Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by **Tony Bennett** 10.05.14 22:58

russiandoll wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

And the Portuguese are IMO dead right.

The two good things to come out of this are that:

(a) any lingering doubt that the PJ and Operation Grange have any kind of relationship - other than one little short of hatred towards each other - has surely now been removed or good, and

(b) Scotland Yard, to anyone one reasonably well-informed on the case, have shown themselves to be the dishonest, pretentious, time-and-money wasting fools and parasites that they have been ever since the red-headed wizardress forced this review/investigation on to a reluctant Prime Minister.

Credit however to the Portuguese Police who made sure that Redwood and his men paid for this helicopter farce - and have royally humiliated the once-great and mighty Scotland Yard.

How can this monumental farce be allowed to continue for one hour longer?

Why are the MPs, the Metropolitan Police Authority, honest senior officers in the force (if we have any left, that is) and other public figures not demanding answers and a full public enquiry into the utter waste of public money on an investigation that is clearly heading nowhere at all.

In fact, why are we on this forum just typing way here all the time - and not breaking off to take up these concerns directly with all the powers-that-be?

Is it not time for each one of us to consider and discuss what action we can take to halt this expensive, pointless circus?

P.S. Prediction: THERE WILL BE NO DIG

by ChippyM 10.05.14 23:01

nglfi wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
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Judiciary believed Maddie was kidnapped by Foreigner !

Changed of direction ?
I'm really not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, the article ses to state that the PJ now believe Maddie was killed by a foreigner - yes. That the person subsequently left Portugal - yes. But it also mentions abduction and the idea that Maddie's body is not in the country anymore. Really don't know what to make of it.

Tapas people would still count as foreign...hopefully!

ETA what source has this come from if the PJ Don't talk about investigations?

by plebgate 10.05.14 23:02

Agree with your first post RD, disrespect without doubt I think. What is the point of it? I thought Football news belonged on the back pages?

by russiandoll 10.05.14 23:05

from the front page

Police plans to dig to solve the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are USELESS, local cops say.

Police officers believe Maddy, whose 11th birthday is tomorrow, fell victim to a foreigner who fled the country.

And they are baffled by the inquiry by Scotland Yard.

Does this mean that the PJ do not believe that there is a body in Portugal?

If they believe she died at the hands of a non-Portuguese, or died accidentally and her body disposed of by the same, why are they so sure that she is not buried near PdL?

This must mean that they have evidence that she was moved elsewhere?

I am a bit confused by the above and also not convinced that the PJ have spoken to a British tabloid...it is the PJ who have made a big noise about no noise in the UK media.

by plebgate 10.05.14 23:12

I may be wrong, but I thought it was a judge who said that a dig could go ahead. Why would a judge give permission if the PJ believe it to be all nonsense?

by Guest 10.05.14 23:15

McMitchell spin (tosh) more likely.

Never in a million years would the PJ talk to the Daily Star.

I certainly don't think the PJ believe the below.

Police officers believe Maddy, whose 11th birthday is tomorrow, fell victim to a foreigner who fled the country.

Team McCann want people to think digging is a waste of time.

Team McCann are bricking it in case something is found from the digging.

IMO

by russiandoll 10.05.14 23:19

as in this photo I posted after the German CW :

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by Guest 10.05.14 23:22

russiandoll wrote:as in this photo I posted after the German CW :

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Haha - Yep.

by Guest 10.05.14 23:32

Andrew77R wrote:

I certainly don't think the PJ believe the below.

Police officers believe Maddy, whose 11th birthday is tomorrow, fell victim to a foreigner who fled the country.

IMO

On the contrary, I hope that's exactly what the Portuguese believe and are well on the road to proving as much!

by ChippyM 10.05.14 23:32

Andrew77R wrote:McMitchell spin (tosh) more likely.

Never in a million years would the PJ talk to the Daily Star.

I certainly don't think the PJ believe the below.

Police officers believe Maddy, whose 11th birthday is tomorrow, fell victim to a foreigner who fled the country.

Team McCann want people to think digging is a waste of time.

Team McCann are bricking it in case something is found from the digging.

IMO

Team McCann are also foreigners that fled the country!

by canada12 10.05.14 23:41

I don't think Madeleine's final resting place is a diggable plot of ground within the general area of PDL.

