The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Discrepancy Questions

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Discrepancy Questions

Post by HiDeHo on 15.10.10 14:51

I have just created this list, thought you may like to peruse...

Discrepancy Questions..

1 Why did the Paynes and Matthew Oldfield claim to have passed each other in very different places on the way to the tapas and Dianne Webster claimed to have not seen him until her Rogatory when she remembered because Dave and Fiona had reminded her.

2 Why did Rachael claim the last time she saw Madeleine was at mini tennis on Thursday. Madeleine's group played on Tuesday. Is Tuesday the last time she saw her?

3 Why did Rachael describe the mini tennis as played on Court 1, when the records show it was Court 2. (the police seemed to find it important by questioning her)

4 Why did Catriona claim that Gerry wasn't at high tea on May 3rd and that she thought he was at tennis, when both Kate and Gerry claim he was there.

5 Why did Gerry claim to have entered the front door and opened the patio doors for Kate who was carrying Madeleine back from high tea on May 3rd. Kate says they all went in through the front doors.

6 Why did they give different accounts of Madeleine asking about why they didn't come to her. (She asked her father, she asked Kate, it was the twins crying, it was her crying etc)

7 Why did Gerry claim that he picked Madeleine up from the creche on Thursday lunch (he remembered taking the short cut) when Kate and Fiona claim they walked together. Kate says she went to the apartment first, Fiona said they left from the pool area.

8 Why did the police compile the Diagram of Events according to Catriona telling them that she only went to the beach twice, on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon, not mentioning the mini sail.

9 Why did they not release Thursday diagram or twins creche record for Thursday morning?

10 Why, after the family's trip to the beach Tuesday lunchtime (for 5 ice creams) did they drop Madleine off at the creche in time for her to go on another trip (to the beach?) for ice cream trip

11 Why did Catriona claim they went to the beach 15.30 to 16.30 on Tuesday and Wednesday and did not mention the ice cream trip, 2.30pm-3.30pm Tuesday according to the Activity sheet.

12 Why did Kate receive a 'flurry' of phone calls (between 10.16pm and 10.27pm) in the 15 minutes prior to Mrs Fenn hearing the crying Was she at the tapas as she claims they did not arrive back until 11.00pm?

13 Why did Kate make (unusual) very early morning calls to her friend (Amanda, her husband is a pathologist) on Wednesday morning?

14 Why did Najoua the quiz mistress claim that no-one (including Gerry) left the table during the time she was there (9.00pm-9.50pm?) and she does not recall seeing Kate or David Payne at the table. Just an empty place setting.

15 Why did Catriona claim to have seem Jane and David at the beach when she was at the mini sail. Why would she have known David?

16 Where are the pictures of Ella taken at the mini sail and why (with only a few children) was Madeleine not in the picture.

17 Did Catriona take the children to the mini sail alone? Why is there no statement from the other nannies to say they went?

18 Why did the police not interview Alice Stanley and Chris Unsworth, the mini sail instructors?

19 Why is there not one credible sighting of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime when she was seen by the cleaner's daughter leaving the apartment for lunch at the Paynes?

20 Why did Kate claim the shutters were broken on Sunday and the maintenance fixed them on Monday when records shows it was Tuesday. Why did they need to show her how to use the washing machine?

21 Why did the cleaner claim there was a cot in the parents bedroom on Wednesday morning and both Gerry and Kate denied it was there?

22 Why did Madeleine's bed not show signs of being used, when it was made up by the cleaner on Wednesday morning and should have been slept in Wednesday night as well as Thursday evening? (the other bed was messy)

23 Why did the pictures from the apartment show a (relatively) normal amount of clothes left around when the cleaners daughter said that her mother had mentioned to her about the mess of their apartment (indicating something abnormal).

24 Why did Matthew Oldfield claim to have been sick because of what he had eaten on the plane, and yet suggested that Rachael's sickness on Wednesday may have been the same as his.

25 Why is there very little information regarding the week from David Payne's statements?

26 Why did the police question Fiona about the time after the Paraiso vist and then push her to admit that she didn't know what David was doing between 6.00pm and 7.00pm?

