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Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

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Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by VeraWannabe on 01.07.15 20:12

In the Last Photo I've noticed that Gerry is wearing the SAME T-SHIRT that he is wearing on the airport bus and also the SAME SHORTS as he wore in the pics of the park photos on the day they arrived:

   

T-Shirt is the same shade and also has the lighter bands around his cuffs.

And in the pics of the children playing in the park on the same day they arrived (as the children are wearing the same clothes that they travelled in) Gerry is wearing the shorts in the "Last Photo":

   


I'm guessing that they arrived at the apartment and Gerry changed from his jeans to his shorts, and put on a fleece, and then went out to explore/play.

Whilst he is wearing this t-shirt and this pair of shorts...could they have taken the "Last Photo"? Or did he wear this same combo on another day too?

ADMIN: if this has been explored before, just point me to the link to read the discussion :)

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by whodunit on 01.07.15 20:45

I don't know a whole lot about this topic but just as a point of reference the shadows in the playground pic are long, suggesting mid to late afternoon. The poolside pic suggests the sun is directly overhead.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 01.07.15 21:01

There's this thread https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10497-another-look-at-the-last-photo?highlight=last+photo

Plus, if you put Last Photo in the search facility up the top then there's more threads to look at too.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.07.15 21:06

@whodunit wrote:I don't know a whole lot about this topic but just as a point of reference the shadows in the playground pic are long, suggesting mid to late afternoon. The poolside pic suggests the sun in directly overhead.
Not quite, I think you'll find the maximum angle of the sun that time of year is about 70 degrees - and the maximum time is reached at around 1.35pm Portuguese/British Summer Time.

That means there is a high probability that that photograph was taken close to 1.35pm, say in the hour between 1.05pm and 2.05pm.

The possibility that this photo was taken on the FIRST day is ruled out because the McCanns' plane on Saturday didn't reach Faro until the afternoon.

Those who argue that the 'Last Photo' was taken on the Sunday, or possibly Monday, use three key arguments:

1. Very sunny, warm conditions on Sunday and Monday but NOT the rest of the week

2. Gerry looks lightly tanned in the Last Photo and on the airport bus - but appears much more tanned by the time we reach Friday night when he is seen speaking to the press (maybe someone can turn up a still of that event?)

3. The absence of any other photos of Madeleine during the week - except for three taken in the playground (Day One) and the highly controversial 'tennis balls photo'

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by whodunit on 01.07.15 21:10

Basically, any photographic evidence of Maddie's continued existence after the first day of the holiday are iffy, at best?
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by PeterMac on 01.07.15 22:12

First FULL day , not the day of arrival Saturday 28th- when they got there late afternoon and endured the endless check in, lectures, visits,
general orientation and a fifteen mile drag to the Millennium restaurant without a buggy for dunner
So Very probably Sunday 29th
Weather is right,
clothes are right - children wearing their brand new Gap / Monsoon stuff.
By Monday it has begun to cloud over, Tuesday and Weds it rained, and the wind was sufficient for a major windsurfing completion
which is well documented both on written records and Video

Thursday was so cold they all complained about it _ except Gerry, obviously, who told the police it was HOT ! ! !


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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.07.15 22:36

@whodunit wrote:Basically, any photographic evidence of Maddie's continued existence after the first day of the holiday are iffy, at best?
I'm afraid that's about the size of it, yes, i.e. after Sunday, as PeterMac says

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Richard IV on 01.07.15 22:43

QUOTE \"PeterMac wrote:First FULL day , not the day of arrival Saturday 28th- when they got there late afternoon and endured the endless check in, lectures, visits,
general orientation and a fifteen mile drag to the Millennium restaurant without a buggy for dunner
So Very probably Sunday 29th
Weather is right,
clothes are right - children wearing their brand new Gap / Monsoon stuff.
By Monday it has begun to cloud over, Tuesday and Weds it rained, and the wind was sufficient for a major windsurfing completion
which is well documented both on written records and Video

Thursday was so cold they all complained about it _ except Gerry, obviously, who told the police it was HOT ! ! ! "
END QUOTE

Sunday 29th - MBM collected at 12.15 by GM
                    Twins collected at ? No morning creche record for Toddlers
                    MBM returned to creche at 14.45 by GM
                    Twins returned to creche at 14.35 by KM

So from 12.15 to 14.35 they were out and about and seen by Fatima da Silva Espada at 1.15. going up to the Payne`s apartment, MBM dressed in a skirt and tennis shoes with flashing lights. Twins had same shoes.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FATIMA_ESPADA.htm

At least this proves they weren`t in Sagres on the Sunday.
 
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.07.15 22:51

@Richard IV wrote:
At least this proves they [the McCanns] weren't in Sagres on the Sunday.  
They weren't in Sagres at any time that week.

Nuno Lourenco's claims of his child nearly being kidnapped in Sagres that week are a fairly obvious fabrication.

Media claims that surfaced on 11 and 12 May that the alleged kidnapper might have seen Madeleine in Sagres appear to have been generated by the McCanns' PR Team - they certainly made a powerful and persuasive story at the time. There was not a jot of truth in the claims.

