The creche enquiry
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Research and Analysis :: Guests and Ocean Club facilities + Telephone/Creche Records
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Gonçalo Amaral
by ROSA 30.06.11 23:51
On May 4th, the parents authorise us to check the phone calls logged on their mobile. - Here's a copy of the summary of calls. - I only have that of the couple. We have yet to receive the summary from BTS (*) - OK, what have we got? - Do you see what I see? - Yes, I think so: between April 27th and May 4th, Kate did not make any calls. Hum... - None either, between 11.22am and 11.17pm on the night of the disappearance. - Kate mustn't like making telephone calls... - For Gerald, there's nothing before May 4th at exactly 12.15am - What does that mean? They never made phone calls then? - Wait, there's something here. Look at the number at the top of the list. - Yes, so? - On her telephone, her husbands' number is logged: she called him on May 3rd at 11.17pm, but on Gerald's, nothing, no trace of that call! - How can that be explained? - It's simple as anything: the list of calls has been deleted. - Always the same old question: why? Summing up: the first phone calls were exchanged one hour after the disappearance. It could be imagined that in that lapse of time, they were busy looking for their
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Re: The creche enquiry
by kikoraton 01.07.11 8:00
Is it really 2km from 5A to the Millenium? Where is the Millenium?
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 8:32
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Top right, just above number 14, you will see the 'Mirage'. This is the Millennium restaurant.
Top right, just above number 14, you will see the 'Mirage'. This is the Millennium restaurant.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 8:37
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Looking at this map and following the road it looks some way away. But as the crow flies and using paths to cut through the middle of the complex, it probably cut the distnace in half.
The 3 tennis courts right beside the Millennium restaurant has always interested me..
Looking at this map and following the road it looks some way away. But as the crow flies and using paths to cut through the middle of the complex, it probably cut the distnace in half.
The 3 tennis courts right beside the Millennium restaurant has always interested me..
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:32
Jane does not mention booking the crèche, even when prompted about everything that she booked !!
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4078 "What were your intentions for the holiday at that stage?”
Reply "In terms of?”
4078 "How many activities you would be doing and what the children would be doing.”
Reply "Ah right, err we didn’t really think, I think we thought Exxxx would definitely be
going to the kids club because as I explained before I almost felt bad that she wasn’t
getting that much kid attention in Exeter. Err and Exx probably go to the kids club in
the morning but then stay with us, stay with us in the afternoon and that morning would give, well me a break you know to do, to do something else but at that point I hadn’t really, I hadn’t really thought about what that would be or, you know, whatever.”
04.52 4078 "So during the welcome meeting did you have to sign up to anything regular or was it
just available if you want it?”
Reply "Err, you signed up then and that’s when I signed up for the tennis which I hadn’t
really been planning to do but then I think Kate was signing up for that and then I just
thought yeah that’d be a, that’d be a nice, you know, something nice to do.”
4078 "Was that an event that was going to happen every morning?”
Reply "Yeah that was a tennis lesson every morning, I think it was at, I think it was nine o’
clock but it might have been nine thirty but it was every morning until the end of the
week.”
4078 "Was there anything else that you signed up for?”
Reply "Err I signed up for, actually I think, thinking about it I think I signed up for the
tennis later, no, yeah I did I signed up for the tennis later and I did a taster session
because at that first welcome meeting I signed up for windsurfing and sailing because
I was like I’ve got some time to do stuff so it was always like we had, you know, I
thought, so I signed up for the windsurfing and the sailing but then later on they did a
sort of a social tennis and that’s when I decided okay, right, I’ll do the tennis instead.”
05.52 4078 "Something’s got to give.”
Reply "Yeah, so, it’s supposed to be a holiday, so yeah then I didn’t do the sailing then.”
4078 "Okay, I shan’t ask you all about Russell because he’ll be covering that on his
interview anyway.”
Reply "Mm.”
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4078 "What were your intentions for the holiday at that stage?”
Reply "In terms of?”
4078 "How many activities you would be doing and what the children would be doing.”
