Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by petunia 13.05.14 21:21

Slopping could one of the couples be former residents of downing street?

by Mirage 13.05.14 21:25

Doug D wrote:Thanks Mirage.

I agree the move from the second OC apartment to the villa was on 2/7, but there seemed to be a suggestion of another move from a villa to another villa at some stage, but this may just be misinformation.

That's ok Doug. My understanding is that the Mcs were initially allocated another larger apartment by MW. Then, as more family arrived, they were offered a villa, gratis. But the owner then decided he wanted them out and they moved on 2nd July to the final villa which they had to pay for themselves. This is the villa where the Scenic boot was left open day after day, and where Jon Corner filmed, and from where they left abruptly in Sept when declared arguidos

It is mind-boggling re-visiting these blogs. On one day he writes of his lost daughter the following:
The day starts with a jog, with refreshing breezes. Sandwiched in the middle of the day's doings, this:

"The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse."

He finishes the day's blog with:
"I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!"

But this one on 11th Aug '07 takes the bloody biscuit :

"UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO ADD PATIENCE TO OUR OTHER CHARACTERISTICS "

Hello! Oscar Pistorius, eat your heart out!

I wonder what Gerry thinks their other characteristics are? A far from comprehensive list follows, just one he may have doodled on the other half of the ripped out cover of the sticker book while waiting for the laggardly police to turn up so that he could show off his characteristics. Well apart from his unfortunate lapse of emulating a bull, a praying Arab and then finishing up with a good roll round the floor. I love that re-enactment of GNR police in their macho gear looking askance through a doorway at this mental behaviour. I expect they were told that this was normal for British holidaying families - along with leaving tiny tots in unlocked apartments whilst going out on the razz.
Anyway, here's the list:

Suave
Persuasive
Urbane
Charming
Fragrant
Elegant
Eloquent
Understanding
Magnetic
Empathetic
Helpful
Obliging
Co-operative
Self-effacing
Attractive
Educated
Articulate
Self-sacrificing
Grateful
Gracious
Humble
Thankful
Wise
Child-centred (well, where every other missing child on the planet is concerned)

Gerry's Memo to self: After morning jog, must work on patience. It's the only weakness in Kate and I's characters.

Gawd's truth. Let me lie down.

by Newintown 13.05.14 21:30

Mirage wrote:
Doug D wrote:Thanks Mirage.

I agree the move from the second OC apartment to the villa was on 2/7, but there seemed to be a suggestion of another move from a villa to another villa at some stage, but this may just be misinformation.

That's ok Doug. My understanding is that the Mcs were initially allocated another larger apartment by MW. Then, as more family arrived, they were offered a villa, gratis. But the owner then decided he wanted them out and they moved on 2nd July to the final villa which they had to pay for themselves. This is the villa where the Scenic boot was left open day after day, and where Jon Corner filmed, and from where they left abruptly in Sept when declared arguidos

It is mind-boggling re-visiting these blogs. On one day he writes of his lost daughter the following:
The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse.
He finishes the day's blog with:
I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!

But this one on 11th Aug '07 takes the bloody biscuit :

"UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO ADD PATIENCE TO OUR OTHER CHARACTERISTICS "

Hello! Oscar Pistorius, eat your heart out!

I wonder what Gerry thinks their other characteristics are?

Suave
Persuasive
Urbane
Charming
Fragrant
Elegant
Eloquent
Understanding
Empathetic
Helpful
Obliging
Co-operative
Self-effacing
Attractive
Educated
Articulate
Self-sacrificing
Grateful
Gracious
Humble
Thankful
Wise
Child-centred (well, where every other missing child on the planet but his own is concerned)

Gerry's Memo to self: After the morning jog, must work on patience. It's the only weakness in Kate and I's characters.

Gawd's truth. Let me lie down.

They show the characteristics of two parents who have never had to go through the "abduction" of a child; they therefore have to make up all the emotions, feelings etc as they go along and get it very wrong.

by canada12 13.05.14 21:38

Regarding how well the Tapas 9 knew one another prior to this holiday... I know what they say in their assorted interviews... but we've practically dismissed everything else they've all said as being a fabrication... why should we believe what they say about how well (or not well) they all knew one another before April / May 2007? For all we know they got together regularly once a month and were all fast friends. I don't believe a word any of them say anymore about anything. And I think everything - EVERYTHING - they've all said to this point should be assumed to be false, pending independent verification.

by Garrincha 13.05.14 21:45

Deleted

by Garrincha 13.05.14 21:49

By whom & why??

ETA also, I was just about to add: if I'm wrong, my humble apologies

by Guest 13.05.14 21:58

Garrincha wrote:By whom & why??

