Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[Spaniel]

Someone says that "Cops don't hang one of their own". Which is the position the SY is now.

If the SY try to cover up this crime some cops will be 'hanged' - Mark Harrison, Lee Rainbow, Martin Grime for instance.

I get your point, but what do you think about that SY review the direction is taking?
Is it genuine or a whitewash/cover up is on the way?

If both sides wanted to cover up this case they could have done it 4 years ago when the case was shelved. The SY know all about Goncalo Amaral and his take on things, which were based on findings by the UK police. I don't think Amaral will allow a cover up because he has a platform to voice his opinion - he's not censored in Portugal like he is in the UK. He says "Justice works in silence" and I have faith in him that he will be the one to get justice for Madeleine. He has also said that people will pay for what they've done to him then he will tell the rest.

Keep the faith in Goncalo.

Had PJ wished, they could have set Murat up for the fall and it would all be over now. They didn't. they knew who, they knew why?

Eating cheese and ham sandwiches with mum at home without an indepenent witness, is not a firm alibi. However, I believe him, but he should be grateful to the PJ, not scathing. Had their focus been skewed, he could be in jail now and the fund closed down ...... but hang on .... ?

[Guest]

Trigger can you go back and edit that post you made. I don't know which bit is which otherwise I could do it. If you can't I will delete the whole thing, as you cannot have what you have written mixed up with other members posts.

It really has nothing to do with this thread anyway, as I said before, this thread is going off topic, it is about Panorama and Andy Redwood.

There is a conspiracy thread in the debate section

[Zozo]

@ufercoffy

What is your impression and comment about SY review? Do you trust it or not?

[Spaniel]

@ ufercoffy

Of course i understand that SY knows well about Gonzalo A and his theory based on UK police findings.
Did SY leaving all the possibility of investigation line open including death of Madeleine for their review? To my view is not. if not why?

Why do you think if the cover up wasn't done 4 years ago, it could not be done now? Indeed to my opinion it has started 4 years ago, for example the time the UK police refused to provide to their colleagues portuguese, the credit cards transactions of the Mccanns the time they were in holiday; or those dogs findings which samples from the Mcanns car and house was sent into the UK forensics lab, to return back saying their were inconclusive. To my opinions, there's high suspicions their were manipulated just to protect the Mccanns.

When you say :"If the SY try to cover up this crime some cops will be 'hanged' - Mark Harrison, Lee Rainbow, Martin Grime for instance."
I don't agree with that. As long as they keep their mouth shut, and don't dare talk about what their expertise analysis have shown, which seems SY doesn't want to look at, they won't attract trouble to themself.
I 've heard that Martin Grime has been ordered not to comment on the case. I can not certify that is true, but if its revealed that is true, its likely to be the same for others also.

I'm sure PeterMac will confirm that all police officers must take an oath of secrecy. I went out with a detective, and he was the biggest blabbermouth ever about cases. He didn't last long, but not for that reason.

[Spaniel]

Trigger can you go back and edit that post you made. I don't know which bit is which otherwise I could do it. If you can't I will delete the whole thing, as you cannot have what you have written mixed up with other members posts.

It really has nothing to do with this thread anyway, as I said before, this thread is going off topic, [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] it is about Panorama and Andy Redwood.

There is a conspiracy thread in the debate section

I'm as guilty as anyone candyfloss. but sometimes a post leads to a reply that's outside of the title. It's difficult to stay within the boundaries.

[Guest]

Trigger can you go back and edit that post you made. I don't know which bit is which otherwise I could do it. If you can't I will delete the whole thing, as you cannot have what you have written mixed up with other members posts.

It really has nothing to do with this thread anyway, as I said before, this thread is going off topic, [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] it is about Panorama and Andy Redwood.

There is a conspiracy thread in the debate section

I'm as guilty as anyone candyfloss. but sometimes a post leads to a reply that's outside of the title. It's difficult to stay within the boundaries.

Yes, we all do it, it's ok for one or two posts, but when the topic starts to veer off in a totally diffrent direction it needs to get back on track, hence the reminder.

