Re: Why are the Paynes/Webster airbrushed out?

by Justformaddie 24.06.14 22:27

Maybe dp seen what happened during his check on km and the children, and hopefully has come clean IMO

by missbeetle 24.06.14 23:04

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(snipped from Kikoratton on Twitter)

David Payne's sister Karen is married to the athletic fellow on the right, Simon Green :

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The Great Knibworth Run, 27 September 2009

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by missbeetle 25.06.14 2:23

Err you know I made err a phone call at some stage in the evening to err Fiona’s dad back in the UK who I’ve got a lot of respect for and has given me very, a lot of very good advice because you know you certainly would never have believe that you will find yourself in a situation err like this and you know there was very able people who were there, you know. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From 192 records, there are two Dianne Websters in the Bedfordshire region.

One (aged 60-64) is at the same address (Dunstable, LU 5) as a John W Webster.

The other at Bedford, MK 4, shares the same address with a James C Webster.

”No, err you know Kate and Gerry I think it’s, they’ve had you know the twins, it’s never difficult, err sorry it’s never easy looking after twins, err my sister’s got twins and err you know and it was very difficult for them. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this mother of twins, his sister Karen - married to Simon - Green?

Heaps of twins in this tale...

by **tigger** 25.06.14 7:21

missbeetle wrote:Err you know I made err a phone call at some stage in the evening to err Fiona’s dad back in the UK who I’ve got a lot of respect for and has given me very, a lot of very good advice because you know you certainly would never have believe that you will find yourself in a situation err like this and you know there was very able people who were there, you know. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From 192 records, there are two Dianne Websters in the Bedfordshire region.

One (aged 60-64) is at the same address (Dunstable, LU 5) as a John W Webster.

The other at Bedford, MK 4, shares the same address with a James C Webster.

”No, err you know Kate and Gerry I think it’s, they’ve had you know the twins, it’s never difficult, err sorry it’s never easy looking after twins, err my sister’s got twins and err you know and it was very difficult for them. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this mother of twins, his sister Karen - married to Simon - Green?

Heaps of twins in this tale...

Thank you! Looks that my memory of Gerry phoning DP's dad was wrong as these excerpts are what I remembered except as relating to GM.

Still, why do we have to know about Fiona's dad? DW had some kind of financial references job?

Seeing the quotes above I'd hate to be diagnosed by DP,, I wouldn't know whether I had an ingrown toenail or pneumonia.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 8:53

So... a few thoughts...

I believe the lady in the Birthday Cake photograph to be Dianne Webster.

As well as anaesthetist daughter, Fiona Payne, she has ex-anaesthetist daughter Louise Oldridge (now running Wrag Wrap), and apparently another high-flying daughter who is a PhD in New Zealand.

We also have international man of urological and vascular mysteries, David Payne, born April 14th 1956, as stated by him in Rogatory Statement.

In his rogatory statement, he says he is born in 1956 :

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No David Anthony Payne born on that day in 1956.

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His mother is Diane Payne, looks like his father is/was a Tony Payne.

So I wonder am I ten years out of date, and check out D.A.P. born 14th April 1966.

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No D.A.P. born on that date in England, either.

But FreeBMD do have a David Anthony Payne born in Preston, June 1966.

Hmmm...!

by canada12 25.06.14 9:29

I have an account with ancestry.co.uk
There is a David A Payne with the following birth info:
Name: David A Payne
Mother's Maiden Surname: Turrell
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1956
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Northamptonshire, Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 380

Would that be him?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 9:45

Hey, Canada12, thanks for that.

An ancestry.co.uk account is most useful!

If he is born in 1956, that would make him 58...

Fiona Payne, nee Webster, born in August 1972, would be 41...

Bit of a gap. Does he look 58?

The photocopied PJ piece dated 4th May 2007 has him born in Preston.

What a peculiar fellow...!

by fossey 25.06.14 9:49

I always thought that DP looked a bit older than 41 at the time of M's disappearance judging by the pictures.

So he actually confirms that from his statement, he was in fact born on the 14/04/56 which would of made him 51 at the time of M's disappearance.

So 58 now.

Bloody hell this is weird.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 9:59

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I would say this is a man in his 40s, rather than in his 50s.

by canada12 25.06.14 10:12

missbeetle wrote:Hey, Canada12, thanks for that.

An ancestry.co.uk account is most useful!

If he is born in 1956, that would make him 58...

Fiona Payne, nee Webster, born in August 1972, would be 41...

Bit of a gap. Does he look 58?

The photocopied PJ piece dated 4th May 2007 has him born in Preston.

What a peculiar fellow...!

Interesting! Yes, you may be right.

