Fiona Payne admits to not knowing where DP was between 6.00 and 7.00pm

by ufercoffy 06.04.10 17:29

Posted by HideHo on MM forum.

Tennis & Other Locations Table for May 3rd here...

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I'm not sure if I have missed any discussion on this before, but while creating the tennis tables (see above link) I came across, not only a major discrepancy (DP claims he was playing tennis until 8.00 FP says he was back in the apartment at 7.10pm) but also Fiona Payne (after first giving specific details in her statement about the whereabouts of David Payne) admitted later, when questioned, that she cannot say that David Payne was on the tennis court between 6.00pm and 7.00pm!

Seemed of great interest to the police interviewer!

Am I reading it correctly?

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FIONA PAYNE
between six and seven as well, could you tell me where David was?”Reply
“Erm, I can up to a point, yeah. He was, as I say, he left, as I see it, around six, erm, and then I wouldn’t have seen him again until I got to the tennis courts to see him play tennis, so that would have been about half six and then he was playing tennis for that whole half an hour and, as I say, we left him playing tennis, when me and my mum went up to bath the kids and he, he didn’t sort of return until after seven, ten past seven, quarter past seven, something like that, so, yeah, that’s where he was. And then the rest is what he’s told me, erm, again, I couldn’t tell you times, but I know before he went, went to tennis, he popped in on Kate and the kids, erm, and saw them all in their pyjamas, ready for bed, having a story, before going to join for the tennis, so I can only assume that that was between, erm, you know, six and half past”.
1485
“So he didn’t tell you a period of time where he did that then?”
Reply
“Sorry?”
1485
“He didn’t tell you the period of time which he checked on?”
Reply
“Well he said it was before tennis”.
1485
“Before tennis?”
Reply
“Yeah, before going to the tennis”.
1485
“And the next question is, okay, and you have just answered it. If he is not with you during this period then where did he go and with what intention? Well it is obviously it is to play tennis, isn’t it?”
Reply
“Umm”.
1485
“Although you can’t say one hundred percent, can you, if he was on the tennis court between six and seven, can you?”
Reply
“No”.
1485
“You can say he was there between quarter to seven and seven?”
Reply
“I feel I’m answering Dave’s question for him”.
1485
“Yeah”.
Reply
“Because all I know is that he, he said to me later on that evening that he had been in on Kate and the kids. Erm, now I’m taking that as before tennis, whether it was that Gerry stayed on playing tennis and Dave came back earlier and popped in before coming up to our apartment, I, I can’t, I can’t be a hundred percent on that”.
1485
“Yeah”.
Reply
“Erm, you know, contrary to what you’re thinking, I mean, huh, you know, we don’t”.
1485
“I don’t think”.
Reply
“Well, you know. Dave’s, erm, you know, I believe that’s for Dave to say what he did really”.
1485
“Sure, yeah”.
Reply
“But I know, I know he said”.
1485
“It is your interview”.
Reply
“Yeah, I know he said he’d been in there”.
1485
“Yeah”.
Reply
“Erm, and that was before coming back to our apartment, so between, between six and seven o’clock”.
1485
“Yeah. If you don’t know you don’t know”.
Reply
“Yeah”.
1485
“That is the answer really, isn’t it?”
Reply
“Yeah”.

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by vaguely1 06.04.10 17:38

Unless FP was on the tennis court she wouldn't have been able to say he was there.

She can only surmise where he was.

It would be up to the people who were also on the tennis court to say whether he was there or not.

by justagrannynow 1 06.04.10 17:59

According to Gerry McCanns statement David Payne was with the other group members at the beach until 6.30pm when Gerry saw DP at the tennis court and asked him to check on Kate. DP returned at 7pm when Gerry left the tennis court to return to the apartment, leaving David Payne playing tennis.

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After 17h30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. Kate and the children entered by the rear door [patio window], after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.

They bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18h00 for a tennis game only for men, at which were: Dan, tennis instructor; Julian, with whom he had played tennis several times; and Curtis, with whom he had also played.

During the afternoon of that day the rest of the group members, including the children, were at the beach, [they] having returned [to the tennis courts] at 18h30, the time at which he saw David Payne next to the tennis court. David went to visit Kate and the children and returned close to 19h00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis; to which pleading he did not accede, as he had already been playing for about an hour and had to go back to to his wife. Nevertheless, Russell, David and Matthew stayed to play.

by justagrannynow 1 06.04.10 18:06

But Matthew Oldfield says this about the 3rd May

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Later, sometime between 13h30 and 14h00, he and his family went to their apartment to put their daughter down for a sleep, remaining there until about 14h15/14h30 – the time at which he decided to go to find Russell, he also having returned to his own flat, to call him for them both to go sailing.

After their sport (sometime between 15h30 and 15h45) they both went to the beach where they met up with the rest of the group, including children, staying there until about 17h00. He clarifies that Gerry, Kate and their children were not at the beach.

Leaving the beach they went to the beach restaurant where they fed the children while the adults limited themselves to a few drinks.

