"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory. 

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'. 

This was key planning time. 

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh. 

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine. 

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

Kate 'allegedly' slept in the bed nearest the window, the same bed that was said to have a semen stain on the bedcover.
Was Gerry' using' the other room? Perhaps the children were elsewhere.

Ladyinred wrote:I don't believe any running activity took place.  Remember, they were all so into each other.

I thought the comments by JT about not being comfortable with GM were offered too freely as no one asked her about him IIRC.

mariola wrote:

Andrew77R wrote:

Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?

He didn't.

Simples.

I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

Nope he did not.

Simples again.

Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory. 

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'. 

This was key planning time. 

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh. 

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine. 

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

I'm not convinced of the swinging theory, or the "wheels in motion" theory :)

What day was Kate and MO's "run"?  Was it Wednesday, 2nd May?  What time was it?

Kate signed the creche records 'Kate Healy' at 17:30 on Wednesday 2nd May.

ETA - if you're planning to dispose of your dead child's body and fake an abduction, it is paramount that you be inconspicuous.  Signing the creche records under your maiden name when you've to date always signed under your married name is not being inconspicuous.

Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory. 

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'. 

This was key planning time. 

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh. 

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine. 

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

Andrew77R: I don't disagree with what you say, it's possible. 
I think we agree that Kate and MO weren't running on that day.

Ladyinred wrote:

Andrew77R wrote:I personally don't go along with this 'swinging' theory. 

Can you really see GM letting some other bloke have it away with his Mrs.... seriously??

The running episode with MO and KG. They didn't go off to have some slap and tickle somewhere. They were off putting the 'wheels in motion'. 

This was key planning time. 

MO - going for a 8 mile run, on the sand. From a guy who doesn't jog and doesn't like running. Load of tosh.

KM - Getting bit by a stray dog while out running. Load of tosh. 

Yes they were out together somewhere in PDL but IMO they were probably looking for possible hiding places, burial spots etc.

GM and KM couldn't go out together. One (GM) would have to stay and be seen around the complex enjoying tennis etc. The routine. 

Remember all this was IMO after MBM had met her fate.

Whatever they say is all tosh.

Whatever they were doing was to start putting the plan into practice.

All IMO of course.

Andrew77R: I don't disagree with what you say, it's possible. 
I think we agree that Kate and MO weren't running on that day.

Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon?  And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog?  Has he mentioned this?

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon?  And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog?  Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May. As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

missbeetle wrote:
Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

I've not heard that before. No idea :)

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

missbeetle wrote:
Was there any credence in the rumour that Kate had kipped on Murat's sofa after an argument one night?

I've not heard that before.  No idea :)

It was on this above site and thread, question 11 by Sentinel of the 3As.

Newintown wrote:

Mirage wrote:

Doug D wrote:Thanks Mirage.

I agree the move from the second OC apartment to the villa was on 2/7, but there seemed to be a suggestion of another move from a villa to another villa at some stage, but this may just be misinformation.

That's ok Doug. My understanding is that the Mcs were initially allocated another larger apartment by MW. Then, as more family arrived, they were offered a villa, gratis. But the owner then decided he wanted them out and they moved on 2nd July to the final villa which they had to pay for themselves. This is the villa where the Scenic boot was left open day after day, and where Jon Corner filmed, and from where they left abruptly in Sept when declared arguidos

It is mind-boggling re-visiting these blogs. On one day he writes of his lost daughter the following:
The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse.
He finishes the day's blog with:
I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!

But this one on 11th Aug '07 takes the bloody biscuit :

"UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO ADD PATIENCE TO OUR OTHER CHARACTERISTICS "

Hello!   Oscar Pistorius, eat your heart out!

I wonder what Gerry thinks their other characteristics are?

Suave
Persuasive
Urbane
Charming
Fragrant
Elegant
Eloquent
Understanding
Empathetic
Helpful
Obliging
Co-operative
Self-effacing
Attractive
Educated
Articulate
Self-sacrificing
Grateful
Gracious
Humble
Thankful
Wise
Child-centred (well, where every other missing child on the planet but his own is concerned)

Gerry's Memo to self: After the morning jog, must work on patience. It's the only weakness in Kate and I's characters.