Reply "Ah right, err we didn’t really think, I think we thought Exxxx would definitely be
going to the kids club because as I explained before I almost felt bad that she wasn’t
getting that much kid attention in Exeter. Err and Exx probably go to the kids club in
the morning but then stay with us, stay with us in the afternoon and that morning would give, well me a break you know to do, to do something else but at that point I hadn’t really, I hadn’t really thought about what that would be or, you know, whatever.”
04.52 4078 "So during the welcome meeting did you have to sign up to anything regular or was it
just available if you want it?”
Reply "Err, you signed up then and that’s when I signed up for the tennis which I hadn’t
really been planning to do but then I think Kate was signing up for that and then I just
thought yeah that’d be a, that’d be a nice, you know, something nice to do.”
4078 "Was that an event that was going to happen every morning?”
Reply "Yeah that was a tennis lesson every morning, I think it was at, I think it was nine o’
clock but it might have been nine thirty but it was every morning until the end of the
week.”
4078 "Was there anything else that you signed up for?”
Reply "Err I signed up for, actually I think, thinking about it I think I signed up for the
tennis later, no, yeah I did I signed up for the tennis later and I did a taster session
because at that first welcome meeting I signed up for windsurfing and sailing because
I was like I’ve got some time to do stuff so it was always like we had, you know, I
thought, so I signed up for the windsurfing and the sailing but then later on they did a
sort of a social tennis and that’s when I decided okay, right, I’ll do the tennis instead.”
05.52 4078 "Something’s got to give.”
Reply "Yeah, so, it’s supposed to be a holiday, so yeah then I didn’t do the sailing then.”
4078 "Okay, I shan’t ask you all about Russell because he’ll be covering that on his
interview anyway.”
Reply "Mm.”
Guest- Guest
Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:36
Russell does not mention anything about the crèche bookings.
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We all went to the welcome meeting at the Tapas Bar on Saturday and I think that we may have gone to another one but I cannot be sure. (page 3) I recall that they spoke about where to eat, the nannies introduced themselves and I recall that there were various people there from the sporting activities recruiting for their events/activities.
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We all went to the welcome meeting at the Tapas Bar on Saturday and I think that we may have gone to another one but I cannot be sure. (page 3) I recall that they spoke about where to eat, the nannies introduced themselves and I recall that there were various people there from the sporting activities recruiting for their events/activities.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:39
Rachel sounds very nervous discussing the crèche first day arrangements !!
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what did we do on the Sunday, well G***e went to crèche in the morning with E**a and E**e, L**y and S*****t, well all the kids went to crèche, but there were Madeleine and E**a because they’re older went to a different, they went down, their crèche was sort of near the main reception of the Ocean Club, whereas the rest of them, there was E**a, Madeleine and E**a were down in the main reception of the Ocean Club and so was S*****t, cos the sort of baby crèche was down there as well and then the rest of them were with the crèche pretty much just behind the Tapas Bar, so they were all in there. So G***e went to crèche can’t remember what I did, probably tried to get some sun, it was quite, a bit chilly though but we would have picked up G***e from crèche at sort of twelve, half twelve I think and then that first day I think we just had lunch sort of in the Tapas but the menu wasn’t really that suitable for your kids and then took her back to the room to have a sleep, and then while she slept, we just kind of read outside on the, on the balcony on the veranda, that morning, there might have been some sort of tennis, social I think perhaps”.
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what did we do on the Sunday, well G***e went to crèche in the morning with E**a and E**e, L**y and S*****t, well all the kids went to crèche, but there were Madeleine and E**a because they’re older went to a different, they went down, their crèche was sort of near the main reception of the Ocean Club, whereas the rest of them, there was E**a, Madeleine and E**a were down in the main reception of the Ocean Club and so was S*****t, cos the sort of baby crèche was down there as well and then the rest of them were with the crèche pretty much just behind the Tapas Bar, so they were all in there. So G***e went to crèche can’t remember what I did, probably tried to get some sun, it was quite, a bit chilly though but we would have picked up G***e from crèche at sort of twelve, half twelve I think and then that first day I think we just had lunch sort of in the Tapas but the menu wasn’t really that suitable for your kids and then took her back to the room to have a sleep, and then while she slept, we just kind of read outside on the, on the balcony on the veranda, that morning, there might have been some sort of tennis, social I think perhaps”.
Guest- Guest
Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:42
Matt drops another clanger with some children unhappy being left at crèche...
