Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

aiyoyo wrote:

Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

"Read elsewhere industrial equipment will be brought in for dig, meaning they are thinking seriously
hard solid ground, could even be concrete ......! God only knows what's cooking but hopefully they know what they are doing."

Could it be the roadworks being carried out at the time ?

Could well be.
If they are going by phone forensics, witnesses account, etc they should have a basis when deciding on venues to dig.....

Or perhaps local residences? There must have been properties under going 'home improvements' at the time - extensions being built, new swimming pools being put in place, patios being laid.

There are 3 places in PdL she could possibly be, none of which involve digging. In order of liklihood (imo):

- The graveyard or church.

- Weighted at the bottom of the sea.

- Buried or hidden under or in a private house.

As you need no diggers to uncover any of these options we can only conclude it is other evidence they are looking for or it's all a ruse and pantomime.

Murat is quiet considering he had a lot to say in the first place, just wonder if they will dig his drive .

Lance De Boils wrote:
Or perhaps local residences? There must have been properties under going 'home improvements' at the time - extensions being built, new swimming pools being put in place, patios being laid.

Yikes! That's a lot of digging up to do... I'm guessing the householders of PDL will be just a trifle miffed when SY appear with a giant digger: "Just checking under your pool / extension / patio, sir - shouldn't be long.'   

If they don't have a specific tip, then digging is probably the most pointless exercise imaginable. I'm still not convinced it will happen. Perhaps some plods wandering around with "ground radars" and then reporting that there were no leads. Unless AR is continuing his Grange suspect technique - "let's dig up everywhere in PDL just to eliminate each patch of ground from our enquiries..."

nobodythereeither wrote:ETA: There are a lot of people on here who seem to think they know exactly what SY are and aren't doing, and what they have/haven't found.

 I'd love to know where they are getting this information from.

 I agree. There are some posters here that may have more professional experience than others but at the end of the day we are all speculating and theorising because very little has actually been confirmed or denied by SY.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:
Could well be.
If they are going by phone forensics, witnesses account, etc they should have a basis when deciding on venues to dig.....

If this is a genuine search.... (A very BIG if....) but let's run with it.  Then:

1. She died in 5A and was hastily buried in PDL between 9:55pm  (Smith sighting) and 10:00pm (start of search)  OR
2. She was taken from 5A, killed at some later point and buried in PDL   OR
3. She died early on the 3rd, and was taken by Gerry in a Blue Bag when walking off his achilles heel. Buried or stored in a freezer somewhere in or near to PDL.

Option 1 is impossible. There just isn't time.  Even if we allow the full 9:15pm to 10:00pm timeframe, there still isn't time.  
Option 2 is improbable (but seems to be the line SY is pushing).  How could she be buried when the world was looking for her...?
Option 3 is PM's (and others) main theory.   However it is not allowed by SY.  And it's more probable that she was moved to somewhere very remote at a later date.

As such, even if they trumpet phone forensics / witnesses etc, then of those that are known, NONE indicate that a search in PDL will be of any use.  So that takes us back to photo-party / double-checking on the 'useless' PJ / grand finale.  PDL is probably the one place she can't be...

ETA:  If they start searching way outside PDL, well then perhaps they have a chance - a phone pinging where it shouldn't for example.  But even so, that would be a long long shot. If GA is right and her body was moved by car, then she could be ANYWHERE (within the radius of the car's range).

How do you know it's not allowed by SY? Redwood also said Maddie leaving the apartment alive may not follow with their thinking.

NickE wrote:

biggles wrote:@canada12, @daffodil

Maybe there is no body.. perhaps it was cremated? That would explain why gerry is so confident that the body will not be found. I'm sure I remember reading about a vetinary in the PDL area that the body could have been taken to for the purposes of cremation, or was that discounted? Did I imagine that maybe? Agree with the freezer hypothesis.

Someone,correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have in mind that Roman Catholics do not practice cremation? 
or?

I've been to a fair few Catholic cremations.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:
Or perhaps local residences? There must have been properties under going 'home improvements' at the time - extensions being built, new swimming pools being put in place, patios being laid.

Yikes!  That's a lot of digging up to do...   I'm guessing the householders of PDL will be just a trifle miffed when SY appear with a giant digger:  "Just checking under your pool / extension / patio, sir - shouldn't be long.'       