27 Why did David claim to have arrived back at the apartment approx 8.00pm when Fiona claims he was there at 7.10 (while he was 'supposedly' playing tennis at the Mens Social')

28 Why did Kate claim that David didn't enter the apartment when David claims to have entered and described the children at length?

29 Why did Rachael claim that Ella may have been given a bath at their apartment on Thursday evening?

30 Why was there a lot of 'avoidance of specifics' and 'days rolled over' in the statements?

There is more, but thats all for now...

Food for thought? (especially considering most of it is earlier than 5.30pm May 3rd)

I can provide links to the details of each discrepancy if required.
avatar
HiDeHo
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 2512
Reputation : 686
Join date : 2010-05-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 15.10.10 15:17

Excellent work HiDeHo youaretheman sorry they didn't have one for a woman blushing1


Absolutely brilliant observations. bravo
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by kangdang on 15.10.10 15:47

Excellent work Hideho.

One question regarding...

13 Why did Kate make (unusual) very early morning calls to her friend (Amanda, her husband is a pathologist) on Wednesday morning?

Was it Amanda that KM tried to contact, several times,Tuesday evening around 22:15?

____________________
Indeed, I swallow a textbook everyday….a fact of which I am proud smug By far preferable and productive than wasting precious hours concocting and launching vitriolic attacks against others in the hope of gaining a few claps on a board frequented by lesser life form.
avatar
kangdang

Posts : 1680
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2010-01-29
Age : 39
Location : Corona Mountain

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 15.10.10 15:50

This to me is the most interesting question.

[quote HiDeHo]

19 Why is there not one credible sighting of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime when she was seen by the cleaner's daughter leaving the apartment for lunch at the Paynes?

When you say credible sighting HiDeHo, what do you mean? Other than the tapas 7 and K & G, and Catriona Baker, is that what you refer to? Do we have any other sightings? I know Bridgette O'Donell said she couldn't be certain as all the little girls looked the same dressed in pink. That in itself is a strange thing to say. I can't imagine for a minute all the girls were blond and dressed in pink??

Questions 12 and 13 re the phone calls also interesting thinking

Here is the quote
Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there, but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann


So were the McCanns there watching proudly she would know them instantly, as they had chatted the previous evening, but she makes no mention. So that makes one think was Madeleine there. She does not say so, she thinks she must have been there.
Exactly how many girls would have there been on these courts, surely only a very few. If the parents took photos, surely at least one of them would have Madeleine somewhere in a photo?

The next bit of the article is also interesting following on from the earlier quote

Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night

I have highlited the bit in bold, do KM & GM's statments match this? I will have a look later. Do the tapas friends say anything about this.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by ufercoffy on 15.10.10 16:02

I hadn't seen that article in the Guardian before. I wonder why it was titled "My months with Madeleine" when they were only there for a week.
avatar
ufercoffy

Posts : 1641
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-01-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Rainbow on 15.10.10 16:04

Q19........Why is that not a credible sighting??
avatar
Rainbow

Posts : 472
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-13
Location : The Picket Fence

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Judge Mental on 15.10.10 16:12

Splendid work and deductions there HiDeHo. clapping1

One is most grateful to see these items listed. We often have members of the police visiting the site, and one is certain that there are some areas you have pointed out that will be noted with enthusiasm. Likewise we are aware of certain lawyers passing though too, so do remember to keep your powder dry and a lid on some things so as not to give tham an advantage.

One still recalls the hilarious stories of used nappies, rotting meat, and Madeleine discussing a crying episode with her parents. So please do not give out too many warnings for them to skuttle around looking for excuses for certain episodes and events.



avatar
Judge Mental

Posts : 2764
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-17
Age : 80
Location : Chambers

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Cherry on 15.10.10 20:07

Fantastic work HideHo - these are the questions which the Police should have been asking.
avatar
Cherry

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 57
Join date : 2009-12-01
Location : Emirates Stadium

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Judge Mental on 15.10.10 20:40

@Rainbow wrote:Q19........Why is that not a credible sighting??

