Re: Oscar Pistorius

by jozi 08.12.15 7:19

He is back in Court today.....think its to appeal his MURDER conviction !!!

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by jozi 08.12.15 7:45

You could not make this up if we tried .......Just shows the ANCWL up for what it is !!! They don't give a stuff about abuse of woman only there to look good knowing the World and his dog will be watching them sitting next to Reeve's Mum !!!

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by Liz Eagles 08.12.15 19:25

Pistorius is back in court in April 2016 and according to the press it is to establish an update on his appeal - not the sentencing for the murder conviction. All the while the clock is ticking on 'time served'. It's all classed as 'time served'. Oscar has been shown in the media going into the Pretoria Department of Correction to have an electronic device fitted to his wrist - this is 'time served'.

April 2016 will be just the beginning of proceedings. Expect delays in deliberations to take shall we say at least another six months of time-served. This will bring Oscar's time served to over 2 years. In the meantime Oscar will have the opportunity to do good things, to study, to engage in acts of public benefit/contrition.

Any sentence for the crime of murder IF the murder charge is upheld at appeal will be diluted to say 8-10 years and will probably be written off as 'time served'.

It's theatre.

by jozi 10.12.15 7:59

You could be right aquila, it does seem a farce at the moment. He has been tagged so hopefully he cannot go beyond the limit on the tags. I cannot understand why they allowed him bail and did not make him go straight to jail, after all his sentence has been changed to MURDER.

Don't worry as all the Lawyers etc will be making as much money as possible ........Just like they do in all the other Countries ?

Obviously they don't think he is a flight risk ???

by Liz Eagles 12.12.15 13:23

jozi wrote:
aquila wrote:Pistorius is back in court in April 2016 and according to the press it is to establish an update on his appeal - not the sentencing for the murder conviction. All the while the clock is ticking on 'time served'. It's all classed as 'time served'. Oscar has been shown in the media going into the Pretoria Department of Correction to have an electronic device fitted to his wrist - this is 'time served'.

April 2016 will be just the beginning of proceedings. Expect delays in deliberations to take shall we say at least another six months of time-served. This will bring Oscar's time served to over 2 years. In the meantime Oscar will have the opportunity to do good things, to study, to engage in acts of public benefit/contrition.

Any sentence for the crime of murder IF the murder charge is upheld at appeal will be diluted to say 8-10 years and will probably be written off as 'time served'.

It's theatre.
You could be right aquila, it does seem a farce at the moment. He has been tagged so hopefully he cannot go beyond the limit on the tags. I cannot understand why they allowed him bail and did not make him go straight to jail, after all his sentence has been changed to MURDER.

Don't worry as all the Lawyers etc will be making as much money as possible ........Just like they do in all the other Countries ?

Obviously they don't think he is a flight risk ???

The equivalent of £450 bail was an absolute triumph. No-one has stumped up bail for Oscar - his family didn't chip in with a shedload of money/conditions on the sale of properties owned by them whilst he is their charge outside of prison.

Oscar is apparently poor now, almost destitute and in need of a safe harbour in the bosom of his family and can no longer afford lawyers so we are told. I doubt very much he'll be engaging lawyers provided by the state to defend him so someone is paying for them. I can't see a 'no win, no fee'/pro bono situation. A contingency fee may have been agreed to continue to engage OP's lawyers which has eaten up any capital he has.

As for a flight risk, that's the wonderful thing about his defence. He is not a flight risk. He has complied with everything.

There's no need for Oscar to go anywhere. He's off the hook.

South Africa can't afford to stick him back in jail (for long). South African jails are appalling and he's not safe there. No-one is safe in a South African jail - especially a white, famous disabled man - can you imagine the media interest that will continue if he is stuck in the slammer after such a public trial? It's all going Oscar's way - but that was what it was all about in the first place.

South Africa is a terribly corrupt third world country that likes to show post-apartheid things have improved under ANC rule. It hasn't - and I could weep for this country.

by aiyoyo 22.04.16 10:12

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Speechless ! How they can miss that?
He can't be retried.
With that evidence, even the introduction of it, "murder" verdict is a guarantee.
Hope his sentencing in June isn't tasked to Judge Masipa.
Don't understand why he is accorded special privilege to stay in his uncle's mansion when it's common and normal for convicted murderer to be denied bail.