ETA also, I was just about to add: if I'm wrong, my humble apologies

By moi, breaking forum rules making personal comments about members.

by petunia 13.05.14 22:02

CF love ya new avatar. big grin

by TheTruthWillOut 13.05.14 22:04

Completely off-topic but I love your new Avatar Candyfloss. big grin

I imagine you spend half your time here like this:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

sarcastic

by Guest 13.05.14 22:06

Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?

He didn't.

Simples.

by Guest 13.05.14 22:09

TheTruthWillOut wrote:Completely off-topic but I love your new Avatar Candyfloss.

I imagine you spend half your time here like this:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yep and this,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 13.05.14 22:11

Candyfloss empathy

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:23

Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.

The waiter Batista's statement seems to give the most information about the comings and goings of the Tapas 9:

--------- JOAQUIM JOSE MOREIRA BATISTA (residing at Rua Ilha Terceira, no. 15, Lagos, Telephone No 91 277 ####) - table employee [waiter].
- Of the group of 8/9 British citizens who dined at the restaurant last night, as usual, of which the parents of missing were part (he didn't know them) he noticed that two individuals left the table, of the male gender.
- The first to leave was about 40/45 years old (tall, skinny, white complexion, with large [a full head of] hair of color gray) and the period of his absence was about 15 minutes, being that they had to [re-]heat his food, which had cooled;
- The second to leave (about 40/45 years of age, having the physical characteristics of the first, but having less bulky hair) did so for about 30 minutes, and that shortly after he returned, all left the table, except for an elderly person, who told him that a child had disappeared, the daughter of a member of the group, due to which he thought that the second person to leave could have been the father of the child;

The first to leave in my opinion is clearly ROB - he is certainly tall, and had a fuller head of hair than MO. He was gone about 15 minutes, and they had to reheat his food.
The second to leave was gone for 30 minutes. Batista suggests that it could have been Gerry.

--------- RICARDO ALEXANDRE DA LUZ OLIVEIRA (as he was on his day off, he was contacted by telephone No 91 397####) - table employee.
- Of the group of 8/9 British citizens who dined at that restaurant yesterday, like they usually did, which was partly made up of the parents of the missing (he did not know them) he noticed that absent from the table, for about 15 minutes, [was] a man (tall, little more than thirty years of age, normal physical stature, white complexion and hair color light brown);

Corroboration of ROB being gone for 15 minutes.

------- STARIKOVA VITORINO (Russian citizen, with the telephone No "96635 ####) - kitchen assistant:
- Said that, yesterday, one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes. After having returned, a woman whom she believed to be his wife, also left the table, there having passed a few moments, all the guests left the table in question, except one elderly lady, who told her [Svetlana's] colleagues that that child had disappeared.

Vitorino also only suggests that it might have been Gerry who was gone for 30 minutes. She does add some more important information - that Kate left as soon as this person returned, and that everyone else left only a few moments later.

Questions this raises for me:

- Did all the bar staff fail to notice Gerry being missing from 9:04-9:15?
- Did Jane Tanner leave the table at all? None of the staff saw her leave.
- Was the person missing for 30 minutes Gerry or was it Oldfield?
- How did the bar staff miss a hysterical woman returning to the Tapas shouting "They've taken her!"?
- What approximate time was the alert raised?

Whichever way you read these statements, they do not match the statements of the Tapas 9 in any way.

by Watching 13.05.14 22:28

Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.

Well there is that! LOL!

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:35

Further point - ROB and MO claim to have left the Tapas together. However, the bar staff clearly remember ROB leaving by himself. If they had left together, surely this would be reflected in at least one statement.

I'll try some theorizing.

If the time of the alert was 10pm as claimed then working backwards, this must be the approximate timeline of events:

9:15 - 9:30 - ROB gone from table, his food goes cold and has to be reheated when he returns

9:30 - 10:00 - GM or MO is gone from the table for a suspiciously long period of time.

10:00 - KM goes to 5a, followed after a few moments by everyone else except DW.

ETA - although the 30 minute disappearance of GM or MO didn't necessarily start when ROBs 15 minute disappearance ended, the statements aren't particularly clear about this.

by stillsloppingout 13.05.14 22:43

RIPM wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
Ask yourself .McCanns from leicestershire , the rest from all four corners of the UK . when did anybody ever go on holiday with people who you did not know by either family ties or work , they IMO were brought together by a common interest .
and IMO i have had it stated to me that they were swingers .i know of two famous couples ,one you would not believe that i know for sure .the McCanns they know just cant publish
More misinformation to fit a swinging theory.

The Macs live on the outskirts of Leicester as do the Payne's, about 10 miles apart.

Obrien and Oldfield are linked via worked related appointments and Leicester Hospital links. Webster is related to the Paynes.

You could always do some basic research.

This was the position in 2007 houses and hospitals have changed in certain cases since.

Thanks for the links re the connections OK they knew each other.