Although I do think that she was placed in at least one or two places nearby temporarily. And may have been moved multiple times, to keep ahead of police, dogs, etc.

Agree with those who have pointed out that the McCanns (as well as their friends) are all foreigners who fled the country.

by Markus 2 10.05.14 23:43

Resort dig bid fury

From DANIEL SANDERSON in Faro, Portugal
Saturday, May 10, 2014

PLANS by cops hunting for Madeleine McCann to excavate four sites in Praia da Luz at the height of tourist season have sparked anger.

Local council leader Victor Mata said residents in the Portuguese resort are "fed up" with the seven-year-probe.

He said: "It's bad for tourism. It beggars belief, preparing to open up holes a month before summer."

Another local said he believed families with young children were staying away from the resort, adding: "The economic crisis affected tourism, but it's my view the Madeleine McCann case has as well."

It came as Met detectives last night studied aerial photos of the search sites as they wait for Portuguese police chiefs to tell them if they can be involved in the digs. The locations include wasteland next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine vanished aged three in 2007 and hillside land where mum Kate dreamt her daughter was.

Almeida Rodrigues, director of the Policia Judiciaria, will rule on whether the Met can be present and on whether to use Brit sniffer dogs and ground-penetrating radar.

He is expected to make up his mind over the weekend.

Although there has been no suggestion that hyperspectral imaging is being used, the following article highlights how this can be very useful in locating remains that have laid buried for longer than 5 years:

Mentions four areas here, hyperspectral imaging wonder if it is being used and they are studying it . Why should they not be allowed in these digs

by Guest 10.05.14 23:47

Dee Coy wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:

I certainly don't think the PJ believe the below.

Police officers believe Maddy, whose 11th birthday is tomorrow, fell victim to a foreigner who fled the country.

IMO
On the contrary, I hope that's exactly what the Portuguese believe and are well on the road to proving as much!

Ahh - yes, see what you mean.

Didn't read it like that at first glance.

Apologies.

by Liz Eagles 10.05.14 23:54

I think it's a big mistake to think that all things Portuguese = saintly and all things British = dodgy with regards to Madeleine.

The Portuguese government allowed political interference from the UK from the off.

Spudgun's blog has merit and I'd like to add that the Portuguese government will have its own agenda and things it wants swept under the carpet just as the UK government does.

To my mind this has never been about justice for Madeleine.

Many people with their own agendas have subsequently jumped on the financial gravy train.

There was something to be covered up in both Portugal and UK that needed to be dealt with imo which is why this whole pantomime has manifested itself.

There's nothing like rich and powerful people who have something seedy they'd rather not have poked at to cause such a complete travesty.

It's not about which flag you fly or which scarf you wear. It's not about that at all. It's about individuals who have something to hide. It's not about diplomatic relations either. This isn't some kind of war between Portugal and UK. It's about making this thing go away with a mutually satisfactory outcome.

Why did the McCanns receive so much unprecedented assistance in the first place?

There are no saints in this. There's a little girl whose demise has been exploited.

Just my opinion.

by ChippyM 10.05.14 23:54

Markus 2Although there has been no suggestion that hyperspectral imaging is being used, the following article highlights how this can be very useful in locating remains that have laid buried for longer than 5 years: wrote:
Mentions four areas here, hyperspectral imaging wonder if it is being used and they are studying it . Why should they not be allowed in these digs

Hyperspectral imaging is interesting and a recent development, aparentley it can detect individual burial sites.

If they used it I imagine it would negate the need to do loads of digging all over the area.

by Guest 10.05.14 23:55

@ Andrew 77R

No need to apologise. Anyway, it's all codswallop because there's no way the PJ will have given an exclusive to the Star. big grin

by stillsloppingout 10.05.14 23:58

canada12 wrote:I don't think Madeleine's final resting place is a diggable plot of ground within the general area of PDL.

Although I do think that she was placed in at least one or two places nearby temporarily. And may have been moved multiple times, to keep ahead of police, dogs, etc.

Agree with those who have pointed out that the McCanns (as well as their friends) are all foreigners who fled the country.

I dont for one minute think the PJ have given a quote to the british press , but it only takes one pi**ed off disgruntled cop to fire a parting shot . I do hope that is the case , as surly Portugal are not bending to the Powerful Mc lobby . poor Mr Amaral.

