Hahaha can't help...

by MarleneP 11.05.14 18:32

And then they're going to open holes, searching for, eventually, the child's body at the 25 de Abril street? Was it for this that we had the 25 de Abril [see [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]]?

by Woofer 11.05.14 18:44

OO ER .... They seem to think the same as TB, that it`s all for show.
Thanks for the translation Graceful1

by **Tony Bennett** 11.05.14 18:48

QUOTE

"Poor Maddie. A British police chief who just wants to be on TV uses Maddie's parents' claims to show off - and comes to Portugal to meddle in the Portuguese investigation. To show off, on TV, they 'investigate' idiotic leads, for the English to see - i.e. just for the sake of appearances - and they even do 'aerial searches' (!!!) seven years after the child disappeared. An embarrassment to him and to the Portuguese state".

in Correio da Manhã, May 11, 2014

Correio da Manha has spoken for me.

Operation Grange is an indelible stain on the fabric of our country.

by lj 11.05.14 19:12

Bishop Brennan wrote:So what next? This seems to be the start of the end game. SY want out, and quickly. I suspect they have been told to shut it down. What were their options?

1. "Search for Maddie" for the rest of time, investigating every sex offender that has ever been to Portugal.
2. Declare "Maddie is dead" - but that the killer will never be found (or is dead).

Option 3 (arrest the McCanns) was never an option for SY, and never will be.

And so, over the last 3 days the world has been told that Maddie is dead - the 7-year search is over. So effective was the story (the helicopter ride was a terrific detail to add), that there is actually no need to do any digging. The message has been received by EVERYONE in the UK and Portugal. No-one is now looking for a live Maddie.

As to who was the killer / abductor? It doesn't really matter. SY can (and do) say that they have hundreds of leads, but can't follow them up. They can (and do) hint that it was done by a dead paedo. Dead or unfindable is fine - let the press speculate if they wish. They will soon grow tired and the story will fade away. They might even let Amaral win his libel case to give him his life (and money) back again. And now everyone is happy. McCann's officially cleared; Amaral goes back to his life; PJ close the case for ever; SY shut down grange. Politicians express thanks to PJ and SY, sorrow for the McCanns. McCanns hold a memorial and it's all over.

It's not the truth, it's not justice, but it's a neat and tidy end for all the major political and police players who by now have realised that Grange was a big mistake and colossal waste of money.

I do believe in this scenario too.

Who was it again looking for possible white wash scenarios: this one has been offered and discussed many times before.

by TheTruthWillOut 11.05.14 19:17

I think the a phrase used here a few years ago is apt right now. 'Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.....

by frost 11.05.14 19:50

My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .

by Guest 11.05.14 20:03

Bishop Brennan wrote:Why a military helicopter? Civilian ones are much bigger, easier to hire and cheaper. Do we know if this one had any specialist kit on board? Military choppers are not designed to find graves or bodies. So what kit would they have that could be useful? I'm struggling to see it. Special cameras have been suggested and I guess that's it. Expensive hi def pics....? Their own super sharp version of google earth to play with back home?

I think it was likely the portuguese choose for the use of a military heli, because they would be the ones, who would own the right to results of the flights. In a commercial setting, the one that pays the bill has the first rights. And the portuguese are not that stupid!

But the alouette III is a great heli for search and rescue, one of the easiest to use, because it has almost no extra’s that could fail to work. In cars this would be: the deux chevaux. Great car, but it has some limitations.

The dutch ones did not even have standard a radar and certainly not something like infrared or other sophisticated aviation equipment on board, the flying was all on eye sight of the crew.

I have seen some magnificent actions with this heli in the french and austrain alps. Mostly to fly out wounded and sick people.

But this heli is also useful for commercial air pictures, but the camera would be on the outside of the heli. portugal has also some very good agusta heli’s with standard equipment of far better use if you want pictures to use for forensic work. And the redwoods could have fly brittish in stead of a french donkey heli. The agusta could take also the complete redwood met team at once. But maybe they found that to risky, you never know with those horrible outlandish portuguese people, wouldn't you think?

So yes, it was just sight seeing touring and taking pictures looking nice on the wall, taking a picture out of your hands for mapping, in a small heli like this, this would be useless for forensic digging.
So it was the cheap option.

But you could fly very low with the alouette III, so maybe the had made a nice whoosh on a lot of curtains. Maybe the rest of team redwoods was inside 5a keeping the door handle.

This was not a forensic tour to portugal, they would have send some real experts in forensics and not the boss and his companion animals. What could they do, you only can watch a forensic team, stay where they don’t like you to be and they make notes themselves.

If they follow this line in their inquiries , what can we expect, digging holes with a leopard tank on the rua’s of pdl? Or a yellow submarine to explore the beaches?

by stillsloppingout 11.05.14 20:09

frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .

IMO There will be no arrests , as this programme in Portugal shows in case we don't only know is that the " investigation " is just posturing by SY , they are a laughing stock ,but they don't care .

The only sincere thing Redwood [ aka Lord Charles ] has said where his facial expression mirrored what was coming out of his mouth was when he said Neither the McCann's or any of there friends are suspects .