If they don't have a specific tip, then digging is probably the most pointless exercise imaginable.  I'm still not convinced it will happen.  Perhaps some plods wandering around with "ground radars" and then reporting that there were no leads.   Unless AR is continuing his Grange suspect technique - "let's dig up everywhere in PDL just to eliminate each patch of ground from our enquiries..."

They don't seem in any hurry about the digs isn't it unless logistics is being worked on.
They can't have much to go on if they'd to dig.
It would mean having to 'find the body and proved they killed her' (as pat titled her latest blog) else they dont have anything that anyone can buy.  AC Mark Rowley may have to wag his tail all the way to the Mccanns with the second best saying "sorry, we did everything, but alas......"

ChippyM wrote:

nobodythereeither wrote:ETA: There are a lot of people on here who seem to think they know exactly what SY are and aren't doing, and what they have/haven't found.

 I'd love to know where they are getting this information from.

 I agree. There are some posters here that may have more professional experience than others but at the end of the day we are all speculating and theorising because very little has actually been confirmed or denied by SY.

I agree too. We've actually got a review turned into a full blown investigation, K & G looking terrified and digging in Portugal yet some still say whitewash. I just don't see it.

Also, none of these places that are bring dug up have ever been linked to one of the phoney abductors, yet the Mccanns had keys to the church (one Portuguese poster said it was land by the church being dug up) and the beach where Gerry went looking that night.

margaret wrote:
How do you know it's not allowed by SY? Redwood also said Maddie leaving the apartment alive may not follow with their thinking.

Right. So option 1 or 3. But, SY have said from day 1 that the parents / T7 are not suspects; they have been updating them regularly; they have not reinterviewed any of the T9; senior SY officers have rubbished the idea on radio. Right now, the McCann's are outside of the SY investigative remit based on ALL the information and evidence given by AR and all of his superiors. It would require a major bit of evidence to be discovered (probably by PJ) to persuade them otherwise.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:
Or perhaps local residences? There must have been properties under going 'home improvements' at the time - extensions being built, new swimming pools being put in place, patios being laid.

Yikes!  That's a lot of digging up to do...   I'm guessing the householders of PDL will be just a trifle miffed when SY appear with a giant digger:  "Just checking under your pool / extension / patio, sir - shouldn't be long.'       

If they don't have a specific tip, then digging is probably the most pointless exercise imaginable.  I'm still not convinced it will happen.  Perhaps some plods wandering around with "ground radars" and then reporting that there were no leads.   Unless AR is continuing his Grange suspect technique - "let's dig up everywhere in PDL just to eliminate each patch of ground from our enquiries..."

Ha! True.

However, I was thinking along the lines of people they knew. Local contacts. Just speculating.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

Lance De Boils wrote:
Or perhaps local residences? There must have been properties under going 'home improvements' at the time - extensions being built, new swimming pools being put in place, patios being laid.

Yikes!  That's a lot of digging up to do...   I'm guessing the householders of PDL will be just a trifle miffed when SY appear with a giant digger:  "Just checking under your pool / extension / patio, sir - shouldn't be long.'       

If they don't have a specific tip, then digging is probably the most pointless exercise imaginable.  I'm still not convinced it will happen.  Perhaps some plods wandering around with "ground radars" and then reporting that there were no leads.   Unless AR is continuing his Grange suspect technique - "let's dig up everywhere in PDL just to eliminate each patch of ground from our enquiries..."

I'm not convince digging will happen either. SY have never stated they would be 'digging'. It was a McCann source that reported the town would have bulldozers all over it, the person that provided that info. no doubt has an ulterior motive.

  "
They will then move in with mechanical diggers and other earth-moving equipment. Finger-tip searches will also be used.
A source close the McCanns said it will be a ‘heart-breaking and hugely emotional time’ for the family.
‘Police have assured Kate and Gerry that it does not mean they are specifically searching for her body,’ he said.

I'm hoping the digs find something that will enable the pj to blow everything out in the open. Maybe they're just waiting for that final piece of the puzzle that og has unknowingly given to them. Mr A seemed sure back then that the truth will be found eventually. IMO  

Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

If this is a genuine search.... (A very BIG if....) but let's run with it.  Then:

1. She died in 5A and was hastily buried in PDL between 9:55pm  (Smith sighting) and 10:00pm (start of search)  OR
2. She was taken from 5A, killed at some later point and buried in PDL   OR
3. She died early on the 3rd, and was taken by Gerry in a Blue Bag when walking off his achilles heel. Buried or stored in a freezer somewhere in or near to PDL.