Prosecutor should propose his sentencing. A life for a life.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 14:10

Oscar Pistorius trial/sentencing for murder has begun again.

The mental health card is being heavily played which is not unexpected. Have a look at the Shrien Dewani case thrown out by South African courts.

I'm not going to be popular for this comment but what the hell, I'll say it anyway. There is a certain breed of white South African that thinks themselves above all other others. Afrikaaners with money (such as Oscar's family) think they can tote guns, drive expensive cars at fast speeds along the highways and go to posh places to network with other wealthy, bad attitude people. This doesn't come from the average Afrikaans parent by the way. Afrikaans mothers would smack their children across the cheek for lack of respect. Afrikaans mothers run the basket case that is South Africa. Without Afrikaans women there would be no administration, no charity, no nothing.

It wasn't Afrikaans women who indulged Pistorius. It was the complete eejits (I know, because I've lived there) who are men, gun-toting men who think it's ok to kill something. They are nothing more than baboons.

Afrikaans women think differently. Reeva Steenkamp's mother must surely know that had her daughter not wished for a high-profile media life she would never have given Oscar Pistorius a nod in the desert. I know this, because I watched the dreadful networking in South Africa. It made me feel sick. Reeva Steenkamp would not have been with Oscar Pistorius if it weren't in her favour to have a life of wealth.

Oscar Pistorius shot Reeva Steenkamp and killed her. The trial was televised because it was of 'international' interest. It wasn't really of international interest. It was a trial that had Oscar Pistorius been an ordinary oke and Reeva Steenkamp been an ordinary girl wouldn't have seen the light of day in international news.

We're now heading into the next phase of not only the media circus but the dreadful, and I mean truly dreadful lack of justice for someone who was murdered...and I don't much like Reeva Steenkamp, I think she affiliated herself with a high profile person because it suited her. Once again, to have lived in South Africa is to know how bloody awful this dreadful networking is.

by skyrocket 13.06.16 15:02

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Pistorius is due everything coming to him as he's a murderer. It will be interesting to see how much time he actually serves inside a prison.

Your rather sweeping comments regarding gun toting, male Afrikanaas are rather harsh. The majority of my many friends/aquaintances in SA carry guns in their glove compartments, including the women, irrespective of whether they are Afrikaanas or not. It is a matter of self protection. You must know that fast cars; driving fast; guns; are all part of the South African culture and have been for a long time, across all backgrounds. The rules of the road are different to the UK and drink driving is also endemic. Women are not required to stop at red lights after dark as car hijacking (in which the victim is highly likely to be shot unless they react quickly) is rife. Areas of Jo'burg are like war zones as are areas of the Cape. Home invasions; robberies; rape and assaults (including murders) are common. Wealthy whites and blacks alike, live with security - bars on all windows; gated estates with guard entry; armed security guard patrols; etc. Some of my friends have gone through life there with only minor incidents; others have been attacked in their homes on more than one occasion.

Having said that, SA is a stunning country and is a brilliant place for a holiday if you're sensible, and South Africans, across the board, are great people.

And, Reeva Steenkamp's mother is actually from the Northwest of England - Blackburn. Her father is an Afrikaana.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 15:08

Please tell me where it is the norm for South Africans to carry guns in the glove compartment of their cars.

You are talking through the top of your hat.

by skyrocket 13.06.16 15:22

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - not going to argue. My husband is South African. He has a large family and we have many friends. Don't forget most of those over a certain age went through conscription (like Rhodesia) and fought in the border war - I know that's not relevant to the Pistorius's age bracket but like America, SA is a gun culture. I can't believe that there are very many homes which don't possess a fire arm, I can't think of a single one that I know.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 15:42

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - not going to argue. My husband is South African. He has a large family and we have many friends. Don't forget most of those over a certain age went through conscription (like Rhodesia) and fought in the border war - I know that's not relevant to the Pistorius's age bracket but like America, SA is a gun culture. I can't believe that there are very many homes which don't possess a fire arm, I can't think of a single one that I know.

