Oscar Pistorius
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Other Crimes and Mysteries :: Other Fake Abductions, Hoaxes, Appeals and Crocodile Tears
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
All the sorry's in the world isn't going to bring Reeva back, her mother didn't look impressed with what he had to say. If he thought yesterday was emotional and upsetting he's got a lot more to go through.
Pistorius Performs - Act 1
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Pistorius Performs - Act 1
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
Exactly CB. No matter how sorry, that young woman will never get to grow old.
I couldn't listen to it more than once, I found it sickening and I also believe that it was very theatrical.
Did he write to Reeva's family apologising before his public apology yesterday? I don't know, but if he didn't I think he should have?
I couldn't listen to it more than once, I found it sickening and I also believe that it was very theatrical.
Did he write to Reeva's family apologising before his public apology yesterday? I don't know, but if he didn't I think he should have?
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From Lazzeri-lies-in-the-sun
I think this deserves a full posting. Some interesting insights into deiberately false testimony about his sister "living close by" when she is actually in the same house . . .
Pistorius Performs - Act 1
Gerrie Nel the Prosecutor pretty much chewed up and spat out the Defence Pathologist! Would have thought Barry Roux would have prepped his witness more thoroughly!
Round 1 this morning definitely to Gerrie Nel!
Up next was Oscar Pistorius.
We had the head in hands, retching, grovelling, snivelling, and oh of course the conniving...all that was missing were the violins...
Oh how he immediately became tearful and stated that he wanted to start his evidence by first making an apology to tender an apology to Mr and Mrs Steenkamp.
"I would like to take this opportunity erm to apologise to erm Mr and Mrs Steenkamp, to Reeva's family, erm to those of you who knew her who are here today....
There has not been a moment since this tragedy happened that I haven’t woke up and thought of your family...."
Blah blah blah, I think you get the picture!
Barry Roux led him through what they had, as we all know rehearsed for many weeks now...born with a disability, legs amputated below the knee. Parents separating when he was 6 years old. Mother re-marrying when he was 14 years old. His mother dying when he was 15 years old. The family not being financially well off. And a couple times at junior school he was bullied. Just like any other kid then!
How his mother kept a gun under her pillow and how on a couple of occasions she had phoned police thinking there may be an intruder, but false alarm. When this happened she took her children to her room beside her. How they didn't live in the best of areas.
All sounds pretty much like what South African life is like for millions, only probably one hell of a lot worse than anything Pistorius, the boy who attended boarding school ever experienced.
Now no one can take from this young man his sporting achievements, it is truly amazing what he faced to become the sports person he is. But that is not what this case is about. He took the life of a young woman, Miss Reeva Steenkamp, and why he did this is what has to be discovered.
Of course Barry Roux will try to paint a picture of the hard done by child, disadvantaged, due to physical disability which he did, only thing was Pistorius, and I don't say this in a derogatory manner, but he was flunking his lines at times he seemed to have forgotten down which path Roux was trying to lead him, or perhaps Roux didn't explain it clearly enough to him beforehand.
On one hand we had Roux the picture he tried to paint was of a mother, terrified at night, keeping a gun under her pillow, and of how this had somehow rubbed off on the young Oscar who then grew up to be paranoid about his personal safety.
Is that not for the most part, life in South Africa?
Yet we also had heard Pistorius to tell the Court of how his mother 'didn't take shit from no one!' And of how she had instilled this in her offspring! He told the story of how his mother was called to school as Pistorius had been fighting. She took no nonsense from teachers and told them not to call her back again she believed in sticking up for oneself.
We could interpret Mrs Pistorius, keeping a gun under her pillow, and keeping her kids close while she phoned police and waited for their arrival, ready to blow the head off anyone who dared walk through her door, as something all mothers would if they lived in SA and truly thought their kids were in danger. Something all mothers would do anywhere in the world if their children were in danger, keep them close, at the ready to protect them no matter what.
Or we could interpret that as some nervous little mother who was paranoid and phoned police repeatedly with false alarms, and that little Oscar grew up just to be like his Mother! Even down to screaming like a girl. Which was not spoken about in today's evidence but it won't be long before that is added to the mix.
But when we listened to Oscar Pistorius he spoke of a mum, who was a woman not to be messed with, that much was clear. A very loving mum, just not to be messed with.
He also spoke of his time at boarding school which he attended with his brother and which he loved and how he made lots friends a great mix of friends, how he had a wonderful mum, soft hearted who loved them, and of close family who he stayed with during school holidays etc.
Sounds like he had a pretty nice life just as it should be for all children, but sadly that's not case.
He also had Pistorius tell of a boating accident where he received serious injury, how when he travels his stumps become painful if he has to wear the prosthetics to travel by plane particularly, how during sport the skin on the stumps can bleed etc etc Oh and that after the boating accident he became even more paranoid about safety....(see where this was going, can't you...) Guy didn't live on a boat though!
We heard how he has no balance when on his stumps, that if his dog bounced into the room it could knock him over, and of how the heel pads on his feet, when his legs were amputated below the knee, were then surgically transplanted onto his stumps. That his left 'knee pad' had since moved round to the back of the stump, limiting his movement (he needs surgery to correct this, but he has never found the time to book hospital appointment for procedure due to athletic commitments)...and we can see where he is going with this one too...the no balance on his stumps, movement, rotation etc etc....
