Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by **tigger** 11.09.12 16:50

Guest wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:
Stella wrote:Here is a chart listing Kate and Gerry's calls on the 3rd. Those highlighted in yellow represent calls at the same time.

GM KM
03-May 03-May
8.23
8.24
12.24
12.31
13.34
23.14 23.14
23.17 23.17
23.40
23.52

Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.

Could this be explained by Gerry deleting a call, or are the pings still recorded on the ping map, even after deleting a call ?

Could this also mean that Gerry was using someone elses phone?

I wish I was more knowledgeable about these things..

That's interesting. When he and Michael Wright or Jon Corner? were seen paddling amongst the rocks - looking for something, I did wonder if it might be a mobile phone which could not be traced to Gerry. Might be one explanation. They were using their mobiles I believe whilst there, trying to locate the one which was thrown in the sea the previous night?
Payne was on the beach that night. Gerry is said to have been there too.

by southern_gal 26.01.13 14:09

Guest wrote:
GM KM JT FP RO RoB DP MO
03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May 03-May
8.23
8.24
10.52
11.33
12.24
12.31
13.34
20.30
22.45
22.45
22.45
22.51 22.51
22.58 22.58
22.59 22.59
23.00 23.00
23.05 23.05
23.06 23.06
23.14 23.14
23.17 23.17
23.24 23.24
23.40
23.52

What is interesting here, is that the Payne's never made any calls and just look at the phone pattern of the Oldfield's !!!

by monkey mind 26.01.13 15:48

In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....

by southern_gal 26.01.13 15:57

monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....

Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.

So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?

by southern_gal 26.01.13 16:01

Guest wrote:
LG78 wrote:Why arent there any overview of GM calls/sms made on May 1th? seems like Kate had a lot of calls that day...
Yes LG78, Gerry's call activity for the 1st must have been witheld by the PJ. Along with all the others for some strange reason. Let's hope Kiko has this information somewhere.

GM KM
01-May 01-May
10.16
11.56
12.17
19.45
20.31
20.33
20.35
20.37
22.16
22.23
22.23
22.24
22.25
22.27

Appears Kate had her phone during dinner that night.

by Guest 26.01.13 16:12

southern_gal wrote:
Guest wrote:
LG78 wrote:Why arent there any overview of GM calls/sms made on May 1th? seems like Kate had a lot of calls that day...
Yes LG78, Gerry's call activity for the 1st must have been witheld by the PJ. Along with all the others for some strange reason. Let's hope Kiko has this information somewhere.

GM KM
01-May 01-May
10.16
11.56
12.17
19.45
20.31
20.33
20.35
20.37
22.16
22.23
22.23
22.24
22.25
22.27

Appears Kate had her phone during dinner that night.

What a crazy sequence!

The regularity, the frequency. Twice on 22.23. The brevity.

Indicative of lunacy, bedlam or pure panick? Where was that phone at the times given?
Did any independent person, let's say a waiter, see this sort of traffic during dinner?

And, jointly with the diary notes: did she have tennislessons and go running with a mobile phone held to her head? Washing the blinds? Going to the supermarket?

Come to think of it, was the so called visit to a supermarket an alibi for absence at dinner?

by monkey mind 26.01.13 16:17

Notice the six brief calls by K between 10.15pm and 10.30pm.
Coincidentally, in the fifteen minutes directly preceding that, between 10.00pm and 10.15pm, there were six equally brief calls bet Robert Murat and his girlfriend. Six calls from them, immediately followed by six calls from her.

by Woofer 26.01.13 17:10

southern_gal wrote:
monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....

Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.

So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?

Southern Gal - I think, if you`re referring to DP and FP, they didn`t make any calls at all on the 3rd - aren`t they the pink columns?

by Woofer 26.01.13 17:14

Tuesday the 1st was the evening Mrs. Fenn heard a child crying from 22.30 (abt when the news finished) until 23.45. So Kate was phoning or texting furiously just before that.

This was the night of Beltane and the moon was full in Scorpio ! Just sayin`. Also the night of the quizz and the nice quizz mistress, or was that Wed?

by southern_gal 26.01.13 17:32

Woofer wrote:
southern_gal wrote:
monkey mind wrote:In the overall context the lack of traffic from the Payne’s is well, odd in the extreme. You’d think they’d find one person to call surely?
Makes one wonder if they didn’t have a phone no one is aware of.....

Note that DP and FP's times are identical. Were they communicating with each other? FP claimed that she stayed with KM while others went out searching.

So, did they have their phones with them during dinner or did they go back to their apartment to retrieve them?
If DP was out searching alone, per his statements, why did he need to keep calling FP?

Southern Gal - I think, if you`re referring to DP and FP, they didn`t make any calls at all on the 3rd - aren`t they the pink columns?

