someone had planted evidence and that you were being framed.

If you really did not have a clue what happened to your beautiful baby ,  why would you dismiss such very important evidence. Why would you  LIE endlessly to everyone who would listen about how unreliable the dogs are.  Why would you bring this up AGAIN at the libel trial, especially after the dogs have been proven to be pretty much 100% accurate.   Why would you research compounds that might have confused the dogs and inject this information into the story?   It really makes no sense, IF you REALLY didn't know what happened.

On the other hand, if you know exactly  what happened. If you know how the cadaver and blood and body fluids got there. If you were complicit and you are trying to save your own A***s,  it makes a lot of sense.

Obviously IMO

FH wrote:

columbostogeys wrote:

Then the reaction to the dogs.....If i had nothing to hide and the dogs which were or had never been wrong indicated death etc in the apartment my child had been in, I would be in bits, and would want the police to try and find out what had happened I would never have ridiculed their findings I still cant get over Gerry saying to reporter "ask the dogs Sandra!..... jeez what a thing to say, then to try and make out with the Zappa case in the states the dogs do get it wrong.........but they didnt then did they as a few years later he admitted he killed his wife, but note the McCanns never mentioned that.

Their reaction to the dogs evidence is a HUGE red flag in my opinion.

If you had absolutely no idea what happened to your child and a highly trained and very accurate cadaver dog indicated trace of a cadaver  in your apartment (and only your apartment) , you would be beyond devastated. If a highly trained and very accurate blood dog independently indicated blood at exactly the same spot and it turned out to have DNA markers in common with Madeleine, you would be absolutely distraught.

If you had absolutely no idea what happened to your child and a highly trained and very accurate cadaver dog indicated trace of cadaver on your family clothes (and only your clothes) , or in your hire car (and only your hire car) , you would be bewildered as to how it got there. If a highly trained and very accurate  blood dog independently indicated blood/body fluids  in your hire car (and only your hire car)  and body fluids were found  that had DNA markers in common with Madeleine, you would at the very least try to think of a rational explanation.  You  would seriously look at who had the hire car around the time she went missing. She could have been transported in that car by someone else. It's a low probability, but it is possible.  Maybe it was  secondary transfer from something in the apartment.  You might even think someone had planted evidence and that you were being framed.

If you really did not have a clue what happened to your beautiful baby ,  why would you dismiss such very important evidence. Why would you  LIE endlessly to everyone who would listen about how unreliable the dogs are.  Why would you bring this up AGAIN at the libel trial, especially after the dogs have been proven to be pretty much 100% accurate.   Why would you research compounds that might have confused the dogs and inject this information into the story?   It really makes no sense, IF you REALLY didn't know what happened.

On the other hand, if you know exactly  what happened. If you know how the cadaver and blood and body fluids got there. If you were complicit and you are trying to save your own A***s,  it makes a lot of sense.

Obviously IMO

ABSOLUTELY 100percent spot on hun. Totally agree with all that. I would be beyond devastated, and then ANGRY, because i would wonder if someone really close to us had done this, and had tampered the scene....or i would think i was being set up and would have made a huge cry over it, they did non of that just tried to make the dogs look stupid. No i agree with all you wrote.

@mysterion It is so difficult to know where the police stand on this and any number of other cases.  All we have to go on is that OG was originally overseen by Hamish Campbell who also oversaw the investigation into Jill Dando's murder, and we all saw how quickly and incisively that got to the truth without any miscarriages of justice at all!  More recently are the apparent revalations on the exaro site where a serving met oficer has gained them access to a closed police forum where a lot of officers are just as bemused and baffled as we are.  Then we have the absolutely bizarre révélations about undercover officers who entered into sexual relationships with women who, unaware of their true identities bore them children.  These men just disappeared from the lives of the women and, even worse, from the lives of the poor children. As far as I am concerned, this is state sponsored rape, and I was appalled at the widespread lack of sympathy shown to these women.  Then we have the slaughter of Jean Charles de Menenez (hope I've spelt that right) by a team led by Cressida Dick who has recently been punished by a promotion to a mysterious new job in the Foreign Office. I could go on, but you get my point - who the hell knows what's happening inside the various bits of the police service now - certainly a lot of serving officers are in the dark.

As far as I can see OG is theatre with a twist. The twist appears to be bringing the case to a close from the point of view of the British police perhaps in a similar way to The Missing in that everyone feels there has been the best conclusion that could be reached in the circumstances whilst in reality all possibilities are still on the table ready to be resurrected if needs be.  They also seem to be aiming at the female vote with a hard-hitting, ballsy detective straight out of an ITV police drama whose title eludes me for the moment.

Alarm bells rang for me when she stated that her husband works as a "contractor" in the Middle East.

@Oxtab  I'm afraid I don't know which thread or conference you mean. I actually have a pitifully low level of knowledge about the real minutiae of this case, being a latecomer with a limited attention span. But I would be interested to know what conference you are referring to as I am incurably nosey!

