Re: Theresa May asks permission for Met to start Madeleine McCann inquiry in Portugal

by Who?What?Where? 01.08.13 0:30

I just read this on McCann files from Blacksmith:
[color:a23c=000000]Under international law UK detectives cannot arrest or interview witnesses on Portuguese soil.

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Can anyone think of a better place to go, for a UK citizen, if you wanted to get away with bad behaviour?

Possibly Zimbabwe, if you intend to befriend Robert Mugabe?

For the rest of them....

A "golfing holiday" in Portugal, anyone?

by marconi 01.08.13 2:44

Who?What?Where? wrote:I just read this on McCann files from Blacksmith:
Under international law UK detectives cannot arrest or interview witnesses on Portuguese soil.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Can anyone think of a better place to go, for a UK citizen, if you wanted to get away with bad behaviour?

Possibly Zimbabwe, if you intend to befriend Robert Mugabe?

For the rest of them....

A "golfing holiday" in Portugal, anyone?

It seems that the PJ will interrogate those persons of interest, having the Yard at their side.

by lj 01.08.13 4:39

I read that, even when they get that permission, they at all times have to be accompanied by a member of the PJ. I wonder if that would be possible if the case is not reopened. This whole excercise might not be feasible for legal reasons.

by lj 01.08.13 4:42

Who?What?Where? wrote:I just read this on McCann files from Blacksmith:
[color:64a1=000000]Under international law UK detectives cannot arrest or interview witnesses on Portuguese soil.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Can anyone think of a better place to go, for a UK citizen, if you wanted to get away with bad behaviour?

Possibly Zimbabwe, if you intend to befriend Robert Mugabe?

For the rest of them....

A "golfing holiday" in Portugal, anyone?

Another good article for those who think this Met excercise is such a good thing.

by marconi 01.08.13 5:42

Perhaps there is a possibility of making an exception, in extraordinary cases.
Or the PJ can reopen the case for a short time and archive it again.
A Judge can decide it.
It is a death of an innocent child, accidental or otherwise.

But i fear that the MCanns will start again with their anaconda and octopus tactic, again trying to suffocate the PJ.

And I can't think of the millions new sightings.

We don't have to be informed if they reopen the case for a short time.

Solving the case is everybody's priority.

by plebgate 01.08.13 7:59

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by plebgate 01.08.13 8:02

Ongoing police investigation in Portugal - no libel hearing?????

Any poster from Portugal shed light on this pls?

by Guest 01.08.13 8:12

plebgate wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

What is Desmond and his Editors playing at?

Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation

THE TV investigator who exposed Jimmy Savile as a paedophile claims UK police face a clash with Portuguese investigators over the Madeleine McCann mystery

Former officer Mark Williams-Thomas, 42, whose ITV documentary lifted the lid on Savile’s abuse, said the relationship between British and Portuguese police was “very tense”.
He claimed on Twitter it was “far from agreed” that the two forces would cooperate in the search for Madeleine, who vanished aged three while on holiday in Portugal in 2007.
Portugal’s law chiefs have received a letter from Home Secretary Theresa May asking for permission to base UK officers there.
But the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office said yesterday: “There is currently no timetable for when and how we will proceed.”
“The British authorities cannot carry out interviews or make inquiries in Portugual without being accompanied by public prosecutors.

Madeleine disapeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz during May of 2007

Mr Williams Thomas via Twitter wrote:“Relationship btwn UK police & Portuguese over Mets saying they will investigate Madeleine’s disappearance is very tense & far from agreed”

Mr Williams Thomas tweeted: “Home Sec sends request to Portugal asking if Mets can begin a new investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
“Relationship btwn UK police & Portuguese over Mets saying they will investigate Madeleine’s disappearance is very tense & far from agreed.”
Then-three-year-old Madeleine vanished from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia La Luz in May 2007.
Portuguese police, who were assisted by officers from the McCanns’ home force in Leicestershire, archived the case as an unsolved mystery.
Earlier this month Met Police, who started reviewing the investigation two years ago following a personal plea from the McCanns to the Prime Minister, said the operation had thrown up “new evidence, new witnesses, new thinking and new theories”.
They launched their own inquiry after identifying 38 potential suspects across five countries including Portugal and the UK.
Twelve of them are Brits.
Under international law UK detectives cannot arrest or interview witnesses on Portuguese soil.
But they can observe as local police carry out inquiries on their behalf.
If approval is given the Met is expected to seek new forensic evidence and pursue hundreds of possible leads its review is understood to have uncovered.
Scotland Yard declined to comment

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by jeanmonroe 01.08.13 10:15

"If approval is given the Met is expected to seek new forensic evidence and pursue hundreds of possible leads its review is understood to have uncovered."
___________________________________________________________

AFTER K McCann had 'spent' £100.000 on 'translating the files' using money FROM the 'fund' paid to SOMEBODY!

