Re: Photographs and memories

by uppatoffee 06.05.12 0:59

Spaniel wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The strip is the 2005-2006 kit.
Surely the colour's wrong. But hey, I didn't even know it was cup final today, nor do I know who Chelsea beat.

The historical kit link did not show the home shirt for that season Spaniel. Everton's home shirt is plain blue, normally with white shorts.

In terms of sizes a 2-3 would normally be 92-98cm.

The twins were born 1 Feb 2005, so I would say the top photo they are at least a year old, so Feb 2006 at earliest.

by TheTruthWillOut 06.05.12 1:06

uppatoffee wrote:
Spaniel wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The strip is the 2005-2006 kit.
Surely the colour's wrong. But hey, I didn't even know it was cup final today, nor do I know who Chelsea beat.

The historical kit link did not show the home shirt for that season Spaniel. Everton's home shirt is plain blue, normally with white shorts.

In terms of sizes a 2-3 would normally be 92-98cm.

The twins were born 1 Feb 2005, so I would say the top photo they are at least a year old, so Feb 2006 at earliest.

Did you catch my edit on the previous page uppatoffee? I too find it interesting that the 2/3 year old shirt is for kids 92-98cm high. It seems to fit her nicely so why a year or more later was she said to be 90cm?

Always found the height issue weird.

by Spaniel 06.05.12 1:15

uppatoffee wrote:
Spaniel wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The strip is the 2005-2006 kit.
Surely the colour's wrong. But hey, I didn't even know it was cup final today, nor do I know who Chelsea beat.

The historical kit link did not show the home shirt for that season Spaniel. Everton's home shirt is plain blue, normally with white shorts.

In terms of sizes a 2-3 would normally be 92-98cm.

The twins were born 1 Feb 2005, so I would say the top photo they are at least a year old, so Feb 2006 at earliest.

Well how silly, I assumed a historical kit list would include them all. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by uppatoffee 06.05.12 1:24

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:
Spaniel wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:The strip is the 2005-2006 kit.
Surely the colour's wrong. But hey, I didn't even know it was cup final today, nor do I know who Chelsea beat.

The historical kit link did not show the home shirt for that season Spaniel. Everton's home shirt is plain blue, normally with white shorts.

In terms of sizes a 2-3 would normally be 92-98cm.

The twins were born 1 Feb 2005, so I would say the top photo they are at least a year old, so Feb 2006 at earliest.

Did you catch my edit on the previous page uppatoffee? I too find it interesting that the 2/3 year old shirt is for kids 92-98cm high. It seems to fit her nicely so why a year or more later was she said to be 90cm?

Always found the height issue weird.

I agree, the height thing does seem odd. I guess the question is really whether anyone really believes Madeleine was only 90cm in May 2007. Who actually said this? If it was Gerry then that wouldn't surprise me, as he is unlikely to know how tall she is. If Kate, well I'd expect her to be more on the ball as she would probably be buying clothes more often, so would be more aware of it. I know that my 3yr old is just over 90cm, but not sure my hubby would. big grin

by TheTruthWillOut 06.05.12 1:33

uppatoffee wrote:I agree, the height thing does seem odd. I guess the question is really whether anyone really believes Madeleine was only 90cm in May 2007. Who actually said this? If it was Gerry then that wouldn't surprise me, as he is unlikely to know how tall she is. If Kate, well I'd expect her to be more on the ball as she would probably be buying clothes more often, so would be more aware of it. I know that my 3yr old is just over 90cm, but not sure my hubby would.

I have never heard either say she was 90cm (or dispute it) but for the description of Madeleine issued through the media it was stated she was 90cm high and that info can only come from the parents.

by jd 06.05.12 2:27

Yes this document was circulated to all the media and internet on 8th May 2007. It says 90cm tall. Notice under 'Distinguishing Marks And Characteristics' it mentions the brown spot on Maddies left knee. Why do they never ever mention this for Maddie spotters as these will show the spotter if there is a vague chance the girl they are frightening maybe Maddie. Not many girls have brown spots behind their left knee

Notice it also says "Also known as Maddie"......Didn't the mccanns say they never called her Maddie earlier!

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by Spaniel 06.05.12 2:36

jd wrote:Yes this document was circulated to all the media and internet on 8th May 2007. It says 90cm tall. Notice under 'Distinguishing Marks And Characteristics' it mentions the brown spot on Maddies left knee. Why do they never ever mention this for Maddie spotters as these will show the spotter if there is a vague chance the girl they are frightening maybe Maddie. Not many girls have brown spots behind their left knee

Notice it also says "Also known as Maddie"......Didn't the mccanns say they never called her Maddie earlier!

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I remember an early interview when KM was about to volunteer the info about the brown spot and GM stopped her. I wonder why?

by jd 06.05.12 2:48

No mentioning of a unique marking to the public to help find her, no medical records given, no dental records given, no toothbrush given.....Did they ever want to find Maddie???

by **tigger** 06.05.12 6:37

jd wrote:Yes this document was circulated to all the media and internet on 8th May 2007. It says 90cm tall. Notice under 'Distinguishing Marks And Characteristics' it mentions the brown spot on Maddies left knee. Why do they never ever mention this for Maddie spotters as these will show the spotter if there is a vague chance the girl they are frightening maybe Maddie. Not many girls have brown spots behind their left knee

Notice it also says "Also known as Maddie"......Didn't the mccanns say they never called her Maddie earlier!

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1.6: Also known as MADDIE
In the BBC interview with John McCann in the week following the abduction he calls her Maddie too. He also says she can be stroppy ....lovely family - why did they all need to lie about it? If they hadn't it wouldn't be significant.
Why is calling her Maddie 'disrespectful' ?

by FH 06.05.12 12:36

Hi, I am fairly new on here and spent last night trawling through this thread. Please don't take offence, I understand exactly why people are desperate to find clues about what happened, but I think a lot of people are over analysing the photos and making comments as if they are facts not opinions and this only adds to the confusion and fuel to the McCann pro lobby.

Whilst I'm sure a few photos are obviously photoshopped, the majority are snaps, not posed photos and appearances/colourings/expressions etc vary vastly in snaps. I have have 3 girls and looking through their photos, I don't see huge differences between mine and a lot of the photo's of madeleine, including the ones a lot of people think are inappropriate. I have photos of my children eating ice creams, leaning over backwards and wearing make up and looking tired and looking sad/grumpy and looking happy/silly and looking spotless/dirty/unkempt/tousled......That's what snaps of active little girls are like ime.

Some of the comments I would disagree with are

Gerry dies his hair because "hair colour doesn't change" - It does, my husband started life blond, was ginger/auburn in his teens and brown by his twenties. My nieces started off brown and turned auburn when they hit puberty.