Are you saying that you can't think of a single home in South Africa that doesn't contain a gun?

by skyrocket 13.06.16 15:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that I know.

Infact, changing countries but similar culture - a uni friend of mine from Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) came home from his conscription with a wardrobe full (literally) of hand grenades; guns; and god knows what else. Another rather immature friend from the same country came home after the Rhodesian war and promptly blew up his father's garden shed with explosives he'd brought back with him from the fighting - no idea why. I appreciate times have changed over the last few years and gun laws in SA have been tightened but gun ownership is still very high out there. I doubt that the average man/woman makes a huge show of ownership unless the situation requires it; no-one I know could be described as gun toting.

by **Nina** 13.06.16 16:02

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that I know.

Infact, changing countries but similar culture - a uni friend of mine from Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) came home from his conscription with a wardrobe full (literally) of hand grenades; guns; and god knows what else. Another rather immature friend from the same country came home after the Rhodesian war and promptly blew up his father's garden shed with explosives he'd brought back with him from the fighting - no idea why. I appreciate times have changed over the last few years and gun laws in SA have been tightened but gun ownership is still very high out there. I doubt that the average man/woman makes a huge show of ownership unless the situation requires it; no-one I know could be described as gun toting.

Our ex daughter in law and her mother and sister all carried a taser too as well as a small hand gun.

by skyrocket 13.06.16 16:08

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - yes, it's a different way of life and not one I'd like. Wet and cold weather in the UK are a small price for a safe (and relaxed) environment. Family/friends have moved over here and they tend to go completely the other way - I have to drill it into them to close windows and lock doors when they go out!

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 16:10

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that I know.

Infact, changing countries but similar culture - a uni friend of mine from Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) came home from his conscription with a wardrobe full (literally) of hand grenades; guns; and god knows what else. Another rather immature friend from the same country came home after the Rhodesian war and promptly blew up his father's garden shed with explosives he'd brought back with him from the fighting - no idea why. I appreciate times have changed over the last few years and gun laws in SA have been tightened but gun ownership is still very high out there. I doubt that the average man/woman makes a huge show of ownership unless the situation requires it; no-one I know could be described as gun toting.

I think you're speaking nonsense for the sake of it.

Gun laws have been tightened up in SA? Jeez, the guns were given in to the government/police at that time or did you have a convenient moment of amnesia there.

Guns are owned by South Africans, mad South Africans who have some sense of weird colonial right to carry arms, shoot and kill animals with rifles but let me tell you, South Africans do NOT carry firearms to arrest/disarm human beings. They simply don't do it. South Africans are mostly pissed off that there is no law and order in their country but to shoot someone with a pistol in the glove compartment of their car isn't an option. I can't imagine the consequence of shooting someone as a white person with a 'right to carry arms'. It's bullshit. No-one in South Africa has the right to carry a firearm unless they are police or other authority.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 16:17

Nina wrote:
skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that I know.

Infact, changing countries but similar culture - a uni friend of mine from Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) came home from his conscription with a wardrobe full (literally) of hand grenades; guns; and god knows what else. Another rather immature friend from the same country came home after the Rhodesian war and promptly blew up his father's garden shed with explosives he'd brought back with him from the fighting - no idea why. I appreciate times have changed over the last few years and gun laws in SA have been tightened but gun ownership is still very high out there. I doubt that the average man/woman makes a huge show of ownership unless the situation requires it; no-one I know could be described as gun toting.
Our ex daughter in law and her mother and sister all carried a taser too as well as a small hand gun.

Seriously Nina? they carried guns? what year was this?

I was completely bowled over by the carrying of pepper spray in South Africa and I'm only going back about five years ago. There was no right to carry a gun, and when I was in South Africa tasers were outlawed too.

by **Nina** 13.06.16 16:24

5/6 years ago aquila.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 16:28

South Africa, the lawful/lawless country then.

