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Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

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Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.16 21:56

PART ONE

Should Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice? 

Did they retract their claim of having seen Robert Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment on the evening of 3 May? 

Were Tony Bennett and Richard Hall wrong about this? 
 

A response to a recent article by someone called ‘JJ’. 

THIS ARTICLE IS IN TWO PARTS

Someone known as ‘JJ’ has been blogging on and off for two years or so, on another forum and a blog, about the need to prosecute Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne for perverting the course of justice. He claims that when Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne said they talked to Robert Murat outside the McCanns apartment on the night of 3rd May 2007, they were lying, and should be prosecuted for lying. He says they falsely accused Murat who is a completely innocent man. 

He also criticises myself and Richard Hall for misrepresenting the situation – by, he says, falsely claiming that Rachel Oldfield and Fiona Payne had retracted the claim of seeing Robert Murat.    
 

I make a response here and otherwise I have commented below, in blue, in response to the article by him, and a ‘Reply’ by Rosalinda Hutton, as published recently on her blog. 

JJ also poses four questions in his article: 

1 Who authorised the Leics police to involve themselves in illegal activity in PDL on Saturday 5th May 2007?
2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th 
3 Lori Campbell deliberately lying about Murat and why Ian Woods of Sky, backed her up in the deception.
4 The blatant involvement of FP and RO in falsely accusing Murat. 

SUMMARY 

In response to JJ’s main charge, it is a fact that Jane Tanner identified Robert Murat as the abductor, and that two days later Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O’Brien all made statements to the Portuguese police saying they had seen and spoken to Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment on the night of 3rd May. After that (see my article below), four more people claimed to have seen Robert Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment that night: an unnamed barrister, and two people who contacted the McCanns’ ‘investigation hotline’. So Jane Tanner says she saw Murat abducting Madeleine, and seven others saw him talking to people outside the McCanns’ apartment a bit later. So they all say. 
 


The basis for myself and Richard Hall stating that Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O’Brien had retracted their claims of seeing Murat that night came in a Daily Mail article of 8 January 2008, which, inter alia, said this: 

“Doubt was cast on the evidence of several key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann disappearance last night. Those who said they saw suspect Robert Murat outside the family's holiday apartment on the night she vanished may have named the wrong man, it was revealed. Detectives believe the witnesses who said they saw the British expat could have confused him with a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, David Payne, who was out searching for the missing three-year-old…A series of witnesses have given statements claiming to have seen him around the Ocean Club apartment complex in the hours after Mrs McCann, 39, raised the alarm. They include three friends of the McCanns, Russell O'Brien, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield…”
 

------------------------ 

I try and answer JJ’s four questions right at the end, in PART TWO. He is of course welcome to join here and contribute his ideas and the reasons for them. 

TB                  
 


1 What are the facts about JJ’s claims that Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne talked to Murat on the night of 3 May?
 

ANSWER:  Rachael Oldfield spoke to the Portuguese Police on 4 May and they took a formal statement from her on 11 May. In neither of these statements did she say a word about having met Robert Murat. 
 

Robert Murat was arrested on14 May. The very next day, Rachael Oldfield made a new statement in which she added these facts: 

QUOTE:    “She says that the first time she saw the suspect Robert Murat was on the night of 3rd May shortly after they had discovered Madeleine was missing. She saw him for the first time at about 23.30 in the covered area between apartments 5B and D. She thought it very strange as he seemed to be there watching, trying to be the next person to talk to the couples from the group.

"That immediately, when the police arrived, he introduced himself to elements of the group, namely Russell, accompanied by the GNR, translating all the initial contacts between the group and the police.

"When asked, she says that she does not know whether he entered the McCanns apartment with the police”. 
 

COMMENT: This is a very plain account. Robert Murat was there, near the group’s apartments. He hung around and when the police got there, he began translating. As for Fiona Payne, she made a statement on 4 May. She did not mention Robert Murat. 

She did claim on 15 May, like Rachael Oldfield, that she had seen Robert Murat near the McCanns’ apartment on the night of 3 May. But there is no record of that statement in the police files. 

In her Rogatory Interview, she told police: 

QUOTE: “Erm, and I think, as I've said in my other statement, that's when I, around that time I saw Robert MURAT and that was at the front of the apartment. A I say, I'd been to-ing and fro-ing between the front and the back and I'd come out of the front, really just to see if anyone knew, had any information of what was happening, and, erm, Robert MURAT actually walked over to me and shook my hand and introduced himself, erm, and told me that he was, that he was a local, he was working with the Police and he spoke Portuguese and if I needed any help or wanted any help with translation then, erm, you know, he'll be there to help us. 

“And I withdrew from him, I didn't, I don't know why specifically I remember him, I mean, I haven't got a very good memory for faces, I think the others will say, or people, but I remember him very clearly, because he looked a bit strange and he had a squint, he had glasses, he appeared as if he was with the Police, because he was standing in front of all these uniformed Police, and maybe it was my assumption that he was with them, erm, yet he was saying he was a local, and I didn't quite, in my mind, I said, well how come you're a local living down the road and you're here in plain clothes yet you're saying you're with the Police, it didn't, it just seemed a bit odd, erm, and he seemed overly in my face, I can't think of a better way of putting it, he was very quite sort of almost forceful in his introduction and, you know, at that point I was sort of almost trying to steer people away from the apartment, any extra people that weren't really needed in there, just because of what was going on inside and Kate's state, so I didn't really want somebody who I didn't know, erm, in there, erm, and I think I said in my previous statement to the PJ, there was just something that made me uneasy'.”
 

Russell O’Brien made a statement on 4 May. In it, he made no mention of Robert Murat.
 

But like Rachael Oldfield, he made a second statement. He made his on 16 May, the day after Rachael Oldfield. Here it is in full, as it is entirely about Robert Murat:
 

QUOTE: “He comes to the process as a witness and of his own free will to make this statement. When asked he says that he does not speak Portuguese and is assisted by the interpreter Alice Avakoff.
 



"When asked whether he is capable of recognising without any doubt the suspect Robert Murat, the witness replies yes. When questioned he says that the first time he saw Robert Murat was on the night of the events currently under investigation, in other words, the night upon which Madeleine disappeared, at about 01.00 in the early morning of 4th May.



“That he saw Murat for the first time at this moment in the Rua Silva in front of the apartment where the events occurred, near to the parking area. When asked whether Murat arrived before or after the police, the witness says that he does not know, given that at the time the police arrived he was not present as he was searching for Madeleine. When he saw him for the first time the police were on the scene.


 “Robert Murat appeared in the middle of different people (friends from the group, people from the resort, tourists and locals) who were searching for Madeleine. He adds that he does not know at what time Murat appeared on the scene, nor whether he arrived alone or accompanied, in the sense that when the witness arrived at the scene, Murat was already there. When asked, he says that as far as he can remember, Robert was translating conversations between two officers and various people who were searching for Madeleine. As far as he could make out at that time, it seemed that Robert was trying to help, in the sense that these people were exasperated with some of the officers. He remembers that all the people were quite upset, whilst Robert was very calm. That morning was the first time the witness spoke to Murat, not remembering whether he had approached Murat or whether Robert had addressed him. They had various discussions including the fact that Robert was fluent in Portuguese as he had lived in the country for many years.
 



