Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

by Ayniia 27.10.13 19:17

suzyjohnson wrote:
Ayniia wrote:Rewatching Crimewatch after reading these news is just a treat for my eyes
I was just thinking about that. I think SY wanted to see what the McCanns had to say about a 'new' suspect that they had actually already known about for 5 years.

After watching CW first time, I couldn't make myself watch it again, I was too enraged and I thought very nasty things about Redwood, now after watching it again today, I just can't believe how cleverly that was made, IMO just brilliant! Made with the sole purpose of letting the Mccanns talk their lies, it's amazing how I see it as a totally different thing now!
So many things happening these last days, not one giving points to the Mccanns. For once, I believe justice will be done for Madeleine, GA, TB and of course the millions that donated to the "fund ".

by petunia 27.10.13 19:17

Cosmo wrote:AOL is covering the story and Huffpost I think.... sorry new to this site but Hi to all

hi cosmo.it seems the news is spreding,the further the better i say.

by Ayniia 27.10.13 19:20

Okeydokey wrote:
StraightThinking wrote:
Okeydokey wrote:They read out lots of potentially libellous stories. It's often an in joke on the press reviews - when they add the obligatory "allegedly". There wouldn't be a press review if they had to check them out with lawyers all the time. But obviously everyone is now aware of the McCanns' reputation as most litigious innocent parents on the planet. It was simple cowardice on the part of the BBC journos.
If the story turns out to be libellous, the use of the word "allegedly" is no defence whatsoever. Nor is the fact that you were quoting someone else.
Whether or not you are likely to be sued depends upon how serious the allegation is, and whether or not the offended party has the inclination or funds to pursue it
You can't quote a single case where someone was successfully sued for reading off a newspaper on a live press review programme. End of story.

So what you call to what happened to TB by quoting the files and another information?

by petunia 27.10.13 19:20

Ayniia wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
Ayniia wrote:Rewatching Crimewatch after reading these news is just a treat for my eyes
I was just thinking about that. I think SY wanted to see what the McCanns had to say about a 'new' suspect that they had actually already known about for 5 years.
After watching CW first time, I couldn't make myself watch it again, I was too enraged and I thought very nasty things about Redwood, now after watching it again today, I just can't believe how cleverly that was made, IMO just brilliant! Made with the sole purpose of letting the Mccanns talk their lies, it's amazing how I see it as a totally different thing now!
So many things happening these last days, not one giving points to the Mccanns. For once, I believe justice will be done for Madeleine, GA, TB and of course the millions that donated to the "fund ".

i wonder where Tony is today i havn't seen him post.

by suzyjohnson 27.10.13 19:23

Woofer wrote:Can anyone work out the sequence of events of this recent scenario?

1. May 2011 - SY commence review - but the McCanns hold back some information reported by their PIs.

2. SY therefore working for past 2 years in partial ignorance.

3. How did they come to know about the e-fits being missing? Was it by interviewing the Smiths and the Smiths telling them about doing e-fits for Kennedy/Halligen/Exton?

I can`t figure out if this is when SY contacted Exton or Kennedy to get the e-fits.

4. SY do the Crimewatch programme and get Jane Tanner and bundleman off the hook and present the new e-fits.

5. Henri Exton watches Crimewatch and is astounded to see the very same e-fits he reported to the McCanns back in 2008. What can he do - he knows he is bound by threats from the McCanns not to reveal anything, so he decides to contact the Insight Team at Sunday Times.

Am I right here.

Possibly SY got the information about the Efits from talking to the Smiths, equally possible SY approached Exton for any information he had in relation to the case, at this point Exton might have told them himself.

Exton may have contacted the Sunday Times, but then they might also have contacted him, there weren't too many PI's working on the case and SY had said that the Efits were recovered from the files of the PI's. Exton probably now has the protection of SY / Sunday Times?

by susible 27.10.13 19:24

After watching CW first time, I couldn't make myself watch it again, I was too enraged and I thought very nasty things about Redwood, now after watching it again today, I just can't believe how cleverly that was made, IMO just brilliant! Made with the sole purpose of letting the Mccanns talk their lies, it's amazing how I see it as a totally different thing now!
So many things happening these last days, not one giving points to the Mccanns. For once, I believe justice will be done for Madeleine, GA, TB and of course the millions that donated to the "fund ".

