STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
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STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 11:24
STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
Gary Dobson’s incriminating jacket
Wednesday January 4,2012
By Daily Express Reporter
SCIENTIFIC advances used in the Stephen Lawrence case could solve the mysteries of Madeleine McCann and Jill Dando.
Forensic experts working on the racist murder devised new techniques to discover microscopic clues that convicted two of the killers.
Now Scotland Yard hopes the same revolutionary approach could help find the truth behind the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine in 2007 and the killing of BBC Crimewatch presenter Miss Dando in 1999.
The smallest speck of blood ever used in evidence at a British court nailed racist thug Gary Dobson yesterday.
Invisible to the naked eye, the minute spot was discovered on the collar of the bomber jacket worn by Dobson during the merciless gang attack on Stephen.
Two days of painstaking work with a microscope rewarded scientist Ed Jarman with the breakthrough in April 2008 – 15 years after the murder.
DNA tests proved it matched Stephen’s blood on the red polo top he was wearing, and the chances of it being anyone else’s was put at a billion to one. In April 1993 there was no chance such a tiny speck of blood, just 0.25mm by 0.5mm, could have produced a positive DNA result.
The “Start from Scratch” review into Stephen’s murder was ordered after the Forensic Science Service admitted major errors, including missed bloodstains, in the Damilola Taylor case.
The 10-year-old bled to death on a stairwell in Peckham, south London, in November 2000. Two teenagers were later jailed for manslaughter. Scientific advances that identified serial sex attacker Robert Napper as the killer of Rachel Nickell on Wimbledon Common also played a key role.
Clothing seized from Dobson and Norris, as well as other suspects, was sent to LGC Forensics – the firm which worked on the Taylor and Nickell cases.
Mr Jarman examined Dobson’s bomber jacket. LGC experts had already found blood flakes in the paper exhibit bag used to store the jacket. Using a microscope to increase the image size 40 times, Mr Jarman found the tiny speck.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/293439/The-smallest-ever-speck-of-blood-to-snare-a-killer
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 11:30
hope they dear test the blood in Madeleine case with this tecnology
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Pershing36 04.01.12 11:57
Interesting, especially as the other day they said they were certain she was abducted. Surely this test would only be useful of samples they have collected. It could only establish she was there and maybe others present. Since they have already covered the apartment with the nose bleed I guess it really only leaves the car.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by rainbow-fairy 04.01.12 12:05
Am I the only one to think the wording of this somewhat odd? The media generally only refer to Madeleine in the terms of 'missing' - so to link her with Jill Dando, and to say this breakthrough could 'solve' what happened to Madeleine, they must have some blood samples etc in mind... Could this be the 'body fluids' Kate McCann lied under oath about at the Leveson enquiry? The 'body fluids' she insisted did not exist?
You can't do tests where there is nothing to test.
Also, the other thing linking all these names - they are all deceased and murder victims. Hmmm... what are they trying to say here?
You can't do tests where there is nothing to test.
Also, the other thing linking all these names - they are all deceased and murder victims. Hmmm... what are they trying to say here?
____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras
Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.
NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Miraflores 04.01.12 12:48
Is this just a case of squeezing a reference in to Madeleine McCann because (in the past at least), her disappearance has sold newspapers?
I can't see how it would help here. Wasn't Madeleine supposed to have tripped up on the steps to the plane? In that case it would be quite possible for anyone nearby, so all the Tapas 9, to have got a minute speck of her blood on their clothes, and would prove only that they were near her at the time.
I can't see how it would help here. Wasn't Madeleine supposed to have tripped up on the steps to the plane? In that case it would be quite possible for anyone nearby, so all the Tapas 9, to have got a minute speck of her blood on their clothes, and would prove only that they were near her at the time.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 12:57
rainbow-fairy wrote:Am I the only one to think the wording of this somewhat odd? The media generally only refer to Madeleine in the terms of 'missing' - so to link her with Jill Dando, and to say this breakthrough could 'solve' what happened to Madeleine, they must have some blood samples etc in mind... Could this be the 'body fluids' Kate McCann lied under oath about at the Leveson enquiry? The 'body fluids' she insisted did not exist?
You can't do tests where there is nothing to test.
Also, the other thing linking all these names - they are all deceased and murder victims. Hmmm... what are they trying to say here?
Good point !
I guess she didnt nosebleed behind the sofa... And I guess they can test the fluids found in the car after she vanished... Would be great to establish if she ever was in PDL also, as the blood behind the sofa can do..Then they can try find out how her blood ended up behind there. I dont think anyone will believe it got there because of a nosebleed, atleast I hope..
