Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[PeterMac]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

[espeland]

So

No 48 questions
No cadaver dogs
No conflicting statements
No dodgy text deletions
No dodgy fund 13% only of which spent on the search
No suing frenzy

What a waste of time then. Pooh.

Also ignoring impossibility of opening front window, doubtful witness of man carrying child, ignoring of Smith sighting and involvement of Tapas women in implicating Murat.

What brilliant detective work, DCI Redwood.

[tuom]

What a sham of a programme , just what qualifies a "special case " ? Although my heart does go out to MMC , it also goes out to the parents of other missing children who for some reason are not considered special enough to have time and money spent on them how are they feeling now after watching that ........... I am not really into politics but there is something here stinking to high heaven , makes my blood boil , have indigestion now as I rushed my dinner to watch that drivel [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[Guest]

Total, total crap. Bad PJ, good SY. Of course perhaps this is the idea, SY has all the answers, but bad, bad PJ won't re-open the case. Very surprised at Sandra F's comments.

[juliet]

Could not believe Bilton when he accused Amaral of "diverting attention from the search" and said he had made £300,000. What about the parents, who didn't even search that first night! Who deleted endless phone messages! Who lied and lied about jemmied shutters, locked and unlocked doors, drugged or undrugged babies, and who refused to answer vital questions?? And who have collected something like £4 million at least from their "search"....about 10% of which is accounted for.

They must be so so thrilled with tonight's programme. I bet they are laughing their heads off.

[HiDeHo]

I managed to record it but don't know the quality once converted to be able to upload.

[OpenMind]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

Oh I agree completely, it was far more exposing and explicit than I was expecting, hopeful many more sceptics out there now

[Fred Up]

Alan Johnson started off by telling the grinning fool Bilton that the PJ investigation had been "dsigraceful".

So the stage was set for Redwood, Murat, Gomes, Duarte, even the so-called McCann doubter Sandra Fegueleres to make it seem as if the Portuguese police were all useless and/or corrupt and the Portuguese people had been sadly misled into believing in the guilt of the innocent-as-milk McCanns.

The dogs smelling cadaver odour was slimed over by Bilton: "the dogs found DNA in the flat and the car....next thing the parents were suspects."

Redwood was not at all impressive...another grinning fool who added absolutely nothing to the programme.

For anyone who has yet to still see this good waste of 30 minutes on a Wednesday evening, this is an articulate synopsis by Juliet. I am too ripping mad to be coherent. The dogs found DNA possibly (but inconclusively) belonging to Madeleine? Well, no sh*t, Sherlock! There would've been DNA of everyone and his uncle who ever stayed or spent time in the apartment if that were the case. Big steaming pile of poo. I'm off to kick the cat. (Not really, so please don't report me to the RSPCA)

[Guest]

And the Home Office wouldn't comment on the pressure put on Cameron by News International. Why were the Sun putting the pressure on?

[Ribisl]

So

No 48 questions
No cadaver dogs
No conflicting statements
No dodgy text deletions
No dodgy fund 13% only of which spent on the search
No suing frenzy

What a waste of time then. Pooh.

Also ignoring impossibility of opening front window, doubtful witness of man carrying child, ignoring of Smith sighting and involvement of Tapas women in implicating Murat.

What brilliant detective work, DCI Redwood.

We mustn't confuse Panorama reporting with what DCI Redwood actually said.
Real Madrid 2 - B Munich 1, by the way.

[justme3]

What a lovely sea, so much so, they showed it at the beginning AND the end...umm!

[tuom]

Could not believe Bilton when he accused Amaral of "diverting attention from the search" and said he had made £300,000. What about the parents, who didn't even search that first night! Who deleted endless phone messages! Who lied and lied about jemmied shutters, locked and unlocked doors, drugged or undrugged babies, and who refused to answer vital questions?? And who have collected something like £4 million at least from their "search"....about 10% of which is accounted for.

They must be so so thrilled with tonight's programme. I bet they are laughing their heads off.

Good Post........ of course they are laughing their heads off all the way to the bank AGAIN [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[Cristobell]

Apologies, I meant my 'spot the missing words' comment to appear here. Sorry. Please feel free to remove it.



I think missing out the words 'cadavar' and 'blood', merely describing the dogs as 'sniffer' set the tone of the entire programme.



Was also dismayed to hear Bilton say, the English are being open and honest and the Portuguese are keeping their opinions under wraps, he should have just added 'ya sardine muncher'.

[Upsy Daisy]

I cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away...........let's just hope that the discreet review they are carrying out WILL uncover enough to shut everyone up for good. DNA dogs inconclusive my a%^e...oh hello everyone, what about the cadaver scent...erm exactly whose scent was it then? What a waste of time, this was just a chance to make yet another programme with nothing new...not even one word one way or the other from DCI Redwood who appears to be starstruck getting to work on this case...honoured eh??? Poor Murat, the victim, who got a nice little fat cheque at the end of it if I am not mistaken. As if the police were going to treat him like a hotel guest, what the.... my blood is boiling and I wish I had not watched it. I need chocolate. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[Guest]

Will merge it in a bit Cristobell

[friedtomatoes]

I didnt expect anything much from Panorama anyway, or any of its useless presenters, it did use to be a half decent programme, not any more. I do hope Mr Redwood knows what he is doing. I trust he is and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the perversion of the course of justice. Because that can on,y ever result in coming to bite you in the bum as they say.

[Guest]

I cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away.........

I would think Goncalo Amaral and Sandra Felgueiras feel betrayed the way their comments were edited to fit the agenda.

[Zozo]

Have a bad feeling what is going on behind the scene between two police team doesnt look good.

Did really both police teams have good faith and will to resolve the case in the same direction??????

Collaboration and cooperation between two police teams is it really going well as they are trying to show the public?????

