Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by Guest 11.05.14 2:25

Interesting what this guy is saying on twitter. Although obviously could be b*llsh*t of course...

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[ltr]@IamIanHitchings[/ltr]

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: specialist American law enforcement agencies to take part in Portugal "field operation". [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Hi Jilly, I was merely informed by a reliable source. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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[ltr]@IamIanHitchings[/ltr]

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The American's have been involved from the outset. Where do you think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s DNA is held? In the US. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Get your brain cells working. We haven't any Forensic Science Services here in the UK. Also, Maddie's DNA is in the US. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s DNA has been held in the US since she disappeared. It's going to be a specialist "field operation". [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 2:40

Andrew77R wrote:Interesting what this guy is saying on twitter. Although obviously could be b*llsh*t of course...

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@IamIanHitchings

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: specialist American law enforcement agencies to take part in Portugal "field operation". [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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@IamIanHitchings

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Hi Jilly, I was merely informed by a reliable source. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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@IamIanHitchings

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The American's have been involved from the outset. Where do you think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s DNA is held? In the US. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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@IamIanHitchings

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Get your brain cells working. We haven't any Forensic Science Services here in the UK. Also, Maddie's DNA is in the US. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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@IamIanHitchings
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s DNA has been held in the US since she disappeared. It's going to be a specialist "field operation". [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"We haven't any Forensic Science Services here in the UK" = BS of course.

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 2:43

canada12 wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Sunday Express's latest...

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It's hard not to make really sarcastic comments about this story. It was THEIR idea to stop the dig until after Madeleine's birthday?

Well, ok. Would this be to give friends over in Portugal time to move whatever it is they're afraid might be dug up? Now that the aerial photos have been taken and the ground surveyed? (an old trick, by the way)

IMO only.

I am afraid I have to agree with you - I say afraid because it means I then have to agree the Met Police are either (a) complete incompetents in Police work or (b) are engaged in a monumental cover up. And of course (a) is a little bit unlikely isn't it?

by canada12 11.05.14 2:44

JillyCL ‏@JillyCL 8m
@IamIanHitchings Maddie's DNA was only sent to the US in 2007 because of Baby Grace [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] … #McCann

JillyCL ‏@JillyCL 24m
@IamIanHitchings That isn't "field operations". There are many forensic sci services in Europe. Why a need to send to the US? #McCann

by canada12 11.05.14 2:51

Okeydokey wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Sunday Express's latest...

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It's hard not to make really sarcastic comments about this story. It was THEIR idea to stop the dig until after Madeleine's birthday?

Well, ok. Would this be to give friends over in Portugal time to move whatever it is they're afraid might be dug up? Now that the aerial photos have been taken and the ground surveyed? (an old trick, by the way)

IMO only.

I am afraid I have to agree with you - I say afraid because it means I then have to agree the Met Police are either (a) complete incompetents in Police work or (b) are engaged in a monumental cover up. And of course (a) is a little bit unlikely isn't it?

Or (c) the Met and the PJ were both aware that saying they were going to dig up certain areas around PDL would cause some discomfort among suspects. So they went through an elaborate show to prove they were serious, even to the point of hiring a helicopter to show that they were taking photos of certain areas of interest.

Cue Kate and Gerry pleading with them to delay digging until after they celebrate Madeleine's birthday.

The Met dutifully go home, promising to return at some later, unspecified time. All visible activity ceases in PDL.

And then (and this is all pure speculation on my part), someone goes to suspect areas and makes sure suspect material won't be discovered.

Except they're being watched and monitored and followed, unknown to them.

Or (d), the Met delaying digging had absolutely nothing to do with Kate and Gerry, and it's pure spin that they're saying they asked their pal Andy to delay until after Madeleine's birthday (IMO).

All sorts of interesting possibilities here.