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 13:04
They will zoom straight in on the bodily fluids found in the car, remember the one with a 15/19 match.Miraflores wrote:Is this just a case of squeezing a reference in to Madeleine McCann because (in the past at least), her disappearance has sold newspapers?
I can't see how it would help here. Wasn't Madeleine supposed to have tripped up on the steps to the plane? In that case it would be quite possible for anyone nearby, so all the Tapas 9, to have got a minute speck of her blood on their clothes, and would prove only that they were near her at the time.
They will not be looking at blood specs on the friends clothes, thats for sure.
I can't help but think though, if they nobbled the FSS, they can nobble this new place too.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Me 04.01.12 13:12
Stella wrote:They will zoom straight in on the bodily fluids found in the car, remember the one with a 15/19 match.Miraflores wrote:Is this just a case of squeezing a reference in to Madeleine McCann because (in the past at least), her disappearance has sold newspapers?
I can't see how it would help here. Wasn't Madeleine supposed to have tripped up on the steps to the plane? In that case it would be quite possible for anyone nearby, so all the Tapas 9, to have got a minute speck of her blood on their clothes, and would prove only that they were near her at the time.
They will not be looking at blood specs on the friends clothes, thats for sure.
I can't help but think though, if they nobbled the FSS, they can nobble this new place too.
I thought the FSS, for some bizzare reason, destroyed the samples?
____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 13:40
Yes, the FSS were very keen to destroy all the samples they had. Whether or not the PJ requested for some items to be returned to them, I do not know. Likewise, the Portuguese Forensic Institute also had lots of their own samples.
I was once led to believe that not having the original samples, is not the end of the world, as they can use the data from the first round of results with newer methods of testing.
I was once led to believe that not having the original samples, is not the end of the world, as they can use the data from the first round of results with newer methods of testing.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 14:05
I think that the PJ held some samples and they did their own testing, but sent off some to Birmingham so it would be neutral. I remember reading articles etc. at the time that this was the case. Here is a snip of one of them...............
[snipped]
Madeleine police get test results
Last Updated: Saturday, 2 June 2007, 21:17 GMT 22:17 UK
The McCanns held talks with Spanish government officials
Police searching for four-year-old Madeleine McCann have been handed the first results of forensic tests.
DNA and other samples were taken at sites in and around Praia da Luz in the Algarve from where Madeleine, from Leicestershire, went missing on 3 May.
UK police say they have received 1,000 images and 15,000 calls after an appeal to people who had been at the resort.
The information is being assessed and will be passed on to Portuguese investigators if thought relevant.
[i]Portuguese police did not give specific details of the tests conducted at the Lisbon branch of the national forensic institute
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6714297.stm
They probably still hold these samples
[snipped]
Madeleine police get test results
Last Updated: Saturday, 2 June 2007, 21:17 GMT 22:17 UK
The McCanns held talks with Spanish government officials
Police searching for four-year-old Madeleine McCann have been handed the first results of forensic tests.
DNA and other samples were taken at sites in and around Praia da Luz in the Algarve from where Madeleine, from Leicestershire, went missing on 3 May.
UK police say they have received 1,000 images and 15,000 calls after an appeal to people who had been at the resort.
The information is being assessed and will be passed on to Portuguese investigators if thought relevant.
[i]Portuguese police did not give specific details of the tests conducted at the Lisbon branch of the national forensic institute
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6714297.stm
They probably still hold these samples
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 14:12
Not forgetting that the McCanns brought their own forensic team in to do testing as well............
McCanns call in own forensic team to fight DNA linking them to Madeleine
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjO153Z
[snipped]
A source close to the couple told the Evening Standard: "We have brought our own forensics experts on board," adding that the new team is putting together a case that will offer "wholly innocent" explanations for any DNA and other forensic evidence found in the apartment and in the hire car, said the source.
The move comes as Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, both lawyers at Kingsley Napley, met their Portuguese counterparts Rogerio Alves and Carlos Pinto de Abreu for two days last week in Praia da Luz.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, has issued a defiant response to the latest cloud of suspicion hanging over the couple.
He said: "Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide and any material that may or may not have been found by police in Portugal can be wholly and innocently explained.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjhOsrV
Didn't KM say at Leveson no DNA found??? So how could there be a innocent explanation?
McCanns call in own forensic team to fight DNA linking them to Madeleine
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjO153Z
[snipped]
A source close to the couple told the Evening Standard: "We have brought our own forensics experts on board," adding that the new team is putting together a case that will offer "wholly innocent" explanations for any DNA and other forensic evidence found in the apartment and in the hire car, said the source.