All this and more is covered...

a) in the Wojcek Krokowski threads on the forum https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10602-was-wojcek-krokowski-sagres-man-with-a-camera-the-template-for-both-tannerman-and-smithman and

b) in Richard Hall's latest Madeleine film, The Phantoms:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL0-ePd3FCU


There is a poll on the Krokowski thread in which only 24 members have voted so far

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 10.07.15 22:03

I have a couple of questions relating to the Last Photo if I may:

1) If it was taken on 29th April 2007, why wasn't it released to the Press straight away after MM went missing?

2) Where is the photographic evidence of the McCann twins continued existence after the first day of the holiday?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Amy Dean on 11.07.15 9:05

I would like to know the answer to the first question too.

As for the second, while photos of the twins up until 3rd May are as rare as those of Madeleine, there are plenty after that date in PDL.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Richard IV on 11.07.15 11:13

@Nuala wrote:I have a couple of questions relating to the Last Photo if I may:

1) If it was taken on 29th April 2007, why wasn't it released to the Press straight away after MM went missing?

2) Where is the photographic evidence of the McCann twins continued existence after the first day of the holiday?

1) Agree with Amy Dean - I`m sure we`d all like to know why - any suggestions ?

2) Well they could hardly present lots of photos of the twins if they were showing none of MBM.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 11.07.15 14:09

@ Richard IV

1) Agree with Amy Dean - I`m sure we`d all like to know why - any suggestions ?

None at all.

It doesn't make sense to me that a photo taken on 29th Apr showing MM supposedly happy and well on 3rd May, the last photo taken before she was "abducted", wouldn't have been released straight away.

Instead it was three weeks before it was released. That doesn't make sense, so I wondered if anyone had any ideas?

2) Well they could hardly present lots of photos of the twins if they were showing none of MBM.

I'm afraid I disagree with you, with three days to plan an abduction that's exactly what I'd expect them to do, or at least have some.

A shot of GM playing at the beach with the twins for example, while MM was in the kids club, showing everything was normal up until the fateful 3rd May.

Instead there is a total blank, of any of the family. None of the famous Tapas dinners, none showing the McCanns happy and relaxed and enjoying themselves. That's what I'd expect with three days to plan an "abduction" if something had already happened to MM earlier in the week.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.15 15:03

@Nuala wrote:@ Richard IV

1) Agree with Amy Dean - I`m sure we`d all like to know why - any suggestions ?

None at all.

It doesn't make sense to me that a photo taken on 29th Apr showing MM supposedly happy and well on 3rd May, the last photo taken before she was "abducted", wouldn't have been released straight away.

Instead it was three weeks before it was released. That doesn't make sense, so I wondered if anyone had any ideas?
Ducks were not completely in a row to begin with.

I don't think anyone knew how to play the pictures initially.

It now seems they withheld everything on that particular camera except that one photo.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 11.07.15 16:56

The whole cameras/photos/Last photo stuff is all so confusing even with the aid of the PJ files. Below I'll point out what for me is one example. It could just be me being dumb though...

Truth of The Lie Chapter 11:

It's 10am. After dealing with everyday matters, I join the team of investigators responsible for the Madeleine case. The Leicestershire police are present at these meetings, as well as Jose Freitas. The latter, aged 46, is descended from Portuguese people who settled in Madeira and emigrated to the United Kingdom to find work and a better standard of living. Violent crime, abduction and illegal confinement are the speciality of this high-ranking Scotland Yard officer, who joined us eighteen days into the investigation - the English authorities consider that the presence of a man who knows Portugal and its culture could facilitate the investigation.

I take it that this means the chapter is describing events on/around/after 21st May.


We take stock of the different operations set up, then we examine the photos taken on the night of May 3rd.

 So looking through the pictures taken by the GNR officer on the 3rd May.


At this stage of the investigation, we have already requested the holiday photos from all of them. On the dining table, we notice a digital camera and we decide that we must acquire its contents.

- We are really going to need the photos. That would allow us to see exactly what happened during dinner, how they were seated round the table, what they drank, what they ate, how they were dressed, everything is important.

So already requested (received?) holiday photos from all. I don't even know if the other tapas members had cameras and what models they were....

Looking at the PJ files and GM and MW delivered two CD/DVDs of photos on ~8th May.  We don't know which images are from what camera(s) and the last photo isn't among them.

The last photo came to light on the 23/24th May.

I honestly don't know what to make of it all or where to start asking questions. The only thing that is clear about any camera is the the Olympus was the Foster families.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by lj on 11.07.15 17:09

@Nuala wrote:I have a couple of questions relating to the Last Photo if I may:

1) If it was taken on 29th April 2007, why wasn't it released to the Press straight away after MM went missing?

2) Where is the photographic evidence of the McCann twins continued existence after the first day of the holiday?

They might have realized they need proof of Madeleine being alive after that Sunday, but did not know yet how to alter the meta data, or did not have a computer to do that on.


