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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by ultimaThule 17.12.13 8:54

suep wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


It's on a par with Gerry saying 'the situation we find ourselves in' followed by way of afterthought 'and the situation Madeleine finds herself in' as if the child had waited until her parents had gone out for the night before calling a cab and taking herself off to a paedophile lair in the hills surrounding Luz..

The level of detachment  from their firstborn child exhibited by McCanns is unnerving; I can't recall seeing anything like it before and certainly not in public by parents who would have the world believe their child was abducted by person(s) unknown from her bed..
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Post by Roamin 17.12.13 9:04

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
suep wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

That makes at least 2 of us being that cynical. I am even considering whether Madeleine actually existed at all.

I know that sounds bizarre, but think about it. All the evidence to support Madeleine being anywhere at any given time in her life has been presented by her parents, all the dodgy photo's etc. When you look at things like the Jamie Bulger crime, independant cctv was used to jog public memory and show an element of what went on.

Then you think about it again, for a child up to the age of 3-4, it is quite easy to have no supporting independant evidence of existence(especially if the parents happen to be Doctors).

Did Madeleine attend nursery at home? If not, then here comes the difficult bit, School.

So did a phantom pregnancy/child have to disappear? They have the twins now.

This then puts into context all the bizarre un parent like behaviour.

The dogs you all shout!!

Is it not easier for people in the medical profession to plant cadaver and similar body fluids, than make a real child disappear into thin air? As the police may have found, there may never be enough evidence to convict anybody of anything.

Then there are all the people who have been made to look like complete idiots taken in by the charade/fraud, vested interests to make it all just go away.

Sorry! that was a mad ramble of my current thoughts, brought on by a canary   laughat 

All allegedly and not a shred of evidence, please feel free to dismantle   pop2
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Post by ultimaThule 17.12.13 9:29

tigger wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:In that photo, all I noticed is the glass of white wine in her right hand.......

First time I've blown that one up. It's Kate's body, Kate's head but not from the same photograph.
Clear and weird blurring on the chin, neck and head not properly merged.
Kate has a very long neck, but almost as wide as her face. Only sideways does the neck look slender.
The hairdo isidentical to the one with Gerry, where he is pasted in complete with a picture on the wall behind him.
So two 'arranged' family/new mum pictures. The difference between the family baby and this one is another story again.

Not for the first time, KM's androngynous looks and masculine body shape has caused me to wonder whether androgen insensitivity syndrome is a possibility.

With regard to the baby in the 'glass of wine' photo, it has the looks of GM/his sisters whereas photos of what is alleged to be Madeleine show a child whose looks favour KM.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 9:35

Roamin wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
suep wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

That makes at least 2 of us being that cynical. I am even considering whether Madeleine actually existed at all.

I know that sounds bizarre, but think about it. All the evidence to support Madeleine being anywhere at any given time in her life has been presented by her parents, all the dodgy photo's etc. When you look at things like the Jamie Bulger crime, independant cctv was used to jog public memory and show an element of what went on.

Then you think about it again, for a child up to the age of 3-4, it is quite easy to have no supporting independant evidence of existence(especially if the parents happen to be Doctors).

Did Madeleine attend nursery at home? If not, then here comes the difficult bit, School.

So did a phantom pregnancy/child have to disappear? They have the twins now.

This then puts into context all the bizarre un parent like behaviour.

The dogs you all shout!!

Is it not easier for people in the medical profession to plant cadaver and similar body fluids, than make a real child disappear into thin air? As the police may have found, there may never be enough evidence to convict anybody of anything.

Then there are all the people who have been made to look like complete idiots taken in by the charade/fraud, vested interests to make it all just go away.

Sorry! that was a mad ramble of my current thoughts, brought on by a canary   laughat 

All allegedly and not a shred of evidence, please feel free to dismantle   pop2

I DO believe that Madeleine existed and for one simple reason only.
Kate's father, who seems to be the one and only 'human' being in this whole shebang, is to my mind GENUINELY bereft and suffering from the loss of his little grand-daughter, who I believe was the little light of his life. I see nothing but sheer pain and perplexed distress in his now weakened condition.  sad 
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 10:27

bobbin wrote:
suep wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
Very, very rarely IVF can result in two implanted embryos combining to make one person instead of the intended two, and if they were a male and female zygote, then the markers would show both XX and XY chromosomes. At one stage there was some confusion over Maddie's blood, some mention of it seeming to be as if from 3 people, or words to that effect. It seems strange that Maddie was not one of two implantations as were her subsequent siblings. With medical records withheld, the police cannot know enough to be able to ascertain the essential facts.
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Bobbin, do you know that there were not two implantations.  I believe there were two, as is usual in IVF, and one embryo did not survive early in the pregnancy.  IMO.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 11:02

