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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Mm11

Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Mm11

Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Regist10

Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Jill Havern 10.11.17 11:57

Courtesy of HiDeHo

Fiona Payne
 I think every lunch, bar the Thursday, we had people in the apartment having lunch. Erm, and my mum generally was the sandwich maker, that was a bit of a joke for the week, she’d took it upon herself to do loads of shopping, erm, while we were sort of sailing and stuff, she, she’d go to the Supermarket and get loads of, loads of provisions in and she’d be making piles of baguettes and, erm, yeah, and everyone would generally descend on ours and demolish the lot. Erm, and, yeah, we just all mucked in to cook for the kids, we generally tried to give them a hot, a hot lunch and, you know, people would just donate whatever was in their apartment”.

Reply
“I mean, I think every night we saw all of each other, bar the Thursday, again, that was a different night”.


1485
“It was different”.


Reply
“In that Kate wasn’t there with, with the three kids, because we’d all done something different in the early evening, so we were a bit later coming back to the Tapas Bar”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“And, you know, Madeleine and Sean and Amelie were just absolutely knackered, so, you know, so that was different, but we’d, as I say, the day had gone differently, so”.



 
Reply
“Because I’ve got no idea who went first and, to be completely honest, I didn’t at the time. Erm, but I’d say on, on the first few nights it all seemed, erm, fairly well spaced, you know, like people going together, that was just a feeling, a general feeling that I’m giving you. Erm, whereas, again, that differed on the Thursday night, in that, it seemed more, erm, out of, people were more out of synch. But I think that’s because we all arrived at different times, whereas, generally, we were a bit more on time at the beginning of the week”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“Erm, so, you know, people were going, you know, more sort of nine o’clock, then it’d be half nine and, you know, I remember people clock watching, erm, doing that. I didn’t have any idea of time, erm, I wasn’t wearing a watch, I didn’t have a mobile and I wasn’t going up to check our children”.



 
1485
“Would you say that the time that you went down on Sunday is generally the same time that you went down every night?”


Reply
“Erm, I was a bit later on the Thursday than normal because I wanted to go for a run. Erm, so, yeah, that was more I think sort of ten to, five to nine, it was, we were late that, that night”.




 
On the Monday night, erm, I think so, yeah. I mean, I think, usually, by the time we got there, there were at least two other couples, you know, occasionally we might have been the third couple, erm, rather than the last to arrive, but, yeah, and nobody was ever late, I mean, we all generally got to the table within twenty minutes of each other”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“Erm, so there was never anything really outstanding about the previous nights”.

01.28.01
1485
“And would you pass anybody on the way to the Tapas?”


Reply
“Erm, tut, no, erm, not that I’d”.


1485
“Any of the group perhaps going to do their checks or?”


Reply
“No, because generally, as I say, we, the early part of the week, we were generally all within the same sort of time bracket, so, yeah, we didn’t, on previous nights, see anybody coming back. Erm, Thursday night was different, we did, we saw Matt, but on previous nights, no, generally we’d go down, go straight to the table. Erm, you know, when we arrived at the Tapas there were usually some other couples eating and they would normally be almost sort of halfway through getting to the end of their meal by the time we were starting, we tended to be seemingly later than most, erm, having our meals. Erm, but in terms of me passing people on the way down, again, it seemed, it always seemed very quiet and nobody about when we were going down”.





But it had been so kind of cool in the afternoons it, erm, hadn’t been much fun. So I don’t want to commit to the fact that we went there, I think Thursday may well have been”.


1485
“The first time?”


Reply
“We definitely went on the Thursday and I think that might have been the first time we actually did that as a group, minus Kate and Gerry”.






 
Reply
“We definitely went on the Thursday and I think that might have been the first time we actually did that as a group, minus Kate and Gerry”.


1485
“Right”.


Reply
“Erm, and I think why I’m thinking that is, I know Kate and Gerry did go to the beach, I think they tried to have lunch on the beach with the kids on one of the previous days and we didn’t, you know, and that’s maybe why I’m getting confused”.