“He adds that Robert told him he had a daughter of Madeleine’s age in the UK and that Madeleine’s disappearance was a terrible thing. When asked what Murat was wearing that night, the witness says he is not certain but thinks he was wearing dark coloured trousers, he can't remember the colour, and a T-shirt, perhaps dark grey in colour and perhaps a jacket, the characteristics of which he cannot describe. He clearly remembers that Robert wore glasses. When asked he says he does not know how Robert found out about Madeleine’s disappearance nor how he arrived at the scene.
 



“When asked, he says that he had never seen Robert before. After this morning the witness saw Murat 3 more times, once on the morning of 4th May in the same street, Rua Silva at about 12.00 in the company of police officers. About two days later he saw Murat at the OC reception at about 12.00/14.00. Robert was alone and walking towards the previously mentioned road. The witness says that he (ROB) was accompanied by Rachel. The last time he saw Robert was last Sunday, near to his house at about 20.30. At that moment the witness was with Jane.
 



“He never noticed anything suspicious about Murat except for the last time he saw him when Robert was being transported in a vehicle, a green van with four windows, he does not remember the make, model or number plate and that he stopped, got out of the van, opened the back and showed photos of Madeleine - and that he showed himself to be a very important person in the investigation, saying that he was providing immense help to the police in discovering the truth. When asked, he says that according to his wife Jane, she did not see Murat on the night of the events as she had spent most of the time looking after her children”.
 

COMMENT: This again purports to be a very clear account of meeting with Robert Murat, close to the McCanns’ apartment. It harmonises perfectly with Rachael Oldfield’s account of her meeting with Murat. Robert Murat however has always maintained that he was at home on the evening of 3 May and did not go anywhere.   
 

2 What happened at the ‘confrontation’ between Robert Murat, and the Tapas 3 (RO, FP and RO’B) on 11 July 2007? 

All four were put together in a small room. By one account, they were so close that their knees were touching. Robert Murat continued to deny that he was anywhere near the McCanns’ apartment or the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May. The Tapas 3 continued to insist that he was. The outcome was inconclusive, as Goncalo Amaral writes in his book ‘The Truth about A Lie’: 

[Anna Esse Translation]     “On July 11th at 10am, a confrontation is organised between the witnesses - Rachael Mampilly, Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien - and Robert Murat. Nothing new comes out of it. The former persist in stating that the suspect was definitely in the area on the night of the disappearance. Murat denies the whole thing and even accuses them of lying. Each side stands its ground”. 

 

3 What happened after that? 


Here I will try to make my article short by just giving a short history of developments after 11 July. I have most of the references if anyone is curious.
Just to recap as to where we are so far:
 

On 14 May, Jane Tanner said that Robert Murat was the abductor.
 

On 15 & 16 May, the Tapas 3 (RO, FP and RO’B) say they spoke to Robert Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment on the night of 3 May. They maintained this at a confrontation on 11 July while Murat flatly contradicted them.   
 

13 Nov 2007   Crucial meeting at the home of Ralph and Sally Eveleigh, Murat’s uncle and aunt. Murat was there with his lawyer Francisco Pagarete. For the McCanns, Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst, the McCanns’ co-ordinating lawyer, were there. Many observers think this was a crucial, top-level ‘crunch’ meeting where a ‘deal’ was done between what we might term ‘The McCann Camp’ and ‘The Murat Camp’. What followed was the McCann Team edging gradually away from identifying Murat as the suspect.     

 

16 Nov 2007   Daily Mail article, Jane Tanner says she didn’t name Murat:  “The woman [Jane Tanner] who believes she saw Madeleine McCann being abducted revealed yesterday that she has never named Robert Murat to police as the man she saw. Instead, she thinks he was ‘Mediterranean- looking’. She admitted: ‘I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not. I would say the man I saw was more local or Mediterranean looking, rather than British. He had dark, almost black, long hair and had swarthy skin. He was dressed in that sort of smart casual way European people dress”. 


17 Nov 2007   Tapas 9 and their lawyers and advisers get together at Rothley Manor Hotel 
 

31 Dec 2007   Daily Mail article (extracts): Holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, 54, also recognised the 34-year-old [Murat] as a man she saw smoking a cigarette on the street corner opposite the McCanns' apartment. An unnamed British barrister who was on holiday in Praia da Luz at the time is understood to have corroborated what Mrs Jensen said, but not made a formal statement. Two other tourists also called the hotline operated by the McCanns' private detective agency, Metodo 3, to report similar sightings…” 


1 Jan 2008    Reference is made in a Daily Mail article to a total of seven people who say that they saw Murat near the McCanns’ apartment on the night of 3 May:   “Kate McCann is suspicious about Robert Murat's alibi for the night her daughter Madeleine vanished, it was revealed yesterday. The mother of three has confided to friends that she believes there are questions about the British expat that need to be answered. Mrs McCann's doubts emerged after the Daily Mail reported that seven witnesses claim to have seen Mr Murat near the McCanns' holiday apartment on the night of May 3rd”. The ‘seven’ must mean the Tapas 3, Jayne Jensen, the unnamed barrister and two other unnamed people who allegedly ’phoned the McCanns’ ‘investigation hotline’. 

The Daily Mail continued: “But a source close to Mrs McCann said: ‘We now have a number of people who have come forward quite independently of us and volunteered information directly in contradiction to what he has said’. Three friends of the McCanns, Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, told police in July [NOTE: That should of course be May] that they saw Mr Murat near the Ocean Club holiday complex while they were searching for Madeleine. They are said to have given statements to Portuguese police saying he introduced himself to them [that night] and said: ‘I am Robert. Can I help in the search?’”
 

8 Jan 2008   This Daily Mail article is so crucial to an understanding of this issue that I will reproduce it in full: 

QUOTE 


Madeleine witnesses ‘may have mistaken this friend of the McCanns for Murat’ on night she disappeared Daily Mail 

“Doubt was cast on the evidence of several key witnesses in the Madeleine McCann disappearance last night. Those who said they saw suspect Robert Murat outside the family's holiday apartment on the night she vanished may have named the wrong man, it was revealed. 

“Detectives believe the witnesses who said they saw the British expat could have confused him with a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, David Payne, who was out searching for the missing three-year-old… 

“A series of witnesses have given statements claiming to have seen him around the Ocean Club apartment complex in the hours after Mrs McCann, 39, raised the alarm. They include three friends of the McCanns, Russell O'Brien, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield, who later confronted Mr Murat at a police station after he was made a suspect and said he offered to help them search that night. 

“Mark Warner nanny Charlotte Pennington said she saw him hanging around outside the Ocean Club's reception at about 10pm. British holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, an unnamed British barrister and two unidentified British tourists all claim to have seen him around the complex that night. 