Everything today was much as was to be expected by the Defence...
And Roux, had Pistorius tell the Court of the medication he is prescribed for depression and to help him sleep....Sorry, I would list them but I lost count, gave up on that one...
Oh and of how on an occasion he woke up in a panic, a nightmare about that night, the smell of blood, smell blood, and popped in to cupboard, called his sister, who lives 'close' he said to come sit with him until panic was over. And he said he doesn't want to be around guns any more and that he has a security guy who stays outside his door.
"I don’t want to be around firearms again. I have a security guard who stays outside my door."
Realistically though, where else could Barry Roux go in trying to defend this guy, the only route was to try and portray Pistorius as some poor guy who had a hard life. Somehow I don't think the South African public will buy this...nor anyone else, but when it is all Roux has...
Only one person though who has to 'buy it' and that is the Judge!
That said there was of course someone who appeared to have swallowed it, hook, line and sinker....
Sky News
Reporter
Jeremy Thomson:
Alex, what a morning and you must have seen an awful lot more than us as well?
Alex Crawford:
Well the thing that struck me most was how much his family were affected by this they were all in front of us, literally the row in front of us, his uncle his aunt his cousins, his brother his sister all of them crying feeling terribly upset at listening to his testimony basically detailing just…also how much in pain he and the rest of the family has felt from this, and I think that began early this morning when he was listening to the Defence pathologist outline his…Reeva Steenkamp’s injuries and wounds and we had close up, very very close up pictures of her wounds as well as a detailed description of her injuries, and again we saw him retching in the recess at 11 o'clock around about then. He was sobbing so loudly everyone could hear it in the Court, and his brother and sister again rallied round him as well as one of the team of psychologists I understand who are helping him with therapy and counselling him through this.
And I think the picture you got today was the backbone of the Defence which is, that this is a young man who has not had a normal life, so I’m sure the Defence case will be he didn’t react normally, he had an almost pathological fear of crime and security which started from his mother from his childhood being a little boy sitting on his mother’s bed whilst his mother was calling police and had a fire arm under her own pillow.
So he has grown up, this is the picture the Defence is giving, he has grownup feeling terribly disadvantaged not least because he didn’t have any legs but because he felt terribly vulnerable without his prosthetics on but also in a climate of fear and this I’m sure the Defence will be saying is what led him to react as he did.
And, also his lips were trembling he was struggling to keep his composure as he was addressing June Steenkamp, and he turned away to actually face her, and he said he tried many times to write her a letter to ask her forgiveness and you felt you, this was a man struggling to keep control and again Barry Roux had to say I know you wanted to face June Steenkamp but you have to turn this way so that everyone can hear you. And I think what you felt was that the Pistorious side were absolutely falling apart as they were listening to all this raw pain. June Steenkamp, and the... and that side the Myers, very very close friends and family were very tough putting on this very very strong tough exterior and not breaking down at all. I think there is a lot of anger still there... naturally.
Thomson:
After that Pistorius seemed to settle down seemed to gather his composer after those opening moments but there were more tears shed when I think he smiles when he spoke of his mother who was the biggest influence in his life but then he seemed to be tearful when he remembered finding out she was dying and...
Crawford:
That was a very emotional time, and very emotional for the siblings as well, and the aunts, I mean this is where they were all dissolving into tears as well, talking about as a young boy they were at boarding school he and his brother, and the first they heard about his mother being ill was when she'd already gone into a coma and they rushed to her bedside. I think there is no doubt he relied a lot on his mother and she gave him the moral guidance the moral counselling though his childhood, and he lost her at a very early age, at age 15 and this is obviously still very raw, and perhaps might also explain why the siblings are a so such a tight knit group, as every time there is a break in the Court proceedings Amy his sister literally rushes to his side, it’s almost like she is living through every single pain he is going through!
Thomson:
But he mentioned that didn’t he, in his opening statement, he basically said that she lives on the same property as him and if he has a panic attack in the night he gets into a cupboard and he calls her and she comes to calm him down. I mean it’s been a difficult...
Crawford:
The two of them are living in Uncle Arnold Pistorius house which is a very nice large property in a very upmarket area of Pretoria. They've been looking after Amy since she was a very young child but obviously Oscar has moved back in since all this happened as part of his bail conditions.
And I thought that was very vivid that he wakes up in the middle of the night, talking about smelling blood and feeling so petrified, he has to call for his younger sister who you remember he spent his whole life, he detailed in his autobiography, he spent his whole life protecting his younger sister, and now the situation is reversed, and remember one of the first people he called were his brother and sister. His brother clearly called his sister and they were on the scene gathering things for him, and I think that what the Defence is trying to show that he had so many disadvantages and had so much against him yet he overcame a lot of them them physically but perhaps never overcame his paranoia about security.
END
Yeah, no foolin' Alex, she knows what her pal Barry is up to!
And so sad and very telling, that the thing that struck Alex Crawford most was the distress of the Pistorius family! Unbelievable! Crawford seems blind to the presence of the Steenkamp family, their existence, when she is in Court, reporting on this case.
What is interesting also, is that Pistorius told the Court of how he has trouble sleeping has nightmares about what happened that night, thinks he smells blood, would rather not sleep if it means he has to wake up in this way in a panic. He told of how one night he popped into the cupboard and phoned his sister who lives close, to come sit by him to calm him. Of how he doesn't want to be near firearms again, that he has a security guard outside his door.