Yes, it's quite brilliant isn't it! The timing is just awesome and the McCann spin machine has been out in force since the CW reconstruction, especially after the crushing blows they have been receiving in the libel trial, and they have now shown publicly that they are full of lies because they knew they had suppressed the sighting, but they bumbled on through CW oblivious, pretending it was new info, to the sh*t storm that was about to erupt in the Times....lol

by Guest 27.10.13 19:25

Ayniia wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
Ayniia wrote:Rewatching Crimewatch after reading these news is just a treat for my eyes
I was just thinking about that. I think SY wanted to see what the McCanns had to say about a 'new' suspect that they had actually already known about for 5 years.
After watching CW first time, I couldn't make myself watch it again, I was too enraged and I thought very nasty things about Redwood, now after watching it again today, I just can't believe how cleverly that was made, IMO just brilliant! Made with the sole purpose of letting the Mccanns talk their lies, it's amazing how I see it as a totally different thing now!
So many things happening these last days, not one giving points to the Mccanns. For once, I believe justice will be done for Madeleine, GA, TB and of course the millions that donated to the "fund ".

I have just watched it again too,
They really dig themselves deeper with "the Met has made huge progress puttung all these things together"
NO thanks to you Gerry!

by tasprin 27.10.13 19:26

Okeydokey wrote:
Woofer wrote:Can anyone work out the sequence of events of this recent scenario?

1. May 2011 - SY commence review - but the McCanns hold back some information reported by their PIs.

2. SY therefore working for past 2 years in partial ignorance.

3. How did they come to know about the e-fits being missing? Was it by interviewing the Smiths and the Smiths telling them about doing e-fits for Kennedy/Halligen/Exton?

4. SY do the Crimewatch programme and get Jane Tanner and bundleman off the hook and present the new e-fits.

5. Henri Exton watches Crimewatch and is astounded to see the very same e-fits he reported to the McCanns back in 2008. What can he do - he knows he is bound by threats from the McCanns not to reveal anything, so he decides to contact the Insight Team at Sunday Times.

Am I right here.
Who knows! It might be that Exton has been in contact with the Insight Team for a long time - going back to when he was forced into legal silence. They might have gone back to him after the Crimewash programme.

After Mark Hollingworth's article was published in 2009, I'd have thought quite a few in the media had some knowledge of what was going on with the fund. Exton probably told Hollingworth much more info than was ever published but the truth about the Smiths sighting remained hidden until Scotland Yard's "revelation" on Crimewatch. Henri Exton couldn't reveal it before because the McCanns lawyers had an iron grip on the media - hopefully he can talk without fear of litigation. Maybe Scotland Yard will interview him. I always wondered if SY had spoken to Kevin Halligen but The Times article explains why Clarence Mitchell and the McCanns were so keen to play down the fund money paid to Halligen.

by Woofer 27.10.13 19:30

Jambo wrote:
Woofer wrote:5. Henri Exton watches Crimewatch and is astounded to see the very same e-fits he reported to the McCanns back in 2008. What can he do - he knows he is bound by threats from the McCanns not to reveal anything, so he decides to contact the Insight Team at Sunday Times.

Am I right here.
Not sure about this last point. It doesn't necessarily say Henri Exton is the person quoted as watching CW. It just says "one of the investigators" and his surprise was that it was being "presented as a breakthrough".

Exton claimed the legal threat had prevented him from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s fresh investigation, until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.

This part is confusing me. Even before the written permission, how can a legal threat prevent him from disclosing crucial evidence to SY?

Candyfloss, thanks for the earlier welcome. :)

Ah yes, just read it again and the reason he was stunned was because Crimewatch presented it as a breakthrough, " It most certainly wasn`t a new timeline and it certainly isn`t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things ... And those e-fits you saw on Crimewtch are ours".