1485
“Are you able to say what day that was that you think?”


Reply
“Again, I couldn’t tell you. We didn’t really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didn’t like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didn’t do it again. Erm, tut, yeah, so, you know, I am backtracking, but I think Thursday was the first day that we went down after the sleep time”.

 




she picked up Madeleine and I picked up Scarlet and then we walked back together and that was the only day we ever did, ever did that


 
and then when we got back they, you know, Kate too Madeleine to their apartment for lunch and, erm, I went up to ours for lunch. And that day, erm, I think was the only day that no-one else came for lunch, erm, tut, I think that was just me, Dave and my mum, and the others, Rachael and Matt, I think, had their lunch with Russ and Jane, erm, so those two families were together, Kate and Gerry on their own and us on our own.
 


We put our kids to bed slightly earlier that day, thinking, because it was a nicer day, that we’ll try and get down to the beach and, you know, have a bit of a afternoon at the beach with them. So that day was slightly different”.
 


“Erm, as I say, I would have seen them every high tea, I mean, the Thursday, that was a different day, in that, I’d only seen Madeleine when, as I say, when I walked with Kate, erm, and we picked Madeleine and Scarlet up. But, yeah, bar that, we saw the children ever, every evening for high tea and afterwards for the sort of playtime. Erm, but during the day I tended not to see, not to see them”.

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Verdi 10.11.17 12:31

More importantly - so was Tuesday different!

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Post by Liz Eagles 10.11.17 13:18

Verdi wrote:More importantly - so was Tuesday different!
The word I find strange in the campaign is 'routine'. A seven day holiday apparently has to have an embedded (sorry for the pun) routine.
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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by HiDeHo 10.11.17 14:26

Verdi wrote:More importantly - so was Tuesday different!

Funny you should say that Verdi :)


Title: Was there something ''different' about Tuesday May 1st?



(Date Posted:06/10/2010 9:12 AM)

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Tuesday-May-1st/Was-there-something-different-about-Tuesday-May-1st-1-802485.html



Aimoo are having some technical issues, if you cant reach the forum I have copied it to this spoiler...



Did something happen TUESDAY?:
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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Verdi 10.11.17 15:01

aquila wrote:
Verdi wrote:More importantly - so was Tuesday different!
The word I find strange in the campaign is 'routine'. A seven day holiday apparently has to have an embedded (sorry for the pun) routine.
Couldn't agree more - it's occured to me many a time over the years.

A weeks holiday with children.  You meet up with other happy campers for new arrivals talk, it takes a while to the explore the locality, find your feet, look at the eateies and bars.  A walk to the beach, play with the kids at the playground, suss out the leisure facilities available, put your name down for sports activities, book the kids in the childcare facillities, find the local supermarket and touristy joints.  Take a city tour to see what's on offer.

That's two days accounted for.

Apart from getting out of bed in the morning and getting back at night - hardly routine!

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Liz Eagles 10.11.17 16:15

Verdi wrote:
aquila wrote:
Verdi wrote:More importantly - so was Tuesday different!
The word I find strange in the campaign is 'routine'. A seven day holiday apparently has to have an embedded (sorry for the pun) routine.
Couldn't agree more - it's occured to me many a time over the years.

A weeks holiday with children.  You meet up with other happy campers for new arrivals talk, it takes a while to the explore the locality, find your feet, look at the eateies and bars.  A walk to the beach, play with the kids at the playground, suss out the leisure facilities available, put your name down for sports activities, book the kids in the childcare facillities, find the local supermarket and touristy joints.  Take a city tour to see what's on offer.

That's two days accounted for.

Apart from getting out of bed in the morning and getting back at night - hardly routine!
Why is so much emphasis placed upon bath and bedtime, milk and biscuits, bedtime stories, cuddles, songs and tiredness?

Editing to add: to offer milk and biscuits would take more than one trip to a local supermarket.
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Post by Keitei 10.11.17 18:37

aquila wrote:Why is so much emphasis placed upon bath and bedtime, milk and biscuits, bedtime stories, cuddles, songs and tiredness?