And who did NOT find a SINGLE lead, let alone HUNDREDS of possible leads!

What 'files' were K McCann and her 'translators 'reading'? Grimms Fairytales?

WHO was paid that £100,000? (for 'translating' the files)

by Montclair 01.08.13 10:28

The British cannot carry out any interviews or investigation in Portugal. They can submit the names of the people to be interviewed and the questions they want to be asked but it willl be the PJ who will do the questioning and investigating on their behalf while the British look on. Of course, even the questions SY wants to ask must be approved by the Ministério Público here in Portugal. In no way would SY be allowed to carry out any interviews or investigation while accompanied by the Portuguese, it would the other way around as with the rogatory interviews in 2008. Nor would they be allowed to seek forensic evidence.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.08.13 10:38

On another thread (dealing with my request for information from Operation Grange about trips abroad made by DCI Redwood and his staff)...

Lance de Boils wrote:

This is (imo) the easiest way to make FOI requests to any public body:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and Loopzadaloop (referring to my request) said:

No, please don't send requests like that.

Use [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's quick and easy to use.

As it is public they will feel under more obligation to respond. Then we can all see!

Also, if you receive a nonsense response like Tony did, the website helps you to request an internal review, followed by a trip to the Information Commissioner.

+++++++++

Well, I'm grateful for the information. I wasn't aware of this facility, so I am now trying it out. I have been wary of using sites with an automated facility, so will report back here in due course on how we get on with my first attempt at using this site, which runs as follows:

To: Home Office Freedom of Information Section

From: Anthony Bennett

1 August 2013

Dear Home Office,

On 30 July 2013, the London Evening Standard reported as follows:

"Home Secretary Theresa May has sent an official request to Lisbon
for permission for Scotland Yard to begin a new investigation in
Portugal into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

It follows the disclosure that the Met has identified 38 potential
suspects — including 12 Britons — who are “of interest” because of
their presence in Portugal when Madeleine vanished".

In relation to the above, please provide the following information:

1. The date the letter to the Portuguese was sent

2. To whom (name of department and person) the letter was sent (the
article merely says it was sent 'to Lisbon'), and

3. The full text of the letter.

Yours faithfully,

Anthony Bennett
66 Chippingfield
HARLOW
Essex

Tel: 01279 635789
Mobile: 07835 716537

++++++++++

ETA:

My goodness, less than 5 minutes after sending in my request via WhatDoTheyKnow, I got this:

From: FOI Requests, Home Office

1 August 2013

Thank you for contacting the FOI Requests mailbox.

Your message has been logged and will be dealt with shortly.

We aim to provide a response to all FOI requests within 20 working days.

If your message is with regard to an existing FOI case or is a general query please ensure you have left any file references and contact details.

Thank you.

[show quoted sections]

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

ENDS

by marconi 01.08.13 12:09

we must admit that rebekah brooks achieved her goal: new issues to be discuss about.

since July 2008, there was no more interesting material than there is now.

by jeanmonroe 01.08.13 13:32

Well done TB.

I hope you also asked why the prestigious investigation 'Operation GRANGE' is being called 'Operation fcuking STRANGE' by the vast majority of the great British public.
big grin

by **Tony Bennett** 01.08.13 14:14

jeanmonroe wrote:Well done TB.

I hope you also asked why the prestigious investigation 'Operation GRANGE' is being called 'Operation fcuking STRANGE' by the vast majority of the great British public.

There must be a limerick there somewhere...

by jeanmonroe 01.08.13 14:29

Tony Bennett wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:Well done TB.

I hope you also asked why the prestigious investigation 'Operation GRANGE' is being called 'Operation fcuking STRANGE' by the vast majority of the great British public.

There must be a limerick there somewhere...

Oh Tony, you know better than that!

Otherwise we'll have the McCanns 'supporters' saying TB said "Madeleine must be somewhere in Limerick"!

big grin

by lj 01.08.13 14:31

Montclair wrote:The British cannot carry out any interviews or investigation in Portugal. They can submit the names of the people to be interviewed and the questions they want to be asked but it willl be the PJ who will do the questioning and investigating on their behalf while the British look on. Of course, even the questions SY wants to ask must be approved by the Ministério Público here in Portugal. In no way would SY be allowed to carry out any interviews or investigation while accompanied by the Portuguese, it would the other way around as with the rogatory interviews in 2008. Nor would they be allowed to seek forensic evidence.