Option 1 is impossible. There just isn't time.  Even if we allow the full 9:15pm to 10:00pm timeframe, there still isn't time.  
Option 2 is improbable (but seems to be the line SY is pushing).  How could she be buried when the world was looking for her...?
Option 3 is PM's (and others) main theory.   However it is not allowed by SY.  And it's more probable that she was moved to somewhere very remote at a later date.

As such, even if they trumpet phone forensics / witnesses etc, then of those that are known, NONE indicate that a search in PDL will be of any use.  So that takes us back to photo-party / double-checking on the 'useless' PJ / grand finale.  PDL is probably the one place she can't be...

ETA:  If they start searching way outside PDL, well then perhaps they have a chance - a phone pinging where it shouldn't for example.  But even so, that would be a long long shot. If GA is right and her body was moved by car, then she could be ANYWHERE (within the radius of the car's range).

Good analysis !
Option 3 most plausible.
Could be partially photo galore, partially fun fare, and partially try our luck .....might beget a windfall.
Not sure you're right that GA posits her body was moved by car.  FAICR, he believes stuff in contact with her body at the very least must have been transported in the car, not sure he mentions body as a certainty.
I will take venues printed in the papers with large pinch of salt.  The papers haven't a clue as the Police would not have told them anything on operational matters.
There might be some decoy venues to distract nosy parkers, and the real digs will be somewhere else away from media pry but hard to hide a JCB digger....that's for sure.

MarleneP wrote:Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Yes, a metal sheet, hence they knew she was kept in a coldish place.
They knew more than we think.....just hope MET follow them through.

aiyoyo wrote:

MarleneP wrote:Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Yes, a metal sheet, hence they knew she was kept in a coldish place.
They knew more than we think.....just hope MET follow them through.

No, wasn't it a remote farm building where a towel with an Aztec print was found. The same towels were also used at the ocean club. ETA, weren't they?

margaret wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

MarleneP wrote:Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Yes, a metal sheet, hence they knew she was kept in a coldish place.
They knew more than we think.....just hope MET follow them through.

No, wasn't it a remote farm building where a towel with an Aztec print was found. The same towels were also used at the ocean club.

I think you've gone too far stating it was the same as used by the OC, was that ever confirmed?

Bishop Brennan wrote:

margaret wrote:
How do you know it's not allowed by SY? Redwood also said Maddie leaving the apartment alive may not follow with their thinking.

Right. So option 1 or 3.   But, SY have said from day 1 that the parents / T7 are not suspects; they have been updating them regularly; they have not reinterviewed any of the T9; senior SY officers have rubbished the idea on radio.   Right now, the McCann's are outside of the SY investigative remit based on ALL the information and evidence given by AR and all of his superiors.  It would require a major bit of evidence to be discovered (probably by PJ) to persuade them otherwise.
 

I thought they only said they were not suspects at the beginning, and that was to satisfy the press and not cause a media storm. We don't know if they have re interviewed the tapas lot and we probably wouldn't be told the truth if they had, as for keeping the Mccanns informed to what extent? We don't know, they could be hold the bare minimum but you could still say they had 'been informed.'

One thing SY are keen to do is not have speculation in the press to jeopardise justice, they said as much about the digs. IMO that ties in with trying to catch the Mccanns. If it was anyone else you'd think arresting them and hauling them in they might talk, so why do the digs before arrest? Is it because they know the suspects won't admit anything unless there's irrefutable evidence tying them to maddies disappearance?

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
I think you've gone too far stating it was the same as used by the OC, was that ever confirmed?

Have l? Well I've corrected it just in case admins feel the same.

margaret wrote:

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
I think you've gone too far stating it was the same as used by the OC, was that ever confirmed?

Have l? Well I've corrected it just in case admins feel the same.

Sorry I didn't mean in a libelous way just that the link between the towel and the OC hasn't been proven afaik

I just found a thread on the subject. Very interesting ... close to 5A ... is not where to be dug?

