Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Portuguese Police Investigation :: Official Polícia Judiciária McCann Files
Page 1 of 3 • Share
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3 
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 12.09.17 1:34
Witness statement Clarence Mitchell
Date: 28th April 2008
I am the person referred to above, resident at the address previously provided to the police. Today, officers from the Leicestershire police force questioned me about some of the aspects related to the Madeleine McCann inquiry. I was informed that these questions were raised and officially requested by the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my statement will be subject to the Portuguese Penal Code, as well as to Church law.
These are the replies that I can make to the following questions. In relation to how I met Gerry and Kate McCann and what my relationship with them is: I met Gerry at the end of May 2007 when he returned to the UK after his daughter's disappearance. It was a circumstantial meeting at Leicestershire Police station. At the time I was working as part of the Consular Assistance Group, representing the foreigners department. I as asked to return to Portugal with Mr McCann, where I met his wife. Later I became the McCann family's representative and I developed a good personal and professional relationship with them.
As regards my travel to Portugal; I travelled on the 22nd May 2007 and remained in Portugal until the middle of June. Since then, there was no need to return.
As regards my accommodation in Portugal, I stayed in a Mark Warner apartment in the Ocean Club, near to the apartment occupied by the McCann family. I did not notice anything strange in the apartment.
With regard to the moments that I spent with Kate and Gerry; I was with them daily for various hours, whilst I was in Portugal.
After my return to the UK I continued to be in daily contact with them and we would meet two or three times a week.
With regard to Kate and Gerry's behaviour; Their behaviour has been entirely of constant anguish, typical of parents who have lost their daughter in tragic circumstances. Everything that they said or did leads me to believe that they are completely innocent of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.
With regard to the various questions about the Renault Scenic: I often saw the car but I do not remember whether I was only inside the Renault Scenic once. I travelled as a front seat passenger on the night that we went to the charity concert in Lagos. Gerald McCann was the driver. The vehicle was packed with other family members.
I did not notice anything strange about the vehicle nor any unpleasant or intense smell.
I do not think that Kate or Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or transported her body anywhere in the car. In my opinion this is a ridiculous suggestion, given that they as well as the car were the object of intense observation by the media, day and night, during the whole time that I was with them. The car was always parked in front of a multitude from television channels and photographers. The car was always followed by photographers during the whole time.
I cannot think of any more information or explanations that could be relevant or that could help the investigation in any way.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
Date: 28th April 2008
I am the person referred to above, resident at the address previously provided to the police. Today, officers from the Leicestershire police force questioned me about some of the aspects related to the Madeleine McCann inquiry. I was informed that these questions were raised and officially requested by the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my statement will be subject to the Portuguese Penal Code, as well as to Church law.
These are the replies that I can make to the following questions. In relation to how I met Gerry and Kate McCann and what my relationship with them is: I met Gerry at the end of May 2007 when he returned to the UK after his daughter's disappearance. It was a circumstantial meeting at Leicestershire Police station. At the time I was working as part of the Consular Assistance Group, representing the foreigners department. I as asked to return to Portugal with Mr McCann, where I met his wife. Later I became the McCann family's representative and I developed a good personal and professional relationship with them.
As regards my travel to Portugal; I travelled on the 22nd May 2007 and remained in Portugal until the middle of June. Since then, there was no need to return.
As regards my accommodation in Portugal, I stayed in a Mark Warner apartment in the Ocean Club, near to the apartment occupied by the McCann family. I did not notice anything strange in the apartment.
With regard to the moments that I spent with Kate and Gerry; I was with them daily for various hours, whilst I was in Portugal.
After my return to the UK I continued to be in daily contact with them and we would meet two or three times a week.
With regard to Kate and Gerry's behaviour; Their behaviour has been entirely of constant anguish, typical of parents who have lost their daughter in tragic circumstances. Everything that they said or did leads me to believe that they are completely innocent of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.
With regard to the various questions about the Renault Scenic: I often saw the car but I do not remember whether I was only inside the Renault Scenic once. I travelled as a front seat passenger on the night that we went to the charity concert in Lagos. Gerald McCann was the driver. The vehicle was packed with other family members.
I did not notice anything strange about the vehicle nor any unpleasant or intense smell.
I do not think that Kate or Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or transported her body anywhere in the car. In my opinion this is a ridiculous suggestion, given that they as well as the car were the object of intense observation by the media, day and night, during the whole time that I was with them. The car was always parked in front of a multitude from television channels and photographers. The car was always followed by photographers during the whole time.
I cannot think of any more information or explanations that could be relevant or that could help the investigation in any way.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 16.09.17 15:35
Witness Statement - Pamela Fenn [resident of Ocean Club complex Praia da Luz - now deceased]
Dated: 20th August 2007
[Important note: A potentially key witness, Pamela Fenn, was said to be in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine McCann's alleged disappearance, her niece Carole Tranmer visited her during the same week as the McCanns and their friends holiday, in the apartment above apartment 5a, occupied by the McCann family. It is not known exactly why Mrs Fenn wasn't interviewed formally until late August 2007]
Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.
She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.
When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.
When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.
When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.
Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.
Dated: 20th August 2007
[Important note: A potentially key witness, Pamela Fenn, was said to be in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine McCann's alleged disappearance, her niece Carole Tranmer visited her during the same week as the McCanns and their friends holiday, in the apartment above apartment 5a, occupied by the McCann family. It is not known exactly why Mrs Fenn wasn't interviewed formally until late August 2007]
Being of British nationality and in spite of living in Portugal, does not have knowledge of the Portuguese language in its oral and written form, therefore a police interpreter is present, UEVE VAN LOOCK. Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared.
She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger. Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy?, the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23.45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.
When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.
On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"
During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.
She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.
When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.
When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street. She never saw them with any vehicle.
She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering.
When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.
Having read and approved the statement, she signs, together with the interpreter.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:15
Witness statement - Carole Tranmer
Dated: 22nd April 2008
[Important note: Carole Tranmer is the niece of deceased Pamela Fenn. She has claimed that when visiting her aunt at her apartment in the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, situated directly above apartment 5a occupied by the McCann family on Thursday 3rd May 2007, she saw a man below the apartments acting suspiciously and tampering with the security gate leading up to apartment 5a's terrace. Although there is reference to Ms Tranmer having previously spoken to the police, it's not known why she wasn't formally interviewed until the rogatory process conducted by DC Messiah for Leceistershire Constabulary in April 2008]
CT'Humm...my name is Carol TRANMER and my date of birth is the first day of 1948 and I live at, humm... (detail removed).
DC1485'Okay, and your occupation, I believe, you are retired'
CT'I am now retired, yes.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'What was your occupation before retirement'
CT'Humm... Yes, before retirement I worked temporarily for, more or less a year, and before that, I ran an antique business.
DC1485'Right.
CT'I owned it for, humm... four years, and before this I worked as a secretary at Windsor Castle.
DC1485'Right.
CT'For this reason, humm... I worked as an administrative secretary for most of my life.
DC1485'How nice. Did you like what you did'
CT'Yes, very much so, yes.
DC1485'Do you have children'
CT'No, I do not have children.
DC1485'You have no children, therefore, do you live alone with your husband'
CT'Yes, we (inaudible).
DC1485'How long have you been married'
CT'We have been married for 20 years and... humm, have lived together for 23 years in (address removed).
DC1485'In the same location'
CT'In the same house.
DC1485'Same house, yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'You told me that you worked at Windsor Castle'
CT'Windsor Castle.
DC1485'Did you know the Queen'
CT'Yes. I knew her.
DC1485'Personally or'
CT'All, all, yes. The entire family, the whole royal family, yes.
DC1485'How did that happen'
CT'I worked in the Royal Collection and hummm... I was a personal assistant in the royal library and bookstore. I frequently encountered the royal family in private visits. There was also the Easter Court where the entire Buckingham Palace would usually come. Everyone had a very restricted calendar regarding their duties , thus if anything happened to the royal family, if they brought friends of visitors to Windsor, I had the opportunity to meet them and to show them around.
Dc1485'And did you speak to the Queen or Philip'
CT'Mmm, yes, yes.
DC1485'And Diana, did you know Diana'
CT'No, I never knew Diana. She was not there at the time.
DC1485'That must have been lamentable for you.
CT'Pardon'
DC1485'Of not having the opportunity to meet her' Not having the opportunity to meet her is a shame given what happened to her also.
CT'Yes, yes.
CT'Yes, a tragedy, but it was a good experience working there.
DC1485'Great! It is good that you liked it.
CT'Yes, I liked it.
DC1485'The reason for our discussion today, Carole, has to do with the Portuguese investigation regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCANN on Thursday the 3rd of May of 2007. Essentially, the Portuguese police, or the PJ as they are also known, are leading this investigation and have asked us, the Leicestershire police--because the McCANN family are also from Leicestershire--to be the their link in England to the investigation. Do you understand what we have to do'
CT'Mmm, mmm yes.