Madeleine looks very different in photos. I have 3 girls and they look very different in snaps, in some I only know it is them (not a look alike) because I took the picture. Their faces change with time, with their mood, with their expressions, with the lighting and with their weight which fluctuates because they go chubby, then grow and slim down. I think a forensic scientist would need to really analyse the photos with software to be able to tell anything about which ones are Madeleine. I'm assuming SY are on this, but who knows. I don't think anyone can do it by eye. Perhaps the differences are because some have been photoshopped to make her more asthaetically pleasing to look at. Narcisists do like everything to be perfect.

Madeleine's hair/skin changes colour light to dark - This could be as simple as lighting, the shutter speed on the different cameras and the amount of exposure each picture gets. Plus my middle child's hair is mid brown and will lighten dramatically after a couple of days in the sun - especially if she's at the beach, or in the sea/pool, plus she (and many of her little friends) has natural highlights that someone claimed looked professionally done on Madeleine. There is an optical illusion of a rubik's type cube which has brown squares on two sides which look completely different colours, until you fade out the surrounding squares colours and see they are the same. It is just the contrast of the surrounding that makes them look different.

Madeleine's hair length changes too quickly. Maybe it does, but my eldest has hair that grows at least an inch a month. She had shoulder length ringlets at one and waist length ringlets at 3. Her nails grow very fast too. Not everyone's hair grows at the average 1/2 inch a month.

Not having photos of Madeleine means she wasn't there. It soooo doesn't. We came back from one holiday with no photos of our middle daughter because we had to take turns to go to the beach to fit in with one, or other childs sleep patterns. I always went with the eldest and youngest in the afternoon with the camera and my husband did the morning shift with the older 2 girls with no camera, so no pictures of middle child. We spent all day with our children - still no photos of middle child. The McCanns hardly seemed to spend any time with their children, so it's not surprising there are few photos. My husband and I aren't really into taking photo's though and did I read Kate was an avid photographer? - you might expect more in that case, but no child in photos doesn't mean she wasn't there, or she wasn't loved.

Lots of little girls - mine included - love playing dress up and I have many photos of mine in princess outfits with makeup, nail varnish... My eldest lived in Belle and Esmerelda dressing up clothes the whole of one summer. I have photos. They are not photos taken for perverts to enjoy/fantasise over. They are photos taken of little girls doing what little girls do in a totally innocent way. If people want to read more into them, then that is their issue. I suspect if you trawled through any family album there will be photos some people would think suspect.

I'm also not conviced that turning down/up the contrast does anything more than make dark thing look darker. Is it forensically valid? Is it showing up bruises, or is it just an aretefact of changing the contrast on any picture? Dark things look darker. Doesn't mean it's a bruise. It just means dark things (make up, shadows etc) are enhanced. What happens when you apply the technique to other photos, of other people? Do you get similar effects?

There is however one thing that really concerns me about the eyeshadow photo and it is nothing to do with the makeup, or the appropriateness - at first glance it just looks like a snap of a tired little girl who likes playing dress up taken by someone sitting on the floor, or even taken by herself - again I have numerous photos of my children taken from that perspective where they have had the camera at arms length, pointing it at themsleves and taken a photo. The thing that REALLY concerns me is that her LEFT pupil looks very dilated. It could be shadows/reflections, but a blown pupil can be a sign of brain injury. Some children have unequal pupils naturally, but I'm not aware Madeleine did. To paraphrase, "if she had hit her head in the apartment how would that be anyone's fault?" Just a thought. Someone may find a copy of this photo where her eyes look fine in which case ignore me.

I am a great believer in Occam's razor - The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations.

Regardless of the differences in the photos, I don't think there were multiple Maddie's, I think there was some serious photoshopping going on on some of the photos. Multiple Maddie's is too complicated. Where did they live? Who looked after them all? Why would multiple Maddie's think of G+K are their parents, why would so many people cover for them? It's just far too over complicated. I think there was one Madeleine. I would love to think she was abducted and is living with new parents who love and cherish her and don't leave her unattended in a strange place, BUT I have 3 springers and I know dogs DON't lie. Although we don't know whose cadaver left the scent in 5A, the dog only detected cadaver scent in the McCann's apartment, the McCann's hire car and the McCann's possessions and I read somewhere it was taken to other apartments and there are certainly other cars in the garage on the video. In addition I think I read that although the blood at the same spot could not be identified 100% as being Madeleine's, there were enough markers for it to be a familial match, so a match to Maddie/Amelie or Sean and Amelie and Sean are still here and alive, Madeleine is missing, so sadly I fear that the PJ explanation is correct.

Wouldn't it be awesome if she was adbucted, NOT for abusers, but to get her away from abusers. No matter what TM say, in most people's opinions, leaving 3 under 4's unattended in a strange place at night is a form of neglect and neglect IS a form of child abuse. I have been on sports related child protection courses where they suggest 12 year olds shouldn't be left home alone in the evening for any extended periods as it constitutes neglect.

No offence intended to anyone on this thread. I'm not trying to discredit anyone. I'm just trying to be objective. You are all doing a tremendous job keeping public awareness up. We are all desperate for there to be a resolution, I just think we sometimes can't see the wood for the trees.

by Ribisl 06.05.12 13:15

FH wrote:Hi, I am fairly new on here and spent last night trawling through this thread. Please don't take offence, I understand exactly why people are desperate to find clues about what happened, but I think a lot of people are over analysing the photos and making comments as if they are facts not opinions and this only adds to the confusion and fuel to the McCann pro lobby...

FH, I totally agree with your sentiments. When I first joined this forum earlier this year I took a similar stand and posted a few comments about facts versus suppositions. But where there is lack of hard evidence, we can only hazard a guess based on information available, and it is just possible that out of those seemingly wild hypothses and unsubstantiated speculations, we may even spot a gleam of truth one day.

by **tigger** 06.05.12 14:16

Well, I hate to get boring. But it's the coloboma you see - alerted a number of people to the fact it wasn't in the same position in every photograph. Also a slightly different shape quite often. Now that's impossible.
In some stills for film there was no coloboma at all - same in some photographs. So that's one point.

Point two is that some photoshopping is very amateur, such as the Everton T shirt with the raised arm, but most of all in the double ice-cream photo. Where her left arm cannot possibly connect with the elbow. That one is too suggestive for words in any case, certainly with the ice cream cone added.

I'm leaving it at that - but my point is: these are indisputable facts, obvious once you know. One then looks at any other offering with jaundiced eyes. I agree on the bruises, the hands - can all be explained. Not important. But anything offered by TM is likely to get picked over - I don't trust anyone who's proved to be so economical with the truth.

by Guest 06.05.12 17:42

jd wrote:No mentioning of a unique marking to the public to help find her, no medical records given, no dental records given, no toothbrush given.....Did they ever want to find Maddie???

