Re: Oscar Pistorius

by Guest 02.03.14 16:58

ultimaThule wrote:'Poor' McCanns, parapono? On the contrary, one dead child = 2 extremely rich parents who will no doubt produce more 'expert witnesses' at their trial for murder than those Pistorius has pulled out of the hat for his.

Sorry uT, should have picked another adjective.

Back to Pistorius, imo the guy is as guilty as hell.
Only one life was ended,
hers.

I am sad about that.

parapono

by plebgate 02.03.14 19:08

lj wrote:
aquila wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Trial starts tomorrow. Interesting video on link below.

Forensic evidence will play a major part in the murder trial of paralympian Oscar Pistorius which begins tomorrow and will be broadcast live around the world.

The double-amputee athlete has always insisted he and model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp had had a quiet night in together at his house, a closely guarded compound in Pretoria.

He claims he got up in the early hours to bring in a fan from the balcony. But when he went back into the bedroom again, in the pitch dark, he says he heard a noise.

Believed there was an intruder in the house, he says he grabbed a 9mm pistol that he kept under his bed that he kept for security purposes and ran down the passageway leading to the bathroom, without his prosthetic legs on.

Exclusive: the room where Reeva Steenkamp was fatally shot
The bloody bathroom where Pistorius shot Ms Steenkamp

There he fired four shots into the toilet door, which was closed. He insists it was only when he went back into the bedroom and realised his girlfriend was not in bed that it dawned on him it was her in the toilet.

Pictures inside the house show a trail of blood from the bathroom as the paralympian carried Ms Steenkamp downstairs after shouting for help, with flecks of blood on the wall, on the sofa downstairs and on the landing.

The case is likely to hinge on forensic evidence, with specialists for both the defence and prosecution trying to glean everything they can from the site of the shooting.

Forensic evidence will play a crucial part in the Pistorius trial
Ballistics expert JC de Klerk speaks to Sky's Alex Crawford

Ballistics expert JC de Klerk has told Sky News how every shot fired will have left a trail.

"The trajectory of bullets through the door will give an indication of where the firearm must have been held," he said.

Forensic experts say every drop of blood can help show what happened, and whether Ms Steenkamp was sitting, standing or moving at the time she was shot.

Pistorius insists he was "deeply in love" with Ms Steenkamp, who he had been dating for just a few months.

Reeva Steenkamp with Oscar Pistorius
Pistorius says he loved Ms Steenkamp

When the world's best-known paralympian appeared at Pretoria Magistrates' Court during a bail application hearing, he said when he realised his mistake he did everything to save his lover, battering the toilet door with a cricket bat to get to her.

During the trial, science and forensics will help build a picture of what happened, and it will be down to a judge to decide whether the death of Ms Steenkamp was a tragic accident or murder.

Pistorius

:: Sky News will have live coverage of the trial from Monday, with a special highlights programme at 9.30pm

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Firing a warning shot to a suspected intruder who can't be seen let's them know you have a gun. Firing four shots through a closed door into a small toilet is going to be very difficult to explain.

I doubt (and it's only my opinion) that Reeva didn't scream at the first shot.

On the other side you are taught that when you have to shoot to shoot for complete disablement, iow your adversary should not be able to get back at you. I understand that neighbors heard screams between the shots. Also the guard is said to have called after the shooting and Pistorius allegedly said "everything was fine". So it all looks a bit fishy.

ETA: it is such a sad case: 2 young lives annihilated.

Yes I heard that reported on Sky News last week and that several neighbours have given written statements to that effect. Presumably they will be called as witnesses.

by ultimaThule 02.03.14 19:14

Theres no need whatsoever for you to apologise to me, parapono.

My gut feeling about Pistorius, together with my sentiments about the horrific death of Reeva Steenkamp, are in complete accordance with yours and I can only hope that justice will be done in this case.

by Liz Eagles 02.03.14 20:43

Oscar Pistorius 'reaches out-of-court settlement' with woman who accused him of assault after he 'slammed and broke a door at a party'

[size=18.2]Cassidy Taylor-Memmory, 24, claims Pistorius injured her at party in 2009[/size]
[size=18.2]She says a door fell on her leg when he punched it after fight with girlfriend[/size]
[size=18.2]The parties have settled out of court after four-year legal battle[/size]
[size=18.2]Oscar Pistorius will stand trial for murder of Reeva Steenkamp on March 3[/size]

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He does seem to have a bit of a temper.

by Guest 03.03.14 12:05

Live feed from trial here...