Gawd's truth. Let me lie down.

They show the characteristics of two parents who have never had to go through the "abduction" of a child; they therefore have to make up all the emotions, feelings etc as they go along and get it very wrong.

Brilliant!

I have to question Empathetic though, if they had empathy they would know how normal parents would react to the loss of their child.  They were acting out what they thought parents in that situation would do, and they got it badly wrong.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon?  And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog?  Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May.  As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

Creche records for 2nd May?

@WLBTS.

Yes, it was the afternoon of Wed the 2nd. Not sure of exact times.

Yes you would need to be inconspicuous. However as they didn't have any previous for faking an abduction etc then all is not going to go to exact plan as we can tell by all the discrepancies later on. 

Inconspicuous for them would be instead of KM and GM going off together then lets have KM and MO. 

At a later date when interviewed etc then it would look a bit fishy that both Kate and Gerry disappeared for the afternoon on the day before there daughter vanished.

As for signing Healy instead of Mccann. Do we know that it was her signature or a forged one. Cant recall off the top of my head...

I'm sure she wasn't thinking straight anyway. Probably wished she still was a Healy and could turn back the clock. 

@ladyinred.

No i am certain that they were not running. Although dressed as if they were going for a run i'm sure. 

However IMO they were out there together looking and planning.

IMO of course.

@ stillsloppingout - I don`t know whether to believe your post about swingers or not - are you having a joke ?

However I do remember, a few years back, reading that Leicester NHS was rife with swingers.  I have looked for the piece many times but can`t find it.  Anyone else remember it ?  Mind you, it could be the case in many towns.  Swinging can be passed off as golf and badminton clubs or any sport where something is swung   .

There is also a golf club, can`t remember where (abroad) that is solely for golf and swinging.

One thing that has always bothered me in regards to the theory that Maddy died before the 3rd, is Kate.  I don't think Kate has any control over her emotions, I really can't see her sitting at the Tapas knowing her daughter was dead.  I'm well aware that lots of people do see this is possible, just let me be clear that it's just my feelings on the matter.

But more than that, my main cause of doubt has always been the terrifying scream that was heard by the waiter Salcedas.

Now I'm starting to think - what if the evening of the 3rd was pre-planned, but Kate didn't know about it, or even know Maddy was dead?  What if she had been too 'preoccupied' on the 3rd, hadn't even been into 5A?

I need to refer to the rogatory interview of waiter J.R.Salcedas, as I have several times before:

On the night Madeleine disappeared, everything appeared normal. I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: ?They've left you alone?? She responded more of less with these words: ?No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

I went to find Ze and Ricardo to give them the news and to get their help in searching for the missing girl. I saw the head of the Milenium Restaurant in the Tapas and asked him to telephone the restaurant.

I ran out of the Tapas and noticed that some of the childcare works of the Mark Warner had begun to arrive. At the point I left the Tapas I heard a scream from a woman I did not know. I do not know who screamed, but I had never heard a similar cry. I cannot even describe it but thought it had come from the child's mother. I went to the reception with one of the child care workers whose name I do not remember. One of the employees looked to be organizing the searches and told us the name of the child.

My previous theory had been that Kate had found Maddy's body.  However, I have had some doubts about that.  I'm now wondering whether the scream occurred when one of the Tapas group finally told Kate what had happened to Maddy, and why she wasn't in 5A.  Kate had lots of bruises on her arms, which to me look as if she had been restrained.

The later "They've taken her", and the more lurid "The f******g b******ds have taken her" make a lot of sense, if she didn't know where Maddy had been taken and by specifically whom - she is referring to the rest of the Tapas group.

I'm wondering if Kate had been considered by Gerry to be too much of a liability, and was therefore kept out of it for as long as absolutely necessary. In this theory, the 'last photo' once again makes sense, and the gathering in the Paraiso in front of the CCTVs makes sense.

Hicks wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

Kate 'allegedly' slept in the bed nearest the window, the same bed that was said to have a semen stain on the bedcover.
Was Gerry' using' the other room? Perhaps the children were elsewhere.

Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Watching wrote:
Where was Mr Wednesday afternoon?  And where was Oldfield when Mrs was bitten by dog?  Has he mentioned this?

