Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

by Guest 28.04.18 1:20

Indeed it is but a collation of information out there in the public domain for years, I don't think she claims for it be research in any way other than finding the information and putting it together for film production. In that respect, I genuinely believe it to be outstanding.

As far as I see it, her intention is to wise up the general public as to the global irregularities of the case, rather than an in-depth analysis of every aspect of the case. You couldn't do that in 45 minutes.

I don't think this harms CMoMM in any way, it's not running contra to the detailed research, analysis and commentary covered by the forum over the months and years. The film is accurate in the basic information presented, it doesn't claim to be anything other than what it is. Indeed, it doesn't theorize about any aspect of the case, nor offer opinion but it does most certainly highlight many generalities discussed on CMoMM over the months and years. An act of solidarity whether intentional or not.

Already the film has attracted a great number of viewers since launch. People who haven't previously interested themselves in the case, or are unaware of the case detail might be encouraged by this film to look further. Google Madeleine McCann or any subject matter connected to the case - it invariably leads directly to CMoMM.

For that we can be proud but still appreciate the work of others. There is always scope to critically analyze any work put forward regarding this case but credit where credit is due, Part 1 of Sonia Poulton's documentary/film does not invite unreasonable criticism - there really is nothing to find fault with that I can identify.

by **Jill Havern** 28.04.18 9:00

Well said Verdi.

At the end of the day all any of us want is justice for little Maddie McCann - for the perpetrators, and their kling-ons, to be prosecuted for whatever happened to her on that fateful holiday.

And if that comes about because of our combined efforts in our Letter to the Portuguese Attorney-General, or by the dilligent work accomplished by others then the proper outcome is all that matters.

Either Madeleine died on 3rd May (which could leave the door open for any conclusion which won't necessarily bring about a prosecution);

or she died earlier (which severely implicates the parents and should bring about a prosecution) - only the PJ can establish that...if the UK establishment don't stand in their way again that is.

by Verity 28.04.18 9:19

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And so the fundraising begins.

Does she set up a fundraising page for all her other work, or just Maddie?

It's shameful, it really is, that Sonia is being compared to Snr Amaral. Sonia is doing her job, Amaral was destroyed for doing his. That's why people raised the funds for him! The injustice of it all.

by **Tony Bennett** 28.04.18 10:21

Verity wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And so the fundraising begins.

Does she set up a fundraising page for all her other work, or just Maddie?

It's shameful, it really is, that Sonia is being compared to Snr Amaral.

Sonia is doing her job, Amaral was destroyed for doing his. That's why people raised the funds for him! The injustice of it all

Fully agreed @ Verity. It is truly shameful. 'PeterMac' hasn't asked for funding. Nor Lizzy HideHo so far as I am aware. Nor any of the great researchers on here. But then let those who have praised this video of Sonia's support her financially if they wish to do so.

I am afraid @ Verdi that you are mistaken if you think either (a) that Sonia has merely given us a collection of hard facts or (b) that she is not working contrary to the agreed conclusions of CMOMM's investigations as set out on CMOMM's forum home page. It might be worth you taking a second look at some of the impressions she is giving within that video and also of the significant omissions she makes along the way.

For example...

...A video of 'The McCanns and the Police'...and no mention whatsoever of Mark Harrison, very senior intelligence officer from NPIS, recommending Martin Grime, one of the world's top dog handlers, and his findings in Praia da Luz??

Come on!

----------------

ETA: PATERNOSTORMER/Baskingsharky

It might be worth looking a little more closely at the identity of 'Paternostormer'/Baskingsharky, who is so keen to fund Sonia Poulton's videos.

A look at his Twitter account reveals the following:

Joined December 2017

First post on 4 January 2018

Most of his tweets are to:

The BunnyReturns (Benjamin Thompson)
AndyFish19 (Benjamin Thompson) and
McCann Case Tweets (Isabelle McFadden).

Many of his tweets contains swear words, rather like the tweets of TheBunnyReturns and AndyFish19.

So could this be somebody we already know far too well?

.

by polyenne 28.04.18 10:38

Perhaps we should wait for further episodes before suggesting elements have been left out

by **Tony Bennett** 28.04.18 10:44

polyenne wrote:Perhaps we should wait for further episodes before suggesting elements have been left out

How long must we wait?

