Re: The creche enquiry

by ROSA 05.08.11 0:33

kikoraton wrote:Can anyone estimate the height of the girl climbing the steps? The McCs said maddie was 90cm tall. Ridiculous, if the play-park photo is genuine!

Is 90cm to tall kiko?

by Guest 05.08.11 8:55

According to the M&S size guides for young girls,

90cm is 1.5-2 years of age
98cm is 2-3 years of age
104cm is 3-4 years of age

Kate usually buys bigger clothes if Sean's red t shirt is anything to go by. Or perhaps that was Madeleine's red t shirt he was seen wearing.

As you can see from the size chart above, Madeleine should have been approx 14 cm's bigger than the McCann's claim she was. 90cm is even smaller than the twins actual age.

Why would they need her to be smaller than she actually was?

by Guest 05.08.11 12:08

We know now that there's doubt as to whether or not Madeleine had the coloboma condition. If I can assume for a moment that she did, there are various other related issues, one of which is delays in growth and development. So she might have been small for her age which would explain how she looked in the poolside photo and in the airport bus video where she looks tiny in relation to the twins. That of course doesn't explain the taller, older-looking girl at the tennis court. In the words of Gerry - confusion is good.

by jd 05.08.11 16:21

Does anyone know the date of when this video was released?

I am working on an assumption that this was a reactive response

by Guest 05.08.11 17:47

jd wrote:Does anyone know the date of when this video was released?

I am working on an assumption that this was a reactive response

Do you mean the airport bus video. It was around Day 24 or just after,of Madeleine missing according to Gerry's blog diary...................

Day 24 - 27/05/2007 - Sunday

Strange day after all the activity during the week. Kate and I started off with an early morning run to the the top of the nearby cliffs. Sean and Amelie were back in kids club and went swimming again. The rest of us attended mass which was very emotional as a priest from RAF Lossiemouth was visiting and further prayers were said for Madeleine. Father Zee-Manuel has also rigged up a powerpoint display projecting a large photograph of Madeleine on to the wall, which he is very proud of and reminds us of the beautiful little girl we are missing so terribly.

There have been some requests for more information ‘about Madeleine’ and this section will be updated very soon. We will also be releasing a very short video of Madeleine taken at the Airport on the day we left for Portugal, Saturday 28 April. Sean and Amelie went to the beach this afternoon with mummy, auntie Trisha and Anne but daddy stayed in the apartment catching up on campaign e-mails, making calls and liaising with Clarence our press officer. The resort is much busier again as it is half-term and there are definitely less journalists here. Many of them have been here since the beginning and are making this journey with us.

The couple of Sunday articles we read did not cover much of what we talked about and seemed to get some of the other stuff wrong! We stated that Sean and Amelie are sleeping in our room (in separate cots) because of other family staying with us and that we were trying to treat them as normal and not be overprotective. This came out that we were so protective we have to have them sleeping in our bed! These inaccuracies are not important in our search for Madeleine and the next phase is being planned currently.

It looks like our planned trips to other European cities will start off in Rome after we learned today that the Pope has been following Madeleine’s abduction closely. There is a reasonable chance we may get a chance to meet the Pontiff and that he will pray for Madeleine. Such a visit would generate huge publicity regarding the family campaign to find Madeleine and will also give Kate and I a great spiritual lift. It will also raise the awareness of missing and abused children generally. We continue to pray that someone will provide the key information that leads us to Madeleine.

There is a link to the airport bus video, next to the day on Pamalam's excellent site.

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by **kikoraton** 05.08.11 20:41

I think the substitute for Madeleine was small for her age. Perhaps she is the one who has a coloboma (sp?)

by ROSA 05.08.11 20:43

Stella wrote:According to the M&S size guides for young girls,

90cm is 1.5-2 years of age
98cm is 2-3 years of age
104cm is 3-4 years of age

Kate usually buys bigger clothes if Sean's red t shirt is anything to go by. Or perhaps that was Madeleine's red t shirt he was seen wearing.

As you can see from the size chart above, Madeleine should have been approx 14 cm's bigger than the McCann's claim she was. 90cm is even smaller than the twins actual age.

Why would they need her to be smaller than she actually was?

