"Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

I agree that there are questions to be answered as to why the family did not come forward immediately to report what they'd seen but I can't dismiss the whole lot of them as liars either.

The Met are so unpopular atm and so much press re corruption etc that
I would think to solve a case as big as this would do wonders for them PR wise.
If it does indeed become a whitewash then the back story must be something pretty huge
for them to sacrifice the glory

noddy100 wrote:The Met are so unpopular atm and so much press re corruption etc that
I would think to solve a case as big as this would do wonders for them PR wise.
If it does indeed become a whitewash then the back story must be something pretty huge
for them to sacrifice the glory

Yes - if it is a whitewash then it will be obviously the case to a large percentage of the population. Very dangerous game to play with public opinion so low.

Put yourself in Mr Smith's shoes.

Your out having a lovely evening with your family. Few drinks, bite to eat etc. All good fun.

You come out of a bar and notice a guy walking down the street with a small child in his arms. Nothing unusual about that. You make a passing comment but it's ignored. Again nothing unusual about that.

You quickly forget about it.

Next day you hear about an abduction. Small girl goes missing. Suddenly PDL turns into a circus that has never been seen before. Police and Press everywhere. Searches being carried out etc etc.

You start to recall that YES we did see that person the night before carrying a child. Surely it was a holidaymaker though. No abductor would be silly enough to walk along the streets. They would be in a car and off... would they not?

The Media is going crazy. You start to see pictures of the 'distraught' parents being broadcasted around the world. Gerry giving his statements etc. The whole world 'believes' straight away that YES, this is an abduction.

You recognise Gerry. Hey that looks a bit like that guy we saw. Don't be silly it can't be. Yeah of course not. Silly me. 

The media intrusion is getting ridiculous and you want to get the hell of there and get home. 

In the back of your mind, you have niggling doubts that Gerry could be said abductor. Should we say something? Well lets wait, as i'm sure other people must of seen the same person too. Lets see if they come forward too. We don't really want the police coming here and we don't really want to get involved in this. 

Nobody has come forward about that man we saw. The media are saying this is the man (Tannerman). Well that's certainly not who we saw is it.

Must of been an innocent holidaymaker then after all. Good job we didn't go to the police. Would of wasted there time.

Some time later. 

Hey, just seen the father again on the news. The way he was carrying his other child then. Wow that does look really like that guy we saw doesn't it. Not certain but maybe 60-80% sure. What do you think.. Yeah it does. Do you think we should say something.

Yes i think we should now. That expat bloke i've met a few times. Robert. Looks like they are saying he could be the abductor. No way was it him that we saw was it.

Let me call them and tell them what we saw. We should of done this ages ago.............


ETA - i don't think a whole family, especially children, would lie to the police.

my thoughts too.

Good post Andrew77R, that pretty much sums it up for me too.

I have to say thats pretty much how I think events would have panned out

I absolutely agree that a multi-generational family, such as the Smiths, engrossed in their own happy family holiday would not be fitting candidates for creating a conspiracy, to perjure themselves (including their teenage daughter) to produce such 'wispy' and 'varied' observations, and to seek to deliberately sway the truth and the proper search for a child missing from her own family.

The 'wispy' observations from differing members of the Smith family are the 'head buried in shoulder' 'the refusal /lack of reply', 'the buttons on trousers' etc.

They made a few but simply expressed observations to the police, no erms, well's, distract, deviate, you know, like, sort of 'nothings'.

They came forward, they were not 'summoned' and they expressed their fears.

If the guy had been Robert Murat and as Martin Smith knew him, he would have said, Hi Robert, taking your little girl home ?

If the guy had been Robert Murat, he would not have sought to hide his face from the Smiths, unless of course, he was being criminal and if so why on earth would he not use a car to steal Maddie or whisk her away for, or from, K and G.

If Robert Murat was being set up by the McCs and friends, and the Smiths felt the 'concealed man' was NOT Robert Murat, they would be right to come forward following the claim that he was involved.

If they did this just to protect a 'friend' then their statements are very flimsy indeed. They are not robust enough to swing the vote away from Robert Murat and since 'over-egging' seems to be the order of the McCanns' day, then the Smiths would have had to be rather more convincing if they were intending that any 'lies to protect Murat' should be totally convincing.