If they consciously obstructed finding her, witholding all these essential data, could this mean that :
a. she is alive and findable, but for some reason they prefer her to remain where she is right now -think of the media tornado ensuing from her being rediscovered and brought home in triumph!
b. she is dead, they know or suspect she is and they're not sure her remains are in a 'safe' place where she's definitely unrecognisable.

Very sad, all of this.

by FH 06.05.12 19:55

I the coloboma was supposed to be in her right eye and I think it is sort of visible in the eyeshadow photo. It's the pupil of the left eye that looks very, very dilated. Nothing Like the other coloboma photos. Do we know where/when this photo was taken?

by pauline 06.05.12 20:37

FH

congratulations on your long thoughtful post re over interpretation. I agree.

by jd 07.05.12 1:52

Portia wrote:
jd wrote:No mentioning of a unique marking to the public to help find her, no medical records given, no dental records given, no toothbrush given.....Did they ever want to find Maddie???

If they consciously obstructed finding her, witholding all these essential data, could this mean that :
a. she is alive and findable, but for some reason they prefer her to remain where she is right now -think of the media tornado ensuing from her being rediscovered and brought home in triumph!
b. she is dead, they know or suspect she is and they're not sure her remains are in a 'safe' place where she's definitely unrecognisable.

Very sad, all of this.

No parent would withhold their missing childs medical and dental records from the investigating police..dental records might only be the way of identifying the child. No parent would not give their childs toothbrush and claim all their kids use the same one. No parent (no human being) would wear the very same work clothes which came into contact with 6 bodies on holiday with them. No parent would take their childs toy to work to be in contact with the same 6 bodies, then give back to their child. No DNA of Maddie was found in PDL, the father had to go back to his originating country to get some (How do we know it was Maddies he came back with?)

They don't want any trace of Maddie, this is why they created the fabricated abduction story as there will be no body...No body, no medical records, no dental records, no toothbrush, no trace to what it is about Maddie that they don't want to be discovered

by jd 07.05.12 2:19

pauline wrote:FH

congratulations on your long thoughtful post re over interpretation. I agree.

I agree a very good long thoughtful post FH, thank you and I can relate to what you are saying. Though I disagree with many of the points but this is why we are here to discuss and bring our thoughts and knowledge to the table in getting to the truth & justice for Maddie

kate said how much she loved to photo Maddie and how much Maddie loved to be photographed, so to have none (at best 6) from the holiday doesn't stick with me. I will always find it very odd that there is not one single photo of mother and daughter, I will always find it odd there is not one of the mother anywhere. I will always find it odd that there is only 3 photos solely of their daughter they so love to photograph (even though she looked so different in all 3). Their friends at least had plenty of photos of what you would expect a normal family to photograph on a holiday. Their friends were all so keen to check on Maddie and the twins in the apartment, so if they thought so much about them why didn't they take any holiday snaps? The picture of Maddie on the beach is nothing like the Maddie in the poolside pic, nor compared to the tennis girl (look at the size of her body for starters). The poolside pic was not on their camera that they gave the PJ. Where did it came from? This picture was released some 2 weeks later (23rd May 2007) and only 'after' gerry had been back to the UK to (as philomena says) 'to go through all the family pictures and videos'..The airport bus video also was released on the 24th May 'after' gerry had been back to the UK. Why were these pictures never given to the police, nor on their cameras, nor released on the 3rd May?

Look at Maddies rather long neck in the Donegal pictures which was taken a month prior to PDL. So different to PDL, she looks like she has been stretched.

What they did have though in less than an hour of kate discovering Maddie had gone, were printed posters of Maddie on photographic paper which cannot be bought in PDL. The police never found where they got this from. They were distributing this poster before the police got there. Within 60 mins of discovering their daughter had gone missing, how did they get a poster put together (using an old picture of Maddie, where was this stored?), typed out and printed in the middle of night in a town where you cannot buy this paper, and with shops closed. Who made the poster? Not to mention the panic they should have been under, looking for Maddie at that time should be the one and only thought and priority, not making posters. Maybe this is why they had to rip off the back of their missing daughters sticker book, they had run out of paper even though reception had plenty

by Genbug 07.05.12 11:25

jd wrote:
Portia wrote:
jd wrote:No mentioning of a unique marking to the public to help find her, no medical records given, no dental records given, no toothbrush given.....Did they ever want to find Maddie???

If they consciously obstructed finding her, witholding all these essential data, could this mean that :
a. she is alive and findable, but for some reason they prefer her to remain where she is right now -think of the media tornado ensuing from her being rediscovered and brought home in triumph!
b. she is dead, they know or suspect she is and they're not sure her remains are in a 'safe' place where she's definitely unrecognisable.

Very sad, all of this.

No parent would withhold their missing childs medical and dental records from the investigating police..dental records might only be the way of identifying the child. No parent would not give their childs toothbrush and claim all their kids use the same one. No parent (no human being) would wear the very same work clothes which came into contact with 6 bodies on holiday with them. No parent would take their childs toy to work to be in contact with the same 6 bodies, then give back to their child. No DNA of Maddie was found in PDL, the father had to go back to his originating country to get some (How do we know it was Maddies he came back with?)

*************

JD, not sure if a three year old would have dental records? I expect much younger Mums would be more up to date with childrens dentistry, but I know that when mine were that age, all they'd had was a quick check up to make sure their teeth were progressing normally, no records taken.
They don't want any trace of Maddie, this is why they created the fabricated abduction story as there will be no body...No body, no medical records, no dental records, no toothbrush, no trace to what it is about Maddie that they don't want to be discovered

by uppatoffee 07.05.12 11:53

My 3 year old had her first dental appt at 2 1/2. By almost 4 I would definitely have expected Madeleine to have been a couple of times.

by jd 07.05.12 13:35

Don't forget these parents were NHS Doctors

by FH 07.05.12 16:24

My first long post was simply the conclusions I came to after trawling through the whole thread. I do find it is good to discuss things with other people as it makes me re-evaluate my theories as to what happened.

I wasn't trying to discredit any of the theories proposed on this thread, I was simply playing Devil's advocate and really just trying to point out that although there are obviously photoshopped pictures, there are many other conclusions drawn in this thread for which there could be other explanations eg There are no photos of Maddie because a) she was never there or b) because they didn't bother taking any. They hardly seemed to spend any time with their children so b) is quite likely. Also, we know Kate lies, there is so much documented evidence of this eg coloboma/fleck , forced shutters, patio doors open/locked........ People lie for many reasons. To cover up things they have done, to cover up things they haven't done that they should have, to protect other people AND MOST OFTEN to make themselves seem nicer/better/more interesting. People lie to other people and people LIE TO THEMSELVES. While we know she lies, we don't know why. IMO KM often lies to make herself look like a better parent so the "taking lots of photos" could be to bolster her own internal image. Anyway, as far as we are aware they could have 300 photo albums at home, but they have only chosen to release a few pictures. Perhaps Photoshopping a coloboma onto all the photos in 300 photo albums was too time consuming? KM tries really hard to project the image of the good parent, but, at the very least the child is missing because of poor parenting. Not sure how she reconciles those facts. I need to do some reading on narcissistic personality disorders. I have a feeling that everything has to appear to be perfect and the whole world has to revolve around them. I did once read that in a crisis narcissists will save themselves first, even before their offspring. Anyway, if Madeleine was never in PDL where did the cadaver odour come from, or are you not a fan of the dogs evidence?

