Timeline and typology of abductors.

by **tigger** 23.05.12 9:13

It's occurred to me that a timeline and typology of the alleged perpetrators of the abduction might (or might not be) useful:
If we post as and when we find it, I could try and make a chronological list with refs. Here's probably the first example - I take McK to be G. McKenzie who is in the files.

Quote from topic Events of the 3rd/4th May.
About 23.00 hrs, OC guest G. McK. approached the McCann’s apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment. He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann’s apartment. He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone. Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie. Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared “she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles”. He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member: snipped.I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. snipped.
He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.”
unquote

So the first entry would be:
3/5 - 23.00 - Paedophile gang has abducted Madeleine. Gerry on the telephone - overheard by G. McKenzie

_______________________________________________

by monkey mind 27.05.12 22:05

tigger wrote:It's occurred to me that a timeline and typology of the alleged perpetrators of the abduction might (or might not be) useful:
If we post as and when we find it, I could try and make a chronological list with refs. Here's probably the first example - I take McK to be G. McKenzie who is in the files.

Quote from topic Events of the 3rd/4th May.
About 23.00 hrs, OC guest G. McK. approached the McCann’s apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment. He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann’s apartment. He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone. Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie. Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared “she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles”. He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member: snipped.I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. snipped.
He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.”
unquote

So the first entry would be:
3/5 - 23.00 - Paedophile gang has abducted Madeleine. Gerry on the telephone - overheard by G. McKenzie

_______________________________________________

I must say I find it remarkable that this perceptive post went either unobserved or uncommented.

Consider this....

The person making the above statement assumes GM was not aware of his presence. He does not know that as fact. He sees and responds to a situation and assumes that what he hears is so.

In any given situation, who needs an alibi? Who needs to set the scene? Let us not forget, at this moment in time, nobody, absolutely nobody had any idea as to what had happened to Maddie,. She may have wandered off, could have been anywhere. The police were fully aware of this, The innocent good natured helpers, the staff, the guests, all decent people, those searching also assumed she had wandered off, yet behind the scenes, on the balcony, G is already sowing the seeds not only of an abduction, but one by a gang of paedophiles. Is this not quite remarkable? Or shall we just consign it to the binalong with all the other evidence which paints a pretty picture.....

A pretty odious, most ugly picture. You are the viewer, you decide upon the artist's intent.....

by **PeterMac** 27.05.12 22:25

Nice one.
Both of you.
A thread worth a lot more research, but without much comment - if that is possible, since I have already commented !!!

by Guest 27.05.12 22:29

[quote="tigger"]It's occurred to me that a timeline and typology of the alleged perpetrators of the abduction might (or might not be) useful:
If we post as and when we find it, I could try and make a chronological list with refs. Here's probably the first example - I take McK to be G. McKenzie who is in the files.

Quote from topic Events of the 3rd/4th May.
About 23.00 hrs, OC guest G. McK. approached the McCann’s apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment. He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann’s apartment. He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone. Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie. Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared “she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles”. He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member: snipped.I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. snipped.
He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.”
unquote

Aware of the presence of these gangs? It beggars belief! Why then abandon three babies to their fate?

by Guest 27.05.12 22:51

Stewie wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:

Have just been having a think. Graham Mackenzie another holidaymaker at the Ocean Club said overhead Gerry McCann between 10 and 11 pm on 3rd May 2007 speaking to a family member about Madeleine being taken by a paedophile, Yet according to the records he made no calls.

ooh interesting..... good spot!

Looking at Gerry's phone records, those two calls were from Gerry to Kate.

I looked at the phone ping maps for Tapas 7 for that time, in case one of their phones was used for calls by Gerry:

Diane - no pings after 1930
David Payne - NO Phone records available 29 April, 1,2,3 May (hmmmm....why?)
Jane - no pings after 2030 and this was a call to the Gorrods
Fiona - no pings that day
Russell - no pings after 10:52

Rachel and Matt's pings are interesting. They have many pings between 2245 and 2324 - many of them within 5 seconds of each other. Can't see any call records which show actual numbers called for them but to me looks like they were in communication with each other as one phone will ping then 5 seconds later the other. Only calls that fall outside this pattern are for Matt 22:45:05, 22:45:13, 22:45:30. Given the quick succession these are either very short calls or sms... either way, can't be Gerry on a lengthy phone call that was witnessed ...