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the kids were always sort of really confident and they were the least misbehaved, well not misbehaved, they were the least upset when they dropped them off at Nursery, at crèche, it was all really good and it was all sort of, they were sort of very good at, if they did something wrong, they said no and sort of explaining it properly and why it was naughty to do that sort of thing, it was all sort of very appropriate and almost by the book, and it seemed a bit sort of casual to sort of like leave the door open, but then they had sort of an older daughter, so and older children might get nightmares, so it seemed as though there might be a reasonable explanation, but although I thought it was odd at the time, I didn’t say, do you normally leave your door or anything like that”.
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the kids were always sort of really confident and they were the least misbehaved, well not misbehaved, they were the least upset when they dropped them off at Nursery, at crèche, it was all really good and it was all sort of, they were sort of very good at, if they did something wrong, they said no and sort of explaining it properly and why it was naughty to do that sort of thing, it was all sort of very appropriate and almost by the book, and it seemed a bit sort of casual to sort of like leave the door open, but then they had sort of an older daughter, so and older children might get nightmares, so it seemed as though there might be a reasonable explanation, but although I thought it was odd at the time, I didn’t say, do you normally leave your door or anything like that”.
Guest- Guest
Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:46
What is very obvious when reading everyone’s statements concerning the crèche arrangements, is that no one mentions booking it before they left, or after they arrived. At the Rogatory interviews, no one asks them a direct question on the subject either. Tanner was the only one who was specifically asked what things she booked at the welcome meeting and still does not mention it. They were all introduced to the crèche nannies at the welcome meeting, yet no one mentions talking to them or booking any child in. All very strange indeed.
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Statements as clear as mud
by Guest 01.07.11 9:49
What strikes me with the statements of the McCanns and their friends is the rambling and repetitive nature of them. I have to say that I've never been interviewed by the police and don't know how I would react but it seems to me that they weren't sure of what they were saying. If they were telling the truth, wouldn't they (especially as they are well educated people) be a little more together and fluent?
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 9:53
Had they been interrogated using questions starting with Who, What, Where, How, When, Why and were made to answer those questions, the transcripts would contain 60% less paper. As it was they were allowed and even encouraged to waffle on to their hearts content.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 01.07.11 12:30
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]dewi lennard
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s call at 1224 on 3/5 was with Prof Iain B Squire, Leics University cardio/pharmaceutical. Nil further till GM told world "abducted"
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Remember the 3rd is the day that Kate for the first time all week, signs "Madeleine" out of the morning creche.
Notice the time of Gerry's call, with the time Kate is at creche.
Then no more activity happens with Gerry's phone until after the alarm is then raised.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s call at 1224 on 3/5 was with Prof Iain B Squire, Leics University cardio/pharmaceutical. Nil further till GM told world "abducted"
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Stella wrote:
sun mon tue wed thur Lobsters 29 30 1 2 3 AM in 9.45 9.30 9.30 9.20 9.10 AM out 12.15 12.10 12.20 12.30 12.25 PM in 2.45 3.15 2.30 2.45 2.50 PM out 5.30 3.30 5.30 5.30 KM signed GM signed Madeleine not signed out
Remember the 3rd is the day that Kate for the first time all week, signs "Madeleine" out of the morning creche.
Notice the time of Gerry's call, with the time Kate is at creche.
Then no more activity happens with Gerry's phone until after the alarm is then raised.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by kikoraton 01.07.11 22:13
If according to that map, Lagos is 2km away. them the restaurant is hardly 2 km from anywhere inside the complex. A fewhundred metres, at the most. Sloppy reporting in the book quoted!