Another argument I read for her not being there was "they didn't find any of Maddie's DNA in the apartment" - is this a fact? Did they find anyone's/everyone else's DNA in the appartment, apart from in the blood splatter? If so whose? I'm assuming they took swabs from the rest of the family /group for elimination. If that is the case, then it would be very foolish of the parents to provide incorrect DNA for Madeleine as it wouldn't match. Is the lack of DNA significant, or is it fairly normal at a crime scene. Personally I don't believe that life is like CSI and that there is always a spotlessly clean carpet with single hair from the perpetrator with a root attached to extract DNA from to catch the perpetrator. My house could keep a forensic lab busy for months. Perhaps I don't hoover enough.

A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that a Dr wouldn't wear the same clothes to work and on holiday - remember cadaverine is persistent after washing, or take a toy to work with them to visit dead bodies... Whilst I agree it seems extremely unlikely and a simpler explanation is probably much more likely, the things people actually do never fails to surprise me. I really doubt they would take a dead patient with them on holiday and keep them behind the sofa, but who knows.

I don't doubt there are some dubious photos - including the one by the pool. Perhaps that was manufactured to prove a point. I came across a tremendous theory/timeline on here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which fitted many of the discrepancies. Doesn't seem to be visible today. It basically proposes that no-one credible saw her on the 3rd and the normal daily routine changed dramatically that day, so she probably died before then, which would give them time to plan the abduction, make the posters, sort out the media contacts so the papers could publish her disappearance a couple of hours after she was reported missing etc. The "last" photo had to be manufactured as evidence she was alive on the 3rd.

I think the PJ conclusion is still fairly accurate. She was there in PDL. Left unattended. Had an accident - possibly because she had been sedated after the previous nights crying. Died. Lay long enough to produce cadaverine. Was discovered. PANIC. Possible neglect charges, or autopsy would show up sedation/something worse, so abduction theory cooked up. Was moved somewhere else..... Was declared missing and so begins the whole circus we have witnessed for the last 5 years. Part of my brain thinks the "abducted by a paedophile" story could have been to cover up any evidence of abuse on the body in case it was found - again that would have shown up in an autopsy, so NO autopsy even if it was simply a tragic accident. When did they change their story to adbucted and not harmed? Could it possibly have changed after the body had been put in a safe place, at that point it was safe to say she could have been abducted and not harmed as no-one would be able to prove any different.

Even though I know the evidence stacks up against her being alive, I do still hope we are all wrong and she's out there somewhere. No-one would be happier than me , if she was found safe.

WRT your last post - NHS Doctors

They were NHS Doctors and they left 3 children alone night after night, go figure?

As the child of a doctor, the sister of a nurse and a pharmacist and the aunt of a doctor the phrase "cobbler's bairns are always the worst shod" comes to my mind. Not that any of my relatives are in any way abusive or neglectful with their children, it's just that they see so many people, with such serious problems, they tend to be quite laid back with their own children. They have much less fear about administering medication too. I'm sure the odd dose of phenergan (anti histamine causes drowsiness) has found it's way into a child that was off colour and not sleeping and that's not exclusive to Dr's, I have friends who have done this.

Having been brought up in a medical environment, I find it quite funny when people state things like "They are Dr's, they would/wouldn't do that". A pro McCann colleague at work was horrified that I could think Dr's would lie about a child being abducted. Why would they cover it up? When I suggested that for some reason best known to them, they couldn't afford the body to be autopsied, he was aghast. For a lot of people it is impossible to think medical professionals could behave in such a way. I wish the british public would wake up. Dr's are human beings like every body else, they behave like everybody else. Some are awesome parents, some are dreadful. They don't always take the kids to the dentist when they should, they don't always take them to A&E when they should. They are just people (who can legally prescribe medication). Even if they had taken her to the dentist, there probably wouldn't be X-rays, she was too young to require X-rays, so no useful dental records. No medical records released - well that's a completely different can of worms.

by **tigger** 07.05.12 17:51

FH wrote:I the coloboma was supposed to be in her right eye and I think it is sort of visible in the eyeshadow photo. It's the pupil of the left eye that looks very, very dilated. Nothing Like the other coloboma photos. Do we know where/when this photo was taken?

Yes, probably in Burgau. You should read that topic, it's not so long as this one! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In the film made by Jon Corner the coloboma is visible for a second then suddenly it's gone. No definitely pasted in every photo released, except e.g. when she comes out of the playhouse in PdL and a number of other earlier photographs.
In any case it was 'just a fleck' you could only see when you were really close - according to Kate on the Pier Morgan interview last year. You can't have it both ways. Either you could spot it easily and it was a distinguishing mark to find her or you'd need to be really close to her to see it. It was a terrific marketing 'logo'. Imo it also saved them the trouble to have to go all over the world and identify children who'd not be Maddie.

Perhaps you should look on this topic: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Every one of these is Maddie and imo she isn't looking at all well in quite a few of them. The one on the pony is supposed to be two weeks after Donegal.

by FH 07.05.12 18:28

It's funny how she looks so baggy eyed in a lot of photos. I can't make up my mind if she looks unwell or just tired. Perhaps she wasn't well a lot of the time, small children can pick up a lot of bugs. Perhaps a poor immune system, or allergies? Is she baggy eyed at a particular time of year - pollen perhaps? Perhaps she's baggy eyed most of the time, but they've been photoshopped in close ups. Might as well remove the bags while you add the coloboma?

I'll have a look at the Bergau thread - thanks. I had hoped someone else might say they could see the very dilated left pupil in the eye shadow photo and that the photo was taken on 2nd of May. Bumped head, blown pupil, brain injury -collapse while left alone in apt. I know it's probably cluthing at straws, but there are comments that strike me as revealing, particularily the ones about

If Madeleine had accidentally bumped her head" before going on to say that there were plenty of people there who could have tried to revive a child?