“But none of them knew the 34-year-old property consultant before that night. Police are examining the theory that they could have confused him with Dr David Payne. The medical researcher, who is 41, was searching around the complex that night and - in a street lit by orange streetlights - could easily have been mistaken for Mr Murat. Mr Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete told the Daily Mail: ‘Robert has always said the witnesses were mistaken. He was not there that night’. 
“A source close to the inquiry said: ‘The similarity between the two has rendered many witness accounts virtually worthless’. But he added: ‘What is baffling is that Mr Payne's wife and two of his friends are among those who claim to have seen Mr Murat outside the McCanns' apartment that night. You'd think a wife would recognise her own husband’.” 
UNQUOTE 


21 Jan 2008   The McCanns say Murat was not the abductor: Daily Mail article:


“Kate and Gerry McCann are certain that original suspect Robert Murat is not the man who snatched their daughter Madeleine. But private detectives searching for the missing four-year-old still believe he may have acted as a ‘spotter’ for a kidnap gang targeting the McCann family. The couple have now revealed how they never thought the expatriate was responsible. Despite doubts over his alibi, they have ruled out the 34-year-old after a major probe in Praia da Luz. A 10-strong squad of investigators mounted an undercover operation finding ‘strong’ proof he was in the vicinity after Madeleine’s disappearance. Several witnesses gave statements to Spanish detectives from the Metodo 3 agency, claiming they had chatted with Murat after the alarm was raised by Kate at 10pm. The couple's lawyers sent petitions to senior Portuguese police to re-interview him.

“One theory is that Murat - going through an expensive divorce - may have been paid by a paedophile gang to select a child. A friend of the McCanns said last night: ‘Privately Kate and Gerry have always believed that Murat was not the man who took Madeleine. However, they do not think he should be cleared, because there is enough evidence to suggest he could have been a spotter for a gang. Murat has told the police that he was not at the apartment on the night she went missing but lots of people saw him and he went round introducing himself saying, ‘Hi, I'm Robert’. He still has a lot of questions to answer”. 
 


END OF PART ONE

____________________

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" - Paul's first letter to his disciple Timothy,  1 Timothy 1 v 15

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.16 22:23

PART TWO

As posted on 'Cristobell Unbound', with responses interleaved: 

===========================================

GUEST BLOG - TAPAS AND MURAT

With many thanks to JJ, who always manages to sort the wheat from the chaff!

Which Politicians are blocking the truth? By JJ

Fiona Payne and Rachel Oldfield both gave written Police statements and confronted Robert Murat directly in a Police interview that they saw Murat outside 5a that night.

The PJ investigated this extensively and found no evidence to support him being outside 5a that night.

RD Hall states in his films that they had both retracted this testimony by the end of December 2007.  Tony Bennett emphasises this retraction by the end of 2007 ad nauseam.

How do they then explain the rogatory statements of FP and RO in April 2008 (note the date).  Both stating:
“RM came up to me shook me by the hand and said I am Robert Murat.  I noticed he had a squint and he gave us his phone number.  I am 100% sure it was Robert Murat”.
No ambiguity.
No genuine mistake
No chance of mistaken identity
No error.

But a deliberate and malicious attempt of the crime in Portugal, of calumny and in the UK, of attempting to pervert the course of justice.

Serious criminal offences punishable by jail terms in both countries.

Payne and Oldfield deliberately and maliciously implicated a man in a serious crime.  Why did they do it?  “He came up to me, shook me by the hand and introduced himself as Robert Murat. He had a squint, he gave us his phone number.

Could they be any clearer?

There is always a concerted effort to divert attention from these actions.

If RD Hall/Bennett or anybody else can produce evidence, FP and RO have retracted their identity of Murat, will they produce it or apologise for misleading people.

REPLY: The evidence of retraction comes in the Daily Mail report of 8 January 2008. I believe there may have been other similar stories in other newspapers. I agree that there was no formal retraction; however, the clear impression given her is that all seven witnesses (including RO, FP and RO’B) had been mistaken about identifying Robert Murat. I accept that both Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne stated in their Rogatory Interviews what they had said initially on 15 & 16 May, i.e. that they had spoken to Robert Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment on the night of Madeleine’s reported disappearance. On balance (see end of this article) I think JJ is probably right that on this particular point, Murat was truthful and the Tapas 3 were not.           

Bringing the topic up with TB leads to a ban and RDH ignores all contact.

REPLY: I’m not aware that JJ has brought up the subject with me or on CMOMM and certainly no-one has been banned here for discussing it.

Ask yourself, why would “honest researchers” adopt this attitude.  Is there an agenda, or are they just plain stupid.
CMOMM, Bennett and Hall have spent hundreds of hours delving into all aspects of the Smith family but key players like FP and RO are not only ignored but shielded by stating they retracted their statements by the end of December 2007 and banning any discussion of their involvement.

REPLY: A touch over the top, JJ. I agree they did not make a formal retraction but a source, on their behalf, clearly described them in the Daily Mail of 8 January as ‘mistaken’.

It is most unlikely Payne and Oldfield thought this strategy out for themselves which leads to the question who did, when and why?  Have the Police in the UK asked them, if not why not?

Their actions do not directly concern the McCanns and surely they too must wonder at their friends’ actions, and if not why not?

Who assured Payne and Oldfield they would not be investigated for a serious crime?

Is it a conspiracy, this is for the Police to investigate but they have had since 2008, surely an interview under caution would be worthwhile.

The McCanns may or may not be able to shed light on Madeleine’s fate but Payne and Oldfield certainly can.  Why does nobody care/dare to ask them?

Four elements of this case are rarely if ever discussed.
1 Who authorised the Leics police to involve themselves in illegal activity in PDL on Saturday 5th May 2007?
2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th 
3 Lori Campbell deliberately lying about Murat and why Ian Woods of Sky, backed her up in the deception.
4 The blatant involvement of FP and RO in falsely accusing Murat.

There maybe in this case some honest diligent UK Policemen but can anybody find an honest UK Politician of any party?

The farce will go on.   


-----------------------------------------  


MY REPLY by Roslinda Hutton

To be honest I am not sure what the situation is with the Tapas members who lied when saying Robert Murat was outside 5A on the night.  I thought they were called into the police station and had to reiterate their allegations in front of RM - face to face that is, but I'm afraid I can't remember what the outcome was.

REPLY: That’s correct. Each side accused the other of being mistaken/lying.

I do remember that Robert Murat brought, or was going to bring, a criminal prosecution against Jane Tanner for her allegations, in any event Jane Tanner has lied about exactly what went on in the police surveillance van, ever since.  In Goncalo's book, she told the British detective (Small, I believe) that RM was the man she saw carrying a child. This evidence doesn't appear in the police files and she has since denied it, but RM was picked up the next day and named the first Arguido.   Other members of the Tapas group then came forward claiming that after seeing RM on the TV, they too remembered he was outside 5A on the night.  To be honest, I always thought the allegations against RM were stupid - if RM had 'just' kidnapped a child why would he hanging around outside the apartment - surely he would have been otherwise occupied?

