Re: Digging to start next week - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

by CynicAl 28.05.14 15:36

Cristobell wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Police officers work close to dogs all through their service. Drugs, explosives, firearms residues, bodies dead or alive . . .
They know know how good they are.
Medics understand how accurate and detailed are the alerts of a Malignant melanoma dog, a kidney cancer dog, seizure alert dog, diabetic incident dog
and more are being trained to detect lung cancer from a patient's breath.
There are MANY more examples.
Fire and rescue use them, the Army use them, Mountain Rescue use them, Avalanche patrols use them

Only two people in the entire world say they are notoriously unreliable
Co-incidentally the only two who were "fingered" by the alerts.
... but why have Operation Grange never once if i recall, mentioned the original dogs findings back in 2007..?
Operation Grange have diverted suspicion away from the McCanns since the Review and indeed the investigation, began. Imo, due to the huge media interest, they had no alternative. I think they avoided mention of the dogs as they did not want to kick off a media storm that would point the finger towards the McCanns. As we know the dog alerts are hardly a secret, but the public forget and the MSM have done nothing to remind them.

The McCanns will be extremely vulnerable when the story breaks - as yet we do not know what the backlash will be. Many people will be very angry when they discover they have been conned and some of their more obsessive fans are criminally insane. I believe the McCanns are being protected by the authorities - not for whitewash reasons, but for their own safety.

I cannot even begin to imagine how delicately even the most committed investigation would have to be in this situation.

To cut a long story short, as many people as may be implicated in either foreknowledge, or murder, or a fake kidnapping, or sexual shenanigans, or any kind of covering up whatsoever, and as many people as may be associated with those people, will all have to be extracted and/or protected simultaneously because the repercussions of this case blowing open have gone beyond serious and into the realm of total nuclear meltdown...

Angry people, venting, anger unleashed, not to mention the innocents who will irradiated by the fallout, all needing care and concern, protection systems in place...

Like you said, the blogosphere and the twitterverse are tragically populated by lunatics on both sides...

The logistics of the properties that will need to be protected, the coordination of police forces across the country, the speed, the precision required, the accommodation offered to those needing protective custody... its enormous. In fact, its so enormous that you almost couldn't blame the authorities looking for a solution that hangs as few people as completely as possible, as quickly as possible. I'll bet money that there are people in this country praying for Mr & Mrs to kill themselves in an act of despair, and let the case die with them.

by russiandoll 28.05.14 15:45

Quote bristow [ bold mine ] " I may be remembering it wrong so someone please correct me if I am, but I seem to remember Gerry Mccann once said that it was like going to the auto bank and finding yourself over the limit when he discovered his child missing.Yes dear Gerry said -

"The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you'd got to your overdraft limit and you'd gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank."

Taken from an interview with Sky News May 2007

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No, he did not compare finding his child gone to finding he was in the red at the bank. he was making an analogy about his emotional exhaustion and having nothing left to give. The same comment has been made before on this forum and it is simply not the case that Gerry McCann compared the emotion at finding his child missing to finding he was overdrawn at the bank!

Here are his words : bold mine

GM: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you'd got to your overdraft limit and you'd gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank.
Also, I think, physically and mentally were shattered but, you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to get back into the black

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 15:45

Andrew77R wrote:
tiny wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:"The English believe that the little girl was killed during a burglary to the house and that the body was abandoned near the Ocean Club afterwards"

Not a good sign for the Whitewash believers..

I thought it was a good sign for the whitewashers believers,because we know a burglary never happened.
Apologies,

Yes, I actually mean't a good sign for the Whitewashers. The only whitewash theory they can come up with really.

Multitasking when i wrote. Typical bloke and can't multitask!!!

(No offence to other blokes who i'm sure can)

O/T

It is an urban myth that men cannot multi-task as well as women.

by roy rovers 28.05.14 15:47

AR may just be using the idea of a burglary to get as close as possible to the truth without pointing the finger at the parents at this stage. The whole scenario - died in the apartment , buried nearby - can then be transferred to the parents if / when established.

by tiny 28.05.14 15:55

When would any one have time to bury Madeleine. even if she died a day or so before it would be very risky,unless she was buried IN Murats garden
behind the high wall away from prying eyes after the pj checked his house and garden out.

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 15:57

jeanmonroe wrote:'digging' to start next week.
--------------------------------

If i were cynical i'd say that it must be pure 'coincidence' that the 'digging' will be ongoing at the same time as the 'conman' programme is broadcast.

Talking about the conman, Halligen's operation is named "Operation Omega".