This whole charade is just that . I suggest Exclusive pix pack a wide angle lens as i half expect SY to burst on the scene next week like the opening scene from apocalypse now.
[Ps love the "staged " shot through the window in Portugal to give the impression they were being papped !!!! ] too funny

by aiyoyo 11.05.14 20:15

Bishop Brennan wrote:Why a military helicopter? Civilian ones are much bigger, easier to hire and cheaper. Do we know if this one had any specialist kit on board? Military choppers are not designed to find graves or bodies. So what kit would they have that could be useful? I'm struggling to see it. Special cameras have been suggested and I guess that's it. Expensive hi def pics....? Their own super sharp version of google earth to play with back home?

Military helicopter would have state of the art technology equipment and devices useful for purposes that civilian helicopter won't need to have.
Also you need trained specialist skillfull at using those electronics devices and adept at analysing the ground and sea surfaces, well at least fit for whatever purpose they set out for.
Besides the pilot I should think there might be a geologist or whatever you called those type of experts tagging along with the Police.
It's expensive to hire and deploy helicopter so would imagine they would have made the most of that one trip to avoid repeated hire.

by **Tony Bennett** 11.05.14 20:19

Bishop Brennan wrote:Why a military helicopter?

It may not do the job any better than a non-military one.

The important thing for the Met is that it looks and sounds much better

by margaret 11.05.14 20:37

frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .

Have no fear. The Mccanns have lost all support. Do you really think the public will stand for all this money being spent to find out what happened to Madeleine only to have the very people SY blame get away with their crimes? To another country or new identities aswell.

No way!

I think SY have been drip feeding the possibility of the mcs guilt for a while, all that will happen is a media frenzy - but like we've seen this week... When it comes to not damaging the search the media stays quiet - they will stay quiet until any trial is over too. They will have their pound of flesh later.

I think the public wil be shocked but relieved a result was finally obtained. Crowds at court appearances can be controlled.

by Guest 11.05.14 20:44

this is what could be done with the alouette III, if you give a portuguese pilot the free hand.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

with the sound, specially for tony!

by **Tony Bennett** 11.05.14 21:29

onehand wrote:This is what could be done with the Alouette III, if you give a Portuguese pilot a free hand.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

with the sound, specially for Tony!

Seriously impressive, thanks very mcuh for the link!

I can see why Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood chose this one!

by Liz Eagles 11.05.14 21:32

Tony Bennett wrote:
onehand wrote:This is what could be done with the Alouette III, if you give a Portuguese pilot a free hand.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

with the sound, specially for Tony!
Seriously impressive, thanks very mcuh for the link!

I can see why Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood chose this one!

I wonder if he managed to take a 'selfie' big grin

by ChippyM 11.05.14 21:36

aiyoyo wrote:
Bishop Brennan wrote:Why a military helicopter? Civilian ones are much bigger, easier to hire and cheaper. Do we know if this one had any specialist kit on board? Military choppers are not designed to find graves or bodies. So what kit would they have that could be useful? I'm struggling to see it. Special cameras have been suggested and I guess that's it. Expensive hi def pics....? Their own super sharp version of google earth to play with back home?

Military helicopter would have state of the art technology equipment and devices useful for purposes that civilian helicopter won't need to have.
Also you need trained specialist skillfull at using those electronics devices and adept at analysing the ground and sea surfaces, well at least fit for whatever purpose they set out for.
Besides the pilot I should think there might be a geologist or whatever you called those type of experts tagging along with the Police.
It's expensive to hire and deploy helicopter so would imagine they would have made the most of that one trip to avoid repeated hire.

There were 2 extra men in the SY team when compared to those who flew over in January. In portuguese reports it was said 2 forensics people went up in the helicopter and one more SY person.

I remain hopeful that they were actually doing something useful but as other members have pointed out, but why were they just pointing hand held cameras out of the door? I can't find if these helicopters would have any more advanced equipment although they are used in search and rescue. I'm hopeful but not totally convinced this was a genuine exercise.

by Guest 11.05.14 22:40

Mmmmm.... 1st pic as cops dig....

What tripe is this i wonder....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 11.05.14 22:44

The Sun has to put there tuppenceworth of shite in too....

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by aiyoyo 11.05.14 23:02

ChippyM wrote:

There were 2 extra men in the SY team when compared to those who flew over in January. In portuguese reports it was said 2 forensics people went up in the helicopter and one more SY person.

I remain hopeful that they were actually doing something useful but as other members have pointed out, but why were they just pointing hand held cameras out of the door? I can't find if these helicopters would have any more advanced equipment although they are used in search and rescue. I'm hopeful but not totally convinced this was a genuine exercise.