We waited 4 years for this one!

by **Jill Havern** 28.04.18 10:55

I understand your point of view Tony about the omission of Martin Grime and Eddie and Keela and really hope Sonia covers that in another film.

The only thing that really raised my eyebrows was Colin Sutton saying about armchair sleuths, strong opinions, and that if you conclusively and forensically eliminate kate and Gerry McCann and their friends from any involvement then that squashes all that 'rumour mill'.

I was going to watch the film again today, but I'm going to be very busy working on Peter's new mega-chapter (which isn't rumour mill Colin!) and which has taken Peter an enormous amount of time and painstaking research. Hopefully it'll be online later today or tomorrow.

Get 'em Peter bow2

by polyenne 28.04.18 10:57

Tony
If the episodes open up debate and mouths, I can wait

by **Jill Havern** 28.04.18 10:59

Tony Bennett wrote:ETA: PATERNOSTORMER/Baskingsharky

It might be worth looking a little more closely at the identity of 'Paternostormer'/Baskingsharky, who is so keen to fund Sonia Poulton's videos.

A look at his Twitter account reveals the following:

Joined December 2017

First post on 4 January 2018

Most of his tweets are to:

The BunnyReturns (Benjamin Thompson)
AndyFish19 (Benjamin Thompson) and
McCann Case Tweets (Isabelle McFadden).

Many of his tweets contains swear words, rather like the tweets of TheBunnyReturns and AndyFish19.

So could this be somebody we already know far too well?

.

by Phoebe 28.04.18 11:34

I, for one, will quite happily contribute to the cost of ANY documentary, made by ANY journalist, which reiterates, in the public domain the following facts - The McCanns have not been cleared by the P.J. of involvement in their daughter's disappearance (despite repeated media claims to the contrary); the Tapas 9's account of that night were contradictory, and the P.J. have every reason to regard them with suspicion; the Tapas 9 have refused to assist the police by cooperating with a reconstruction; there was immediate and on-going high level political intervention in the case which impacted the Portuguese investigation; there was no evidence whatsoever of either break-in or abduction; the BBC lied when it said Martin Smith had recanted his belief that it was Gerry he had seen. The British police have thus far ignored, and continue to ignore, these indisputable facts.

Before venturing into the realms of what alternative explanations there might be to explain Madeleine's disappearance, these facts must be known and accepted. This film can raise awareness among the wider, misinformed public, therefore, I fully support it. I'm not aware that S.P. has, herself, asked for donations but I would happily help to fund anyone who seeks to get the facts contained in this film out there! Jill made a very important point earlier - the P.J. have been given the information regarding suspicions around something happening earlier than May 3rd. It is up to Portugal to decide what to do with that.

by **Jill Havern** 28.04.18 11:53

Yes, it is Sonia's website so I've been told. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by kaz 28.04.18 12:42

Sonia's effort was factually accurate apart from her stating that Smithman was seen running with a child. Am I mistaken? This seems to me a pertinent mistake to make. Maybe I misheard.

by Mark Willis 28.04.18 13:05

kaz wrote:Sonia's effort was factually accurate apart from her stating that Smithman was seen running with a child. Am I mistaken? This seems to me a pertinent mistake to make. Maybe I misheard.

You did not mishear. That is what she said, "running".

by Guest 28.04.18 13:33

Verity wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And so the fundraising begins.

Does she set up a fundraising page for all her other work, or just Maddie?

It's shameful, it really is, that Sonia is being compared to Snr Amaral. Sonia is doing her job, Amaral was destroyed for doing his. That's why people raised the funds for him! The injustice of it all.

Thankfully, any outside fund raising venture doesn't concern CMoMM.

At the finish of Sonia Poulton's film reference is made to her new website..

To support more of my work become my patron on Patreon.

If folk wish to support Sonia Poulton (or anyone else out with the begging bowl) financially or otherwise, that's their choice alone.

Personally, I wouldn't but I don't agree with this modern trend for crowd funding anyway.

Let's just concentrate on the merits of the film content, rather than the person behind it.

grouphug

by Guest 28.04.18 13:41

Tony Bennett wrote:It might be worth looking a little more closely at the identity of 'Paternostormer'/Baskingsharky, who is so keen to fund Sonia Poulton's videos.