Did you ask you ex daughter-in-law whether she was licenced to carry a hand gun? because it's illegal in South Africa, and had she used it she would have been jailed.

by skyrocket 13.06.16 16:40

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'Hey everyone, after some questions and prompting on a post of mine on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I decided to post this guide on gun law and ownership in South Africa. You might find it interesting since it's pretty uncommon to hear about anything other than American law on here. I won't be going into the situations under which it is legal to use a firearm for self-defence, since that is a lot more complex than in many other countries. This turned a bit into an AMA, so have a look at a lot of the comments too.
First things first, to own a gun in South Africa you must either be a permanent resident or a citizen. You must have no record of violent crime or violation of the Firearms Control Act 60 of 2000 (referred to as the act from now on). If you have committed a violent crime or violated the act, you must wait five years after such charges before you can apply to review your ban on firearm ownership.
The first step to get a firearm in South Africa is apply for firearms competency. You must undergo evaluation at a training provider which has been certified by the South African Police Service which will evaluate your knowledge of the act and usage of firearms. There are separate tests for each category of firearm you wish to own: pistol, shotgun, bolt action rifles, and carbines (any self-loading long arm). The written tests are quite easy, being open book, and the operating tests even easier, requiring 4/5 shots into a relatively large target at very short range with the weapon in question. It's a bit of a joke, but that's what the law requires. Once this is completed you receive a training certificate which you will later provide with your competency application. There is also a competency for black powder weapons (which are much less regulated), however I am not familiar with that process having never gone through it.
You will also have to provide a document from your regular doctor stating that you do not suffer from depression, any other mental illness which causes altered emotional states, or are undergoing any treatment for emotional instability. You must also provide the police with at least two references of close friends or family who will be interviewed (usually via telephone) to judge that you are of sound and reasonable character without a history of violence. This is not strictly compulsory but in my experience has been generally enforced.
Once you have all this you can go down to your local police station where a Designated Firearms Officer (DFO) will take your fingerprints and submit your application for competency. The waiting period for receiving your competency certificate is approximately six weeks as it is performed at the national police headquarters (in the capitol, Pretoria) and includes background checks.
The certificate you receive is valid for life and a copy must be submitted with each firearm application (you can apply for your first firearm license concurrently with your competency application, reducing the waiting time).
At any time during the previous process (or even before) you can already purchase the firearm you wish to own, however the firearm dealership may not release the weapon to you until you present them with a valid firearms license in your name with matching serial number and calibre to the weapon. The dealer will provide you with a form at purchase containing the particulars of the firearm which you must present to your DFO at your local police station. Your current home address and other firearms you own must be detailed on this form, including a motivation for ownership of the firearm being applied for.
The firearm motivation is endless cause of consternation in the local gun community, a lot of people send 40 page motivations which include local crime statistics and the lengths they've gone through to protect themselves. Yet they still get their applications rejected. Mostly this is a failure to properly study the act and to motivate within its requirements. I've never written more than a page and a half as motivation and have never had a license application rejected.
You will once again have to have your fingerprints taken for the application. You can apply under a number of different license categories for your firearm, which I will now describe:

Self Defence (SD) - Valid for five years, limited to one weapon per person, any pistol, revolver, or shotgun which is not self-loading, licensing a weapon outside these limitations requires extra motivation and limits the license validity to two years
Occasional Sport Shooter (OSS) - Valid for ten years, limited to four per person (three if you poses a self defence license), any pistol, revolver, bolt action rifle, or shotgun which is not self-loading
Dedicated Sport Shooter (DSS) - Valid for ten years, unlimited number of weapons of any type, excluding fully automatic weapons, you must compete in a minimum number of accredited shooting association matches each year to maintain this license
Occasional Hunter (OH) - Identical to OSS
Professional Hunter (PH) - Valid for ten years, any number of long arms (legality of hunting using self-loading weapons differs from province to province), you must be a member of an accredited hunting association and fulfil the requirements of that association for each year to maintain this license
Collector - Valid for ten years, any weapons including small artillery pieces and fully automatic weapons may owned under this license, however you must be part of an accredited collectors association and any weapon you wish to license must be motivated along the "theme" of your collection