Ladyinred wrote:
bobbin wrote:
suep wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Suep, I too have read about the increased risk of cerebral palsy.  There is also an increased risk when the child is a surviving twin.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
Very, very rarely IVF can result in two implanted embryos combining to make one person instead of the intended two, and if they were a male and female zygote, then the markers would show both XX and XY chromosomes. At one stage there was some confusion over Maddie's blood, some mention of it seeming to be as if from 3 people, or words to that effect. It seems strange that Maddie was not one of two implantations as were her subsequent siblings. With medical records withheld, the police cannot know enough to be able to ascertain the essential facts.
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Bobbin, do you know that there were not two implantations.  I believe there were two, as is usual in IVF, and one embryo did not survive early in the pregnancy.  IMO.
No, Ladyinred, I do not recall having seen any reference to whether Kate had one, two, or more implantations.
I only know from experience with other young women undergoing IVF that several implantations are systematically made at the same time, in the expectation that not all will survive to full term and the psychological / emotional distraction is very great each time a pregnancy fails to occur, so know therefore that several options are implanted to ensure that with any hope, at least one will make the journey.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 11:11

Yes, I agree with you, Bobbin.  I believe Madeleine "made the journey", i.e. was the surviving twin.
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Post by suep 17.12.13 11:58

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
suep wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I'm looking for the quote where Kate said [non verbatim]: the day Madeleine came home to us.
It makes me wonder if she might have been a premature baby in incubator.

Just a thought ...

I too was struck by a similar (possibly the same) quote. I thought it sounded very strange. As I remember it she said something like 'the day Madeleine came from the hospital to our house'. It sounded like she'd been delivered by post or walked there on her own! Surely you'd expect someone talking about this scenario to say 'the day we brought Madeleine home from the hospital' ? It made me wonder too that a surrogate mother may have been used.


If this was the case, what was the source of the heel prick card? When you start to ask questions like this you do start to wonder if the entire plan was conceived even before Madeleine was.

Yes, I am that cynical.

The heel prick is usually done soon after birth to test for phenylketonuria (I think) so with all this talk of a 'heel prick card' I'm presuming the drop of blood is smeared on a card and sent for testing. I had no idea this was retained anywhere once the test was done but if it is it would probably be kept in the baby's medical notes which would have been created at birth.These notes would then be kept at the hospital where the baby was born, in the medical records department.(GP medical records are a separate record entirely). Someone must have informed the PJ of the existence of this heel prick card for them to request it...or did they request it? I'm a bit hazy about this. What worries me is who went to get it? Who handed it over to them? Is there a credible chain of evidence record for it? There should be statements in the files to show this. The other worrying aspect of this bit of the story for me is the appearance of the pillowcase with Madeleine's saliva on it. This must have been at the Rothley house so was it GM or a family member who produced that and vouched for it being the genuine article? Surely not. For me the whole issue of the DNA evidence is compromised if the production into evidence of those samples had anything to do with the McC family.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 14:00

The forensic reports are clear on one thing: the DNA taken from the Rothley pillow was of a natural child of both McCanns, it was female and it was NOT Amelie.

ETA I'm with you, Bobbin. Grandpa Healy wasn't lying, when talking about Madeleine. She did exist.
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Post by Roamin 17.12.13 14:26

Châtelaine wrote:The forensic reports are clear on one thing: the DNA taken from the Rothley pillow was of a natural child of both McCanns, it was female and it was NOT Amelie.

ETA I'm with you, Bobbin. Grandpa Healy wasn't lying, when talking about Madeleine. She did exist.


That in a sense is good news for me, as I was begiining to seriously doubt Madeleines existence. The forensics, hopefully untainted, clear that up. Thank you


Now, was Madeleine in Portugal? The rest of the doubt still applies, the dogs (planted evidence, brought from UK?), lots of little blonde girls in pink, some dedringers for Madeleine, which one was Madeleine. No airport cctv, where are all the boarding cards, tickets, immigration control etc.


