Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

by NickE 16.10.14 8:24

From twitter:
anyone know if K&G are really in Portugal.? Aussie reporter says 'they are believed to be in Portugal'.
???

by woodforthetrees 16.10.14 10:43

I have my fingers crossed that the testing of the hairs (which i believe are Madeleine's hairs from the boot of the scenic, not 5a as the media are shouting about), is for one simple thing...

To determine whether they are hairs from a live Madeleine or a deceased Madeleine.

Tests in 2007 could not determine that but allegedly, advances in forensics can now determine this. Amaral has (somewhere, i'd have to do some digging) stated that there are companies in Italy who can get these results, so maybe we have these processes now in the UK too?

It is a glimmer of hope at least that the DNA evidence is being looked at again and if the Scenic hairs do get tested and show they are from cadaver then that will completely turn everything on its head.... just in time for Amarals libel trial and Andy Redwoods 'well done, now hand the case over to your team and slope off in glory' retirement.

IMO of course.

by Snifferdog 16.10.14 10:57

From news 24.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sorry, can't post article, as I am unable to post up anything except links with my phone it seems.

by Baldrick 16.10.14 11:11

Portuguese police closed their search in 2008 after 14 months of controversial investigations, which at one point implicated Madeleine's parents in her abduction before their names were cleared.

Since when, Who said ? aaagh

by Snifferdog 16.10.14 11:18

Murdoch owns most of the press here too Baldrick, so its more of the same.

by woodforthetrees 16.10.14 11:22

Baldrick wrote:Portuguese police closed their search in 2008 after 14 months of controversial investigations, which at one point implicated Madeleine's parents in her abduction before their names were cleared.

Since when, Who said ?

It's just badly worded. What it should say is "their arguido status was lifted due to not enough evidence to secure a conviction against them", but no paper would write that without having their libel chequbook out and ready.

by stillsloppingout 16.10.14 11:37

woodforthetrees wrote:I have my fingers crossed that the testing of the hairs (which i believe are Madeleine's hairs from the boot of the scenic, not 5a as the media are shouting about), is for one simple thing...

To determine whether they are hairs from a live Madeleine or a deceased Madeleine.

Tests in 2007 could not determine that but allegedly, advances in forensics can now determine this. Amaral has (somewhere, i'd have to do some digging) stated that there are companies in Italy who can get these results, so maybe we have these processes now in the UK too?

It is a glimmer of hope at least that the DNA evidence is being looked at again and if the Scenic hairs do get tested and show they are from cadaver then that will completely turn everything on its head.... just in time for Amarals libel trial and Andy Redwoods 'well done, now hand the case over to your team and slope off in glory' retirement.

IMO of course.

If there have been tests as GA stated that could have determined the fundamental question... Was Maddie Dead or Alive in the car ? available for years, then it clearly was political pressure that has prevented these test from being carried out .
Because it does not cost 10 million quid to find out the above answer , which if proved she was dead in there car , there is no possible defence . end of .

Hence the panic from SY . somebody somewhere in Portugal has had enough IMO of the bad feeling, effect on tourism , and getting the pis* taken out of there police . Give them samples to Redwood and we know the rest .

IF the McCann's are over there it is to give the impression they are in control . Maybe they are, maybe they are not we will soon see .

by Snifferdog 16.10.14 12:02

If it were up to me I wouldn't let those hairs out of my sight...

by pennylane 16.10.14 12:08

Snifferdog wrote:If it were up to me I wouldn't let those hairs out of my sight...

Not for a nanosecond! sad

by NickE 16.10.14 12:35

Did the police take any DNA samples from someone in the Tapas gang?

by jeanmonroe 16.10.14 12:41

pennylane wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:If it were up to me I wouldn't let those hairs out of my sight...

Not for a nanosecond!

Unlike, compared to, 'nandoseconds', which OG officers ask for, at their fav Portuguese restaurant, whilst 'visiting' Portugal, 'billed', of course, to the Great British taxpayer! winkwink

by jeanmonroe 16.10.14 12:52

NickE wrote:Did the police take any DNA samples from someone in the Tapas gang?

"Did the (UK) police take someone, anyone, in the Tapas gang, to Portugal, with them, on this latest 'visit'?"

(Rhetorical.)