Just theorizing.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 11.07.15 20:31

@ TheTruthWillOut

Thank you for that summary and info smilie

Looking at the PJ files and GM and MW delivered two CD/DVDs of photos on ~8th May.  We don't know which images are from what camera(s) and the last photo isn't among them.

I wouldn't expect it to be, and I think we can fairly safely say that what was delivered to the PJ on 8th May only included what they (GM and MW) wanted the PJ to see.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 11.07.15 20:35

@ lj

They might have realized they need proof of Madeleine being alive after that Sunday, but did not know yet how to alter the meta data, or did not have a computer to do that on.

If they didn't know at that point how to alter the meta data, or didn't have the means to alter it, there were others at OC that could have done it for them.

After all, the creche records were changed and the booking sheets, so staff from OC were manipulating all sorts of things and could easily have sorted out the date on the photo as well.

If something happened to MM on 30th April for example, they had three days, so plenty of time.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 11.07.15 21:40

@Nuala wrote:@ TheTruthWillOut

Thank you for that summary and info smilie

I wouldn't expect it to be, and I think we can fairly safely say that what was delivered to the PJ on 8th May only included what they (GM and MW) wanted the PJ to see.

Undoubtedly. I'm just a bit confused that given GA states he's already requested, and going by GM/MW's delivery of 2 CD/DVDs on the 8th, long since received these pictures. So why, when seeing the Canon on the table (on the 21st), does he immediately think 1, we need these pictures when he could already have them and 2, that they will have pictures of the Tapas meal. That is an odd leap.

The Foster's Olympus camera timeline is at the other end of the spectrum in comparison. Extremely slick in how fast and efficient the turnaround was.

1, The Fosters contact LP possibly on the morning of the 8th May or on the 7th May?

2, The cameras/memory cards are collected and then delivered by PC Barham to DC Martin at 21:00 on the 8th May for examination.

3, The examination is completed on the 9th May and a CD of the pictures produced.

I assume a copy of the CD was sent/hand delivered to LP shortly after? The PJ analyse these photos on the 23rd May but I don't know when they received the CD from LP.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 11.07.15 23:04

@ TheTruthWillOut

Ah right, I see what you're getting at.

Your first point, I've no idea. Your second point, not such an odd leap, GA would assume that there would be every chance that any of the T9's cameras would have photos of the Tapas meal (that's what holidaymakers do, photograph one another having a good time) and the PJ would, of course, want any info and photos about that evening.

There's no photos of the Tapas dinners though, taken by anyone during that week, despite there being quite a few people, including outside of the T9, who apparently were there and being on holiday, probably had cameras.

The Tapas dinners are a blank as regards photographic evidence in fact.

But really it was just the Last Photo I was interested in at the moment and why, if it was taken on 29th Apr, it wasn't released to the Press straight away. There's no reason why it should have taken three weeks after MM went missing for it to be released, if it was taken on 29th Apr and all that was needed was changing the date in the exif data.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by lj on 12.07.15 0:58

@Nuala wrote:@ lj

They might have realized they need proof of Madeleine being alive after that Sunday, but did not know yet how to alter the meta data, or did not have a computer to do that on.

If they didn't know at that point how to alter the meta data, or didn't have the means to alter it, there were others at OC that could have done it for them.

After all, the creche records were changed and the booking sheets, so staff from OC were manipulating all sorts of things and could easily have sorted out the date on the photo as well.

If something happened to MM on 30th April for example, they had three days, so plenty of time.

Changing something on paper is different than changing metadata. Maybe there was no-one in the "inner" group who they could ask.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by whodunit on 12.07.15 1:10

So the consensus is that someone altered the metadata on the 'last photo' to make it look like Maddie was still alive on May 3rd? Oh, the irony...
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 12.07.15 1:15

@ Nuala.

I honestly don't know the answer but will state the following facts:

22nd May CM arrives in PDL with GM.
23rd/24th May the last photo is released.

I think from very early on the M's decided (or were 'advised') not to release/give to the PJ any of their personal pictures from that week (just them and/or the kids). The photos given to the PJ by GM/MW were "communal" pictures of the group with the exception of the relatively high number of images of the Payne family.

The last photo could just be CM announcing his arrival having made sure it was safe to release? It was definitely good PR.

I'm sure that the cameras and memory cards have long since been disposed of and doubt any evidence exists anymore, though.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by lj on 12.07.15 1:23

Altered metadata is one line of thoughts here, if I understand it right. PM, with a group of experts, did a lot of work on the last photo. I believe most people now avoid threads about the last photo.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by BlueBag on 12.07.15 7:56

@Nuala wrote:But really it was just the Last Photo I was interested in at the moment and why, if it was taken on 29th Apr, it wasn't released to the Press straight away. There's no reason why it should have taken three weeks after MM went missing for it to be released, if it was taken on 29th Apr and all that was needed was changing the date in the exif data.
I will say again... they possibly hadn't worked out what to do with these pictures on the other camera initially.. then later someone decided on the pool picture as a 3rd May proof photo as things were hotting up.  

As far as I'm aware this is the only photo off that camera that was released or shown anyone.
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