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Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky

#OscarPistorius Witness says after the screams, she heard four shots. 'Bang(long pause).bang...(shorter pause), bang (shorter pause), bang'

Oliver Leach

@SkyLeacho

#OscarPistorius Witness Burger says heard shots. Longer time delay between 1st and 2nd shots than btwn 2nd and 3rd.

Pistorius' neighbour, Michell Burger: "My husband returned from the balcony and I was still sitting in bed. Then I told my husband that 'I do not hope that woman saw her husband being shot in front of her'

Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky

#OscarPistorius Burger; '..v traumatic. U cd hear blood curdling screams. U can't translate into words..the anxiousness in her voice + fear'

by sallypelt 03.03.14 12:12

There's also a live feed to the trial. Here is the link for anyone who wants to follow the trial in real time:

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Oops, I should learn to read earlier posts. Candy has already posted a live feed, so my apologies, Candy. However, there's no harm in following another.

by Guest 03.03.14 12:14

candyfloss wrote:Live feed from trial here...

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Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky

#OscarPistorius Witness says after the screams, she heard four shots. 'Bang(long pause).bang...(shorter pause), bang (shorter pause), bang'

Oliver Leach

@SkyLeacho

#OscarPistorius Witness Burger says heard shots. Longer time delay between 1st and 2nd shots than btwn 2nd and 3rd.

Pistorius' neighbour, Michell Burger: "My husband returned from the balcony and I was still sitting in bed. Then I told my husband that 'I do not hope that woman saw her husband being shot in front of her'

Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky

#OscarPistorius Burger; '..v traumatic. U cd hear blood curdling screams. U can't translate into words..the anxiousness in her voice + fear'

Also as above at Sky

by lj 03.03.14 14:56

Parapono, I understand what you are saying.
I do feel sad though for all those young celebrities spinning out of control. I do believe that as a society we are part of the problem. That is the difference with the McCanns.

by Guest 04.03.14 16:56

Pistorius neighbour 'heard fight'

A second witness at the murder trial of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius has told a court in the capital Pretoria she was awoken by the sounds of a fight early on 14 February 2013.

Mr Pistorius has pleaded not guilty to intentionally killing his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

He shot dead the 29-year-old model and reality TV star at his home, saying he mistook her for an intruder.

Estelle Van Der Merwe, a neighbour, said the row had lasted about an hour.

BBC News, Pretoria

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well into day two of the trial, and a second witness, and another neighbour of Oscar Pistorius, has told the court about a commotion she heard in the early hours of the morning of the day Reeva Steenkamp was killed.

It is still early days, but this the state's argument that Mr Pistorius and her girlfriend of three months had had a terrible row before she died - a version of events the athlete denies.

There are grey skies over Pretoria and it has rained all morning, so unlike the first day of the trial, there are no dancing crowds outside court. There is still much interest in case of the "blade runner". However, as one woman outside court told me: "Everything that is happening today is not going to change anything, the fact is that poor girl is never coming back."

Eyes of the world on a fallen hero

"It seemed like somebody was involved in a fight," said Ms Van Der Merwe, who lives in the same gated Pretoria housing estate as the Paralympic athlete. "People were talking in loud voices."

The argument woke her at about 01:56 local time (23:56 GMT) and lasted about an hour. After that, she heard four loud sounds in succession.

Ms Van Der Merwe was the second witness to take the stand at the murder trial of Mr Pistorius, which began at the high court in on Monday.

The arrest of the 27-year-old double amputee and gold medal winner astounded South Africa.

'Screams'

For the first time in South Africa, parts of the trial are being televised live, although some witness testimony, including that of Ms Van Der Merwe, is being excluded from TV broadcasts.

However, the audio of the entire trial is being aired.

Mrs Van Der Merwe said she had been irritated by the noise of the argument and placed a pillow on her head "in hope of falling asleep again".