Now when I heard that I was puzzled, as my understanding was that bail conditions dictated that he live with his uncle Arnold Pistorius? So I thought perhaps by saying he kept a security guard outside his door, he meant there was a security guard outside the main door of Uncle Arnold's home. Still not sure if this is what he was meaning. Then he spoke of his sister (Amy) who he said lived close, and of how he phoned her to come sit with him when he had panicked and popped into the cupboard. I thought she must live a few blocks away, or a short drive away, as he had said she lived close, that was until I listened to Alex Crawford (and there is nothing she doesn't know about Barry Roux and the Pistorius family, soft spot for them?) and she explained that Amy, the sister, and Oscar Pistorius both live at the home of their uncle Arnold Pistorius!
Seems Amy has lived there since a young child and Oscar Pistorius did too but returned as Crawford said, due to the bail conditions.
She said too that it was a very very large house in a very upmarket area of Pretoria!
Yeah, this guy Pistorius has had a hard life...
So, when Pistorius was phoning his sister, who he said lives close by, I hadn't appreciated just how close, certainly never thought he meant the same house! So how close is she - couple rooms away, or does she live in west wing of their uncle Arnold's home?
And this security guard, who Pistorius said he has posted outside his door (presumably the guy has a firearm which Pistorius doesn't want to be around any more?) Is he talking about outside his bedroom door? The door to a suite of rooms he may have at his uncle's home? Or, is he referring to outside the main door of the very very large house as Alex Crawford has described the property?
Barry Roux has an uphill climb if he wants to win this case by playing the sympathy card - poor little Oscar what a hellish life he has had...it didn't wash today, and I doubt it will tomorrow...
As for the insensitive attempt by Pistorius to gain sympathy by opening his evidence with a very pathetic, public, tearful, hollow apology to the Steenkamp family, and hoping for forgiveness - beggars belief!
Reeva's mum who must be going through the most awful grief and agony never flinched at the performance by Pistorius, this grovelling, snivelling excuse for a man - she showed not a sign that she would ever forgive him for taking from her her beautiful daughter Reeva in what was a most callous and cruel act of violence.
Dignified throughout Court proceedings which must be harrowing for her, she sat steely, not giving Pistorius what he wanted, not a glimmer of insight as to what she was truly thinking of him.
The Judge's reaction, she raises an eyebrow when she hears that Pistorius wants to make an apology to the Steenkamp family
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
There's a lot to digest in this article, PeterMac, but one alleged fact leapt off the page, namely:
We heard how he has no balance when on his stumps, that if his dog bounced into the room it could knock him over,
I don't know the make of the 9mm Pistorious used to kill Reeva, but from the photos I've seen it doesn't look to be a lightweight and if a dog could knock him over by 'bouncing into the room' when he is on his stumps, he would be floored by the recoil from the pistol and would have to right himself everytime he fired at the door.
As for Alex Crawford's account of the proceedings, it's no more than emotional projection whereby the hype is not only created, it's bought into by the writer, and is propogated by them in a manner which fools the gullible into believing they're reading facts, not fiction.
Sadly, there's an awful lot of this sloppy sensationalism about and we've seen how the guilty can not only elicit sympathy from it, they can also hide behind it.
With regard to Pistorius's performance, perhaps a precursor to that of a certain Mr Tiny Tears should defence counsel allow him to take the stand?
We heard how he has no balance when on his stumps, that if his dog bounced into the room it could knock him over,
I don't know the make of the 9mm Pistorious used to kill Reeva, but from the photos I've seen it doesn't look to be a lightweight and if a dog could knock him over by 'bouncing into the room' when he is on his stumps, he would be floored by the recoil from the pistol and would have to right himself everytime he fired at the door.
As for Alex Crawford's account of the proceedings, it's no more than emotional projection whereby the hype is not only created, it's bought into by the writer, and is propogated by them in a manner which fools the gullible into believing they're reading facts, not fiction.
Sadly, there's an awful lot of this sloppy sensationalism about and we've seen how the guilty can not only elicit sympathy from it, they can also hide behind it.
With regard to Pistorius's performance, perhaps a precursor to that of a certain Mr Tiny Tears should defence counsel allow him to take the stand?
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
@PeterMac
I 'd really hate to be a policeman who arrests the right suspect after gathering sufficient and indisputable evidence against said suspect and who then has to attend the performance and SPIN (mummy's fault etc) in court and read the sympathy vote in the press...
Imo nasty things like losing limbs isn't limited to nice people and it doesn't make the nasties nice either.
It just happens to some people, some of whom were never 'nice' to start off with.
I 'd really hate to be a policeman who arrests the right suspect after gathering sufficient and indisputable evidence against said suspect and who then has to attend the performance and SPIN (mummy's fault etc) in court and read the sympathy vote in the press...
Imo nasty things like losing limbs isn't limited to nice people and it doesn't make the nasties nice either.
It just happens to some people, some of whom were never 'nice' to start off with.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
I have sailed the Lord Nelson (Jubilee Sailing trust jst.org.uk )many times, including across the Atlantic in 2000.
I have worked with and crewed with amputees, blind, deaf and people confined to wheelchairs.
