Re: Alex Woolfall 'knows': 'The Last Photo', and other photos of Madeleine in Praia da Luz

by **PeterMac** 27.01.14 15:29

Like these
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />" />

The important thing about the Last Photo is that is was clearly NOT taken on the day Kate insists it was.
Gerry is in the T shirt he travelled in, and is sweating. Madeleine's hair is not blowing about, her hat is balancing on her head and they are all clearly in hot sun.
The only possible days are Saturday - but they arrived a long time after lunch, or the Sunday.
After that the weather was cold and windy, right until late evening on 3rd, when it cleared.
All the Tapas group agree on this, and the weather reports are very clear.
It is all in the public domain if people care to look.

And if it was not taken on 3rd, it cannot be used as proof that Madeleine was alive and well at lunchtime.

by Rasputin 27.01.14 16:08

PeterMac wrote:Like these
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />" />

The important thing about the Last Photo is that is was clearly NOT taken on the day Kate insists it was.
Gerry is in the T shirt he travelled in, and is sweating. Madeleine's hair is not blowing about, her hat is balancing on her head and they are all clearly in hot sun.
The only possible days are Saturday - but they arrived a long time after lunch, or the Sunday.
After that the weather was cold and windy, right until late evening on 3rd, when it cleared.
All the Tapas group agree on this, and the weather reports are very clear.
It is all in the public domain if people care to look.

And if it was not taken on 3rd, it cannot be used as proof that Madeleine was alive and well at lunchtime.

Has it ever been established why Gerry appears to wearing womens sunglasses ?...please correct me if I'm wrong .

by Guest 27.01.14 16:27

Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

by Guest 27.01.14 16:32

dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

by Guest 27.01.14 17:12

Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st May?

by Guest 27.01.14 17:26

I don't find the:

RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses

very convincing ...

by Rasputin 27.01.14 18:08

Does anybody know the brand and model of these glasses ? they look like ladies D&G's to me , they certainly don't look like a gents frame , if Gerry had to borrow Kates glasses for some reason then this can't be the 3rd because as Kate tells us he bought his own from sunglasses corner on the 1st.

by **PeterMac** 27.01.14 18:10

"It is raining.
Let's go to the beach, have an ice cream and buy sunglasses."
really ?

by Rasputin 27.01.14 18:17

[quote="PeterMac"]"It is raining.
Let's go to the beach, have an ice cream and buy sunglasses."
really ?[/quot

Our trip to the beach wasn’t exactly a roaring success and the kids certainly weren’t thanking us for it.
Still, we made the best of it, and the suggestion of ice-creams soon brought smiles to three little faces.
The children and I sat down on a bench and Gerry went off to fetch them. The shop was only about 25
feet away, yet when he called to me asking me to give him a hand with the five ice-creams he was
paying for, I was momentarily torn. Would the children be OK on the bench while I nipped over? I hurried
across, watching them all the time...

Once again Kate puts emphasis on numbers .

by aiyoyo 27.01.14 18:26

Rasputin wrote:
PeterMac wrote:"It is raining.
Let's go to the beach, have an ice cream and buy sunglasses."
really ?[/quot

Our trip to the beach wasn’t exactly a roaring success and the kids certainly weren’t thanking us for it.
Still, we made the best of it, and the suggestion of ice-creams soon brought smiles to three little faces.
The children and I sat down on a bench and Gerry went off to fetch them. The shop was only about 25
feet away, yet when he called to me asking me to give him a hand with the five ice-creams he was
paying for, I was momentarily torn. Would the children be OK on the bench while I nipped over? I hurried
across, watching them all the time...

Once again Kate puts emphasis on numbers .

Contrived piece of writing, written in retrospect. She's SO transparent!

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for her to be unduly worried about being 25 feet away from the children momentarily, while she and Gerry still can keep their eyes on them throughout the few seconds. Yet they thought nothing about leaving them alone in unlocked apt 50 miles away as the crow flies.
The other thing is: if she was that worried, why not just let Gerry make two trips with the Ice -Creams?

She's trying to portray herself as responsible parent but the facts just don't stacked up. She's just a drama queen.

by sami 27.01.14 18:29

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This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

by Rasputin 27.01.14 18:34

sami wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

Thank you Sami ...in this image the sunglasses look more masculine , if they are the same frame .

by Guest 27.01.14 18:43

sami wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is the only photo I can find with him wearing sun glasses. The pair Kate wears in the photo appear in others.

