Re: Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

by aiyoyo 24.05.14 22:59

Woofer wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
[color=#0066ff] [i]I agree.
She must have been taken to quite some distance away outside PdL.
Likely to an isolated hilly area with gully / ditch where she was half-buried-half-hidden without aid of a digging tool.
Or to a freezer. Far safer than half buried.
Also some distance away from PdL. But not very far.

And all done in the time it takes for a Ruptured Achilles Tendon to heal (with miraculous intervention )

Freezer means having to involve another person outside of the group.
Very risky to involve outsider in such a secret.

Unless he`s a local that can be blackmailed.

I can guess who you'd in mind; but why would he want to earn blood money? It makes no sense !

Besides....how did this idea of a freezer come about ? I thought it was a forum myth.

Freezer was never mentioned in police files. Metal sheet was mentioned on 3As by L'eau Froide.
It was said her body might not have been transported in the car but stuff in contact with her body were.
A thawing body would leave copious fluids trail than the minuscule that was found.
Speculating here - had she been left somewhere cold still in the blue bag, and blue bag not buried with her as too bulky and not biodegradable and the blue bag placed in car boot to be taken farther away for discarding then a damp bag could leave fluid in minuscule amount.

Personally I don't see them involving a relative outsider in their secret; else why throw him under the bus, angering him and risk all sorts.

Some believed he was paid off for his silence but I think he was compensated well for agreeing not to sue those who fingered him.
He might have known some of them and had helped them in an inadvertently indirect way but I doubt he was in the know.
Had they involved him they will always be at his mercy in future, Plus there is no guarantee he would keep to his side of the bargain even after bought his silence.

by stillsloppingout 24.05.14 23:41

Just finished at the soap awards, Nobody [ snapper ] has been over to Portugal [its more agencys atm ] , and the street paps before 10pm are actually quite nice ,its the idiots later that are the problem .

Catching up . a poster states that i assumed SY called the McCanns Gerry and Kate . If they read again i quickly amend the post a few pages later . but even so, they are on first name terms .

Which leads to the Blacksmith site . his latest post is trying to question wether celebrity effects the minds of people , not just lay fans but right to the very top . well i am in a position to answer that . the answer is a resounding yes .
I have been in a position to see how ' celebrity " affects people for nearly 20 years .

One of my last posts mentions Ian Watkins; three Police forces refused to charge him, or even take the claims against him serious because it would damage his career . the Babyshambles post he writes ,is re the death at a party he [ Doherty ] was in attendance of [ where it is alleged the reporter who died, was arguing with the singer shortly before he was thrown to his death , nobody has ever been charged ]

The reason is a new psychosis , its like the Stockholme syndrome , it has not been defined yet, but it allows " names ' get away with varying degrees of discrepancies ' and the pay off for the person in authority is [ which Blacksmith cannot grasp / or understand ] they get kudos from not doing a disservice to a celebrity , so they can for example say to friends , l met X celebrity today he was parked on double yellows i didn't give him a ticket . thus they gain power over the name , which give the person for a few moments equal power as the celebrity . if they did the opposite the kudos is not gained , thus the story is weakened .

The McCann's as i say are celebrity's , [ anything on the box these days is ] they are in paper terms B list, as they will always make a paper unlike most soap stars, even Judges are caught up by celebrity [ Leverson ], as they don't see that many in the dock .[ forget this current witch hunt . ]

Remember the last famous one that the Judge got all starry eyed for was Archer with his " Fragrant wife " .

Police will mostly ask a name for an autograph rather than do them for speeding etc . thirty years ago the opposite applied .

by maebee 24.05.14 23:43

NickE wrote:
biggles wrote:@canada12, @daffodil

Maybe there is no body.. perhaps it was cremated? That would explain why gerry is so confident that the body will not be found. I'm sure I remember reading about a vetinary in the PDL area that the body could have been taken to for the purposes of cremation, or was that discounted? Did I imagine that maybe? Agree with the freezer hypothesis.
Someone,correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have in mind that Roman Catholics do not practice cremation?
or?