Oscar Pistorius blocks his ears inside the high court on the second day of his trial in Pretoria, South Africa, Tuesday, 4 March 2014 Oscar Pistorius blocks his ears as he concentrates on his notes on the second day of the trial Oscar Pistorius, (centre left), leave the high court amid a scrum after the second day of his trial in Pretoria, South Africa - 4 March 2014 There is intense media interest in the trial
South African Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp pictured in December 2012 The country was stunned when the athlete shot dead his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp
Tuesday's hearing adjourned not long after the third witness, Charl Peter Johnson - husband to the first witness Michelle Burger - had taken the stand.

The second day of the trial began with defence lawyer Barry Roux quizzing Ms Burger about her account of hearing a woman's screams, a man calling for help and then four gunshots.

The BBC's Andrew Harding in court says the defence line was clear that as Ms Steenkamp was in a closed toilet with a closed window, the screams the witness said she heard could not have come from her.

Mr Pistorius was in the bathroom where the window was open so the screams must have come from him.

Mr Roux also suggested expert evidence would prove that Ms Steenkamp would have been unable to scream between shots.

When details of the bullets hitting her head were read out, Mr Pistorius's head dropped into his hands, our correspondent says.

At the start of proceedings on Monday, Mr Roux read out a statement from the athlete, giving his version of events of how Ms Steenkamp had died, saying he believed his girlfriend was in bed when he shot at the toilet door.

State prosecutors say Mr Pistorius planned the killing and shot Ms Steenkamp after a row.

Estelle Van Der Merwe, neighbour: "I heard sounds, it seemed like somebody was involved in a fight"

If found guilty of premeditated murder, he could face life imprisonment.

He has also denied charges of illegally possessing ammunition.

There are no juries at trials in South Africa, and his fate will ultimately be decided by Judge Thokozile Masipa.

Much of the case will depend on ballistic evidence from the scene of the shooting, correspondents say

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by aiyoyo 11.03.14 8:17

T

he BBC's Andrew Harding in court says the defence line was clear that as Ms Steenkamp was in a closed toilet with a closed window, the screams the witness said she heard could not have come from her.

Mr Pistorius was in the bathroom where the window was open so the screams must have come from him.

Why would burglar climb through open bathroom window only to go and lock himself inside the tiny toilet cubicle (with no escape route)?

Defense counsel tried to argue that neighbour could not have heard gun shots from their home, instead suggesting they could have heard cricket bat - self goal that!
Screams followed by gun shots were heard coming from the house, who's to know where screams took place.
Roux labouring this closed window angle is pretty banal as no open window = no burlgar.

How odd OP did not mention Baba - first point of outside help - in his affidavit, yet Roux did not dispute Babas exchange with OP; he was trying to haggle with Baba's version.

by aiyoyo 11.03.14 8:27

Prof Saayman also said that the vegetable matter food found in her stomach was likely to have been ingested within two hours of her death at 3am, which appears to contradict Pistorius’s claim that the couple went to bed at around 10pm.

OOPs, who's caught out lying?
I would like to see how Roux will argue against Post Mortem evidence.
I would also like to see him demonstrate how OP can scream like a woman.
I can't wait for OP to take the stand.

by **PeterMac** 11.03.14 9:03

I will post it, as it has strange resonances

It’s now almost 7 days since the commencement of the Pistorius trial.

If we are to believe that Oscar Pistorius is being truthful has told thus far the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it is to believe that the witnesses thus far in this case have all lied, or as his defence counsel has suggested, that the witnesses:

(a) Did not hear Miss Steenkamp and Pistorius argue/raised voices.
(b) Did not hear Miss Steenkamp scream in fear, that what they heard was Pistorius screaming like girl (something he might do if found guilty of murdering Miss Steenkamp)
(c) Did not hear the sound of gunshots, that what they heard was the sound of a cricket bat being bashed against a door (funny that as the defence has also suggested that some witnesses were too far away to have heard sound of gunshots but not too far off to hear a cricket bat against a door?)
and
(d) That he, Pistorius thought there was an intruder, a burglar who, had come in through a window.
(e) That Pistorius on this night, the night he shot and killed Miss Steenkamp changed the nightly routine which he normally followed in respect of where he kept his mobile phone, his handgun and a most important factor on which side of the bed he slept!