Is it possible there's a transcription /translation error in the PJ report regarding birthyear? Or is it possible David Payne was being duplicitous and gave an incorrect birth year for other reasons?

Here is a David Anthony Payne born in Preston in 1966:

Name: David Anthony Payne
Mother's Maiden Surname: Wills
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1966
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 10f
Page Number: 518

And to verify his parentage, here is what is likely his parents' marriage info:

Name: Anthony L Payne
Spouse Surname: Wills
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1960
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 1587
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Name: Diane M Wills
Spouse Surname: Payne
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1960
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 1587
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Most interesting. As I mentioned above, 1956 or 1966. Deliberate mis-information, or transcription / translation error?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 11:05

Thank you for that, Canada12...

Ah, David Anthony Payne born in the quarter April/May/June 1966.

I'm having no luck on FreeBMD with Fiona Elaine Webster :

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(snipped from her rogatory interview)

If you get a chance, would you mind having a scratch about on ancestry?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 11:12

Re. Fiona Payne, nee Webster -
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Father would appear to be a James Cowan Webster, but I can't make out the place of birth.

by Doug D 25.06.14 16:33

Not sure where you're going with this but:

Bedford district.

Mothers maiden name Hebenton.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 20:39

Thank you for that, Doug D.

There's an interesting William Heberton over at Manchester University.

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 20:54

Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

by Guest 25.06.14 21:02

Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

by Guest 25.06.14 21:19

Ladyinred wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

Unless the child silently choked.

Or a stealthy abductor took the child.

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 21:36

Ladyinred wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

Yeah, I bet they were very happy with the monitor, it saved them from getting caught up in the disaster on the 3rd of May 07 and crimewatch! All IMO dance

by Guest 25.06.14 21:42

Not quite, IMO. After all, DP was the last of the group to see MBM alive on 3rd May. Remember his 30 second/30 minute visit to 5A when Kate was wrapped in a towel and the three children dressed in white?

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 22:56

Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? huh

Just guessing.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:46

Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:52

I'm becoming more and more convinced that GM was duping this gang into protecting him and wife from being charged.

Yes the TAPAS 7 probably had to lie and change their stories, particularly for the Thursday, but was it to protect themselves or their mate and fellow doctor Gm?

I dont believe that every member of the TAPAS 9 knows the full story of the disappearance of M. Only 1 or 2 of them.

by sami 26.06.14 10:54

HelenMeg wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

It is no reason to have excluded them by name though. Each party was introduced by name as they arrived at the table during the CW reconstruction. Paynes were referred to as "other friends" or some such thing. That's still odd IMO.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:57

sami wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

It is no reason to have excluded them by name though. Each party was introduced by name as they arrived at the table during the CW reconstruction. Paynes were referred to as "other friends" or some such thing. That's still odd IMO.

Yes, I hadn't realised that. It is odd.

by Justformaddie 26.06.14 10:58

Very odd, still hoping he's talked, could there be another reason for not mentioning their names?

by Guest 26.06.14 11:00

Or maybe it's the deal for his continuing silence?

by Justformaddie 26.06.14 11:04

But would that not be the deal for all of them, the no crimewatch would've been needed in the 1st place, if they were trying to silence them all IMO

by HelenMeg 27.06.14 12:22

Crimewatch is one of the methods of communication that SY have for talking to us, the UK people, and telling us what is going on with their investigation.

So for some reason SY wished to tell us that the Paynes were not involved. Why? Are they playing games?
It is very odd.

by Newintown 27.06.14 12:47

HelenMeg wrote:Crimewatch is one of the methods of communication that SY have for talking to us, the UK people, and telling us what is going on with their investigation.

So for some reason SY wished to tell us that the Paynes were not involved. Why? Are they playing games?
It is very odd.

We cannot forget the fact that this is a criminal investigation into the disappearance of a 3 year old girl who vanished into thin air.

Someone or some persons are responsible for her "disappearance", SY must have had their reasons for leaving the Paynes out of the Crimewatch programme. I doubt SY are playing games when it comes to finding the perpetrators of a crime on a 3 year old child.

As I read some time ago on the forum SY said that this was a "complicated investigation", I can't remember the exact words, but obviously there are many people who could be involved from the McCanns up to and including their dodgy PIs, PR persons, backers etc etc who have to be investigated who may have twisted and obfuscated the truth about what happened to Madeleine. The SY net must be reaching far and wide and may take many more months before they can haul the perpetrators in.

by Justformaddie 27.06.14 13:00

The Paynes deffo should have been included in the important crimewatch screening, but they're not mentioned even by name and I'm wondering why that is? IMO I can't think why unless they're helping with enquiries pray