You're wrong on this one Nicke. I was at the cremation of my 85 year old aunt last week. She was a staunch Catholic and always wanted to be cremated and she got her wish. The Priest acted the same as if it was a burial.

by 1soapy 25.05.14 0:11

Is it possible to destroy/dispose of a body as well as can be done in a proper cremation? For example, what temperature is required to destroy bone or render it to ashes? Could a body be sliced up so small as to be dispersed in a field or mixed with peat or spread at sea? Would a weighted body dropped somewhere in water be effective? Are there other ways to confidently or effectively dispose of a body, with or without professional people or gadgets? Could any of these or other possibilities be being pursued by authorities in the current search/proposed digging phase? I find it hard to see some of these being done by family and hard to see how the risk of involving others would be taken, though the former seems more likely if performed by someone with the right temperament and a realistic view of what the future might hold if it wasn’t done.

by notlongnow 25.05.14 0:17

stillsloppingout wrote:Just finished at the soap awards, Nobody [ snapper ] has been over to Portugal [its more agencys atm ] , and the street paps before 10pm are actually quite nice ,its the idiots later that are the problem .

Catching up . a poster states that i assumed SY called the McCanns Gerry and Kate . If they read again i quickly amend the post a few pages later . but even so, they are on first name terms .

Which leads to the Blacksmith site . his latest post is trying to question wether celebrity effects the minds of people , not just lay fans but right to the very top . well i am in a position to answer that . the answer is a resounding yes .
I have been in a position to see how ' celebrity " affects people for nearly 20 years .

One of my last posts mentions Ian Watkins; three Police forces refused to charge him, or even take the claims against him serious because it would damage his career . the Babyshambles post he writes ,is re the death at a party he [ Doherty ] was in attendance of [ where it is alleged the reporter who died, was arguing with the singer shortly before he was thrown to his death , nobody has ever been charged ]

The reason is a new psychosis , its like the Stockholme syndrome , it has not been defined yet, but it allows " names ' get away with varying degrees of discrepancies ' and the pay off for the person in authority is [ which Blacksmith cannot grasp / or understand ] they get kudos from not doing a disservice to a celebrity , so they can for example say to friends , l met X celebrity today he was parked on double yellows i didn't give him a ticket . thus they gain power over the name , which give the person for a few moments equal power as the celebrity . if they did the opposite the kudos is not gained , thus the story is weakened .

The McCann's as i say are celebrity's , [ anything on the box these days is ] they are in paper terms B list, as they will always make a paper unlike most soap stars, even Judges are caught up by celebrity [ Leverson ], as they don't see that many in the dock .[ forget this current witch hunt . ]

Remember the last famous one that the Judge got all starry eyed for was Archer with his " Fragrant wife " .

Police will mostly ask a name for an autograph rather than do them for speeding etc . thirty years ago the opposite applied .

Can you say what the journos you know make of this case?

by canada12 25.05.14 0:31

1soapy wrote:Is it possible to destroy/dispose of a body as well as can be done in a proper cremation? For example, what temperature is required to destroy bone or render it to ashes? Could a body be sliced up so small as to be dispersed in a field or mixed with peat or spread at sea? Would a weighted body dropped somewhere in water be effective? Are there other ways to confidently or effectively dispose of a body, with or without professional people or gadgets? Could any of these or other possibilities be being pursued by authorities in the current search/proposed digging phase? I find it hard to see some of these being done by family and hard to see how the risk of involving others would be taken, though the former seems more likely if performed by someone with the right temperament and a realistic view of what the future might hold if it wasn’t done.

I'm willing to consider cremation as a very good way to dispose of a small body. The tricky part is having a fire hot enough to render the entire body into ashes, considering how much of our body is water. The solution is to "mummify" the body beforehand, as the ancient Egyptians did. By placing it in sand. Within about 40 days, all of the moisture has left the body and you're left with a dried out shell. You can hasten this process by removing some of the vital inside parts (organs, etc), so it's just the shell of the body and the bones and muscles left. The dried out shell can then easily be cremated - not necessarily in a crematorium. Think of the ways you could burn something to render it into ashes... an outdoor barbecue... a campfire...

I still believe a freezer or fridge played a very important part in the process at some point, to perhaps allow a delay before transfer and / or other processes were undertaken.

But mummification by sand - especially in a place like PDL, which is beside the ocean and has unlimited sand available - should be considered. And not necessarily burial in the sand at the beach. Burial in sand in a container would work just as well.

by Woofer 25.05.14 0:51

aiyoyo wrote:
Woofer wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
[color=#0066ff] [i]I agree.
She must have been taken to quite some distance away outside PdL.
Likely to an isolated hilly area with gully / ditch where she was half-buried-half-hidden without aid of a digging tool.
Or to a freezer. Far safer than half buried.
Also some distance away from PdL. But not very far.