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 2:52

margaret wrote:
sallypelt wrote:David Miliband opens up about IVF battle and adoption as battle with his brother for Labour leadership heats up

In response to Tony's post above, and without posting the entire post, what has often baffled me about the McCann's IVF treatment is how easy it was for Kate to get pregnant by this method. Taking into account what we've been told, that Madeleine appeared to have been a "difficult" baby, it's been stated that Kate was exhausted with Madeleine's lack of sleep etc, yet her and Gerry went ahead and had more IVF treatment, when Madeleine was little more than a year old, resulting in a girl AND boy. Call me cynical, but I can't quite get my head around how "perfect" this IVF treatment turned out to be for the McCann's, whereby it fails for so many people.

Believe me there's no magic. Every cycle has 25-30% chance of success. I've known people to have 12 cycles and nothing, and some who get lucky the first time.

Quite. I don't think Sallypelt can know much about the subject. We're talking averages here. Obviously some couples are going to face virtually insurmountable barriers to conception (not necessarily understood by their doctors) which will mean more couples at the other end of the range have a good chance of conception with IVF. So then you come down to which group any particular IVF couple come under.

My sister conceived after first treatment with IVF. It's not unusual. Possibly some people here don't like the idea of IVF but it's been around for decades.

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 2:55

canada12 wrote:
Okeydokey wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Sunday Express's latest...

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It's hard not to make really sarcastic comments about this story. It was THEIR idea to stop the dig until after Madeleine's birthday?

Well, ok. Would this be to give friends over in Portugal time to move whatever it is they're afraid might be dug up? Now that the aerial photos have been taken and the ground surveyed? (an old trick, by the way)

IMO only.

I am afraid I have to agree with you - I say afraid because it means I then have to agree the Met Police are either (a) complete incompetents in Police work or (b) are engaged in a monumental cover up. And of course (a) is a little bit unlikely isn't it?

Or (c) the Met and the PJ were both aware that saying they were going to dig up certain areas around PDL would cause some discomfort among suspects. So they went through an elaborate show to prove they were serious, even to the point of hiring a helicopter to show that they were taking photos of certain areas of interest.

Cue Kate and Gerry pleading with them to delay digging until after they celebrate Madeleine's birthday.

The Met dutifully go home, promising to return at some later, unspecified time. All visible activity ceases in PDL.

And then (and this is all pure speculation on my part), someone goes to suspect areas and makes sure suspect material won't be discovered.

Except they're being watched and monitored and followed, unknown to them.

Or (d), the Met delaying digging had absolutely nothing to do with Kate and Gerry, and it's pure spin that they're saying they asked their pal Andy to delay until after Madeleine's birthday (IMO).

All sorts of interesting possibilities here.

OK Canada I accept the initial premise of (c) - it could be a Police ruse because Police do use ruses like putting suspects up for press interviews to see how they react.

Re (d) I need to catch up on the (usual) nonsense...McCann manipulation of the media is nothing new for sure!

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 2:58

Markus 2 wrote:Giving in to psychic feelings from Kate to search that area, makes no sense or is there more to this.

Yet the other psychic dig or more informative one that Birch claims, they are taking him to court.

It came as Met detectives last night studied aerial photos of the search sites as they wait for Portuguese police chiefs to tell them if they can be involved in the digs. The locations include wasteland next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine vanished aged three in 2007 and hillside land where mum Kate dreamt her daughter was.

So it was after this dream that they came under suspicion very odd going back there imo unless they hope to find something relating to the Mcanns