You know. The Tapas gang that would 'do absolutely anything' to help get their friends 'missing' daughter 'back'

Well, when they SAID they'd 'do absolutely ANYTHING' (to 'help' their 'friends') that didn't, apparently, INCLUDE, actually co-operating with the PJ (reconstruction) unconditionally.

by pennylane 16.10.14 13:50

jeanmonroe wrote:
pennylane wrote:
Snifferdog wrote:If it were up to me I wouldn't let those hairs out of my sight...

Not for a nanosecond!

Unlike, compared to, 'nandoseconds', which OG officers ask for, at their fav Portuguese restaurant, whilst 'visiting' Portugal, 'billed', of course, to the Great British taxpayer!

Yes and OG are getting fatter, and sleazier, each time they rear their ugly heads (imo).

by Guest 16.10.14 16:20

MRNOODLES wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"Act casual and not suspicious cos some idiot has forgotten to photoshop the legs of that bloke on the right"

Where's Junior in this picture?

And why oh why don't them Britishers press their pants before going on camera?

by Gaggzy 16.10.14 16:35

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'Okay lads. I hope you've checked your holstered Glocks are loaded and you've packed a few spare clips. You know how lawless this place is. And don't forget; the first invisible paedo you see, shoot first, ask questions later.'

by Guest 16.10.14 16:40

Gaggzy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

'Okay lads. I hope you've checked your holstered Glocks are loaded and you've packed a few spare clips. You know how lawless this place is. And don't forget; the first invisible paedo you see, shoot first, ask questions later.'

Breaking News:

Spotted right next to AR/SY: the Legless Paedo a.k.a. 'Bottomless'

This explains away at least half of the problems about exit/entry, doesn't it?

by j.rob 16.10.14 16:52

jeanmonroe wrote:If SY are poring over previous DNA findings and linking them to a patsy....suspect..They will find themselves in a heap of Sh...strife.
-------------------------------------

Ala, Barry George!

ps: Wasn't one of the 'suspects' in July, at OG's 'insistence', now arguidos a 'local nutter'? (ala BG?)

pps: The McCanns, imo, NEED, (desperately?) 'THEIR' 38 Maddie Cops to 'PROVE' something, anything, to 'prove' GA WAS 'wrong' and 'claim' their 'damages' at libel case.

There's a scary thought - you always have to follow the money with TM.

by aiyoyo 17.10.14 15:18

With thanks to Joana Morais

Maddie Case: English police plans to re-analyse samples from the resort
17 OCTOBER 2014 | POSTED BY JOANA MORAIS LEAVE A COMMENT

English detectives arrival at PJ headquarters in Faro last Tuesday | Photo Luís Forra/Lusa

by Marisa Rodrigues

The English police are considering sending a new letter rogatory requesting the re-analyses of the samples that were collected at the apartment from where Madeleine disappeared seven years ago. They did not, however, disclose which type of tests nor their worthiness to the investigation.

At the 3-hour meeting, yesterday [15th], at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine(INML) in Coimbra, the Portuguese forensic experts explained that everything had been done exhaustively back in 2007, with techniques more advanced than the ones used in England at the time. But the British police insisted. They wanted to know the present condition of the samples, if they could still be subject to further analyses with more sophisticated methods and if they could be taken to England.

The Portuguese investigators asked what type of tests they intended to perform and with what goal but were left without an answer. JN established that some of the thoroughly analysed samples no longer exist. Others, such as the hairs and remnants of fabric belonging to a curtain from the apartment, may be retested yet again. A decision that depends of the Public Ministry and requires a formal request, via letter rogatory.

The meeting, without precedents, brought together the most senior boards of criminal and forensic investigation. It was attended by the directors of the Judiciary Police of the Algarve, Luís Mota Carmo and Ana Paula Rito, Helena Monteiro, the Oporto PJ coordinator in charge of the review of the process, three experts from the Forensic Science Laboratory of the PJ as well as experts from the INML, among them one who worked in the case in 2007.

in Jornal de Noticias, 16 Oct. 2014, paper edition

by **PeterMac** 17.10.14 16:33

This defies belief.

What sort of tests would you like us to do ?
Oh, yer know, one to establish the presence of an Abductor, like.
So how exactly would you like us to proceed ?
Erm. I failed CSE Chemistry, and didn't do Physics or Biology, so I am not quite sure, but if you could test them all for "Presence of an Abductor" that would be great
Perhaps something like this, and if it goes Blue there was an abductor . . .?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

by HelenMeg 17.10.14 16:36

PeterMac wrote:This defies belief.