@colombostogeys It is so hard to say what I think because I have no evidence to back up my wild spéculations, and that is all they are.  Suffice it to say that you would not look for something either if you already knew where it was or if you knew who had took it and that you had no chance of retrieving it from that person. In a purely hypothetical example, you may have entered into a very bad bargain with someone without fully understanding the nature of the person with whom you had made the bargain or the full conséquences of the price you would have to pay. When the account comes to settlement time and the full conséquences of your actions start to sink in,  you may have to spend a lot of time concealing the nature of the bad decision that you had made. I have the distinct feeling that I have just made things even muddier, sorry! I'll just have to plead the fifth amendment. Sorry to hear about the MS by the way.

doircann wrote:@mysterion It is so difficult to know where the police stand on this and any number of other cases.  All we have to go on is that OG was originally overseen by Hamish Campbell who also oversaw the investigation into Jill Dando's murder, and we all saw how quickly and incisively that got to the truth without any miscarriages of justice at all!  More recently are the apparent revalations on the exaro site where a serving met oficer has gained them access to a closed police forum where a lot of officers are just as bemused and baffled as we are.  Then we have the absolutely bizarre révélations about undercover officers who entered into sexual relationships with women who, unaware of their true identities bore them children.  These men just disappeared from the lives of the women and, even worse, from the lives of the poor children. As far as I am concerned, this is state sponsored rape, and I was appalled at the widespread lack of sympathy shown to these women.  Then we have the slaughter of Jean Charles de Menenez (hope I've spelt that right) by a team led by Cressida Dick who has recently been punished by a promotion to a mysterious new job in the Foreign Office. I could go on, but you get my point - who the hell knows what's happening inside the various bits of the police service now - certainly a lot of serving officers are in the dark.

As far as I can see OG is theatre with a twist. The twist appears to be bringing the case to a close from the point of view of the British police perhaps in a similar way to The Missing in that everyone feels there has been the best conclusion that could be reached in the circumstances whilst in reality all possibilities are still on the table ready to be resurrected if needs be.  They also seem to be aiming at the female vote with a hard-hitting, ballsy detective straight out of an ITV police drama whose title eludes me for the moment.

Alarm bells rang for me when she stated that her husband works as a "contractor" in the Middle East.

@Oxtab  I'm afraid I don't know which thread or conference you mean. I actually have a pitifully low level of knowledge about the real minutiae of this case, being a latecomer with a limited attention span. But I would be interested to know what conference you are referring to as I am incurably nosey!

@colombostogeys It is so hard to say what I think because I have no evidence to back up my wild spéculations, and that is all they are.  Suffice it to say that you would not look for something either if you already knew where it was or if you knew who had took it and that you had no chance of retrieving it from that person. In a purely hypothetical example, you may have entered into a very bad bargain with someone without fully understanding the nature of the person with whom you had made the bargain or the full conséquences of the price you would have to pay. When the account comes to settlement time and the full conséquences of your actions start to sink in,  you may have to spend a lot of time concealing the nature of the bad decision that you had made. I have the distinct feeling that I have just made things even muddier, sorry! I'll just have to plead the fifth amendment. Sorry to hear about the MS by the way.

Doircann - it's the in in the stickies in this section titled "Would this account for the unprecedented level of interest ..."

doircann wrote:@colombostogeys It is so hard to say what I think because I have no evidence to back up my wild spéculations, and that is all they are.  Suffice it to say that you would not look for something either if you already knew where it was or if you knew who had took it and that you had no chance of retrieving it from that person. In a purely hypothetical example, you may have entered into a very bad bargain with someone without fully understanding the nature of the person with whom you had made the bargain or the full conséquences of the price you would have to pay. When the account comes to settlement time and the full conséquences of your actions start to sink in,  you may have to spend a lot of time concealing the nature of the bad decision that you had made. I have the distinct feeling that I have just made things even muddier, sorry! I'll just have to plead the fifth amendment. Sorry to hear about the MS by the way.

Nah dont be sorry its part of who i am, i just get on with it lol.

Yes that is the problem no evidence. NO EVIDENCE of ANYTHING.....no evidence of abduction or death apart from the dogs.

Usually if a child is taken by a pervert they usually find the body very quickly.

If the child was taken by someone to love.....why take an older child when there were 2 babies in cots?

If the child was murdered because of a bungled burglary, where was the evidence of a burglary taken place and why on earth would you take a dead body out of the apartment to do what with? Its a hell of a leap from petty burglary to killing a 3 year child, taking away the body and disposing of it. For me anyone who would be stupid enough to burgle a flat at that time of night with people milling about, have half a brain, and I doubt if they would have the intelligence to cover up so COMPLETELY their tracks, and a small body without leaving any traces. I would think panic would set in and you would leg it out of there if the child woke up......IF THE CHILD WOKE UP and she screamed and scared the bogey man enough for him to want to silence her, how come the TWINS NEVER WOKE UP at the same time?

There is NO EVIDENCE of a child trafficking ring in the PDL area at the time. Why take a white child from an apartment with the possibility of being caught, when there are thousands of young children european, dumped in orphanages all over europe.......

So no EVIDENCE of anything, yet we are forced to believe by SY that this is a burglary gone wrong, well if that is the case then I must be living in a different universe and its no wonder this country is in such a mess. If they force us to believe this scenario then sadly i think there is a huge cover up going on for some bizarre reason.

What I believe with the only evidence available could have happened and it would be pretty simplistic to actually achieve. I find all the stuff we are forced fed to swallow by the group and the police is beyond a joke too much could go wrong.

Better to keep it simple and yes the best place to hide anything is always in plain sight. MERRY XMAS.

@oxtab. Started to peruse the forum an hour ago for one last "minute" before Christmas préparations. Here I still am and my husband forced to cook an omelette for lunch as I was a no show.  I had not spotted the thread towards which you have so helpfully pointed me. I came to my conclusions from other directions.  I had to stop at page 12 or Christmas is not going to happen, but I should have known that people would have unearthed such a wealth of info over the years. Am even more confirmed in my conclusions that this is all to do with an unholy alliance between govt., venture capital and the biotechnologists formerly known as doctors. I am certain that a meeting took place as regards an "innovative new product" but the new products of which we need to think belong to a dystopian world view.

Enough of such darkness at this festive time! Merry Christmas all!  All hope is not lost. 

@colombostoges - keep warm, cheerful and well-fed. Happy Christmas!