Almost 7 years since the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
If we are to believe that her parents the Doctors McCann and their holiday companions have been truthful, that thus far they have told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it is to believe, that anything any witness has said must be treated according to their spokesperson, Clarence Mitchell as ‘ludicrous/lies'  it is to believe what they the McCanns have suggested:

(a) That an upstairs neighbour did not hear the McCann children cry on any night.
(b) That there had been an intruder/a burglar who had come in through a window.
(c) That they changed sleeping arrangements the night previously with Kate McCann sleeping in the children’s room.
(d) That they changed routine on the night the child vanished – that is in respect of which doors they entered/exited the apartment, the regularity of their checks of children.
(e) And of course the biggie - two of their companions, also doctors, making their debut on that night also, one the now infamous Dr Payne paying a visit to Kate McCann and her children, and the equally infamous Dr Oldfield he too popped in to check on McCann children.

How come?
Why did they all suddenly want to check on the McCann kids?
No one checked on anyone else’s kids all week long.

The McCanns NEVER checked on anyone’s kids at all, not even to listen at the shuttered windows of the apartments of their companions – which they had to pass, and up close, on the way to their own apartment.   Yet on the night Madeleine vanished, the McCann apartment became like Grand Central!
McCanns want the world to believe they changed routine on the night their daughter vanished that there was an intruder/burglar. (The evidence gathered during police investigation points to the child having died in the apartment, possibly the result of a tragic accident, possibly at a time when the child and her siblings were left alone, no responsible adult in attendance to care for them.)

Oscar Pistorius wants the world and the Court to believe that he changed routine on the night he shot and killed Miss Reeva Steenkamp (witness testimony of an ex girlfriend during the trial contradicts absolutely his version) He wants the world to believe that he thought there was an intruder/a burglar in his home and that he thought he was shooting this burglar.
The Court in South Africa will hopefully get to the truth of the statements given by Oscar Pistorius. The parents of Miss Reeva Steenkamp deserve no less than to see justice served for the loss of a much loved daughter. To see her killer, Oscar Pistorius, if found guilty of murder, punished according to the law of their land.

Hopefully one day a Court in Portugal will get to the truth of the statements given by the McCann parents the parents of this missing child, parents who together with their companions, refused to help Madeleine, refused to take part in a reconstruction of events refused to assist police with this. The McCann twins, Madeleine's brother and sister deserve no less than to hear the truth, to see justice served, the perpetrators of the crimes committed against their sister punished.
For now though justice for young Madeleine McCann seems a long way off, and the performance of Scotland Yard has done nothing to change that. Perhaps hindered!

Almost 7 years now since her disappearance, and no sign as yet of her parents and their companions seeing the inside of a Court.
No sign of any one of them doing the decent thing and giving explanation as to why their stories do not add up!
No sign of any one of them putting Madeleine, her siblings, Sean and Amelie before all else. Amelie and Sean are the ones who will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. They are the ones who most need to know the truth of what became of their sister.

Their parents telling them of bad men, monsters having taken Madeleine may solve the parents problem short term when the children are young, but that will not always be the case. These kids will already be asking some very uncomfortable questions. Questions, answers to which (and when they are ready) they will be able to find in the online police files, where they will be able to identify the inconsistencies in the stories told by their parents and their holiday companions. Video footage too of the interviews their parents have given, containing information, detail which is not consistent not only with their police witness statements, but inconsistent, interview to interview.

No sign of the Metropolitan Police requesting that the McCann holiday group take part in a police criminal style reconstruction of events of the night the little girl mysteriously vanished which would allow for these very same inconsistencies in the stories told by the group to be addressed, and of which there are many!
One has to wonder why this was not one of the first steps taken by Scotland Yard.

Of course in October 2013 Crimewatch served up a reconstruction where the public were presented with nothing short of a fairy tale account of the events of the night Madeleine vanished.

This production was not a truthful account of events according to the police witness statements given by this group of people (read online police files on Madeleine McCann case) DCI Andy Redwood of Metropolitan Police knows that it was not a truthful account.   And so too, do the McCanns and their holiday companions!
So where does that leave the Scotland Yard investigation into this child’s disappearance when what they allowed to be presented to the public was not an honest account?
Where does that leave justice for young Madeleine when still her parents and their holiday companions have not participated in any reconstruction? Further away than ever?

Both Miss Reeva Steenkamp and the little girl Madeleine Beth McCann, had their young lives cut short by the in/direct irresponsible, callous and cruel actions of persons close to them, persons who claim to have loved them.
Oscar Pistorius is directly responsible for the death of Miss Steenkamp.
Gerry and Kate McCann indirectly (possibly directly) responsible for the disappearance and possible death of Madeleine!