What sort of tests would you like us to do ?
Oh, yer know, one to establish the presence of an Abductor, like.
So how exactly would you like us to proceed ?
Erm. I failed CSE Chemistry, and didn't do Physics or Biology, so I am not quite sure, but if you could test them all for "Presence of an Abductor" that would be great
Perhaps something like this, and if it goes Blue there was an abductor . . .?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Well you made me smile big grin

But I dont believe it's quite as being reported at least hope not eek

by Sceptic 17.10.14 18:38

To: The Director of the Police Scientific Laboratory
Lisbon

Date: 28 August 2007

Subject:

The present inquiry deals with the investigation into the disappearance of the British girl, Madeleine McCann, a fact that occurred on 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

During the course of the investigation diverse material/articles and objects susceptible to containing biological vestiges have been collected.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.

With the aim of preserving and maintaining the CHAIN and CUSTODY of evidence during the lack of conclusion from the examinations that are being carried out in England, the remaining inferior part of the curtain was collected.

Date and time of collection: 28th August 2007 06.35 hours
Place: Apartment 5 A, Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz

Accordingly we request that the piece collected and delivered to the Police Scientific Laboratory be PRESERVED for the eventual carrying out of complementary examinations.

With compliments

G. Amaral

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: The Director of the Scientific Police Laboratory

From PJ, DIC Portimao

Date: 26-09-2007

Subject: Request for Examinations

Ref: NUIPC 201.07 Galgs

As it necessary for the investigation of the crime mentioned above and is of a VERY URGENT nature, I request you to carry out the examinations of the material already sent to this laboratory as quickly as possible, namely:

1. Swabs with vestiges of human blood collected by officers from the local crime scene (examination no. 200707356 - CR/L) on 6th May 2007 from the wall of Quinta dos Figos, P da L. Material preserved in this laboratory (examination no. 200707143-BG). For the determination of DNA and comparison with the profiles that were obtained in the examinations carried out by the INML within the scope of the process 2007000226/LX-BC.

2. Curtain collected from apartment 5 A of the OC resort, P da L on 28th August 2007 and delivered to this laboratory on the same day where it is preserved (examination no. 200712288- BG. For the search of vestiges namely blood, semen or hair. According to the results of the examinations further tests will be considered.

With compliments,

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral

by bobbin 17.10.14 19:54

Sceptic wrote:To: The Director of the Police Scientific Laboratory
Lisbon

Date: 28 August 2007

Subject:

The present inquiry deals with the investigation into the disappearance of the British girl, Madeleine McCann, a fact that occurred on 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

During the course of the investigation diverse material/articles and objects susceptible to containing biological vestiges have been collected.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.

With the aim of preserving and maintaining the CHAIN and CUSTODY of evidence during the lack of conclusion from the examinations that are being carried out in England, the remaining inferior part of the curtain was collected.

Date and time of collection: 28th August 2007 06.35 hours
Place: Apartment 5 A, Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz

Accordingly we request that the piece collected and delivered to the Police Scientific Laboratory be PRESERVED for the eventual carrying out of complementary examinations.

With compliments

G. Amaral

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: The Director of the Scientific Police Laboratory

From PJ, DIC Portimao

Date: 26-09-2007

Subject: Request for Examinations

Ref: NUIPC 201.07 Galgs

As it necessary for the investigation of the crime mentioned above and is of a VERY URGENT nature, I request you to carry out the examinations of the material already sent to this laboratory as quickly as possible, namely:

1. Swabs with vestiges of human blood collected by officers from the local crime scene (examination no. 200707356 - CR/L) on 6th May 2007 from the wall of Quinta dos Figos, P da L. Material preserved in this laboratory (examination no. 200707143-BG). For the determination of DNA and comparison with the profiles that were obtained in the examinations carried out by the INML within the scope of the process 2007000226/LX-BC.

2. Curtain collected from apartment 5 A of the OC resort, P da L on 28th August 2007 and delivered to this laboratory on the same day where it is preserved (examination no. 200712288- BG. For the search of vestiges namely blood, semen or hair. According to the results of the examinations further tests will be considered.