19 Why is there not one credible sighting of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime when she was seen by the cleaner's daughter leaving the apartment for lunch at the Paynes?

@ Rainbow

What do you mean?
avatar
Judge Mental

Posts : 2764
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-17
Age : 80
Location : Chambers

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Rainbow on 15.10.10 20:59

Sorry my mistake I misread it. blushing1
avatar
Rainbow

Posts : 472
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-13
Location : The Picket Fence

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by The Slave on 15.10.10 22:42

Why did their friends and supporters not smell a rat when they fled like thieves in the night ( literally IMHO) and have refused to go back and cooperate with the P.J. for the reconstruction?
"They are not running away,” said one. “It’s a change of location. They are very happy to help the police and plan to come back regularly.



avatar
The Slave

Posts : 127
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-10-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Judge Mental on 16.10.10 2:28

"They are not running away,” said one. “It’s a change of location. They are very happy to help the police and plan to come back regularly.''

One has to wonder just how long will it be before their friends are saying exactly the same words when they emigrate to Canada or elsewhere.

avatar
Judge Mental

Posts : 2764
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2010-03-17
Age : 80
Location : Chambers

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by HiDeHo on 16.10.10 14:24

kangdang

You mean the flurry of calls just before Mrs Fenn heard the crying?

I am not sure, I try to add phone calls to my timelines but I am not overly familiar with the phone calls...Maybe there's an 'expert' in that area that can help? smilie

candyfloss

19 Why is there not one credible sighting of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime when she was seen by the cleaner's daughter leaving the apartment for lunch at the Paynes?

When you say credible sighting HiDeHo, what do you mean? Other than the tapas 7 and K & G, and Catriona Baker, is that what you refer to? Do we have any other sightings? I know Bridgette O'Donell said she couldn't be certain as all the little girls looked the same dressed in pink. That in itself is a strange thing to say. I can't imagine for a minute all the girls were blond and dressed in pink??

Hi candyfloss.

I agree that this is a big question.

As can be seen above, there are many discrepancies throughout the week (excluding 'memory' etc) that I started to realise something could have happened to Madeleine earlier in the week.

The mantra to prevent anyone suggesting it could have happened earlier is 'What about all the witnesses that saw her'...'Catriona was with her all day and would not lie about that.' and Goncalo said 'she was in the creche and she died in the apartment that night.

Goncalo, in his many interviews has made it clear that it is not his opinion and that is that of the investigation and the data they have available (witness statement whether correct or not?). He states it is important to remember that.

Once realising that, I decided to check all the witness statements for myself, to see whether they stood up to scrutiny.

Every one of them (so far that I have found) shows there is a possibility/probability they were mistaken or were non specific.

I posted each individual scrutiny in MCF starting on page 12.

I can repost them here if required.

The main thing I found is that they were (in some cases) obviously referring to another child. The cook claims she saw Madeleine every day as she was in the creche next to the tapas. Madeleine's creche was 10 minutes away but DP's daughter attended the creche next to the tapas.

Kirsty Maryann claims she watched Madeleine when substituting for the nanny. Emma was the nanny and she looked after the other group.(with BOD's child)

Though a few do SEEM credible, as with the tennis instructor Georgina, she only refers to Madeleine being in the group and may very well have accessed the records to obtain that information as she does not specificlally mention Madeleine as an individual.

Whether their statements are correct or not, there is a window of 'credibility' that does not allow for them (imo) to be used as PROOF Madeleine was alive.

This window allows for the possibility of an earlier death.

The cleaners daughter is the only credible statement and that was on Sunday lunchtime..

Is that really the last time someone saw her?
avatar
HiDeHo
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 2512
Reputation : 686
Join date : 2010-05-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by HiDeHo on 16.10.10 14:25

@Judge Mental wrote:"They are not running away,” said one. “It’s a change of location. They are very happy to help the police and plan to come back regularly.''

One has to wonder just how long will it be before their friends are saying exactly the same words when they emigrate to Canada or elsewhere.