And all done in the time it takes for a Ruptured Achilles Tendon to heal (with miraculous intervention )

Freezer means having to involve another person outside of the group.
Very risky to involve outsider in such a secret.

Unless he`s a local that can be blackmailed.

I can guess who you'd in mind; but why would he want to earn blood money? It makes no sense !

Besides....how did this idea of a freezer come about ? I thought it was a forum myth.

Freezer was never mentioned in police files. Metal sheet was mentioned on 3As by L'eau Froide.
It was said her body might not have been transported in the car but stuff in contact with her body were.
A thawing body would leave copious fluids trail than the minuscule that was found.
Speculating here - had she been left somewhere cold still in the blue bag, and blue bag not buried with her as too bulky and not biodegradable and the blue bag placed in car boot to be taken farther away for discarding then a damp bag could leave fluid in minuscule amount.

Personally I don't see them involving a relative outsider in their secret; else why throw him under the bus, angering him and risk all sorts.

Some believed he was paid off for his silence but I think he was compensated well for agreeing not to sue those who fingered him.
He might have known some of them and had helped them in an inadvertently indirect way but I doubt he was in the know.
Had they involved him they will always be at his mercy in future, Plus there is no guarantee he would keep to his side of the bargain even after bought his silence.

I agree he could be a liability in respect of keeping quiet, but I was thinking along the lines of what was on his computer and obviously what he was `into` - its enough for him to be putty in anyone`s hands.
I know there`s nothing in the files but GA reckons on freezing. This wouldn`t mean frozen solid - it would just mean keeping at a temperature low enough to slow down decomposition as in the morgue.

by 1soapy 25.05.14 1:17

So an ordinary BBQ or tin oil barrel (like picketers use) could generate enough heat to powder bones? Wow. I can see how a freezer, (to delay) followed by cremation or other option could work.

Not so sure about sand. If you have the Sahara desert in an area without much wind and a pinpoint satnav to go back to it, then yes. But I’d imagine it too risky on a beach or even to remove a large amount of sand to put, say in a box. I may be underestimating the deserted space available that is unlikely to be uncovered by a person, dog, police, amateur investigators or the elements though.

And if this wasn't all pre-planned, it would explain, in the simplest terms, a scenario which seems pretty safe in the time frame given for planning it.

by **Hobs** 25.05.14 3:02

Even in crematoriums the heat is not sufficient to turn a whole human body into ash.

The bones and teeth will remain in parts and have to be ground down in a cremulator before being placed in the urn.

This is how bodies are often indentified after being burnt either via an accident or to cover up evidence of a crime.

There are sufficient bones to assist with DNA and teeth which are the hardest parts of the body and would remain intact even after cremation unless ground down using a cremulator.

If they cremated Maddie, there would be evidence such as her teeth left at the site

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by 1soapy 25.05.14 3:49

I imagined it would take some serious heat to bring bone to ashes (beyond the BBQ type heat) and I would also imagine teeth would be the most difficult to break down, but I would assume that they would be easy to remove and dispose of or even keep. Is there an acid or chemical that could melt bone? There is a European doctor who controversially did post-mortem’s live on TV. He made money out of inventing the concept of preserving the blood vessel system by inserting a chemical which then solidified and melted everything else away, thus just leaving the mould of the blood vessels, (like the BBC rabbit warren excavation documentary if you’ve seen that). I think the idea of a body being buried with or amongst animal or human remains (or on a dump or very smelly or contaminated area?) has been discussed elsewhere and this may be going off topic now or needs to find an existing thread. [where/how would you dispose of a body?].

by aiyoyo 25.05.14 3:51

[quote="Woofer"]
I agree he could be a liability in respect of keeping quiet, but I was thinking along the lines of what was on his computer and obviously what he was `into` - its enough for him to be putty in anyone`s hands.

He'd no reason to be concerned about his PC contents since he did not reckon to be given a going over caused by an unfortunate identity mishap. That goes to show had he been involved in their criminality he would have deleted the contents just in case.

I know there`s nothing in the files but GA reckons on freezing. This wouldn`t mean frozen solid - it would just mean keeping at a temperature low enough to slow down decomposition as in the morgue.