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There was also mention of a derelict outbuilding close to 5A in which suspicious materials were found. The OP sounds like a conflation of this and the barn with the aztec towel.

Hongkong Phooey wrote:

margaret wrote:

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
I think you've gone too far stating it was the same as used by the OC, was that ever confirmed?

Have l? Well I've corrected it just in case admins feel the same.

Sorry I didn't mean in a libelous way just that the link between the towel and the OC hasn't been proven afaik

Ah cheers, l thought you were being funny.   

Dee Coy wrote:

1soapy wrote:Here's a bit on the doctor - an atheist who did a documentary recreating the crucifixion with a real person on a cross. Having looked at it, I think it would be pushing boundaries of imagination if this were a method used, even by doctors, but people get ideas from all sorts of sources, e.g. books, TV, film, ...

I have often wondered, and have come to believe to be likely, that a source of inspiration could have been Phil's husband and their knowledge of his horrible fetish as a location for the final resting place. Prior to hearing about his predilection I had already come to the conclusion that a swampy bog would be a fitting place for Gerry's "Find the body..." challenge. When the revelation of the nature of Phil's husband's 'artwork' came to light the question mark was firmly slotted into place in my own mind.

As for an interim location,  would the church vaults be cool enough to slow down decomposition to the extent Dr Amaral believes was necessary to leave the type of fluids recovered from the car?

As ever, just my own speculation.

I had wondered that too. It's scary and I know because I recently stood in "mud" by a spring and was immediately up to my knees and struggling. Managed to lean sideways and got out. Daughter came and retrieved my shoe. So I have just looked on net for info.
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shows that body will not go under / lower than waist or chest level, as long as a good amount of air is kept in the lungs since that part of the body is less dense than the quicksand.
People die because they get cold and exhausted or because the tide might come in as in the cockle beds and those poor Chinese people in Morecombe Bay.
If you lie backwards you can sort of float and slowly get one leg out, then the next and row backwards with arms to edge and hard land. May take a long time, but panicking is not good, relaxing and keeping lungs inflated helps.
So, could a dead body be 'lost' in a quicksand. Well, if the chest cavity is not full of air, or if it were more dense because it was just 'pieces', the question would be, would it stay below the surface if it were say, pushed down deep with a long stick. Density seems to be the deciding factor with quicksands.
Re the mummification suggestion elsewhere, by burying in sand. Well at the top of the Rocha Negra is the trig point and just beyond, the golf course, with of course, its sand thingies. I don't play golf... Could a sports bag carry X item to such sand patches, get easily dug, and body 'lost'.
Would the wild dogs in the area nose anything out though and dispose of what they found.
Risk being that some parts might be left on the surface after the dogs had dug.
Cremation at a bar b q / fire in the woods etc. would be difficult.
The smell of burning flesh as in hair or even burning chicken quarters, travels for miles on the wind, so there'd be no secret.
What were those strange maps left under the sofa by Justine McGuinness, way up in the woods a couple of hours away by car ?
Would hungry wild foxes, dogs, badgers, maggots etc. be able to dispose of remains before they were discovered.
It's not as though we've got info that either the PJ or the MET (if they care to look at it and on this site) don't also have access to.
There's no doubt that if the sniffer dogs signalled, and at that spot, blood was also found which, before the UK forensic labs 'changed' the results, indicated Maddie's blood, and that means that the McCs with their time lines are not yet in the clear.
The challenge, 'find the body' seems to suggest some confidence.
Finding 'other signs' however could pose a problem to such confidence.
Perhaps that's why the smiles have lapsed a bit lately and more recent photos looked 'troubled'.
Even if the MET fail to 'find' anything, I don't believe the Portuguese will be prepared to have their dignity sullied again and of course, the new Portuguese police files will also be made public, referring even possibly to the 'co-ordinated' work with the UK MET revealing some of the inner thoughts and agenda of the MET.
I continue to live in hope that the truth is more bouyant than quicksand.  

Atomic Peanut wrote:Which is what, exactly, in your view?

I think that's abundantly clear from your 23 posts to date since joining here on 7 May, just over two weeks ago.