Canada? what < checks neighbours >
avatar
HiDeHo
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 2512
Reputation : 686
Join date : 2010-05-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by aiyoyo on 16.10.10 15:15

hi hideho

Good to see you here.

Hey good observations.
No wonder the police are confused, so many inconsistences and discrepancies and the T9 did nothing to help police clarify them, and yet the mccanns they want her found, and listen to this 'found alive'! Beggars belief.
avatar
aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 319
Join date : 2009-11-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Daoud on 22.10.10 13:40

One major discrepancy is the state of the McC's childrens' bedroom on 3/05/07 - on the one hand, there were two beds, with bedding and without any occupants and on the other there were two cots, without bedding and with occupants. Possibly to divert attention from the fact the twins were sleeping in cots without blankets/covers/sheets GMcC mentioned in one of his early PJ interviews (IIRC) that Madeleine slept on top of the covers because of the heat that night, while other members of the group remarked that it was a chilly night and JT in particular mentioned wearing a sweater or pullover.

On this site http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/5/3/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA you can check weather and temperature for just about any country and date, unfortunately PdL doesn't get a mention, but the records for nearby Lagos show that the day time temperature reached a high of 20 C, and between 20.00 when the children were put to bed and 22.00 when Madeleine was found to be missing the temperature fell from 18 C to 16 C which doesn't strike me as being either warm enough to sleep without bed clothes, or chilly enough to need sweaters, but it's been a long while since I visited a warm country so I'll leave it up to others to decide how pertinent these temperatures are - always bearing in mind of course that it's possible that PdL and Lagos, although close (slightly less than 5.5 km as the crow flies) and both on the coast, have very different weather.
avatar
Daoud

Posts : 147
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-03

Back to top Go down

Where are all those holiday photos?

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.10.10 14:49

Leaving aside for one moment all the other matters on this thread (long may it continue and very good OP, HiDeHo), and ALSO leaving aside for one moment all the issues connected to 'the last photo', here's a question:

Madeleine according to the McCanns and their friends was alive and having the time of her life on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and - 'I'm having the best day ever' Thursday.

Apart from that last photo and the 'tennis photo' (which has also been much discussed), where are there any other pics from the McCanns or the rest of the 'Tapas' group of Madeleine and her siblings enjoying themselves on holiday?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TEMPERATURES

Referring to the discussion on temperatures...

As an amateur meteorologist in my spare time, a day which reaches 20C (68F) and then in the evening dips to 16C (61F) would probably dip to around 11C (52F) or 12C (54F) by dawn. As such, it would be about the same temperature as an average British daily temperature in July or August.

Most British living room temperatures are maintained at around 20C (68F) to 21C (70F).
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14602
Reputation : 2764
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 22.10.10 15:58

Very strange we have hardly any photo's of Madeleine on that holiday. I first thought ah well the children were in the creche every am and pm of the holiday, so there would hardly be much time to take any. Then I remembered the family day out in Sagres, and why were there no photo's from that trip? Isn't that what you would do, it's a lovely little place, so I can't imagine why we have no pictures!!

But then I thought, hang on Madeleine was signed into the Creche on April 30th am and pm, but she is signed out 15 mins after she is signed in pm. Even if leaving the creche at 3.30 pm, by the time they got the stuff together, and headed off it must have been nearly 16.00 hrs pm. Hardly any time to travel the 16 or so miles there, and enjoy the day, which was nearly over. Then of course there was the half hour or more journey back, which if the children were put to bed at 7.30 every night hardly left any time at all to spend there.

Why would Madeleine suddenly be signed out after 15 mins that day?? If you were planning a trip like this you would surely have made your mind up by the morning, and not have signed her in at all that day, or at least not in the afternoon??

So how could she have been in Sagres, and at the creche at the same time??

