Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by **Nina** 13.05.14 10:48

Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!

me too Andrew77R I give in flag

by Guest 13.05.14 10:50

Nina wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!
me too Andrew77R I give in

if a is 1....

by stillsloppingout 13.05.14 10:51

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
margaret wrote:
I don't think they'll find Madeleine, l think the huelva trip put paid to that. But maybe there is stuff hidden. Someone said on here before about the diversionary tactics the Mccanns use and it's true. All this time they have been at pains to suggest Maddie isn't in PDL anymore and this dig has them rattled so...?

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.

Not as risky as you think .

Misdirection as long as he was brazen enough , he could hide his intentions in plain sight . i mean even if he had a press scrum inches from his car , nobody is going to say , " what have you got in those boxes Gerry ? Maddie " .

The car was chock full of leaflets , THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWED by the press , there was a detour and we know that from the mileage ,the bag was picked up inc Maddie from its current temporary hiding place [ under a stone, ] or the disused farmhouse that was mentioned in posts ages ago ] and re interred in marshland or sone other difficult terrain .

It must be this trip to heluva [ spelling ] because wasn't it a public holiday , and the leaflets were all in Portuguese.

Misdirection again Whoop's a public holiday , aren't i stupid , he knowing full well the roads would be empty and nobody would be around .

IF AND THE BIG IF they are worried about the pending searches [ they are NOT worried about the digs because IMO SY are on side , and would not dig anywhere that could incriminate , ] it is because in there initial haste they disposed locally of items relating to Maddie , and themselves [ and later may have forgot exactly where ] which if discovered they would have a lot of questions to answer .

Im no officer but . here is one directly to Lord Charles Q " why have you buried / disposed of items belonging to Maddie ,/ yourselves in a field etc ....... There is NO reasonable answer , to paraphrase Gerry they wood be fooked . Im sure even SY could not spin that one away [ unless of course the abducting cleaner was just doing his job ]

Find/ stumble upon even her tooth brush and they are doomed .

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 10:52

PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?

Hmm, this appears to be the phone number of a Ronald Pickleton (Mrs) of Swaffham, Norfolk. He maintains that he had nothing to do with it, but I agree with Wendy Murphy, I'm not buying it.

by ChippyM 13.05.14 10:52

plebgate wrote:
roy rovers wrote:Any T9 pact of silence must be secured in the knowledge that unless one of them talks there will NEVER be a prosecution because they know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found.
CF just posted this link re. Claudia - no body found but an arrest has been made.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Interesting. So that's 7 months after they did a second forensic investigation and 4 years after she went missing. So for those 7 months police kept quiet whilst analysing results and tracking down a suspect.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 10:55

ChippyM wrote:
Interesting. So that's 7 months after they did a second forensic investigation and 4 years after she went missing. So for those 7 months police kept quiet whilst analysing results and tracking down a suspect.

You mean that the police didn't announce their suspect to the media up front???? For shame!!!

by **PeterMac** 13.05.14 10:59

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
Interesting. So that's 7 months after they did a second forensic investigation and 4 years after she went missing. So for those 7 months police kept quiet whilst analysing results and tracking down a suspect.
You mean that the police didn't announce their suspect to the media up front???? For shame!!!

Indeed. Dreadful malpractice.
They did, in their defence, alert the suspect and give him / her 24 hours start.
Always give a chap a sporting chance, don't you know !

by plebgate 13.05.14 11:02

Someone did post recently and ask if it's possible that a new forensic search had been done on the QT in Apt. 5a?

by ChippyM 13.05.14 11:06

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
Interesting. So that's 7 months after they did a second forensic investigation and 4 years after she went missing. So for those 7 months police kept quiet whilst analysing results and tracking down a suspect.

You mean that the police didn't announce their suspect to the media up front???? For shame!!!

Not exactly what I meant no big grin

If just about every recent 'leak' about arrests has come from the McSpin team and not SY, maybe just maybe, that means SY could just be getting on with things, which evidently can take months.

by Guest 13.05.14 11:09

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?

Hmm, this appears to be the phone number of a Ronald Pickleton (Mrs) of Swaffham, Norfolk. He maintains that he had nothing to do with it, but I agree with Wendy Murphy, I'm not buying it.