Thank you sami

They are not the same sunglasses he was wearing in the pool photo.
(this photo was before they started their "Grand Tour")
So either in between "looking for Madeleine" he nipped back to the "sunglasses shop" for another pair.
Or he already had another pair making the story about the 1st May a complete farce.

by bobbin 27.01.14 19:22

dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st May?

focussing on Russell, On 1st May, Kate pinpoints that Evie was ill and he stayed in apartment, food taken up.
So why, on 3rd May did he have to go to his apartment at 9.30, when Jane returned from her 9.15 check seeing Gerry, Jez and Tannerman, to rush her dinner, to go back to apartment, so Russell could go down to dinner again and have a new steak cooked because his meal had got cold when he went back to his 'supposed' sick child.
Was this the day he claims to have changed sheets, washed the child, changed clothes, washed the sheets in a matter of minutes before going back to dinner.
Why is Kate making so much of someone elses lives in HER diary for the twins later on. With just sparse words for all else, she suddenly gives almost sentences over, to Russell being with ill child, etc.

What does ? time not so good mean. It's not referring to weather but 'time'.

Was Ella in Maddie's creche group, if so, the tennis was on Tuesday 1st and not the Thursday 3rd when Jez Wilkins' wife waxed lyrical about Maddie, that she must have been on the court, as it was mini tennis time, although the girls all looked pink and pretty or whatever.

Kate fetching camera, (to photograph Maddie and the tennis balls).

Sounds like a lot of detail and effort to place Maddie on certain dates in certain places, yet according to Mrs. Fenn this would be the night when Maddie would be crying and Kate would be taking umbrage at Gerry ogling the busty quiz mistress in the Tapas.

Russell the Quiet is not at dinner that evening re sick child, yet why was he so often so absent during the meal on 3rd May, JUST BEFORE Kate let out her screams.

He left the table with MO at 9.30 on the 3rd May, to go to check his child.

This is the famous Matt Oldfield event, seeing the twins breathing, hidden behind the door and cot sides, yet not noticing Maddie's bed and whether she was in it or not, albeit the bed was in full view on opening the door, even less open than that needed to see the twins.

What were Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien actually doing at 9.30. AIMO.when Russell was laying claim to being superdad/sheet washing hero.

ETA will post in Russell thread where more appropriate.

by russiandoll 27.01.14 21:36

wrote elsewhere on the forum a while ago my idea that ROB was helping to prep his daughter for a walkabout in PdL at about 10pm.

Ella's crèche attendance that day was very strange as are a few of the entries for her on the crèche records at various times that week.

Same age as M, similar hair length at the time and similar dirty blonde colour.[ there is a photo of her being carried by her mother somewhere on the forum]

They OB's went over and above what casual pals would do. Some kind of obligation, I often wonder if there was a fatal accident to M while Tanner or ROB was present .

just a thought you know.. just an opinion.

by NickE 27.01.14 21:37

Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Another source,cropped:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

With MM:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 27.01.14 21:54

NickE wrote:
Another source:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I've no idea if the last photo is genuine or not, but the composition here is ten thousand times better than in the "original".

by worriedmum 27.01.14 23:12

Looking at them more carefully, the top two don't look the same to me. On the black and white larger version I think you can see that there has been some editing and cutting and pasting. Look at the three rocks with the shadows behind Amelie. The ones either side of the middle one have very similar shaped shadows, they llok cloned. I think this is a photo that has had Madeleine edited out, for some reason?

by ultimaThule 27.01.14 23:27

Or Sean edited out so that Madeleine could be photoshopped in?

by tiny 28.01.14 9:24

I haven't a clue about photography, but would,nt Gerry and amelia have a shadow

by sami 28.01.14 9:38

bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st

Why is apartment 5D noted for Russ remaining in it ? If it was his apartment why the need to specifically state the number ? So Russ remained in apt 5D whilst Evie was ill, as opposed to Russ having been in another apartment at another time ? A strange distinction to make, in the context of this being her diary.

by Tangled Web 28.01.14 10:32

sami wrote:
bobbin wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
Portia wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Are they the new ones he bought at "sunglasses corner?"

Could be

So where are his old ones?

KM made a big deal about them stopping to buy sunglasses for GM on their way back from the beach on 1st May in her book. Apparently he didn't have any.
She also wrote about it in her diary:

"Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)
Breakfast apartment
Kids club - mini-tennis ↓
09.15-10.15 K ↓
G 10.15-11.15 ↓
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch → apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30 → 15:00 ish
Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons - ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up"

Why did she need to make sure this was dated? Was it to prove the pool photo came after the 1st

Why is apartment 5D noted for Russ remaining in it ? If it was his apartment why the need to specifically state the number ? So Russ remained in apt 5D whilst Evie was ill, as opposed to Russ having been in another apartment at another time ? A strange distinction to make, in the context of this being her diary.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised to find that the McCann's weren't even staying in 5A either. IIRC GA had his own suspicions about this too as he commented on lack of milk, food, kids toys etc. in the apartment. Also, the lack of DNA in there. I have three kids and an apartment resembles a bomb site after an hour. IMO 5A was used for 'staging' purposes.

by Guest 28.01.14 10:44

If Madeleine had "gone missing" on another day (1st May) it seems probable that the MCs would have camped out in another appartment while 5a was being cleaned and staged. And Maddie was on her own in there, until after the abduction when the twins were moved back in. All my own opinion.

by bobbin 28.01.14 10:58

NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Another source,cropped:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

With MM:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

by Mirage 28.01.14 11:09

I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.

by bobbin 28.01.14 11:15

Mirage wrote:I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.