If he`s ex-MI5, he`s the sort of person to keep secrets I assume, plus he knew what powerful backing the McCanns supposedly had.

by iamfreecanigo 27.10.13 19:30

I feel like everyone is getting carried away. The McCanns have been in worse press situations than this, its one article a drop in the ocean and they have managed to spin their way out. While its an exciting development, i think to say the whole crimwatch program was a huge elaborate ruse to catch the mccanns lying is madness. Nothing but wishful thinking, why do people think the police do these super over elaborate tricks.

I'm not going to break out the champaigne until they are made suspects or arrested.

by Mirage 27.10.13 19:35

Monty Heck wrote:
suzyjohnson wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:'....... despite being aware of the suppression of the e-fits AR, rather than pulling the McCs in for some detailed questioning, went along with the CW programme. During which he stated that the e-fits and later abduction timing were new and and indeed revelatory, while knowing that the e-fits had been produced 5 years ago and had been in the hands of the McCs all that time. The fact that what may have been vital evidence was kept back for 5 years and why that was done do not appear to have any significance for AR. He seems to have accepted this unquestioningly and simply moved the timescale forward while ruling out the JT sighting, so feverishly promoted by the Team. Meanwhile no-one has anything to say about the loss of this cherished sighting, when the fact they have been going up a blind alley on the strength of that testimony for 6+ years with a child still missing, is of major significance. The way SY have handled this is frankly disturbing.'
I don't think so Monty Heck. I think SY have just been pulling together whatever evidence they can find, hence the Crimewatch programme, and the tour of Europe. SY want to re publicise MM's case and find new witnesses,
Exactly, they have been pulling together what evidence they can find and AR joined in the tour of Europe to publicise a supposedly new version of MM's case. The fact that the explosive new evidence was nothing of the kind was rather misleading on the whole. Information on which SY are now acting was in the McCs hands for 5 years unacted on yet the public were told this is new. SY may well want to keep the McCs onside but putting out information on national and European tv that is claimed to be new seems to serve no purpose other than to protect the McC's reputation which is probably stretching keeping them onside quite a bit. Following them around Europe with the same misinformation as part of some clever ruse or long game seems a rather ridiculous waste of effort and resources IMO, but time will tell as always. Thanks to people who posted their agreement with this view, and also to anyone who disagreed for taking time to explain why. What a dull forum it would be if all we did was agree with one another!

Monty Heck, at the moment I am tending towards your view. I am taking into account that the situation is very fluid, of course, and there may be more twists and turns yet that we can shake a broken shutter at.

However, if this is the "long game" perhaps AR is measuring everything in McYears. If so, carting the cast around Europe may not resolve the case but might give English Pantomime World Heritage status.

A thought occurred a little earlier - why, oh why, couldn't we have that brilliant detective who sorted the Philpotts out. His revelatory moment happened live before the nation's eyes at the infamous press conference. You know, the one - featuring copious face-scrunching and no-tears from the ghastly duo. Who could forget the amazed expression on his face at such hammy acting? They were charged and put away before you could say "How about a tour of Europe".

There are some really good police out there, it's worth remembering, and that guy was a hero.

by petunia 27.10.13 19:36

it will be interesting to see the paper reviews tonight to see if any other paper is running with the story.this will give us an idea which way the wind is blowing.

by susible 27.10.13 19:38

petunia wrote:it will be interesting to see the paper reviews tonight to see if any other paper is running with the story.this will give us an idea which way the wind is blowing.

I think in view of the weather forecast, the media will be full of nothing else but how the wind is blowing...or not! big grin

by DonNewbery 27.10.13 19:40

Monty Heck wrote:... SY may well want to keep the McCs onside but putting out information on national and European tv that is claimed to be new seems to serve no purpose other than to protect the McC's reputation which is probably stretching keeping them onside quite a bit. Following them around Europe with the same misinformation as part of some clever ruse or long game seems a rather ridiculous waste of effort and resources IMO, but time will tell as always. Thanks to people who posted their agreement with this view, and also to anyone who disagreed for taking time to explain why. What a dull forum it would be if all we did was agree with one another!