Just as in the Pistorius case where there is only his word as to what happened on the night he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp. In the McCann case there is only the word of Gerry and Kate McCann that their daughter was abducted.
There is no evidence that Madeleine McCann was abducted, and never has been!

In both cases, no burglar who came in through a window!

by Liz Eagles 11.03.14 19:52

Sneakily dropped in whilst the Pistorius trial is on a world platform is a message from Zuma to announce how marvelous things are in South Africa.

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by aiyoyo 11.03.14 20:08

RS last meal was disputed by Roux using academic (research) argument vs Pathologist 30 years of experience and 10,000-15,000 case controls. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 11.03.14 21:14

Maybe a post mortem of little Maddie was to be avoided because of something she had ingested?

by aiyoyo 12.03.14 20:38

Portia wrote:Maybe a post mortem of little Maddie was to be avoided because of something she had ingested?

Exactly! Therefore they'd to dispose of it to avoid autopsy.

by Guest 12.03.14 20:59

Ingestion of substance, sedation, accident, abuse ... whatever ... an autopsy had to be avoided IMO ...

by Guest 12.03.14 21:04

Leaving aside for a moment the sad fate of this sunny small child: how hard it must be for anyone in the know as to what befell her, to be awaiting, day in day out, the knock on the door and the "Hello Sir, could we have a quiet word please?"

by **PeterMac** 12.03.14 22:36

Let us never forget, in a world that has issues with South Africa and its ability to become a "Rainbow Nation," or to get itself sorted out (In Plain english)
That in this trial
A white man
accused of murdering a white woman
when most of the leading lawyers are white, though there are many juniors behind them who are black
but the Judge.
the person who will make the final decision about whether he is guilty or not
and who will then decide his sentence

IS A BLACK WOMAN.
And he addresses her as "My Lady" !

There is a chance (slim, but still there) that South Africa can turn itself into a civilised nation.

by Liz Eagles 13.03.14 11:53

@PeterMac,

'One swallow does not a summer make' springs to mind.

Zuma has slipped in a nice little announcement/statistics to say that crime has reduced since 1994. He's recently attended the wedding of one of Mugabe's family. He's built a place for himself (Nkandla) that is such an insult to his own people (never mind the white people who are the main taxpayers and continue to be). There's also the private jet (has it been purchased?), the many wives, the having a shower after sex can combat HIV.

There's HIV at incredible levels. I assume the rest of the world pays for the amount of drugs that are pumped into the black population because it's free.

The level of violence in crimes is beyond savage. Rape, the rape of children, beatings, armed robberies, abject poverty, lack of sanitation, lack of education (schools paid for by overseas funding that have no books), extreme corruption in government and the police, just to name a few things.

So, having a worldwide trial is a Godsend for Zuma. Next up is the Dewani case.

Here is a big addition. Zuma is able to pardon criminals. Yessiree, he can give a presidential pardon to a criminal.

What does that tell you about justice in South Africa?

by brixham 13.03.14 12:23

PeterMac wrote:I will post it, as it has strange resonances
It’s now almost 7 days since the commencement of the Pistorius trial.

If we are to believe that Oscar Pistorius is being truthful has told thus far the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it is to believe that the witnesses thus far in this case have all lied, or as his defence counsel has suggested, that the witnesses:

(a) Did not hear Miss Steenkamp and Pistorius argue/raised voices.
(b) Did not hear Miss Steenkamp scream in fear, that what they heard was Pistorius screaming like girl (something he might do if found guilty of murdering Miss Steenkamp)
(c) Did not hear the sound of gunshots, that what they heard was the sound of a cricket bat being bashed against a door (funny that as the defence has also suggested that some witnesses were too far away to have heard sound of gunshots but not too far off to hear a cricket bat against a door?)
and
(d) That he, Pistorius thought there was an intruder, a burglar who, had come in through a window.
(e) That Pistorius on this night, the night he shot and killed Miss Steenkamp changed the nightly routine which he normally followed in respect of where he kept his mobile phone, his handgun and a most important factor on which side of the bed he slept!