Never heard of this chap. Just did a quick search on here, files, google etc and nothing.

Any links for info WLBTS....

by Guest 13.05.14 11:11

plebgate wrote:Someone did post recently and ask if it's possible that a new forensic search had been done on the QT in Apt. 5a?

Remember that SY are investigating the abduction as if it happened in the UK. So they did a forensic sweep of a chalet at Butlins instead.

Nothing incriminating found.

by AndyB 13.05.14 11:12

dantezebu wrote:
Nina wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!
me too Andrew77R I give in
if a is 1....

Got it! Its Acbaahat.

by notlongnow 13.05.14 11:13

PeterMac wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.
Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

This is why i feel the t7 must be very scared if they only have some info.
Did wonder if sy had made the digs up to force someone from the t7 to talk.

by plebgate 13.05.14 11:22

AndyB wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Nina wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!
me too Andrew77R I give in
if a is 1....
Got it! Its Acbaahat.

I got it too, (I think).

by plebgate 13.05.14 11:24

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
plebgate wrote:Someone did post recently and ask if it's possible that a new forensic search had been done on the QT in Apt. 5a?

Remember that SY are investigating the abduction as if it happened in the UK. So they did a forensic sweep of a chalet at Butlins instead.

Nothing incriminating found.

I believe you are a very naughty person. titter

by **Nina** 13.05.14 11:27

plebgate wrote:
AndyB wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Nina wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!
me too Andrew77R I give in
if a is 1....
Got it! Its Acbaahat.
I got it too, (I think).

Noooooo, it's Acbaahab, Acbaahat is free to go Mrs

by Guest 13.05.14 11:28

AndyB wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Nina wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Any cryptic clues instead then..

132118120

Cryptic enough ?
Slightly too cryptic.

A simpler one wouldn't go a miss..

Is there a genuine clue amongst those numbers... Or is it just to keep me busy for a very long time.... ha!!!
me too Andrew77R I give in
if a is 1....
Got it! Its Acbaahat.

Of course it is. Simple and makes sense.

13 = M.

by plebgate 13.05.14 11:28

Oh well I aint got it then Nina, the B instead of T is wot scuppered it for me big grin

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 11:42

plebgate wrote:Oh well I aint got it then Nina, the B instead of T is wot scuppered it for me

13-21-18-1-20

by Guest 13.05.14 11:48

@PeterMac.

Right. That one has been solved now.

Next one please.........

Like this game.

by worriedmum 13.05.14 11:50

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
plebgate wrote:Someone did post recently and ask if it's possible that a new forensic search had been done on the QT in Apt. 5a?

Remember that SY are investigating the abduction as if it happened in the UK. So they did a forensic sweep of a chalet at Butlins instead.

Nothing incriminating found.

by Cristobell 13.05.14 12:04

stillsloppingout wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
margaret wrote:
I don't think they'll find Madeleine, l think the huelva trip put paid to that. But maybe there is stuff hidden. Someone said on here before about the diversionary tactics the Mccanns use and it's true. All this time they have been at pains to suggest Maddie isn't in PDL anymore and this dig has them rattled so...?

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.
Not as risky as you think .

Misdirection as long as he was brazen enough , he could hide his intentions in plain sight . i mean even if he had a press scrum inches from his car , nobody is going to say , " what have you got in those boxes Gerry ? Maddie " .

The car was chock full of leaflets , THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWED by the press , there was a detour and we know that from the mileage ,the bag was picked up inc Maddie from its current temporary hiding place [ under a stone, ] or the disused farmhouse that was mentioned in posts ages ago ] and re interred in marshland or sone other difficult terrain .

It must be this trip to heluva [ spelling ] because wasn't it a public holiday , and the leaflets were all in Portuguese.

Misdirection again Whoop's a public holiday , aren't i stupid , he knowing full well the roads would be empty and nobody would be around .

IF AND THE BIG IF they are worried about the pending searches [ they are NOT worried about the digs because IMO SY are on side , and would not dig anywhere that could incriminate , ] it is because in there initial haste they disposed locally of items relating to Maddie , and themselves [ and later may have forgot exactly where ] which if discovered they would have a lot of questions to answer .