DC1485'The reason for speaking to you is obviously the same reason we are speaking to the other people who were in Portugal and who know the McCann family. They are all being questioned and their statements recorded on video, as are you. You are not in the minority'everyone's testimony has proceeded in the same way.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And as I have already mentioned, the reason for this meeting is to produce an interview so that the Portuguese authorities can have all the statements that are needed in order to proceed with the investigation and/or conclude the enquiry. This is their decision and we are merely collaborating with them.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'They only want us to speak with you so as to elaborate questions or to our interview technique. Short of this, they are trying to see if there is any existing piece of information that may surface.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DCc1485'Are you okay'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'What I am about to ask you Caroline, is to make an introduction, that you tell me a bit about yourself and how you managed or organised your stay in Portugal during the time of the disappearance.
CT'Mmm, good. My aunt, Pamela Fenn, lives in a Luz apartment and we visit her frequently. Our last visit was a result of a birthday gift, if you can call it that. But our trip was in reality to look for a home, as we would like to live there one day. For this reason, we stayed in the eastern Algarve, not in my aunt's house but in a small complex whose name I do not remember.
DC1485'Could it have been Pinhal do Sol'
CT'Yes, that is it.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'So, we stayed there. We booked a reservation for only a week, and hummm'on Sunday, we decide to visit my aunt and to take her to lunch. It was at this point that the photographs of our holidays were taken.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'After this we spent the rest of our time in the eastern Algarve to look at properties and on Thursday'my birthday was on Tuesday'we decided to take my aunt to lunch before our return the next Saturday. The incident happened on Thursday.
DC1485'Yes. You should continue and explain how everything happened.
CT'Yes, I will describe it; I will describe everything, everything that I can.
CT'We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards. It was at this point that I turned to my aunt and my husband and exclaimed 'That was really very strange', but they were talking and very involved in the conversation (inaudible). I became involved in the conversation and did not think anymore about the incident. We left when it was around 6h30, after having finished eating and doing other things, and on Friday we passed by car, continuing to look at properties and such. We did not visit any estate agents, and on Saturday we left. We got to the airport and heard people talking about a missing child. This did not yet bring anything back and we commented on the horror.
CT'After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child. I did not want to believe it and for this reason telephoned her and said: 'Did you see'' to which she responded 'It was been an inferno, terrible since both of you left'. After this I spoke with my cousin, whose son is at Sandhurst and told her 'What do you think we should do, do you think'' because at this time I remembered that I had seen something. It did not come to me right away but afterwards I told my husband 'Well, I saw that funny situation, you know'that type of behavior of the individual, with a sneaky aspect' to which he responded, 'Well you should talk to the police', and I said 'Yes, but it is likely that it has nothing to do with it'. After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them. I did exactly this. I telephoned the Windsor police and told them, more or less, what I had told him and to my family. They told me that they would give me a number to call the Leicester police. We passed by the Windsor squadron but it is clear that no one was there so I called the Leciester police and told them basically what I had seen. They told me, well'thank you, we are going to get in touch with you, and after that everything happened. This is what happened, more or less.
CT'Thus, this was when I called them, that is when you, sir, called me.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'After that, you booked a meeting time so that someone could come and speak with me
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And I was working temporarily (inaudible) for the Royal Borough of Maidenhead.
DC1485'Did they visit you at work'
CT'Yes, they came to the office as they asked me what would be easier and I told them that it would be easier if they could come to me so that I would not miss too much work and'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Then, I arranged a room and they came to visit.
DC1485'Wonderful.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'Were they at all unaccommodating'
CT'No.
DC1485'The fact that they came to visit you.
CT'No, no, truthfully, I am only trying to help.
DC1485'Yes.
Dated: 22nd April 2008
[Important note: Carole Tranmer is the niece of deceased Pamela Fenn. She has claimed that when visiting her aunt at her apartment in the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, situated directly above apartment 5a occupied by the McCann family on Thursday 3rd May 2007, she saw a man below the apartments acting suspiciously and tampering with the security gate leading up to apartment 5a's terrace. Although there is reference to Ms Tranmer having previously spoken to the police, it's not known why she wasn't formally interviewed until the rogatory process conducted by DC Messiah for Leceistershire Constabulary in April 2008]
CT'Humm...my name is Carol TRANMER and my date of birth is the first day of 1948 and I live at, humm... (detail removed).
DC1485'Okay, and your occupation, I believe, you are retired'
CT'I am now retired, yes.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'What was your occupation before retirement'
CT'Humm... Yes, before retirement I worked temporarily for, more or less a year, and before that, I ran an antique business.
DC1485'Right.
CT'I owned it for, humm... four years, and before this I worked as a secretary at Windsor Castle.
DC1485'Right.
CT'For this reason, humm... I worked as an administrative secretary for most of my life.
DC1485'How nice. Did you like what you did'
CT'Yes, very much so, yes.
DC1485'Do you have children'
CT'No, I do not have children.
DC1485'You have no children, therefore, do you live alone with your husband'
CT'Yes, we (inaudible).
DC1485'How long have you been married'
CT'We have been married for 20 years and... humm, have lived together for 23 years in (address removed).
DC1485'In the same location'
CT'In the same house.
DC1485'Same house, yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'You told me that you worked at Windsor Castle'
CT'Windsor Castle.
DC1485'Did you know the Queen'
CT'Yes. I knew her.
DC1485'Personally or'
CT'All, all, yes. The entire family, the whole royal family, yes.
DC1485'How did that happen'
CT'I worked in the Royal Collection and hummm... I was a personal assistant in the royal library and bookstore. I frequently encountered the royal family in private visits. There was also the Easter Court where the entire Buckingham Palace would usually come. Everyone had a very restricted calendar regarding their duties , thus if anything happened to the royal family, if they brought friends of visitors to Windsor, I had the opportunity to meet them and to show them around.
Dc1485'And did you speak to the Queen or Philip'
CT'Mmm, yes, yes.
DC1485'And Diana, did you know Diana'
CT'No, I never knew Diana. She was not there at the time.
DC1485'That must have been lamentable for you.
CT'Pardon'
DC1485'Of not having the opportunity to meet her' Not having the opportunity to meet her is a shame given what happened to her also.
CT'Yes, yes.
CT'Yes, a tragedy, but it was a good experience working there.
DC1485'Great! It is good that you liked it.
CT'Yes, I liked it.
DC1485'The reason for our discussion today, Carole, has to do with the Portuguese investigation regarding the disappearance of Madeleine McCANN on Thursday the 3rd of May of 2007. Essentially, the Portuguese police, or the PJ as they are also known, are leading this investigation and have asked us, the Leicestershire police--because the McCANN family are also from Leicestershire--to be the their link in England to the investigation. Do you understand what we have to do'
CT'Mmm, mmm yes.
DC1485'The reason for speaking to you is obviously the same reason we are speaking to the other people who were in Portugal and who know the McCann family. They are all being questioned and their statements recorded on video, as are you. You are not in the minority'everyone's testimony has proceeded in the same way.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And as I have already mentioned, the reason for this meeting is to produce an interview so that the Portuguese authorities can have all the statements that are needed in order to proceed with the investigation and/or conclude the enquiry. This is their decision and we are merely collaborating with them.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'They only want us to speak with you so as to elaborate questions or to our interview technique. Short of this, they are trying to see if there is any existing piece of information that may surface.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DCc1485'Are you okay'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'What I am about to ask you Caroline, is to make an introduction, that you tell me a bit about yourself and how you managed or organised your stay in Portugal during the time of the disappearance.
CT'Mmm, good. My aunt, Pamela Fenn, lives in a Luz apartment and we visit her frequently. Our last visit was a result of a birthday gift, if you can call it that. But our trip was in reality to look for a home, as we would like to live there one day. For this reason, we stayed in the eastern Algarve, not in my aunt's house but in a small complex whose name I do not remember.
DC1485'Could it have been Pinhal do Sol'
CT'Yes, that is it.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'So, we stayed there. We booked a reservation for only a week, and hummm'on Sunday, we decide to visit my aunt and to take her to lunch. It was at this point that the photographs of our holidays were taken.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'After this we spent the rest of our time in the eastern Algarve to look at properties and on Thursday'my birthday was on Tuesday'we decided to take my aunt to lunch before our return the next Saturday. The incident happened on Thursday.
DC1485'Yes. You should continue and explain how everything happened.
CT'Yes, I will describe it; I will describe everything, everything that I can.
CT'We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards. It was at this point that I turned to my aunt and my husband and exclaimed 'That was really very strange', but they were talking and very involved in the conversation (inaudible). I became involved in the conversation and did not think anymore about the incident. We left when it was around 6h30, after having finished eating and doing other things, and on Friday we passed by car, continuing to look at properties and such. We did not visit any estate agents, and on Saturday we left. We got to the airport and heard people talking about a missing child. This did not yet bring anything back and we commented on the horror.