When your license expires you must repeat the entire application process, including motivation of ownership (another bone of contention amongst local firearm owners).
Additionally you must provide proof that you have a safe for the firearm in question and that it is securely installed in your home, for first time applicants this usually involves a police inspection of the safe in your home.
The usual wait from application submission to license receipt is approximately two months (though during periods of backlogs and strike action it can extend to 12+ months). Your application goes from your local DFO to the provincial headquarters, and then to the capitol headquarters where it is reviewed. If your application is successful, your license card is printed at your provincial headquarters and delivered to your DFO where you can pick it up.
There is no penalty to having your license application denied, usually a reason will be provided and you can apply again immediately, however the entire waiting process starts again. You can appeal a rejected license, but the average wait for an appeal is far longer than simply applying again.
Once you have your weapon and license you can do pretty much whatever you want within legal bounds, you aren't limited by what is written on the license. You can carry your DSS race gun all day and use it for self defence. You can take great-great-grandpa's Boer War Mauser 1898 under PH and use it in IDPA three gun. There are no limitations on barrel lengths, silencers, magazine size, or accessories of any kind, however you may not remove any identifying marks (serial numbers and such) or change the calibre of the weapon (that would require relicensing).
If you want to carry the law requires that it is carried securely (i.e. in a holster) and that it is concealed. It's concealed carry or leave it at home. Open carry is a punishable offence and most local firearm owners believe if it were allowed it would make you a target for criminals. This practically limits carry to pistols, though you can still use any licensed weapon for self defence if you have it at hand. You do not need to apply specifically to carry, the right is granted automatically on receipt of your license (with the limitations I just mentioned).
As for ammunition you can only buy ammunition which is safe to fire in your weapon (basically limited to the calibre it is licensed under, except for rimfire ammunition and revolvers), unless you have DSS or PH you are limited to only 200 rounds of any single calibre in your possession at a time. Reloading supplies are limited to 2400 primers, 2.4kg of powder, and 200 empty brass outside of DSS or PH.
Lastly, you must notify the firearms registry of a change in your home address within 30 days of moving.
I think that covers just about everything, I'll post any corrections in the comments and mention them at the top of this post.
For those who are curious, I currently own four firearms:

SD - S&W M&P Shield 9mm
OSS - H&K USP 9mm
OSS - Winchester 1300 Defender 12Ga
DSS - FN FAL'

10 months ago.

by **Nina** 13.06.16 16:47

aquila wrote:
Nina wrote:
aquila wrote:
Nina wrote:
skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that I know.

Infact, changing countries but similar culture - a uni friend of mine from Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) came home from his conscription with a wardrobe full (literally) of hand grenades; guns; and god knows what else. Another rather immature friend from the same country came home after the Rhodesian war and promptly blew up his father's garden shed with explosives he'd brought back with him from the fighting - no idea why. I appreciate times have changed over the last few years and gun laws in SA have been tightened but gun ownership is still very high out there. I doubt that the average man/woman makes a huge show of ownership unless the situation requires it; no-one I know could be described as gun toting.
Our ex daughter in law and her mother and sister all carried a taser too as well as a small hand gun.
Seriously Nina? they carried guns? what year was this?

I was completely bowled over by the carrying of pepper spray in South Africa and I'm only going back about five years ago. There was no right to carry a gun, and when I was in South Africa tasers were outlawed too.
5/6 years ago aquila.
South Africa, the lawful/lawless country then.

Did you ask you ex daughter-in-law whether she was licenced to carry a hand gun? because it's illegal in South Africa, and had she used it she would have been jailed.

Yes they were aquila. Not sure about the tasers though and I never saw those to be honest. They moved from Namibia to Cape Town.

Every private house or estate we visited though whilst there was heavily guarded with spiked topped walls and big dogs. Now this made me very nervous.

by skyrocket 13.06.16 17:34

Just wanted to add that no-one I know who possesses a firearm in SA shoots wildlife. One of our closest friends has just sold his business to devote his time to saving rhino.

by Guest 13.06.16 17:52

If I lived in SA I would want a gun.

I suspect the Police are not just around the corner looking after you.

by Liz Eagles 13.06.16 18:25

In S.A. the security companies paid for around £30 per month have operatives legally licenced to carry a gun - and they turn up a long time before the police in my experience. Press your alarm button and there's an armed oke at your door within a couple of minutes. Oscar Pistorius seems to have missed the point there.

by Guest 13.06.16 18:36

aquila wrote:
BlueBag wrote:If I lived in SA I would want a gun.