The suggestion that having had his low calf amputations at a very early age, he is unstable on his stumps is absolute nonsense. And can be demonstrated as such.
Try it now.
Get down on your knees, and fold your lower legs up, so that only your knees are touching the ground.
you can balance and get around perfectly.
He could also balance well enough to smash a door in with a cricket bat
Why would he tell a LIE ?
I have worked with and crewed with amputees, blind, deaf and people confined to wheelchairs.
The suggestion that having had his low calf amputations at a very early age, he is unstable on his stumps is absolute nonsense. And can be demonstrated as such.
Try it now.
Get down on your knees, and fold your lower legs up, so that only your knees are touching the ground.
you can balance and get around perfectly.
He could also balance well enough to smash a door in with a cricket bat
Why would he tell a LIE ?
Re: Oscar Pistorius
I just looked up the Lord Nelson site, Peter. What a wonderful initiative !
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
@PeterMac ... How rewarding for you to be part of such an amazing intiative and no doubt you have some marvellous tales to tell of your seafaring adventures.
With regard to the exercise you suggest, if I try that one my arthritic knee will ensure one leg stays locked in that position for evermore and I won't need a wooden stump to play Long John Silver...
ps: is your middle name 'Sting' by any chance?
With regard to the exercise you suggest, if I try that one my arthritic knee will ensure one leg stays locked in that position for evermore and I won't need a wooden stump to play Long John Silver...
ps: is your middle name 'Sting' by any chance?
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
ultimaThule wrote:
I don't know the make of the 9mm Pistorious used to kill Reeva, but from the photos I've seen it [color=#000000]doesn't look to be a lightweight and if a dog could knock him over by 'bouncing into the room' when he is on his stumps, he would be floored by the recoil from the pistol and would have to right himself everytime he fired at the door.
In this programme done by US TV, the commentator explained the gun OP used is heavy and deafeningly loud when fired, comparable to decibel of passing train.
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In this clip of CSI Assessment of OP trial, watch the journalist who was given the chance to fire same type of gun OP used and his comments [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Lord Nelson
I love Square rig sailing.
On the Nelson and the Tenacious everyone is the crew.
8 in wheelchairs, 12 disabilities (other) and 20 so-called able bodied, so 1:1 buddied up
4 watches of 10, of whom at any time one will be on galley duty, so 9.
Then permanent crew of professional officers, Master, 1st and 2nd Officer, Bosun, Engineer and deputy, cook, Medical purser, and 2 bosun's mates.
So you are the crew, under the command and detailed instruction of a professional
You (Watch leader like me) allocate the jobs for each task by "ABILITY", not by inability, so sometimes you get a fully fit hefty bloke left over !
And yes, the wheelchairs go aloft,
On the Halifax NS to Amsterdam race one lovely girl with CP climbed every one of the masts to the Royal yard = the TOP. Mid Atlantic
Took her a couple of hours each time as one of her feet had to be lifted from below and placed on the ratline by someone else.
People are defined by what they can do, not by what they can't. And you never help anyone unless they ask.
On the Nelson and the Tenacious everyone is the crew.
8 in wheelchairs, 12 disabilities (other) and 20 so-called able bodied, so 1:1 buddied up
4 watches of 10, of whom at any time one will be on galley duty, so 9.
Then permanent crew of professional officers, Master, 1st and 2nd Officer, Bosun, Engineer and deputy, cook, Medical purser, and 2 bosun's mates.
So you are the crew, under the command and detailed instruction of a professional
You (Watch leader like me) allocate the jobs for each task by "ABILITY", not by inability, so sometimes you get a fully fit hefty bloke left over !
And yes, the wheelchairs go aloft,
On the Halifax NS to Amsterdam race one lovely girl with CP climbed every one of the masts to the Royal yard = the TOP. Mid Atlantic
Took her a couple of hours each time as one of her feet had to be lifted from below and placed on the ratline by someone else.
People are defined by what they can do, not by what they can't. And you never help anyone unless they ask.
He may have just signed his own warrant of imprisonment
Llewelyn Curlewis, S.A.Legal Expert speaking with Sky News Reporter,Jeremy Thomson, commenting on the latest adjournment, and the evidence given by Pistorius in relation to him saying that 'before he knew it he had fired off 4 shots!'
Llewely Curlewis:
“ Exactly, and my concern for the Defence is obviously, the assumption can be made, can be deducted from that, that he acted randomly, even grossly recklessly without having given thought to any other alternatives or possibilities out there.
And, remember I told you, one of the requirements set in our Law with regard to the defence of 'self- defence' that was raised, and which is the bottom line here, is that you must consider other possibilities, and then actually decide which one is the lesser of two evils, and follow that one. Which is obviously in his own version, suggested in his testimony, is not the case.
So that might be the point of departure for Harry (sic) Nel to start cross examination.
It can never be tolerated that you can randomly start firing shots without giving consideration or thought to other possibilities. I mean that is contrary to any basic principal of law, and justice,
Day twenty two now, we haven’t attended to the nitty gritty yet. We started this morning, and then lo' and behold we're back to where we were yesterday afternoon adjournment shortly after lunchtime another hour or two of Court time wasted. All in all so hopefully this won’t be tolerated for much longer I would suspect the Bench will suddenly and seriously consider calling the two legal Counsel into Chambers at least, if not into open Court, and reprimand them, and tell them ‘listen guys let’s go get on with the job.’