Also the one about the tennis bag not being big enough to hide a er tennis racket

.....................................................................................................................................Martin Brunt: "There are 30 Met officers - the equivalent of a murder squad - working on the review and I'm told that a senior officer is having to give regular spending updates to the Home Office which is funding an operation that will cost several million and last many months."....Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'.....Manuel Catriano: "This story did not begin in the Ocean Club, but in London where the 'official truth' was conspired and established: an English girl was kidnapped in the Algarve."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Dr Katherina Gaspar witnesses a scene with David Payne and Gerry McCann which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children"....Gonçalo Amaral: " I have understood their game. The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Under the old Penal Process, how do I ask Kate: "Are you lying when you say you didn't touch the window? As a matter of fact, it was you who opened the window. We have material evidence of that. A question like this forces the constitution of arguido...".....Tony Bennett: "The Madeleine Foundation has now sent a 32-page letter and a bundle of supporting evidence to the Scotland Yard 'Maddie Case' Review Team".............Gonçalo Amaral: "The little girl died in the apartment. Everything is in the book, which is faithful to the investigation until September: it reflects the understanding of the Portuguese and the English police and of the Public Ministry. For all of us until then the concealment of the cadaver, the simulation of abduction and the exposure or abandonment were proved."...Gonçalo Amaral: "For the McCanns to ask for the process to be reopened, all it would take is a letter to the prosecutor...it costs them nothing, just the stamp on the letter."...Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."...Gonçalo Amaral: "There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal."...Kate Healy was not immediately made an arguida, but merely interviewed voluntarily as a witness. Only after her interview was she made an arguida, that is, after she was confronted with concrete facts that might lead to her incrimination."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the McCanns admit that their daughter is dead, they can no longer collect money from the Maddie fund, and that's a lot of money, over one million pounds. That's why they say that the girl was abducted."...Kate McCann: "This pair (Carter Ruck lawyers) continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly behind the scenes."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Nowadays I have no doubts left, the archival for various reasons, was mainly due to political pressures made by the English - I have no doubts about that."...Gonçalo Amaral: "I remind you that they demanded the archiving of the process, in 2008, when they were arguidos, merely to defend their image. They are not interested in the reopening of the process or of the investigation"...Gonçalo Amaral: "It's too big and too serious a burden to be concealed by so many people for their entire lives."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Let's remember it is totally logical to find Madeleine's DNA in the home, but absolutely not in a car rented more than twenty days after her disappearance."...Tony Bennett: "The question is: exactly what is it about Madeleine's disappearance that caused such a massive level of government activity, including MI5 and secret service type groups like Control Risks Group, to become involved, and so quickly and in such large numbers? Was it to help find a missing child? Or to locate an abductor?...Martin Grime: "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration."...Dr Vernon Coleman: "Would you hire the McCanns as babysitters?"...Gonçalo Amaral: "there were gestures and words indicating the existence of a child molester within that group of people"...Jose Barra da Costa, PJ: "There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of..."...Justine McGuiness: "We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to..."...C443 J.N. HUGHES: Background Information- Gerald McCANN - A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system....Dr Katherina Gaspar: "I remember Dave telling Gerry something like “she”, referring to Madeleine, “would do this”.. While he mentioned the word 'this', David was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple. I remember being shocked by that."...Sofia Leal: “My husband and I have never abandoned our daughters, or allowed paedophiles in our circle of friends. I am shocked that a couple who affirm to be religious is seeking out to destroy our family”...Gerry McCann: "There's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death"...

....................................................Why do the McCanns tell blatant lies and change their stories then threaten to sue those who question them? * Why did Gerry McCann say in his original statement that he used the front door with a key, then changed it in his second statement to the patio door which was unlocked? * Why did the McCanns transport rotting meat and dirty nappies to the tip in their car when there were bins nearby? * Why did the dogs only signal at the McCanns apartment, clothes and car? * Why didn't Kate have the twins checked if she thought they'd been sedated by the abductor? * Why did the McCanns tell the media the PJ had offered them a deal when the PJ can't offer deals? * Why were old photographs of Maddie released first when Kate had the latest photo on her camara? * Why was the Fund named after a police manual? * Why did Kate say the window had been jemmied when it hadn't? * Why were the only fingerprints on the window found to be Kates? * Why did the McCanns make excuses for the cadaver scent and bodily fluids found in their hire car? * Just what was Robert Murat's role in the Madeleine McCann disappearance? * John McCann gave up his job to be a director of the Fund - how did he know Maddie wouldn't be found that day? * Why did Clarence Mitchell give up a well paid job and pension to take up a PR job that might only last a few days? * Just how many false names are the McCanns allowing on their petition? * Who torched Sergei Malinka's car? * Who killed Goncalo Amaral's dog? * Why did our government try to make the McCanns Fund into a charity? * What did Maddie's disappearance have to do with The Chancellor, Gordon Brown? * Why did the McCanns claim to be devout catholics when Kate's mother said they weren't? * Why did the McCanns allow the sabotage of the crime scene? * Why did the McCanns refuse to co-operate with the investigation? * Why did Kate refuse to answer 48 questions that may have helped find Maddie? * Why did the McCanns refuse to take part in an official police reconstruction but then made a tv documentary? * Will other children, like Shannon Matthews, be at risk of copycat faked abductions? *
.......................................Gerry McCann: "Find the body and prove we killed her"....David Payne: "We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business"...David Payne: “We know they didn’t do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."...Clarence Mitchell: "There is a wholly innocent explanation for any material the police may or may not have found"...Clarence Mitchell: "Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine`s death"...Clarence Mitchell: "What goes on the internet has not been sanctioned by Kate and Gerry."...Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa: "There is one piece of stand alone evidence."...Michael Wright: "I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins’ nappies. I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill."...Eileen McCann: "If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to"...Clarence Mitchell: “Anybody who has given money to help find Madeleine need have no fear that their money is being spent on lawyers fees or anything like that.”...Clarence Mitchell: "Just put money into an envelope and send it to Kate and Gerry McCann, Rothley, it'll get there"........Kate McCann: "Rome is preparing itself for our visit."...Susan Healy: "Kate said last night 'If I weighed another two stone, had a bigger bosom and looked more maternal, people would be more sympathetic."...Kate McCann: "Be brave, sweetheart."...Martin Brunt: "We all thought they were a chavvy family from some estate in Essex who weren't looking after their children properly but the fact that these were two middle-aged, middle-income or, even high-income professionals, doctors, it did rather take on a different hue."...Carlos Anjos: "If that situation had been of an abduction, it would have been terrible for the child. Because if that child were to be sold, or something else... She was as good as... it was her death sentence. That situation, that day, advertising that photo, was simply the death sentence of that child."...Gerry McCann: "The iris is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”...Clarence Mitchell: "If she's dead then she's dead, but not by their hand"...Kate McCann: "My struggle to control 'very difficult' Madeleine"...Question 41 to Kate McCann: "Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?"...Maddie McCann: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"...Kate McCann: "...that means that, you know, she must have fallen back asleep very quickly, errm... and then she moved on… you know, she moved on."...Kate McCann: "I don't want to dwell on it too much."...Kate McCann:"When lunchtime came, Gerry and I were in the middle of another meeting when we discovered there was no one around to collect Sean and Amelie. We had to interrupt proceedings and go to the Toddler Club ourselves"...Maria Bandeirinha: “Kate passed by my door, laughing her head off, with a friend, days after her daughter disappeared. What mother has a child in an unknown location and feels like laughing?"...Kate McCann: "Well, it was our holiday too"....Kate McCann: "It's funny, we were having such a good time. We were with our friends and their kids. I think cos there was a group of us, you're just into each other, d'you know what I mean"...Gerry McCann: "If Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment – why would that be our fault?"...Kate McCann: "It was so dark...it was dark, erm I've never had such a long night it was dark and you're just praying for the light you know to come up to get out there..."...Rachael Oldfield: "I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”...Kate McCann: "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."...Kate McCann: "I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain"...Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."...Kate McCann's diary: "Gerry put on another great performance"...Daily Express reporter: "She and husband Gerry burst into laughter as they promoted her book about their lost daughter Madeleine."....Gerry McCann: "Ask the dogs, Sandra."...Gerry McCann: "It wasn't as bad as the night we found her..."...Gerry McCann: "Nothing of value was taken the night Madeleine disappeared"....Gerry McCann to Ed Smart: "Ed, I would not be surprised if they, you know, don't plant evidence in the car, you know, to have them think that there's DNA in this car that I rented after the fact is just outrageous, and what could they possibly have?"....Dave Edgar: "Maddie is in a secret lair in a lawless village in PDL"...Donal MacIntyre: Maddie's abductor cleaned the apartment, after a rehearsal, leaving no DNA...Gerry McCann: "My plan was to stay quiet and not answer."...John McCann: "It's not bad for a bunch of amateurs"...Moita Flores: "I have no doubts that the child died. Who knows, one day a fishing net will pick up a bag with a child's bones in it."...PJ Case Files: "Between 15h00 on August 4th 2007 and 06h30 on August 5th 2007, the following samples were recovered in the living room of apartment 5A at the OCEAN CLUB where a murder probably took place.".....Gonçalo Amaral: "The priests also know very well what happened that night.”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I receive a phone call from Sofia, who insists on my going home: our Shitzu dog is dead. She found it that morning, lifeless on the ground, with a head injury."...Dr Paulo Sargento: "Gonçalo Amaral is the visible target the McCanns want to take down"....Portuguese AG, Fernando Pinto Monteiro: "One way or another the McCanns were responsible for their child's death."...Gonçalo Amaral: “There are things that I haven’t said yet”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I am not shutting up"...........

