The tapas phone autopsy

The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Research and Analysis :: Guests and Ocean Club facilities + Telephone/Creche Records

Page 2 of 5 • Share

Page 2 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

#31

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Newintown 23.08.11 11:27

LG78 wrote:I guess 0044 its the land code to call from a foreign phone. So thats not part of the phonenumber.. if we remove the landcodeThen we get the number 7818520047 - and that number is located in Burlington.. I might be totaly wrong also lol, .searching without 0044 gave this..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Or was it an indian number

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.numberinvestigator.com/phone/781-852-0047.html[/quote[/url]]

Burlington - Wiltshire's Underground City

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Strange that it is a nucleur underground bunker and Gerry is on a government committee to do with radioactivity in children.

Newintown: Posts : 1597
Activity : 1622
Likes received : 2
Join date : 2011-07-19

#32

The phone numbers starting with "07" are UK mobile numbers which have already been extensively researched by Kiko. You cannot find their owners using a conventional phone search engine but you can - quite legitimately - pay a company to do so, which in fact is what Kiko did.

I think the Burlington number found is possibly a land line in the States?

Guest: Guest

#33

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 11:49

alison wrote:The phone numbers starting with "07" are UK mobile numbers which have already been extensively researched by Kiko. You cannot find their owners using a conventional phone search engine but you can - quite legitimately - pay a company to do so, which in fact is what Kiko did.

I think the Burlington number found is possibly a land line in the States?

Hi Alison

Was just about to post the same... In addition, looks like 07818 is the Vodaphone mobile network code....interesting to see if anyone around the case is on this network.

Guest: Guest

#34

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 14:17

I hope I've got this right, if so, Kate goes crazy on the 1st after 2 days of silence !!

KM
28	29	30	1	2	3
				7.36
				7.36
				7.50
					8.23
					8.24
				8.50
				8.53
			10.16
			11.56
			12.17
					12.31
					13.34
14.30
			19.45
			20.31
			20.33
			20.35
			20.37

			22.16
			22.23
			22.23
			22.24
			22.25
			22.27
					23.14
					23.17
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Gerry
	alarm is raised

Guest: Guest

#35

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by LG78 23.08.11 14:24

Stella wrote:I hope I've got this right, if so, Kate goes crazy on the 1st after 2 days of silence !!

KM
28 29 30 1 2 3
7.36
7.36
7.50
8.23
8.24
8.50
8.53
10.16
11.56
12.17
12.31
13.34
14.30
19.45
20.31
20.33
20.35
20.37
22.16
22.23
22.23
22.24
22.25
22.27
23.14
23.17
red / VM
black / calls
no calls
same as Gerry
alarm is raised

'seem like u are right. Maybe the girl Gerry invited to the table had something to do with it? Is it phone calls or messages or both we se on this time table? Maybe she had a argument with him over the phone? Maybe she was so desperatly in love with him, and he might not pay her all that attention she wanted, maybe she staged something to bring him back to her? You never no, there are so manye selfish sick people this days...

Is it that day that the plings for Gerrys phone are missing?

LG78: Posts : 145
Activity : 154
Likes received : 0
Join date : 2011-08-10

#36

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 14:32

That's the thing LG78, I'm still looking for the section that confirms her text messages. Some of those I have listed as calls may very well be voicemail, until I find the right document I'm leaving them in place as calls.

Guest: Guest

#37

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 15:05

Kate's calls up to the 4th as per the PJ (but this does not correspond with the other records !!!)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Gerry's calls up to the 4th

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Guest: Guest

#38

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 15:40

From 'A Verdade Da Mentira', by Goncalo Amaral;

The PJ check Kate and Gerry's phone records. Kate did not make any phone calls between the 27th April and the 4th of May which arouses suspicions. And hasn't received any between 11:22 on the 2nd of May and 23:17 of the 3rd. Gerry's phone has no record of calls before the 4th at 00:15. But there is a record on Kate's phone of a phone call from her husband on the 3rd May at 23:17. The same record doesn't exist on Gerry's phone. So the records were deleted. Why?

Guest: Guest

#39

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 15:50

- Yes, I think so: between April 27th and May 4th, Kate did not make any calls. Hum...

- None either, between 11.22am and 11.17pm on the night of the disappearance.