I suspect the Police are not just around the corner looking after you.
In S.A. the security companies paid for around £30 per month have operatives legally licenced to carry a gun - and they turn up a long time before the police in my experience. Press your alarm button and there's an armed oke at your door within a couple of minutes. Oscar Pistorius seems to have missed the point there.

Two minutes and you're dead.

I would want a gun.

by mysterion 13.06.16 19:12

What is an oke?

by skyrocket 13.06.16 21:58

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Oke is used in the same context as guy/bloke. Can also be used to describe a mixed sex group, the same as guys e.g. 'What are you okes doing tomorrow?'

by Liz Eagles 14.06.16 5:30

My sincere apologies for being wrong and I got the gun laws (and taser laws) in South Africa completely wrong.

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This is a sincere apology.

Back onto the Pistorius case, there is a forthcoming documentary where Oscar Pistorius speaks to Mark Williams-Thomas

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for 24th June.

This is British media gaining a scoop. What it has to do with British media beats me, however Mark Williams-Thomas is the go-to man for securing an interview with Oscar Pistorius. This is the same Mark Williams-Thomas who has been discussed on this forum many times with regards to his less than transparent occupation/short time served within the UK police.

Mark Williams-Thomas' forthcoming documentary due to be scheduled on ITV on 24th June is also a part of the sentencing trial. It's been taken to task by Gerrie Nel when questioning an expert psychologist giving evidence on behalf of Oscar Pistorius.

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by skyrocket 14.06.16 7:45

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - no problem, we all get things wrong from time to time. As you say, back to the main topic - Pistorius.

by Liz Eagles 14.06.16 14:56

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - no problem, we all get things wrong from time to time. As you say, back to the main topic - Pistorius.

Thank you. As an aside, I'd love to hear and discuss your experience of South Africa - mine wasn't so good after gunmen entered the house. The police were useless - I found a bullet on the living room carpet after they'd left - and I kid you not when I say that a man walked into the living room while I was giving my account of things to complain that the corner shop was selling out of date foodstuff.

The only person who was on the ball was the security guard who turned up within a couple of minutes of pressing the panic alarm. I couldn't get to the panic alarm because I was dragged throughout the house with my arms tied and a gun pressed into me.

I find it really strange that Oscar Pistorius didn't hit the panic button in his bedroom - surely he had a panic button in his bedroom (and he lived in a gated community with 24 hour security just yards away from his house) but took a loaded gun kept underneath his bed and went into 'combat mode'.

by jozi 16.06.16 12:30

aquila wrote:
skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - no problem, we all get things wrong from time to time. As you say, back to the main topic - Pistorius.
Thank you. As an aside, I'd love to hear and discuss your experience of South Africa - mine wasn't so good after gunmen entered the house. The police were useless - I found a bullet on the living room carpet after they'd left - and I kid you not when I say that a man walked into the living room while I was giving my account of things to complain that the corner shop was selling out of date foodstuff.

The only person who was on the ball was the security guard who turned up within a couple of minutes of pressing the panic alarm. I couldn't get to the panic alarm because I was dragged throughout the house with my arms tied and a gun pressed into me.

I find it really strange that Oscar Pistorius didn't hit the panic button in his bedroom - surely he had a panic button in his bedroom (and he lived in a gated community with 24 hour security just yards away from his house) but took a loaded gun kept underneath his bed and went into 'combat mode'.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience in South Africa aquilla, very traumatizing I'm sure and I can understand why you think this Country is bad. I have lived here for over 20 yrs and love this place,I also use to carry a gun (we had a license). The laws have changed now and we decided to gave our gun license up, we never found any use for it anyway !!! We went back to the UK in 2000 and lived their for 4 yrs, was shocked how everything had changed to how it used to be, we left to come back and have not regretted it at all and are still loving it. What I'm saying is not all experiences are the same !!! Your networking remark making you shocked and sick, I do not understand or have experienced that either, suppose its the company you mixed with !!! Anyway networking is networking no matter which Country it is.......As for Reeva not looking at Oscar if he was not famous...yes I think your right but that also applied to lots of girls not only here in SA, most are the wags in the UK don't you think ?

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