Thankyou for the info Stella
:flower:

by jd 05.08.11 21:02

If its any help with anything, the window in the room was about 91cm from the floor

Thanks Candyfloss for the finding the release date of the video I was thinking that maybe this was a reactive response to allegations that Maddie hit her head in the apartment and killed herself theory ie seeing Maddie falling on the steps. GM has been quoted as saying the blood on the wall in the apartment was due to Maddie falling and grazing her knee going up the plane steps at Midlands airport! Poor Maddie, she must have been bleeding for about 5 hours, shame there wasn't a GP around to help and put a bandage on her!

by Guest 05.08.11 21:25

Stella wrote:According to the M&S size guides for young girls,

90cm is 1.5-2 years of age
98cm is 2-3 years of age
104cm is 3-4 years of age

Kate usually buys bigger clothes if Sean's red t shirt is anything to go by. Or perhaps that was Madeleine's red t shirt he was seen wearing.

As you can see from the size chart above, Madeleine should have been approx 14 cm's bigger than the McCann's claim she was. 90cm is even smaller than the twins actual age.

Why would they need her to be smaller than she actually was?

I am sue this has been done already but using the tennis ball dimensions, she comes to 113.9 cm's when I calculate for the tennis pic.

by Guest 06.08.11 15:50

Stella wrote:Question:

On the afternoon of the 30th of April, Kate signs Madeleine in at 15.15, then signs her out again 15 minutes later at 15.30. Or is the 1 something residual carried forward from previous entry and does she mean 5.30?
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Is there anything anywhere from any of Kate's interviews or book, to ever explain why she did this?

Nothing in the book, she mentions going to supermarket with Jane. The records are really strange for 30th pm. It looks like Katie was the only parent who collected a child from Lobster group.

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Twins are signed out at 17.20, Lucy only spends 30 mins in that group and also isn't signed out, very hard to see what happens with Alex. Pretty strange afternoon at the creche.

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by Guest 06.08.11 15:58

I agree Molly and my best guess is, perhaps other people had started to feel something wasn't right.

by Guest 06.08.11 16:29

According to the Lobsters timetable (which it seems didn't always run to schedule) Madeleine would do some pretty fun stuff that week. I'm pretty sure that she would have brought home some of the following: Lobster pictures, postcards, planets, spaceship collage, sand painting moon pictures, happy handprint stars, moving rockets, crazy gloop, crazy construction, funky footprint aliens, alien mobiles, chalk space pictures.

Interesting that these have never been shown by the parents, one would think with their craving for melodrama these items would have been put on display. Maybe I am far too cynical. If it was my child I would cling to the things that she did last and I think that's what I would have carried around instead of cuddle cat.

If I was writing a book about my missing child I sure would have mentioned them. Somewhere.

by Guest 06.08.11 16:32

My thoughts exactly.

by pauline 06.08.11 16:42

I recall when my children came back from playgroup with a painting or drawing I liked, I kept them. I remember one painting I loved which I had framed. And these things were important to me even though my children never went missing.

It is not believable that madeleine didn't produce artwork of some kind for her parents given how long spent in the creche.

In fact the nannys would encourage the creation of artwork so the parents could see that their children were engaged in creative fun activities rather than just being minded.

by jd 06.08.11 17:58

Didn't they rip off a page from the sticker book? Don't think these doctors had any emotional links to their kids at all

by Guest 06.08.11 20:59

I've heard the sticker book previously described as an object of sentimental value and questions asked as to why a page was torn from it. It was just a book after all which could easily be replaced so, if this was the only paper readily available I can understand why it was used. I do however wonder why the friends needed to write down a timeline of events, particularly - if I remember rightly - just after Madeleine had been reported missing and when the most natural thing to do would have been to help look for her as she had more than likely simply wandered off.

by Gillyspot 06.08.11 21:36

Sorry I am struggling with a broken computer keyboard. So please bear with me.

I was shocked personally that Gerry should think it OK to use Madeleine's colouring book to write the timeline on. This would be particularly so if she had already used it. I would have gone to reception for some paper (that would be unless they didn't want any one to know they had the 2 timelines and got caught out).