- Kate mustn't like making telephone calls...

- For Gerald, there's nothing before May 4th at exactly 12.15am

- What does that mean? They never made phone calls then?

- Wait, there's something here. Look at the number at the top of the list.

- Yes, so?

- On her telephone, her husbands' number is logged: she called him on May 3rd at 11.17pm, but on Gerald's, nothing, no trace of that call!

- How can that be explained?

- It's simple as anything: the list of calls has been deleted.

- Always the same old question: why?

Summing up: the first phone calls were exchanged one hour after the disappearance. It could be imagined that in that lapse of time, they were busy looking for their daughter. Nevertheless, it's astonishing that they didn't need to speak to each other at such a difficult time.

Later I learn that the English secret service had already placed the couple under telephone surveillance. If that's true, the Portuguese police were never informed.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Guest: Guest

#40

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 23.08.11 15:58

Thus the number appears to be a message box for Gerald McCann that sends him an SMS when his mobile is unable to accept a call (because it is out of range or turned off). However, when he was asked by "Expresso TV" on 6th September 2008 about the "sixteen SMS messages" received, he flustered:

"No one has ever asked to see any of my text messages. There is no way that there 16 messages on that day or even the day after, you know. You know, the day after, you know that we got..." Kate McCann came to his rescue and interrupted; "Gerry hardly ever sends text messages until the day after, the day after Madeleine was taken". Gerald McCann continued: "so you know that it is actually rubbish"

Their McCann's denials were, of course, technically true although perhaps disingenuous - because there were only 14 messages received on the day before they reported Madeleine missing and two on the day after.

There were 16 SMS messages, in total, so why prevaricate and deny an allegation that was never made. The question was about received messages, not those sent, and on the day before not on 3rd May 2007 or the day after! In the field of forensic linguistics you must always concentrate on the precise wording of denials and especially on those of allegations not made. The denials made by the McCanns are suspicious. However, Mrs McCann's statement about her husband not sending SMS messages, until after Madeleine's disappearance, is confirmed by Vodafone's records.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Guest: Guest

#41

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Me 23.08.11 16:05

Stella wrote:From 'A Verdade Da Mentira', by Goncalo Amaral;

The PJ check Kate and Gerry's phone records. Kate did not make any phone calls between the 27th April and the 4th of May which arouses suspicions. And hasn't received any between 11:22 on the 2nd of May and 23:17 of the 3rd. Gerry's phone has no record of calls before the 4th at 00:15. But there is a record on Kate's phone of a phone call from her husband on the 3rd May at 23:17. The same record doesn't exist on Gerry's phone. So the records were deleted. Why?

I read that to mean the PJ checked the handsets rather than the mobile company's records. I take it to mean that call logs on the handsets themselves were deleted rather than they didn't make calls which were subsequently found from the mobile operator's records.

Me: Posts : 683
Activity : 698
Likes received : 3
Join date : 2011-05-22

#42

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 8:09

Me wrote:
Stella wrote:From 'A Verdade Da Mentira', by Goncalo Amaral;

The PJ check Kate and Gerry's phone records. Kate did not make any phone calls between the 27th April and the 4th of May which arouses suspicions. And hasn't received any between 11:22 on the 2nd of May and 23:17 of the 3rd. Gerry's phone has no record of calls before the 4th at 00:15. But there is a record on Kate's phone of a phone call from her husband on the 3rd May at 23:17. The same record doesn't exist on Gerry's phone. So the records were deleted. Why?

I read that to mean the PJ checked the handsets rather than the mobile company's records. I take it to mean that call logs on the handsets themselves were deleted rather than they didn't make calls which were subsequently found from the mobile operator's records.

Oh yes[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] The first bit talks of "phone records", but the second bit says "phone has no record", which absolutely means Gerry's phone has been deleted of all his calls and voicemails. Thanks Me.

Guest: Guest

#43

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Me 24.08.11 8:14

No problem, i wonder if SY are following this line of enquiry because to me the phone records and the deletion of calls on the handsets sticks out like a sore thumb.

Who were they calling and why and more than that why did they feel the need to delete the calls from their handset?

Have they ever faced questions on these issues?

Like everything else related to the McCann's in this case, something isn't right.