Has all the info from all the businesses, airlines, credit cards, etc, been collated? In 6 months time businesses can trash this stuff as 7 years is up (length of time to keep records)


Sorry if a bit of a hijack. I have complete respect for all you are doing, light needs  to be shone in all the dark corners


 
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Post by Miraflores 17.12.13 17:04

Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.
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Post by bobbin 17.12.13 17:42

Miraflores wrote:
Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.

Miraflores, I highlighted your reply because it came out, for me at least, very tiny.
I feel so terribly sad for Kate's father. What an awful disappointment, in his later years. I wish someone close to him could give him a big hug and tell him, they understand, but I don't think there is anyone like that close to him. Poor poor soul.
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Post by chillyheat 17.12.13 17:44

Miraflores wrote:
Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.

If Kates father is of a Jewish faith, then the consequences of a non Jewish funeral would be devastating.....
As in Kates book, she says her Fathers line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 17:56

ChillyHeat, I think that parents, grandparents and other close family and friends would devastated, if a loved one was missing, presumed dead and no grave to visit, whatever their religion or being atheist ...
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Post by chillyheat 17.12.13 18:04

Châtelaine wrote:ChillyHeat, I think that parents, grandparents and other close family and friends would devastated, if a loved one was missing, presumed dead and no grave to visit, whatever their religion or being atheist ...

I fully understand you, but of certain faiths, certain ceremonies have to be adhered too....That was the point I was trying to make
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Post by Miraflores 17.12.13 19:16

Funnily enough the quotes came out the right size for me, but somethings gone wrong somewhere because they never used to misbehave like that.
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Post by Guest 17.12.13 19:25

Miraflores wrote:Funnily enough the quotes came out the right size for me, but somethings gone wrong somewhere because they never used to misbehave like that.
***
It's not always easy, but do use "Preview" to check your comment. If it's not coming out allright, you can go back to "draft" and "send" only after you're sure it's O.K.
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Post by dromodaire 17.12.13 19:52

Chilliheat, wasn't there some kind of ceremony in Portugal? Not that the Mccanns admitted to this, but I'm sure I read somewhere, that they and all their family stopped off somewhere one day, as if on a trip, and that it was maybe being suggested that somekind of ceremony was being conducted.

But I can't remember anything more than that I'm afraid. However I think your point is vaild and even people who aren't overtly religious might have a strong need to bring a close to matters and say goodbye.
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Post by ultimaThule 17.12.13 19:55

ChillyHeat wrote:
Miraflores wrote:
Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.

If Kates father is of a Jewish faith, then the consequences of a non Jewish funeral would be devastating.....
As in Kates book, she says her Fathers line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews.

While her father may be descended from Jews, according to traditional Jewish law children can only be considered Jewish if they are born to Jewish mothers although Liberal and Reform Jews will recognise children who are born to Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers and are raised in the Jewish faith.  

Given that KM was baptised, confirmed, and married in the Catholic faith, observance of Jewish funeral rites doesn't arise.  

I seem to recall that Tigger posted an interesting study which suggests that the mourning rites of the Catholic faith may have been observed by the McCannsin the days following Madeleine's disappearance.
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Post by chillyheat 17.12.13 20:19

ultimaThule wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
Miraflores wrote:
Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.

If Kates father is of a Jewish faith, then the consequences of a non Jewish funeral would be devastating.....
As in Kates book, she says her Fathers line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews.

While her father may be descended from Jews, according to traditional Jewish law children can only be considered Jewish if they are born to Jewish mothers although Liberal and Reform Jews will recognise children who are born to Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers and are raised in the Jewish faith.  

Given that KM was baptised, confirmed, and married in the Catholic faith, observance of Jewish funeral rites doesn't arise.  

I seem to recall that Tigger posted an interesting study which suggests that the mourning rites of the Catholic faith may have been observed by the McCannsin the days following Madeleine's disappearance.

Ty UT.....I have put my thoughts on the Jeremy Wilkins thread, and I was looking at a Crypto Judaism thought
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My head does go into overdrive at times, for that I apologise
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Post by canada12 17.12.13 20:32

If anyone's interested in just how much you can do with Photoshop... watch this:

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With reference to "The Last Photo", the "Tennis Balls" photo, and any other photo you suspect might not be quite what it seems regarding Madeleine.
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Post by Miraflores 17.12.13 23:47

It's not always easy, but do use "Preview"
 I nearly always do a Preview - I notice that it's decided to put size =3 into the HTML and hence making it smaller. It never used to do that! It seems like some upgrade which hasn't quite worked.
However, this is off topic so I will shut up.
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Post by ultimaThule 18.12.13 0:17

ChillyHeat wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:
Miraflores wrote:
Kate's father, ............ is to my mind GENUINELY bereft
Yes, this was my impression too.