Rachel pings 22:51:24 then Matt pings 22:51:25 - 1 second diff
Matt pings 22:58:29 then Rachel pings 22:58:34 - 5 seconds diff
Rachel pings 22:59:12 then Matt pings 22:59:17 - 5 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:00:18 then Rachel pings 23:00:22 - 4 seconds diff
Matt pings 23:05:44 then Rachel pings 23:05:48 - 4 seconds diff
Rachel and Matt ping together at 23:06:17
Matt pings 23:24:31 then Rachel pings 23:24:41 - 10 seconds diff

by russiandoll 27.05.12 22:56

you beat me to that one !
was about to say " Gerry pretending to be on telephone...."

by Ribisl 27.05.12 23:47

03/05 Jane Tanner - unidentifiable man carrying a child, running

'After the search of the interior, his colleague went to check the area around the apartments and the Tapas Bar, while the witness remained next to the apartment, just outside it. At that moment a female individual, he did not know whether she was a member of the group of friends, who was in the neighbouring apartment, said that she saw an individual carrying a child, running, and that because of the pyjamas she was wearing it could have been Madeleine. It was in these circumstances that abduction began to be talked about. He made a report about this situation and sent it to the police.

This sighting did not seem to him to be very credible, because when he asked her about the physical characteristics of the individual, she said it was very dark, however she saw the pyjamas clearly.'

- by Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa (GNR Patrol) - 3rd witness statement from the PJ files, 17 October 2007

Dark skinned individual, male sex, aged between 35 – 40, slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back (she could only see him from behind). He was wearing linen type cloth trousers, beige to golden in colour, a "duffy" type jacket (but not that thick). His shoes were dark in colour, classic type. He had a hurried walk. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. By the way he was dressed, he gave her the impression that he was not a tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed".

- by Jane Tanner - witness statement 04 May 2007, 11.30am

by Ribisl 28.05.12 0:00

05/05 - Philomena McCann - someone with malicious intent

It is obvious that someone with malicious intent went through that window and took Madeleine from the safety and security of her family.

Sky News Video

by Ribisl 28.05.12 0:10

06/05 - PJ - a paedophile

Police searching for Madeleine McCann, the British toddler abducted while on holiday in Portugal, fear she has been seized by a paedophile.

Officers have a prime suspect but were last night refusing to release any details, including a sketch, for fear of endangering Madeleine's life.
They believe the girl, whose fourth birthday falls this week, is alive and may be being held no more than three miles from where she was abducted. They fear they are now in a race against time to find Madeleine, known as Maddy, before she is murdered.

The Telegraph

by jd 28.05.12 0:31

Dark skinned individual, male sex, aged between 35 – 40, slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back (she could only see him from behind).

...so how could jane tanner a few days later identify this as robert murat? and in a smoked out car with the imo totally corrupt LPP? This is a very serious allegation

Lori Campbell was sent to Praia da Luz to cover the Madeleine McCann case. Within three days, she thought she had reasonable grounds to suspect Murat of involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. She reported him to Leicestershire Police in a telephone call on Sunday 6 May. Only a few days later, as we shall explore below, one of the McCanns’ close friends, the so-called ‘Tapas 9’, Jane Tanner, claimed that Murat was the person she had seen carrying a young girl near the McCanns’ apartment on the evening of 3 May. Just two days after that, another three of the ‘Tapas 9’ also reported seeing Robert Murat close to the McCanns’ apartment the evening Madeleine went missing, a claim he strenuously denied.