Alpha Investigations Group (Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley) and Omega (Halligen and Exton),....uhhmmm coincidence or not very original ?

by **PeterMac** 28.05.14 16:10

tiny wrote:When would any one have time to bury Madeleine. even if she died a day or so before it would be very risky,. . ..

Some weeks later, having moved the body from the cold storage in the boot of the car. Hence the cadaver odour in the car and on the Key fob.

by **PeterMac** 28.05.14 16:11

aiyoyo wrote:
It is an urban myth that men cannot multi-task as well as women.

But it suits men to let women believe it !

by **PeterMac** 28.05.14 16:18

For SY to have mentioned the dogs would mean that the Al Capone scenario kicked in before they had any chance of liaising with the PJ and trying to find the body, and getting to the truth, the whole truth of what actually happened and who was involved.
Once anyone is cautioned they have the legal right to remain silent.
Kate has already demonstrated this by refusing to assist in the "search" for Madeleine, and acknowledging that by so refusing she was so hindering.

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 16:21

PeterMac wrote:Just pulling three bits out of what may turn out to be Tabloid rubbish

The three grounds are located near the Praia da Luz resort, in Lagos, where the English child disappeared from, on the 3rd of May of 2007. The English believe that the little girl was killed during a burglary to the house and that the body was abandoned near the Ocean Club afterwards.
NEAR PdL. NOT IN PdL.
Dogs that specialise in detecting cadaver odour will participate in the searches. The animals come from England and have already been successfully used in the retrieval of other bodies. The radars that will be used to find out if there is an alien object under ground will come from the same country.
Dogs and GPR - see other posts
The search warrants that permit the searches have also been issued already - because these are private grounds.
Search Warrants ?
If that is even close to being "true" it is very revealing.

WIKI
United Kingdom
Search warrants are issued by a local Magistrate and require a Constable to provide evidence to support the warrant application.
In other words a mere suspicion is not enough. You are not allowed to go on a "Fishing expedition".

However, CdM is a red top and should not be believed without independent verification.

We know team McCann is source for UK tripe on the PJ investigations.
Wonder who could be the source for CdM story on the MET operation?
CdM is doing to the MET what UK tabloids do the PJ.
Par for the Course. Which bits are true and which bits just hearsay is anyone's guess.

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 16:53

About the talk of searches - in the first place search warrant will not be granted without substantive evidence to justify the issuance in this jurisdiction, never mind expecting another jurisdiction to grant it just on suspicions without evidence justification.

Besides the bureaucracy of several levels of procedures/processing from one country inter-authoritiess to another country's inter-authorities is very time consuming.
Unless urgency is called for on exceptional evidence this may go straight up to the Magistrate for a fast track approval, and again this is restricted to within one jurisdiction. So to believe Portugal to have already granted it on ILOR basis it would have to mean MET already have substantive evidence to support the application, which is hard to believe since they are going on a fishing expedition with the digs.

The imminent searches and arrests of laundry men, bin man, home intruders et al, hyped up by Team McCann did not happen for exactly the reason Police cannot obtain search warrant nilly willy.

I will take CdM article with large pinch of salt.

JCB, dogs and team of Police is going to be difficult to hide from press, so let's wait and see whether imminent digs are going to happen and where exactly.

by stillsloppingout 28.05.14 17:10

TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.

Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 17:11

tiny wrote:When would any one have time to bury Madeleine. even if she died a day or so before it would be very risky,unless she was buried IN Murats garden
behind the high wall away from prying eyes after the pj checked his house and garden out.

Exactly !
Stranger abductor won't be too bothered to bury a body.
He would get rid of it quickly, dumping it as far away as possible from him or crime scene.
It is very unlikely stranger abductor would bury victim in a properly dug grave involving use of fancy tool that JCB is needed to undo it.

by plebgate 28.05.14 17:25

aiyoyo wrote:
tiny wrote:When would any one have time to bury Madeleine. even if she died a day or so before it would be very risky,unless she was buried IN Murats garden
behind the high wall away from prying eyes after the pj checked his house and garden out.

Exactly !
Stranger abductor won't be too bothered to bury a body.
He would get rid of it quickly, dumping it as far away as possible from him or crime scene.
It is very unlikely stranger abductor would bury victim in a properly dug grave involving use of fancy tool that JCB is needed to undo it.

Sounds about right to me.

by TozerDerry 28.05.14 17:32

stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .

And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 17:53

If report is true - that SY is gong to rely on dogs to help detect the body - then they must accept the dogs signals that Maddie died in 5A.
And it can't be by the hands of intruder or burglary gone wrong since on their timeline there is no passage of time for cadaverine development.

by **PeterMac** 28.05.14 18:23

TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .
And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.

Is that the same in Portuguese law ?

by stillsloppingout 28.05.14 18:25

TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .
And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.