If Kates father is of a Jewish faith, then the consequences of a non Jewish funeral would be devastating.....
As in Kates book, she says her Fathers line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews.

While her father may be descended from Jews, according to traditional Jewish law children can only be considered Jewish if they are born to Jewish mothers although Liberal and Reform Jews will recognise children who are born to Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers and are raised in the Jewish faith.  

Given that KM was baptised, confirmed, and married in the Catholic faith, observance of Jewish funeral rites doesn't arise.  

I seem to recall that Tigger posted an interesting study which suggests that the mourning rites of the Catholic faith may have been observed by the McCannsin the days following Madeleine's disappearance.

Ty UT.....I have put my thoughts on the Jeremy Wilkins thread, and I was looking at a Crypto Judaism thought
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My head does go into overdrive at times, for that I apologise

No need for apology, Chilly - my head went into overdrive  when I followed your link to Crypto-Judaism and read about the Belmonte Jews of :Portugal and their Sephardic tradition... I feel another conspiracy theory coming on  big grin 
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Post by bobbin 18.12.13 8:28

canada12 wrote:If anyone's interested in just how much you can do with Photoshop... watch this:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With reference to "The Last Photo", the "Tennis Balls" photo, and any other photo you suspect might not be quite what it seems regarding Madeleine.
Very professionally done.
They also managed to get the lower left arm to become attached to its upper arm, unlike in the Maddie photo with the ice-cream AND the lollipop.
But then, maybe the ice-cream photo was photo-shopped for OTHER reasons, e.g. to send a subliminal message perhaps, to people who would know what they were 'really seeing'.
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Post by Guest 18.12.13 10:44

bobbin wrote:
canada12 wrote:If anyone's interested in just how much you can do with Photoshop... watch this:

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With reference to "The Last Photo", the "Tennis Balls" photo, and any other photo you suspect might not be quite what it seems regarding Madeleine.
Very professionally done.
They also managed to get the lower left arm to become attached to its upper arm, unlike in the Maddie photo with the ice-cream AND the lollipop.
But then, maybe the ice-cream photo was photo-shopped for OTHER reasons, e.g. to send a subliminal message perhaps, to people who would know what they were 'really seeing'.

Very interesting canada12, how easy it is to decieve! This is a prime example of deception by those in power:

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bobbin, agree with your thoughts on subliminal messages, I've wondered if the makeup photo was made public has a warning to certain people to  keep their mouths shut?
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Post by Mirage 18.12.13 11:02

Totally agree with that sentiment re the message sent out, Cherry Blossom. That image cannot be perceived in any other way AFAIC. Also, the skirting board photo is another iffy image.
I noticed this photo was turned at just the right angle in KM's home office photo on a recent thread to draw the eye straight to it in the foreground. It looked placed to me, Sending the same message perhaps?  All IMO of course.

Talking of subliminal, does anyone have a ref for the strange video made by TM that threw up random sweeps of PdL landscape and words zoomed in on, on computer screens etc?
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Post by Guest 18.12.13 11:09

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It must be this one, Mirage.

Absolutely bizarre and contains all the horrible inappropriate photos as well.
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Post by Mirage 18.12.13 11:45

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It must be this one, Mirage.

Absolutely bizarre and contains all the horrible inappropriate photos as well.  

Thanks NFWTD. Yes this is the one. The video pixelated oddly in a middle section when I ran it through. The word INFORMATION kept coming up. I would say this bit of film is chock full of subliminal imagery and has a sinister feel to it. Very edgy.

The photo I referred to of KM in her home office was separate to this though.

Btw, That lolly photo is horrible. The eyes seem ringed with khol and there is a look there I don't want to even think about.
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Post by Guest 18.12.13 11:50

The horrible lying down photo appears briefly in a shot of Kate's office at about 2.00.

My mother would have described the look in some photos as "too knowing for her age" and yes I'd agree with that.
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Post by russiandoll 18.12.13 14:13

Interesting : on that video you have kindly linked to, with the caption telling us that Kate finds Maddie missing at 10pm, we see the route to 5a , then up the steps and in through the patio doors.

No table and chairs on the balcony [ it was not a patio as it was not at ground level]. On CW we saw the forensic guys leaving via the patio doors, table and chairs there with one chair perilously close to the wall.

Very interesting, removing the table and chairs from that particular computer mock -up.

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