Dang it!! You're right. Sorry. I'm going back and forth in some of the older topics to refresh my memory about dates and times that the group have claimed in their timeline.

by Woofer 26.01.13 17:35

Southern Gal - its good to go over old ground. There`s just too much info to keep in one`s mind all the time and I know I tend to forget stuff.

by southern_gal 26.01.13 17:44

Gillyspot wrote:And of course Katey's calls are on the same night that Mrs Fenn heard children crying for over an hour.

From Mrs Fenn's Statement

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

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So Katey's last call was 22.27 and crying started at 22.30 approx.

Hmm

Here's one of the things I was looking for. Commonly when a child is upset and crying they typically call out for the mother especially when this is the parent who does most of the child rearing yet Maddie was heard crying for "daddy". From the interactions via photos and video of GM with his children he doesn't appear to be the nurturing type.

by Woofer 26.01.13 17:51

Remember, that Mrs. Fenn hearing the patio doors open, doesn`t necessarily mean someone was arriving - it could mean someone was leaving. And we don`t know whether the cry was `for` Daddy or `at` Daddy.

by southern_gal 26.01.13 17:57

Guest wrote:
LG78 wrote:Why arent there any overview of GM calls/sms made on May 1th? seems like Kate had a lot of calls that day...
Yes LG78, Gerry's call activity for the 1st must have been witheld by the PJ. Along with all the others for some strange reason. Let's hope Kiko has this information somewhere.

GM KM
01-May 01-May
10.16
11.56
12.17
19.45
20.31
20.33
20.35
20.37
22.16
22.23
22.23
22.24
22.25
22.27

Here are KM and GM's phone data for the 1st. That evening Maddie was heard crying and calling out for GM, KM makes a serious of back to back very short calls and the record for GM's phone are withheld. Hmmm.....

by Guest 26.01.13 19:24

Woofer wrote:Remember, that Mrs. Fenn hearing the patio doors open, doesn`t necessarily mean someone was arriving - it could mean someone was leaving. And we don`t know whether the cry was `for` Daddy or `at` Daddy.

Couldn't it have been KM crying for 'Maddie'?

This could explain why the poor child was so zealously restyled Madeleine.

by Guest 26.01.13 19:43

Or Sean crying "Maddie" ... ?
I've said it before and I say it again:
- Eddie reacted on the red T-shirt, Sean was wearing afterwards
- Sean was definitely IMO drugged, when they landed in UK after flying PT
Why?

by southern_gal 26.01.13 20:08

Châtelaine wrote:Or Sean crying "Maddie" ... ?
I've said it before and I say it again:
- Eddie reacted on the red T-shirt, Sean was wearing afterwards
- Sean was definitely IMO drugged, when they landed in UK after flying PT
Why?

The red shirt has always confused me. I suspect that the children were medicated for convenience but don't think Eddie reacted to this shirt because of this particular scent. In the forensic photos of the family's clothing I don't recall any that Maddie had worn. Who requested their clothes to be washed by the MW staff on the 4th?

by southern_gal 26.01.13 20:27

Guest wrote:Updated chart using info supplied by Kiko's tweets.

GM
28 29 30 1 2 3
8.07
8.07
9.10
9.13
9.18
10.13 10.35
10.47
12.35 12.24
13.46
13.48
13.59
15.49
15.50
17.49
19.49
20.14
23.14
23.17
23.40
23.52
red / VM
black / calls
no calls
same as Kate
same as Kate but Gerry deletes it on his phone
alarm is raised
voicemails from unknown source
only call taken by Gerry after 88 hours of taking no calls
Gerry saves this voicemail, then turns off his phone

by southern_gal 26.01.13 20:32

Stewie wrote:it also appears that there were a number of portuguese phones being used on that holiday... DP statement indicates that by late evening on the friday they had portuguese phones in their hands sorted out by a portuguese friend of FP's brother in law (SA)...so maybe there were other phones available earlier than the friday, which could acount for the huge gaps in their uk mobile records.... can't believe that portuguese phones needed because they didn't have a charger!
Portuguese mobiles also mentioned in JT and FP's rogatory interviews....

would love to see the call records for these portuguese mobiles!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we'll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***."
Reply "So that's a local number?"

1485 "I think..."
01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact, way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said there's, these people that we know there and that could have been it."
1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o' clock on the Friday evening to that number."

Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn't make sense."
1485 "No."
Reply "Err..."

1485 "From that number to your number."
Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything's alright, you've got the phones and everything, that's the only thing."

[url= [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The importance of phone calls

The extensive analysis that is carried out on all telephone communications that were made by the nine English people during their entire stay in Portugal is an important detail of the official investigation into Maddie's disappearance.

It is Jane Tanner who reveals to the English police that David and Fiona Payne used a Portuguese mobile phone at the time when Madeleine disappeared, a situation that was not even unique given the fact that Kate and Gerry McCann also had phones with a Portuguese chip at their disposal, some of which were never known to the PJ.