GM never mentions this trip to Sagres as far as I can see. From his interview May 7th [snipped]

----- In the following days they always took breakfast at home, shopping the day before, generally maintaining the daily routine described above. When the children were at creche they had tennis classes, KATE at 09h15, he an hour later, from Monday to Thursday.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm


Here's thelink to the Sagres trip
http://minnea.blogspot.com/2008/07/1st-key-sighting.html

And here's link for creche records April 30th same day as the Sagres trip
/processopdf01page108-CrecheRecords3.jpg]http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page108-CrecheRecords3.jpg


Does anyone know of any of the Tapas 9 mentioning this trip??
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Daoud on 22.10.10 16:12

Tony,
Yes, the temperature had dropped to 14 C by 4.30 and then 13 C at 5.00 where it remained until 7.00.
But my post was not really about the temperature per se, but about the theme of this thread - my point was that it seems that the twins (and maybe Madeleine) were not sleeping in 5a that night, and whoever put them there before the GNR arrived forgot to bring the bed linen with them, making it necessary for GMcC to answer a question that hadn't been asked about Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers to make the twins sleeping arrangements seems less abnormal - imho of course.

As to the photos, the one used initially for the flyers was chosen from those on the McC's camera for the best likeness, we are told - hardly a task at all if there were in fact only the five of her that the McC's have released, unless KMcC never deletes her photos (unlike her mobile records) - given the tiny number of PdL photos it's entirely possible that if this was typical of her photographic practice then every photo she'd ever taken of Madeleine could still be on the memory card. Which in turn was very convenient when it came to chosing a photo that was almost two years out of date. As for the other T9 there are only the awful (and not very numerous) black and white photos released in the files and viewable on the McCannfiles - but they are of such poor quality that they're almost useless. There has never been any video released which is equally strange...

Candyfloss,
You're spot on about the absence of any quantity of photos - a paltry five which is less than one for each day of her visit; the DNA evidence is even thinner, and in fact there is very little hard evidence to place her in PdL at all, and if we didn't have the mysteriously leaked YouTube clip showing her on the bus and then climbing the aircraft stairs there'd be preciously little to suggest she even travelled there (assuming that's what this shows) - all very curious.
avatar
Daoud

Posts : 147
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 22.10.10 16:26

Another discrepency

Tuesday 1st May

[snipped from GM statement]

----- Pertaining to the routine, on Tuesday there was a slight change given that after lunch, at 13h30, he and KATE decided to take the three children to Paris da Luz, having gone on foot, taking only the twins in baby carriages. They all left by the main door due to the carriages, went around to the right, down the street of the supermarket and went to the beach along a road directly ahead.
----- They were at the beach for about 20 minutes, the deponent and MADELEINE having paddled in the water. During this time the weather changed with a cloudy sky and cold, they went to an esplanade of a cafe next to the beach, on the left, where they bought five ice-creams and two drinks. Asked, he said that at that place there was an individual playing Latin music on a guitar to whom he intended to give some coins, but having none at the time, he didn't. That the individual had a neglected and careless appearance, unshaven and somewhat shabby [raggedy]. He was Caucasian, 175cm tall, thin, 70 to 75kg in weight, dark, short hair, almost shaven-headed with grey sides, and not wearing glasses. Wearing a light brown-coloured 'kispo'
[coat?],
with a hood at the back, and dark cotton trousers, not noticing the footwear. He said that he never behaved strangely, nor approached or looked at the children in an ostensible [deliberate/menacing] manner. On returning they left the children at their creches, as usual, the parents having gone to play tennis or went jogging.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Creche records for that day Madeleine signed in at 2.30. How did they all manage to walk down to the beach, spend 20 or so minutes there, and go to the cafe and have ice creams, and walk back in ONE hour! Again not signed out on that day.

/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg]http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg


As for having to book the tapas restaurant because they didn't have buggies and couldn't go far, as they have said in interviews - I have highlighted the bi t in first quote.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Daoud on 22.10.10 16:29

Candyfloss,
Are you sure about this trip to Sagres? I thought they only went after May 3rd, for example:

Gerry's blog entry for 09 June 2007:

Kate and I had a slightly busier day on the media front than expected. We did a short press interview for the Irish Sunday papers, mainly to thank the Irish for their fantastic level of support. We followed that with one for the British Sundays which is likely to be the last one we do for a while. We talked about our pain of not having having Madeleine for such a long time and for our need to grieve, which occurs mainly in private. We also talked about how after Morocco we will have to spend some time reflecting both emotionally, and also how best the campaign can be taken forward. What we want to ensure is that the campaign has a psoitive effect on finding Madeleine.