I am also still suspect of the photo and its timing and composition.
Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

by Mirage 28.01.14 11:30

bobbin wrote:
Mirage wrote:I found this comment on a Mumsnet board discussing the best times to visit Algarve for the weather:

"We also went end of May 27th 2007, and it was around 25 c most days with no rain or much cloud. Seemed to be a big difference between beginning and end of May."
----------------------
I wondered whether this photo of GM and A was taken post 3 May. The weather fits. The bougainvillea is in full bloom. GM is sweating in heat. They were still at the complex. Maybe just prior to GM's trip home and the belated release of the last photo.
I am also still suspect of the photo and its timing and composition.
Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

It never rings right on any level. KM described it "as a fun time, a particularly fun time" on CW, as if she were casting around for a way of elaborating and then just repeating a rather lame description. It was their last photo for heaven's sake. I read an article a couple of days ago with April Jones' parents talking in loving and warm detail about their daughter and the contrast couldn't be greater.

On CW they showed KM sitting there too, which is a different presentation to a public, who are used to seeing the above scene.

I have been to Algarve in both April and May. The weather described by KM and JT by their repeated testimonies brings back memories of a chilly wind. Not relax-by-the-pool weather by any means. I have also seen this transition in May from the chilly windy days to the suddenly hot sunny weather described in my previous post. It is the difference between day and night.

by Doug D 28.01.14 14:38

I believe I am right in saying that the ‘playground’ photo does appear in the black & white obscured photos from the PJ files, whereas the ‘last’ photo does not and I am sure that both police forces are by now fully aware of when, where & how this photo originated.

Even for a ‘wet behind the ears new recruit’ (I’m not saying there was one), it can’t be difficult to look at all of the photos taken by the other guests (with hopefully undoctored date & time lines) and verify whether it was feasible that it was taken when reported, which is something we can’t do unfortunately from the photos on file.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - oa8v3p549

However, just looking through the b& w obscured photos I noticed nos. 42 & 77, which is a family (McC’s?) sitting on the front edge of the little pool and there doesn’t appear to be any water in it! Was it filled that week? All the chairs are evenly spaced & there is nobody on any of them, so whatever day this was, it obviously wasn’t a scorcher.

eta. Forget about no water. They are sitting on the front kerb & the black line is the front edge of the pool, not the bottom.

by rustyjames 29.01.14 13:09

NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

bobbin wrote:Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

bobbin wrote:Re Shadows.
Why does Amelie's hat, with its rather wide brim cast a shadow down to half way up her chest,
Yet Gerry's chin and nose, albeit big and protruding, casts a shadow way down his chest, beyond the equivalent reach of Amelie's shadow.
Gerry's nose and chin are not as big as Amelie's hat brim.
IMO the angle of sun/shadow on Gerry's T shirt is NOT THE SAME ANGLE as Amelie's shadow.

The first two pictures just appear to be different attempts at cropping out Madeleine from the photo to show what can be done. Neither are perfect. To fill the gap left something has to be created, the most easy being duplicating something from the original. In both cases the section where the weed was has been used and if you look carefully you can see the remains of it copied but made to look more like the wall.

As for the shadows I spent a lot of time on that in the 3arguidos days. I don't think I ever published my version of the picture, but to me the shadows are probably consistent. In the picture the sunbeds and the shadow on Gerry's shirt of the left side of the frame give the direction of the light. Parallel lines drawn relative to those seem consistent with the shadows of other points in the picture such as Madeleine's hair.

I'm sure there was discussion in the past on the angle of the sun and whether anything could be deduced from that regarding the time of day / date.

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by Guest 29.01.14 13:25

bobbin wrote:
NickE wrote:Check out the wall next to GM's elbow.
What do you think?

From the video:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Another source,cropped:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

With MM:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Apart from considerable inconsistencies in the walls /stones, in both pictures, the green plant at base of wall falls to the right of the tree trunk in the coloured photo, and it falls in the middle of the trunk in the black and white photo.
You may need to look back at NickE's post (around 10.37, page 41) to see the original black and white. Copying it here loses the green plant at middle position of tree trunk.

Bobbin, you're right. The wall behind GMs left elbow is different on both pictures. The black and white one has a round flagstone first while the colored one has only half a flagstone next to the elbow. ground level also differs.
Another thing which struck me, that GM's upper thighs don't bend around the edge of the pool. It almost looks as if he is floating over this edge. Could it be that GM has been shopped in, instead of MM? Just wondering.

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