I dont remember reading GA reckons on a freezer. From the fluids the conclusion was she had been kept in temperature that slows down decomposition, assuming refrigeration type temperature, but no specific was given as to the device.
Unless Gerry stumbled upon an empty apt that had a freezer in it, I can't see 'you know who' allowing him to store a dead body in a chiller belonging to him or to someone he knows, or that chiller had to be thrown away after that.

Also you have to wonder why GA did not check out the unoccupied apartments in the vicinity if he'd sussed out about the freezer as storage.

/quote]

by 1soapy 25.05.14 4:07

Here's a bit on the doctor - an atheist who did a documentary recreating the crucifixion with a real person on a cross. Having looked at it, I think it would be pushing boundaries of imagination if this were a method used, even by doctors, but people get ideas from all sorts of sources, e.g. books, TV, film, dreaming up idea or perhaps just seeing a place and thinking of how something similar could be used.

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by Bishop Brennan 25.05.14 4:53

PeterMac wrote:
Or to a freezer. Far safer than half buried.
Also some distance away from PdL. But not very far.

And all done in the time it takes for a Ruptured Achilles Tendon to heal (with miraculous intervention )

I believe that this remains the most persuasive explanation of all. If GM was looking to hide her body, then the afternoon of the 3rd, dressed in tennis gear and carrying a blue sports bag while walking off his ruptured achilles fits the bill. Leaving aside the tricky "which freezer and whose is it" question - it suggests that Maddie's final resting place will be a LONG way from PdL. The upcoming local 'dig' therefore is either a photo-shoot, or else a search for related items (blue bags / clothing / blankets / toothbrush). Finding Blue Bag would be a genuine breakthrough event, but a bag is quite an easy thing to dispose of. My bet therefore remains on 'photo-shoot' and finding nothing at all of value.

Meanwhile - hopefully the PJ have some theories about the freezer - its location and its ownership. At least one of Blue Bag, body, toothbrush or freezer really has to be found in order for this case to close.

by aiyoyo 25.05.14 5:40

Bishop Brennan wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Or to a freezer. Far safer than half buried.
Also some distance away from PdL. But not very far.

And all done in the time it takes for a Ruptured Achilles Tendon to heal (with miraculous intervention )

I believe that this remains the most persuasive explanation of all. If GM was looking to hide her body, then the afternoon of the 3rd, dressed in tennis gear and carrying a blue sports bag while walking off his ruptured achilles fits the bill. Leaving aside the tricky "which freezer and whose is it" question - it suggests that Maddie's final resting place will be a LONG way from PdL. The upcoming local 'dig' therefore is either a photo-shoot, or else a search for related items (blue bags / clothing / blankets / toothbrush). Finding Blue Bag would be a genuine breakthrough event, but a bag is quite an easy thing to dispose of. My bet therefore remains on 'photo-shoot' and finding nothing at all of value.

Meanwhile - hopefully the PJ have some theories about the freezer - its location and its ownership. At least one of Blue Bag, body, toothbrush or freezer really has to be found in order for this case to close.

Would they need to bring in industrial digger to look for items instead of body?
Those mentioned items are easy to dispose off and would have ended in a land fill long ago.
Chances of finding the body if using phone forensics may be marginally higher than chances of finding those items.
Bringing in ground detection radar, digger, and dogs just for photo shoot is just wasteful of time and money.
About the freezer, if the PJ had an inkling where the freezer could possibly be, would they not have accessed that first before the excavation if it was not already thrown away. The freezer might just be a myth.

But yeah Gerry worked those raptured achilles on the 3rd on his day out of the resort. He couldn't have gone too far because he made it back in time for purpose.

by lj 25.05.14 6:57

aiyoyo wrote:
lj wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
della70 wrote:According to The Sun is days away .http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5644494/Maddie-arrests-days-away-in-huge-cop-search-in-Portugal.html

I wonder who their source is for that as they state 'arrests days away'. So are they digging or arresting...or both?!

I'm 99.9% sure it's proberbly rubbish though.

Who of those brilliant SY higher ups said a week or 3 ago they had the names of the suspects?

Police Commissioner isn't it ?

I thought so.

by lj 25.05.14 7:09

1soapy wrote:Is it possible to destroy/dispose of a body as well as can be done in a proper cremation? For example, what temperature is required to destroy bone or render it to ashes? Could a body be sliced up so small as to be dispersed in a field or mixed with peat or spread at sea? Would a weighted body dropped somewhere in water be effective? Are there other ways to confidently or effectively dispose of a body, with or without professional people or gadgets? Could any of these or other possibilities be being pursued by authorities in the current search/proposed digging phase? I find it hard to see some of these being done by family and hard to see how the risk of involving others would be taken, though the former seems more likely if performed by someone with the right temperament and a realistic view of what the future might hold if it wasn’t done.