Not if the person/s entering the property,own or are renting the premises !!! big grin

by MRNOODLES 28.05.14 19:16

Regardless of the definition of burglar. How could they make the burglar whitewash stick?

If they declare MBM died in 5a how can the explain away the fact it takes what? Minimum 60 minutes for the cadaver odour to develop. And afterf NSY says they've moved the timeline forward.

by TozerDerry 28.05.14 19:16

stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .
And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.
Not if the person/s entering the property,own or are renting the premises !!!

Note the word 'unauthorised'. If you own or rent premises, you can authorise people to enter them.

by Justformaddie 28.05.14 19:17

Brilliant!!! clapping

stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .
And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.
Not if the person/s entering the property,own or are renting the premises !!!

by Guest 28.05.14 19:27

Quick question, Does Martin Grimes still provide cadaver and blood dogs to the usa and elsewhere ?
If so does he breed the dogs himself-could eddie and keela have pups in the family line iykwim?
Is it possible that SY could use these dogs again? Do they still use Martin Grimes' services?

I hope so and hope if they signal in the same places that others will see just how reliable and well trained they are

by NickE 28.05.14 19:36

Andrew77R wrote:"The English believe that the little girl was killed during a burglary to the house and that the body was abandoned near the Ocean Club afterwards"

Not a good sign for the Whitewash believers..

Wait a second.
SY argue that a burglar killed the girl in the apartment and buried her around the corner?
Hope they had a Bobcat in the back pocket, the ground is hard as rock.
Seriously, this theory must be a smokescreen.

by stillsloppingout 28.05.14 19:39

TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
TozerDerry wrote:Burglary is not theft. Burglary is entry to premises with intention to commit a crime within those premises. No theft need be involved.
Burglar if i am not mistaken in this context is a noun for a person who commits burglary .
And Burglary is unauthorised entry to a property with intent to commit a crime- not necessarily the crime of theft.
Not if the person/s entering the property,own or are renting the premises !!!
Note the word 'unauthorised'. If you own or rent premises, you can authorise people to enter them.

So they were authorised burglars then ? .

What if the [ burglars ] were known by the tenants and were authorised , but decided to slip in an unauthorised visit ? or because of there dizzying checks, forgot wether they were authorised or unauthorised ?

by lj 28.05.14 19:59

Andrew77R wrote:"The English believe that the little girl was killed during a burglary to the house and that the body was abandoned near the Ocean Club afterwards"

Not a good sign for the Whitewash believers..

Oh yes it is: exactly what we predicted:

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"Nothing here either", she must be alive and in a hellish lair.

So the McCanns were right, so was the ambassador and the government spokesman and the police and FSS and the prime minister

and above all we, the infallible SY.

BTW what happened to all those pedophiles??

by lj 28.05.14 20:03

stillsloppingout wrote:
tiny wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:"The English believe that the little girl was killed during a burglary to the house and that the body was abandoned near the Ocean Club afterwards"

Not a good sign for the Whitewash believers..

I thought it was a good sign for the whitewashers believers,because we know a burglary never happened.
So a burglar enters the apartment has a rummage , leaves no DNA fingerprints , finds nothing of value , ' i know ill take a child , before that ill kill her , and sit with her body for 45 mins , whilst in the same room as two small babies, hopefully nobody comes in to check . Then ill carry the corpse through the town in the dark and dispose of her , so well that it has never been detected for seven years !!!!
BRILLIANT of course why didn't we all think of this .

by aiyoyo 28.05.14 20:05

lj wrote:

BTW what happened to all those pedophiles??

What pedophiles?

Thought they were only interested in the dead ones. You know those who no longer have a voice to object.

by lj 28.05.14 20:09

PeterMac wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:'digging' to start next week.
--------------------------------
If i were cynical i'd say that it must be pure 'coincidence' that the 'digging' will be ongoing at the same time as the 'conman' programme is broadcast.
And does anyone know when the Libel trial is likely to resume ?

That was my first thought....

by lj 28.05.14 20:24

stillsloppingout wrote:
So they were authorised burglars then ? .

What if the [ burglars ] were known by the tenants and were authorised , but decided to slip in an unauthorised visit ? or because of there dizzying checks, forgot wether they were authorised or unauthorised ?

Just wanted to say I love your new avatar!

by lj 28.05.14 20:27

aiyoyo wrote:
lj wrote:

BTW what happened to all those pedophiles??

What pedophiles?

Thought they were only interested in the dead ones. You know those who no longer have a voice to object.

Don't we still have one with a bullseye on his T shirt running around alive?

Maybe they are digging for bodies of pedophiles?? bigshock

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