No-one seemed particularly keen to talk about the events of the 2nd May.  As far as I can tell all we have to go on is Kate's book.

Thanks that's interesting. Wonder if GA covered this?

Andrew77R wrote:
As for signing Healy instead of Mccann. Do we know that it was her signature or a forged one. Cant recall off the top of my head...

I'm sure she wasn't thinking straight anyway. Probably wished she still was a Healy and could turn back the clock. 

Well that's possible. But it is also possible that there was marital strife, and the signature was a deliberate statement.

Woofer wrote:
Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

That's what I thought. Didn't the McCanns try to claim that it was the 2nd, but the instructor was scheduled to come in on the 1st? So it was probably the 1st.

Could a massive falling out have occurred on the Tuesday? I seem to remember a flurry of mobile phone activity from Kate that evening.

Andrew77R wrote:@WLBTS.

Yes, it was the afternoon of Wed the 2nd. Not sure of exact times.

Yes you would need to be inconspicuous. However as they didn't have any previous for faking an abduction etc then all is not going to go to exact plan as we can tell by all the discrepancies later on. 

Inconspicuous for them would be instead of KM and GM going off together then lets have KM and MO. 

At a later date when interviewed etc then it would look a bit fishy that both Kate and Gerry disappeared for the afternoon on the day before there daughter vanished.

As for signing Healy instead of Mccann. Do we know that it was her signature or a forged one. Cant recall off the top of my head...

I'm sure she wasn't thinking straight anyway. Probably wished she still was a Healy and could turn back the clock. 

@ladyinred.

No i am certain that they were not running. Although dressed as if they were going for a run i'm sure. 

However IMO they were out there together looking and planning.

IMO of course.

From McCannfiles:
4078 "Okay. Right. So, I mean, having said that you had struggled to remember what you did each day, you have done pretty well really so far, you have remembered, for example, that Rachael was unwell all day on the Wednesday, so therefore you had gone for a run with Kate. I am guessing, would that have been when Grace was asleep or?"
 
Reply "I think that was lunchtime".
 
4078 "Yeah. Do you remember what you did after your run with Kate?"
 
Reply "No, because I'd have been on, I'd have been on G**** duty I think that afternoon.

Ladyinred wrote: 
Reply "No, because I'd have been on, I'd have been on G**** duty I think that afternoon.

I don't always find forensic linguistics convincing, but that line really is a blinder.

Ladyinred wrote:

From McCannfiles:
4078 "Okay. Right. So, I mean, having said that you had struggled to remember what you did each day, you have done pretty well really so far, you have remembered, for example, that Rachael was unwell all day on the Wednesday, so therefore you had gone for a run with Kate. I am guessing, would that have been when Grace was asleep or?"
 
Reply "I think that was lunchtime".
 
4078 "Yeah. Do you remember what you did after your run with Kate?"
 
Reply "No, because I'd have been on, I'd have been on G**** duty I think that afternoon.

Mmmmm. I THINK it was Lunchtime. Well surely not straight after lunch if indeed he was running 8 miles. So that's either in the morn or much later after lunch... My guess much later after lunch. 

So doesn't know the time and THINKS he was on Grace duty in the afternoon. THINKS he was...????

By the way, I'm sorry if I've helped take this thread off-topic. But news seems to have dried up this week, so I guess when something finally happens we'll have new threads anyway.   

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

That's what I thought.  Didn't the McCanns try to claim that it was the 2nd, but the instructor was scheduled to come in on the 1st?  So it was probably the 1st.

Could a massive falling out have occurred on the Tuesday?  I seem to remember a flurry of mobile phone activity from Kate that evening.

Yes they did a pre-emptive story to make out Maddie said it on the Thursday morning (after the Wednesday night), but it was in fact the Tuesday night that Mrs. Fenn heard Maddie crying for 1 3/4 hrs.

Its quite possible there was a massive falling out on the night of the 1st (the night of the full moon in Scorpio - very dodgy time for jealousy, vengeance and heightened emotions - but you`ll no doubt discard this info !).

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
Well endowed fitness instructor was the Tuesday, as was the night Maddie was crying for 1 3/4 hours.