Ps re the Yard in the helecopter shot . it looked to me like he was simply taking pics on a Normal SLR Nikon camera .no heat seeking gizmos . Nice work if you can get it .

by Guest 10.05.14 23:59

Dee Coy wrote:@ Andrew 77R

No need to apologise. Anyway, it's all codswallop because there's no way the PJ will have given an exclusive to the Star.

Yep - certainly agree it's all codswallop.

by squeaker 11.05.14 0:01

If the PJ really do think a foreigner is to blame, then the only ones they KNOW have fled the country are the McCanns and their friends.

by utahagen 11.05.14 0:26

Andrew7706 wrote: "Team McCann want people to think digging is a waste of time."

As the pop song goes, "You got it!/Baby, you've got it."

If this dig is a farce, why did the McCanns look more terrified on the Today Show this week than they did the day after Madeleine was "abducted" seven years ago?

by Markus 2 11.05.14 0:27

Giving in to psychic feelings from Kate to search that area, makes no sense or is there more to this.

Yet the other psychic dig or more informative one that Birch claims, they are taking him to court.

It came as Met detectives last night studied aerial photos of the search sites as they wait for Portuguese police chiefs to tell them if they can be involved in the digs. The locations include wasteland next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine vanished aged three in 2007 and hillside land where mum Kate dreamt her daughter was.

So it was after this dream that they came under suspicion very odd going back there imo unless they hope to find something relating to the Mcanns

Just weeks after Madeleine McCann vanished, sobbing mum Kate rang the Portuguese detective appointed to look after her to tell of a horrific dream in which she had seen her daughter’s dead body.
Distraught Kate said Madeleine had been lying on a hillside overlooking the beach at Praia da Luz. She begged Inspector Ricardo Paiva to search the spot.
Astonishingly, rather than inspiring pity at a desperate mother’s plight, the incident sparked only suspicion in the minds of the officers who were supposed to be hunting Madeleine and her abductor.
And yesterday Paiva told a Portuguese court the frantic phone call was the crucial episode that led to both Kate and Gerry becoming suspects. Kate and Gerry sat just yards from Paiva as he gave evidence in their libel trial against disgraced ex-detective Goncalo Amaral.
He said: “The turning point of the investigation came after I received a phone call from Kate. She was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying.
“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”
Paiva, a family liaison officer, said he took the call at the end of July 2007. Madeleine had vanished on May 3.
Police duly searched the hillside but found no clues.
But Paiva said the call was the catalyst that persuaded Portuguese police to ask their British counterparts to bring in sniffer dogs to examine the McCanns’ flat.
He told the Lisbon court: “We decided to send the specialist dogs in. British police informed us about how they could detect the scent of death.”
But the detective admitted the police had been suspicious of the McCanns from the start – simply because they had tried to give the stalled hunt for Madeleine some much-needed momentum.
He added: “They disobeyed our request to keep quiet about the details of their daughter’s disappearance while we conducted our investigation. Instead, they turned it into a media circus.”

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by Guest 11.05.14 0:53

Jeremy Wilkins' mate Donal Macintyre with his journalism.... Pr*ck!!

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by margaret 11.05.14 1:04

sallypelt wrote:David Miliband opens up about IVF battle and adoption as battle with his brother for Labour leadership heats up

In response to Tony's post above, and without posting the entire post, what has often baffled me about the McCann's IVF treatment is how easy it was for Kate to get pregnant by this method. Taking into account what we've been told, that Madeleine appeared to have been a "difficult" baby, it's been stated that Kate was exhausted with Madeleine's lack of sleep etc, yet her and Gerry went ahead and had more IVF treatment, when Madeleine was little more than a year old, resulting in a girl AND boy. Call me cynical, but I can't quite get my head around how "perfect" this IVF treatment turned out to be for the McCann's, whereby it fails for so many people.

Believe me there's no magic. Every cycle has 25-30% chance of success. I've known people to have 12 cycles and nothing, and some who get lucky the first time.

by notlongnow 11.05.14 1:04

Good to see him back as he told the world how it was done some years back.

by Guest 11.05.14 1:11

notlongnow wrote:Good to see him back as he told the world how it was done some years back.

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The guy is a joke.