Im no officer but . here is one directly to Lord Charles Q " why have you buried / disposed of items belonging to Maddie ,/ yourselves in a field etc ....... There is NO reasonable answer , to paraphrase Gerry they wood be fooked . Im sure even SY could not spin that one away [ unless of course the abducting cleaner was just doing his job ]

Find/ stumble upon even her tooth brush and they are doomed .

The McCanns were under intense scrutiny at the time of Huelva trip. The Mark Harrison searches had begun in PDL and the police were looking for a body. The search of their rented villa was scheduled to take place at 10.00a.m and the McCanns postponed their trip to Huelva on the pretext that Gerry had a tummy bug. They waited in all day, the search team not turning up until after 5.00pm when the family were asked to vacate the property while the search went ahead. The hire car was impounded several days later, after their trip to Huelva.

As we know the scent of death was detected on various items belonging to the McCanns, though not the actual rented villa - so presumably a body was not stored there. If the McCanns were planning on moving the body at that time, it would have been incredibly risky as the investigation had changed direction and the police were actively looking for a body and using cadaver and blood dogs. Therefore, they knew BEFORE they went to Huelva that the car would probably be checked. This might account for all the daft statements about meat dripping, smelly trainers and dirty nappies.

I think by the time of the trip to Huelva, the damage had already been done (a body had already been in the car) and could not be undone, that is the smell was already there and any movement of the body was around the time the witness saw the boot being left open day and night.

Kate's account of that time is on pages 200 and 201 of KH1.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 12:08

Cristobell wrote:
I think by the time of the trip to Huelva, the damage had already been done (a body had already been in a car) and could not be undone, that is the smell was already there and any movement of the body was around the time the witness saw the boot being left open day and night.

It's a shame that we don't know exactly when the witness saw the boot being left open. That would give a very clear indication of the approximate date of burial.

I agree that given that the McCanns already knew about the cadaver dog searches by the time of the Huelva trip, moving the body in the hire car would have been incredibly stupid. At the very least, the body must have been transported before they knew about the cadaver dogs.

by FH 13.05.14 12:18

Andrew77R wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Huelva was probably about getting rid of other evidence. The kind of evidence that would not be as obviously incriminating as a dead child giving off an unmistakable smell.
Say the body was put in the car for a very short time. Say 10 mins for a quick drive in PDL somewhere for disposal.

Would that leave the sort of smell that they would have to leave all the car doors / boot open for a long period of time. IIRC overnight too....

In my experience there is no way to tell how long the body (or other items) were in the car from the duration of the smell. It would really depend upon the state of the decomposing material.

In the 70's I had 2 dogs roll on a dead seal on the beach . I washed them as thoroughly as I could in the sea to clean off the coating of pink slime they had acquired, put them in the back of my car for at most ~15 minutes to go home and it took several weeks for the smell to leave, driving everywhere with the windows open and that was in the 70's when the seats were leather and boots were lined with vinyl, not carpet, so quite easy to clean with bleach etc. The dogs were also shampoo'ed multiple times and they still stank for days. The smell is very persistent and the fluid must have leaked into gaps . The seal was pretty ripe, which was probably the attraction.

A frozen cadaver, or items associated with it would obviously be completely different. Might not be much smell. On the other hand, if something was in the boot in the heat longer than anticipated and started thawing.... It doesn't really bear thinking about.

Which day did they cancel their plans?

Personally I would opt for a short journey, less time for anything to go wrong, but I'm not a risk taker.

by jeanmonroe 13.05.14 13:33

"Remember, that SY are investigating 'the abduction' as if it happened in the UK."
-------------------------------------------

What 'abduction' would that be then?

No matter how hard i try, i just cannot find any irrefutable 'evidence' that an 'abduction' ever took place.

OG 'update' April 2014.

The Metropolitan Police Service continues to offer a reward of up to £20,000 for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of the person(s) responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007.
-----------------------------------------------------------

What cast iron 'evidence' do the MET (OG) have to state, categorically, and PUBLICLY, that Madeleine McCann WAS 'abducted' from PDL?

'supposition'? ( a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis.)

Because they (OG) were 'TOLD' that Madeleine McCann was 'abducted'?

WHO 'told' them that?