Re the AR 'two witnesses' who could be a reference to the Smith Family, it could just be a linguistic thing that we are being hypercritical in analysing, or perhaps it could mean "other witnesses'.

We do not know if 'other people' saw the 'Smithman' and have not yet been divulged by the PJ.

True, if they had been Brits, then no doubt the papers would have been all over them like flies, big fat, noisy, invasive ones, the sort you will actually want to get out of your chair to have a go at with a big effective fly swat.

But suppose it has come forward to the PJ, local people/ witnesses even, and happy as it is, the PJ don't let the info out until the files are released.

So, perhaps the McCs would like to get their hands on such info if it exists, and perhaps the UK Met et alia, would also like to get this info, or perhaps they already have and that was what Andy Redwood might have been referring to. Who knows....

I do not think we can say that the Smith family statements were solely responsible for getting Murat de-arquido'd, so back to the premise that they more than likely were making known their observations, fears, and albeit they were weak observations, they were wanting to be putting the info with the police with which they could do as necessary and perhaps even on the basis that others may have called in and their own observations could help support or corroborate other witness observations.

I think the fact that they were paid a visit to by kennedy and his lawyers also speaks volumes ? .
Have they been ALSO IMO paid off ,like the nannies

No doubt, this is why the Smith family didn't want to come forward in the first place, they did not want get involved in the "McCanns' media circus" and who could blame them.

Now that that the whole family are being called liars on a public forum must be excruciating for themselves, their family, friends, neighbours, and work colleagues.   Who would want to come forward to be a witness to any crime if they will be vilified and called "liars" on a public forum in the future.

If I remember correctly when TB was in court, didn't the Judge mention something along the lines of what would happen in the future if the McCanns were found to have not been telling the truth with regard to the disappearance of Madeleine.  I can't remember the exact words but he was not obviously convinced that the McCanns were off the hook 100%.

if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938

quote A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..




would have done their case a whole lot of good

joyce1938 wrote:if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938

I used to work with a set of twins who were almost identical, but because I knew them so well I could tell which one was which from the back because of their hair, their build and the way they held themselves.  Even our boss couldn't tell the difference, no doubt because he had only seen them from the front standing together most of the time.

Murat had a different hair style to GM and a different body build, he also wore glasses I believe as his eyesight was so bad.

r amaral took the smiths serious enough to arrange to have them go over and stay overnight ,which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over the case.not certain mr Amaral would have endorsed them ,but he never got the chance ,and then neither did they,seems unfair their name has been connected  ever since ,pity they were not given chance to be heard . joyce1938

Markus 2 wrote:quote A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..




would have done their case a whole lot of good

Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mirror.  If you read the post above yours you will see that GA was going to ask the Smiths to come back to Portugal for requestioning but he was taken off the case before he could carry it through.

That is quoted in GA's book, so it isn't "make believe".

quote; which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over

So was this new person protecting the Mcanns and Smiths are legit round in circles ,who is he

Markus 2 wrote:A simple search will reveal that Martin Smith is reported in the Daily Mirror claiming the Portugese authorities never took him seriously..

If PJ were trying to nail the Mcanns then why not  take it seriously..

would have done their case a whole lot of good

Goncalo Amaral was preparing to fly Martin Smith and several of his family members back to Portugal in September 2007, before he was removed from the case.  In October 2013, SY reached the same point in the investigation as Goncalo, that is Smithman was back in the spotlight.  Where Smithman disappeared to during the remaining months of the original investigation, we don't know, as the original investigation came to a halt when the McCanns and their friends refused to return to Portugal for a reconstruction.  

Both the Portuguese and the British have now done reconstructions, albeit none of the original cast members took part.  SY have brought Smithman back in October 2013, so it would appear that both investigations have gone way past the point where the first investigation was scuppered.  

I did hear a voice recording of Martin Smith a while ago, but I cannot remember where I came across it, it may even have been car radio.  If anyone knows where recording is, it is well worth listening to.    He sounded like a genuine, honest guy - entirely different to all the other people I have heard speak on this subject.

Ask yourself, who benefits from the divide and rule stuff regarding  SY and PJ being at odds over the investigation?

 One simple answer, so I do not believe that any police force is leaking like a sieve to the press.

PR pure and simples imo.