It seems that, between them, those four - Jane Tanner, Fiona Payne, Dr Russell O’Brien and Rachael Oldfield/Mampilly - made a determined attempt, for whatever reason, to smear Murat as the likely abductor. Much later, in an interview with the newspaper Expresso, published on 29 September 2007, Clarence Mitchell was asked: “Whilst you were a journalist, following the case of Jessica and Holly in Soham, the children were found dead 2 weeks later. Did you predict the same ending to this case?” Mitchell replied: “I thought that by this time she would have been found dead or alive, but an ending similar to the case of Jessica and Holly is possible. I don't want to and can't speak about Robert Murat - but some of the journalists that worked with me in Soham, and that were recently in Portugal, saw similarities between the case and Robert Murat - more than this I will not say”. Given that Mitchell had publicly hinted once again that Robert Murat might turn out to be ‘another Ian Huntley’, it was surprising that when Murat later sued various newspapers for libel, he did not also include Clarence Mitchell.

....The journalists that worked with Clarence mitchell which he refers to is lori campbell. Her husband is Ross Hall (ex NOTW Journalist) who was arrested last year in the phone hacking scandal. Hall, who worked under the name Ross Hindley until September 2006, is believed to be the man who transcribed the "for Neville" email that was sent to private investigator Glenn Mulcaire. It has become a pivotal piece of evidence in the phone-hacking affair

David Payne - NO Phone records available 29 April, 1,2,3 May (hmmmm....why?)

...exactly, why not available?

Jane - no pings after 2030 and this was a call to the Gorrods

...Am sure they are more involved in this than meets the eye. Where did they go for a day and half after landing. Who goes on holiday to a resort and goes missing for a day and half?

So the first entry would be:
3/5 - 23.00 - Paedophile gang has abducted Madeleine. Gerry on the telephone - overheard by G. McKenzie

Was this the call to kate mccann that they both deleted from their mobile phones?

There has only ever been 4 things the mccanns and their entourage have been consistently pushing since day 1:
1. Abduction
2. Criticise and put down the Portuguese police as incompetent at every single given opportunity
3. Religion
4. Physics/Mediums

Which I think were all in order to confuse and cover up the real truth, and was set in motion from the night of May3rd

by **tigger** 28.05.12 8:27

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10670629

This is around the beginning of September 2010 .

Hewlett confesses in a letter to his son that he knows a gypsy friend who knows a gang who abducted Maddie.
Hewlett is conveniently dead, the alleged letter so upset the son that he burned it. But the was not so upset that he failed to pass this information to the media. Don't know where it first appeared - my guess is the son was paid for the story and imo it is a total construct. Possibly 'inspired' by a third party in whose interest it might have been...

Didn't Kate visit some or other paedo in jail?

So september 2010: Hewlett didn't do it, alleged burned letter/confession - gypsy friend in PdL knows the gang who took her.

by **tigger** 28.05.12 14:34

Murat: He is of interest if only because he is nothing like any of the other 'suspects' - there is no hint of paedophilia in the accusations levelled at him. Just that he 'fits the profile'.

6/5 Lori Campbell - that amazing sleuth/journaliste - phones LP to tell them she suspects Murat
13/5 Jane Tanner identifies him positively from a policevan with blacked out windows.
14/5 Murat's house is searched and he is made an arguido (in fact the PJ already had kept an eye on him and had him followed)
15/5 ROB, FP and RM all say they've seen Murat around on the evening of the 3rd/4th.
Many months later - around 24/12/07 Kate tells friends she still suspects Murat
27/1/08 Murat is said not to be the kidnapper - TM no longer suspects him but say he may have been a 'spotter'.

Murat is - rather like Lee Harvey Oswald - a statistically and psychologically unlikely criminal compared to the other suspects.
Since his other actions point to some collusion and because it may have seemed necessary at the time for the media and police to focus on someone who could be found and investigated - I'm convinced he conceded to being the patsy.
Therefore I don't think he ever entered 5a, or personally took an active part in hiding the body.
Imo he was 'an accessory after the fact'

Whilst we were being diverted at regular intervals by different abductors - there was always Murat to fall back on - mainly imo. for the press.

by bobbin 28.05.12 15:42

tigger wrote:Murat: He is of interest if only because he is nothing like any of the other 'suspects' - there is no hint of paedophilia in the accusations levelled at him. Just that he 'fits the profile'.