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It is from Goncalos book The Forbiidden Investigation
by ROSA 02.07.11 0:00
ROSA wrote: THE ROUTINE IS ESTABLISHED Sunday April 29th On the morning of Sunday April 29th, at around 8.40am, the McCann couple and their children again walk the 2 kilometres that separate them from the Millenium to have breakfast. Then, the children are entrusted to the play leaders - Madeleine to the daycare centre in the building that houses the main reception of the tourist complex, while Sean and Amelie stay at the playgroup, near the Tapas restaurant, that takes the youngest children. At around 12.30pm, the parents come and fetch them for lunch, play with them sometimes in the swimming pool or in the play area, then, at around 2.30pm, take them back to the play leaders, with whom they stay until 5.30pm. Sometimes the children have dinner with them.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by ROSA 02.07.11 3:56
GOING BACK TO THE OCEAN CLUB
On the day of arrival at the Ocean Club, a small welcome ceremony is organised at the Tapas restaurant, from 5pm – 6.30pm. Everybody participates, including the children, who spend their time enjoying themselves in the play area. After this reception, the holiday-makers go to the Millenium restaurant, situated nearly 2 kilometres from the apartments, at the entrance to the village of Luz. It’s a long way and Gerald and Kate have to carry the twins. Madeleine walks all the way. Between 7 and 8pm, they dine in the restaurant with other members of the group. The return journey is also on foot. At 9pm, the children are in bed. This is how the first rather tiring day goes. The parents realise that it won’t be easy to walk that distance every day at meal times and start to consider other alternatives.
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On the day of arrival at the Ocean Club, a small welcome ceremony is organised at the Tapas restaurant, from 5pm – 6.30pm. Everybody participates, including the children, who spend their time enjoying themselves in the play area. After this reception, the holiday-makers go to the Millenium restaurant, situated nearly 2 kilometres from the apartments, at the entrance to the village of Luz. It’s a long way and Gerald and Kate have to carry the twins. Madeleine walks all the way. Between 7 and 8pm, they dine in the restaurant with other members of the group. The return journey is also on foot. At 9pm, the children are in bed. This is how the first rather tiring day goes. The parents realise that it won’t be easy to walk that distance every day at meal times and start to consider other alternatives.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 8:35
So Kate's pulling a fast one then, trying to make out it was much further than it actually was. Typical.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by pauline 02.07.11 10:47
ROSA wrote:Was maddie and e payne born on the same day ?
why would that be relevant? They are I understand very close in age.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by ROSA 02.07.11 11:15
Charlotte said...
I’m the first to admit that I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but there has been a few things in the McCann case that makes me wonder.
Anyway, as you mentioned about the ‘other twins’ I thought you may be interested in what is being said on the Mirror Forum with regard the possibility that Madeleine maybe one of twins: A Fourth Child?
Sunday, 23 December 2007 17:50:00 GMT
felicity said...
Thanks Charlotte
As the poster on the Mirror is worried it might get deleted I thought I would post it here - because I have no intention of deleting anything that may prove interesting. This child does seem to have been born some months before Madeleine but it is interesting the birth is registered in Somerset - Exeter is of course in Somerset - the home of Tanner and O'Brien!
I'm going to post this, and hopefully the thread won't be deleted...
I was looking for the birth details of Madeleine, Sean and Amelie on ancestry.co.uk - you can look up the registration details (not actual birth dates) plus mother's maiden names...
I found Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, but I also discovered another child registered as being born, in January 2003, to a father whose last name is McCann, and a mother whose last name is Healy. The place is registration is Somerset.
I wonder how many McCann - Healy couples there are out there? I looked up marriage records and there is only one couple with those surnames who were married between 1984 and 2005. It is possible the couple with the same last names were not married, so there would be no record.
I also looked up death registrations, and there is no record of this child dying between 2003 and 2005. So this child is still alive.
I won't post the child's name because of privacy issues.
The obvious question comes to mind, if this child is registered in january 2003, and is the daughter of Gerry and Kate, how could Madeleine's birth be registered in June 2003 and her birthday be in May 2003?
Were these two children actually twins, and were actually born in January 2003 (not May)?
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I’m the first to admit that I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but there has been a few things in the McCann case that makes me wonder.
Anyway, as you mentioned about the ‘other twins’ I thought you may be interested in what is being said on the Mirror Forum with regard the possibility that Madeleine maybe one of twins: A Fourth Child?
Sunday, 23 December 2007 17:50:00 GMT
felicity said...
Thanks Charlotte
As the poster on the Mirror is worried it might get deleted I thought I would post it here - because I have no intention of deleting anything that may prove interesting. This child does seem to have been born some months before Madeleine but it is interesting the birth is registered in Somerset - Exeter is of course in Somerset - the home of Tanner and O'Brien!
I'm going to post this, and hopefully the thread won't be deleted...