To show what good, attentive & caring parents they are or it never happened the way the tale was told = GUILT?

Tiredness to show what a full, happy day the children had in the creche. thumbsup

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Liz Eagles 10.11.17 18:49

Keitei wrote:
aquila wrote:Why is so much emphasis placed upon bath and bedtime, milk and biscuits, bedtime stories, cuddles, songs and tiredness?

To show what good, attentive & caring parents they are or it never happened the way the tale was told = GUILT?

Tiredness to show what a full, happy day the children had in the creche. thumbsup
These good, attentive & caring parents must have made several trips to the local supermarket to buy milk when their children ate cereal, drank milk each evening and didn't go for breakfast at the Millenium.
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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Jill Havern 10.11.17 19:34

Article by the Madeleine McCann Research Group, 10 November 2017

This is a brief response to HideHo’s article about Thursday (and Tuesday).

Reference should be made to MMRG’s article about what really happened to Madeleine, here:
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14249-what-really-happened-to-madeleine-mccann-was-she-killed-on-sunday-29-april?highlight=sunday

As HideHo herself has pointed, the one – the only one – truly independent confirmation that Madeleine was alive that week is the statement of a cleaner, Fatima Maria Serafim da Silva Espada.


She testified in writing as follows: .

She states that [she saw all five members of the McCann family] on Sunday, 29th April, just before she finished her morning work shift (13.30) as she had the afternoon off that day. At about 13.15 she went to help her mother, who was cleaning apartment I of the same block (5) situated on the first floor. She clearly remembers seeing [Madeleine] accompanied by her siblings and mother leave their apartment (5A) and walk to the stairs leading to the floor above. She was very close to them, at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread”.

She gave additional details about what Madeleine was wearing that serve to verify that she distinctly saw Madeleine.

It is MMRG’s case that there is no independent evidence that Madeleine was seen after that time, although we do suggest as a strong possibility that the ‘Make-Up Photo’ may have been taken that afternoon.

We have three photos of Madeleine on Saturday 28 April, playing in the Ocean Club playground. We agree with the evidence that the ‘Last Photo’ by the pool was taken on Sunday lunchtime, probably within no more than an hour or so of Fatima da Silva Espada’s sighting.

The only other photo of Madeleine claimed to have been taken that week is the ‘Tennis Balls Photo’. But there are multiple problems in accepting that as a genuine photo from the holiday. Two different people say they took it. On two different days. Besides that, an excellent article by ‘PeterMac’ (LINK) has revealed that Kate McCann’s account of how that photo came to be taken wholly lacks credibility.

Consistent with Madeleine having died on Sunday are the following lines of evidence:

A The complete absence of any of Madeleine’s DNA in Praia da Luz                               
B The absence of any genuine photographs of Madeleine taken after lunchtime on Sunday 29 April
C The absence of any undisputed confirmed sightings of Madeleine after Sunday 29 April   
D Multiple contradictions and inconsistencies in the accounts of the McCanns and their friends about  the events of that week from Monday onwards
E The unconvincing and vague evidence given by creche nanny Catriona Baker about what Madeleine was actually doing in the crèche all week
F Evidence that the children of the McCanns and their friends were cared for, all in one room, from Sunday night onwards
G And clear evidence that the McCanns’ pattern of behaviour changed after Sunday in the following ways:

ON SUNDAY NIGHT

Making a sudden, urgent request to book the Tapas restaurant each night, giving a wholly unconvincing reason for doing so (Was this so they could have a quiet place to discuss and plan their audacious abduction hoax?)


FROM MONDAY MORNING

1 Taking breakfast every day in their own apartment and not with their friends in the restaurant
2 Similarly, taking lunch every day in their own apartment and not with their friends in the restaurant
3 Never being seen out together with the twins from Monday onwards
4 The McCanns using different doors when entering and leaving their apartment.
------------------------
If this analysis is broadly correct, then of all the days we need to be looking at, it is surely what happened on the SUNDAY.
After then, we cannot rely on ANYTHING the McCanns and their friends say about the timelines, or anything else. Each day that week was surely taken up with delivering the twins to the creche, and plotting amongst themselves, and probably with others, on how to deceive the entire world a few days later.