Almost 7 years since the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
If we are to believe that her parents the Doctors McCann and their holiday companions have been truthful, that thus far they have told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it is to believe, that anything any witness has said must be treated according to their spokesperson, Clarence Mitchell as ‘ludicrous/lies'  it is to believe what they the McCanns have suggested:

(a) That an upstairs neighbour did not hear the McCann children cry on any night.
(b) That there had been an intruder/a burglar who had come in through a window.
(c) That they changed sleeping arrangements the night previously with Kate McCann sleeping in the children’s room.
(d) That they changed routine on the night the child vanished – that is in respect of which doors they entered/exited the apartment, the regularity of their checks of children.
(e) And of course the biggie - two of their companions, also doctors, making their debut on that night also, one the now infamous Dr Payne paying a visit to Kate McCann and her children, and the equally infamous Dr Oldfield he too popped in to check on McCann children.

How come?
Why did they all suddenly want to check on the McCann kids?
No one checked on anyone else’s kids all week long.

The McCanns NEVER checked on anyone’s kids at all, not even to listen at the shuttered windows of the apartments of their companions – which they had to pass, and up close, on the way to their own apartment.   Yet on the night Madeleine vanished, the McCann apartment became like Grand Central!
McCanns want the world to believe they changed routine on the night their daughter vanished that there was an intruder/burglar. (The evidence gathered during police investigation points to the child having died in the apartment, possibly the result of a tragic accident, possibly at a time when the child and her siblings were left alone, no responsible adult in attendance to care for them.)

Oscar Pistorius wants the world and the Court to believe that he changed routine on the night he shot and killed Miss Reeva Steenkamp (witness testimony of an ex girlfriend during the trial contradicts absolutely his version) He wants the world to believe that he thought there was an intruder/a burglar in his home and that he thought he was shooting this burglar.
The Court in South Africa will hopefully get to the truth of the statements given by Oscar Pistorius. The parents of Miss Reeva Steenkamp deserve no less than to see justice served for the loss of a much loved daughter. To see her killer, Oscar Pistorius, if found guilty of murder, punished according to the law of their land.

Hopefully one day a Court in Portugal will get to the truth of the statements given by the McCann parents the parents of this missing child, parents who together with their companions, refused to help Madeleine, refused to take part in a reconstruction of events refused to assist police with this. The McCann twins, Madeleine's brother and sister deserve no less than to hear the truth, to see justice served, the perpetrators of the crimes committed against their sister punished.
For now though justice for young Madeleine McCann seems a long way off, and the performance of Scotland Yard has done nothing to change that. Perhaps hindered!

Almost 7 years now since her disappearance, and no sign as yet of her parents and their companions seeing the inside of a Court.
No sign of any one of them doing the decent thing and giving explanation as to why their stories do not add up!
No sign of any one of them putting Madeleine, her siblings, Sean and Amelie before all else. Amelie and Sean are the ones who will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. They are the ones who most need to know the truth of what became of their sister.

Their parents telling them of bad men, monsters having taken Madeleine may solve the parents problem short term when the children are young, but that will not always be the case. These kids will already be asking some very uncomfortable questions. Questions, answers to which (and when they are ready) they will be able to find in the online police files, where they will be able to identify the inconsistencies in the stories told by their parents and their holiday companions. Video footage too of the interviews their parents have given, containing information, detail which is not consistent not only with their police witness statements, but inconsistent, interview to interview.

No sign of the Metropolitan Police requesting that the McCann holiday group take part in a police criminal style reconstruction of events of the night the little girl mysteriously vanished which would allow for these very same inconsistencies in the stories told by the group to be addressed, and of which there are many!
One has to wonder why this was not one of the first steps taken by Scotland Yard.

Of course in October 2013 Crimewatch served up a reconstruction where the public were presented with nothing short of a fairy tale account of the events of the night Madeleine vanished.

This production was not a truthful account of events according to the police witness statements given by this group of people (read online police files on Madeleine McCann case) DCI Andy Redwood of Metropolitan Police knows that it was not a truthful account.   And so too, do the McCanns and their holiday companions!
So where does that leave the Scotland Yard investigation into this child’s disappearance when what they allowed to be presented to the public was not an honest account?
Where does that leave justice for young Madeleine when still her parents and their holiday companions have not participated in any reconstruction? Further away than ever?