Lets wait and see!!!!

Even for the first investigation, it took sometimes for the public to know how frustration has affected the collaboration of two polices the time the Mcanns was made suspects.

[Guest]

I cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away.........

I would think Goncalo Amaral and Sandra Felgueiras feel betrayed the way their comments were edited to fit the agenda.

Someone should send a link to DCI Redwood of this thread, and the numbers viewing it.

[littlepixie]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

Oh I agree completely, it was far more exposing and explicit than I was expecting, hopeful many more sceptics out there now [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I agree with you two. I am optimistic [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[Newintown]

The whole thing was designed to slag off the Portuguese police, and to pretend only the Portuguese believed the parents were respeonsible for Madeleine's disappearance.



I cannot believe that Bilton, the hopeless patsy, said "Dogs found DNA in the apartment...." wilfully refusing to use the words "scent of a dead body."

The whole thing was so incredibly crass and clumsy.

Who is behind it?

Yep! hopefully this will be seen by the PJ and there resolve will be stronger than ever!. They should re-open case and say! ok ! we say you did it! mccanns and issue Euro arrest warrant, that would be justice

You beat me to it, I was just about to post the same thing, that hopefully the PJ will be so pi**ed off with this that they will reopen the case and go in with all guns blazing if they're sticking to their belief that Madeleine died in the apartment, hopefully many arrests will follow pdq.

[juliet]

Petermac, there is nothing good to be taken from this terrible, propaganda-laden programme.

All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

Nothing about the Tapas mob, who tried to finger Amaral as kidnapper/murderer. But then, Murat has been paid off.

And maybe Panorama edited Sandra F badly, but even she seemed to be slagging off the Portuguese and the Portuguese police. Plus there was Isabel Duarte suffering for her art as all her friends "thought the McCanns had killed their daughter and got rid of her corpse." As if that thought was wildly far-fetched...

This was an incredibly cynical programme: I can imagine Cameron: "The plebs are getting pissed off about millions being spent on the McCann case, while we don't seem to care about Ben Needham (or any other missing child including that little girl in the German supermarket).

"Someone throw them a bone. Get that useless Bilton to slag off the Portuguese and get them riled up against Johnny Foreigner. That will shut them up while we spend a bit more whitewashing the Mccanns."

[Ashwarya]

Utterly rubbish programme - I had an inescapable sense of deja vu almost all the way through. But I am much more encouraged now than after reading all the spin in the papers - no wonder the appalling Mitchell was looking so smug, the journos did all his work for him. Redwood didn't really say anything, but was not prepared to comment on the PJ's work - quite right too, and that suggests to me that they are colleagues working towards the same goal. He seems to want the case re-opened - so do we, and we know who doesn't want that or they would have asked for it. Sandra Felgueiras seems to be unrecognisable from her former sceptical self. I would imagine the comments from Robert Murat were highly selectively edited - how could he have forgotten who was responsible for the PJ suspecting him in the first place? The whole programme was clearly a McCann-Mitchell production - how could such a short programme need so much padding? I believe everything is still on course, although I can't see what the purpose of the programme was at all. As far Alan Johnson, what can I say? Yesterday's man, who cares what he thinks? He is hardly the sharpest tool in the box anyway. The current Home Secretary was certainly not putting in an appearance. All in all, not much to worry about if we are just going by that waste of 30 minutes - lets wait to hear what Blacksmith and Dr Martin Roberts think when we next have the privilege of hearing from them.

[Guest]

Bilton said Mr Amaral made £300,000 from his book, he didn't mention all his assests were frozen though.

[russiandoll]

I agree with Peter Mac's post.
I liked Redwood not rising to the bait when Bilton wanted a comment on the PJ near the end. I had the impression Redwood figured Bilton's angle and was not playing ball.
It was edited from the perspective of an agenda and Sandra F probably said an awful lot more. Redwood was pretty clear he wants the case reopening.
The DNA bit made me mad though, inaccurate reporting and silly as Bilton had mentioned or was going to, the police's conclusions of death and a sniffer dog smelling cadaver was part of that scenario..
Not once was there talk from Redwood of solving the mystery in terms of finding Madeleine, and Bilton stood gazing at 5a at one point and said " so many questions " I think that's what I heard..how true that is. There was no time in 30 minutes to discuss any of the glaring red flags, I did not expect that, and of course there are CR to be wary of.
I fully expected xenophobia from Bilton, but I did not hear Redwood giving any clue that he is anything but determined to find what happened to Madeleine McCann and wants to help the Portuguese authorities to do just that.

[Upsy Daisy]

Upsy Daisy wrote:I
cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is
through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis
as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away.........

I would think Goncalo Amaral and Sandra Felgueiras feel betrayed the way their comments were edited to fit the agenda.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
absolutely ! I felt sad that Goncalo's few minutes were taken out of context and that he wasn't able to continue his sentence with 'however.....'. So unfair! He looked quite nervous answering to that reporter about making money out of the book...yet not too much longer after that they are showing clips and snippits about Kate's best-seller and constant newspaper extravaganza pieces..... un..be...liev...able !!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I really hope that some sort of retort is forthcoming from the Portuguese
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[Guest]

Did I hear right that News International paid £1 million pounds into the fund?

[Cristobell]

Did I hear right that News International paid £1 million pounds into the fund?

I thought I heard that too!

[russiandoll]

"All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

who cares what the ignorant public think or believe? What matters is that 2 police forces collaborate, investigate thoroughly and solve this case.Justice for the little one is all that matters.
And the media pressure is very interesting imo

[tiny]

Bilton said Mr Amaral made £300,000 from his book, he didn't mention all his assests were frozen though.

Wonder why bilton didnt say how much money the mccanns have made out of Madeleine.