Just weeks after Madeleine McCann vanished, sobbing mum Kate rang the Portuguese detective appointed to look after her to tell of a horrific dream in which she had seen her daughter’s dead body.
Distraught Kate said Madeleine had been lying on a hillside overlooking the beach at Praia da Luz. She begged Inspector Ricardo Paiva to search the spot.
Astonishingly, rather than inspiring pity at a desperate mother’s plight, the incident sparked only suspicion in the minds of the officers who were supposed to be hunting Madeleine and her abductor.
And yesterday Paiva told a Portuguese court the frantic phone call was the crucial episode that led to both Kate and Gerry becoming suspects. Kate and Gerry sat just yards from Paiva as he gave evidence in their libel trial against disgraced ex-detective Goncalo Amaral.
He said: “The turning point of the investigation came after I received a phone call from Kate. She was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying.
“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”
Paiva, a family liaison officer, said he took the call at the end of July 2007. Madeleine had vanished on May 3.
Police duly searched the hillside but found no clues.
But Paiva said the call was the catalyst that persuaded Portuguese police to ask their British counterparts to bring in sniffer dogs to examine the McCanns’ flat.
He told the Lisbon court: “We decided to send the specialist dogs in. British police informed us about how they could detect the scent of death.”
But the detective admitted the police had been suspicious of the McCanns from the start – simply because they had tried to give the stalled hunt for Madeleine some much-needed momentum.
He added: “They disobeyed our request to keep quiet about the details of their daughter’s disappearance while we conducted our investigation. Instead, they turned it into a media circus.”

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“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”

So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.

by canada12 11.05.14 3:00

Okeydokey wrote:

OK Canada I accept the initial premise of (c) - it could be a Police ruse because Police do use ruses like putting suspects up for press interviews to see how they react.

Re (d) I need to catch up on the (usual) nonsense...McCann manipulation of the media is nothing new for sure!

Indeed they do use ruses - quite a lot. Including watching suspects to see how they react to certain questions and circumstances during press conferences. And interviews. And behind the scenes.

by lj 11.05.14 3:06

TheTruthWillOut wrote:What I really can't get my head round is why the McCann's have kept the story in the news for 7 years when they could have just let it die and be forgotten by most.

I mean, if they had let it die when the PJ closed the case in 2008, would the current investigation be happening at all?

As has been pointed out many times: sociopaths, and especially the narcissistic type need the attention, even negative one. They can't help themselves, since they were propelled in the news they have to be there cost what cost.

by canada12 11.05.14 3:07

Okeydokey wrote:
Markus 2 wrote:Giving in to psychic feelings from Kate to search that area, makes no sense or is there more to this.

Yet the other psychic dig or more informative one that Birch claims, they are taking him to court.

It came as Met detectives last night studied aerial photos of the search sites as they wait for Portuguese police chiefs to tell them if they can be involved in the digs. The locations include wasteland next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine vanished aged three in 2007 and hillside land where mum Kate dreamt her daughter was.

So it was after this dream that they came under suspicion very odd going back there imo unless they hope to find something relating to the Mcanns

Just weeks after Madeleine McCann vanished, sobbing mum Kate rang the Portuguese detective appointed to look after her to tell of a horrific dream in which she had seen her daughter’s dead body.
Distraught Kate said Madeleine had been lying on a hillside overlooking the beach at Praia da Luz. She begged Inspector Ricardo Paiva to search the spot.
Astonishingly, rather than inspiring pity at a desperate mother’s plight, the incident sparked only suspicion in the minds of the officers who were supposed to be hunting Madeleine and her abductor.
And yesterday Paiva told a Portuguese court the frantic phone call was the crucial episode that led to both Kate and Gerry becoming suspects. Kate and Gerry sat just yards from Paiva as he gave evidence in their libel trial against disgraced ex-detective Goncalo Amaral.
He said: “The turning point of the investigation came after I received a phone call from Kate. She was alone as Gerry was away and she was crying.
“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”
Paiva, a family liaison officer, said he took the call at the end of July 2007. Madeleine had vanished on May 3.
Police duly searched the hillside but found no clues.
But Paiva said the call was the catalyst that persuaded Portuguese police to ask their British counterparts to bring in sniffer dogs to examine the McCanns’ flat.
He told the Lisbon court: “We decided to send the specialist dogs in. British police informed us about how they could detect the scent of death.”
But the detective admitted the police had been suspicious of the McCanns from the start – simply because they had tried to give the stalled hunt for Madeleine some much-needed momentum.
He added: “They disobeyed our request to keep quiet about the details of their daughter’s disappearance while we conducted our investigation. Instead, they turned it into a media circus.”