Would imagine apart from pilot at least one PJ and one MET detective plus one photographer and maybe a couple of experts were in the helicopter.
The MET would have provided a very good basis before the Portuguese approved this operation hence I believe both sides were very committed to whatever they were doing, though what they were looking for I can't even hazard a guess.

by noddy100 11.05.14 23:06

TV news programme in Portugal today announced the SY visit a farce to get themselves on TV and justify themselves to the uk public. The ridiculed the helicopters and digging 100%

by noddy100 11.05.14 23:08

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by aiyoyo 11.05.14 23:11

noddy100 wrote:TV news programme in Portugal today announced the SY visit a farce to get themselves on TV and justify themselves to the uk public. The ridiculed the helicopters and digging 100%

The Portuguese rubbished the MET's investigation and on this side of the continent the Mccanns and UK media rubbished the PJ investigations, quid pro quo then ?
Best not to be taken in by Media's nonsense.

by noddy100 11.05.14 23:12

Take

aiyoyo wrote:
noddy100 wrote:TV news programme in Portugal today announced the SY visit a farce to get themselves on TV and justify themselves to the uk public. The ridiculed the helicopters and digging 100%

The Portuguese rubbished the MET's investigation and on this side of the continent the Mccanns and UK media rubbished the PJ investigations, quid pro quo then ?
Best not to be taken in by Media's nonsense.

Taken in?

by aiyoyo 11.05.14 23:13

noddy100 wrote:Take
aiyoyo wrote:
noddy100 wrote:TV news programme in Portugal today announced the SY visit a farce to get themselves on TV and justify themselves to the uk public. The ridiculed the helicopters and digging 100%

The Portuguese rubbished the MET's investigation and on this side of the continent the Mccanns and UK media rubbished the PJ investigations, quid pro quo then ?
Best not to be taken in by Media's nonsense.
Taken in?

Ignore ?

by noddy100 11.05.14 23:15

Oh oh i do find it quite interesting tbh but take most things with a pinch if salt until proven

by lj 11.05.14 23:31

Tony Bennett wrote:QUOTE

"Poor Maddie. A British police chief who just wants to be on TV uses Maddie's parents' claims to show off - and comes to Portugal to meddle in the Portuguese investigation. To show off, on TV, they 'investigate' idiotic leads, for the English to see - i.e. just for the sake of appearances - and they even do 'aerial searches' (!!!) seven years after the child disappeared. An embarrassment to him and to the Portuguese state".

in Correio da Manhã, May 11, 2014

Correio da Manha has spoken for me.

Operation Grange is an indelible stain on the fabric of our country.

And for me.

I can't speak for your country, Tony, but I agree Operation Grange is a farce.

by lj 11.05.14 23:35

stillsloppingout wrote:
frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .
IMO There will be no arrests , as this programme in Portugal shows in case we don't only know is that the " investigation " is just posturing by SY , they are a laughing stock ,but they don't care .

The only sincere thing Redwood [ aka Lord Charles ] has said where his facial expression mirrored what was coming out of his mouth was when he said Neither the McCann's or any of there friends are suspects .

This whole charade is just that . I suggest Exclusive pix pack a wide angle lens as i half expect SY to burst on the scene next week like the opening scene from apocalypse now.
[Ps love the "staged " shot through the window in Portugal to give the impression they were being papped !!!! ] too funny

Thanks stillslopping. Funny I just used the word charade too.

by Liz Eagles 11.05.14 23:50

What next? Andy and the covert crew sky dive into Portugal on a night raid with a handy photographer?

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by Okeydokey 12.05.14 0:01

aquila wrote:What next? Andy and the covert crew sky dive into Portugal on a night raid with a handy photographer?

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No, that's too low profile for them. They need something that will really grab the front pages.

by espeland 12.05.14 0:29

Poor Maddie. A British police chief who just wants to be on TV uses Maddie's parents' claims to show off - and comes to Portugal to meddle in the Portuguese investigation.

Perhaps the performance was not intended for the British or Portuguese public, but for the attention of a certain group of nine.

I really don't believe an afternoon 'trip' in a military helicopter can be arranged the same morning.

If British television shows images of the group walking through PdL or our papers picture them enjoying a Coke in their favourite cafe over there, chances are increased that the target group will notice and the pressure on them increased.

by ultimaThule 12.05.14 1:03

frost wrote:My worry is should any arrests take place and they be of anyone who took part in the holiday with all the media attention over the last 7 years could they claim they could not have a fair trial and indeed get off on a technicality and then perhaps end up being given new identities at the expense of the British taxpayer ?

I dearly hope not but it is a fear that I have .

if it does ever go to trial can you imagine the streets outside the courts ? I think the public backlash would be on a scale never witnessed before .

In the scenario you've outlined and based on what I've read and seen of the Portuguese media's coverage, imo there would be a case for claiming that a fair trial could not be had in Portugal. However, with regard to the UK's media coverage and again imo, this would not be the case in the event that a criminal trial was scheduled to take place in the courts of England/Wales.

With regard to 'new identities', and yet again imo, it would be unlikely for this provision to be made in such circumstances but as much of this case would appear to be unprecedented, it seems to me that this eventuality cannot be entirely ruled out. That said, should anyone who customarily resides in the UK be charged in connection with this case and acquitted on a technicality, it's my belief that individual would be unable to continue living in these sceptred isles.