After this we headed down to Sagres which is the very most southwestern tip of Portugal. There is a very nice beach and we had lunch with the family.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id185.html

There may well have been an earlier trip, but if so how did they get there?
avatar
Daoud

Posts : 147
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 22.10.10 16:31

Another discrepency

Tuesday 1st May

[snipped from GM statement]

----- Pertaining to the routine, on Tuesday there was a slight change given that after lunch, at 13h30, he and KATE decided to take the three children to Paris da Luz, having gone on foot, taking only the twins in baby carriages. They all left by the main door due to the carriages, went around to the right, down the street of the supermarket and went to the beach along a road directly ahead.
----- They were at the beach for about 20 minutes, the deponent and MADELEINE having paddled in the water. During this time the weather changed with a cloudy sky and cold, they went to an esplanade of a cafe next to the beach, on the left, where they bought five ice-creams and two drinks. Asked, he said that at that place there was an individual playing Latin music on a guitar to whom he intended to give some coins, but having none at the time, he didn't. That the individual had a neglected and careless appearance, unshaven and somewhat shabby [raggedy]. He was Caucasian, 175cm tall, thin, 70 to 75kg in weight, dark, short hair, almost shaven-headed with grey sides, and not wearing glasses. Wearing a light brown-coloured 'kispo'
[coat?],
with a hood at the back, and dark cotton trousers, not noticing the footwear. He said that he never behaved strangely, nor approached or looked at the children in an ostensible [deliberate/menacing] manner. On returning they left the children at their creches, as usual, the parents having gone to play tennis or went jogging.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Creche records for that day Madeleine signed in at 2.30. How did they all manage to walk down to the beach, spend 20 or so minutes there, and go to the cafe and have ice creams, and walk back in ONE hour! Again not signed out on that day.

/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg]http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg


As for having to book the tapas restaurant because they didn't have buggies and couldn't go far, as they have said in interviews - I have highlighted the bi t in first quote.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Guest on 22.10.10 16:37

@Daoud wrote:Candyfloss,
Are you sure about this trip to Sagres? I thought they only went after May 3rd, for example:

Gerry's blog entry for 09 June 2007:

Kate and I had a slightly busier day on the media front than expected. We did a short press interview for the Irish Sunday papers, mainly to thank the Irish for their fantastic level of support. We followed that with one for the British Sundays which is likely to be the last one we do for a while. We talked about our pain of not having having Madeleine for such a long time and for our need to grieve, which occurs mainly in private. We also talked about how after Morocco we will have to spend some time reflecting both emotionally, and also how best the campaign can be taken forward. What we want to ensure is that the campaign has a psoitive effect on finding Madeleine.

After this we headed down to Sagres which is the very most southwestern tip of Portugal. There is a very nice beach and we had lunch with the family.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id185.html

There may well have been an earlier trip, but if so how did they get there?

Daoud it's in quite a few papers I did post the links in my previous post here in full

Did Madeleine's abductor target her after family's visit to remote village?

By SAM GREENHILL and NEIL SEARS
Last updated at 23:00 11 May 2007

Madeleine McCann and her family visited the same remote village where a suspected paedophile was chased away for photographing young girls, it has emerged.

It may have been the moment her abductor first laid eyes on the three-year-old, who was snatched from her bed three days later.

Madeleine McCann and her family visited the same remote village where a suspected paedophile was chased away for photographing young girls

The McCanns' day trip to pretty Sagres, 16 miles along the coast from Praia da Luz, coincided with reports of a balding man and a blonde woman taking sneaky pictures of youngsters.

The sinister couple have become prime suspects in the hunt for missing Madeleine.

A holidaymaker grew suspicious of them after the man began secretly snapping youngsters on the beach. When challenged, he fled in a car with the woman.

Officers have now officially ended the ground search for missing Madeleine and are concentrating on evidence from witnesses.