Yes it can, but it takes time and a very disengaged mentality. I just cannot see them do that. In the past there have been suggestions that maybe they fed Madeleine to the pigs. That was in the time of ugly man being a maybe suspect. I belief he had a farm. I have sometimes thought that all those stories about the dogs indicated that maybe they left her on a spot where the dogs could get to her.
But again I just don't see them do that.

I think that the decisions in the beginning were very much influenced by alcohol. I know Peter M, doctors have an enormous tolerance, but not slurring does not mean making sensible decisions. I think it was very much panic football, and much later came the phase of trying to make sense and clean up.

All just my opinion

by Bishop Brennan 25.05.14 7:56

aiyoyo wrote:
Would they need to bring in industrial digger to look for items instead of body?
Those mentioned items are easy to dispose off and would have ended in a land fill long ago.
Chances of finding the body if using phone forensics may be marginally higher than chances of finding those items.
Bringing in ground detection radar, digger, and dogs just for photo shoot is just wasteful of time and money.
About the freezer, if the PJ had an inkling where the freezer could possibly be, would they not have accessed that first before the excavation if it was not already thrown away. The freezer might just be a myth.

But yeah Gerry worked those raptured achilles on the 3rd on his day out of the resort. He couldn't have gone too far because he made it back in time for purpose.

No indeed! A small trowel would be quite sufficient. And as you say, small items would have been put into a local bin and been land-filled without trace long long ago. Bringing in such expensive resources for a random dig and photo-party does seem very wasteful, but then again if they've powered their way through £7m so far, then spending another £70k or so (a mere 1% budget increase) for a grand-finale might well have been signed off.

The freezer seems to be part myth, part plausible explanation. GA remains keen on the 'cold storage' theory - and it does seem the only way to bridge the timeframe between Gerry's afternoon walk on the 3rd, and the scenic some 20+ days later. Grizzly stuff though.

by aiyoyo 25.05.14 9:05

Bishop Brennan wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
Would they need to bring in industrial digger to look for items instead of body?
Those mentioned items are easy to dispose off and would have ended in a land fill long ago.
Chances of finding the body if using phone forensics may be marginally higher than chances of finding those items.
Bringing in ground detection radar, digger, and dogs just for photo shoot is just wasteful of time and money.
About the freezer, if the PJ had an inkling where the freezer could possibly be, would they not have accessed that first before the excavation if it was not already thrown away. The freezer might just be a myth.

But yeah Gerry worked those raptured achilles on the 3rd on his day out of the resort. He couldn't have gone too far because he made it back in time for purpose.

No indeed! A small trowel would be quite sufficient. And as you say, small items would have been put into a local bin and been land-filled without trace long long ago. Bringing in such expensive resources for a random dig and photo-party does seem very wasteful, but then again if they've powered their way through £7m so far, then spending another £70k or so (a mere 1% budget increase) for a grand-finale might well have been signed off.

The freezer seems to be part myth, part plausible explanation. GA remains keen on the 'cold storage' theory - and it does seem the only way to bridge the timeframe between Gerry's afternoon walk on the 3rd, and the scenic some 20+ days later. Grizzly stuff though.

Read elsewhere industrial equipment will be brought in for dig, meaning they are thinking seriously
hard solid ground, could even be concrete ......! God only knows what's cooking but hopefully they know what they are doing.

Freezer used or not, it would have to be some kind of 'cold storage' device bridging the interim period of the temporary and permanent resting spots.

by Atomic Peanut 25.05.14 9:26

Q: Why would you announce, in a blaze of publicity, that big things are about to happen?

A: To study the reaction and movements of those who might have an interest in those developments.

by **Tony Bennett** 25.05.14 9:31

Atomic Peanut wrote:Q: Why would you announce, in a blaze of publicity, that big things are about to happen?

~~A: To study the reaction and movements of those who might have an interest in those developments.~~

A. (a) To continue with the official narrative that has been promoted since Day One, (b) to impress the public, and (c) to justify the current £7.6 million expenditure by SY which has actually found...nothing

But it's OK, Atomic Peanut, I understand why you are here

by Atomic Peanut 25.05.14 9:37

Which is what, exactly, in your view?

by Woofer 25.05.14 9:49

aiyoyo wrote:
Woofer wrote:
I agree he could be a liability in respect of keeping quiet, but I was thinking along the lines of what was on his computer and obviously what he was `into` - its enough for him to be putty in anyone`s hands.