Both Miss Reeva Steenkamp and the little girl Madeleine Beth McCann, had their young lives cut short by the in/direct irresponsible, callous and cruel actions of persons close to them, persons who claim to have loved them.
Oscar Pistorius is directly responsible for the death of Miss Steenkamp.
Gerry and Kate McCann indirectly (possibly directly) responsible for the disappearance and possible death of Madeleine!

Just as in the Pistorius case where there is only his word as to what happened on the night he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp. In the McCann case there is only the word of Gerry and Kate McCann that their daughter was abducted.
There is no evidence that Madeleine McCann was abducted, and never has been!

In both cases, no burglar who came in through a window!

Thanks for posting that Peter Mac, a really interesting article.

by aiyoyo 13.03.14 17:40

Portia wrote:Leaving aside for a moment the sad fate of this sunny small child: how hard it must be for anyone in the know as to what befell her, to be awaiting, day in day out, the knock on the door and the "Hello Sir, could we have a quiet word please?"

Personally I think that is never going to happen.
If any of the friends had wanted to come clean s/he would have done so long ago.
They knew that Fund is a Fraud and yet that did not stir them to come forward.
Helping friends to cover up a crime at that time because of own vested interest is one thing. Continuing to remain silent despite knowing the Fund is a Fraud would appear to me they are not prepared to snide on their friends no matter what.

by canada12 13.03.14 17:45

I've often wondered if The Fund has been used to buy the silence of certain individuals...?

by aiyoyo 13.03.14 18:21

PeterMac wrote:,
In both cases, no burglar who came in through a window!

In OP case without an open window, there is no justification for assuming an intruder had entered.
Therefore a window had to be "left" opened to support his supposition.

Prosecutors show 'trail of blood'

Later on Thursday, prosecutors displayed a sequence of photos showing the blood stains found on the floors, walls, stairs and chairs in the athlete's house after he fatally shot his girlfriend.

In one photograph displayed on TV monitors at Pistorius' murder trial, spots of blood are seen right next to some the double-amputee Olympian and multiple Paralympic champion's golden trophies.

The TV screen next to Pistorius was switched off during the display.

Former police colonel Schoombie van Rensburg, one of the first officers on the scene, described finding a "trail of blood" in Pistorius' bedroom.

Blood in his bedroom (yes bedroom) and hole on his bedroom door (yes that too) would have to be explained at some point.
How come there's hole in the bedroom door is a mystery, but blood in the bedroom can only mean he'd been in contact with the blood in the toilet first before he went into the bedroom. Maybe he went in to put on his prosthetic legs in order to be able to carry her downstairs, but did not have them on when he bashed in the door as he claimed. Forensic expert testifies marks on door were not consistent with Op's claim, rather to the contrary he was on stumps when he smashed door with bat.

Today's proceedings is occupied with show of photos of the crime scene.
From photos of whereabout laid RS Sandal and overnight bag(inside the bedroom) it would be fairly easy to deduce which side of the bed she slept on; and which side OP slept on.

First officer on the scene testified that the balcony door and curtain were opened. OP claimed he closed them after he brought back the fans but he also claimed he opened the balcony door to scream for help. It would be interesting to know whether blood prints were found on the balcony door or not? Or whether blood trail was found leading to the balcony ? Which bits of his story would stand up to scrutiny is left to be seen.

by Ollie 14.03.14 1:09

Pistorius has broken the door using a cricket bat to get into the bathroom because he has realised it was Reeva in there, but why was the gun on the floor of the bathroom ready to fire?

by Guest 14.03.14 9:35

It had been brought up, that he seems to have changed his side of the bed [according to a former girl-friend], which could be significant. There may be an innocent misunderstanding, though, IMO, as to what one would call the left or right side of a bed. When on stands in front of the bed, the LEFT would be at one's left hand side, whereas when one lays in it, it could be referred to a as being on the RIGHT side of the bed ...

I was reminded of this by recollection of a former Dutch t.v. presenter [Professor I.A. Diepenhorst for Dutchies winkwink

] , who would always introduce his guests by saying: "To my RIGHT, that's to my LEFT for you, is Mr. so-and-so ...". In filming, the misunderstanding is prevented by using the terms "Camera right" and "Camera left".

by aiyoyo 14.03.14 10:20

Ollie wrote:Pistorius has broken the door using a cricket bat to get into the bathroom because he has realised it was Reeva in there, but why was the gun on the floor of the bathroom ready to fire?