CT'After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child. I did not want to believe it and for this reason telephoned her and said: 'Did you see'' to which she responded 'It was been an inferno, terrible since both of you left'. After this I spoke with my cousin, whose son is at Sandhurst and told her 'What do you think we should do, do you think'' because at this time I remembered that I had seen something. It did not come to me right away but afterwards I told my husband 'Well, I saw that funny situation, you know'that type of behavior of the individual, with a sneaky aspect' to which he responded, 'Well you should talk to the police', and I said 'Yes, but it is likely that it has nothing to do with it'. After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them. I did exactly this. I telephoned the Windsor police and told them, more or less, what I had told him and to my family. They told me that they would give me a number to call the Leicester police. We passed by the Windsor squadron but it is clear that no one was there so I called the Leciester police and told them basically what I had seen. They told me, well'thank you, we are going to get in touch with you, and after that everything happened. This is what happened, more or less.
CT'Thus, this was when I called them, that is when you, sir, called me.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'After that, you booked a meeting time so that someone could come and speak with me
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And I was working temporarily (inaudible) for the Royal Borough of Maidenhead.
DC1485'Did they visit you at work'
CT'Yes, they came to the office as they asked me what would be easier and I told them that it would be easier if they could come to me so that I would not miss too much work and'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Then, I arranged a room and they came to visit.
DC1485'Wonderful.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'Were they at all unaccommodating'
CT'No.
DC1485'The fact that they came to visit you.
CT'No, no, truthfully, I am only trying to help.
DC1485'Yes.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:16
continued....
CT'An after having spoken to them, I received a call from someone in Reading asking me to help in trying to create what they called an 'identi-kit'.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'They asked me 'if it was possible' and I responded 'yes, of course' and they came from Reading. I reserved another room for them and it was in this way that everything happened, and'
DC1485'Okay Carole. I have read your statement from the 8th of May, 2007, more or less one week after you saw the individual. It would be easier if you read the statement yourself and tell me if there is anything you want to add.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'I would like to analyse a few parts of your statement with you, if you allow me, and to stimulate your memory to see if you remember anything else in relation to your stay.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'I would like to clarify in your statement'-your statement 'On the 28th of May, 2008'my husband and I, Chris TRANMER, caught a flight to Portugal to spend a week of holidays in the eastern Algarve' and in addition, to look for properties to buy. 'We stayed in a location called'"
Dc1485'Quarteira, is that so'
CT'I believe so.
DC1485'Quarteira.
CT'That is it, Quarteira, Quarteira.
DC1485'Quarteira, in a zone called (inaudible).
CT'(inaudible) mmm, mmm.
CT''We rented a vehicle to travel. My aunt lives in apartment 20, Waterside Gardens, Praia da Luz, Bloco 5G in the Ocean Club. We went to visit her on Sunday, the 29th of May'. Is this wrong'
CT'No, it is not correct. We arrived on Saturday,
DC1485'Well then, it was after, after the disappearance of Madeleine. Was it not'
CT'No, no because this, humm... was in April, it was the 1st of May, Tuesday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We arrived more or less in the end of April.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Therefore, it was... my birthday was on the 1st, Tuesday, and Thursday was the 1st of May.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus, we arrived the Saturday before.
DC1485'Let me show you what you said, where I want to arrive, ma'am, you returned to Portugal after the disappearance of Madeleine'
CT'No.
DC1485'So that date is incorrect'
CT'Yes. It was in fact in April.
DC1485'April, this is it then'
CT'Yes, I should have read this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Or no, I don't know.
DC1485'It says here, Saturday, the 28th of May.
CT'It was the 28th of April because it was on the 3rd, Thursday, when we took my aunt to lunch.
CT'Yes and after we went to visit her on Sunday. We visited her on the 29th of April.
DC1485'And here it says May, thus this statement is incorrect, right'
CT'Yes of course.
DC1485'Good. Let us clarify the statement collected on the 8th of May, relative to the dates referred to.
CT'Yes, it was wrong, it was in April.
DC1485'In fact it should be Saturday, the 28th of April.
CT'Sure.
DC1485'This is correct, of course it was.
CT'I got confused when I read this.
DC1485'Yes, I would also get confused.
DC1485'Good, then in relation to the date, everything is now correct'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Yes, good. Relative to what you said happened on Thursday, your statement states that Thursday, the 3rd, you went to visit your aunt. Therefore, you saw her on Sunday'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'And after that you went in search of properties'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Passing through the eastern Algarve, right'
CT'That is correct, yes.
DC1485'Thursday, the 3rd of May.
CT'May, mmm, mmm.
DC1485'You returned to your aunt in Praia. Now tell me from where you were coming and tell me about that day.
CT'We, we were lodged in Quarteira.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'On this day, that morning, we left towards Luz but we took a bit of time, not much, much time. I do not remember now but it was about an hour or so because we were in the eastern part and she lives in the barlavento region of the Algarve.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We drove from there until Luz where my aunt lived, humm...I don't remember but I believe that we also went shopping for her before our lunch and we had coffee when we arrived, humm... It should have been 11 or around noon when we arrived, humm... after we went to pick her up. We met up, drank a coffee on the terrace and after went out to lunch in Lagos, which is humm... in the old part of the city. There is a restaurant there whose specialty is fish and she really wanted to go there. We returned around 3:30, sat on the terrace, had a coffee and stayed in the apartment until around 6:30 and left around 6:30 that same day.
DC1485'This was on Sunday, right'
CT'No, this was on Thursday.
DC1485'This on Thursday, I understand.
CT'This all happened on Thursday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We left around 6:30. It was already dusk because at that time of the year, it gets dark quickly in Portugal. We drove to our hotel and arrived at 8:30, eight or 8:30.
DC1485'It was a two hour trip then'
CT'It was about that, mmm, yes, it was a considerable distance.
DC1485'Speak to me about the apartment where your aunt lives.
CT'Sure (inaud'le)
DC1485'It is obviously called, given its location, the Ocean Club, right'
CT'It is in the Ocean Club, but she...
DC1485'How long has she been there, in that apartment'
CT'When my uncle died, they had a villa close to Lagos, but when he died of Alzheimer's, she sold it to buy the site in Luz. She bought it because it was surrounded by people and it was easy for her to come and go as she did not want a big site. She bought it in 2003'since 2003 and it is the second or third floor, I am never certain, but I believe that there is one more apartment
DC1485'ground floor... ground floor, first floor'
CT'No, she is the third, I believe that she is on the third floor.
DC1485'Third floor.
CT'There is only one on top, therefore, she is on the third floor, at the end apartment. Once there, you take the elevator or the stairs. There is no other entrance or exit. You go directly to her door. She lives at the end. There is no other access.
DC1485'Therefore, when one leaves the elevator, to which side does one walk, left or right'
CT'You turn left.
DC1485'Sure.
CT'You walk, as it is a long corridor. It is open at the back part, it is an open corridor open in such a way one can see the front because the back part, if you can call that part which is turned toward the pool, but the front part of the building, is in truth the back of the same. Does this make sense'
DC1485'Yes, that makes sense.
CT'Because this is the entry, the only entry point and exit point, after this there is only the veranda and the terrace and nothing more. It has been there since 2003.
DC1485'And when you enter, give me a description of the apartment.
CT'I will describe what one sees when entering. Well, when one enters there is a small entrance hall where you find her room and the living area. After, there is one more room on the opposite side of the small veranda. It is not really a veranda but a passage where one can walk; there is a window and an entrance door. This window is normally covered by a closed blind because it is the guest room; after that is a front door in such a position'the window is there and the door and when one enters there is an access door to the to the guest room and after, her room, which is at the edge of the building.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'One passes through there and there is a bathroom and through the entrance hall there is a guest room, a kitchen and an eating area. After the living area, there is a big open terrace'where we would usually go. It is completely open.
DC1485'When you are on the terrace, to which direction are you turned'
CT'We are turned to a beautiful view of the ocean and all the clay roofs of the village, where one can see the pool, the reception area, the pool zone, the tennis courts, and one could see the roof of the Tapas bar. There are trees and bushes between all of this, so when one looks out, there are only roof tops, the small homes and other villas. It is an incredible view.
CT'An after having spoken to them, I received a call from someone in Reading asking me to help in trying to create what they called an 'identi-kit'.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'They asked me 'if it was possible' and I responded 'yes, of course' and they came from Reading. I reserved another room for them and it was in this way that everything happened, and'
DC1485'Okay Carole. I have read your statement from the 8th of May, 2007, more or less one week after you saw the individual. It would be easier if you read the statement yourself and tell me if there is anything you want to add.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'I would like to analyse a few parts of your statement with you, if you allow me, and to stimulate your memory to see if you remember anything else in relation to your stay.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'I would like to clarify in your statement'-your statement 'On the 28th of May, 2008'my husband and I, Chris TRANMER, caught a flight to Portugal to spend a week of holidays in the eastern Algarve' and in addition, to look for properties to buy. 'We stayed in a location called'"
Dc1485'Quarteira, is that so'
CT'I believe so.