When questioned in England about her own phone communications, Jane Tanner identifies all of the correspondents as being friends or relatives, yet fails to identify the owner of a Portuguese mobile phone whom she calls and sends text messages after Maddie's disappearance. The question would never be clarified.

This is the first I've heard about this but it does answer some of the ?'s I have had.

by Inspectorfrost 26.01.13 23:03

01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact, way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that

++++

Do batteries on mobiles run out?

huh

I also wonder who KM was texting or phoning that tuesday night

by russiandoll 26.01.13 23:18

Unless I have misread ,there are no records of K or G phone activity for April 30th, the day about which virtually nothing was said in Kate's book. the day Maddie was signed out of creche in the p.m. after 15 minutes while the twins stayed in theirs apparently. A break in the established routine which I would have expected to be described more fully in a book titled " madeleine".
A very significant day imo.
I have always wondered was it one of the twins crying for Maddie 1st May, missing big sister who was no longer there?

by Inspectorfrost 26.01.13 23:26

russiandoll wrote:Unless I have misread ,there are no records of K or G phone activity for April 30th, the day about which virtually nothing was said in Kate's book. the day Maddie was signed out of creche in the p.m. after 15 minutes while the twins stayed in theirs apparently. A break in the established routine which I would have expected to be described more fully in a book titled " madeleine".
A very significant day imo.
I have always wondered was it one of the twins crying for Maddie 1st May, missing big sister who was no longer there?

she had her photo taken on 1st may at the tennis leson so i doubt she wasnt there anymore on the monday

by russiandoll 26.01.13 23:31

sorry I am confused....... the tennis lesson was in the daytime, the crying was late evening I believe? can you please elaborate a little on what you meant in your post re the Monday[30th?]

by Inspectorfrost 26.01.13 23:47

russiandoll wrote:sorry I am confused....... the tennis lesson was in the daytime, the crying was late evening I believe? can you please elaborate a little on what you meant in your post re the Monday[30th?]

i may be mistaken but i thought you meant madeleine was gone on 30 april
which cant be right if she was playing tennis the next day

by worriedmum 27.01.13 10:52

but wasn't there confusion over who took the tennis photo, and on what day? Was it produced straight away or after Gerry had been back to the uk? I haven't read Kate's book, but if she said she took it, why wasn't it used as the best recent picture to help the search?

by Guest 27.01.13 11:15

Indeed there is confusion over this photo and not just because of the miraculous differences in Madeleine from the poolside photo!

Kate claimed ownership in the book but Rachael said that Jane had taken it. I don't know if Jane was ever asked if she did.

From memory, the tennis ball photo was published within a week.

by Lady-Heather 27.01.13 13:01

As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that the tennis court photo was taken on 1st May 2007. It is only their word for it that places Madeleine McCann as being alive, and at Luz on that date.

by **Nina** 27.01.13 13:30

Lady-Heather wrote:As far as I'm aware, there's no proof that the tennis court photo was taken on 1st May 2007. It is only their word for it that places Madeleine McCann as being alive, and at Luz on that date.

Hi Lady-Heather. Yes they are placing Madeleine in Luz, but all we see is a little girl, all alone, not even a shadow of another by her. It says to me a little girl on a tennis court. It doesn't say Luz or May 1st.

by Inspectorfrost 27.01.13 22:08

Jean wrote:Indeed there is confusion over this photo and not just because of the miraculous differences in Madeleine from the poolside photo!

Kate claimed ownership in the book but Rachael said that Jane had taken it. I don't know if Jane was ever asked if she did.

From memory, the tennis ball photo was published within a week.

Jane does make reference to the tennis court photo in her rogatory interview and suggests it was her that took it. Unfortunately I cant search for the quote as I am on an ipad 1 at the moment.
Rachel got her days mixed up, Madeleine was not having a tennis lesson on Thursday morning as she was on a boat trip at the time! So not sure how reliable a witness she is anyway about much.

Also I can't believe that KM *rushed* back to her flat to get a camera to take photos. Not as if Madeleine was goingto get a cup or something.

I'm still wondering why Kates camera and photos are not in the PJ files.

by Lance De Boils 28.01.13 9:40

Guest wrote:Good morning Me.

Kiko has informed us that his full, professional analysis has been hand delivered to SY. There is no excuse then and it will save them huge amounts of time and money. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

BTW, Kiko knows who the voicemails were from that got deleted and if you or anyone else would like to know who he is, follow him on twitter 'kikoratton' Dewi Lennard. Read all the way back.

It was not a work colleague at Glenfield Hospital. Kate said he had been contacted by someone at work. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I've tried looking through @kikoratton tweets, but there are thousands of them now and I can't find what I'm looking for.
Can anyone help? pray2

The tapas phone autopsy