Me: Posts : 683
Activity : 698
Likes received : 3
Join date : 2011-05-22

#44

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 8:24

Good morning Me.

Kiko has informed us that his full, professional analysis has been hand delivered to SY. There is no excuse then and it will save them huge amounts of time and money. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

BTW, Kiko knows who the voicemails were from that got deleted and if you or anyone else would like to know who he is, follow him on twitter 'kikoratton' Dewi Lennard. Read all the way back.

It was not a work colleague at Glenfield Hospital. Kate said he had been contacted by someone at work. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Guest: Guest

#45

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 9:13

alison wrote:

The phone numbers starting with "07" are UK mobile numbers which have already been extensively researched by Kiko. You cannot find their owners using a conventional phone search engine but you can - quite legitimately - pay a company to do so, which in fact is what Kiko did.

Is there any way of finding out if Gerry and this person (IS) are in the same lodge ?

Guest: Guest

#46

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Me 24.08.11 11:27

Interesting stuff Stella. Has there ever been on the forum a cross sectional analysis on the crèche and phone records, or are you keeping that back for now?

It would be interesting to see if conclusions can be drawn regarding the stand in Maddie and crèche records when viewed side by side against calls received, sent or messaged by the McCann’s and others.

I haven’t seen a definitive list of calls made, received and messegaed by the McCann's from Kiko's Tweets, again is that being withheld from the public forums for the moment?

I view the subject of the crèche records with an open mind but something clearly happened there with the released records because there appears to be signifcant issues with them. It would be nice if the phone records helped corroborate the theory regarding the creche records.

Me: Posts : 683
Activity : 698
Likes received : 3
Join date : 2011-05-22

#47

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 12:11

Me wrote:Interesting stuff Stella. Has there ever been on the forum a cross sectional analysis on the crèche and phone records, or are you keeping that back for now?

One has not been done as yet, it will have to be my next project !!! I'm currently using Kiko's tweets to update GM's calls.

It would be interesting to see if conclusions can be drawn regarding the stand in Maddie and crèche records when viewed side by side against calls received, sent or messaged by the McCann’s and others.

It would be interesting, but we have to remember apart from the one call he took on the 3rd, for a total of 88 hours leading up to that call, he did not speak to anyone.

I haven’t seen a definitive list of calls made, received and messegaed by the McCann's from Kiko's Tweets, again is that being withheld from the public forums for the moment?

I think this will have to be work in progress, as I now know a bit more and will post a new one up soon.

I view the subject of the crèche records with an open mind but something clearly happened there with the released records because there appears to be signifcant issues with them. It would be nice if the phone records helped corroborate the theory regarding the creche records.

Guest: Guest

#48

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Me 24.08.11 12:33

Stella wrote:
Me wrote:Interesting stuff Stella. Has there ever been on the forum a cross sectional analysis on the crèche and phone records, or are you keeping that back for now?

One has not been done as yet, it will have to be my next project !!! I'm currently using Kiko's tweets to update GM's calls.

It would be interesting to see if conclusions can be drawn regarding the stand in Maddie and crèche records when viewed side by side against calls received, sent or messaged by the McCann’s and others.

It would be interesting, but we have to remember apart from the one call he took on the 3rd, for a total of 88 hours leading up to that call, he did not speak to anyone.

I haven’t seen a definitive list of calls made, received and messegaed by the McCann's from Kiko's Tweets, again is that being withheld from the public forums for the moment?

I think this will have to be work in progress, as I now know a bit more and will post a new one up soon.

I view the subject of the crèche records with an open mind but something clearly happened there with the released records because there appears to be signifcant issues with them. It would be nice if the phone records helped corroborate the theory regarding the creche records.

I know what you're saying about the "radio silence" on their phones but i wonder if the alleged stand in's parents were contacted by phone and if the Naylor's were as well.

Plus it would be nice to see if call times and locations match up with entries in the creche records and the movements they claimed they made in their statements.

It's probably nothing substantial but given the nature of this lead it's one worth investigating and ruling in or out.

Me: Posts : 683
Activity : 698
Likes received : 3
Join date : 2011-05-22

#49

creche records vs phone records

by Guest 24.08.11 15:58

It looks like it would be hard to do this comparison for some days are there are gaps in the publicly available phone records... not clear if this is because there weren't calls at all, the records were obtained but not made public in the police files..... or the records are there but I'm being a bit dim and can't see them.