About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.

-------------------------------------------------------------

According to this statement, Fiona would have seen David Payne playing tennis some time before he left at 7pm.

Also, how could Gerry ask DP to check Kate if Kate was watching the tennis match?

by coppernob 06.04.10 20:55

From memory, I will search for it, didn't Fiona say in one of her statements that both her and Dave were in 5a on the 3rd?

by coppernob 06.04.10 21:38

Found it! It was this what I remembered;
Processos volume xiii, pages 3909-3915
(correspondence from DC Mike Marshall to Ricardo Pavia on 24 Oct 2007 regarding the Gasper statements)

"I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her statements, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to. "

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 4:18

coppernob wrote:Found it! It was this what I remembered;
Processos volume xiii, pages 3909-3915
(correspondence from DC Mike Marshall to Ricardo Pavia on 24 Oct 2007 regarding the Gasper statements)

"I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her statements, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to. "

Did anyone explore this further?

by worriedmum 28.06.16 12:33

''About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.''

So if Matt Oldfield remembers David, Kate and the children at the tennis, who did David Payne visit in the apartment?

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 12:40

worriedmum wrote:''About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.''

So if Matt Oldfield remembers David, Kate and the children at the tennis, who did David Payne visit in the apartment?

It is a small area, and time marches on. So if they were there when Matt Oldfield arrives KM and the kids don't need to be there 5 minutes later.

by MayMuse 28.06.16 12:46

Robittybob1 wrote:
worriedmum wrote:''About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.''

So if Matt Oldfield remembers David, Kate and the children at the tennis, who did David Payne visit in the apartment?
It is a small area, and time marches on. So if they were there when Matt Oldfield arrives KM and the kids don't need to be there 5 minutes later.

Where were they 5 minutes after ?

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 12:47

MayMuse wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
worriedmum wrote:''About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.''

So if Matt Oldfield remembers David, Kate and the children at the tennis, who did David Payne visit in the apartment?
It is a small area, and time marches on. So if they were there when Matt Oldfield arrives KM and the kids don't need to be there 5 minutes later.
Where were they 5 minutes after ?

How would I know?

by worriedmum 28.06.16 12:48

You sound like you were there,Robbitybob!

by MayMuse 28.06.16 12:51

Robittybob1 wrote:
MayMuse wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
worriedmum wrote:''About 18h00 he, Russell and David went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting Gerald was already there, with Kate and her children watching the match; the rest of the women and children joining them [Kate and children] later.

At 19h00 he, Russell and David had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.''

So if Matt Oldfield remembers David, Kate and the children at the tennis, who did David Payne visit in the apartment?
It is a small area, and time marches on. So if they were there when Matt Oldfield arrives KM and the kids don't need to be there 5 minutes later.
Where were they 5 minutes after ?
How would I know?

So how do you know they were there as Matt says and yet Dave says he visited them in the apartment?
Two places at once?
None of their statements make sense as they do not "tally" with each other's.

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 12:55

worriedmum wrote:You sound like you were there,Robbitybob!

No I haven't been there but I'd like to go there and see the situation for myself. I have looked at Google Earth and heaps of YTs etc over the last couple of weeks so I'm getting a bit of a feel for the place.

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 13:04

MayMuse wrote:

So how do you know they were there as Matt says and yet Dave says he visited them in the apartment?
Two places at once?
None of their statements make sense as they do not "tally" with each other's.

There are issues with knowing the exact time, and poor memories and deliberate lies. It is very difficult to work out so I don't think the answer will be in the statements as they have been gone over by the police etc tons of times. I'm looking outside of the files at the moment.

Like if the Smiths see someone carrying a child and they say it was 10:00pm, were their watches corrected for time zones etc? So if they say it was 10:00 it might actually be 11:00.

by MayMuse 28.06.16 13:23

Robittybob1 wrote:
MayMuse wrote:

So how do you know they were there as Matt says and yet Dave says he visited them in the apartment?
Two places at once?
None of their statements make sense as they do not "tally" with each other's.
There are issues with knowing the exact time, and poor memories and deliberate lies. It is very difficult to work out so I don't think the answer will be in the statements as they have been gone over by the police etc tons of times. I'm looking outside of the files at the moment.

Like if the Smiths see someone carrying a child and they say it was 10:00pm, were their watches corrected for time zones etc? So if they say it was 10:00 it might actually be 11:00.

Time zones are exactly the same as in the UK so no adjustments needed.

by Robittybob1 28.06.16 13:40

MayMuse wrote:

Time zones are exactly the same as in the UK so no adjustments needed.

Had they traveled anywhere else before arriving in Portugal? I'm only tossing ideas around.

by MayMuse 28.06.16 13:47

Robittybob1 wrote:
MayMuse wrote:

Time zones are exactly the same as in the UK so no adjustments needed.
Had they traveled anywhere else before arriving in Portugal? I'm only tossing ideas around.

Please read the files again, they flew from the UK.
The "smiths" from Ireland.