DC1485'Quarteira.
CT'That is it, Quarteira, Quarteira.
DC1485'Quarteira, in a zone called (inaudible).
CT'(inaudible) mmm, mmm.
CT''We rented a vehicle to travel. My aunt lives in apartment 20, Waterside Gardens, Praia da Luz, Bloco 5G in the Ocean Club. We went to visit her on Sunday, the 29th of May'. Is this wrong'
CT'No, it is not correct. We arrived on Saturday,
DC1485'Well then, it was after, after the disappearance of Madeleine. Was it not'
CT'No, no because this, humm... was in April, it was the 1st of May, Tuesday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We arrived more or less in the end of April.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Therefore, it was... my birthday was on the 1st, Tuesday, and Thursday was the 1st of May.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus, we arrived the Saturday before.
DC1485'Let me show you what you said, where I want to arrive, ma'am, you returned to Portugal after the disappearance of Madeleine'
CT'No.
DC1485'So that date is incorrect'
CT'Yes. It was in fact in April.
DC1485'April, this is it then'
CT'Yes, I should have read this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Or no, I don't know.
DC1485'It says here, Saturday, the 28th of May.
CT'It was the 28th of April because it was on the 3rd, Thursday, when we took my aunt to lunch.
CT'Yes and after we went to visit her on Sunday. We visited her on the 29th of April.
DC1485'And here it says May, thus this statement is incorrect, right'
CT'Yes of course.
DC1485'Good. Let us clarify the statement collected on the 8th of May, relative to the dates referred to.
CT'Yes, it was wrong, it was in April.
DC1485'In fact it should be Saturday, the 28th of April.
CT'Sure.
DC1485'This is correct, of course it was.
CT'I got confused when I read this.
DC1485'Yes, I would also get confused.
DC1485'Good, then in relation to the date, everything is now correct'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Yes, good. Relative to what you said happened on Thursday, your statement states that Thursday, the 3rd, you went to visit your aunt. Therefore, you saw her on Sunday'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'And after that you went in search of properties'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Passing through the eastern Algarve, right'
CT'That is correct, yes.
DC1485'Thursday, the 3rd of May.
CT'May, mmm, mmm.
DC1485'You returned to your aunt in Praia. Now tell me from where you were coming and tell me about that day.
CT'We, we were lodged in Quarteira.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'On this day, that morning, we left towards Luz but we took a bit of time, not much, much time. I do not remember now but it was about an hour or so because we were in the eastern part and she lives in the barlavento region of the Algarve.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We drove from there until Luz where my aunt lived, humm...I don't remember but I believe that we also went shopping for her before our lunch and we had coffee when we arrived, humm... It should have been 11 or around noon when we arrived, humm... after we went to pick her up. We met up, drank a coffee on the terrace and after went out to lunch in Lagos, which is humm... in the old part of the city. There is a restaurant there whose specialty is fish and she really wanted to go there. We returned around 3:30, sat on the terrace, had a coffee and stayed in the apartment until around 6:30 and left around 6:30 that same day.
DC1485'This was on Sunday, right'
CT'No, this was on Thursday.
DC1485'This on Thursday, I understand.
CT'This all happened on Thursday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We left around 6:30. It was already dusk because at that time of the year, it gets dark quickly in Portugal. We drove to our hotel and arrived at 8:30, eight or 8:30.
DC1485'It was a two hour trip then'
CT'It was about that, mmm, yes, it was a considerable distance.
DC1485'Speak to me about the apartment where your aunt lives.
CT'Sure (inaud'le)
DC1485'It is obviously called, given its location, the Ocean Club, right'
CT'It is in the Ocean Club, but she...
DC1485'How long has she been there, in that apartment'
CT'When my uncle died, they had a villa close to Lagos, but when he died of Alzheimer's, she sold it to buy the site in Luz. She bought it because it was surrounded by people and it was easy for her to come and go as she did not want a big site. She bought it in 2003'since 2003 and it is the second or third floor, I am never certain, but I believe that there is one more apartment
DC1485'ground floor... ground floor, first floor'
CT'No, she is the third, I believe that she is on the third floor.
DC1485'Third floor.
CT'There is only one on top, therefore, she is on the third floor, at the end apartment. Once there, you take the elevator or the stairs. There is no other entrance or exit. You go directly to her door. She lives at the end. There is no other access.
DC1485'Therefore, when one leaves the elevator, to which side does one walk, left or right'
CT'You turn left.
DC1485'Sure.
CT'You walk, as it is a long corridor. It is open at the back part, it is an open corridor open in such a way one can see the front because the back part, if you can call that part which is turned toward the pool, but the front part of the building, is in truth the back of the same. Does this make sense'
DC1485'Yes, that makes sense.
CT'Because this is the entry, the only entry point and exit point, after this there is only the veranda and the terrace and nothing more. It has been there since 2003.
DC1485'And when you enter, give me a description of the apartment.
CT'I will describe what one sees when entering. Well, when one enters there is a small entrance hall where you find her room and the living area. After, there is one more room on the opposite side of the small veranda. It is not really a veranda but a passage where one can walk; there is a window and an entrance door. This window is normally covered by a closed blind because it is the guest room; after that is a front door in such a position'the window is there and the door and when one enters there is an access door to the to the guest room and after, her room, which is at the edge of the building.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'One passes through there and there is a bathroom and through the entrance hall there is a guest room, a kitchen and an eating area. After the living area, there is a big open terrace'where we would usually go. It is completely open.
DC1485'When you are on the terrace, to which direction are you turned'
CT'We are turned to a beautiful view of the ocean and all the clay roofs of the village, where one can see the pool, the reception area, the pool zone, the tennis courts, and one could see the roof of the Tapas bar. There are trees and bushes between all of this, so when one looks out, there are only roof tops, the small homes and other villas. It is an incredible view.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:18
continued....
DC1485'Who else lives there'
CT' Actually, she is the only resident, which may seem strange but she wants to be there. So she is the only resident. All the other owners, the majority of them, more or less, are people who acquired the apartments and rent them or else use them only for holidays. For this reason, there are times in the year when she is alone.
DC1485'And who else lives with her'
CT' She is completely alone.
DC1485'Alone.
CT' No one else.
DC1485'So, in addition to your visit...'
CT' When we visit or stay in the apartment with her, we do not take advantage of her because she is an older woman; she is eighty-something and as you know, it is not big enough for us to stay there with her.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' We always stay somewhere else, local. It is easier for her.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' And she does not have to worry about us and with the family. She has many relatives who visit and normally they all stay...
DC1485'Somewhere else.
CT' Unless it is just for a weekend or something similar.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' Normally, because it is a lot of work and you know, she is arthtritic and these things; well, we prefer to stay somewhere else close to her.
DC1485'And you can confirm that it is block 5G'
CT'5G yes.
DC1485'And the name of, and the number of the apartment, 5G'
CT' No, the apartment is the twentieth.
DC1485'Apartment 20.
CT' Apartment 20.
DC1485'Waterside Gardens'
CT' Yes. Waterside Gardens, yes.
DC1485'Very good. When you look outside, as you mentioned a while ago, when you spoke of the view at which you were turned when you enter the terrace, tell me, what do you see below that area'
CT' Well, below, if you look right down, there is a street which leads to the supermarket which is at the end of a small' I call it an alley' a long passageway in front of all of the verandas that look towards the pool. There is a hedge which lines the small gates which gave access to the ground-floor apartments and it was through one of these small gates that I saw this person leave.
DC1485'Very good.
CT' And it was here from where he left. After this, he looked to this side and left quickly and disappeared in that direction. That brought him along the street leading up to the supermarket, or up until the top of the hill ahead. I do not know which direction he took (inaudible).
DC1485'Okay. And did you see anyone else; you know what day it was; the day you were there, on Thursday. Do you know if there were more tourists in that block of apartments'
CT' No, that is to say, there were more people in the pool zone. There were more people around. I believe that it may be possible some were swimming, or even playing tennis. I cannot remember.
DC1485'Was there anyone who called your attention' Think, think well about the location and where you were on this day.
CT' On that day'
DC1485'Besides the individual, obviously.
CT' Besides him...
DC1485'Yes.
CT' No one comes to mind. The one thing that I do remember is that some celebration was going on, but I don't know if it was the Sunday or the Thursday. There was some celebration, next to the pool. I do not know if it was the families, the guests of the complex, but there was something. The only thing I can say is that it could have been Sunday or Thursday. I cannot remember and for this reason I would like to leave out this detail.
DC1485'When you speak of a celebration' was it was a barbeque or a bunch of people in good moods'
CT' Well, it appeared to be a celebration, you know, with all the people in good moods and a lot of noise' not much noise but people were laughing and I do not know if this was on Sunday or Thursday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' This detail I will not mention since I am not certain if it was Sunday or Thursday. Yes, and I don't want to confuse my recollection with this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' Mmm, but I believe that there is nothing more. I cannot remember anything more about anyone; nothing more about this.