That's what I thought.  Didn't the McCanns try to claim that it was the 2nd, but the instructor was scheduled to come in on the 1st?  So it was probably the 1st.

Could a massive falling out have occurred on the Tuesday?  I seem to remember a flurry of mobile phone activity from Kate that evening.

Death on tuesday after fallout and crying ,planning including  runs on wednesday and removal of body on the thursday.

Watching wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

HelenMeg wrote:[
Well that is strange. Oldfield distancing himself from knowing the Mc Canns very well. You only have to see that photo with his arms around Kate from behind to understand that he knew her very well - enough to put his arms around her like that.... it doesn't add up (as usual).  Oldfield does not come across as the most outgoing gregarious type - the photo where his arms are around Kate as he comforts her show that he was very comfortable with her.
Oldfield also said he didnt know Jez Wilkins very well as well.... I dont trust a word he says

Yep.  As you know I'm not one for swinging theories, but I would never put my arms around someone else's wife, not even my closest friends.

Wasn't he supposed to have gone 'jogging' with Kate at one point?  I must say, they did seem very close on that holiday.  Even (in what I consider to be the fictional account of events) MO offering to go and check the children in 5A for Kate seems like a strange act of gallantry (made up all the same).

They went jogging together Wednesday when Mrs O. was unwell?  So he leaves his sick wife/child  to jog with Mrs who  he claims not to know!

I have posted these extracts from MO's rog  on other threads but I believe it is of great importance and bears repeating:

Reply "Erm, I remember I went running with Kate at lunchtime, she's quite a good runner, and we went out on the road all the way up to the main junc... erm, the sort of main road where you access Praia da Luz from and then back".

4078 "What sort of distance would that be?"

Reply "Erm, yeah, I think it'd be about three or four miles, maybe each way".

4078 "And you run, do you often run?"

Reply "Erm, no, I don't like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it's a bit warmer and it's not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it's kind of Californian".

4078 "In your own mind, yeah".

Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she's quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it's sort of unusual and you're sort of exploring a bit".

4078 "And how did..."

Reply "I can't remember how that came about".

4078 "That is what I was going to ask".

Reply "Yeah, erm, it may have been that, because I think Kate might have run most days, because she was quite a keen runner, and it may just be that either I thought I'd go for a run and she was already changed, or I was changed and, or Gerry might have said that, erm, I'm speculating, it may just have been coincidence that we both got into running gear and then decided to run together".

4078 "But you went on this route and are saying you found it quite hard to keep up?"

Reply "Yeah, well, yeah, she's quite a good runner".

THEN LATER:

Reply "Yeah, most, yeah, I mean, it was pretty upsetting sort of seeing him like he was and also, you know, because, you know, we thought, obviously we were all having the same sort of thoughts, that, you know, you know, paedophiles - you can just imagine it can't you - a little run round like headless chickens then a group hug while they all squawked  'PAEDOPHILES at each other', before taking  off for another little madcap run round . And all the while JT  kept the secret of the abductor from everyone but RO while they stood yarning to each other on their doorsteps - Madeleine's gone, a little girl. Erm, Rachael stayed at the apartment and, erm, and I think Jane did as well, erm, around. I think we, at one stage, on one of the return visits, I did go into the apartment, just as far perhaps as the, erm, as the kitchen, and I could see them sat on the sofa, but they were in with the Police and there was nothing we could do or say, so we came back out, and that's the only time I went back into the apartment".

THEN LATER

And then, erm, after that we did more headless running around, checked on G****,  -  NB There was no need for him to check on G because his wife had gone back to the apartment to do that and she was standing outside  according to her jawing to Jane about the abductor Jane had seen. That is until Gerry turned up randomly and Rachael left  with him to do a quick run along the balconies and walkways during which time her phone registered a call out to someone.

erm, you know, at times we were sort of like crossing each other, there was Dave, and running on my own, and sort of the other way, and I then went out on the coast road a bit further down, erm, I don't know what we thought we could do, but it was just better than being close to them and being there, erm, and so we ran out on that, I think this road unfortunately is called, erm, which road is it, Cemetery Road I think it's called, This road has a small sign. I googled it and thought how hard it would be to notice that in the dark while you're running around like a headless chicken. Must have remembered from when he was exploring with KH on the run. I seem to remember noticing it because it seemed like a horrible, - like a horrible what? I think it’s this bit here".