The McCanns are believed to have visited Sagres -which is on the country's southwest tip and effectively the "Land's End" of mainland Europe -on Monday, April 30.

A shopkeeper in the town said she remembered them well. She said: "On the road into the town, Kate was holding Madeleine's hand. On the other side of the road was Gerry with a baby buggy. "I remember thinking it odd to see him with a baby buggy because I thought the little girl was too old to need one." She said it was the same day as the stranger taking photographs, although other witnesses said that happened two days later.

Either way, it seems possible that Madeleine's abductor was watching the beach at Sagres for some time.

Holidaymaker Nuno Lourenco, who is from Sagres but now lives in Germany, was sitting at a cafe with his German wife and their two children when he noticed a man taking pictures of his four-year-old blonde daughter and other children. He became so concerned at his behaviour that he took his own picture of the man - who was balding with long hair at the back - on his mobile phone.

Questions: Who were these balding man (with long hair at the back) and a blonde woman taking sneaky pictures of youngsters?
Posted by Minnea at 3:13 PM
Labels: Sightings
http://minnea.blogspot.com/2008/07/1st-key-sighting.html


And from Telegraph


By Richard Edwards and Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz
Published: 12:01AM BST 12 May 2007


Police were last night investigating whether Madeleine McCann was watched by her abductors three days before she was snatched.

Detectives have discovered that the McCann family went to the town of Sagres, on the southern tip of the Algarve, on April 30.



A witness has told police that on the same day he saw a suspicious man following families and photographing children, including his daughter, a blonde girl "strikingly similar" to Madeleine.
As the footballer David Beckham last night added to the appeals for help to find Madeleine, missing for eight days, the police investigation intensified.
More than a week into their ordeal, Gerry and Kate McCann are today painfully celebrating Madeleine's fourth birthday in her absence. A church service is planned and locals will tie yellow ribbons to trees as a symbol of hope to bring Madeleine back.
Detectives are working on the theory that the abductors may have seen Madeleine in Sagres and tracked her back to the family apartment in Praia da Luz, 18 miles away.
A witness, Nuno Lorenco, said he saw a man following his family down the beach and taking "discreet" photographs. He said he challenged the man, who fled with a blonde woman in a Renault Clio.
Police have asked the McCanns for all the photographs from the trip to Sagres, and the rest of their holiday, looking for suspects in the background.
Among other leads being followed are reports that a blonde woman was seen acting suspiciously near Madeleine's apartment hours before she disappeared. Mr and Mrs McCann have been reviewing their evidence with police in the past 48 hours.
Having spent the week issuing their own appeals, it is the first time police have informed them of their progress. Mr McCann spent 10 hours at the police station in Portimao, leaving at 3am yesterday.
In a statement on behalf of the family, he said yesterday: "We have now seen at first hand how hard the police are working in the search for Madeleine and their strong desire to find her.
"We are doing absolutely everything to assist the police with their investigation and we will leave no stone unturned in the search for our daughter, Madeleine."
In the past two days police have been reviewing statements and checking leads.
They are following more than 350 "suspicious sightings". These include three suspects in a car with British number plates, captured on CCTV at a nearby petrol station on the night Madeleine disappeared.
One witness said he saw them with a girl matching her description.
Police have now discovered that two of them had earlier been staying at an apartment in Burgau, the neighbouring resort to Praia da Luz.
They are described as being in their 40s. The woman had long blonde hair while the man was said to be tanned.
Both were claimed to have been "discreetly" wandering around in the area and are believed to have spoken English in a foreign accent.
David Beckham, the Real Madrid footballer, made a television appeal yesterday asking for information.
He held up a missing person poster of Madeleine as he delivered the appeal. He said: "We need to do everything possible to help police."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551338/Abductors-could-have-spied-on-girl-for-days.html
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Four comments in reply to Daoud

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.10.10 16:47

@Daoud wrote:Tony,
Yes, the temperature had dropped to 14 C by 4.30...but my post was not really about the temperature per se, but that it seems that the twins (and maybe Madeleine) were not sleeping in 5a that night

REPLY: I wonder if they were sleeping there on any of the nights?