As a mother I would never have thought of doing that so soon after I feared my child had been "abducted" - maybe a month or so later but not within 2 hours. It would seem like I was writing the child off as unimportant (and getting my side of
the story across was more so)

by jd 07.08.11 1:37

For arguments sake, if my child had just been abducted the very last thing I would do is rip a page from her sticker book. This would be so sacred to me I would treasure it with my life and in realistic terms, there would be other things to write on. Such as the welcome pack documents you get when you arrive on holiday that explain all the rules and regs of the resort. Or rip open the cereal box and write on the inside, to say there wasn't anything else to write on is ludicrous and unbelievable & another fudge of the truth. If my only option was to write on the wall I would do this rather than rip up my precious daughters sticker book. But then I am not a doctor!

by **kikoraton** 07.08.11 8:28

30 April was a rum old day in the Lobsters. "Madeleine" in at 1515, out 15 minutes later. The O'Brien girl not brought in until 1600. And Alexander didn't arrive until 1630!!! Something was going on, and a blanket of silence has been thrown over it.

by Guest 07.08.11 10:10

Something really odd was going on in the twins creche also. On the 29th and the 30th, they were in the Starfish group, but from the 1st of May, they were changed to the Jellyfish group. I can only think that also means a different Nanny.

It looks like the 30th was possibly the start of the 'confusion' stage.

by **PeterMac** 07.08.11 11:03

pauline wrote:I recall when my children came back from playgroup with a painting or drawing I liked, I kept them. I remember one painting I loved which I had framed. And these things were important to me even though my children never went missing.

Indeed so. My mother still has a daub I did when I was very small. And I am now approaching middle age, actually somewhat over 60 !
To throw it away would be unthinkable for her, and I am still alive (I believe ! Hang on I'll just check)

by ROSA 07.08.11 11:36

What is a daub?

by Guest 07.08.11 13:44

Rosa - I would guess that daub is another word for a child's (possibly messy) painting. One dictionary definition is "a painting executed without much skill" but that doesn't mean that it is treasured any the less!

by Newintown 07.08.11 14:43

jd wrote:For arguments sake, if my child had just been abducted the very last thing I would do is rip a page from her sticker book. This would be so sacred to me I would treasure it with my life and in realistic terms, there would be other things to write on. Such as the welcome pack documents you get when you arrive on holiday that explain all the rules and regs of the resort. Or rip open the cereal box and write on the inside, to say there wasn't anything else to write on is ludicrous and unbelievable & another fudge of the truth. If my only option was to write on the wall I would do this rather than rip up my precious daughters sticker book. But then I am not a doctor!

My Mother died 8 years ago but I still keep a shopping list she wrote out shortly before she died as it is in her handwriting. I couldn't bear to part with it.

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by **kikoraton** 07.08.11 16:04

I envisage a crisis meeting at 4/4.30, with parents compelled to attend. That might be why they (O'B and Mann) put their kids into care as late as 4.30.
But why? No wonder Mark Warner called in crisis managers. A lot of people have been told to keep their mouths firmly shut.

by ROSA 08.08.11 0:05

Marian wrote:Rosa - I would guess that daub is another word for a child's (possibly messy) painting. One dictionary definition is "a painting executed without much skill" but that doesn't mean that it is treasured any the less!

Thankyou Marian
:flower:

by Guest 08.08.11 10:10

kikoraton wrote:I envisage a crisis meeting at 4/4.30, with parents compelled to attend. That might be why they (O'B and Mann) put their kids into care as late as 4.30.
But why? No wonder Mark Warner called in crisis managers. A lot of people have been told to keep their mouths firmly shut.

Every one of those parents who put their child into creche late that day needs to be questioned under caution. Only two children went in around the normal time, but even they were not signed out in the normal way. The writing was too feint to be even recognisable, why? The following day 5, yes 5 children, ALL got signed in at precisely 2.30. How interesting, don't you think compared to the day before. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

PM	29		30		1		2		3
	in	out	in	out	in	out	in	out	in	out
Berry	2.30	5.20			2.30	5.30	2.30	4.30
Naylor	2.40	5.20			2.30	4.00
Mann	3.00	5.30	4.30	?	2.50	5.30	2.45	5.30	2.30	5.30
Totman			2.15	?	2.40	5.30			3.30	5.15
McCann	2.45	5.30	3.15	3.30	2.30		2.45	5.30	2.50	5.30
O'Brien	2.45	3.30	4.00		2.30	5.30	2.30	5.30	2.30	4.30
Patel			2.30		2.30	5.30

		did not attend that session
		not signed out that session or writing to feint

by ROSA 08.08.11 10:15

Good work kiko and Stella thumbsup

by Guest 08.08.11 10:20

I've just noticed something else, the Totman child was signed in at 2.15 that day. Creche starts at 2.30 and on no other day has any child been signed in that early.

I wonder what was so special about that day?