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“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”

So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

by lj 11.05.14 3:21

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
sofieellis wrote:
I was about to post that I remember Vilamura being mentioned in Brian's first dream post - I'm quite embarrassed that I remember that!

It really would put the tin lid on this case if a psychic had it solved right from the off.

Not only that but a psychic like Brian. He is weirder than weird.

by Okeydokey 11.05.14 4:08

lj wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:What I really can't get my head round is why the McCann's have kept the story in the news for 7 years when they could have just let it die and be forgotten by most.

I mean, if they had let it die when the PJ closed the case in 2008, would the current investigation be happening at all?

As has been pointed out many times: sociopaths, and especially the narcissistic type need the attention, even negative one. They can't help themselves, since they were propelled in the news they have to be there cost what cost.

No I don't agree. In fact I think there was quite a long period of about a year or more when they tried the "no-comment" tactic.

Basically they needed to engage with the media initially for the first two phases (a) proving they were innocent and distraught parents and (b) defending themselves when they were put under Arguido status.

Then I think after the Arguido status was lifted, after a year or so of image-building campaigning they did go quiet. But what changed everything was Amaral's book I think.

They were determined that book would never see the light of day in the UK.

Welcome any comments if my timeline is wrong.

by Bishop Brennan 11.05.14 5:30

So what next? This seems to be the start of the end game. SY want out, and quickly. I suspect they have been told to shut it down. What were their options?

1. "Search for Maddie" for the rest of time, investigating every sex offender that has ever been to Portugal.
2. Declare "Maddie is dead" - but that the killer will never be found (or is dead).

Option 3 (arrest the McCanns) was never an option for SY, and never will be.

And so, over the last 3 days the world has been told that Maddie is dead - the 7-year search is over. So effective was the story (the helicopter ride was a terrific detail to add), that there is actually no need to do any digging. The message has been received by EVERYONE in the UK and Portugal. No-one is now looking for a live Maddie.

As to who was the killer / abductor? It doesn't really matter. SY can (and do) say that they have hundreds of leads, but can't follow them up. They can (and do) hint that it was done by a dead paedo. Dead or unfindable is fine - let the press speculate if they wish. They will soon grow tired and the story will fade away. They might even let Amaral win his libel case to give him his life (and money) back again. And now everyone is happy. McCann's officially cleared; Amaral goes back to his life; PJ close the case for ever; SY shut down grange. Politicians express thanks to PJ and SY, sorrow for the McCanns. McCanns hold a memorial and it's all over.

It's not the truth, it's not justice, but it's a neat and tidy end for all the major political and police players who by now have realised that Grange was a big mistake and colossal waste of money.

by canada12 11.05.14 5:56

And then it becomes an episode of Season 12 of "New Tricks" and is solved in 48 minutes by UCOS.
Hurray!

by Praiaaa 11.05.14 7:33

canada12 wrote:

“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”

So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

Clever!

by canada12 11.05.14 7:45

Praiaaa wrote:
canada12 wrote:

“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”

So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

Clever!

It's only just occurred to me in light of the helicopter searches and the mention that they'd be looking at the place that Kate saw in a dream. Nobody has ever questioned whether the dream and the sobbing phonecall were genuine. If you wanted to bury a body, the ideal place would be somewhere that had already been searched and wasn't likely to be searched again. Until now.

by frost 11.05.14 8:04

canada12 wrote:
Praiaaa wrote:
canada12 wrote:

“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”

So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

Clever!

It's only just occurred to me in light of the helicopter searches and the mention that they'd be looking at the place that Kate saw in a dream. Nobody has ever questioned whether the dream and the sobbing phonecall were genuine. If you wanted to bury a body, the ideal place would be somewhere that had already been searched and wasn't likely to be searched again. Until now.

I must admit that this thought has passed my mind before that the poor girl could have been moved to somewhere which had been previously searched indeed she could have been literally for want of a better phrase hiding in plain sight all these years .