REPLY: The above paragraph is broadly correct.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the 'researchers'.  For whatever reason, these completely incompetent idiots (psychos) have completely ignored the lives and times of the most obvious suspects outside the McCanns, that is, the ones who had the means and opportunity (if not the motive) to assist in making a child disappear, the ones disappearing from the dinner table for long intervals with valid 'child was sick' etc excuses for their absence.  
CMoMM and indeed Richard Hall seem to be oblivious to the most clear and obvious 'suspects' - the party of 9 who are up to the necks in it.  The entire last supper is like a badly written Whitehall farce that gives all the players a speaking part, but not necessarily in the right order, or the right place. It is botched together.  Lines were chucked in in the hope and prayer that the audience would buy them - there wasn't any time for re-writes.

Whilst Bennett and Hall are salivating at the thought of nailing Robert Murat and every outsider who had feck all to do with Madeleine's disappearance, they are ignoring the sideshow that was created to give the abduction story its wings.  Doh!  It still doesn't appear to have registered with them that the police, both in Portugual and the UK are stuck on the collective alibi of the entire Tapas group.  Those few scribbled lines on the back of Madeleine's colouring book have held out for almost 10 years, and notably, they still haven't done a reconstruction.  Whilst Jane Tanner was pointing the police and the public in the direction of a stranger abductor, it distracted from the fact that her own partner Russell, was missing from the table during the crucial period, and she too, was flitting back and forth.  She was saying don't look at us, look at someone else, and the police, public and members of CMoMM and Richard Hall have obliged ever since. 

In the whole scheme of things, the Tapas group have got off relatively unscathed, despite the fact that it is their collective story that has enabled this debacle to continue for so long.  That they obviously conspired to accuse an innocent man takes evil to a whole new level, are they completely without conscience?  How do you gauge the seriousness of perverting the course of justice for a decade?  How much police time has been wasted? How much public money has spent?  What of the knock on effects, the genuine charities deprived of much needed funds, all the real, live, children deprived of much needed resources?  What of the lives destroyed, those men blasted onto the front pages of the tabloid, accused (with no evidence) of being Maddie's abductor, rapist, killer?  What of the former Portuguese detective, forced out of his job and vilified by a sneering, baying, nationalist, British media? 

Many thanks for bringing this subject up JJ, like yourself, I agree the Tapas group deserve, at the very least, an honourable mention. 

REPLY:  Members here will be able to see for themselves numerous fallacies in the above  paragraphs. I doubt whether Robert Murat can be regarded as ‘innocent’ in this matter given the several untruths he told in his initial interview, and his misconduct as a police interpreter.  



==================================================================



TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

1 Who authorised the Leics police to involve themselves in illegal activity in PDL on Saturday 5th May 2007?

REPLY:  There is clear evidence that the government at the very highest level authorised, indeed ordered, a whole series of immediate interventions, including despatching a team (probably three) of police officers from Leicestershire Police, who appear to have included Det Chef Supt Bob Small and Det Supt Stuart (Call me ‘Stu’) Prior. Whether the Portuguese police were consulted or notified about this in advance I don’t know.   

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.

REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well. But I can for the benefit of JJ and everyone here add these two extracts from the Rogatory Interviews:

RUSSELL O’BRIEN:   "Erm, we became more structured, in that, we didn't do anything, in terms of, you know, life then just became, you know, one wander to child care and back and interviews and alike from there. I think the media side of things, which we, erm, I think a lot of people informed the media straight, erm, sort of fairly quickly, because we know James LANDALE who does BBC News Twenty-Four, erm, sort of personally, and his wife, and we did ring them. I mean, you know, I think we were asked not, you know, people suggesting that it wouldn't be a good idea to the Press, but, and they may be right, but, as a group, we thought that you need some exposure on this because if you need to get it out there. And that was sort of as much a criticism, erm, it wasn't sort of a criticism of the Portuguese Police, it was just that it felt like the right thing to do and it just seemed like a good idea at the time, you know, to sort of try and get some exposure. And I think we rang up James or his wife, Kath LANDALE, and asked, you know, how we, how you could do that and they gave us a number. And then I think, we hadn't, erm, I think then there was phone contact between Rachael and the desk, saying, you know, do you want to go forward with this, because we, we mentioned it but didn't sort of authorise anybody to sort of to go, because we hadn't spoken to the Police yet, we didn't know what they wanted to do, erm, and how they'd feel about it, so we held it back, but I think there were people within the group and it sort of got out pretty quickly".

RACHAEL OLDFIELD:   it might have been a Journalist, because on the night that Madeleine disappeared, on the Thursday, a friend of mine, or friends of Matt’s and mine, Kath and James Landale and James Landale’s a BBC News erm and at the time he was like Political Correspondent, erm I saw him the other night actually reading the news on BBC News 24 but I rang him, or I rang his wife Kath cos I had her mobile number, erm basically to say you know that Madeleine had gone missing, was there any way that we could get it on the news and that was, that was on the Thursday night, so I suppose and it was the loc, it was the, was it the Local Elections or something happening that day”?
1578 “I don’t know”.
Reply “There were some sort of Elections, must have been Local Elections and James was out, away reporting on that but anyway Kath put me in touch with him and I spoke to him and I spoke to a couple of people on the BBC News 24 desk, so I mean you know, it must”.
1578 “That was on the Thursday evening”?
Reply “That was on the Thursday night”.
1578 “What time would that have been”?
Reply “Well that was sort of you know, midnight after midnight (inaudible)”.

3 Lori Campbell deliberately lying about Murat and why Ian Woods of Sky backed her up in the deception.

REPLY: I confess I’ve never researched this but that’s another matter I should also like to know more about.  

4 The blatant involvement of FP and RO in falsely accusing Murat.

REPLY: There is a major and sustained conflict of evidence here between the Tapas 3 (RO, FP and RO’B) and Murat.  
If the Tapas 3 are lying, and Murat really did talk to people outside the McCanns’ apartment after 10pm on 3 May, then not only would Murat by lying about that but he would also be lying by claiming, as he did, that he was at home all that evening and moreover that he did not hear about Madeleine's abduction until the morning of Friday 4 May. Since we know that Murat told many untruths when first questioned by the police on 14 May, he could have lied about this as well.
However, on this occasion, after much thought, I stick by what I have always said, namely that, for whatever reason, Jane Tanner, the Tapas 3 (RO, FP and RO’B), egged on by sinister state security and police officers, such as Det Chief Supt Bob Small, did deliberately lie about this, probably in order to frame Murat and point the finger of suspicion at him. 

                 



ENDS 

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 17.11.16 0:29

That's a lot to absorb but I'm pleased you've raised the issue again.   I'm rather hoping this anonymity JJ will register as a member of the forum to iron out some of the ambiguity, or if already a member under a different user name might identify his/herself in order to clarify a number of points.  At present I'm not too sure what JJ is trying to convey apart from an unnecessary attack against this forum and it's members. 

I don't have a problem with anonymity as I fully understand why people wish to conceal private information, even though I realise some express extreme opposition to anonymity, at least when the occasion suits - otherwise it seems perfectly acceptable when opinions are in accord.