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Verdi 10.11.17 20:32

Good summation!  

To reduce it ever further - there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that Madeleine was seen alive and well after the family's arrival at the Ocean Club on Saturday 28th April 2007 with the exception of the playground and swimming pool photographs.

The cleaner's daughters statement is tenuous, although believable, she does say ..

"She had the opportunity to observe the photos of Madeleine that were being circulated everywhere and has no hesitation in confirming that she saw the child before her disappearance in the company of her siblings and mother and father, although in the latter case she only observed him from a distance."

Bearing in mind the photographs being circulated were of a younger Madeleine, she couldn't possibly have been able to say with any degree of certainty that it was Madeleine she saw.  Nor can it be said without ambiguity that the child she saw was wearing a skirt and ..

"....the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground".

The new holiday clothes described by Kate McCann could I guess be vaguely described as a skirt but would Madeleine have been wearing flashy tennis shoes with her new posh frock?  Kate McCann makes no reference to the kids having this type of footwear.

Sunday summary in it's entirety is for sure the key element to be scrutinized.

ETA: The Tapas booking, apart from being a private conclave, I believe was designed to give the theoretical abductor the opportunity to abduct. Responsible parents do not leave their very young children alone night after night in a strange place.

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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Hobs 11.11.17 21:39

aquila wrote:
Why is so much emphasis placed upon bath and bedtime, milk and biscuits, bedtime stories, cuddles, songs and tiredness?

Editing to add: to offer milk and biscuits would take more than one trip to a local supermarket.

They have a need to portray themselves as good parents, a need to portray the evening as normal with everyone alive and accounted for.
When someone has the need to portray themselves in a good light they have a reason to.
When someone has a need to portray the idyllic family at bedtime they have a reason to.

They have to set up their alibi,

See what good and loving parents we are
See all the children were alive and well that night
The timing and who did what that night is sensitive to the mccanns.
Bathing is sensitive to the mccanns.
The position of the door is sensitive to the mccanns
The lights being on and off is sensitive to the mccanns.

Those three items can be indicative of sexual activity taking place and it would require further and deeper investigation as to why lights doors and bathing are sensitive enough for the mccanns to include it in their statements.

Rather than stating the door was left slightly ajar, kate goes into detail about the position of the door being different to how they left it, despite both gerry and oldfiel both claiming to have done physical checks which, i would presume meant the door would have been opened and closed again at least one (gerry)

Kate then blathers on about lights whether to turn them on or off, why?
if , as claimed, she couldn't make out Maddie although it was light enough for the other two to have seen her (well gerry at least), then turn a light on.

Did she go into the apartment with all the lights off?

We have still had no explanation as to why Maddie's alleged bed was left perfectly made and looked unslept in whilst the bed under the window had clearly been slept in and, i would have assumed, claimed to have been the bed Maddie slept in.
Since it had clearly been used, what activity i wonder had taken place in that bed that day since the bed would have presumably been made up that morning?

Does it relate to the male sample that had been found on the bed originally claimed to have been semen (and blamed on a small boy) before becoming saliva.

Was there sexual activity on that bed which relates to bathing, doors and lights being introduced i wonder?




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Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday) Empty Re: Thursday was different (and, more importantly, so was Tuesday)

Post by Verdi 11.11.17 23:37

Hobs wrote:Does it relate to the male sample that had been found on the bed originally claimed to have been semen (and blamed on a small boy) before becoming saliva.
Back to the UK's Forensic Science Service !!!

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Post by Phoebe 12.11.17 0:29

@ Hobs excellent observation re. the lights. Poor Kate looks and looks at the bed and can't quite make out whether she is seeing Madeleine or the bedding yet Gerry can see so clearly (in the same lighting conditions) that it causes him to linger for a few minutes watching his sleeping daughter and admiring how beautiful she looked!
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