I should imagine though that with the publicity surrounding the case nobody even if offered millions would be stupid enough to try and remove to another location apart from someone who was already involved from the start . I really do not want someone becoming a patsy for the whole sickening charade .

Its times like these I would dearly love to be a fly on the wall I can imagine the kind of convos taking place behind several closed doors right now .

interesting times hopefully the sh*t is about to hit the fan .

by Guest 11.05.14 8:06

canada12 wrote:

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

IMO i don't think Kate is cleverer enough to think of that sort of double bluff scenario.

I got the impression in those early days she was a nervous, jibbering wreck and was struggling with the enormous guilt, lies and secrets.

I think GM had to work hard to tow her in line and make sure she didn't blab and confess all. A little help from some sort of medication probably did the trick too.

All IMO of course.

by **PeterMac** 11.05.14 8:08

canada12 wrote:
Praiaaa wrote:
canada12 wrote:

“She said she had had a nightmare and saw Madeleine's body lying on a hillside and we should search for her there. She gave the impression that she thought she was dead.”
So Kate is allowed to think her daughter is dead but the lead Police Officer (according to the McCanns and their legal team) is not allowed to because that will impede the search for her.
But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.
What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.
Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?

It's only just occurred to me in light of the helicopter searches and the mention that they'd be looking at the place that Kate saw in a dream. Nobody has ever questioned whether the dream and the sobbing phonecall were genuine. If you wanted to bury a body, the ideal place would be somewhere that had already been searched and wasn't likely to be searched again. Until now.

And don't forget that Gerry directly accused Paiva or being a LIAR and a PERJURER, when he said outside court that Kate had had no such dream and had made no such phone call.

8 Kate’s Dream
Fact
Kate reported to Insp. Paiva that she had had a dream in which she had “seen” Madeleine dead
According to the court testimony of the McCanns' liaison officer, Ricardo Paiva, the
suspicions of Amaral and his team were hardened by what was seen as a turning
point in the police investigation.
It came when a weeping Kate phoned Paiva, in late July 2007, to report a
disturbing dream in which she had seen Madeleine lying on rocks overlooking a
beach at Praia da Luz. The detectives took this to be a clear signal that the
McCanns knew full well that their daughter was dead.
Soon afterwards, sniffer dogs were called in to the search, but though they were
said to have detected 'the scent of death' in the couple's holiday apartment and
Renault Scenic hire car, no forensic evidence was found to support this.
Denial by Gerry
On the steps of the court Gerry publicly denies that Kate had had any such dream
He then went on to contradict Dr Paiva's evidence that Kate had seen Madeleine on
a hillside in a dream. He said: "I'd like to make it absolutely clear that Kate has
never had a dream that Maddie has been buried somewhere, and I don't know if
something's been lost in interpretation, but that didn't happen – not with those
words, that's for sure."

by **PeterMac** 11.05.14 8:08

Of course it would have mucked up the "Fund".

by canada12 11.05.14 8:09

Andrew77R wrote:
canada12 wrote:

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?
IMO i don't think Kate is cleverer enough to think of that sort of double bluff scenario.

I got the impression in those early days she was a nervous, jibbering wreck and was struggling with the enormous guilt, lies and secrets.

I think GM had to work hard to tow her in line and make sure she didn't blab and confess all. A little help from some sort of medication probably did the trick too.

All IMO of course.

I don't think Kate's clever enough either, but who says it was her idea? Gerry (IMO) is the planner and the controller. He was conveniently away when this episode of nightmare and tears took place. "I wasn't there, guv, nothing to do with me..."

IMO.

by Guest 11.05.14 8:16

canada12 wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
canada12 wrote:

But what if the "dream" and the sobbing phonecall were all an act? The hillside gets searched, nothing is found. That means it won't be searched again. So, it would be safe to bury Madeleine's body there when no one is looking.

What if the recent photo recon has discovered that the hillside WAS disturbed - after the initial searches.

Why do we believe that Kate's sobbing plea to the police was genuine?
IMO i don't think Kate is cleverer enough to think of that sort of double bluff scenario.