Will read again at a more convenient moment.  The group certainly seemed to be at variance about the Robert Murat connection.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by skyrocket on 17.11.16 9:51

@TB - I believe Russell wants to retract his siting of Murat on the night of the 3/4 May. He doesn't seem to mind admitting that he could have made a mistake but would appear to be reluctant (under duress?) to actually change his statement.

This is what Russell has to say in his Rogatory - note how the police stop him in his tracks at one point.

This first section is from the typed up notes taken on the day the video copy failed:

'Comments- I am troubled by MURAT’S denial of being there on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance and assisting in the translations.  This has troubled me he would have an alibi had he have been honest about being there.  The statement given in Portugal are true and accurate, other people put MURAT there on the night one of those being Sylvia head of house keeping.  I would like to point out that I do not wish to change the statement given to the PJ but have reservations that the time may have been inaccurate and it may have been the following morning when I saw him.

Our statements have been previously given in good faith I am positive that he was there on the night.  What I said in my statement was right'.
This next section comes further down in his statement - this is when he is going over the typed up statement above, during his next interview:

'Erm, and then up until ‘comments’, everything else I think is, erm, is fine.  Erm, it’s rather brief in terms of what I’ve written about, erm, Robert MURAT and then there’s a whole, my whole third statement is, is solely about our meetings, erm, so there, there is a vast amount of information that, that isn’t there, but obviously in my third statement is, is a sort of testimony for that.  I think what I’ve written here really is that, erm, we gave that statement, erm, within a few days of him being made aguido, certainly before, erm, any details of, of his movements, according to his statement, had been, had been leaked or had come out into the open.  Erm, we certainly, the three, you know, the three of us, all immediately thought, when we saw him on the television, that we recognised him and that he was there on the night and the statements that were given were given relatively soon after the event and at the time I had absolutely no doubt that that was, that those were accurate.  The reason I brought this back up here is because I cannot see what he stood to gain by not, by not being, well by saying he wasn’t there on the night when there was the potential for so many people to have seen him.  Erm, and it’s been a bit difficult, kind of, erm, you know, he was trying to knock a square peg into a round hole here, because I certainly had a great deal of faith in what I said at the time, you know, there was no, I didn’t have any doubts, was it the evening, sorry, was it the night, was it the next morning, but with him denying it, with no further evidence coming out, with no questions in here whatsoever that kind of led, that would, that sort of said, you know, ‘What about Robert MURAT’, I can only speculate that there’s, that there is no further evidence, erm, that kind will push, will push the case further on him.  Erm, and then I also got the information from the likes of Charlotte PENNINGTON and, and, erm, at least earlier on, Sylvia, erm, well sort of the Housekeeper, and Press reports saying that other people also placed him there on the night, that kind of made me think, well this is, that I, you know, that I am correct”.
1578    “So is there anything that you would like to add to that paragraph'”
 Reply    “Well only that it’s, it’s out, out of the context of what I’ve just been saying again there”.


1578    “Is there anything you would like to add to improve'”

 Reply    “I think at the end ‘that he would have an alibi’, erm, ‘Although’, ‘Although convinced of the accuracy of our statements at the time of’, erm, ‘of giving’”.


1578    “Okay.  ‘Although convinced’'”

 Reply    “’Convinced of the accuracy of our statements at the time of giving’”.


1578    “Yeah'”

 Reply    “’And further backed up by the testimony of Fiona, Rachael’ and potentially a number of other people if you believe the Press”.


1578    “’And further backed up’'”

 Reply    “’By the testimony of Rachael, Fiona and other people’.  It not going to make sense this, after this, is it, it’s one of these long O’BRIEN sentences that don’t really end, erm”.


1578    “’Backed up by the testimony of Rachael, Fiona and others’ did you say'”

 Reply    “Yeah”.


1578    “Yeah'”

 Reply    “’I cannot understand why Robert MURAT would deny being there and I do not wish to change my statement but have’”.


1578    “Which statement'”

 Reply    “Well ‘I do not wish to change’, you know, the”.


1578    “’My original statement’'”

 Reply    “’The original kind of statement’”.


1578    “Yes'”

 Reply    “’But have’, you know, ‘the niggle that unintentionally we have’, ‘that we have got a time wrong and that it was in the morning’”.


1578    “’A niggle that unintentionally’'”

 Reply    “You know, ‘I may’, ‘I may have the time wrong’.  Erm, let you write that”.


1578    “Yes'”

 Reply    “Erm, can I just see how that.  Erm, ‘However Rachael and Fiona report they only saw him once and it was on the night’”.


1578    “Sorry, ‘However’'”

 Reply    “’However Rachael and Fiona said they’, you know, ‘they firmly place him there on the night’”.

 4064    “(DC HOLLIDAY enters the interview room).  Can I borrow you a minute'”


1578    “Yes”.

 DC GIERC leaves the interview room.
 DC GIERC re-enters the interview room.


1578    “Okay”.

 Reply    “Should have just started from the start of the morning, ha ha”.


1578    “I have just had some clarification that in respect of Robert MURAT”.

 Reply    “Uh hu”.


1578    “You will be given the opportunity in a short time to expand on”.

 Reply    “To go over on film like we did the other day'”


1578    “Yes”.

 Reply    “Okay”.


1578    “The idea of clarification of this statement, the content of this statement are the notes made by monitoring Officers”.

 Reply    “Uh hu”.


1578    “And really”.

 Reply    “So we just want to get through this'”


1578    “Yes”.

 Reply    “Alright, fair enough.  Erm, all what I’ve added there was, was fine.  And I think I was just carrying on.  ‘Our statements were previously given in good faith and positive our statement was right at the time’, erm, I think just delete ‘at at the time’ because it implies that it’s not right now”.


1578    “I’m sorry'”

 Reply    “It just says here ‘What I said in my statement was right at the time’, I think those statements were correct, it’s just with the passage of time and all the other news has made me doubt, has made me doubt whether I’ve got what I saw on the morning and the evening mixed, but I’ll come back to, I can come back to that.

Then (Russell even stresses how helpful Murat was being):

'....swept back up from the beach, err back to the, back to the apartment then spent a fair amount of time on there both just talking to people err we got photographs there, there was some attempts to, to get, you know contact with consulate and so on and so forth.

Err at this point, as I said before, I think this was my first meeting with Robert MURAT when he was, in my eyes, being very helpful you know liaising with the Police, translating with the Police, offering, offering consolation along with other people, he wasn’t the only person, you know being a supportive member of the public'.

And then:

'Erm, you know, I certainly saw Robert MURAT again on the morning and that’s the occasion, erm, on which I took his, his mobile number, erm, and I thought, you know, certainly with some of the translational difficulties with, you know, with the staff, that he appeared to be a very, a very kind of useful person to sort of be able to contact should we need him, as I say, I remember taking his details just on the corner of the apartment, we were outside, not, not on the road outside five ‘A’ but just at the junction of the two roads, he was walking off and going around there and I remember kind of catching him and saying, you know, ‘What’s your name’ and just putting Robert and his number into the phone'.