The move comes as Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, both lawyers at Kingsley Napley, met their Portuguese counterparts Rogerio Alves and Carlos Pinto de Abreu for two days last week in Praia da Luz.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, has issued a defiant response to the latest cloud of suspicion hanging over the couple.
He said: "Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide and any material that may or may not have been found by police in Portugal can be wholly and innocently explained.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjhOsrV
Didn't KM say at Leveson no DNA found??? So how could there be a innocent explanation?
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 14:19
But where are those results and explanations? 
We are still waiting. 
We are still waiting.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 14:25
This from the same article in link in my previous post...........................
The McCanns had been hoping that new DNA samples taken by British police officers from their hire car, the apartment in Praia da Luz from where the four-year-old disappeared on May 3 and other parts of the Mark Warner holiday complex would help clear their names.
But a source at the FSS told the Evening Standard: "There is no reason to change the direction of the investigation and everything that has emerged indicates that it is focusing where it should.
"This is a very complex case and forensics are rarely conclusive on their own, but the new material adds to the existing picture that has been built up by police and fills in a few more pieces of the jigsaw."
The source is said to have claimed that the samples were of sufficient quality to distinguish between Madeleine's DNA and that of her twin siblings Sean and Amelie or her parents.
The scientists were also said to have taken into account the possibility that the DNA could have been transferred via her toys or clothes.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUmU8DFA
The McCanns had been hoping that new DNA samples taken by British police officers from their hire car, the apartment in Praia da Luz from where the four-year-old disappeared on May 3 and other parts of the Mark Warner holiday complex would help clear their names.
But a source at the FSS told the Evening Standard: "There is no reason to change the direction of the investigation and everything that has emerged indicates that it is focusing where it should.
"This is a very complex case and forensics are rarely conclusive on their own, but the new material adds to the existing picture that has been built up by police and fills in a few more pieces of the jigsaw."
The source is said to have claimed that the samples were of sufficient quality to distinguish between Madeleine's DNA and that of her twin siblings Sean and Amelie or her parents.
The scientists were also said to have taken into account the possibility that the DNA could have been transferred via her toys or clothes.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUmU8DFA
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 14:30
Not if the blood samples contained decomposition.candyfloss wrote:The scientists were also said to have taken into account the possibility that the DNA could have been transferred via her toys or clothes.
I just love all their innocent explanations. 
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 16:01
I have a funny feeling you know, that the FSS closing down and a new one opening up, together with LCN perhaps being rebranded as this 'new forensic technology', when all along it's probably exactly the same method, could very well be designed not to embarass this country when they finally get round to charging the McCann's.
A very clever move indeed, if that is what it is.
If you think about it, what are the chances that this microscopic spec of blood that led to a conviction was complete. If they had to use LCN, which was not acceptable in 2007, but now in 2012 it is, we may be finally getting somewhere !!!
bring it on 2012 
A very clever move indeed, if that is what it is.
If you think about it, what are the chances that this microscopic spec of blood that led to a conviction was complete. If they had to use LCN, which was not acceptable in 2007, but now in 2012 it is, we may be finally getting somewhere !!!
bring it on 2012
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Guest 04.01.12 16:32
Will these people finally crack the McCann case, like they did for Stephen Lawrence ?
http://www.lgc.co.uk/divisions/lgc_forensics.aspx
http://www.lgc.co.uk/divisions/lgc_forensics.aspx
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Re:STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER:THE SMALLEST EVER SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER.
by sijm 04.01.12 20:46
Hell Stella
Really hope this new DNA finding technique is the breakthrough everyone of us is wishing for, just one thing bothers me.
I remember Paulo Reis leaking out information about those laboratory tests on the blood samples taken from the Mcs Appartment and Paulo stated they belonged to a East European origin.
Are we to believe this supposed leaking of info while working for the Times & Rupert Mudoch or is it another red herring?
At the time Paulo leaked out this info, I found it very interesting he had been invited by the Times paper to right a few articles and it did occur to me, he he was married to a Chinese also he was later offered a job running his own paper in China, looked like a reward for services rendered to me.
By the way is'nt Murdoch's wife Chinese and the Sun I know sponsered the fifty day baloon event on June 22 2007 after Maddie went missing.
Really hope this new DNA finding technique is the breakthrough everyone of us is wishing for, just one thing bothers me.
I remember Paulo Reis leaking out information about those laboratory tests on the blood samples taken from the Mcs Appartment and Paulo stated they belonged to a East European origin.