I got the impression in those early days she was a nervous, jibbering wreck and was struggling with the enormous guilt, lies and secrets.

I think GM had to work hard to tow her in line and make sure she didn't blab and confess all. A little help from some sort of medication probably did the trick too.

All IMO of course.

I don't think Kate's clever enough either, but who says it was her idea? Gerry (IMO) is the planner and the controller. He was conveniently away when this episode of nightmare and tears took place. "I wasn't there, guv, nothing to do with me..."

IMO.

No doubt at all that Gerry was the controller and planner.

However IMO i think if it was an act then they would of got a bit more 'mileage' out of it. GM wouldn't come back and outright deny said dream happened.

I'm sure some cross words were exchanged between the gruesome twosome after that.

For a long long time GM wouldn't let K out of his site. Didn't trust her to keep her gob shut.

Again IMO of course.

by canada12 11.05.14 8:24

But don't forget - if this nightmare and sobbing episode happened towards the end of July, when Gerry was in Washington, then Gerry's virus episode and the trip to Huelva happened soon afterwards.

August 2, 2007

Today was a bit of a write off for me as I was laid low with a probable viral illness which meant I could not stray too far from the house! I did manage to get through some e-mails, telephone calls and some paperwork. Feeling a bit better tonight so hopefully be back to normal tomorrow.

Kate did manage to put up some of the new Madeleine posters in shops around Praia da Luz.. It is noticably busier, now that we are in August, with lots of tourists many of whom are from Portugal. The figures from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children show that one in six kids are recovered after being recognised from a poster. Such statistics do encourage us that relatively simple measures may be effective in helping us find Madeleine.
This entry was posted in Gerry's Blogs on August 2, 2007.

Kate distracts with postering while Gerry is left alone with no alibi.

Next day (August 3) they head off to Huelva...
It is exactly 3 months since Madeleine was abducted. Kate and I had an early start as we drove to Huelva, 50Km over the border from Portugal in Southern Spain. We were meant to go yesterday but had to cancel because I was ill.

Conveniently ill... and perhaps the trip to Huelva was also a distraction...?
There are two opportunities here in which Madeleine's body could have been retrieved from wherever it was resting and relocated to the hillside overlooking the beach. One involving Gerry, one involving someone else not identified.

Do we know when, specifically, the PJ searched the hillside after Kate's nightmare report? Was it soon afterwards, but before the illness episode and the trip to Huelva? Or after the Huelva trip?

All pure speculation on my part.

by nglfi 11.05.14 8:40

After sleeping on it, I've had an idea that perhaps when that Portuguese news article mentions Maddie's body 'no longer being in our country', it could suggest they believe the body was dumped at sea? If that is the case, then that article, as suggested above, leaves no doubt that the PJ are looking directly at the McCanns (if the article is correct). Foreigners who left the country - check. One of a kind case - check. Maddie was killed - check. And finally body no longer in Portugal could simply mean at sea.

by Bishop Brennan 11.05.14 8:52

nglfi wrote:After sleeping on it, I've had an idea that perhaps when that Portuguese news article mentions Maddie's body 'no longer being in our country', it could suggest they believe the body was dumped at sea? If that is the case, then that article, as suggested above, leaves no doubt that the PJ are looking directly at the McCanns (if the article is correct). Foreigners who left the country - check. One of a kind case - check. Maddie was killed - check. And finally body no longer in Portugal could simply mean at sea.