4078 "It covers quite a lot of area".

Reply "You're distancing - basically out on, I think this is Cemetery Road or one of these roads and it just takes you out down the coast and there's lots of new build sort of resorts going up".

4078 "And all the areas that made a search, with hindsight or at the time, there was nothing that you can think of that might be relevant to?"

Reply "No, because as you went on you'd meet other groups, there was Nathan, one of the waterfront people, who managed the waterfront, who we'd met previous on a MARK WARNER holiday, so, you know, you'd sort of cross paths with people who were sort of searching and then, you know, it'd get deserted and there were dogs barking at you as you sort of wandered around, because some of the apartments were occupied and some were still being built, so there was a kind of a bit of, a sort of a lonely sort of isolated place, but, you know, it was all very sort of close, and there was nothing, you know, looking for sort of like funny parked cars or, erm, you know, anything really that seemed a bit odd".

-----------------------------

This is just a small  extract from this man's rogatory and frankly the whole lot could be highlighted in bright red. How the hell this person is of no interest to the investigation is just staggering.  This guy was bumping into people having covered a huge search area including this MW waterfront bod Nathan who had recognised him and/or Rachael at Reception earlier (previous MW holiday). Then hey presto they bump into each other at this "kind of a bit of a sort of a lonely sort of isolated place" with half constructed buildings and dogs barking. If you street google you will see how far this search of his went. Add to that he clearly has gleaned local knowledge - from the exploring run with KH?

Don't forget he had time to get up to JW's apartment at 1am  - a man who he barely remembered according to an earlier part of the rog -  hammered on the door,woke him up  only to tell him to go back to bed as he was not needed in the search. Oh and then he kept rushing back to check on his daughter when he knew his wife was there. Oh  P-LEASE.

If you or I had given an account  like that we would have been read our rights.

Woofer wrote:
Yes they did a pre-emptive story to make out Maddie said it on the Thursday morning (after the Wednesday night), but it was in fact the Tuesday night that Mrs. Fenn heard Maddie crying for 1 3/4 hrs.

Its quite possible there was a massive falling out on the night of the 1st (the night of the full moon in Scorpio - very dodgy time for jealousy, vengeance and heightened emotions - but you`ll no doubt discard this info !).

LOL, you know me too well Woofer ;-)

I'm quite fond of this 'marital breakdown' theory, because in my opinion it makes for an explosive atmosphere, just the kind of crisis in which Maddy could have sadly paid the ultimate price. And it is quite possible that a large portion of the Tapas group felt responsible.

Of course, the McCanns would have done everything they could to cover the breakdown up - because it would ring all kinds of alarm bells. Not just with the police, but also with the public. They had to look like the perfect middle-class (yeah, I know) couple to pull it off.

@Mirage - indeed, that rogatory interview is quite clearly bollux from start to finish.

Andrew77R wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:

From McCannfiles:
4078 "Okay. Right. So, I mean, having said that you had struggled to remember what you did each day, you have done pretty well really so far, you have remembered, for example, that Rachael was unwell all day on the Wednesday, so therefore you had gone for a run with Kate. I am guessing, would that have been when Grace was asleep or?"
 
Reply "I think that was lunchtime".
 
4078 "Yeah. Do you remember what you did after your run with Kate?"
 
Reply "No, because I'd have been on, I'd have been on G**** duty I think that afternoon.

Mmmmm. I THINK it was Lunchtime. Well surely not straight after lunch if indeed he was running 8 miles. So that's either in the morn or much later after lunch... My guess much later after lunch. 

So doesn't know the time and THINKS he was on Grace duty in the afternoon. THINKS he was...????

 Grace was put in creche mornings only, picked up at lunchtimes. His wife is ill all day.  If he took Grace to creche that morning he must remember he had to collect her lunchtime. Was he on Grace duty after this? A jog in morning then?  This is a man who didn't jog but loved sailing and gave that a miss to jog with Mrs -red light flashing on that one! If together they weren't jogging!