Re: The creche enquiry

by comperedna 28.08.14 15:52

Petermac... My currently three year old granddaughter can cope with several sorts of doors, including the stiff external back door.

by MissesWillYa 28.08.14 16:25

I find the twins' sound sleeping during the "alarm" period very troubling. But I don't see what's so odd about them sleeping in those travel beds. We had one for our children and they both slept in it away from home until they were about three years old, around the same time we switched them from the crib (cot) at home. I put a fitted sheet on the little mattress inside the travel bed and gave them a light blanket and they slept just fine. Nobody ever tipped it over or tried to climb out. Maybe we're just lucky. I wasn't concerned, though. Most people I knew used them with toddlers while traveling. I am in the US, so it's possible ours was larger or sturdier than what is available in Europe? I don't know. I can say that my son, who was just over 36 inches tall at his third birthday, could sleep stretched out and comfortable in it around that time, which he did while he stayed with his grandparents during his younger sister's birth. So for me, the fact of the Mc twins sleeping in the cots doesn't raise any concern or doubt, and doesn't seem like it could only be achieved by drugging them, though I do think something like that may have been going on but for other reasons. Just my humble opinion.

by nglfi 28.08.14 16:45

nglfi wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It was Russell O'Brien who wrote the timeline (thanks to J Rob for reminding me who it was) and it's my understanding that he didn't know the McCanns as well as the Paynes did.
Thanks NFWTD, so it was known at the time that he didn't know the McCanns that well. Begs the question why they would entrust him with something so important as timelines. I can't imagine myself getting so involved in a reconstruction like this if I didn't know the people that well, unless of course I also had something to lose by the 'right' sequence of events not being given to the police.

I'm just watching the RTE Late Late show interview, and Gerry says that he knew Russell from having worked with him for 6 months, it's from about 7 mins in. He gives the impression that he was reasonably good friends with him, and he then goes on to say the Paynes were their best friends and they knew them better. So to me it does seem strange that Russell couldn't spell his friend's name if they had worked together for 6 months and had presumably seen each other's names written down. Perhaps I'm making too much out of this but the way the timeline is written just leaps out at me for several different reasons. Writing 'Jerry' really does look like Russell wasn't aware it was short for Gerald. Or maybe in the stressed atmosphere he just spelt it wrong smilie

by j.rob 28.08.14 17:19

I wonder if Madeleine was removed from the apartment/resort on Wednesday (evening)? Which would account for Kate claiming she thought the abductor had done a 'dummy run' on Wednesday evening and could have drugged Madeleine as she was so sleepy on Thursday? Kate even suggests that the abductor could have drugged Madeleine (and the twins?) on Thursday in the day.

One of the reasons I can think of for Kate making this claim is that Madeleine (and the twins?) HAD been drugged during the week and that the Mcs needed to cover their backs in the event that Madeleine was found and/or in the event that the twins were tested for sedatives/found to be in a drug-induced coma.

It obviously also answers the question as to how (someone) could take a sleeping Madeleine away without waking her up and without disturbing the twins.

Perhaps Wednesday was 'D' day in terms of Madeleine being hidden. All three children (assuming Madeleine was still alive at this point?) sedated to facilitate the procedure.

Thursday was the evening of the staged 'enactment'. With, maybe, Ella being used as the 'Madeleine' stand-in to give credence to the mystery abduction theory?

by comperedna 28.08.14 17:52

I think the UK travel cots must be MUCH smaller than the US ones. As soon as a child can stand and climb a bit, they are not really safe. That would account for the difference. I don't know about the ones in Portugal.

Now, more grown up, my grandchildren are very polite, helpful and 'biddable'. However at ages 2 and 3, I was on the phone with an urgent call and the two of my own children left their toys, with which they had been happily playing, and went into the kitchen of our small flat unseen. The younger one, who DID know it was naughty, opened the fridge door. My three year old daughter, who even more knew it was wrong, 'egged' (sorry) him on. He took a pack of half-a-dozen eggs and shied them all over the kitchen floor. Then they both poked the yolks until they split. It was the giggles and general hilarity over this latter activity that caused me to break off the call and run in there. My point being that at that age, especially if playing together, children can never really be left to their own devices.

by comperedna 28.08.14 18:01

I do not think it would be possible for another three year old to be passed off as Madeleine at the creche. There is no way a child of that age would not give the game away. 'My name isn't Madeleine you know' etc. You could not swear a child to secrecy at age 3+ either.