With compliments,

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral

Very telling information here.
It now asks the questions,
When did Martin Brunt first report on the blood spray on the walls, as if a broken thorax or some similar type of injury had occurred.
When did Martin Brunt then report the 'inconclusive' reports from John Lowe of the FSS? FFS? in Birmingham.
Did Gonçalo Amaral react and demand a Portuguese analysis AFTER the clearly 'manipulated/suppressed' report or did he get wind of it before hand.
If anyone has the information to hand, that would be lovely, if not, I'll go looking.

by Daryl Dixon 17.10.14 20:47

bobbin wrote:
Sceptic wrote:To: The Director of the Police Scientific Laboratory
Lisbon

Date: 28 August 2007

Subject:

The present inquiry deals with the investigation into the disappearance of the British girl, Madeleine McCann, a fact that occurred on 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

During the course of the investigation diverse material/articles and objects susceptible to containing biological vestiges have been collected.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.

With the aim of preserving and maintaining the CHAIN and CUSTODY of evidence during the lack of conclusion from the examinations that are being carried out in England, the remaining inferior part of the curtain was collected.

Date and time of collection: 28th August 2007 06.35 hours
Place: Apartment 5 A, Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz

Accordingly we request that the piece collected and delivered to the Police Scientific Laboratory be PRESERVED for the eventual carrying out of complementary examinations.

With compliments

G. Amaral

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: The Director of the Scientific Police Laboratory

From PJ, DIC Portimao

Date: 26-09-2007

Subject: Request for Examinations

Ref: NUIPC 201.07 Galgs

As it necessary for the investigation of the crime mentioned above and is of a VERY URGENT nature, I request you to carry out the examinations of the material already sent to this laboratory as quickly as possible, namely:

1. Swabs with vestiges of human blood collected by officers from the local crime scene (examination no. 200707356 - CR/L) on 6th May 2007 from the wall of Quinta dos Figos, P da L. Material preserved in this laboratory (examination no. 200707143-BG). For the determination of DNA and comparison with the profiles that were obtained in the examinations carried out by the INML within the scope of the process 2007000226/LX-BC.

2. Curtain collected from apartment 5 A of the OC resort, P da L on 28th August 2007 and delivered to this laboratory on the same day where it is preserved (examination no. 200712288- BG. For the search of vestiges namely blood, semen or hair. According to the results of the examinations further tests will be considered.

With compliments,

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral
Very telling information here.
It now asks the questions,
When did Martin Brunt first report on the blood spray on the walls, as if a broken thorax or some similar type of injury had occurred.
When did Martin Brunt then report the 'inconclusive' reports from John Lowe of the FSS? FFS? in Birmingham.
Did Gonçalo Amaral react and demand a Portuguese analysis AFTER the clearly 'manipulated/suppressed' report or did he get wind of it before hand.
If anyone has the information to hand, that would be lovely, if not, I'll go looking.

This is a request for tests on blood stains found outside Quinta dos Figos, not in apartment 5A

by bobbin 17.10.14 21:42

Daryl Dixon wrote:
bobbin wrote:
Sceptic wrote:To: The Director of the Police Scientific Laboratory
Lisbon

Date: 28 August 2007

Subject:

The present inquiry deals with the investigation into the disappearance of the British girl, Madeleine McCann, a fact that occurred on 3rd May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

During the course of the investigation diverse material/articles and objects susceptible to containing biological vestiges have been collected.

At the beginning of this month of August a curtain was collected from the living room of the apartment including a portion from the same pair of curtains, materials that were sent to England with other articles/objects for subjection to examination.

With the aim of preserving and maintaining the CHAIN and CUSTODY of evidence during the lack of conclusion from the examinations that are being carried out in England, the remaining inferior part of the curtain was collected.

Date and time of collection: 28th August 2007 06.35 hours
Place: Apartment 5 A, Ocean Club Resort, Praia da Luz

Accordingly we request that the piece collected and delivered to the Police Scientific Laboratory be PRESERVED for the eventual carrying out of complementary examinations.

With compliments

G. Amaral

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: The Director of the Scientific Police Laboratory

From PJ, DIC Portimao

Date: 26-09-2007

Subject: Request for Examinations

Ref: NUIPC 201.07 Galgs

As it necessary for the investigation of the crime mentioned above and is of a VERY URGENT nature, I request you to carry out the examinations of the material already sent to this laboratory as quickly as possible, namely:

1. Swabs with vestiges of human blood collected by officers from the local crime scene (examination no. 200707356 - CR/L) on 6th May 2007 from the wall of Quinta dos Figos, P da L. Material preserved in this laboratory (examination no. 200707143-BG). For the determination of DNA and comparison with the profiles that were obtained in the examinations carried out by the INML within the scope of the process 2007000226/LX-BC.