And finally:

'Personally I don’t feel as anti the re-enactment of some of, as some of the rest of the group and that is despite having perhaps some of the most, you know, some of the worst Press out of the, out of the lot of us, you know, I’ve, you know, I’m the male who was away from the room for the longest, you know, I didn’t ask for bed sheets and a whole range of other sort of associations with Exeter and Robert MURAT, you know, there’s, you know, I’ve got a lot more in many respects to, to be worried about travelling to Portugal'.

So Russell saw Murat on the night of the 3/4 May, then he doesn't think he did; he says his first statement about seeing Murat on the night of the 3/4 May is accurate and he doesn't want to change it, but actually he (and the others) may have got the time wrong and that it was actually the next morning when they first saw him - you can't have it both ways Russell, it's one or the other.


One random other point. Apart from Dianne, who seems to have been more on the periphery (although I believe has a good idea of what actually happened that week), there are 6 tapas members. We have David who gave a report of seeing Madeleine at around 6.30pm on 3 May; Matthew who went to the flat at 9.30pm on the 3 May to check on the children (did he back out of actually admitting to be the last person to see Madeleine, necessitating David's statement?); Jane seeing 'the abductor'; then Rachael, Fiona and Russell all pointing the finger at Murat. Each then had an input; each drawn in, or directly involved in the weeks events; each having to keep to the 'official line'. All the world's a stage ............
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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by MayMuse on 17.11.16 11:14

@skyrocket 
Thank you for this account, always find your input/research thorough and helps to put things in perspective. 
I don't believe that all the tapas knew what actually was/did happen or that they checked on the children throughout that holiday. A lie needs a lie to cover the lie and a lie to make the lie some more. So,when did the first lie start and by whom? We may never know, and think if this can be pinpointed somewhat then perhaps it will become clearer. 
That night we have the penned timeline on the back of a child's colouring book (possibly Madeleine's) twice over... I do return to that often, what proof do we have it was written that night in the space of events, when did they they have time to write it? There are a few anomalies even in that I.e change of time even if by 5 minutes, Gerry knowing about it and then him not being told until later of JT seeing a man carrying a child? Etc. 
Are the names written the key "players" ? 
Im also drawn back to those omitted...were they not included as to use later if needed I.e Paynes visit earlier that day? 

Far too many erm's and alterations and poor memory for such a catastrophic event!

And to mention the quote at the bottom by Murat... What "f up" was he referring? How did he know there was one?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Roxyroo on 17.11.16 11:38

I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar

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Did Robert Murat meet part of the Tapas Group 3 May 2007

Post by willowthewisp on 17.11.16 11:48

Hi Mr Bennett,on a serious point,we are talking about the disappearance of a little Girl,Madeleine,who was friends with the Tapas group of families children.
they all refused to go back to Portugal,to assist the PJ Police in that investigation,as in their own words,"They did not see the point of a re-enactment of the Tapas Group on 3 May 2007"as they had given"sworn Testimonies"of their whereabouts on that evening?
This"Special Group of friends"donated the defamation money to the"Find Madeleine Fund",then chose to take part in Dave Edgars masterpiece,with Assistant director Gerald,meeting Jeremy Wilkens outside of Apartment 5A?
Couple these facts along with 24 hrs producer James Landale,relationship to Rachel Oldfield,then throw in the"Leicestershire Specials"along with broken down recordings of Sworn Testimonies in April 2008 onward's,you have a very "Special cauldron"bubbling,brewing,better to remove it so it doesn't spoil?
Then we have possible mistaken identity of David for Robert on 3 May 2007?
Couple this with what Maymuse,wrote,about the"Biggest F**k Up,did he know he was going to be thrown to the prowling Lions?
The Tapas Group will have to live with what they may or may not have become embroiled in from 3 May 2007,but are you still,"Proud of your actions"of what you refused to take part in?
What next an appearance on,"I'm a celebrity get me out of Here"with the Tapas group with Ant and Dec,and Sir Bernard Hogan Howe as additional MC?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by MayMuse on 17.11.16 11:59

@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar
Or was he supposed to tamper with the shutters but forgot or backed out or was it just another huge fabrication of "checking to see if there was any crying?"
 IMO

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Did Robert Murat meet part of the Tapas Group 3 May 2007

Post by willowthewisp on 17.11.16 12:04

@MayMuse wrote:
@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar
Or was he supposed to tamper with the shutters but forgot or backed out or was it just another huge fabrication of "checking to see if there was any crying?"
 IMO
The "Bungling burglar"forgot his"Crow Bar"that evening All?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.11.16 14:08

@skyrocket wrote:So Russell saw Murat on the night of the 3/4 May, then he doesn't think he did; he says his first statement about seeing Murat on the night of the 3/4 May is accurate and he doesn't want to change it, but actually he (and the others) may have got the time wrong and that it was actually the next morning when they first saw him - you can't have it both ways Russell, it's one or the other.

One random other point. Apart from Dianne, who seems to have been more on the periphery (although I believe has a good idea of what actually happened that week), there are 6 tapas members. We have David who gave a report of seeing Madeleine at around 6.30pm on 3 May; Matthew who went to the flat at 9.30pm on the 3 May to check on the children (did he back out of actually admitting to be the last person to see Madeleine, necessitating David's statement?); Jane seeing 'the abductor'; then Rachael, Fiona and Russell all pointing the finger at Murat. Each then had an input; each drawn in, or directly involved in the weeks events; each having to keep to the 'official line'. All the world's a stage ...
@ skyrocket    Most helpful, I join with others in thanking you very much for adding this. I hadn't really completed the research re Russell O'Brien but was tired of looking here and there for bits of statements and press reports, pasting them in and commenting on them, etc., so clicked 'Send' last night before properly finishing off my article.

You have supplied, as it were, the 'missing link' and I agree with your analysis above.

It's even clearer to me now that the claims of the Tapas 3 about Murat being there outside G5A that night were an elaborate and bare-faced fabrication, which Rachael and Fiona repeated in their Rogatories. It looks like Russell was troubled about his lie, and what a complete and utter mess he made of things with his never-ending indecision! What a useless witness he would have made!    

So JJ, whoever s/he is, has called that one right, even though, as @ Verdi wrote, his personal attacks and the attacks against CMOMM were way over the top

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by April28th on 17.11.16 15:23

It is probably not unsignificant that Jayne Jensen, one of those who claimed to have seen Robert Murat, is the other tourist connected to the 'Swansea wrong number', the one call which Kate didn't 'accidentally' wipe from her phone.

Except, where Kate had received a short call from that number, Jayne Jensen actually CALLED the number at 14:01 on the 2nd, just over a couple of hours after Kate's call was received (11:21), and she was talking to them for 52 seconds, so hardly a wrong number on her part (and I would seriously question the odds of her accidentally calling the same number, nevermind accidentally talking for 52 seconds).

She's also in touch with solicitors in England around midday on the 4th, though I would imagine she probably wasn't the only one.



I think the Swansea link means her involvement - knowingly or by proxy - should be examined.