.........................................................................................................................................................................................B Did Jim Gamble Sanitize Gerry McCann's CATS File 19309? * Barbara Nottage: "How did the alleged abductor snatch Madeleine in a time slot of no more than 3-4 Minutes? * Why did Kate McCann tell the Leveson Inquiry, under oath, that no bodily fluids were found in their hire car? * Why did Gerry McCann tell the Leveson Inquiry, under oath, that he strongly believes in freedom of speech and doesn't have a problem with anybody purporting a theory when he is instructing Carter-Ruck to take legal action to silence those who purport a theory based on the official Portuguese police files? * When referring to Robert Murat's arguido status why does Kate McCann state in her book that his 'formal status meant he would officially be treated as a suspect in the crime' but at the Leveson Inquiry the McCanns refer to their own arguido status, under oath, as merely meaning 'persons of interest'? * Why did Kate McCann take Maddie's Cuddle Cat toy to work and place it in contact with 6 dead bodies before taking it on holiday? * Why don't the McCanns advertise on their website or Facebook page that they have a £2.6 million pound reward for the safe return of Maddie? * Why did the McCanns allow the investigation to be shelved then complain that no police force is looking for Maddie? * Why hasn't Dr David Payne or Dr Gerry McCann sued Dr Katherina Gaspar for suggesting in her statement to the police that they are paedophiles? * Why has Gerry McCann got a registration number of 19309 in the child abuse CATS system? * Why won't the McCanns write to the Portuguese Prosecutor to reopen the process when all it will cost them, according to Gonçalo Amaral, is the stamp on the letter? * Why did the McCanns lie about Maddie's coloboma for 4 years? * Why is the date 2006 seen on Maddie's Online Shop when she disappeared in 2007? * Why did Gerry McCann say, on the airport bus, that he wasn't in Portugal to enjoy himself? * Maddie's Fund was created just 7 full working days after she 'disappeared' - how did the McCanns know so early on that she wouldn't be found soon? * Why does the Leicester police website link to the McCanns Fraudulent Fund when they are still uncleared prime suspects in hiding their daughters dead body? * Why did Maddie's pink blanket and Gerry's blue tennis bag disappear after the PJ photographed them? * Why did the McCanns wash the curtains behind the sofa in the holiday apartment when they'd only been there for a week? * Why did the McCanns delete all their text messages and phone records the night Maddie disappeared? * Eddie barks to alert to cadaver and Keela freezes at the source of blood - what are the chances of two separate, highly-trained, independent working dogs both alerting to the exact same area, and both of them being wrong? * If the McCanns claim they never called their daughter Maddie why did they allow the name Maddie to be printed on the inflatable billboard that they had transported from Scotland to Praia da Luz that advertised the £1.5 million reward? * McCanns P.I. Kevin Halligen squandered £500,000 of the Fund money on high living and, although he's currently in prison for unrelated $2million fraud charges, why didn't the McCanns sue him? * If Kate McCann was "certain" Maddie had been "murdered" (page 296, para 3 of her Carter-Ruck approved book) surely that means the whole issue of fundraising has been a massive lie? * Why did Rachael Oldfield say in her Rogatory Interview: "If Madeleine had accidentally been bumped on the head" rather than "If Madeleine had accidentally bumped her head" before going on to say that there were plenty of people there who could have tried to revive a child? * Why did the McCanns keep dirty nappies and rotting meat in the boot of their hire car and does that mean that the dogs' alerts behind the sofa and in the wardrobe in their holiday apartment aswell as outside on the verandah and in the flower bed were also dirty nappies and rotting meat?.......Why did the McCanns pay £37,000 for the FindMadeleine.com website? * How did a corrupt police officer like Antonio Giménez Raso, currently in prison for fraud, end up working as a lead investigator for the McCanns?.....Why did Philomena McCann tell Martin Brunt that Kate McCann was going to be charged with Madeleine's accidental death if Madeleine was abducted?............................................................