DC1485'When you were there, did you visit the supermarket'
CT' Humm... I am not certain if I went there that morning. I believe that is possible my husband passed by there to pick up something for mu aunt. Me, no. It could have been Sunday' as you can see once again I am uncertain, I am sorry I cannot remember.
DC1485'Who else lives there'
CT' Actually, she is the only resident, which may seem strange but she wants to be there. So she is the only resident. All the other owners, the majority of them, more or less, are people who acquired the apartments and rent them or else use them only for holidays. For this reason, there are times in the year when she is alone.
DC1485'And who else lives with her'
CT' She is completely alone.
DC1485'Alone.
CT' No one else.
DC1485'So, in addition to your visit...'
CT' When we visit or stay in the apartment with her, we do not take advantage of her because she is an older woman; she is eighty-something and as you know, it is not big enough for us to stay there with her.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' We always stay somewhere else, local. It is easier for her.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' And she does not have to worry about us and with the family. She has many relatives who visit and normally they all stay...
DC1485'Somewhere else.
CT' Unless it is just for a weekend or something similar.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' Normally, because it is a lot of work and you know, she is arthtritic and these things; well, we prefer to stay somewhere else close to her.
DC1485'And you can confirm that it is block 5G'
CT'5G yes.
DC1485'And the name of, and the number of the apartment, 5G'
CT' No, the apartment is the twentieth.
DC1485'Apartment 20.
CT' Apartment 20.
DC1485'Waterside Gardens'
CT' Yes. Waterside Gardens, yes.
DC1485'Very good. When you look outside, as you mentioned a while ago, when you spoke of the view at which you were turned when you enter the terrace, tell me, what do you see below that area'
CT' Well, below, if you look right down, there is a street which leads to the supermarket which is at the end of a small' I call it an alley' a long passageway in front of all of the verandas that look towards the pool. There is a hedge which lines the small gates which gave access to the ground-floor apartments and it was through one of these small gates that I saw this person leave.
DC1485'Very good.
CT' And it was here from where he left. After this, he looked to this side and left quickly and disappeared in that direction. That brought him along the street leading up to the supermarket, or up until the top of the hill ahead. I do not know which direction he took (inaudible).
DC1485'Okay. And did you see anyone else; you know what day it was; the day you were there, on Thursday. Do you know if there were more tourists in that block of apartments'
CT' No, that is to say, there were more people in the pool zone. There were more people around. I believe that it may be possible some were swimming, or even playing tennis. I cannot remember.
DC1485'Was there anyone who called your attention' Think, think well about the location and where you were on this day.
CT' On that day'
DC1485'Besides the individual, obviously.
CT' Besides him...
DC1485'Yes.
CT' No one comes to mind. The one thing that I do remember is that some celebration was going on, but I don't know if it was the Sunday or the Thursday. There was some celebration, next to the pool. I do not know if it was the families, the guests of the complex, but there was something. The only thing I can say is that it could have been Sunday or Thursday. I cannot remember and for this reason I would like to leave out this detail.
DC1485'When you speak of a celebration' was it was a barbeque or a bunch of people in good moods'
CT' Well, it appeared to be a celebration, you know, with all the people in good moods and a lot of noise' not much noise but people were laughing and I do not know if this was on Sunday or Thursday.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' This detail I will not mention since I am not certain if it was Sunday or Thursday. Yes, and I don't want to confuse my recollection with this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT' Mmm, but I believe that there is nothing more. I cannot remember anything more about anyone; nothing more about this.
DC1485'When you were there, did you visit the supermarket'
CT' Humm... I am not certain if I went there that morning. I believe that is possible my husband passed by there to pick up something for mu aunt. Me, no. It could have been Sunday' as you can see once again I am uncertain, I am sorry I cannot remember.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:19
continued....
DC1485'Try to position yourself during the second visit; given what happened on Thursday, think about the hour you arrived. Think about whether someone welcomed you when you exited the car. Ok'
CT' Mmm.
DC1485'On Thursday.
CT' Well, we arrived and went directly to the apartment. My husband thinks that he noticed something. I think that we went to the supermarket on the street to the restaurant to see if' to find blubs for the light fixture. This was before lunch. We looked around the supermarket for these special bulbs for her. He could have gone alone or' I do not know. I did not go but it is possible he went, but no'I cannot remember. We got together and had coffee and after went out for lunch. It had to around noon or something similar but it was probably noon because we wanted to get to the restaurant around this time as it fills quickly and is well known and frequented by locals. They only serve fish, fish, fish, but she adores it. For this reason we had to arrive early before the other people' around noon.
DC1485'Noon.
CT'Well we must have left home around 11h00 to 11h30'mmm'
DC1485'And did you go on foot or by car'
CT'No, we had to drive there.
DC1485'How long did the journey take'
CT'Hum, it was not very long'it is in Lagos.
DC1485'It is in Lagos.
CT'Yes, from Luz to Lagos.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It must have been about 15 minutes.
DC1485'Okay. What was the restaurant called'
CT'Well, I do not remember the name (inaud'le) or something like that. It is located in the old part of the city and one goes climbing until the top (inaudible) yes. 'Esquitera' or something like that. I don't remember its proper name.
DC1485'It is a restaurant that serves fish'
CT'It is a restaurant that serves fish. It is very well known.
DC1485'On top of the hill'
CT'But it is not a tourist location; it is more for local people, more or less, but it is the best, mmm, and it is not refined. The tables are made of wood with oilcloth and the fish, you know... it is wonderful.
DC1485--Yes.
CT'But I cannot remember the name it is (inaudible) or something like that.
DC1485'Okay.
DC1485'Did you go to the Tapas Bar with your aunt'
CT'No, no, no it was not there when I visited the last time, and it is something very recent; I believe that it was built about a year ago and I was there before the Tapas Bar was constructed. I think it was a part of the reception or something similar. We were not there before. It is very new.
DC1485'And the courts, did you visit the tennis courts'
CT'No, we do not play tennis and we did not swim in the pool.
DC1485'You did not use the pool'
CT'No.
DC1485'And the cr'he'did you go to the cr'he zone where the children were'
CT'No, I would not go to the cr'he as there was no reason to.
DC1485'Okay. How many times were you there exactly'
CT'Hum... in Portugal or in Luz'
DC1485'Okay, in this resort'
CT'A few times, perhaps three; the first time was when my aunt moved in 2003 or 2004 and after that for a week. My brother dies in 2003 and I remember that my uncle, Aunt Pamela's husband, died in June of 2003. As there were four deaths in our family in the first four months of that year, the time of her move has stayed in my memory.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And, she was very upset with all of it, and I was trying to help her cope along with dealing with my twin brother's death. For this reason, I went to visit her for a week in February in 2004. It was my first time in that place but we had already been in Luz before that when we went to Portugal as tourists. After that, we went a second time with my husband and stayed in (inaudible) a small fishing village about 10 minutes from Luz. We have already been in Portugal many times, but to visit Luz only three times.
DC1485'Okay. When you were there how was the temperature'
CT'It was good, sunny and hot. At times it was necessary to use a sweater but during the day it was marvellous. Besides this, it was fresh and but very agreeable.
CT'I believe it rained one day; it was a bit windy, besides this... it was wonderful weather ' not for sun bathing, even though there were people doing just this but it was not really sun bathing weather.
DC1485'The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.
CT'Outline'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Oh my God.
DC1485'You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace'
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'This, this is a map, it only covers the Luz area and he have here, if you can imagine, or even see exactly, the block of apartments.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And here is the pool.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Here is the Tapas Bar and restaurant.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Here is the tennis court.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Right here.
DC1485'This is rua estreita.
CT'That is rua estreita.
DC1485'The passageway, right.
DC1485'Point me to the direction from which the individual came.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And if you could show me in the way a camera captures an image. From, from which apartment did he leave and to where did he go and where were you'
CT'In my aunt's, in the apartment of my aunt in the corner to the top.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Look to the bottom where you were looking, if you want. You were looking to the bottom to the right and downwards, but this is not towards the lower apartment but is actually slightly to the right and there is her veranda and finally, here on top, for I would say that here there is a small gate'for this reason it was not this apartment in the end, that is what I wanted to say, you know'
CT'It was not the last one, yes, it was not exactly the last of the street.
DC1485'No, it was not the first gate.
CT'Of the interior.
CT'Where, if you have access.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'From there, there is a gate. It was not this gate, it was'when you leave the rua estreita, is it the very first gate you see.
DC1485'How many gates are there in total'
CT'I think that all of them have small gates.
DC1485'I am looking.
CT'Yes, as I recall or think, but I believe they are for all people. I am not certain because I never saw the lower apartments having access to the others, no. For this reason, he was leaving and after looked from side to side and continued walking on the street. I did not see in which direction he left, and it is here that I think I saw him, but it is not possible for someone to leave from this gate.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Or perhaps it is here from which the people or'perhaps I did not notice that there was another small gate.