I have been paid by a red top to go under cover re Swingers on few occasions , sometimes i go in as a punter , one paper [ now defunct ] was obsessed by them .

i have this year been in houses and brothels covering this type of activity , [ all i know for sure re this case is without doubt based on a very reliable source told me that they are . [ all swingers clubs, brothels have CCTV btw ] and IMO sex is behind this case .

PS i was the person in a famous NW brothel that brought you THAT story . its world cup year get my drift !!

[ The latest two couples i have been following ,one couple is obvious because he is still an attractive man his wife minging !!! the other two , so young so attractive, but whatever rocks there boat . no more clues im skint and cant afford a lawyer .

But i assure you it is NOT mis information .

by HelenMeg 13.05.14 22:45

Watching wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
Ask yourself .McCanns from leicestershire , the rest from all four corners of the UK . when did anybody ever go on holiday with people who you did not know by either family ties or work , they IMO were brought together by a common interest .
and IMO i have had it stated to me that they were swingers .i know of two famous couples ,one you would not believe that i know for sure .the McCanns they know just cant publish

Well oldfield's didn't know Mr & Mrs and this sharing an apartment was for guests at wedding, an overnight or something, not a holiday.

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'Oldfield Rogatory interview with Leicestershire Police:

4078 - "In relation to Gerry and Kate then, just to clarify what you have said. You met them at David and Fiona's wedding?"

Reply "Yeah".

4078 - "In two thousand and three in Italy. And you stayed, you shared an apartment with them then. Have you met them socially between then and now very often?"

Reply - I don't think we met them at all after the wedding, before, erm, before we left to go down to London. But I know Russ and Jane and Dave and Fiona would have been to sort of the birthday parties, erm, but more because they were Leicester based really. And we weren't, hadn't become sort of that close from that small visit in Italy".

4078 - "So the FIRST time you had SEEN them or HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM really again was this holiday last May?"

Reply - "Yeah, I mean, we knew ABOUT them because Fiona, Dave and Fiona were sort of close friends with them and I think Fiona and Kate trained at some point (inaudible) training or knew each other in that way, so we'd HEAR about them, but it was, erm, Gerry and Kate and then Dave and Fi at this end and then Russ and Jane sort of sort of thing, it was like that".

So the Oldfield’s met the McCann couple briefly at a wedding in Italy, in 2003. They did not meet with them again until the holiday in Portugal in 2007. They really did not know this couple at all.

They had seen Madeleine as a baby of 4/5 months old in 2003, and had never seen or met Sean and Amelie McCann the twin children of Kate and Gerry McCann.'

Well that is strange. Oldfield distancing himself from knowing the Mc Canns very well. You only have to see that photo with his arms around Kate from behind to understand that he knew her very well - enough to put his arms around her like that.... it doesn't add up (as usual). Oldfield does not come across as the most outgoing gregarious type - the photo where his arms are around Kate as he comforts her show that he was very comfortable with her.
Oldfield also said he didnt know Jez Wilkins very well as well.... I dont trust a word he says

by Guest 13.05.14 22:50

HelenMeg: I think MO and Kate got to know each other very well on that "run" together on 2nd May.

by HelenMeg 13.05.14 22:51

stillsloppingout wrote:
RIPM wrote:
stillsloppingout wrote:
Ask yourself .McCanns from leicestershire , the rest from all four corners of the UK . when did anybody ever go on holiday with people who you did not know by either family ties or work , they IMO were brought together by a common interest .
and IMO i have had it stated to me that they were swingers .i know of two famous couples ,one you would not believe that i know for sure .the McCanns they know just cant publish
More misinformation to fit a swinging theory.

The Macs live on the outskirts of Leicester as do the Payne's, about 10 miles apart.

Obrien and Oldfield are linked via worked related appointments and Leicester Hospital links. Webster is related to the Paynes.

You could always do some basic research.

This was the position in 2007 houses and hospitals have changed in certain cases since.
Thanks for the links re the connections OK they knew each other.

I have been paid by a red top to go under cover re Swingers on few occasions , sometimes i go in as a punter , one paper [ now defunct ] was obsessed by them .

i have this year been in houses and brothels covering this type of activity , [ all i know for sure re this case is without doubt based on a very reliable source told me that they are . [ all swingers clubs, brothels have CCTV btw ] and IMO sex is behind this case .

PS i was the person in a famous NW brothel that brought you THAT story . its world cup year get my drift !!

[ The latest two couples i have been following ,one couple is obvious because he is still an attractive man his wife minging !!! the other two , so young so attractive, but whatever rocks there boat . no more clues im skint and cant afford a lawyer .

But i assure you it is NOT mis information .

I have no doubts that swinging / sex is behind the cover up - keeping some VIPs out the papers is at the heart of this. I would've thought you got paid fairly well for what you do though.