END
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
You wonder why his Defence fail to advise him to make the public apology to RS's family much earlier?
Declaring this on day of his testimony would be seen as many as theatrics and disingenuous.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
I have confused myself now... I presume Pistorius will do jailtime even if (I don't know how) he is found 'not guilty' of premeditated killing?
Seeing as it is not in question that he fired the fatal shots, are the charges the equivalent of murder, with a lesser charge of manslaughter? Surely it is not possible that he will be cleared of all charges?
I don't understand the SA justice system and can't believe I have followed this case yet remain unaware of the actual charges!
Seeing as it is not in question that he fired the fatal shots, are the charges the equivalent of murder, with a lesser charge of manslaughter? Surely it is not possible that he will be cleared of all charges?
I don't understand the SA justice system and can't believe I have followed this case yet remain unaware of the actual charges!
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
OJ's simpson lawyer,Robert Shapira's take on the OP case
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worth a watch IMO.
From my interpretation his view on OP's guilt is quite obvious, but being Godfather of lawyers, if he were OP lawyer he will get an OJ's verdict.
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worth a watch IMO.
From my interpretation his view on OP's guilt is quite obvious, but being Godfather of lawyers, if he were OP lawyer he will get an OJ's verdict.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
I did hear last night a reporter say that he gave a written account of what happened on the night to be put before his bail hearing, he didn't have to, but it apparently helped him secure bail.
The reporter said that they had now compared that written account with the account given over the past 2 days and there are already discrepancies noted. Another reporter more or less said that the prosecution will make mince meat of his account and that the distress, vomiting etc. shown so far is nothing compared to what is to come.
I would have thought he is more than capbable of being able to balance on his stumps, as a child he would have had to quickly learn to do so.
The reporter said that they had now compared that written account with the account given over the past 2 days and there are already discrepancies noted. Another reporter more or less said that the prosecution will make mince meat of his account and that the distress, vomiting etc. shown so far is nothing compared to what is to come.
I would have thought he is more than capbable of being able to balance on his stumps, as a child he would have had to quickly learn to do so.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
Today's cross examination is a clear example of why Carter-Ruck, nor any other half decent defence lawyer will EVER allow their clients to go into the witness box.
Ever discrepancy is being taken apart, bit by tiny bit, the exact position of the three legs of the fan is being examined in detail to see if OP went "out onto the balcony" to retrieve it, or simply pulled it inside.
Now think of the curtains wide open and tight shut and whooshing, and you will get the idea.
Ever discrepancy is being taken apart, bit by tiny bit, the exact position of the three legs of the fan is being examined in detail to see if OP went "out onto the balcony" to retrieve it, or simply pulled it inside.
Now think of the curtains wide open and tight shut and whooshing, and you will get the idea.
Walking on stumps
Just out of interest, many amputees have posted video of themselves on You Tube practicing balancing on their stumps.
And these a re late amputees, having to learn the skills within a few weeks of their operation,
(remember Douglas Bader, in Reach for the Sky )
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there are many more.
He was lying.
And these a re late amputees, having to learn the skills within a few weeks of their operation,
(remember Douglas Bader, in Reach for the Sky )
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there are many more.
He was lying.
Re: Oscar Pistorius
I watched both sessions of the trial today. I'm none the wiser as to the outcome. I didn't think Nel did a particularly good job (that's only my opinion). It's a court room drama in front of cameras. I'm left wondering if the trial would be different if it weren't televised.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
They (Mccann's) would get absolutely ripped to shreds in a cross examination. Totally annihilated within minutes.PeterMac wrote:Today's cross examination is a clear example of why Carter-Ruck, nor any other half decent defence lawyer will EVER allow their clients to go into the witness box.
Ever discrepancy is being taken apart, bit by tiny bit, the exact position of the three legs of the fan is being examined in detail to see if OP went "out onto the balcony" to retrieve it, or simply pulled it inside.
Now think of the curtains wide open and tight shut and whooshing, and you will get the idea.
I sincerely hope that day will come!!!
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
PeterMac wrote:Today's cross examination is a clear example of why Carter-Ruck, nor any other half decent defence lawyer will EVER allow their clients to go into the witness box.
Ever discrepancy is being taken apart, bit by tiny bit, the exact position of the three legs of the fan is being examined in detail to see if OP went "out onto the balcony" to retrieve it, or simply pulled it inside.
Now think of the curtains wide open and tight shut and whooshing, and you will get the idea.
I've been following OP's part of the trial since Monday and I've come up with numerous discrepancies myself in OP's statements. Gerrie Nel is eating OP alive and OP will collapse under his scrutiny. As PM says G Nel is delving into every tiny detail in OP's first statement and the discrepancies with his testimony of the past 2 days and he's only about 1% into the questioning.
There was an argument about whether a video should be shown regarding OP shooting at a watermelon and a huge fuss was made about it but I think GNel's idea of showing the video was to bring to the attention of the judge and other people how accurate OP was when shooting at a target.
____________________
Laurie Levenson, Quoted in the Guardian ........
"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"
Newintown- Posts : 1597
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
plebgate wrote:I did hear last night a reporter say that he gave a written account of what happened on the night to be put before his bail hearing, he didn't have to, but it apparently helped him secure bail.