2. Curtain collected from apartment 5 A of the OC resort, P da L on 28th August 2007 and delivered to this laboratory on the same day where it is preserved (examination no. 200712288- BG. For the search of vestiges namely blood, semen or hair. According to the results of the examinations further tests will be considered.

With compliments,

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral
Very telling information here.
It now asks the questions,
When did Martin Brunt first report on the blood spray on the walls, as if a broken thorax or some similar type of injury had occurred.
When did Martin Brunt then report the 'inconclusive' reports from John Lowe of the FSS? FFS? in Birmingham.
Did Gonçalo Amaral react and demand a Portuguese analysis AFTER the clearly 'manipulated/suppressed' report or did he get wind of it before hand.
If anyone has the information to hand, that would be lovely, if not, I'll go looking.
This is a request for tests on blood stains found outside Quinta dos Figos, not in apartment 5A

Thanks DD. I went looking and got sidetracked by Truth of the Lie, chapter 18. I wanted to know if Gonçalo Amaral had reacted to suppressed material from the UK FSS (Forensic Science Service).
It is clear that he was already very concerned about how the UK investigation was going, and this leads me now to believe more than ever that a cover up is the order of the day.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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I then looked at the blood analysis found on the 6th May. So far I have only found that the trail seems to have gone dead and shininginluz believes it may have been anyone's blood. I do recall reading that it could have been a drunkard or other skirmish.

I still have not found the definitive as to how Gonçalo's letter (date) correlates to Martin Brunt's Sky report on the blood spatters in 5A but am satisfied from GA's book, ch.18 that the UK's Forensic capacity was already being questioned.

I hope that Portugal does not for a second time hand over precious vestiges. As a commenter on Joanna Morais site has indicated, how easy it would be for the vestiges to be contaminated/linked to a stooge and the whole blame be placed elsewhere.

by Guest 17.10.14 21:47

bobbin wrote:

I hope that Portugal does not for a second time hand over precious vestiges. As a commenter on Joanna Morais site has indicated, how easy it would be for the vestiges to be contaminated/linked to a stooge and the whole blame be placed elsewhere.

One would hope once bitten twice shy,if the forensics are so important to the OG one would like to think the PJ would be suspicious and even weary of handing them over.

by margaret 17.10.14 23:20

WMD wrote:
bobbin wrote:

I hope that Portugal does not for a second time hand over precious vestiges. As a commenter on Joanna Morais site has indicated, how easy it would be for the vestiges to be contaminated/linked to a stooge and the whole blame be placed elsewhere.
One would hope once bitten twice shy,if the forensics are so important to the OG one would like to think the PJ would be suspicious and even weary of handing them over.

If Portugal do hand them over then the SY investigation must be running alongside, NO WAY would Portugal trust them again otherwise. I'll wait and see what Portugal does...

by NickE 18.10.14 14:29

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lol4

by aiyoyo 18.10.14 14:34

Defending the Mcs to the hilt.....

Interesting !

by TheTruthWillOut 18.10.14 14:48

NickE wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What is this guys problem? Is he just butthurt over CEOP or does it go even deeper?

Just to name one case (Pilley) dogs alerted but nothing physical was found and I'm sure these alerts were used in the court case. Will he now start fighting for Gilroy's release?

by **PeterMac** 18.10.14 14:56

Then google

Eugene Zapata
D’Andre Lane
Adrian Prout, - body found AFTER conviction
David Gilroy,
Marquis Bulloch,
Zinah Jennings
Albert Fine,
Pedro Hernandez,
Shakara Dickens,

ALL are convictions with NO BODY FOUND, but with dog alerts to cadaverine
Zapata, Kate's favourite case is remarkable for the change of plea before the second trial and, what most pros choose to ignore, his confession that the body had in fact been in all the places the dogs indicated, over a period of 26 years or so, as he moved around and moved her remains at the same time.
Why Kate had not confirmed this before putting it into her Prosecution Exhibit KH1, Heaven only knows.
Prout also remarkable in that a year or so after being found Guilty WiTHOUT a body having been found, he confessed and told Police where it was.
Which rather stuffed the on-line campaign to clear his name and to claim that it was an egregious Miscarriage of Justice. Their subsequent wrigglings are very funny if anyone can be bothered to look them up.