I don't think you've interpreted this quite correctly. This whole exercise, surely, has been designed by SY (in coordination with PJ) to put maximum pressure on the McCs, in the hopes that one of them will crack, or failing that, they'll make even more foolish and incriminating mistakes. It also puts indirect pressure on T7 etc. iikewise to spill the beans.

by notlongnow 27.10.13 19:42

I feel once any of this hits any of the red tops then you know the tide has changed.

by petunia 27.10.13 19:43

susible wrote:
petunia wrote:it will be interesting to see the paper reviews tonight to see if any other paper is running with the story.this will give us an idea which way the wind is blowing.
I think in view of the weather forecast, the media will be full of nothing else but how the wind is blowing...or not!

by Ayniia 27.10.13 19:44

iamfreecanigo wrote:I feel like everyone is getting carried away. The McCanns have been in worse press situations than this, its one article a drop in the ocean and they have managed to spin their way out. While its an exciting development, i think to say the whole crimwatch program was a huge elaborate ruse to catch the mccanns lying is madness. Nothing but wishful thinking, why do people think the police do these super over elaborate tricks.

I'm not going to break out the champaigne until they are made suspects or arrested.

Of course everyone is getting carried away over here, after years of being called Vile trolls and other nice things, the truth is coming out for everyone to read!

by garfy 27.10.13 19:45

sorry if posted elsewhere

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by Woofer 27.10.13 19:47

Thanks Tasprin for the info.

Just tried to watch Crimewatch again and I can`t bear to look at them (well, never have actually). AR knew full well they had held information back and let them do their party piece in the adjacent studio.

by pulch 27.10.13 19:48

What about when they set up the phillpots press conference? They were bugged too. I think this is such a high profile case they have to be very careful to find concrete evidence. To the general public the e fits were NEW. I just cant see him telling us that the McCann's hid the e fits at this time. Imagine the papers and the public would go mad maybe to the point of jeopardising the case. We all know they will be the most hated people the world over, people threatening their family and friends. He HAS to keep the balance or the McCann's will resort to not answering questions etc etc.
This will be a great police tactics/solving movie one day, I can feel it.

by Mirage 27.10.13 19:49

DonNewbery wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:... SY may well want to keep the McCs onside but putting out information on national and European tv that is claimed to be new seems to serve no purpose other than to protect the McC's reputation which is probably stretching keeping them onside quite a bit. Following them around Europe with the same misinformation as part of some clever ruse or long game seems a rather ridiculous waste of effort and resources IMO, but time will tell as always. Thanks to people who posted their agreement with this view, and also to anyone who disagreed for taking time to explain why. What a dull forum it would be if all we did was agree with one another!
I don't think you've interpreted this quite correctly. This whole exercise, surely, has been designed by SY (in coordination with PJ) to put maximum pressure on the McCs, in the hopes that one of them will crack, or failing that, they'll make even more foolish and incriminating mistakes. It also puts indirect pressure on T7 etc. iikewise to spill the beans.

I thought that too DonNewbery, until I saw the ST today.

I cannot see how SY can claim they turned up new information and used the original e-fits too. There may be another side to the story, but as things stand, my patience with AR is running out. I think the benchmark behaviour was from that Philpott police officer. A professional distance is all that's required.

by Okeydokey 27.10.13 19:49

notlongnow wrote:I feel once any of this hits any of the red tops then you know the tide has changed.

True, that would be very telling. I don't expect it myself any time soon. But - one can hope. At least the "travel of direction" is right now... :)

by pulch 27.10.13 19:50

Maybe the police fed the story to the paper?? Slowly slowly catchy monkey.....

by Okeydokey 27.10.13 19:52

suzyjohnson wrote:
Woofer wrote:Can anyone work out the sequence of events of this recent scenario?

1. May 2011 - SY commence review - but the McCanns hold back some information reported by their PIs.

2. SY therefore working for past 2 years in partial ignorance.

3. How did they come to know about the e-fits being missing? Was it by interviewing the Smiths and the Smiths telling them about doing e-fits for Kennedy/Halligen/Exton?

I can`t figure out if this is when SY contacted Exton or Kennedy to get the e-fits.