I was looking for the birth details of Madeleine, Sean and Amelie on ancestry.co.uk - you can look up the registration details (not actual birth dates) plus mother's maiden names...
I found Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, but I also discovered another child registered as being born, in January 2003, to a father whose last name is McCann, and a mother whose last name is Healy. The place is registration is Somerset.
I wonder how many McCann - Healy couples there are out there? I looked up marriage records and there is only one couple with those surnames who were married between 1984 and 2005. It is possible the couple with the same last names were not married, so there would be no record.
I also looked up death registrations, and there is no record of this child dying between 2003 and 2005. So this child is still alive.
I won't post the child's name because of privacy issues.
The obvious question comes to mind, if this child is registered in january 2003, and is the daughter of Gerry and Kate, how could Madeleine's birth be registered in June 2003 and her birthday be in May 2003?
Were these two children actually twins, and were actually born in January 2003 (not May)?
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Miraflores 02.07.11 12:04
Exeter is, of course, the county town of Devon!interesting the birth is registered in Somerset - Exeter is of course in Somerset
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 12:09
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Re: The creche enquiry
by ROSA 02.07.11 12:42
i think there are secrets that photo its like looking at twins
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Twins?
by Guest 02.07.11 12:47
With respect Rosa, I don't see how a photo of the back of a child's head enables anyone to judge who she might resemble. Are there any known photos of Jane Tanner's elder daughter available in the public domain?
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Re: The creche enquiry
by ROSA 02.07.11 12:56
Not all twin are 100% identical but they can look very much alike i think there are photos of her in greyscale
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Photos again
by Guest 02.07.11 13:50
We seem to have strayed from the original topic again don't we? I wonder if the child seen with her back to the camera in the playground photo (see page 36 of "The last photo" topic) - and who cannot be Amelie because of the hair colour - could be Jane Tanner's daughter?
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Re: The creche enquiry
by ROSA 02.07.11 14:17
The child who is being signed in to creche as M is another child so i think this is very much part of the topic Tanners child has blonde hair the playground child has brown hair
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 15:31
Marian wrote:We seem to have strayed from the original topic again don't we? I wonder if the child seen with her back to the camera in the playground photo (see page 36 of "The last photo" topic) - and who cannot be Amelie because of the hair colour - could be Jane Tanner's daughter?
Absolutely not. That child is the wrong age and did not appear in Madeleine's creche group
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 15:47
I have been carefully picking through Catriona Baker's statement, word for word and have found a few interesting things.
"I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club".
Which is a bit odd in itself. In everyone else's statements, many of them claim to have been introduced to all of the nanny's at the welcome meeting, which I thought took place on that Saturday afternoon of the 28th ?
Which means, Catriona Baker would not have seen Madeleine on the 28th, only on the 29th at 9.45 am. Which in itself is very interesting for everyone who is still not convinced that the child introduced to her as Maddie or Madeleine, may not have been Madeleine Beth McCann. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
"I got to know Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, in the Minis Club".
Which is a bit odd in itself. In everyone else's statements, many of them claim to have been introduced to all of the nanny's at the welcome meeting, which I thought took place on that Saturday afternoon of the 28th ?
Which means, Catriona Baker would not have seen Madeleine on the 28th, only on the 29th at 9.45 am. Which in itself is very interesting for everyone who is still not convinced that the child introduced to her as Maddie or Madeleine, may not have been Madeleine Beth McCann. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 15:55
More from Cat;
"They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner".
No mention whatsoever about E**a not being there that first morning, due to being ill, which she should have remembered, as it was during the essential registration process of issuing the bracelets.
"They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children's bracelets which included their name, allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner".
No mention whatsoever about E**a not being there that first morning, due to being ill, which she should have remembered, as it was during the essential registration process of issuing the bracelets.
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Re: The creche enquiry
by Guest 02.07.11 15:58
"Most of the time in which I saw the family together, the children would be eating. The twins appeared tired at lunch, after a long day and also perhaps due to the heat, but I never became preoccupied by the children of by the comportment of the McCann’s".
How did she come to see the twins at lunch? They apparently had lunch back at their apartment.
How did she come to see the twins at lunch? They apparently had lunch back at their apartment.
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