[PeterMac]

I'm sure PeterMac will confirm that all police officers must take an oath of secrecy. I went out with a detective, and he was the biggest blabbermouth ever about cases. He didn't last long, but not for that reason.

Police don't actually take a separate oath, it is incorporated into the Oath of Allegiance - interestingly we do not sign the Official Secrets Act. Police are deemed to operate at a level higher than that !!
However - - - -
We used to have a saying.
"Top secret - tell no more than six."
Police are notoriously leaky. Their entire job involves giving evidence - saying what they know - and part of any investigation is telling the entire team what they have found so that the links can be made between that and what someone else knows. These days there are computer programmes to assist, but the verbal communication (possibly in the pub after work) is still vital.

[russiandoll]

"The other reason I posted a few pages back. Why expose the origin of the cover up when it's so useful to know this 'secret'. Like money in the bank - once you've exposed the scam, your bank account is empty."

Tigger, can you explain more fully please? I have had a tough day and am a bit slow.......

[Zozo]

...

Monkey mind,
Can you give your view on my post of 29/04/12 at 03:06am, wether you agree with me or not, it will be much appreciated.

[monkey mind]

...
They have said what they think has happened, a stranger crime, and that is how they will unflinchingly pursue the investigation unless some monumental piece of evidence arises which is impossible to ignore. I'm not happy to say this but I know what I am talking about here.
....

Good post Monkeymind.
What you are saying here of "monumental piece of evidence", I think IMO those evidences are already there but they have been manupilated and made them inconclusive just to protect the Mccanns.

Beside many inconsistencies in the T9 statements and the behaviour of the Mccanns, there are those blood and death scent dogs findings, with which samples taken from the Mcanns house and car were sent into the British forensics laboratory for analysis and to be returned saying there were inconclusive. Someone or a group of people have manupilated maybe to avoid the mccann going in foreign country jail or for other reason.

SY doesn't want at any cost to go back in review of those findings. Because if they accept to make a proper review of them and at the end gives differents results which incriminate the Mccanns and proove without doubt the death of madeleine, this could trigger public inquiry and anger of what went wrong with the first results which was said to be inconclusive, which of course will point out the responsibles of that corruption and manupilation of the first results. The responsible of course are ones of their own who works in their forensics laboratory. SY is well aware of this situation without doubt.
Someone says that "Cops don't hang one of their own". Which is the position the SY is now. And i think many of you here on this forum knows how is very very hard to convict a police man found criminaly against civilian. There has been such cases in UK which has been reveal to be very to build a case for trial.

SY doen't want to go that road not only they don't want to hang one of their own but also the backlash of bad reputation and high level corruption revealed, not only to the british public but also worldwide can be huge.

Because all of this said above, the Mccanns are very sure that the british police or SY will never go back in the review of those dogs findings, thats why we see them miltiplying their arrogance statement, sueing people here and there.

Thats why in my point of view, as i said before, we will have to wait 100 years or more, the mystery of this case to be solved when there will be no one involved in the case still alive.

Zozo, I agree with what you say at the begining, but I don't think it boils down to SY not wanting to hang one of their own. I don't think SY are running the show, it's just my opinion but I base it on what has happened and been said. I don't see how 37 detectives undoubtedly working long days, how they can't have been through all of the evidence provided by the PJ in a year. I could do it on my own, several times. Nor do I see how they can arrive at the conclusions they have. Maybe it is a clever ruse, I don't know, but I doubt it.

It appears to me to be a simulation of an enquiry as an illustration to the plebs that we are doing something. We see it all the time in so called public enquiries, Iraq war, Leveson, Dunblane and on, investigations which appear to do one thing whilst being led by the nose.

I think if the Met, Sy were truly running the show, under competent leadership, I belive they would arrive at a similar conclusion to the Portuguese police who in my opinion did an admiral job. Sure they made one or two minor mistakes, but they are human and it was a complex case, despite that and in the face of huge political interference they came to what appears to me to be more or less the right result. Despite how they are being portrayed I think they have been very professional and competent. I think SY would too, as I say maybe not identical, but very similar, and I don't think they would have any problem hanging one or two of their own in the process. Just my opinion.