4. SY do the Crimewatch programme and get Jane Tanner and bundleman off the hook and present the new e-fits.

5. Henri Exton watches Crimewatch and is astounded to see the very same e-fits he reported to the McCanns back in 2008. What can he do - he knows he is bound by threats from the McCanns not to reveal anything, so he decides to contact the Insight Team at Sunday Times.

Am I right here.
Possibly SY got the information about the Efits from talking to the Smiths, equally possible SY approached Exton for any information he had in relation to the case, at this point Exton might have told them himself.

Exton may have contacted the Sunday Times, but then they might also have contacted him, there weren't too many PI's working on the case and SY had said that the Efits were recovered from the files of the PI's. Exton probably now has the protection of SY / Sunday Times?

Weren't the Smiths in the PJ files. Hardly a case for Sherlock Holmes! winkwink

by sallypelt 27.10.13 19:52

pulch wrote:Maybe the police fed the story to the paper?? Slowly slowly catchy monkey.....

My thoughts exactly, pulch. I know from experience that these things go on. Moreover, the McCann's would have had an idea, way back, which way this case was heading. Tip-offs are extremely common behind the scenes

by StraightThinking 27.10.13 19:53

notlongnow wrote:I feel once any of this hits any of the red tops then you know the tide has changed.

Well it's in the Telegraph now
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by sallypelt 27.10.13 19:54

StraightThinking wrote:
notlongnow wrote:I feel once any of this hits any of the red tops then you know the tide has changed.
Well it's in the Telegraph now
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WOW, the storm has hit with full force

by sallypelt 27.10.13 19:55

sallypelt wrote:
StraightThinking wrote:
notlongnow wrote:I feel once any of this hits any of the red tops then you know the tide has changed.
Well it's in the Telegraph now
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WOW, the storm has hit with full force

By Ben Farmer

7:35PM GMT 27 Oct 2013

The evidence, including e-fits of a man seen carrying a child the night the toddler disappeared, was included in an intelligence report produced by a firm of former spies for her parents in 2008.

But the report was sidelined for five years by Gerry and Kate McCann because it was critical of people involved and would have caused a distraction if made public, The Sunday Times reported.

The team of hand-picked former MI5 agents was hired by the McCanns in the spring of 2008, 10 months after their daughter disappeared from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.

A report they produced was “hypercritical” of the McCanns and their friends and the authors were threatened with legal action if it were ever published, the paper reported.

Its contents were kept secret until Scotland Yard detectives conducting a fresh review of the case contacted the author for a copy.

Related Articles

Madeleine McCann: Portugese police reveal 'new lines of inquiry'
24 Oct 2013

Madeleine McCann: BBC viewers give detectives a suspect’s name
15 Oct 2013

Reconstruction: night Madeleine was taken
15 Oct 2013

The e-fits of the suspect formed the centrepiece of a Crimewatch appeal earlier this month that attracted more than 1,000 calls from the public.

The Find Madeleine fund said all information privately gathered during the search for Madeleine "has been fully acted upon where necessary" and passed on to Scotland Yard.

A spokesman for Scotland Yard, said: “Where we have been able to make massive steps forward is by drawing together all the material gathered to date, and reviewing it as a whole

by Okeydokey 27.10.13 19:55

iamfreecanigo wrote:I feel like everyone is getting carried away. The McCanns have been in worse press situations than this, its one article a drop in the ocean and they have managed to spin their way out. While its an exciting development, i think to say the whole crimwatch program was a huge elaborate ruse to catch the mccanns lying is madness. Nothing but wishful thinking, why do people think the police do these super over elaborate tricks.

I'm not going to break out the champaigne until they are made suspects or arrested.

Timing is everything. This has come when everything should be going the way of Team McCann. They always said they wanted the investigation reopened. They always claimed others were frustrating the investigation.

This is unspinnable because it involves their own actions and those actions contradict everything they had said and claimed they were standing for. [And those actions are documented by their own ex PI]

by john 64 27.10.13 19:58

I'm also a lurker who feels compelled to come out of the shadows. This forum does sterling work.just noticed the Telegraph has picked up on the story! I see the Telegraph has picked up on the story!

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