However, there is some analysis done to asses their movements in conjunction with the phone calls on this deleted call link:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

30 April is interesting. This was the day that Gerry did the creche runs for morning drop off 0920/0930 and pick up 12.10/12.15, then Kate did the afternoon run.. and on the afternoon run she seems to have put the Madeleine in the creche at 15.15, then put the twins into their creche at 15.25, then back to get Madeleine out of the creche at 15.30... wonder what she did with her in the afternoon.
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

The only phone records that seem to be public for this day are for DP who had
calls at 0846 and 1550..

As an aside, the creche records themselves are interesting - for the Jellyfish club, the records are neat, all the parents manage to sign their own children in and out successfully and the parents also manage to remember their room numbers and children's names.. the same can't be said for the Lobsters club records which are messy, have errors and apparently children being left in the creche overnight as their parents haven't signed them out... winkwink

Guest: Guest

#50

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by pauline 24.08.11 16:24

Stewie wrote:
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

Stewie, would your principles permit you to borrow from the local library. It is really interesting reading it when you have done your own research. I got someone to pay for it who believed the McCanns'!

When you return the book to the library you could put neatly inside (or maybe write in somewhere) a list of websites such as this one where the next reader could get more information.

pauline: Posts : 548
Activity : 557
Likes received : 0
Join date : 2011-05-08

Shellsbells likes this post

#51

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 24.08.11 16:36

pauline wrote:
Stewie wrote:
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

Stewie, would your principles permit you to borrow from the local library. It is really interesting reading it when you have done your own research. I got someone to pay for it who believed the McCanns'!

When you return the book to the library you could put neatly inside (or maybe write in somewhere) a list of websites such as this one where the next reader could get more information.

Library is a good idea - like the idea of trying to get the readers borrowing it to "see the light". Whilst I'm not allowed to buy "The Truth of the Lie" there is no way I'm going to be buying their book.... Actually, the only person left around me who still believed the McCanns was my mum.. so I got Faked Abduction book for her and she's no longer a believer... now she rings me up with loads of questions and theories of her own.. big grin

Guest: Guest

#52

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Gillyspot 24.08.11 18:47

Stewie wrote:
pauline wrote:
Stewie wrote:
I don't have KM's book as don't want to pay for it...but if anyone has access to it would be good to see what she says happened on this day..

Stewie, would your principles permit you to borrow from the local library. It is really interesting reading it when you have done your own research. I got someone to pay for it who believed the McCanns'!

When you return the book to the library you could put neatly inside (or maybe write in somewhere) a list of websites such as this one where the next reader could get more information.

Library is a good idea - like the idea of trying to get the readers borrowing it to "see the light". Whilst I'm not allowed to buy "The Truth of the Lie" there is no way I'm going to be buying their book.... Actually, the only person left around me who still believed the McCanns was my mum.. so I got Faked Abduction book for her and she's no longer a believer... now she rings me up with loads of questions and theories of her own..

No one I know believes the McCanns. Amazingly (or not) the reason most say is that the McCanns have been banging on to much about the "Fund" and they are sick of McCanns getting the begging bowl out constantly. "Why do they need all this money" & What do they spend it on" are frequent refrains.

I regret buying "Madeleine" as it may be causing this Carter Ruck. But at least like PeterMac I bought the Kindle version which means I can do word searches whenever I want.

Gillyspot: Posts : 1470
Activity : 1622
Likes received : 9
Join date : 2011-06-13

#53

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 12:36

Updated chart using info supplied by Kiko's tweets.

GM
28	29	30	1	2	3
				8.07
				8.07
				9.10
				9.13
				9.18
	10.13			10.35
				10.47
				12.35	12.24
				13.46
				13.48
				13.59
				15.49
				15.50
				17.49
				19.49
				20.14
					23.14
					23.17
					23.40
					23.52
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Kate
	same as Kate but Gerry deletes it on his phone
	alarm is raised
	voicemails from unknown source
	only call taken by Gerry after 88 hours of taking no calls
	Gerry saves this voicemail, then turns off his phone

Guest: Guest

#54

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 13:10

Why take 12 voicemails on the 2nd from the same person, over a 6 hour period and never speaking?