He'd no reason to be concerned about his PC contents since he did not reckon to be given a going over caused by an unfortunate identity mishap. That goes to show had he been involved in their criminality he would have deleted the contents just in case.

I know there`s nothing in the files but GA reckons on freezing. This wouldn`t mean frozen solid - it would just mean keeping at a temperature low enough to slow down decomposition as in the morgue.

I dont remember reading GA reckons on a freezer. From the fluids the conclusion was she had been kept in temperature that slows down decomposition, assuming refrigeration type temperature, but no specific was given as to the device.
Unless Gerry stumbled upon an empty apt that had a freezer in it, I can't see 'you know who' allowing him to store a dead body in a chiller belonging to him or to someone he knows, or that chiller had to be thrown away after that.

Also you have to wonder why GA did not check out the unoccupied apartments in the vicinity if he'd sussed out about the freezer as storage.

/quote]

Freezing, frozen or whatever - I can`t remember the exact word GA used, but I doubt it was frozen solid as in a home freezer - that would cause all sorts of problems for removal. Even if chilled, leakages are going to occur, particularly from head and rear end and would easily filter through a sports bag.

I`m not suggesting `you know who` necessarily knew of the location of apartments with chillers/freezers but he would know of corrupt undertakers who would store a body - they would never grass. And ... there are corrupt undertakers, believe me. Just saying.

I agree, if it crossed GA`s mind that she was frozen/chilled or whatever and `you know who` also being a suspect at the time, were apartments checked - I doubt it.

by Angelique 25.05.14 10:01

aiyoyo

"Read elsewhere industrial equipment will be brought in for dig, meaning they are thinking seriously
hard solid ground, could even be concrete ......! God only knows what's cooking but hopefully they know what they are doing."

Could it be the roadworks being carried out at the time ?

by Guest 25.05.14 10:05

1soapy wrote:Here's a bit on the doctor - an atheist who did a documentary recreating the crucifixion with a real person on a cross. Having looked at it, I think it would be pushing boundaries of imagination if this were a method used, even by doctors, but people get ideas from all sorts of sources, e.g. books, TV, film, ...

I have often wondered, and have come to believe to be likely, that a source of inspiration could have been Phil's husband and their knowledge of his horrible fetish as a location for the final resting place. Prior to hearing about his predilection I had already come to the conclusion that a swampy bog would be a fitting place for Gerry's "Find the body..." challenge. When the revelation of the nature of Phil's husband's 'artwork' came to light the question mark was firmly slotted into place in my own mind.

As for an interim location, would the church vaults be cool enough to slow down decomposition to the extent Dr Amaral believes was necessary to leave the type of fluids recovered from the car?

As ever, just my own speculation.

by Monty Heck 25.05.14 10:27

Dee Coy wrote:
1soapy wrote:Here's a bit on the doctor - an atheist who did a documentary recreating the crucifixion with a real person on a cross. Having looked at it, I think it would be pushing boundaries of imagination if this were a method used, even by doctors, but people get ideas from all sorts of sources, e.g. books, TV, film, ...
I have often wondered, and have come to believe to be likely, that a source of inspiration could have been Phil's husband and their knowledge of his horrible fetish as a location for the final resting place. Prior to hearing about his predilection I had already come to the conclusion that a swampy bog would be a fitting place for Gerry's "Find the body..." challenge. When the revelation of the nature of Phil's husband's 'artwork' came to light the question mark was firmly slotted into place in my own mind.

As for an interim location, would the church vaults be cool enough to slow down decomposition to the extent Dr Amaral believes was necessary to leave the type of fluids recovered from the car?

As ever, just my own speculation.

The church seems to be a simply constructed, rural building without vaults or basement. Swampy bogs would be pretty non existent in the Algarve, however on the River Arade just north of Portimao is quite an extensive area of saltmarsh [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

by aiyoyo 25.05.14 10:36

Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

"Read elsewhere industrial equipment will be brought in for dig, meaning they are thinking seriously
hard solid ground, could even be concrete ......! God only knows what's cooking but hopefully they know what they are doing."

Could it be the roadworks being carried out at the time ?