Possibly also the physical similarities between Robert Murat and estate agent (and family member of OC co-owners) Angus Symington, could be relevant. There are 3 calls from the OC to Oceancountry Real Estate on the morning of the 3rd. A bit of misdirection?
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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 17.11.16 15:49

You have to wonder if this was all a result of the Tapas group being asked to return to Portugal to participate in a re-enactment of events.  Clearly this request gave the Tapas group the wobbles, thinking they were being stitched up by the PJ and would be all but arrested as soon as they touched down in Portugal.  Personally, I don't think the PJ had any such devious plan afoot but a guilty sub-conscious can be very revealing.

The rumours spread abroad at the begining focused on Jane Tanner wanting to change her statement about her sighting but as time evolved O'Brien, Oldfield and Mampilly were drawn into the mix - oddly enough not David or Fiona Payne, at least not directly !?!

The proposal for the re-enactment presented by the PJ, was initiated around the middle of September 2007, after the McCanns had been made arguidos.  Following this there was a flurry of press reports (I think one of the first was the Mail in September 2007) but certainly reporting gathered momentum by November 2007 - then came the Rothley Hotel conclave which appeared to change the course of history so to speak.

It's no surprise to me that rumours were adrift relating specifically to O'Brien, Tanner, Oldfield and Mampilly wishing to change their statements.  Like all things connected to this case, there always appears to be an element of truth within.    Besides, the claim was vehemently dismissed by the McCanns official media monitoring agent - Clarence Mitchell.  Reason enough to think there might have been some element of truth in the rumours.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Equity on 17.11.16 17:57

@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar

I've always thought this a possibility and considered he may have been 'set up' to make a discovery but instead of entering the apartment he just listened as he walked passed (just out of laziness rather than anything nefarious) when he returned to the table he brazenly said, when asked... been in - checked on the kids - they're all fine.

Maybe certain people at the table were left more than a little perplexed by this?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by MayMuse on 17.11.16 18:25

@Equity wrote:
@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar

I've always thought this a possibility and considered he may have been 'set up' to make a discovery but instead of entering the apartment he just listened as he walked passed (just out of laziness rather than anything nefarious) when he returned to the table he brazenly said, when asked... been in - checked on the kids - they're all fine.

Maybe certain people at the table were left more than a little perplexed by this?
Why would M.O. check just that night?  And not any other? and supposedly only on "Madeleine" (their words) when the twins were in that apartment too. 

I do not believe that he checked that evening whatsoever, another fabrication in my opinion.

Remember in the first statements there was no mention of M.O checking, this came later after they all had time to think.
The first information to come out in the news was by Jill Renwick, a friend of Kate's I believe; she said that Kate and Gerry were checking and could visually see the room, that they left the apartment at 8pm, Gerry checked at 9pm then Kate checked at 10pm to find Madeleine  missing. For JR to say that then the person who called her gave her that information and the checks were hourly by all accounts, it then changed to half hour by inserting M.O, again in my opinion.

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Post by Equity on 17.11.16 18:34

Only meant I had considered it as a possibility :-)

I actually think all the kids were in one apartment with at least one adult every night.

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Post by MayMuse on 17.11.16 18:37

@Equity wrote:Only meant I had considered it as a possibility :-)

I actually think all the kids were in one apartment with at least one adult every night.
Many people believe the same as there was apparently one adult missing from dinner each night. 
They tied themselves up in knots IMO spin

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Roxyroo on 17.11.16 18:52

@MayMuse wrote:
@Equity wrote:
@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.

liar

I've always thought this a possibility and considered he may have been 'set up' to make a discovery but instead of entering the apartment he just listened as he walked passed (just out of laziness rather than anything nefarious) when he returned to the table he brazenly said, when asked... been in - checked on the kids - they're all fine.

Maybe certain people at the table were left more than a little perplexed by this?
Why would M.O. check just that night?  And not any other? and supposedly only on "Madeleine" (their words) when the twins were in that apartment too. 

I do not believe that he checked that evening whatsoever, another fabrication in my opinion.

Remember in the first statements there was no mention of M.O checking, this came later after they all had time to think.
The first information to come out in the news was by Jill Renwick, a friend of Kate's I believe; she said that Kate and Gerry were checking and could visually see the room, that they left the apartment at 8pm, Gerry checked at 9pm then Kate checked at 10pm to find Madeleine  missing. For JR to say that then the person who called her gave her that information and the checks were hourly by all accounts, it then changed to half hour by inserting M.O, again in my opinion.


I thought that as far as checks went they all checked their own children each night but THAT night was the first they all started checking on each othes kids, am I wrong?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.11.16 19:06

@MayMuse wrote:
@Equity wrote:
@Roxyroo wrote:I've always wondered if M.O. was meant to be the one to discover MBM missing when he did his check but he either honestly didn't notice she wasn't there or he backed out of it.
 

I've always thought this a possibility and considered he may have been 'set up' to make a discovery but instead of entering the apartment he just listened as he walked passed (just out of laziness rather than anything nefarious) when he returned to the table he brazenly said, when asked... been in - checked on the kids - they're all fine.

Maybe certain people at the table were left more than a little perplexed by this?
Why would M.O. check just that night?  And not any other? and supposedly only on "Madeleine" (their words) when the twins were in that apartment too. 

I do not believe that he checked that evening whatsoever, another fabrication in my opinion.

Remember in the first statements there was no mention of M.O checking, this came later after they all had time to think.
The first information to come out in the news was by Jill Renwick, a friend of Kate's I believe; she said that Kate and Gerry were checking and could visually see the room, that they left the apartment at 8pm, Gerry checked at 9pm then Kate checked at 10pm to find Madeleine  missing. For JR to say that then the person who called her gave her that information and the checks were hourly by all accounts, it then changed to half hour by inserting M.O, again in my opinion.
I'm entirely with @ MayMuse on this one, though I can see why @ Equity and @ Roxyroo thought otherwise.

There are a few relevant facts about Oldfield in the first of the Madeleine McCann Research group's '50 FACTS' series of leaflets, here:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11673-50-facts-about-the-maddie-case-that-the-british-media-are-not-telling-you 
5. Dr Matthew Oldfield claimed he and his wife arrived at the Tapas bar at 8.55pm, but then went back to the Paynes’ apartment to chase them up as they were late. Dr Russell O’Brien confirmed that: “Matt, around 9pm, got up and said ‘I’ll go and drag them out’.” The Paynes flatly contradicted this.

6. Dr Matthew Oldfield changed his story several times. He said he did one ‘check’ on the children, then said he’d done two. He changed his story about the 2nd check, first saying that he walked by the McCanns’ apartment, later saying he’d entered it. Dr Kate McCann claimed Dr Oldfield said, at 9.30pm: “I’ll check on Maddie for you”. Why didn’t he say: “I’ll check on the children?”