The reporter said that they had now compared that written account with the account given over the past 2 days and there are already discrepancies noted. Another reporter more or less said that the prosecution will make mince meat of his account and that the distress, vomiting etc. shown so far is nothing compared to what is to come.
I would have thought he is more than capbable of being able to balance on his stumps, as a child he would have had to quickly learn to do so.
According to the lawyer or lawyers, Robert Shapira, OP had to give the affidavit else he won't obtain bail, that's his bail condition. And that (the affidavit) is what condemns him to have to defend himself. He had to, no choice about it since he'd made an affidavit. The alternative of not securing bail release is to spend time in custody until the trial date which means spending a year in jail.
As is during bail tenure he was at liberty to prepare with his lawyers, yet when it comes to the crunch he goofed it up.
He appears nervous and not well rehearsed, over playing the emotion/sympathy card instead of concentrating on keeping his recount simple. His account was full of holes. The more he said the more discrepancies. Either his lawyer did not prepare him well with a script or he did not heed advice.
By contrast the defendants of the hacking trial were very well rehearsed like memorizing from scripts and their (Mr & Mrs Brooks, Cheryl Carter & the Security chief) stories were synchronized too. They were calm collected and too confident, to the point of cockiness in fact whereas OP was just a nervous wreck.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
He had woken up in the early hours of February 14 2013 and noticed that Steenkamp was also awake.
“She rolled over to me and I said, ‘Can’t you sleep, my baba?’,” he said.
She replied that she could not and he had gone and moved fans and was about to place a pair of jeans over an amplifier light when he heard what sounded like a bathroom window opening.
“That’s the moment that everything changed. I thought that there was a burglar that was gaining entry to my home.”
‘I needed to arm myself, that I needed to protect Reeva’
He said he immediately thought someone could be there at any moment.
The first thing he thought was: “… I needed to arm myself, that I needed to protect Reeva and that I needed to get my gun.”
“I heard a noise from inside the toilet which I perceived to be someone inside the toilet. I fired four shots into the door and shouted for Reeva to phone the police,” he testified to questioning by his lawyer Barry Roux.
He described how in the moments leading up to the shooting, he crept down the passage from his bedroom on his stumps, his gun in his right hand, steadying himself against the wall with his left.
As he got to the entrance of the bathroom, he shouted for Steenkamp to call the police. He believed she was still in bed.
“I wasn’t sure if someone was going to come up the ladder or out of the toilet and attack me,” he said, crying.
He testified he heard his first floor bathroom window sliding open.
Workmen who had been busy fixing up his house had placed ladders on the ground underneath it.
After he fired, he retreated back into his bedroom, his ears ringing from the shots.
Pistorius is accused of murdering Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse.
He is also charged with contravening the Firearms Control Act.
He allegedly fired a shot from a Glock pistol under a table at a Johannesburg restaurant in January 2013. On September 30, 2012 he allegedly shot through the open sunroof of a car with his 9mm pistol while driving with friends in Modderfontein.
The athlete has also pleaded guilty on these two charges.
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That's why defendant must never go near the stand.
He'd given prosecutor a lot of ammunitions but NEl style of attack I don't understand.
Why not ask him when he shouted to Reeva (not just once but a few times) why did he not wait for her reply.
He said: He felt the bed, she wasn't there, he felt the floor, she wasn't there, then he felt behind the curtains in case she was hiding there....Good God ! Should have been a field day for the Prosecutor.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
1.40pm: The prosecution is asking Pistorius how it is possible that he did not see Steenkamp get out of bed to go to the toilet on the night of the shooting. Pistorius describes how he woke up, took two fans in from the balcony and shut the doors and curtains. Nel asks if it is not “strange” that he failed to see Steenkamp. “It was pitch black and it was behind me so it is not strange at all,” says Pistorius. He suggests that without his legs, he was also at a height where the fans were blowing near his face.
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Says he couldn't see her going into the toilet because it was dark....yeah right !
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Pistorius - v - McCann
This says it better that I could, at this time in the morning. The parallels have been striking me, regularly, over the past few days.
Many thanks to whoever writes it.Pistorius & McCann
So much in common in these two cases.
We have imaginary intruders, patio doors, curtains, police being accused of this and that.
Pistorius today accusing police of tampering with cooling fans, opening bedroom curtains wider than he'd left them, and of changing position of the patio doors...
The leading males in each case, one arrogant as the other, controlling individuals, evasive, unco-operative, demanding, attention seeking, prone to temper tantrums not prepared to accept responsibility for their actions, blaming others, anyone at at all as long as blame is not placed at their door, self centred beyond belief or understanding - 'Me Men'
What was interesting today in the Pistorius case, Gerrie Nel the Prosecutor cross examining Pistorius asked him about the incident where witnesses had said Pistorius had fired his gun into the air while out in the car for a drive.
Pistorius of course denies this. Said the two State witnesses who testified to this are lying. In fact, Pistorius has stated that everyone who has testified thus far has lied, even Miss Steenkamp in her email where she said she feared him. He later changed this to she was exaggerating!
The guy has no shame!
The McCanns too, pooh, pooh witnesses if what they have stated is not to their liking!
But it is what Gerrie Nel the Prosecutor put to Pistorius that was interesting.
Pistorius said he does not remember firing the gun into the air. Nel said well that's funny because two independent witnesses said you did. That is the point at which Pistorius begun one of his long winded responses telling the Court how these two persons had lied had gotten together and lied.