Good! Because it seemed very strange to me that they could just come in, settle and investigate.

by jeanmonroe 01.08.13 14:54

lj wrote:
Montclair wrote:The British cannot carry out any interviews or investigation in Portugal. They can submit the names of the people to be interviewed and the questions they want to be asked but it willl be the PJ who will do the questioning and investigating on their behalf while the British look on. Of course, even the questions SY wants to ask must be approved by the Ministério Público here in Portugal. In no way would SY be allowed to carry out any interviews or investigation while accompanied by the Portuguese, it would the other way around as with the rogatory interviews in 2008. Nor would they be allowed to seek forensic evidence.

Good! Because it seemed very strange to me that they could just come in, settle and investigate.

_______________________________________________________________________

Good! Because it seemed very 'Operation STRANGE' to me that they could just come in, settle and investigate.

by **PeterMac** 01.08.13 15:01

Operation Grange
Looks very strange.
The little girl’s “not there”
But no one seems to care

by jeanmonroe 01.08.13 15:24

There once was a girl called Maddie,
Who was last seen by her Daddy,
She was full of fun, and chatter,
Her mother, a stunner, did a swift runner,
Screaming "the case is shelved!, it dosen't matter!"

by Guest 01.08.13 16:11

sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Opps, I didn't mean to send this as a new thread. Can you please remover to another thread, please?

by sallypelt 01.08.13 16:20

candyfloss wrote:
sallypelt wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Opps, I didn't mean to send this as a new thread. Can you please remover to another thread, please?

"remover"

I really need to stop multi-tasking and concentrate.

by Lance De Boils 01.08.13 16:41

Tony Bennett wrote:On another thread (dealing with my request for information from Operation Grange about trips abroad made by DCI Redwood and his staff)...

Lance de Boils wrote:

This is (imo) the easiest way to make FOI requests to any public body:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and Loopzadaloop (referring to my request) said:

No, please don't send requests like that.

Use [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it's quick and easy to use.

As it is public they will feel under more obligation to respond. Then we can all see!

Also, if you receive a nonsense response like Tony did, the website helps you to request an internal review, followed by a trip to the Information Commissioner.

+++++++++

Well, I'm grateful for the information. I wasn't aware of this facility, so I am now trying it out. I have been wary of using sites with an automated facility, so will report back here in due course on how we get on with my first attempt at using this site, which runs as follows:

To: Home Office Freedom of Information Section

From: Anthony Bennett

1 August 2013

Dear Home Office,

On 30 July 2013, the London Evening Standard reported as follows:

"Home Secretary Theresa May has sent an official request to Lisbon
for permission for Scotland Yard to begin a new investigation in
Portugal into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

It follows the disclosure that the Met has identified 38 potential
suspects — including 12 Britons — who are “of interest” because of
their presence in Portugal when Madeleine vanished".

In relation to the above, please provide the following information:

1. The date the letter to the Portuguese was sent

2. To whom (name of department and person) the letter was sent (the
article merely says it was sent 'to Lisbon'), and

3. The full text of the letter.

Yours faithfully,

Anthony Bennett
66 Chippingfield
HARLOW
Essex

Tel: 01279 635789
Mobile: 07835 716537

++++++++++

ETA:

My goodness, less than 5 minutes after sending in my request via WhatDoTheyKnow, I got this:

From: FOI Requests, Home Office

1 August 2013

Thank you for contacting the FOI Requests mailbox.

Your message has been logged and will be dealt with shortly.

We aim to provide a response to all FOI requests within 20 working days.

If your message is with regard to an existing FOI case or is a general query please ensure you have left any file references and contact details.

Thank you.

[show quoted sections]

Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.

ENDS

Ah, glad you looked at whatdotheyknow.com Tony - I've used it myself in the past and found it an efficient tool.

And as Loopzdaloop pointed out, even the requests are in the public domain, so it's easy to see when FOI requests have been responded to, denied, or even ignored as seems to be the case occasionally. It's all logged there for the wider public to see.

by marconi 01.08.13 20:55

regretful to call it a charade investigation.

it is not.

England is telling us much more than we have ever heard from the PJ.

we have to be patient. yes

by marconi 01.08.13 21:07

I regret that there are people that called the Yard's work and Mrs. May decision as been a charade investigation.

Things can not go as fast as we want. Of course we all know that Maddie died in the apartment and that the perpetrator got away with it.

We have to be patient and wait till the Met get the evidence, which is already found by the PJ.

We must be very happy that at least we are hearing about the case, and not depending of the mysterios silence of the PJ's, which can be very irritating.

As I wrote here before, an investigation is also based on elimination. Most of those 38 persons of interest, if not all of them, are not involved in the crime.
But they have to be eliminated of suspicion.
Only after the whole road is cleaned up, the Yard will arrive at Tapas 9, llike the PJ did in 2007.
Maybe there are one of two people in Algarve who know more about the case, the whereabouts of the corpse, etc.