by juliet 28.08.14 18:08

I just can't believe any of that gang left their children alone. Only Rachel sounds callous enough ("The baby was so smelly and leaky in her growbag") but I can't imagine any of the others doing it. For what, anyway? To spend night after night with the same people in the same not very exciting restaurant? They were surely not so bereft of entertainment in their ordinary lives that this seemed like fun?
But if they didn't leave the children alone, what did they do? I wouldn't care to babysit all those babies and toddlers on my own (if the 'sick' person babysitting is true). They would have to be drugged though, whichever way you look at it.

by comperedna 28.08.14 18:15

I agree, Juliet. I think someone was likely with them, all together. I don't know if Madeleine was with all the others. Maybe, for some reason... she was in flat 5a on her own.

by juliet 28.08.14 18:39

Many believe that Madeleine was absent from just about the start of the holiday. In which case, swerving off topic, who did Mrs Fenn hear? In the Irish TV interview Gerry starts saying Amelie was crying on the Tuesday night and Kate butts in quickly to head him off.

by MissesWillYa 28.08.14 19:04

comperedna wrote:I think the UK travel cots must be MUCH smaller than the US ones. As soon as a child can stand and climb a bit, they are not really safe. That would account for the difference. I don't know about the ones in Portugal.

Now, more grown up, my grandchildren are very polite, helpful and 'biddable'. However at ages 2 and 3, I was on the phone with an urgent call and the two of my own children left their toys, with which they had been happily playing, and went into the kitchen of our small flat unseen. The younger one, who DID know it was naughty, opened the fridge door. My three year old daughter, who even more knew it was wrong, 'egged' (sorry) him on. He took a pack of half-a-dozen eggs and shied them all over the kitchen floor. Then they both poked the yolks until they split. It was the giggles and general hilarity over this latter activity that caused me to break off the call and run in there. My point being that at that age, especially if playing together, children can never really be left to their own devices.

I totally agree! I think these people sound like idiots if they really left their kids alone like this. I wouldn't do it, that's for sure. I don't necessarily believe it's really what they did either, though...

by j.rob 26.10.14 20:56

Guest wrote:Did you know that as a "Madeleine" was signed out of creche at 5.30 on the 3rd, with the alarm being raised at 10pm.

That's 4.5 hours for "Madeleine" to leave the resort and exit the country with her parents. All totally legit and above board.

Do you remember the taxi driver who swears he had "Madeleine" in his taxi at 8.10pm and after a fairly short journey the group transferred into a jeep heading for somewhere ? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Good thinking!

by HelenMeg 27.10.14 10:53

juliet wrote:I just can't believe any of that gang left their children alone. Only Rachel sounds callous enough ("The baby was so smelly and leaky in her growbag") but I can't imagine any of the others doing it. For what, anyway? To spend night after night with the same people in the same not very exciting restaurant? They were surely not so bereft of entertainment in their ordinary lives that this seemed like fun?
But if they didn't leave the children alone, what did they do? I wouldn't care to babysit all those babies and toddlers on my own (if the 'sick' person babysitting is true). They would have to be drugged though, whichever way you look at it.

I dont think they were ever left alone - apart from the 3rd may in order to enable the abduction. But yes, - what did they do instead? Was it 1 person per night? Even that does not sound very likely - I believe the OC nannies looked after them - 1 or 2 of the nannies. And those nannies have lied IMO about what was going on..

by bobbin 27.10.14 11:08

HelenMeg wrote:
juliet wrote:I just can't believe any of that gang left their children alone. Only Rachel sounds callous enough ("The baby was so smelly and leaky in her growbag") but I can't imagine any of the others doing it. For what, anyway? To spend night after night with the same people in the same not very exciting restaurant? They were surely not so bereft of entertainment in their ordinary lives that this seemed like fun?
But if they didn't leave the children alone, what did they do? I wouldn't care to babysit all those babies and toddlers on my own (if the 'sick' person babysitting is true). They would have to be drugged though, whichever way you look at it.
I dont think they were ever left alone - apart from the 3rd may in order to enable the abduction. But yes, - what did they do instead? Was it 1 person per night? Even that does not sound very likely - I believe the OC nannies looked after them - 1 or 2 of the nannies. And those nannies have lied IMO about what was going on..

I agree about the nannies possibly looking after the children and would also look far more intensely at their (conflicting) statements. Again, not quite adding up, especially with the photo printer.
Then of course they were moved off very quickly, yet have since met up with the McCs.
I can't say that I'm convinced that Madeleine however was in the group of children being watched over by the nannies, if indeed they were overseeing the children.

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