Gerrie Nel tells him that too is funny, as Pistorius had said that the two witnesses had given different versions, but each agreeing Pistorius had fired the gun. As Nel pointed out, had there been a conspiracy, their stories would have matched completely so to speak.
What Nel put to Pistorius was - that as he cannot remember if he fired the gun, this does not mean then that he did not do so! (Remember, Pistorius has selective memory (like others we know) when a question is awkward, his memory fails) Nel put it to him that as he cannot remember, and as there are two State witnesses (with no reason to lie) that the Court would then accept that Pistorius did in fact fire that gun as they had testified. Two against one so to speak.
Which brings me to McCann.
Jez Wilkins and Jane Tanner said they both saw Gerry McCann on the side of the street where Apartment 5A was located. McCann said he doesn't remember for sure (just like Pistorius) but his recollection is that it was on the opposite side of the street.
McCann and Pistorius both expecting their versions to be believed before that of, in each case - two other witnesses.
Would be interesting to see how the Gerry McCann (and his other half) would perform if ever they were to appear in a Court of Law in connection with the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine?
l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com
10th April 2014
Re: Oscar Pistorius
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Prosecutor taking him through the event on the night....OMG the Prosecutor is Brilliant!
OP lied, he talked too much and dug himself under.
Prosecutor knew he never brought in the fan/s, closed the sliding doors or drawn the curtains before or after the killing
The bedroom scene as found and photographed was the way it was before the crime took place.
State claimed the couple argued she screamed fled to the toilet and he followed her ......
OP concocted a story to fit the crime scene
He accused Police of contaminating, tampering and disturbing the scene ( Prosecutor suggested did he mean Police conspired against him) he was so transparent when he kept adjusting his story under cross examination. The Prosecutor saw right through him.
My jaw dropped when it became obvious where the Prosecutor was going with his case...
His closing summary would be interesting......
Prosecutor taking him through the event on the night....OMG the Prosecutor is Brilliant!
OP lied, he talked too much and dug himself under.
Prosecutor knew he never brought in the fan/s, closed the sliding doors or drawn the curtains before or after the killing
The bedroom scene as found and photographed was the way it was before the crime took place.
State claimed the couple argued she screamed fled to the toilet and he followed her ......
OP concocted a story to fit the crime scene
He accused Police of contaminating, tampering and disturbing the scene ( Prosecutor suggested did he mean Police conspired against him) he was so transparent when he kept adjusting his story under cross examination. The Prosecutor saw right through him.
My jaw dropped when it became obvious where the Prosecutor was going with his case...
His closing summary would be interesting......
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
aiyoyo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Prosecutor taking him through the event on the night....OMG the Prosecutor is Brilliant!
OP lied, he talked too much and dug himself under.
Prosecutor knew he never brought in the fan/s, closed the sliding doors or drawn the curtains before or after the killing
The bedroom scene as found and photographed was the way it was before the crime took place.
State claimed the couple argued she screamed fled to the toilet and he followed her ......
OP concocted a story to fit the crime scene
He accused Police of contaminating, tampering and disturbing the scene ( Prosecutor suggested did he mean Police conspired against him) he was so transparent when he kept adjusting his story under cross examination. The Prosecutor saw right through him.
My jaw dropped when it became obvious where the Prosecutor was going with his case...
His closing summary would be interesting......
This is what the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt and it will be difficult, why Nel trying to destroy OP credibility and paint him as an arrogant spoilt brat.
Arrogant, spoilt, does not a murderer make. Police must have tested the light conditions in the room with the curtains closed at that time of night/early morning. Has any ref been made to how dark it gets in there?
Has anyone given any thought to why a young handsome man, feted for his athletic brilliance while disabled, might wish for darkness when he is possibly very aware of how unmanly he looks to a young woman , on his stumps? The pair of them in their texts come across as immature teens and they show all the hallmarks of insecurity and drama that comes with young love.
Too many on social media have found OP guilty of killing with intent based on his portrayal in the SA media, why I have left the debate and will not post more than this here.
The recklessness and negligence with guns is beyond doubt, he is guilty of a culpable homicide, which will imo be the verdict unless OP breaks and tells the truth if he is lying.
OP is immature and emotionally fragile and I do not think based on what I have read or heard that he is a cold hearted killer. He has possibly committed a crime of passion during a heated row and as a young immature man facing himself in a mirror is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that he has taken a life. He will if guilty and if x- examined hard enough, not be emotionally strong enough to withstand an onslaught and will give a true account of events. There are too many on twitter saying he was an abusive partner, where is the evidence for abuse? If this is a murder it is probably a crime of passion an if found guilty he will be in prison for a long time. His vomiting and anguish are not fake imo... you cant make yourself vomit at will. I would imagine he is exhausted, worried for his future, full of guilt and remorse over what has happened, a confusing mix.
So long as a reasonable doubt remains the judge will not find intent.
OP does not have the cunning or fortitude to withstand and outmanoeuvre Nel if he is guilty of murder imo. Nel has calmed down somewhat thankfully, his theatrics for the media were a bad strategy the first day.
The judge will apply the law and I am confident that she will bring in the correct verdict.