Could it be - he left it there on purpose, also purposely moved RS away from the toilet so that Police won't know the position she was in when she was hit and where/what position she laid dying/dead.
It's called crime scene setting, same as the fans, open balcony, open curtain, cricket bat, prosthetic leg and whatever, it was all just scene staging to suit his purpose.

Apparently from what I read, the type of gun he had can fire up to 10 rounds.
Four bullets later he could not hear her anymore and knew she's dead.
He was in control again now that she's silent so decided to check on her, hence the cricket bat to bash down the door to act out the rest of the story. He was tampering with crime scene when priority was to get help which was only a phone call away without the need to move her.

by aiyoyo 14.03.14 11:27

Châtelaine wrote:It had been brought up, that he seems to have changed his side of the bed [according to a former girl-friend], which could be significant. There may be an innocent misunderstanding, though, IMO, as to what one would call the left or right side of a bed. When on stands in front of the bed, the LEFT would be at one's left hand side, whereas when one lays in it, it could be referred to a as being on the RIGHT side of the bed ...

I was reminded of this by recollection of a former Dutch t.v. presenter [Professor I.A. Diepenhorst for Dutchies ] , who would always introduce his guests by saying: "To my RIGHT, that's to my LEFT for you, is Mr. so-and-so ...". In filming, the misunderstanding is prevented by using the terms "Camera right" and "Camera left".

It's easy - you account for the sides from the headboard as if lying on the bed, and not from the end of the bed viewing in which will result in opposite left and right, it's bound to be.

Sleeping on the right side would mean swinging out of bed on his right side where his prosthetic leg laid (according to his ex) would be about correct. Even in normal circumstances an able-bodied person does not change his habitual routine, so any change or deviation in routine is always red flag.

Reeva was not in pyjamas, she was in casual indoor clothes, another red flag. Likely it was domestic row turned violence turned fatal. He settled an assault case filed by one of his exs just ahead of time of this criminal trial, so it seems there might be a behavourial pattern here. Maybe he assaulted (as in physical violence) RS so she tried to run away but was restrained by him and could't escape maybe bedroom door was locked (hole in bedroom door seen on photo still needs to be explained) so she fled to the toilet, locked herself in so that he couldn't hit her anymore, refused to come out at his behest, he didn't like losing control so he shot her.
When he reached for his gun under the bed surely he would have seen the bed was empty. If he did not wake her up how did he expect her to call the police on his instruction? His story is so full of holes.

I don't understand how come blood was all over his trophies. What was he doing inside the bedroom after he found her ?

No matter the competent, flawless or not of the police work, it will invariably without fail be criticized by Defense side, nothing new there, it's what the Defense Counsel do - pick holes and tear down the police, expert, and forensics evidence to defend client's case.

Roux (sticky paste) is holding centre stage in Court with all his dramatic - take of glasses, pausing, staring, thinking over which voice to put on - third degree spanish inquisition grilling all the witnesses. It's just a mind game and he's damn good at that, manipulation of evidence and mind game.
The Judge is so laid back you would think she's fallen asleep during the proceedings.

It is a live telecast of a high profile homicide case with all the right ingredients to make a grip-tthe-nation-soap that should root people to their chairs, but it is NOT. It is boring to the extreme. I have never seen a high profile live court case as lack lustre as this one.

by margaret 14.03.14 12:12

Ollie wrote:Pistorius has broken the door using a cricket bat to get into the bathroom because he has realised it was Reeva in there, but why was the gun on the floor of the bathroom ready to fire?

The bathroom is separate to the toilet. The toilet is a small lockable room in the corner of the larger bathroom.

There's a photo of him today standing bloodied without his legs on, but then there photos of his bloodied stumps, so when did he put them on to get blood running down them?

by aiyoyo 14.03.14 14:21

margaret wrote:
Ollie wrote:Pistorius has broken the door using a cricket bat to get into the bathroom because he has realised it was Reeva in there, but why was the gun on the floor of the bathroom ready to fire?

The bathroom is separate to the toilet. The toilet is a small lockable room in the corner of the larger bathroom.

There's a photo of him today standing bloodied without his legs on, but then there photos of his bloodied stumps, so when did he put them on to get blood running down them?

When he carried her down the stairs one would suppose he would need his legs for that.