[aiyoyo]

[quote="Trigger"]

from John Blacksmith, The Blacksmith Bureau - good read......

Saturday, 28 April 2012

Benny Hill's Alive Too

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Brilliant, as usual. Someone asked if I pulled the fastest milk cart in the west, and here Mr Blackmith is saying Ernie is still alive. Har.

My Trigger was Del Boys old mucker, so to avoid confusion with tigger I am quite happy for a name change to Del Boy.


I will move the links ASAP but am having computer gremlins.

Thanks Del Boy, Cool!

[Guest]

McCAndy: Former British police officer

[happychick]

It's being said on twitter that Andy Redwood is a close friend of the McCanns.

[Guest]

It's being said on twitter that Andy Redwood is a close friend of the McCanns.

wouldn't surprise me.... if true, wonder how long he has known them. So we can presume that alongside the CEOP manuals on the bedside table, which they should not have had access to, there are also SYs reports and investigations so far.

For a couple of average doctors from leicester they seem to be well connected..

[TheTruthWillOut]

I really don't think we should entertain Twitter rumours. (No offence Happychick)

Don't want to give certain "journalists" ammunition to call us trolls/conspiracy nuts.

[russiandoll]

If that were proved to be the case his career would be finished.

[Trigger1985]

If that were proved to be the case his career would be finished.

Utter rubbish. Look at the monumental mess Messrs Horrocks and Redwood made of the Dando tragedy. Redwood was promoted and honoured with this prime scalp. Horrocks is minting it in private security. No matter what happens, Redwood will be goldbricking it too via his lodge brothers. The modus operandi never changes. The corrupt always become serious millionaires once they leave power. One only has to look at Stephenson, Yates, Blair, Mandelson. I could name hundreds.

[nomendelta]

So I wonder if anyone with the savvy and know how could tell me what the statistics are for children being "stranger-abducted" by a childless couple as opposed to children being "stranger abducted" by a paedophile and further compared to children being harmed/fatally injured by someone they know?

[tigger]

So I wonder if anyone with the savvy and know how could tell me what the statistics are for children being "stranger-abducted" by a childless couple as opposed to children being "stranger abducted" by a paedophile and further compared to children being harmed/fatally injured by someone they know?

Well put! And succinctly thank goodness.

[Trigger1985]

So I wonder if anyone with the savvy and know how could tell me what the statistics are for children being "stranger-abducted" by a childless couple as opposed to children being "stranger abducted" by a paedophile and further compared to children being harmed/fatally injured by someone they know?

Excellent question. Do read the Chelsea Hoffman article candyfloss mentioned. Almost non-existent in Portugal ref the Horrocks bilge. The much in demand (har) HKG securityi Clarence Mitchell clones is clearly "on message" and talking, like brother Bennie Hill, poppycock.

[russiandoll]

If that were proved to be the case his career would be finished.

Utter rubbish. Look at the monumental mess Messrs Horrocks and Redwood made of the Dando tragedy. Redwood was promoted and honoured with this prime scalp. Horrocks is minting it in private security. No matter what happens, Redwood will be goldbricking it too via his lodge brothers. The modus operandi never changes. The corrupt always become serious millionaires once they leave power. One only has to look at Stephenson, Yates, Blair, Mandelson. I could name hundreds.

So another member who is offensive as soon as an opinion contrary to his/her own is posted. Can't you express yourself with phrases like " I have to strongly disagree with you there RD"
I have serious doubts about this review, but am finding the masonic conspiracy thing tiresome. Where is your evidence? I do not subscribe to your views, simple and this would be a boring discussion if it was full of " they are all in it, it goes right to the top, " from all posters.
next the royal will be involved and no I am no fan of theirs any more than I am of SY. I do keep up with current affairs, if you would like a debate with me please be less patronising.
[ and have you never heard of the phrase devil's advocate?

[russiandoll]

Do read the Chelsea Hoffman article
yes Trigger copied here by me early hours Sunday morning as I found it very interesting. So something we agree on!