She is now asking OP to be sure if he is making mistakes on the stand in his responses because he is tired, to be fair to him as he will be at a disadvantage, also to be fair to the court. He has replied that he is tired but that is not why he is making errors.
Give him a little credit for choosing to remain on the stand rather than take the break Nel and the judge would probably insist on, Nel having told OP he does not want to hear any more responses " I made a mistake because I am tired."
OP has been on the stand approx. 30 minutes. He sounds stressed and exhausted. This does not mean he murdered RS. It must be an ordeal to be young and facing a man like Nel, guilty or not with the world's eyes and ears on you.
Roux should have told his client to pay attention to the qs, make sure to answer the qs and say no more.
Hope this ends soon. What an ordeal for RS family and I also feel for OP family, having to come to terms with the fact he has killed someone. I hope for justice and am confident the judge's decision and sentencing will be fair.
eta on what I have read and heard so far, an implausible but not impossible account of events re intruders. I tend towards a blazing row and a crime of passion, but until all evidence in and all witnesses heard, there is reasonable doubt in my mind. I believe there is a probability OP will be found guilty of a culpable/reckless homicide, not murder.
____________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
If you are even cross examined the only sensible replies are
"Yes, Sir."
"No, Sir"
"I am sorry, Sir I cannot remember."
OP is a gift to his own prosecution, just as G&KM, and the Tapas group were in their rogatories.
They have provided the prosecution with all the important questions
"Yes, Sir."
"No, Sir"
"I am sorry, Sir I cannot remember."
OP is a gift to his own prosecution, just as G&KM, and the Tapas group were in their rogatories.
They have provided the prosecution with all the important questions
Re: Oscar Pistorius
PeterMac wrote:If you are even cross examined the only sensible replies are
"Yes, Sir."
"No, Sir"
"I am sorry, Sir I cannot remember."
OP is a gift to his own prosecution, just as G&KM, and the Tapas group were in their rogatories.
They have provided the prosecution with all the important questions
OP hang himself by his long winded twisting and turning replies, and the Prosecutor helped him tighten the noose using his answers.
aiyoyo- Posts : 9610
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
Oscar isn't doing well today.
He really let himself down by saying he was tired and being questioned on that by the judge was not good.
He really let himself down by saying he was tired and being questioned on that by the judge was not good.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius
PeterMac wrote:This says it better that I could, at this time in the morning. The parallels have been striking me, regularly, over the past few days.Many thanks to whoever writes it.Pistorius & McCann
So much in common in these two cases.
We have imaginary intruders, patio doors, curtains, police being accused of this and that.
Pistorius today accusing police of tampering with cooling fans, opening bedroom curtains wider than he'd left them, and of changing position of the patio doors...
The leading males in each case, one arrogant as the other, controlling individuals, evasive, unco-operative, demanding, attention seeking, prone to temper tantrums not prepared to accept responsibility for their actions, blaming others, anyone at at all as long as blame is not placed at their door, self centred beyond belief or understanding - 'Me Men'
What was interesting today in the Pistorius case, Gerrie Nel the Prosecutor cross examining Pistorius asked him about the incident where witnesses had said Pistorius had fired his gun into the air while out in the car for a drive.
Pistorius of course denies this. Said the two State witnesses who testified to this are lying. In fact, Pistorius has stated that everyone who has testified thus far has lied, even Miss Steenkamp in her email where she said she feared him. He later changed this to she was exaggerating!
The guy has no shame!
The McCanns too, pooh, pooh witnesses if what they have stated is not to their liking!
But it is what Gerrie Nel the Prosecutor put to Pistorius that was interesting.
Pistorius said he does not remember firing the gun into the air. Nel said well that's funny because two independent witnesses said you did. That is the point at which Pistorius begun one of his long winded responses telling the Court how these two persons had lied had gotten together and lied.
Gerrie Nel tells him that too is funny, as Pistorius had said that the two witnesses had given different versions, but each agreeing Pistorius had fired the gun. As Nel pointed out, had there been a conspiracy, their stories would have matched completely so to speak.
What Nel put to Pistorius was - that as he cannot remember if he fired the gun, this does not mean then that he did not do so! (Remember, Pistorius has selective memory (like others we know) when a question is awkward, his memory fails) Nel put it to him that as he cannot remember, and as there are two State witnesses (with no reason to lie) that the Court would then accept that Pistorius did in fact fire that gun as they had testified. Two against one so to speak.
Which brings me to McCann.
Jez Wilkins and Jane Tanner said they both saw Gerry McCann on the side of the street where Apartment 5A was located. McCann said he doesn't remember for sure (just like Pistorius) but his recollection is that it was on the opposite side of the street.
McCann and Pistorius both expecting their versions to be believed before that of, in each case - two other witnesses.
Would be interesting to see how the Gerry McCann (and his other half) would perform if ever they were to appear in a Court of Law in connection with the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine?
l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com
10th April 2014
I've been following OP's trial on Sky News each morning and it has really shocked me as to how similar his accounts are to the McCanns accounts of what happened. It's as if they've all had a meeting and compared notes.
I only had 4 hours sleep last night but had to get up this morning to watch the start of the ongoing saga of OP getting himself into more doo doo, he's really not doing himself any favours.
____________________
Laurie Levenson, Quoted in the Guardian ........
"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Other Crimes and Mysteries :: Other Fake Abductions, Hoaxes, Appeals and Crocodile Tears
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