I'm sceptical. I don't think they have any idea where the body is. The only other country they could be meaning is Spain I suspect - as the border is so close. Perhaps it's just speculation by the paper, or perhaps they just want an end to all this - and don't want amateur diggers descending on PDL for evermore trying to find her body... I'm firmly of the view that her body won't ever be found - only 1 or 2 people know where it is, and so it is likely to remain a mystery.

by joyce1938 11.05.14 9:09

I don't think that there was any purpose to go dig up all round luz maybe there could be an occasion to dig one place ,but first will use all equipment to do the surveying . Cant for life of me ,see the new season starting for Luz,and to go dig up here and there at this time . If equipment is really good ,it wont need lots of digs surely ? DO you think all this arrangements were made when when the CPS ladt went over to faro some months ago ? we all tried to double guess why she went there ,wellmaybe this was part of reason ? just a few thoughts ,all is covered by others here I don't keep posting ,so much we still don't know joyce1938

by sami 11.05.14 9:36

canada12 wrote:But don't forget - if this nightmare and sobbing episode happened towards the end of July, when Gerry was in Washington, then Gerry's virus episode and the trip to Huelva happened soon afterwards.

August 2, 2007

Today was a bit of a write off for me as I was laid low with a probable viral illness which meant I could not stray too far from the house! I did manage to get through some e-mails, telephone calls and some paperwork. Feeling a bit better tonight so hopefully be back to normal tomorrow.

Kate did manage to put up some of the new Madeleine posters in shops around Praia da Luz.. It is noticably busier, now that we are in August, with lots of tourists many of whom are from Portugal. The figures from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children show that one in six kids are recovered after being recognised from a poster. Such statistics do encourage us that relatively simple measures may be effective in helping us find Madeleine.
This entry was posted in Gerry's Blogs on August 2, 2007.

Kate distracts with postering while Gerry is left alone with no alibi.

Next day (August 3) they head off to Huelva...
It is exactly 3 months since Madeleine was abducted. Kate and I had an early start as we drove to Huelva, 50Km over the border from Portugal in Southern Spain. We were meant to go yesterday but had to cancel because I was ill.

Conveniently ill... and perhaps the trip to Huelva was also a distraction...?
There are two opportunities here in which Madeleine's body could have been retrieved from wherever it was resting and relocated to the hillside overlooking the beach. One involving Gerry, one involving someone else not identified.

Do we know when, specifically, the PJ searched the hillside after Kate's nightmare report? Was it soon afterwards, but before the illness episode and the trip to Huelva? Or after the Huelva trip?

All pure speculation on my part.

The planned trip was cancelled because the police came to search the villa. They said Gerry was ill to avoid attention from the press. This is according to Kate in her book. They went ahead the next day though, despite it being a holiday with everything closed. So they were either ill advised or determined to get to Heulva around that time.

by russiandoll 11.05.14 9:42

Just read the Star and the front page reads like this :

They suspect a foreigner who has now left the country, snatched Madeleine.
They fear she was killed and her body smuggled out of the country.

It does not theorise an accidental death and it begs the question.....who would feel the need / go to the trouble of smuggling a body out of Portugal rather than leave it there permanently buried?

Or, as most stranger killers, simply leave the body without a burial?

Intriguing stuff if there is any truth to it.

Star quoting a local newspaper, so it appears that someone with knowledge is leaking info to the press, very odd after demanding no media commentary.

eta ---sami " So they were either ill advised or determined to get to Heulva around that time."

yes, they heard the dogs were coming with Grimes and they duly arrived at the end of July. A few days later, off they went to Spain. Coincidence ? I think not.

by sallypelt 11.05.14 9:52

russiandoll wrote:Just read the Star and the front page reads like this :

They suspect a foreigner who has now left the country, snatched Madeleine.
They fear she was killed and her body smuggled out of the country.

It does not theorise an accidental death and it begs the question.....who would feel the need / go to the trouble of smuggling a body out of Portugal rather than leave it there permanently buried?

Or, as most stranger killers, simply leave the body without a burial?

Intriguing stuff if there is any truth to it.

Star quoting a local newspaper, so it appears that someone with knowledge is leaking info to the press, very odd after demanding no media commentary.

eta ---sami " So they were either ill advised or determined to get to Heulva around that time."

yes, they heard the dogs were coming with Grimes and they duly arrived at the end of July. A few days later, off they went to Spain. Coincidence ? I think not.

From what I read, last night, it appears that the Star has taken information from a Portuguese newspaper and twisted it. I will try to find the piece in the Portuguese newspaper.

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