[Zozo]

@ trigger

Can you please give us the link of the article you posted recently about
Ian Horrocks. Probably it was from the sun online but its difficult for me to find it

[Guest]

AdvocatusTrigger, firstly can you post up links, for anything you post. Secondly posting reams and reams on masonic stuff has nothing to do with the thread title and is totally clogging it up. If anything is absolutely relevant to the Madeleine case, then just post the link, and those that wish to can read, and not copy and paste the whole article. Thank you.

[Trigger1985]

Do read the Chelsea Hoffman article
yes Trigger copied here by me early hours Sunday morning as I found it very interesting. So something we agree on!

I believe it is a personal moral imperative to make information available to newcomers, in context and on topic. I am happy that we agree in this instance. Newcomers may not be able to join the dots like old timers. I make no apology for succinctness. Metido3 et all purposely swamped all relevant Police with overwhelming garbage. This was no accident. Nothing in this case is by chance.

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. Franklin D. R.

[Trigger1985]

AdvocatusTrigger, firstly can you post up links, for anything you post. Secondly posting reams and reams on masonic stuff has nothing to do with the thread title and is totally clogging it up. If anything is absolutely relevant to the Madeleine case, then just post the link, and those that wish to can read, and not copy and paste the whole article. Thank you.

Links are being whooshed all the time, that is a problem. In three years, if researchers examine this thread, and click on the links to mainstream press obfuscations and misdirections, they quill in many cases get a 404 file not found message. Is it not wise to document everything here? It costs nothing. But then again who knows by then - we may all have 404 stencilled on our foreheads.

[Ribisl]

AdvocatusTrigger, firstly can you post up links, for anything you post. Secondly posting reams and reams on masonic stuff has nothing to do with the thread title and is totally clogging it up. If anything is absolutely relevant to the Madeleine case, then just post the link, and those that wish to can read, and not copy and paste the whole article. Thank you.

Links are being whooshed all the time, that is a problem. In three years, if researchers examine this thread, and click on the links to mainstream press obfuscations and misdirections, they quill in many cases get a 404 file not found message. Is it not wise to document everything here? It costs nothing. But then again who knows by then - we may all have 404 stencilled on our foreheads.

I thought you were going to become DelBoy

[Guest]

AdvocatusTrigger, firstly can you post up links, for anything you post. Secondly posting reams and reams on masonic stuff has nothing to do with the thread title and is totally clogging it up. If anything is absolutely relevant to the Madeleine case, then just post the link, and those that wish to can read, and not copy and paste the whole article. Thank you.

Links are being whooshed all the time, that is a problem. In three years, if researchers examine this thread, and click on the links to mainstream press obfuscations and misdirections, they quill in many cases get a 404 file not found message. Is it not wise to document everything here? It costs nothing. But then again who knows by then - we may all have 404 stencilled on our foreheads.

I thought you were going to become DelBoy

AdvocatusTrigger has left the building again

[aiyoyo]

AdvocatusTrigger, firstly can you post up links, for anything you post. Secondly posting reams and reams on masonic stuff has nothing to do with the thread title and is totally clogging it up. If anything is absolutely relevant to the Madeleine case, then just post the link, and those that wish to can read, and not copy and paste the whole article. Thank you.

Links are being whooshed all the time, that is a problem. In three years, if researchers examine this thread, and click on the links to mainstream press obfuscations and misdirections, they quill in many cases get a 404 file not found message. Is it not wise to document everything here? It costs nothing. But then again who knows by then - we may all have 404 stencilled on our foreheads.

I thought you were going to become DelBoy

AdvocatusTrigger has left the building again

Again! Under what guise (name) did she leave the last time?

[Guest]

Apologies firstly for going off topic.

Ah we were blessed again were we with Advocatus in the name of Trigger? I hadn't suspected because of THE LACK OF CAPITAL LETTERS but it has been a while since they were last here so there was a lot to get off their chest!

Aiyoyo, I think that the last name was Advocatus - I don't know of any others but no doubt someone will advise me if I'm wrong.