DC1485'Oh, I am seeing it.
CT'I thought that there was only this gate.
DC1485'Thus, here lies the confusion' to clarify things.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'It is not exactly the principal gate because, as you noted, the ultimate apartment is where the McCann's were lodged.
CT'Well I did not know. As you know I was on the top.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And so it is clear, it was not this apartment from which I was looking.
DC1485'Your aunt's apartment is exactly on top'
CT'Yes, it is directly on top.
DC1485'But it is two floors up'
CT'It is the last one, yes.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Well then, I was looking to the first gate at the end of the alley.
DC1485'Yes, yes.
CT'It was there that I saw the person leave.
DC1485'Okay, and your direction was this way, following the passageway or to the other direction towards the shrubs'
CT'No, it was towards the gate.
DC1485'In the inside.
CT'Yes, because humm... it must be, there are shrubs and there is no gate there.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'As far as I know.
DC1485'Okay, yes.
CT'I did not, I do not remember any gates. I believe that you have to go up and around, or to go through a different passage, or something like this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I was never exactly in the area below but I do know that it was this locale, humm... and I told my husband, I should tell him this. I had no idea that it was this was the apartment they stayed. I only knew that which I saw and I was not wasting time. (inaudible)
DC1485'No, not in any way. We only want to clarify everything.
CT'It is only that gate, that is the only one.
DC1485'Would you mind making me an outline, please'
DC1485'Try to position yourself during the second visit; given what happened on Thursday, think about the hour you arrived. Think about whether someone welcomed you when you exited the car. Ok'
CT' Mmm.
DC1485'On Thursday.
CT' Well, we arrived and went directly to the apartment. My husband thinks that he noticed something. I think that we went to the supermarket on the street to the restaurant to see if' to find blubs for the light fixture. This was before lunch. We looked around the supermarket for these special bulbs for her. He could have gone alone or' I do not know. I did not go but it is possible he went, but no'I cannot remember. We got together and had coffee and after went out for lunch. It had to around noon or something similar but it was probably noon because we wanted to get to the restaurant around this time as it fills quickly and is well known and frequented by locals. They only serve fish, fish, fish, but she adores it. For this reason we had to arrive early before the other people' around noon.
DC1485'Noon.
CT'Well we must have left home around 11h00 to 11h30'mmm'
DC1485'And did you go on foot or by car'
CT'No, we had to drive there.
DC1485'How long did the journey take'
CT'Hum, it was not very long'it is in Lagos.
DC1485'It is in Lagos.
CT'Yes, from Luz to Lagos.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It must have been about 15 minutes.
DC1485'Okay. What was the restaurant called'
CT'Well, I do not remember the name (inaud'le) or something like that. It is located in the old part of the city and one goes climbing until the top (inaudible) yes. 'Esquitera' or something like that. I don't remember its proper name.
DC1485'It is a restaurant that serves fish'
CT'It is a restaurant that serves fish. It is very well known.
DC1485'On top of the hill'
CT'But it is not a tourist location; it is more for local people, more or less, but it is the best, mmm, and it is not refined. The tables are made of wood with oilcloth and the fish, you know... it is wonderful.
DC1485--Yes.
CT'But I cannot remember the name it is (inaudible) or something like that.
DC1485'Okay.
DC1485'Did you go to the Tapas Bar with your aunt'
CT'No, no, no it was not there when I visited the last time, and it is something very recent; I believe that it was built about a year ago and I was there before the Tapas Bar was constructed. I think it was a part of the reception or something similar. We were not there before. It is very new.
DC1485'And the courts, did you visit the tennis courts'
CT'No, we do not play tennis and we did not swim in the pool.
DC1485'You did not use the pool'
CT'No.
DC1485'And the cr'he'did you go to the cr'he zone where the children were'
CT'No, I would not go to the cr'he as there was no reason to.
DC1485'Okay. How many times were you there exactly'
CT'Hum... in Portugal or in Luz'
DC1485'Okay, in this resort'
CT'A few times, perhaps three; the first time was when my aunt moved in 2003 or 2004 and after that for a week. My brother dies in 2003 and I remember that my uncle, Aunt Pamela's husband, died in June of 2003. As there were four deaths in our family in the first four months of that year, the time of her move has stayed in my memory.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And, she was very upset with all of it, and I was trying to help her cope along with dealing with my twin brother's death. For this reason, I went to visit her for a week in February in 2004. It was my first time in that place but we had already been in Luz before that when we went to Portugal as tourists. After that, we went a second time with my husband and stayed in (inaudible) a small fishing village about 10 minutes from Luz. We have already been in Portugal many times, but to visit Luz only three times.
DC1485'Okay. When you were there how was the temperature'
CT'It was good, sunny and hot. At times it was necessary to use a sweater but during the day it was marvellous. Besides this, it was fresh and but very agreeable.
CT'I believe it rained one day; it was a bit windy, besides this... it was wonderful weather ' not for sun bathing, even though there were people doing just this but it was not really sun bathing weather.
DC1485'The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.
CT'Outline'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Oh my God.
DC1485'You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace'
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'This, this is a map, it only covers the Luz area and he have here, if you can imagine, or even see exactly, the block of apartments.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And here is the pool.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Here is the Tapas Bar and restaurant.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Here is the tennis court.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Right here.
DC1485'This is rua estreita.
CT'That is rua estreita.
DC1485'The passageway, right.
DC1485'Point me to the direction from which the individual came.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And if you could show me in the way a camera captures an image. From, from which apartment did he leave and to where did he go and where were you'
CT'In my aunt's, in the apartment of my aunt in the corner to the top.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Look to the bottom where you were looking, if you want. You were looking to the bottom to the right and downwards, but this is not towards the lower apartment but is actually slightly to the right and there is her veranda and finally, here on top, for I would say that here there is a small gate'for this reason it was not this apartment in the end, that is what I wanted to say, you know'
CT'It was not the last one, yes, it was not exactly the last of the street.
DC1485'No, it was not the first gate.
CT'Of the interior.
CT'Where, if you have access.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'From there, there is a gate. It was not this gate, it was'when you leave the rua estreita, is it the very first gate you see.
DC1485'How many gates are there in total'
CT'I think that all of them have small gates.
DC1485'I am looking.
CT'Yes, as I recall or think, but I believe they are for all people. I am not certain because I never saw the lower apartments having access to the others, no. For this reason, he was leaving and after looked from side to side and continued walking on the street. I did not see in which direction he left, and it is here that I think I saw him, but it is not possible for someone to leave from this gate.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Or perhaps it is here from which the people or'perhaps I did not notice that there was another small gate.
DC1485'Oh, I am seeing it.
CT'I thought that there was only this gate.
DC1485'Thus, here lies the confusion' to clarify things.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'It is not exactly the principal gate because, as you noted, the ultimate apartment is where the McCann's were lodged.
CT'Well I did not know. As you know I was on the top.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And so it is clear, it was not this apartment from which I was looking.
DC1485'Your aunt's apartment is exactly on top'
CT'Yes, it is directly on top.
DC1485'But it is two floors up'
CT'It is the last one, yes.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Well then, I was looking to the first gate at the end of the alley.
DC1485'Yes, yes.
CT'It was there that I saw the person leave.
DC1485'Okay, and your direction was this way, following the passageway or to the other direction towards the shrubs'
CT'No, it was towards the gate.
DC1485'In the inside.
CT'Yes, because humm... it must be, there are shrubs and there is no gate there.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'As far as I know.
DC1485'Okay, yes.
CT'I did not, I do not remember any gates. I believe that you have to go up and around, or to go through a different passage, or something like this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I was never exactly in the area below but I do know that it was this locale, humm... and I told my husband, I should tell him this. I had no idea that it was this was the apartment they stayed. I only knew that which I saw and I was not wasting time. (inaudible)
DC1485'No, not in any way. We only want to clarify everything.
CT'It is only that gate, that is the only one.
DC1485'Would you mind making me an outline, please'
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:21
continued....
T'Sure.
DC1485'If you would, if you make it, if you could make the same one as this block here.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And after, please mark an X in the location where you saw this man leaving.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And after where, where is the gate in relation to the area from where he left.
CT'So, here is the block, okay, then the veranda of my aunt and here on top.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I am looking forward, here in the bottom is a small gate and here is the rua estreita. There is the rua estreita and there are shrubs here and here, the small gates, they are all like this and you climb some steps or can enter from the right, I believe, to enter the apartment. Thus I am looking more or less upwards to downwards and he left from here' the first gate you reach. I did not know of this one here, I did not know of this one.
DC1485'Ah ah.
CT'What I know is that this is the gate and this is what I thought.
DC1485'And can you tell me if he came out of an apartment or was simply exiting the complex'
CT'He was leaving, he was exiting.
DC1485'From an apartment'
CT'I did not see him leave an apartment. I only saw him leave from the gate.
DC1485'Did the gate give direct access to the apartment'
CT'But he was, yes... mmm... no, not at the last apartment.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I suppose there is another apartment.