Are we to believe this supposed leaking of info while working for the Times & Rupert Mudoch or is it another red herring?
At the time Paulo leaked out this info, I found it very interesting he had been invited by the Times paper to right a few articles and it did occur to me, he he was married to a Chinese also he was later offered a job running his own paper in China, looked like a reward for services rendered to me.
By the way is'nt Murdoch's wife Chinese and the Sun I know sponsered the fifty day baloon event on June 22 2007 after Maddie went missing.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by maebee 04.01.12 23:35
Of all the statements made by CM, this one: "Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide and any material that may or may not have been found by police in Portugal can be wholly and innocently explained" has got to be right up there with the craziest of them all. How can a suspect innocently explain a material that has NOT been found? Ok, they can explain something like the the 15/19 markers by nosebleeds, knee scrapes blah blah !!! but how can they explain something that has NOT been found? I don't get it.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by aiyoyo 05.01.12 0:35
Stella wrote:But where are those results and explanations?
A rather odd way to prove their innocence.
They were not even charged with anything yet they were determined to counter DNA testing!
A spin that back fires because people can read between the lines.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by Liz Eagles 05.01.12 1:13
candyfloss wrote:Not forgetting that the McCanns brought their own forensic team in to do testing as well............
McCanns call in own forensic team to fight DNA linking them to Madeleine
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjO153Z
[snipped]
A source close to the couple told the Evening Standard: "We have brought our own forensics experts on board," adding that the new team is putting together a case that will offer "wholly innocent" explanations for any DNA and other forensic evidence found in the apartment and in the hire car, said the source.
The move comes as Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, both lawyers at Kingsley Napley, met their Portuguese counterparts Rogerio Alves and Carlos Pinto de Abreu for two days last week in Praia da Luz.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, has issued a defiant response to the latest cloud of suspicion hanging over the couple.
He said: "Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide and any material that may or may not have been found by police in Portugal can be wholly and innocently explained.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjhOsrV
Didn't KM say at Leveson no DNA found??? So how could there be a innocent explanation?
So, our own private investigation, our own DNA specialists, our own campaign, our own top notch media spokesman....and all paid for out of...our own Fund. Now we have our own SY review. The dogs are unreliable, the reward is out of our control....the list just goes on...I'm so glad for this post.
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by aiyoyo 05.01.12 2:14
candyfloss wrote:
[snipped]
A source close to the couple told the Evening Standard: "We have brought our own forensics experts on board," adding that the new team is putting together a case that will offer "wholly innocent" explanations for any DNA and other forensic evidence found in the apartment and in the hire car, said the source.
The move comes as Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride, both lawyers at Kingsley Napley, met their Portuguese counterparts Rogerio Alves and Carlos Pinto de Abreu for two days last week in Praia da Luz.
We now know a source close to the couple = clarence mitchell 'cause we heard it from the horse's mouth.
He used the words "wholly innocent explanations for any DNA and other forensic evidence........."
Firstly, by that statement, CM represented their view that they conceded there were DNA and other forensic evidence found, though they later told LI otherwise while under oath.
Secondly, an explanation is just that.
You give an explanation and it's down to people to make of it what they will.
How can an explanation be wholly innocent, or wholly guilty for that matter?[/color]
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, has issued a defiant response to the latest cloud of suspicion hanging over the couple.
He said: "Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide and any material that may or may not have been found by police in Portugal can be wholly and innocently explained.
Here he said " wholly and innocently explained........" Well this is different altogether.
Here he is saying they can "innocently" explain thus it presumes their innocence,and not that the "explanation is innocent" as the other one means. As for the "wholly" did they tell all ?
Err....can anyone partly and guiltily explain something? If not, how then can anyone "wholly and innocently" explain anything?
He is playing with words bringing unnecessary attention unto themselves.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-486351/McCanns-forensic-team-fight-DNA-linking-Madeleine.html#ixzz1iUjhOsrV
Didn't KM say at Leveson no DNA found??? So how could there be a innocent explanation?
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Re: STEPHEN LAWRENCE MURDER: THE ‘SMALLEST EVER’ SPECK OF BLOOD TO SNARE A KILLER
by aiyoyo 05.01.12 2:29
Stella wrote:Will these people finally crack the McCann case, like they did for Stephen Lawrence ?
http://www.lgc.co.uk/divisions/lgc_forensics.aspx
It's funny how the papers subtly include the mccanns case into every murder case.
Earlier they associate it to Joana Yeates case, now Stephen Lawrence, and Jill Dando - all violently murdered! What irony!
No abduction mentioned, not even missing....!
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