Your first three posts (or 13% of your posts) basically welcomed the proposal to send another set of dogs to Praia da Luz, over 7 years after Madeleine's reported disappearance. In one of those posts, you proffered this (IMO ludicrous) opinion:

"It's surprising that a second pair of dogs wasn't sent into 5A back in August 2007 as a back-up to Eddie and Keela".

Martin Grime, head-hunted by the F.B.I. and now working for them full-time, not good enough for you, AP?

Your other 20 posts (87% of the total) all seek to persuade members of this forum, without giving us a jot of evidence, that DCI Redwood, DCSupt Hamish Campbell and the rest of the top brass of the Met are all as honest as the day is long - and that anyone who even thinks that this £7.6 million-and-counting investigation might be farcical and expensive charade is badly mistaken  

MarleneP wrote:Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Is this what you are referring to?

Sunday Newspaper Front Pages Sunday December 02, 2007 The Sunday Express leads with a picture of missing toddler Madeleine McCann. It claims DNA clues have been found at a deserted farmhouse.



Portuguese detectives discussed the breakthrough when they met British police and a Crown Prosecution Service official last week at a police station in Leicester.

Today, for the first time the Sunday Express can shed light on the new avenue police are pursuing in the hope of a breakthrough in the baffling case.

Based on fresh information from mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort. They came across a towel, with an Aztec design, near a disused barn in a remote area close to Praia da Luz.

Portuguese sources say forensic scientists used a substance called Luminol to look for blood deposits and found three sites on the edges of the towel. They tested the blood deposits to see if there was a match with Madeleine's DNA.

Although the samples were not good quality the scientists were able to do what is called low copy analysis, which showed there was "moderate” support to suggest the blood deposits matched Madeleine's blood.
The results were not conclusive and are not regarded as being strong enough to be presented as evidence in any court case.

They also found a loaf and a carrier bag, which produced no significant information, but close analysis of the towel revealed fibres which were not made of the towel material. The fibre fragments were microscopically examined against fibres found in the boot of the Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie vanished.

Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.

One possibility being considered by the Portuguese detectives was that the towel had at some point been in the boot of the Renault Scenic, which would explain how fibres had got on it.


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Markus 2 wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:

lj wrote:

ChippyM wrote:

della70 wrote:According to The Sun is days away .http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5644494/Maddie-arrests-days-away-in-huge-cop-search-in-Portugal.html

I wonder who their source is for that as they state 'arrests days away'.  So are they digging or arresting...or both?!

   I'm 99.9% sure it's proberbly rubbish though.

Who of those brilliant SY higher ups said a week or 3 ago they had the names of the suspects?

Police Commissioner isn't it ?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] So no arrests  over here then

Agreed. Also, Imo they would not be updating the Macs to the exclusion of everyone else, if they were intending to close in on them.

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With an odd choice of words, British police have announced “a substantial stage of operational activity” in the Algarve-based hunt for seven-years-missing Madeleine McCann, although they affirm they want to “keep expectations down”.
Announcing the stepping-up of the high-profile police search, Assistant Police Commissioner Mark Rowley told reporters: “You shouldn't read into this that this is necessarily an end game or about to be a breakthrough of anything like that."
What it does indicate, nonetheless, is that Portuguese and British police forces are now working in tandem, on the understanding that the Met doesn’t unwittingly encourage wild UK press speculation.
According to UK tabloid Daily Mirror - one of the ‘worst offenders’ when it comes to reporting sensationalist aspects of this long-running mystery - the police plan to quiz suspects and start “digging for clues” in Praia da Luz “within weeks”.
“Forensic teams will use ground-penetrating radar to examine sites where earth has been disturbed. They will then bring in diggers,” says the Mirror.
Detectives are said to be “focussing on two areas near the apartment where the McCanns stayed”.
As newspapers reported earlier this month, Met officers have already taken a series of aerial photographs of sites around the village from which three-year-old Madeleine went missing in May of 2007. But the police statement that preceded the Mirror’s story was sparing this kind of detail. It followed warnings from Portuguese counterparts that any information given out to the press could cause PJ police efforts on behalf of the Met to cease altogether.
"We have made it clear to colleagues in Portugal that we will not be giving operational updates,” Assistant Commissioner Rowley told reporters. “I appreciate this will be frustrating to you (the media) … However, if this was an investigation in London I would not be making public details of operational investigative activity that we were planning or how it might link in to the investigation.”
AC Rowley announced the news on Thursday in New Scotland Yard in front of media representatives from all over the world.
Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manhã confirmed the Mirror’s theory that police would be using geo-radar and interviewing “people of interest”, but added that they would also be “analysing mobile phone records and financial information”.
“There are various lines of investigation and we are working on all of them,” AC Rowley told CM.
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sallypelt wrote:

MarleneP wrote:Can anyone still remember (from the 3A forum) that a fabric/sheet was mentioned, which was found in a secluded house? It was a specially patterned cloth and it was seen in connection with Madeleine.