6/5 Lori Campbell - that amazing sleuth/journaliste - phones LP to tell them she suspects Murat
13/5 Jane Tanner identifies him positively from a policevan with blacked out windows.
14/5 Murat's house is searched and he is made an arguido (in fact the PJ already had kept an eye on him and had him followed)
15/5 ROB, FP and RM all say they've seen Murat around on the evening of the 3rd/4th.
Many months later - around 24/12/07 Kate tells friends she still suspects Murat
27/1/08 Murat is said not to be the kidnapper - TM no longer suspects him but say he may have been a 'spotter'.

Murat is - rather like Lee Harvey Oswald - a statistically and psychologically unlikely criminal compared to the other suspects.
Since his other actions point to some collusion and because it may have seemed necessary at the time for the media and police to focus on someone who could be found and investigated - I'm convinced he conceded to being the patsy.
Therefore I don't think he ever entered 5a, or personally took an active part in hiding the body.
Imo he was 'an accessory after the fact'

Whilst we were being diverted at regular intervals by different abductors - there was always Murat to fall back on - mainly imo. for the press.

so is there any info on whether he did see his lawyer for divorce discussions, the reason he returned earlier than planned.

by **tigger** 28.05.12 18:06

http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/

Hi Bobbin, just click on 'articles' - there's a long part on Murat 6 parts.
He had to change his initial account of what he did on arriving back at PdL on 17 points! Sounds like a good match to the Tapas 9.

by bobbin 28.05.12 20:07

tigger wrote:http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/

Hi Bobbin, just click on 'articles' - there's a long part on Murat 6 parts.
He had to change his initial account of what he did on arriving back at PdL on 17 points! Sounds like a good match to the Tapas 9.

thank you tigger, I've not discovered all of this before... part way through now, will read the rest tomorrow.

by **tigger** 25.03.14 18:51

Someone mentioned in another topic that paedophilia wasn't mentioned in the early days, however it's in the press on the 6th and overheard 1 hour after zero hour.

As to the timing of different abductors - I find it fascinating how the mock-up of Melissa Little? (Not sure of the name) allegedly employed by the FBI seems to have been inspired by a photograph of Hewlett.
These IDs featured in the powerpoint presentation, a topic worth reading.

by **tigger** 26.03.14 7:38

JD wrote:

David Payne - NO Phone records available 29 April, 1,2,3 May (hmmmm....why?)

...exactly, why not available?

Jane - no pings after 2030 and this was a call to the Gorrods

...Am sure they are more involved in this than meets the eye. Where did they go for a day and half after landing. Who goes on holiday to a resort and goes missing for a day and half?

So the first entry would be:
3/5 - 23.00 - Paedophile gang has abducted Madeleine. Gerry on the telephone - overheard by G. McKenzie

Was this the call to kate mccann that they both deleted from their mobile phones?

[/quote]

Either Gerry had another phone because there's also a discrepancy in the time when John McCann said he spoke to Gerry and the list of pings ( see timeline for 3rd May topic) - or he was phoning Kate and the gang of paedophiles speech was part of the evening's performance.
Imo an extra phone would be needed during the preparations that night and there are those photographs of Wright and GM texting whilst standing in the sea by the rocks. To find a phone imo.

Point is: paedos were on the menu as from zero hour and Alex Woolfall may say that the P word wasn't mentioned in the first few weeks but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary and he must have missed the Telegraph article of the 6th.
A PR man who doesn't keep his finger on thepulse, tut, tut.

by canada12 26.03.14 8:04

tigger wrote:Someone mentioned in another topic that paedophilia wasn't mentioned in the early days, however it's in the press on the 6th and overheard 1 hour after zero hour.

I think it was me who mentioned it, Tigger.

Yes, the possibility that Madeleine had been abducted for "sexual abuse" was actually mentioned by the Portuguese police almost right away, and it was in the press very early on.

I probably should have qualified my argument better. The idea of "sexual abuse" was there in the press but only in terms of the abductor. And it was discussed in the chat groups very delicately.

I agree with those who suggest that the idea was promoted early on by the McCanns in case Madeleine's body was found and there may have been signs of sexual abuse there.

But again, only in terms of the abductor.

If anyone dared to tiptoe around the idea that sexual abuse might have been happening within the inner circle and with the parents' knowledge, they were harrassed and bullied by the pro Trolls very quickly.