If it was about work just as Kate suggests, would it not be more efficient to get it all over and done with in just one conversation? After all, you are on holiday not at work !!!

Guest: Guest

#55

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 14:37

Updated chart for Kate, using info supplied by McCannFiles [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Kate
28	29	30	1	2	3
sat	sun	mon	tue	wed	thur
				7.36
				7.36
				7.50
					8.23
					8.24
				8.50
				8.53
			10.16
			11.56	11.21
			12.17
					12.31
					13.34
14.30
			19.45
			20.31
			20.33
			20.35
			20.37

			22.16
			22.23
			22.23
			22.24
			22.25
			22.27
					23.14
					23.17
red / VM
black / calls
	no calls
	same as Gerry
	alarm is raised
	when signal is first picked up
	call received from Swansea
	call received from Gerry
	deleted from her phone

Please note the call received from Swansea, was allegedly a wrong number.

Guest: Guest

#56

portuguese phones

by Guest 25.08.11 14:45

it also appears that there were a number of portuguese phones being used on that holiday... DP statement indicates that by late evening on the friday they had portuguese phones in their hands sorted out by a portuguese friend of FP's brother in law (SA)...so maybe there were other phones available earlier than the friday, which could acount for the huge gaps in their uk mobile records.... can't believe that portuguese phones needed because they didn't have a charger!
Portuguese mobiles also mentioned in JT and FP's rogatory interviews....

would love to see the call records for these portuguese mobiles!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we'll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***."
Reply "So that's a local number?"

1485 "I think..."
01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact, way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said there's, these people that we know there and that could have been it."
1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o' clock on the Friday evening to that number."

Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn't make sense."
1485 "No."
Reply "Err..."

1485 "From that number to your number."
Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything's alright, you've got the phones and everything, that's the only thing."

[url= [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The importance of phone calls

The extensive analysis that is carried out on all telephone communications that were made by the nine English people during their entire stay in Portugal is an important detail of the official investigation into Maddie's disappearance.

It is Jane Tanner who reveals to the English police that David and Fiona Payne used a Portuguese mobile phone at the time when Madeleine disappeared, a situation that was not even unique given the fact that Kate and Gerry McCann also had phones with a Portuguese chip at their disposal, some of which were never known to the PJ.

When questioned in England about her own phone communications, Jane Tanner identifies all of the correspondents as being friends or relatives, yet fails to identify the owner of a Portuguese mobile phone whom she calls and sends text messages after Maddie's disappearance. The question would never be clarified.

Guest: Guest

#57

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 14:54

I would lay a bet they were given throw away phones. i.e., the ones you buy as a 'pay as you go' and that a different simcard was probably used every day.

People who do not wish to be traced or have their calls monitored, would do just this.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Guest: Guest

#58

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 15:16

Stella wrote:I would lay a bet they were given throw away phones. i.e., the ones you buy as a 'pay as you go' and that a different simcard was probably used every day.

People who do not wish to be traced or have their calls monitored, would do just this.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I won't bet you on that one as I'm sure I'd lose..

And when on holiday and your phone battery runs out , who doesn't go and buy pay-as-you-go phones ?.... Or maybe a friend-of-Murdoch had warned them about phone hacking...

Guest: Guest

#59

Re: The tapas phone autopsy

by Guest 25.08.11 16:26

The texts to GMc on 2nd May look as if they are coming from the same number but that is because they are from the Vodaphone service which indicates when a voicemail has been left ( they may of course be all coming from the same number, but we can`t assume that).

The 10.13 call to GMc on 29th is a text message. Kiko and I have found the number this week on the PJ sheets and may try and find its owner as we have done with other numbers.

The files say that there are no calls for GMc for 1 May so I think we may be on safe ground to assume that this is correct and that it`s not a case of information being withheld by PJ.

Thank you Stella for all this work in tabulating the calls. It shows clearly the lack of activity at the start of the week and then the concentration of calls/texts/messages on 1st and 2nd.

Unfortunately there are no records relating to the calls/texts made and/or received by KMc on the evening of 1 May so we are in the dark about the relevant numbers.

K