Ben Thompson is credited at the end of the video as co-researcher. Hardly surprising he strongly supports Sonia Poulton, rightly or wrongly.

It's hard to keep up with all the aliases used by different cybernaughties - I've given up trying. Unless of course they creep into this forum for the wrong reasons.

As to my opinion of Sonia Poulton's film - I speak as I find. At present it's the talk of the day, tomorrow is another day. It will only remain the topic of conversation all the time folk converse about it.

I wonder what PeterMac's got in store for the morrow celebrate

.

by Guest 28.04.18 14:07

Mark Willis wrote:
kaz wrote:Sonia's effort was factually accurate apart from her stating that Smithman was seen running with a child. Am I mistaken? This seems to me a pertinent mistake to make. Maybe I misheard.
You did not mishear. That is what she said, "running".

Methinks the producer was running away with herself big grin

. She did indeed say the 'stranger in the night' (cue for a song) was running - a basic but crass error.

No doubt someone has whisper

so she can edit the video eyebrows

.

by Mark Willis 28.04.18 14:14

Verdi wrote:
Mark Willis wrote:
kaz wrote:Sonia's effort was factually accurate apart from her stating that Smithman was seen running with a child. Am I mistaken? This seems to me a pertinent mistake to make. Maybe I misheard.
You did not mishear. That is what she said, "running".
Methinks the producer was running away with herself . She did indeed say the 'stranger in the night' (cue for a song) was running - a basic but crass error.

No doubt someone has so she can edit the video .

I prefer Stranglers in the night. Maybe "Golden Brown" or "Grip" or "Peaches" lol violin

Jury's out, here. And I only sent them for a sausage roll! facepalm

by Phoebe 28.04.18 21:48

If one wishes to be pedantic about it, Sonia P. probably should have said Smithman was " moving swiftly", based on the testimonies of Aoife Smith -

"The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run"

and Peter Smith who describes Smithman walking -

" with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill"

It appears that Smithman certainly struck them as moving at more than casual strolling speed.

by **Tony Bennett** 28.04.18 23:24

Tony Bennett wrote:
polyenne wrote:Perhaps we should wait for further episodes before suggesting elements have been left out

How long must we wait?

We waited 4 years for this one!

As I feared, @ polyenne, we may all have a very long wait.

You're right, there are apparently going to be further episodes of Sonia's films, indeed Jill says she was told there would be 10 in all.

There have been more than a few people today on Twitter or elsewhere saying: "Can't wait for the next one".

One person in fact was so bold as to ask the question: 'When will we see it?', and got this answer, from the horse's mouth:

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Goodness only knows when the 10th one will come out.

I assume from Sonia's answer that in fact 'Part 2' has not even been done, or even planned, yet - because only if the money comes in is there any prospect at all of ever seeing Part 2, let alone Parts 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10.

Look, if anyone on CMOMM thinks Sonia's film really did advance the cause of justice for Madeleine, and wants to make sure we see Part 2 as soon as possible, please donate AS MUCH as you can AS SOON as you can. An initial donation of, say £500, from all of her supporters, would at least be a start.

There are some unkind people on Twitter beginning to suggest that this is in fact some kind of scam.

Of course it's not.

by Boba Fett 29.04.18 11:28

I thought it was a decent watch and anything that helps spread the message to those who are less informed must be a good thing, right?

Some of the criticism is harsh. I don't get the arguments that it doesn't bring anything new to the table or doesn't go into as much depth as Richard Hall's documentaries. I don't think it seeks to do either. Richard's documentaries go into tremendous detail about factual and evidential matters. Poulton's is more of a snapshot in respect of the protection the McCanns receive from the establishment/police. Both approaches have their merit and deliver a strong message.

The only way someone will truly progress this case is if Madeleine is found alive (don't laugh), a corpse is produced or someone within the McCann camp breaks protocol and spills the beans with new evidence (I'm looking at you, Kate).

by kaz 29.04.18 11:35

Phoebe wrote:If one wishes to be pedantic about it, Sonia P. probably should have said Smithman was " moving swiftly", based on the testimonies of Aoife Smith -

"The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run"

and Peter Smith who describes Smithman walking -

" with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill"

It appears that Smithman certainly struck them as moving at more than casual strolling speed.