I saw him on a Manchester to London train about a year or so ago. Wish i had a few words with him then.

by listener 11.05.14 1:17

"It came as Met detectives last night studied aerial photos of the search sites as they wait for Portuguese police chiefs to tell them if they can be involved in the digs. The locations include wasteland next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine vanished aged three in 2007 and hillside land where mum Kate dreamt her daughter was."

Don't the Met have Google Earth on their PCs back at the yard?
So they were studying pictures purely for the media.

by garfy 11.05.14 1:25

squeaker wrote:If the PJ really do think a foreigner is to blame, then the only ones they KNOW have fled the country are the McCanns and their friends.

Maddie Case: PJ changes investigation line

Judiciary on the lead of foreign abductor

Investigators believe that the suspect took the English child and left the country

by Tânia Laranjo
10.05.2014

The Judiciary Police (PJ) changes the investigation line in the Maddie case. After the process into the disappearance of the English girl was reopened based on the similarity with five cases of children that allegedly were victims of abuse – and in which Euclides Monteiro, now deceased, appeared as the main suspect – the authorities now believe that the disappearance of Maddie may have been a one-of-a-kind case. translation - not an organised abduction The thesis that connected several situations continues to be followed by the English, (yeah right...at least according to the "leaks" given to MSM, that is)but the Judiciary defends that the indications that have been collected over the past six months weaken that theory.

They now believe that the abduction was an isolated situation and that the crime was committed by a foreigner as this is written by a Portugese based person, "foreign" means NOT PORTUGESE ie, British.. They also defend that the suspect left the countryand have yet to come back for the dig - wont' come back either, willingly – given that no other similar situation took place – and that the body, in a case of homicide,ie, no abductor is holding her in his basement; the dogs were right is no longer in our country, either she was removed, via vehicle, already deceased, to Spain. Nevertheless, this PJ theory is far from being closed. Sources that were contacted by CM recall that the case, as long as it is not clarified, allows for all kinds of hypotheses and speculationbecause the investigation was shut down by political forces..

Meanwhile, the diligences that were requested by the English authorities have no starting date. They've already started.On Thursday, the PJ authorized aerial photos to be taken, in order to understand where the excavations may take place. It is not known whether those will be carried out with the use of dogs or the special sonars that the English say they possess. What is certain is that all the costs will be covered by the British police, which now seems to believe that the little girl died in May of 2007, when she disappeared in Praia da Luz, Lagos. we told you so! Now, you can pay for it, we will not spend another cent on this messThe Scotland Yard members returned to England yesterday morning.

DETAILS

Grounds: One of the locations where the English police wants to carry out searches is a piece of ground near the Ocean Club.madeleine never left the OC until AFTER she was exhumed.

Roadworks: Another location of interest is the streets that were under work in May of 2007. as identified by Amaral and his team

by canada12 11.05.14 1:48

utahagen wrote:Andrew7706 wrote: "Team McCann want people to think digging is a waste of time."

As the pop song goes, "You got it!/Baby, you've got it."

If this dig is a farce, why did the McCanns look more terrified on the Today Show this week than they did the day after Madeleine was "abducted" seven years ago?

I think at least some of the terror comes from Kate and Gerry discovering that their mantra of "abducted and still alive and unharmed somewhere" has at last been discarded by the Met and the field is wide open now to investigate all possibilities. Before, they were fairly safe in their assumptions that everyone had bought their story and the worst they were guilty of was neglect for leaving Madeleine alone (and even then, it was of course "within the bounds of reasonable parenting", or words to that effect.) Now that story has been cast aside. The police are willing to look at all possibilities. And if all possibilities are on the table, that means Kate and Gerry and their friends back under the microscope too. And who knows what the microscope might uncover now that the high magnification has been switched on.

IMO.

by Guest 11.05.14 1:51

Sunday Express's latest...

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by canada12 11.05.14 2:00

Andrew77R wrote:Sunday Express's latest...

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It's hard not to make really sarcastic comments about this story. It was THEIR idea to stop the dig until after Madeleine's birthday?

Well, ok. Would this be to give "friends" over in Portugal time to move whatever it is they're afraid might be dug up? Now that the aerial photos have been taken and the ground surveyed and, in theory, nobody's watching? (an old trick, by the way)

IMO only.