.....................................................................................................................................Martin Brunt: "There are 30 Met officers - the equivalent of a murder squad - working on the review and I'm told that a senior officer is having to give regular spending updates to the Home Office which is funding an operation that will cost several million and last many months."....Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'.....Manuel Catriano: "This story did not begin in the Ocean Club, but in London where the 'official truth' was conspired and established: an English girl was kidnapped in the Algarve."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Dr Katherina Gaspar witnesses a scene with David Payne and Gerry McCann which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children"....Gonçalo Amaral: " I have understood their game. The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Under the old Penal Process, how do I ask Kate: "Are you lying when you say you didn't touch the window? As a matter of fact, it was you who opened the window. We have material evidence of that. A question like this forces the constitution of arguido...".....Tony Bennett: "The Madeleine Foundation has now sent a 32-page letter and a bundle of supporting evidence to the Scotland Yard 'Maddie Case' Review Team".............Gonçalo Amaral: "The little girl died in the apartment. Everything is in the book, which is faithful to the investigation until September: it reflects the understanding of the Portuguese and the English police and of the Public Ministry. For all of us until then the concealment of the cadaver, the simulation of abduction and the exposure or abandonment were proved."...Gonçalo Amaral: "For the McCanns to ask for the process to be reopened, all it would take is a letter to the prosecutor...it costs them nothing, just the stamp on the letter."...Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."...Gonçalo Amaral: "There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal."...Kate Healy was not immediately made an arguida, but merely interviewed voluntarily as a witness. Only after her interview was she made an arguida, that is, after she was confronted with concrete facts that might lead to her incrimination."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the McCanns admit that their daughter is dead, they can no longer collect money from the Maddie fund, and that's a lot of money, over one million pounds. That's why they say that the girl was abducted."...Kate McCann: "This pair (Carter Ruck lawyers) continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly behind the scenes."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Nowadays I have no doubts left, the archival for various reasons, was mainly due to political pressures made by the English - I have no doubts about that."...Gonçalo Amaral: "I remind you that they demanded the archiving of the process, in 2008, when they were arguidos, merely to defend their image. They are not interested in the reopening of the process or of the investigation"...Gonçalo Amaral: "It's too big and too serious a burden to be concealed by so many people for their entire lives."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Let's remember it is totally logical to find Madeleine's DNA in the home, but absolutely not in a car rented more than twenty days after her disappearance."...Tony Bennett: "The question is: exactly what is it about Madeleine's disappearance that caused such a massive level of government activity, including MI5 and secret service type groups like Control Risks Group, to become involved, and so quickly and in such large numbers? Was it to help find a missing child? Or to locate an abductor?...Martin Grime: "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration."...Dr Vernon Coleman: "Would you hire the McCanns as babysitters?"...Gonçalo Amaral: "there were gestures and words indicating the existence of a child molester within that group of people"...Jose Barra da Costa, PJ: "There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of..."...Justine McGuiness: "We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to..."...C443 J.N. HUGHES: Background Information- Gerald McCANN - A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system....Dr Katherina Gaspar: "I remember Dave telling Gerry something like “she”, referring to Madeleine, “would do this”.. While he mentioned the word 'this', David was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple. I remember being shocked by that."...Sofia Leal: “My husband and I have never abandoned our daughters, or allowed paedophiles in our circle of friends. I am shocked that a couple who affirm to be religious is seeking out to destroy our family”...Gerry McCann: "There's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death"...

....................................................Why do the McCanns tell blatant lies and change their stories then threaten to sue those who question them? * Why did Gerry McCann say in his original statement that he used the front door with a key, then changed it in his second statement to the patio door which was unlocked? * Why did the McCanns transport rotting meat and dirty nappies to the tip in their car when there were bins nearby? * Why did the dogs only signal at the McCanns apartment, clothes and car? * Why didn't Kate have the twins checked if she thought they'd been sedated by the abductor? * Why did the McCanns tell the media the PJ had offered them a deal when the PJ can't offer deals? * Why were old photographs of Maddie released first when Kate had the latest photo on her camara? * Why was the Fund named after a police manual? * Why did Kate say the window had been jemmied when it hadn't? * Why were the only fingerprints on the window found to be Kates? * Why did the McCanns make excuses for the cadaver scent and bodily fluids found in their hire car? * Just what was Robert Murat's role in the Madeleine McCann disappearance? * John McCann gave up his job to be a director of the Fund - how did he know Maddie wouldn't be found that day? * Why did Clarence Mitchell give up a well paid job and pension to take up a PR job that might only last a few days? * Just how many false names are the McCanns allowing on their petition? * Who torched Sergei Malinka's car? * Who killed Goncalo Amaral's dog? * Why did our government try to make the McCanns Fund into a charity? * What did Maddie's disappearance have to do with The Chancellor, Gordon Brown? * Why did the McCanns claim to be devout catholics when Kate's mother said they weren't? * Why did the McCanns allow the sabotage of the crime scene? * Why did the McCanns refuse to co-operate with the investigation? * Why did Kate refuse to answer 48 questions that may have helped find Maddie? * Why did the McCanns refuse to take part in an official police reconstruction but then made a tv documentary? * Will other children, like Shannon Matthews, be at risk of copycat faked abductions? *
.......................................Gerry McCann: "Find the body and prove we killed her"....David Payne: "We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business"...David Payne: “We know they didn’t do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."...Clarence Mitchell: "There is a wholly innocent explanation for any material the police may or may not have found"...Clarence Mitchell: "Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine`s death"...Clarence Mitchell: "What goes on the internet has not been sanctioned by Kate and Gerry."...Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa: "There is one piece of stand alone evidence."...Michael Wright: "I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins’ nappies. I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill."...Eileen McCann: "If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to"...Clarence Mitchell: “Anybody who has given money to help find Madeleine need have no fear that their money is being spent on lawyers fees or anything like that.”...Clarence Mitchell: "Just put money into an envelope and send it to Kate and Gerry McCann, Rothley, it'll get there"........Kate McCann: "Rome is preparing itself for our visit."...Susan Healy: "Kate said last night 'If I weighed another two stone, had a bigger bosom and looked more maternal, people would be more sympathetic."...Kate McCann: "Be brave, sweetheart."...Martin Brunt: "We all thought they were a chavvy family from some estate in Essex who weren't looking after their children properly but the fact that these were two middle-aged, middle-income or, even high-income professionals, doctors, it did rather take on a different hue."...Carlos Anjos: "If that situation had been of an abduction, it would have been terrible for the child. Because if that child were to be sold, or something else... She was as good as... it was her death sentence. That situation, that day, advertising that photo, was simply the death sentence of that child."...Gerry McCann: "The iris is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”...Clarence Mitchell: "If she's dead then she's dead, but not by their hand"...Kate McCann: "My struggle to control 'very difficult' Madeleine"...Question 41 to Kate McCann: "Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?"...Maddie McCann: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"...Kate McCann: "...that means that, you know, she must have fallen back asleep very quickly, errm... and then she moved on… you know, she moved on."...Kate McCann: "I don't want to dwell on it too much."...Kate McCann:"When lunchtime came, Gerry and I were in the middle of another meeting when we discovered there was no one around to collect Sean and Amelie. We had to interrupt proceedings and go to the Toddler Club ourselves"...Maria Bandeirinha: “Kate passed by my door, laughing her head off, with a friend, days after her daughter disappeared. What mother has a child in an unknown location and feels like laughing?"...Kate McCann: "Well, it was our holiday too"....Kate McCann: "It's funny, we were having such a good time. We were with our friends and their kids. I think cos there was a group of us, you're just into each other, d'you know what I mean"...Gerry McCann: "If Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment – why would that be our fault?"...Kate McCann: "It was so dark...it was dark, erm I've never had such a long night it was dark and you're just praying for the light you know to come up to get out there..."...Rachael Oldfield: "I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”...Kate McCann: "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."...Kate McCann: "I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain"...Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."...Kate McCann's diary: "Gerry put on another great performance"...Daily Express reporter: "She and husband Gerry burst into laughter as they promoted her book about their lost daughter Madeleine."....Gerry McCann: "Ask the dogs, Sandra."...Gerry McCann: "It wasn't as bad as the night we found her..."...Gerry McCann: "Nothing of value was taken the night Madeleine disappeared"....Gerry McCann to Ed Smart: "Ed, I would not be surprised if they, you know, don't plant evidence in the car, you know, to have them think that there's DNA in this car that I rented after the fact is just outrageous, and what could they possibly have?"....Dave Edgar: "Maddie is in a secret lair in a lawless village in PDL"...Donal MacIntyre: Maddie's abductor cleaned the apartment, after a rehearsal, leaving no DNA...Gerry McCann: "My plan was to stay quiet and not answer."...John McCann: "It's not bad for a bunch of amateurs"...Moita Flores: "I have no doubts that the child died. Who knows, one day a fishing net will pick up a bag with a child's bones in it."...PJ Case Files: "Between 15h00 on August 4th 2007 and 06h30 on August 5th 2007, the following samples were recovered in the living room of apartment 5A at the OCEAN CLUB where a murder probably took place.".....Gonçalo Amaral: "The priests also know very well what happened that night.”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I receive a phone call from Sofia, who insists on my going home: our Shitzu dog is dead. She found it that morning, lifeless on the ground, with a head injury."...Dr Paulo Sargento: "Gonçalo Amaral is the visible target the McCanns want to take down"....Portuguese AG, Fernando Pinto Monteiro: "One way or another the McCanns were responsible for their child's death."...Gonçalo Amaral: “There are things that I haven’t said yet”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I am not shutting up"...........
Sadly I don't think the resolution on my PC screen is really up to fine detail analysis of these photos.