I certainly don't think it's being 'pedantic' to point out that Sonia got this wrong. 'A fairly quick step' and 'Between a fast walk and a run' is NOT running. In this particular scenario the choice of 'running' rather than 'brisk walking' is leading the reader in a particular direction of thought. If this video was solely about presenting facts , which it was since there was no expansion on those facts, the least she could do was get those facts correct. If one was suspicious, one might wonder why she got this particular fact downright wrong.

by Verity 29.04.18 12:02

Would a child, being carried in the same way as Gerry was carrying Sean down the plane steps, be able to stay asleep if Smithman was running and her face was bouncing up and down off his shoulder?

by Boba Fett 29.04.18 12:07

The Smiths have produced a new e-fit.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Verity 29.04.18 12:10

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Was it based on Jez Wilkins @Boba Fett ?

by **Cammerigal** 29.04.18 12:26

I gave this 24 hours to gather thoughts and see the dust settle. I want to be optimistic about this series and do see it puts another question mark against the McCanns To the great British public, but I am concerned about the significant omission of THE DOGS. The irrefutable, un opinionated and independent evidence of a death in the apartment and cadaver odour on clothes and the Megan hire car. Why’s no mention of the dog detection Sonia?
After 11 years of propaganda, miss direction and manipulation, I am questioning the purpose and agenda of Sonia’s series, especially as it was stalled for 18months due to ‘legal concerns’. We saw off Malinka and his crowd funded book before Xmas. Sarah Doherty has faded back to Irish obscurity.
Is this another one hit wonder? A miss direction of the audience to look there and not here?
Seeking Patreon crowd funding for a piece of investigative journalism, with many easy answers available (just read Petermacc book, watch Richarddhall videos) has set an alarm bell ringing.
I would be very glad to be proved wrong Sonia.

by kaz 29.04.18 12:26

Verity wrote:Would a child, being carried in the same way as Gerry was carrying Sean down the plane steps, be able to stay asleep if Smithman was running and her face was bouncing up and down off his shoulder?

I think if Sonia wanted to choose the term 'running' , she should have added the rider, '' but not so fast that the Smiths weren't able to give a fairly good description of him '' and 'not so fast' that Mrs Smith tried to engage him in conversation.

by Bayonne 29.04.18 12:32

The fundraiser page: https://www.patreon.com/soniapoulton

Here, Sonia says the next film she will release will be in June:

"Each month, patrons can vote - from a selection - which film they want me to make next. However, the next film has already commenced because of the timing issues of launching this platform. That documentary will be out in early June.

The film looks at the tragedy of Grenfell Tower where a blaze took hold, in June 2017, in London. I have gathered a great deal of first-hand information and footage and want to share that with you. It is a story of social failure, corporate greed, national corruption and needless death. And it must be told.

The video following 'Grenfell Tower - One Year On' will be at the end of July and every video from that point onwards will be released at the end of the month so we can start to regulate our content. "

Skip over to : http://www.theuntoldstoryofmadeleinemccann.com/

and I see.... "
This film is Part 1. Part 2 will follow on the conclusion of investigations in Portugal and London.

There is material that simply cannot be used while live police investigations are in progress."

Looks like part two could take a while in coming..... or does Sonia know something we don't?

by Verity 29.04.18 12:52

If she did she wouldn't have left out something so fundamentally important as the dogs, which is already in the public domain. A film about the police involvement which leaves out Eddie and Keela.

Sonia is using the 'conclusion of the investigations' (which could go on and on and on for many more years) as a reason for not producing Part 2 imo.

But in the meanwhile though you're kindly invited to contribute to her fund so she can produce a film of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, something for which she'd no doubt be paid for by another source anyway.

Win, win!

Why would a journalist/broadcaster need to be crowdfunded?

by Boba Fett 29.04.18 12:57

Interesting that Poulton is accused of not presenting anything "new" and is simultaneously criticised for not mentioning the sniffer dogs (old news).

Tough crowd.

by kaz 29.04.18 13:18

Boba Fett wrote:Interesting that Poulton is accused of not presenting anything "new" and is simultaneously criticised for not mentioning the sniffer dogs (old news).

Tough crowd.

Obviously 'The Dogs' do not, in her opinion, come under the umbrella of , ''McCanns and the Police.'' We shall have to subscribe to her version of 'Pay and View' to get any further.