To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..

stillsloppingout wrote:I think the fact that they were paid a visit to by kennedy and his lawyers also speaks volumes ? .
Have they been ALSO IMO paid off ,like the nannies

I don't think they would have been paid off, but I do wonder if they were 'leaned' on.

Andrew77R wrote:To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..

I've just written similar   and I think your assessment of the situation sounds plausible.

Andrew77R wrote:To me the Smith's seem a fairly normal, fairly honest family. (not that i know them in any way)

IIRC they have not really muttered a word since Kennedy popped over to see them all lawyered up.

Bribed, threatened, intimidated???

Strange one that..

If the McCanns ever end up in a court of law let's hope that Kennedy is with them (along with many others).

Cristobell wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:I think the fact that they were paid a visit to by kennedy and his lawyers also speaks volumes ? .
Have they been ALSO IMO paid off ,like the nannies

I don't think they would have been paid off, but I do wonder if they were 'leaned' on.

YEP AND BACK TO THIS



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 14:10
Re the Smiths: someone I know well in Ireland told me a lot of Irish people frequent PDL, and the word among them is: don’t get involved in this case because pressure will be brought to bear if you do

This seems to have turned into yet another Smith thread. So as to find things easily and keep things on topic perhaps the discussion could continue here.......

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I may try and move posts later but it is rather a difficult job...

candyfloss wrote:This seems to have turned into yet another Smith thread.  So as to find things easily and keep things on topic perhaps the discussion could continue here.......

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I may try and move posts later but it is rather a difficult job...

Maybe a new thread on Smith CF, if makes thing's easier for you....

Newintown wrote:

joyce1938 wrote:if my memory  is serving me right , I believe I have read of Mr Amaral that before he was sent off to Faro to work suddenly ,he had made plans and the smiths were coming back to give information on what they had observed. It was stopped by the man that took over.  I think that watching how some people move and hold head etc ,is good indication ,if familier with them . Like mr smith was certain it was not r murat he saw that night,if he knew him from various holidays ,he may have a very good idea if it was murat or not . Then when he saw gm coming down steps of plane ,he also observed his gait too,and felt he was who the family had seen that night.I would be surprised if he wasn't telling what he felt was the case,he didn't say definatly ,but he felt it was so. joyce1938

I used to work with a set of twins who were almost identical, but because I knew them so well I could tell which one was which from the back because of their hair, their build and the way they held themselves.  Even our boss couldn't tell the difference, no doubt because he had only seen them from the front standing together most of the time.

Murat had a different hair style to GM and a different body build, he also wore glasses I believe as his eyesight was so bad.

The Smith's description of the man seen carrying the child is so similar to Gerry it is uncanny, late 30's, athletic build, short neat hair, then when the efits emerged, he even had the same face (depending on the angle).    

What would be the odds of the 'abductor' looking exactly like the father of the child who was abducted?  Looking at the area and the demographics, I would say pretty slim.  The other men in the Tapas group, could have fitted the description, as they too are sporty late 30's, short haired, but the efit faces look nothing like them.  And none of the previous suspects look like him either.  

In my opinion the chances of Gerry having an doppelganger of himself in a small village in Portugal are extremely remote.  Add to that, the idea that this identical Gerry also happens to be a predatory child snatcher wandering around PDL at the same time as himself, and we are in the realms of cuckoo land. Maybe the 5000 people who phoned in after Crimewatch pointed that out.

Back briefly.
I cannot for the life of me understand, why someone quoting tabloids to make his/her point is allowed to continue to do so.

This is a very interesting link regarding the proposed dig.  It is the statement of Mark Harrison the British Search expert brought in to survey the area and to identify possible burial sites.  It might give us a clue as to what is going on now.  Mark Harrison is the police expert who recommended that the cadaver and blood dogs be brought in to search the McCanns apartment and surrounding areas.  

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Markus 2 wrote:quote; which was cancelled as soon as the new person took over

So was this new person protecting the Mcanns and Smiths are legit round in circles ,who is he

The new person, Paulo Rebelo, took over - and probably did as he was told.

Mr smith. Knew it wasn't Murat becAuse he would have instantly recognised him.  You don't have to see a face to recognise someone you know.

As for SY leaking to clarry.  No way.  It's obvious dirty tricks & spin IMHOIMHO