by tuom 07.05.12 19:01

[quote="FH"]My first long post was simply the conclusions I came to after trawling through the whole thread. I do find it is good to discuss things with other people as it makes me re-evaluate my theories as to what happened.

As the child of a doctor, the sister of a nurse and a pharmacist and the aunt of a doctor the phrase "cobbler's bairns are always the worst shod" comes to my mind. Not that any of my relatives are in any way abusive or neglectful with their children, it's just that they see so many people, with such serious problems, they tend to be quite laid back with their own children. They have much less fear about administering medication too. I'm sure the odd dose of phenergan (anti histamine causes drowsiness) has found it's way into a child that was off colour and not sleeping and that's not exclusive to Dr's, I have friends who have done this.
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FH I agree with you here , I am not a doctor but a Mother of a child who suffered with cronic colic so Phenergan and I were great friends for a number of years ! some may be alarmed at that but you have to go through it to believe it , I knew it was bad when my Mother called one day and found me trying to console a crying baby over my shoulder while at the same time pushing an empty pram [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by tuom 07.05.12 19:09

[quote="FH"]It's funny how she looks so baggy eyed in a lot of photos. I can't make up my mind if she looks unwell or just tired. Perhaps she wasn't well a lot of the time, small children can pick up a lot of bugs. Perhaps a poor immune system, or allergies? Is she baggy eyed at a particular time of year - pollen perhaps? Perhaps she's baggy eyed most of the time, but they've been photoshopped in close ups. Might as well remove the bags while you add the coloboma?
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As a PS to my last post re colic, my daughter also had "bags" under her eyes for the first few years , and she always looked unwell , I have actually looked at some of her early pictures this weekend and TBH she looks dreadful even as a baby ( she is beautiful now 28 and very healthy)[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] her eyes always looked puffy and swollen and she never looked happy , just something to think about , as I am sure other Mothers would agree , it is very difficult to care for a baby with colic , in the first few months it is even hard to like them .

by **tigger** 07.05.12 19:17

Hi, I've never seen that enormous solid and colourful chunk of text before? Surely you did't type that all out yourself?

Re the make up photo - I haven't had a look at that yet. I'll let you know. It's possible it was taken in Burgau.
Re the Pictures taken on the same day - magnificent resolution, full screen lots of pixels.

Re your earlier point on hair colour: Gerry, his nephew, his brother all had carrot coloured hair. Not auburn, and as far as I know, the gene for that doesn't ever go brown or auburn, but grey, quite early usually. Which I actually find a very pleasant colour, especially for men. I remarked a few times on Gerry dying his hair, simply because of the psychological aspect.

by Guest 07.05.12 19:45

tigger wrote:Hi, I've never seen that enormous solid and colourful chunk of text before? Surely you did't type that all out yourself?

Re the make up photo - I haven't had a look at that yet. I'll let you know. It's possible it was taken in Burgau.
Re the Pictures taken on the same day - magnificent resolution, full screen lots of pixels.

Re your earlier point on hair colour: Gerry, his nephew, his brother all had carrot coloured hair. Not auburn, and as far as I know, the gene for that doesn't ever go brown or auburn, but grey, quite early usually. Which I actually find a very pleasant colour, especially for men. I remarked a few times on Gerry dying his hair, simply because of the psychological aspect.

They are all on the sticky thread at the top of this forum, they are from the scrolling banner.

by **Nina** 07.05.12 19:50

candyfloss wrote:
tigger wrote:Hi, I've never seen that enormous solid and colourful chunk of text before? Surely you did't type that all out yourself?

Re the make up photo - I haven't had a look at that yet. I'll let you know. It's possible it was taken in Burgau.
Re the Pictures taken on the same day - magnificent resolution, full screen lots of pixels.

Re your earlier point on hair colour: Gerry, his nephew, his brother all had carrot coloured hair. Not auburn, and as far as I know, the gene for that doesn't ever go brown or auburn, but grey, quite early usually. Which I actually find a very pleasant colour, especially for men. I remarked a few times on Gerry dying his hair, simply because of the psychological aspect.

They are all on the sticky thread at the top of this forum, they are from the scrolling banner.

And what very punchy one liners they are too. thumbsup

by **tigger** 07.05.12 20:06

Hi Candyfloss, I knew really, I just don't get why FH posted it here, especially in this thread.

by jd 07.05.12 22:44

I think that no DNA of the missing child was found in the whole area of PDL speaks volumes...Having to go to another country to get her DNA speaks volumes. I am not stupid and am not dictated by what the murdoch comics tell me, Good luck to anyone who believes the mccanns lies