And why would 38 'experienced, hardnosed, career, used to being lied to, elite' cops 'unswervingly believe' ONLY 'abduction', to the total, so it appears, 'exclusion' of ALL OTHER 'theories' that could explain why Madeleine McCann is 'not here' as espoused by the 'missing' child's very own parent, GM?

Would a single officer, at Operation Grange, swear on OATH, in the High Court, of England, that Madeleine McCann 'WAS 'abducted'?

As Isabel Martorell, McCann lawyer in McCanns vs Bennett, also stated, although she had to face the indignity of having to retract written 'evidence', publicly in the High Court, citing that she did not have ANY actual 'evidence' that 'Madeleine McCann WAS 'abducted' and she was only stating that was what, her clients, the McCanns, had TOLD her.

by roy rovers 13.05.14 13:57

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
roy rovers wrote:Any T9 pact of silence must be secured in the knowledge that unless one of them talks there will NEVER be a prosecution because they know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found.

I don't see how that logically follows. Just because there is a pact of silence doesn't mean that the body is hidden where it will never be found.

It is one of the remarkable features of this case that none of the T9 have broken rank (as far as we know). What I'm saying is that just as there must be some secret that binds them together in the first place there must also be some knowledge that prevents any one of them breaking rank. I'm suggesting that they might know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found so that as long as none of them speaks out there isn't going to be any external evidence in the form of a body. I'm making this point in the context of the helicopter search and proposed digs. I don't think they're going to find anything until someone in the T9 tells them exactly where to look. All IMO of course.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 13:59

roy rovers wrote:
It is one of the remarkable features of this case that none of the T9 have broken rank (as far as we know). What I'm saying is that just as there must be some secret that binds them together in the first place there must also be some knowledge that prevents any one of them breaking rank. I'm suggesting that they might know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found so that as long as none of them speaks out there isn't going to be any external evidence in the form of a body. I'm making this point in the context of the helicopter search and proposed digs. I don't think they're going to find anything until someone in the T9 tells them exactly where to look. All IMO of course.

I don't see any reason for any of that group except one to even know where the body is buried, let alone know that it can never be found. See my earlier posts on this subject :)

by roy rovers 13.05.14 14:04

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
roy rovers wrote:
It is one of the remarkable features of this case that none of the T9 have broken rank (as far as we know). What I'm saying is that just as there must be some secret that binds them together in the first place there must also be some knowledge that prevents any one of them breaking rank. I'm suggesting that they might know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found so that as long as none of them speaks out there isn't going to be any external evidence in the form of a body. I'm making this point in the context of the helicopter search and proposed digs. I don't think they're going to find anything until someone in the T9 tells them exactly where to look. All IMO of course.

I don't see any reason for any of that group except one to even know where the body is buried, let alone know that it can never be found. See my earlier posts on this subject :)

Maybe that one assured the rest. Same difference.

by Cristobell 13.05.14 14:37

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
roy rovers wrote:
It is one of the remarkable features of this case that none of the T9 have broken rank (as far as we know). What I'm saying is that just as there must be some secret that binds them together in the first place there must also be some knowledge that prevents any one of them breaking rank. I'm suggesting that they might know for a FACT that the body is hidden where it will NEVER be found so that as long as none of them speaks out there isn't going to be any external evidence in the form of a body. I'm making this point in the context of the helicopter search and proposed digs. I don't think they're going to find anything until someone in the T9 tells them exactly where to look. All IMO of course.

I don't see any reason for any of that group except one to even know where the body is buried, let alone know that it can never be found. See my earlier posts on this subject :)

The Tapas friends stayed on in PDL for 1 to 2 weeks after Maddie disappeared. I think David and Fiona were the last to leave. Therefore they had left Portugal before the McCanns hired the car, so it is doubtful any of them would know where the secondary burial site is.

One witness, Michael Wright, husband of Kate's cousin, and media monitor extraordinaire was insured to drive the scenic and he volunteered excuses for why there was a smell in the hire car. Gerry's sister Trisha and brother in law Sandy, stayed in Portugal for 3 months, so may also have been driving the scenic.

by lj 13.05.14 14:57

aiyoyo wrote:So........people still believe it is a white wash eh....despite the imminent dig ?

I am sorry ayoyo, but yes I think we are looking at a show. It might very well be that Andy has no real control over what is happening himself, but I don't believe for a second "the dig" is a serious lead.

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