We have to wait.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.08.13 21:17

Tony Bennett wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:Well done TB.

I hope you also asked why the prestigious investigation 'Operation GRANGE' is being called 'Operation fcuking STRANGE' by the vast majority of the great British public.

There must be a limerick there somewhere...

This is it:

Cameron told May: "Please arrange
A Review of a case very strange:
Amaral was all twisted -
And Rebekah's insisted
So now we've got Redwood - and Grange.

The Review's cost 5 million quid
But it's worth it for one missing kid
The Review had stagnated,
But now we're elated...
Portugal's said 'Yes' to our bid.

by **sharonl** 01.08.13 22:47

Portugal cooperate with Scotland Yard in the search for Madeleine McCann

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The parents of missing Madeleine McCann shows a photo of her daughter. | Efe

Last updated on Thursday 01/08/2013 15:21 pm
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The Portuguese authorities have agreed to collaborate with the British police, which have announced new clues about the context in which being neglected little Madeleine McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve in Portugal, where he was vacationing with his family in 2007 .

"We confirm having received a request for judicial assistance from the British authorities (...) which has been accepted," said a spokesman for the prosecutor.

"British police may not, however, act alone in the country. They may only work with the Portuguese authorities so request", he explained the spokesman.

Scotland Yard, which opened an investigation in the UK, announced it was working on "new and serious clues" about the mystery of the disappearance of British girl. He also announced that he planned to question 38 people having analyzed the results of two years of the Portuguese police investigation at the request of British Prime Minister David Cameron.

These people are not necessarily suspects, according to Scotland Yard has stated. These include Portuguese and 12 British citizens who were in the country at the time of the disappearance of 'Maddie'. The researchers want to determine whether the respondents are involved in the case.

Kate and Gerry McCann, who believe that their daughter was abducted, were considered suspect by the Portuguese police, but this branch of the investigation was closed on July 21, 2008, after 14 months of investigations controversial. No charges were filed against them.

Since 2011, Scotland Yard has turned to solving the case that reached a global relevance. British police, which also features information gathered by Portuguese researchers and seven private investigators visited Portugal several times and interviewed new witnesses, which brought together more than 30,000 documents. Until then, reiterated Portuguese police have no more evidence that could reopen the investigation.

by Smokeandmirrors 01.08.13 22:56

Tony Bennett wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:Well done TB.

I hope you also asked why the prestigious investigation 'Operation GRANGE' is being called 'Operation fcuking STRANGE' by the vast majority of the great British public.

There must be a limerick there somewhere...
This is it:

Cameron told May: "Please arrange
A Review of a case very strange:
Amaral was all twisted -
And Rebekah's insisted
So now we've got Redwood - and Grange.

The Review's cost 5 million quid
But it's worth it for one missing kid
The Review had stagnated,
But now we're elated...
Portugal's said 'Yes' to our bid.

Marvellous! bravo

by littlepixie 02.08.13 0:21

I have followed this case from more or less day one. There is one thing that I have never understood and I wonder if anyone might be able to shed some light on this as it bugs me.

I may have seen only the one version of the Eddie & Keela video where they alert to cadaver and blood (there may be others) but on the video is slapped "The Sun" as in the Sun Newspaper.
It was also the editor of the Sun Rebekah Brookes who lent on (almost threatened) David Cameron to open the review into the case that is ongoing now.

The Sun video of the cadaver and blood dogs is damning as it indicates that a dead body was in the same apartment that the child had disappeared from. I presume that the Sun would have drawn the same conclusion as anyone else after seeing that video, that somebody dead and bleeding had been in there at some stage.

MANY, many stories have been printed in the Sun defending the parents of the child. Some of them way over the top and some of the journalists who work there have gone above and beyond what would be considered normal behaviour in doing so.

Why?

by Maive 02.08.13 1:24

Papers can't print the "real stuff" because they would be pursued.. They can't print anything before arrests, trial, etc..

So imo there is a common agreement amongst the Press to not print stuff from the PJ Files...... for now :)

BUT they are watching.. closely big grin

Never forget that the Press is heartless, it's all about money, friendship has nothing to do with that titter

by Who?What?Where? 02.08.13 2:08

Paper's cannot print the real stuff, because they are prohibited by prominent politcian's.

People know, that prominent politician's lie through their teeth, while wearing a fake smile.

People know that media baron's lie through their teeth, while wearing a fake smile.

Seriously, what is the point?

It is fatally flawed. Just tell the truth.

Theresa May asks permission for Met to start Madeleine McCann inquiry in Portugal