...and whoever put them there before the GNR arrived forgot to bring the bed linen with them, making it necessary for GMcC to answer a question that hadn't been asked about Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers to make the twins sleeping arrangements seems less abnormal - imho of course.

REPLY: Yes, interesting. Of course, Dr Gerald McCann told David James Smith of 'The Times' that he saw Madeleine curled up asleep 'in the foetal posiiton'...

As to the photos, the one used initially for the flyers was chosen from those on the McC's camera for the best likeness, we are told - hardly a task at all if there were in fact only the five of her that the McC's have released, unless KMcC never deletes her photos (unlike her mobile records) - given the tiny number of PdL photos it's entirely possible that if this was typical of her photographic practice then every photo she'd ever taken of Madeleine could still be on the memory card.

REPLY: How certain can we be that all five of these photos were taken on that holiday?

Which in turn was very convenient when it came to chosing a photo that was almost two years out of date. As for the other T9 there are only the awful (and not very numerous) black and white photos released in the files and viewable on the McCannfiles - but they are of such poor quality that they're almost useless. There has never been any video released which is equally strange...

Candyfloss,

You're spot on about the absence of any quantity of photos - a paltry five which is less than one for each day of her visit; the DNA evidence is even thinner, and in fact there is very little hard evidence to place her in PdL at all, and if we didn't have the mysteriously leaked YouTube clip showing her on the bus and then climbing the aircraft stairs there'd be preciously little to suggest she even travelled there (assuming that's what this shows) - all very curious.

REPLY: There was the tall man who accompanied her to Reception on, was it Day 1 or Day 2, to change the arrangements for their evening meals, i.e. to book the Tapas restaurant.
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14602
Reputation : 2764
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Discrepancy Questions

Post by Daoud on 22.10.10 17:04

Apologies Candyfloss,
I only checked your links after I'd posted - always a mistake!

Of the two articles the second is the most telling, here is an extract from the Daily Mail:

Did Madeleine's abductor target her after family's visit to remote village?

By SAM GREENHILL and NEIL SEARS
Last updated at 23:00 11 May 2007

The McCanns' day trip to pretty Sagres, 16 miles along the coast from Praia da Luz, coincided with reports of a balding man and a blonde woman taking sneaky pictures of youngsters.

The sinister couple have become prime suspects in the hunt for missing Madeleine.

A holidaymaker grew suspicious of them after the man began secretly snapping youngsters on the beach. When challenged, he fled in a car with the woman.
(...)
The McCanns are believed to have visited Sagres -which is on the country's southwest tip and effectively the "Land's End" of mainland Europe -on Monday, April 30.

A shopkeeper in the town said she remembered them well. She said: "On the road into the town, Kate was holding Madeleine's hand. On the other side of the road was Gerry with a baby buggy. "I remember thinking it odd to see him with a baby buggy because I thought the little girl was too old to need one." She said it was the same day as the stranger taking photographs, although other witnesses said that happened two days later.

Either way, it seems possible that Madeleine's abductor was watching the beach at Sagres for some time.
http://minnea.blogspot.com/2008/07/1st-key-sighting.html

I've no idea what is meant by 'taking sneaky photos' but the description of the couple sounds rather more like the Paynes than anything Jane Tanner said about 'bundleman' sounded like Rober Murat.
This is typical tabloid tomfoolery - it begins by stating that the McCs visited Sagres, then later qualifies it to 'are believed to have visited', and for such a short extract there are plenty of examples of tabloidese, 'sinister couple', 'secretly snapping', 'when challenged he fled in a car' (was he taking the secretive, sinister snaps from the car?). Finally the admission that the sinister couple may have been there two days later (Wednesday 2nd May) rather scuppers their sensational headline - what a surprise.

Neither of these articles are in the least bit credible in my opinion ...
avatar
Daoud

Posts : 147
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-02-03

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
McCanns apt & hire car


Blood and cadaver alerts
dismissed by UK Government


Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

Good Cop Down: The reality of being a police whistleblower
https://goodcopdown.wordpress.com/