DC1485'Okay. I am seeing it.
CT' According to what I saw below, it happened here, it could have been the last apartment.
DC1485'In your opinion, is it possible that he was leaving his apartment, next to the last apartment'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'This, this is just to say'
CT'Probably, oh it is right to say this because I would hate to state that he was; he may not have been leaving because that past one was a different entrance.
Dc1485'Yes, okay.
CT'A different entrance as a whole, the site closest to that row, the first door must have been next to the stairs.
DC1485'Yes and after you saw him leave, what happened'
CT'Well, he opened the gate from inside and made so he did not make any noise, I only'it was what made me feel strange about it. He did this all very quietly, as if... you know, when a gate creeks, but he ensured that it did not make noise, it could have been (inaudible)
DC1485'With caution'
CT'Yes, simply ensuring that it did not bang, and I know some people who enter without banging the doorafter they enter, so this was very cautious, very careful, and for this reason, only this reason, I called you.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It looked as though he was leaving, he closed it with both his hands, many times, closing it in silence and cautiously with both hands and he looked lastly this way downwards, first to this side.
DC1485'So what you are saying is that he looked first in your direction' He looked to you, but he was not positioned. This way
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Then he looked to the left.
CT'Oh I see.
DC1485'And after he cautiously and slowly pushed it and afterwards looked to the right, and continued walking.
CT'And he'the direction he took was to the street.
DC1485'He then went in this direction to the street, here, this street.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Along here in this direction towards the supermarket.
CT'Yes. But I do not know if he went in that direction or in this direction.
DC1485'(inaudible)
CT'Walking this way upwards and I then turned to my aunt and my husband.
DC1485'Then on your map, where do you believe you saw him for the last time'
CT'At the exterior of the gate. He was closing it.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And moving there in an upwards direction.
DC1485'Yes, then, the last location at which you saw him, he would have been, would it be possible that the last time you saw him, he was passing the apartments in direction of the street'
CT'No, I only saw him walking and I did not see him on the rua estreita for when I turned to speak with my family, he was, he was probably always at the the top of the street, and.
DC1485'Okay. I am not here to put words in your mouth, or ideas in your head Carole, but it is possible that the last time you saw him he was only passing through, as I have already indicated from the location of the McCann apartment. The last time you saw him was passing by the McCann apartment then'
CT'Possibly, possibly, yes, I only know that I did not see him turn to the right or the left. I did not look more after he passed the gate. I only know the direction in which he went. He simply went in this direction, in that direction.
DC1485'Then Mrs. Tranmer, what happened first, did you lose sight of him or did he disappear from your line if sight'
CT'No, I lost sight of him.
DC1485'So you turned'
CT'I simply turned away.
DC1485'You turned'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'With your back to him'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Then before you turned, he was still visible'
CT'He was still visible.
DC1485'And you as well.
CT'When I turned, it was obvious he was heading somewhere. I only know that he was headed in that direction.
DC1485'Very good, okay.
CT'Then, I turned like this and he disappeared.
DC1485'This is great, it is great, it is clear, okay. I am going to now try to ask a serues of questions that the Portuguese police would like to ask you, okay'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Perhaps you have already answered before but what I want you to do, it to respond with as much detail possible. Good, the first questions is ' do you attest to you statement given to the British police in May of two thousand'eight of may of 2007. Do you attest to the statement that was made on this day to the police, the same statement that I showed you on the 8th of May'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'This statement is yours'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'I will only, it is not necessary to read, but I am going to show you as it is necessary to confirm your statement and that it is your statement.
CT'It appears to be, yes.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, thank you, and the only anomaly is the incorrect date.
CT'The date, the date is definitely wrong.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We had arrived on the 28th or the 29th of...
DC1485'April.
CT'April, yes. It was in April and not in May.
DC1485'Well, I am going to help you refresh your memory anew and back to when this individual appeared.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'You have already stated that is was on Thursday because this was the day you visited your aunt.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And at what time, I need to come to a definitive time with the hours.
CT'Okay, mmm, mmm.
DC1485'What do you think, it was not after the... and it was not before the'
CT'No it was not late.
DC1485'I assume that I was there, I was there between...we were there around 11, 10 or 11. We took my aunt, we must have left around 11h30, a quarter to noon, and in order to go to the restaurant. Now it may have been a bit early. We had a coffee before we left and really strange to me is the feeling that it could have happened then'I feel that it was when we returned and were drinking coffee.
DC1485'Then you mentioned previously, you said before that you left around 6h30.
CT'Yes, we left.
DC1485'So, let us recap.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'How much time.
CT'We were there around, we returned from lunch around 3h00 or 3h30, and we were there from 3h30 until 6h30. I know that it was 6h30.
DC1485'Then for a total of three hours, and there were (inaudible) for three hours, yes'
CT'It was minimum of three hours, yes, because we were talking and I had the sensation that we were longer than in the morning, and therefore, it was in these three hours when I saw him and was looking from the veranda. I know that it will look horrible because it will only confuse everyone, but if I were to state that it occurred during the morning. I am still not sure it was the morning or the afternoon. I only know that we were together on the terrace.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But the truth is that I cannot. I am trying my hardest to tell you if it was morning or evening.
DC1485'Good, you left around 8h30, sorry, 6h30.
CT'Yes, we left.
T'Sure.
DC1485'If you would, if you make it, if you could make the same one as this block here.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And after, please mark an X in the location where you saw this man leaving.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And after where, where is the gate in relation to the area from where he left.
CT'So, here is the block, okay, then the veranda of my aunt and here on top.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I am looking forward, here in the bottom is a small gate and here is the rua estreita. There is the rua estreita and there are shrubs here and here, the small gates, they are all like this and you climb some steps or can enter from the right, I believe, to enter the apartment. Thus I am looking more or less upwards to downwards and he left from here' the first gate you reach. I did not know of this one here, I did not know of this one.
DC1485'Ah ah.
CT'What I know is that this is the gate and this is what I thought.
DC1485'And can you tell me if he came out of an apartment or was simply exiting the complex'
CT'He was leaving, he was exiting.
DC1485'From an apartment'
CT'I did not see him leave an apartment. I only saw him leave from the gate.
DC1485'Did the gate give direct access to the apartment'
CT'But he was, yes... mmm... no, not at the last apartment.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I suppose there is another apartment.
DC1485'Okay. I am seeing it.
CT' According to what I saw below, it happened here, it could have been the last apartment.
DC1485'In your opinion, is it possible that he was leaving his apartment, next to the last apartment'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'This, this is just to say'
CT'Probably, oh it is right to say this because I would hate to state that he was; he may not have been leaving because that past one was a different entrance.
Dc1485'Yes, okay.
CT'A different entrance as a whole, the site closest to that row, the first door must have been next to the stairs.
DC1485'Yes and after you saw him leave, what happened'
CT'Well, he opened the gate from inside and made so he did not make any noise, I only'it was what made me feel strange about it. He did this all very quietly, as if... you know, when a gate creeks, but he ensured that it did not make noise, it could have been (inaudible)
DC1485'With caution'
CT'Yes, simply ensuring that it did not bang, and I know some people who enter without banging the doorafter they enter, so this was very cautious, very careful, and for this reason, only this reason, I called you.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It looked as though he was leaving, he closed it with both his hands, many times, closing it in silence and cautiously with both hands and he looked lastly this way downwards, first to this side.
DC1485'So what you are saying is that he looked first in your direction' He looked to you, but he was not positioned. This way
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Then he looked to the left.
CT'Oh I see.
DC1485'And after he cautiously and slowly pushed it and afterwards looked to the right, and continued walking.
CT'And he'the direction he took was to the street.
DC1485'He then went in this direction to the street, here, this street.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Along here in this direction towards the supermarket.
CT'Yes. But I do not know if he went in that direction or in this direction.
DC1485'(inaudible)
CT'Walking this way upwards and I then turned to my aunt and my husband.
DC1485'Then on your map, where do you believe you saw him for the last time'
CT'At the exterior of the gate. He was closing it.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And moving there in an upwards direction.
DC1485'Yes, then, the last location at which you saw him, he would have been, would it be possible that the last time you saw him, he was passing the apartments in direction of the street'
CT'No, I only saw him walking and I did not see him on the rua estreita for when I turned to speak with my family, he was, he was probably always at the the top of the street, and.
DC1485'Okay. I am not here to put words in your mouth, or ideas in your head Carole, but it is possible that the last time you saw him he was only passing through, as I have already indicated from the location of the McCann apartment. The last time you saw him was passing by the McCann apartment then'
CT'Possibly, possibly, yes, I only know that I did not see him turn to the right or the left. I did not look more after he passed the gate. I only know the direction in which he went. He simply went in this direction, in that direction.
DC1485'Then Mrs. Tranmer, what happened first, did you lose sight of him or did he disappear from your line if sight'
CT'No, I lost sight of him.
DC1485'So you turned'
CT'I simply turned away.