If GM /KM /DP /FP /RM /MO/BO /JW are all swingers - I wonder if they have had to halt their hobby post May 2007. I guess if they are still at it it must be very discrete now - surely they cant afford to get caught out now.

by HelenMeg 13.05.14 22:52

Ladyinred wrote:HelenMeg: I think MO and Kate got to know each other very well on that "run" together on 2nd May.

Yes!

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 22:52

HelenMeg wrote:[
Well that is strange. Oldfield distancing himself from knowing the Mc Canns very well. You only have to see that photo with his arms around Kate from behind to understand that he knew her very well - enough to put his arms around her like that.... it doesn't add up (as usual). Oldfield does not come across as the most outgoing gregarious type - the photo where his arms are around Kate as he comforts her show that he was very comfortable with her.
Oldfield also said he didnt know Jez Wilkins very well as well.... I dont trust a word he says

Yep. As you know I'm not one for swinging theories, but I would never put my arms around someone else's wife, not even my closest friends.

Wasn't he supposed to have gone 'jogging' with Kate at one point? I must say, they did seem very close on that holiday. Even (in what I consider to be the fictional account of events) MO offering to go and check the children in 5A for Kate seems like a strange act of gallantry (made up all the same).

by Guest 13.05.14 22:58

stillsloppingout wrote:

PS i was the person in a famous NW brothel that brought you THAT story . its world cup year get my drift !!

[ The latest two couples i have been following ,one couple is obvious because he is still an attractive man his wife minging !!! the other two , so young so attractive, but whatever rocks there boat . no more clues im skint and cant afford a lawyer .

But i assure you it is NOT mis information .

1) Rooooooooonnnnnneeeeeyyyyyyyy!!!!!!???????

2) Daytime tv couple????

3) No idea.

by Watching 13.05.14 23:02

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:[
Well that is strange. Oldfield distancing himself from knowing the Mc Canns very well. You only have to see that photo with his arms around Kate from behind to understand that he knew her very well - enough to put his arms around her like that.... it doesn't add up (as usual). Oldfield does not come across as the most outgoing gregarious type - the photo where his arms are around Kate as he comforts her show that he was very comfortable with her.
Oldfield also said he didnt know Jez Wilkins very well as well.... I dont trust a word he says

Yep. As you know I'm not one for swinging theories, but I would never put my arms around someone else's wife, not even my closest friends.

Wasn't he supposed to have gone 'jogging' with Kate at one point? I must say, they did seem very close on that holiday. Even (in what I consider to be the fictional account of events) MO offering to go and check the children in 5A for Kate seems like a strange act of gallantry (made up all the same).

They went jogging together Wednesday when Mrs O. was unwell? So he leaves his sick wife/child to jog with Mrs who he claims not to know!

by Guest 13.05.14 23:07

I don't believe any running activity took place. Remember, they were all so into each other.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 23:08

Bear with me a moment, because I'd like to consider what a relationship between MO and Kate suggests in the event that there *wasn't* any swinging going on. Fair enough if others want to assume swinging was going on, and I'm not ruling it out. But I'd like to look at what this says if there wasn't any swinging.

I can clearly see the intimacy between MO and Kate. If something was going on between them, and there wasn't any swinging, then Gerry and Kate must surely have fallen out. Divorce would probably have been raised. Kate signed the creche records one time only under her maiden name (with a big flourish on the 'Y'). Might she have done this because divorce was in the air?

This would have created an explosive atmosphere.

Could this be the reason for "We've let her down"? (See, I did pay attention to that punctuation thread!)

The 'last photo' could have been edited (i.e. date changed) to show a happy family occasion on the 3rd, and to back up the statements that they had given.

This could explain why the McCanns were not at the Paraiso - best to leave them to their own devices. (And yes, the CCTV was convenient, but maybe not deliberately so).

This is just speculation - I'm just thinking out loud, I'm not trying to push this as 'the' theory.

by Hicks 13.05.14 23:09

Ladyinred wrote:I don't believe any running activity took place. Remember, they were all so into each other.

Literally! laughat

by mariola 13.05.14 23:09

Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.

I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

by Guest 13.05.14 23:12

WLBTS: Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage. (After her long "run" with MO).

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 23:13

Ladyinred wrote:Also on the night of Wednesday, 2nd May Mr&Mrs slept apart for the first time in their marriage.

And wasn't Gerry talking to that 'well-endowed' fitness instructor?

by Guest 13.05.14 23:15

mariola wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Watching wrote:why would oldfield the one who knew Mr & Mrs & family least, be one to go in 5A and check on their children?
He didn't.

Simples.
I thought Oldfield checked but didn,t enter the room,saw the twins but not Maddie.

Oldfield claims that is what he did.

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