Is this what you are referring to?

Sunday Newspaper Front Pages Sunday December 02, 2007 The Sunday Express leads with a picture of missing toddler Madeleine McCann. It claims DNA clues have been found at a deserted farmhouse.



Portuguese detectives discussed the breakthrough when they met British police and a Crown Prosecution Service official last week at a police station in Leicester.

Today, for the first time the Sunday Express can shed light on the new avenue police are pursuing in the hope of a breakthrough in the baffling case.

Based on fresh information from mobile phone surveillance, police began a search of an area in the south east of the resort. They came across a towel, with an Aztec design, near a disused barn in a remote area close to Praia da Luz.

Portuguese sources say forensic scientists used a substance called Luminol to look for blood deposits and found three sites on the edges of the towel. They tested the blood deposits to see if there was a match with Madeleine's DNA.

Although the samples were not good quality the scientists were able to do what is called low copy analysis, which showed there was "moderate” support to suggest the blood deposits matched Madeleine's blood.
The results were not conclusive and are not regarded as being strong enough to be presented as evidence in any court case.

They also found a loaf and a carrier bag, which produced no significant information, but close analysis of the towel revealed fibres which were not made of the towel material. The fibre fragments were microscopically examined against fibres found in the boot of the Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie vanished.

Portuguese police sources say there was "strong support" that the fibres found on the towel matched fibres from the boot of the car.

One possibility being considered by the Portuguese detectives was that the towel had at some point been in the boot of the Renault Scenic, which would explain how fibres had got on it.


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Where was the LCN DNA analysis done. I thought that was a specialised procedure seven years ago.

The barn towel DNA story seems to be an uncorroborated Express article from December 2nd 2007. No further information.

Tony Bennett wrote:

Atomic Peanut wrote:Which is what, exactly, in your view?

I think that's abundantly clear from your 23 posts to date since joining here on 7 May, just over two weeks ago.

Your first three posts (or 13% of your posts) basically welcomed the proposal to send another set of dogs to Praia da Luz, over 7 years after Madeleine's reported disappearance. In one of those posts, you proffered this (IMO ludicrous) opinion:

"It's surprising that a second pair of dogs wasn't sent into 5A back in August 2007 as a back-up to Eddie and Keela".

Martin Grime, head-hunted by the F.B.I. and now working for them full-time, not good enough for you, AP?

Your other 20 posts (87% of the total) all seek to persuade members of this forum, without giving us a jot of evidence, that DCI Redwood, DCSupt Hamish Campbell and the rest of the top brass of the Met are all as honest as the day is long - and that anyone who even thinks that this £7.6 million-and-counting investigation might be farcical and expensive charade is badly mistaken  

 Am I reading this correctly? That if a member here does not toe the line of accepting that the Grange operation is corrupt, has any other agenda apart from discovering what happened to Madeleine and bringing anyone involved in her disappearance and [what looks like, according to the Met] death, are to be subjected to snide remarks, innuendo and insults?

 In another post Tony made what I believe was an offensive remark to Ultimathule....again because she holds an opinion which is contrary to his own.

 Before Tony's supporters jump on me about how he posts in his own name and therefore is to be beyond criticism, let me say that I admire his using his own identity, but I also know that he uses an alias on the forum and who knows if there is just one.

 Tony standing up in his own name to declare his beliefs is admirable, but what is far from admirable is his attitude towards anybody who holds a contrary view about this current investigation.

 There is no justification for the sideswipes and offensive remarks.
 Tony does not know for a fact what SY are doing and his opinion is no more valid than any other opinion on this forum.
  If this goes on members here with good contributions to make will be leaving to continue the debate elsewhere.

  eta  : imo Tony is belittling himself by his continuing bad attitude towards some members of the forum .