Could well be.
If they are going by phone forensics, witnesses account, etc they should have a basis when deciding on venues to dig.....

by aiyoyo 25.05.14 10:44

Woofer wrote:
Freezing, frozen or whatever - I can`t remember the exact word GA used, but I doubt it was frozen solid as in a home freezer - that would cause all sorts of problems for removal. Even if chilled, leakages are going to occur, particularly from head and rear end and would easily filter through a sports bag.

I`m not suggesting `you know who` necessarily knew of the location of apartments with chillers/freezers but he would know of corrupt undertakers who would store a body - they would never grass. And ... there are corrupt undertakers, believe me. Just saying.

I agree, if it crossed GA`s mind that she was frozen/chilled or whatever and `you know who` also being a suspect at the time, were apartments checked - I doubt it.

Yes, I can believe there are corrupt undertakers...if the price is right !

Chilled will not stop decomposition, slow it down maybe, but stop - don't think so.
Think meat kept in home fridge there is still a limited shelf life (used-by date).
There will be odour problem, so either it has to semi solid or she was moved pretty quickly from store to grave, and it wont be the 25 days lapse time, just MO.

by TozerDerry 25.05.14 11:03

aiyoyo wrote:
Woofer wrote:
Freezing, frozen or whatever - I can`t remember the exact word GA used, but I doubt it was frozen solid as in a home freezer - that would cause all sorts of problems for removal. Even if chilled, leakages are going to occur, particularly from head and rear end and would easily filter through a sports bag.

I`m not suggesting `you know who` necessarily knew of the location of apartments with chillers/freezers but he would know of corrupt undertakers who would store a body - they would never grass. And ... there are corrupt undertakers, believe me. Just saying.

I agree, if it crossed GA`s mind that she was frozen/chilled or whatever and `you know who` also being a suspect at the time, were apartments checked - I doubt it.

Yes, I can believe there are corrupt undertakers...if the price is right !

Chilled will not stop decomposition, slow it down maybe, but stop - don't think so.
Think meat kept in home fridge there is still a limited shelf life (used-by date).
There will be odour problem, so either it has to semi solid or she was moved pretty quickly from store to grave, and it wont be the 25 days lapse time, just MO.

Chilling is the standard procedure for storing corpses short term. Anything much more than a week requires further measures before burial, but with delayed autopsies, chilling can continue for weeks or even months

by Bishop Brennan 25.05.14 11:15

aiyoyo wrote:
Could well be.
If they are going by phone forensics, witnesses account, etc they should have a basis when deciding on venues to dig.....

If this is a genuine search.... (A very BIG if....) but let's run with it. Then:

1. She died in 5A and was hastily buried in PDL between 9:55pm (Smith sighting) and 10:00pm (start of search) OR
2. She was taken from 5A, killed at some later point and buried in PDL OR
3. She died early on the 3rd, and was taken by Gerry in a Blue Bag when walking off his achilles heel. Buried or stored in a freezer somewhere in or near to PDL.

Option 1 is impossible. There just isn't time. Even if we allow the full 9:15pm to 10:00pm timeframe, there still isn't time.
Option 2 is improbable (but seems to be the line SY is pushing). How could she be buried when the world was looking for her...?
Option 3 is PM's (and others) main theory. However it is not allowed by SY. And it's more probable that she was moved to somewhere very remote at a later date.

As such, even if they trumpet phone forensics / witnesses etc, then of those that are known, NONE indicate that a search in PDL will be of any use. So that takes us back to photo-party / double-checking on the 'useless' PJ / grand finale. PDL is probably the one place she can't be...

ETA: If they start searching way outside PDL, well then perhaps they have a chance - a phone pinging where it shouldn't for example. But even so, that would be a long long shot. If GA is right and her body was moved by car, then she could be ANYWHERE (within the radius of the car's range).

by nobodythereeither 25.05.14 11:18

Tony Bennett wrote:
Atomic Peanut wrote:Q: Why would you announce, in a blaze of publicity, that big things are about to happen?

~~A: To study the reaction and movements of those who might have an interest in those developments.~~

A. (a) To continue with the official narrative that has been promoted since Day One, (b) to impress the public, and (c) to justify the current £7.6 million expenditure by SY which has actually found...nothing

And you know that SY have "found nothing" - how?

ETA: There are a lot of people on here who seem to think they know exactly what SY are and aren't doing, and what they have/haven't found.

I'd love to know where they are getting this information from.