On the subject of the checking arrangements, this is my view:

Saturday: All in the Millennium with the 8 children - NO CHECKING

Sunday: Evidence of a crisis, they didn't east out - NO CHECKING

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, eating at the Tapas, one adult left in charge of all - NO CHECKING

Thursday: Twins probably being looked after by the Paynes, maybe the other children as well, Madeleine not there - HOAX CHECKING ONLY, all done for show and all checks fabricated - NO CHECKING

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 17.11.16 23:01

@Tony Bennett wrote:TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.
REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well.
Missing  [night of 3rd May 2007]

Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight. Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.11.16 23:47

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.
REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well.
Missing  [night of 3rd May 2007]

Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight. Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
I think this is quite important.

If you look back at Post No 2 on this thread (bits in red about BBC man James Landale) you will see that Dr Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner, Rachael Oldfield and Matthew Oldfield all describe themselves as 'friends' of James Landale.

So, two doctors who both know the main Diplomatic correspondent of the BBC [source: Wikipedia]. Now, the British Ambassador was handily on the scene the very next day ordering the Portuguese police about, telling them to let the McCanns wash their clothes etc.

So it wasn't just the McCanns who were 'well connected'

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Mirage on 18.11.16 0:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.
REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well.
Missing  [night of 3rd May 2007]

Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight. Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
I think this is quite important.

If you look back at Post No 2 on this thread (bits in red about BBC man James Landale) you will see that Dr Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner, Rachael Oldfield and Matthew Oldfield all describe themselves as 'friends' of James Landale.

So, two doctors who both know the main Diplomatic correspondent of the BBC [source: Wikipedia]. Now, the British Ambassador was handily on the scene the very next day ordering the Portuguese police about, telling them to let the McCanns wash their clothes etc.

So it wasn't just the McCanns who were 'well connected'
I can't find it at the moment but I recall reading that Kerry Needham awoke early on the morning of the 4th to a garden full of reporters who wanted to know (after years of disinterest in her case) if she had heard the news about the missing girl in Portugal.

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 0:50

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.
REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well.
Missing  [night of 3rd May 2007]

Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight. Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
I think this is quite important.

If you look back at Post No 2 on this thread (bits in red about BBC man James Landale) you will see that Dr Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner, Rachael Oldfield and Matthew Oldfield all describe themselves as 'friends' of James Landale.

So, two doctors who both know the main Diplomatic correspondent of the BBC [source: Wikipedia]. Now, the British Ambassador was handily on the scene the very next day ordering the Portuguese police about, telling them to let the McCanns wash their clothes etc.

So it wasn't just the McCanns who were 'well connected'
I don't think there can be any doubt about that.  Even Jon Corner in a small time capacity has media contacts and there has been many a mention of contacts in a 'useful' profession. 
 
At present I'm still very confused about the JJ person - so far I haven't seen anything to suggest a) he was right or b) he was wrong.  As I see it, his main beef against you and the forum, relates to your past comments about two of the Tapas group retracting at least part of their witness statements - as it stands I only see a status quo.  You, supported by others, maintain that at least two of the Tapas group for whatever reason, wished to amend their original statements - a claim that JJ and cohorts vehemently dispute.  There is evidence over a period of several months (September 2007 - April 2008) that members of the group did indeed wish to change their story, perhaps for self preservation?  I would go so far as to say they DID change their stories, as evidenced by the rogatory interviews.

I realise the subject matter takes in other aspects of the Tapas groups conflicting stories but the focal point remains in limbo - or have I missed something vital?

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 0:52

@Mirage wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:TONY BENNETT’S ANSWRS TO JJ’s FOUR QUESTIONS

2 The role of James Landale and the BBC on the night of May3rd/4th.
REPLY: Good question. I would like to know about this as well.
Missing  [night of 3rd May 2007]

Though we knew little of what was going on at the time, it is true that the news filtered through overnight. Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
I think this is quite important.

If you look back at Post No 2 on this thread (bits in red about BBC man James Landale) you will see that Dr Russell O'Brien, Jane Tanner, Rachael Oldfield and Matthew Oldfield all describe themselves as 'friends' of James Landale.

So, two doctors who both know the main Diplomatic correspondent of the BBC [source: Wikipedia]. Now, the British Ambassador was handily on the scene the very next day ordering the Portuguese police about, telling them to let the McCanns wash their clothes etc.

So it wasn't just the McCanns who were 'well connected'
I can't find it at the moment but I recall reading that Kerry Needham awoke early on the morning of the 4th to a garden full of reporters who wanted to know (after years of disinterest in her case) if she had heard the news about the missing girl in Portugal.
Yes, you are quite right - this was mentioned quite recently on another thread if I remember correctly.

Kate McCann's autobiographical novel details a number of 'contacts' that were made on the night of 3rd/4th May 2007, so I think it can be safely said that the group were 'in the know' so to speak

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by Verdi on 18.11.16 1:06

Rachael Oldfield

Rachael trained and worked as a lawyer at Richards Butler before joining the team at Equity FD in 2002. She is an experienced recruitment consultant recruiting finance directors and CFOs into businesses that are privately owned, private equity backed and/or have a degree of leverage. Rachael has built up a network of contacts and clients which include stand alone businesses as well as private equity houses, banks, advisors, chairmen and CEOs.

At Equity FD Rachael has worked with start ups and early stage ventures as well as established businesses which are UK based and/or have international operations. Equity FD does not focus on a particular business sector and she has recruited FDs for companies across the sectors including into business and financial services, leisure and travel, retail and consumer, software and technology, healthcare, media and manufacturing.

Rachael has worked with clients across the UK and Europe sourcing FDs for businesses as far afield as Bristol, Liverpool and Poland!

Prior to joining Equity FD, Rachael was a tax lawyer working in London for 5 years; then in Melbourne, Australia for 2 years. She read law at Reading University before going on to Law School in Guildford.

http://equityfd.com/the_team/rachael_oldfield/

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Re: Did Robert Murat meet with Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne & Russell O'Brien on the night of 3 May outside G5A? Who lied about this? - Murat or the Tapas 3? And more about the call that night to James Landale of the BBC [A reply to JJ]

Post by MayMuse on 18.11.16 10:31

@Verdi wrote:Rachael Oldfield

Rachael trained and worked as a lawyer at Richards Butler before joining the team at Equity FD in 2002. She is an experienced recruitment consultant recruiting finance directors and CFOs into businesses that are privately owned, private equity backed and/or have a degree of leverage. Rachael has built up a network of contacts and clients which include stand alone businesses as well as private equity houses, banks, advisors, chairmen and CEOs.

At Equity FD Rachael has worked with start ups and early stage ventures as well as established businesses which are UK based and/or have international operations. Equity FD does not focus on a particular business sector and she has recruited FDs for companies across the sectors including into business and financial services, leisure and travel, retail and consumer, software and technology, healthcare, media and manufacturing.

Rachael has worked with clients across the UK and Europe sourcing FDs for businesses as far afield as Bristol, Liverpool and Poland!

Prior to joining Equity FD, Rachael was a tax lawyer working in London for 5 years; then in Melbourne, Australia for 2 years. She read law at Reading University before going on to Law School in Guildford.

http://equityfd.com/the_team/rachael_oldfield/
Rachael is living her life with an interesting array of connections, seemingly untouched by those events in 2007 where she was party to a little girl disappearing? 
IMO

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