DC1485'You turned'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'With your back to him'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Then before you turned, he was still visible'
CT'He was still visible.
DC1485'And you as well.
CT'When I turned, it was obvious he was heading somewhere. I only know that he was headed in that direction.
DC1485'Very good, okay.
CT'Then, I turned like this and he disappeared.
DC1485'This is great, it is great, it is clear, okay. I am going to now try to ask a serues of questions that the Portuguese police would like to ask you, okay'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Perhaps you have already answered before but what I want you to do, it to respond with as much detail possible. Good, the first questions is ' do you attest to you statement given to the British police in May of two thousand'eight of may of 2007. Do you attest to the statement that was made on this day to the police, the same statement that I showed you on the 8th of May'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'This statement is yours'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'I will only, it is not necessary to read, but I am going to show you as it is necessary to confirm your statement and that it is your statement.
CT'It appears to be, yes.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, thank you, and the only anomaly is the incorrect date.
CT'The date, the date is definitely wrong.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'We had arrived on the 28th or the 29th of...
DC1485'April.
CT'April, yes. It was in April and not in May.
DC1485'Well, I am going to help you refresh your memory anew and back to when this individual appeared.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'You have already stated that is was on Thursday because this was the day you visited your aunt.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And at what time, I need to come to a definitive time with the hours.
CT'Okay, mmm, mmm.
DC1485'What do you think, it was not after the... and it was not before the'
CT'No it was not late.
DC1485'I assume that I was there, I was there between...we were there around 11, 10 or 11. We took my aunt, we must have left around 11h30, a quarter to noon, and in order to go to the restaurant. Now it may have been a bit early. We had a coffee before we left and really strange to me is the feeling that it could have happened then'I feel that it was when we returned and were drinking coffee.
DC1485'Then you mentioned previously, you said before that you left around 6h30.
CT'Yes, we left.
DC1485'So, let us recap.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'How much time.
CT'We were there around, we returned from lunch around 3h00 or 3h30, and we were there from 3h30 until 6h30. I know that it was 6h30.
DC1485'Then for a total of three hours, and there were (inaudible) for three hours, yes'
CT'It was minimum of three hours, yes, because we were talking and I had the sensation that we were longer than in the morning, and therefore, it was in these three hours when I saw him and was looking from the veranda. I know that it will look horrible because it will only confuse everyone, but if I were to state that it occurred during the morning. I am still not sure it was the morning or the afternoon. I only know that we were together on the terrace.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But the truth is that I cannot. I am trying my hardest to tell you if it was morning or evening.
DC1485'Good, you left around 8h30, sorry, 6h30.
CT'Yes, we left.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:24
CAROLE TRANMER STATEMENT - PART II - CONTINUED
DC1485'What time before this did you see the individual'
CT'It must have happened, I do not want to guess, I cannot...it was during the time we were on the terrace, between three and three-thirty until six, when we returned to the apartment, five-thirty or six because it was cooling down, thus, it was in the afternoon, and I hate to do this, excuse me but it was on'
DC1485'It does not matter that you are trying to guess, it does not matter that you guess.
CT'If it was in the afternoon, somewhere three, three-thirty and five-thirty, because the sun was going down and it was getting colder.
DC1485'Well.
CT'Well, I am certain that we were on the terrace between 3:00/3:30 until 5:30 on Thursday afternoon.
DC1485'Well, we have already been at this for one hour and have made good progress. We are moving along very well. It is very difficult.
CT'Yes it is.
DC1483'I know.
DC1485'You were there two hours.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'3:30 to 5:30.
CT'Yes and if this did occur in the morning, okay, it would be between'we would have gotten there around 11, 10:30 or 11 and left around 11-ish, 11:45.
DC1485'To go to the restaurant.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, I think I am happy that you saw this individual in the afternoon.
CT'Yes, I, I have the feeling that it was in the afternoon.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And it is not just because I say so but, because we had spent more time relaxing; they were talking, and we had already eaten lunch and were sitting and relaxing and well, I am nearly certain. But as you know there was that period in the morning.
DC1485'Did anyone visit your apartment'
CT'When we were there' No, no.
DC1485'No, okay.
CT'I am sorry that'
DC1485'So our window is between'
CT'3, 3:30.
DC1485'3:30.
CT'Until 5:30.
DC1485'And if I were to give you hints, because you could ask yourself this, was it at the beginning of your stay, close to 3:30'
CT'Definitive at the beginning because there was a lot of light, yes.
DC1485'More, more than 5:30'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Well think, think about the possibility of 3:30, would you say 4:30'
CT'4:30, yes.
DC1485'Well, given the window of between 3:30 and 4:30'
CT'Yes. I suppose so. It is only a guess.
DC1485'Yes, it is great, yes, yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me that you were on your aunt's terrace'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Okay, and what is there on the terrace'
CT'Well, there is a table, a sun umbrella, some chairs and potted plants and very little else; a part of the terrace is bigger than the other with the end part longer, more or less. The part where we sat was covered and has a big enough space for six people to sit, but I, I know that I was standing on the veranda when I looked down. I was not looking in this way, I was only snooping to see what was going on below. It was simply a look as follows, for this reason, I was looking below and was not properly'I cannot, I could not see very well.
DC1485'Then it was not a specific look below, we will call it a glance.
CT'Yes, yes, it is very difficult to see below. One only had a general view.
DC1485'Then was it necessary to look more furtively'
CT'No.
DC1485'Okay, your path was like this, when you were in the apartment and walked out, can you see the direction on the terrace.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'How much time to get there from you room'
CT'Hum... we can there with a few steps.
DC1485'Sorry'
CT'So, it is visible if we are seated on''
DC1485'From the door or from where'
CT'From, humm... the door no because he was looking more from the side.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'So leaving the apartment one must get up but if one is seated on the terrace.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'And if sitting next to the terrace wall.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Can you see, is it possible for people to pass through the top and below'
CT'You can see this outside.
DC1485'Absolutely, yes.
CT'Absolutely, yes.
DC1485'Very good, sure.
CT'People would come and go.
DC1485'I can see.
CT'So you can see what is happening at the top of and at the bottom of the street.
DC1485'Okay. To jog your memory to remember the topic of conversation, I mean, you confirmed that the individual called your attention but after that you turned to speak with your husband. Can you remember what you said to your husband'
CT'Well, there are always talking about the European Union, for this reason, they always have discussions about who is a member of the European Union and who is leading; these two talk a lot about politics and speak, speak and after I turned to get into the conversation as well.
CT'Because they always have open discussions, nice discussions but ...
DC1485'Nothing that comes to memory'
CT'Well, you know'he works, he is contracted by the European Union and is always saying that when he leaves working for them, he has a big book to write, yes'
DC1485'Was this individual accompanied by anyone'
CT'No, he was alone.
DC1485'Okay, the next thing is the description, this will be difficult for you, I know, but try and remember as much as possible even if they are details that may appear... ohh. Assume that I know nothing.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC14850'Okay'
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Presuppose that I have just entered this investigation, that I do not know about your previous statement; that I know nothing about this individual.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Where should we start.
CT'At the head.
DC1485'the head.
CT'Because it was what I saw first.
DC1485'yes.
CT'Humm... he was blonde, with a lot of hair, very short, not like mine but a little more, humm... but not like a footballer, do you know what I mean' A style close to shaven. Very short, blonde, the head was very sculptured. The shape of the head was very sculptured, more oval shaped.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And, humm... then I believe I saw him wearing a blue-grey T-shirt, it was not dark blue, more of a pallid colour and it was, humm... a type of blue with short sleeves, humm... but I did not see anything below, I did not see the trousers or shoes or anything else, only the top part and he would have, I would say'humm, when looking from above, he was not short, I would say he was about a 1'78, about medium height. He was not thing nor was he muscular. So he was of average stature. I would say he was European but not Portuguese. He was not dark and, he was not short, but I would say that he looked Scandinavian if you will, because he was very light and could have been British or Scandinavian. Even though I was looking upwards, he had big eyes, there is nothing else. He did not have tattoos, nothing like this, humm'a person of common appearance, it was his furtiveness that called my attention, humm, no, I can't'
DC1485'Could you give him an age'
CT'Yes, I believe so, I would say that he was between, oh he was not old, 30 to 35, I don't believe that he was older than this.
DC1485'And his aspect'
CT'It was clear, he was light-skinned, he had no freckles, he was not sunburned, he was not dark, nor bronzed from the sun, he was a light colour, not white, white but you know'humm..he was not one who was exposed to the sun.
DC1485'And when he walked, did he have any particular walk or limp'
CT'No, I never really noticed his gait as I only saw him leave the gate. He did not appear incapacitated, hum' he was merely ordinary looking, I did not really look at his walk.
DC1485'You told me he did not have tattoos; was he wearing any jewellery'
CT'No, I did not see any jewellery, no, no he did not have necklaces or rings and as far as I could tell, he did not have earrings.
DC1485'And his T-shirt, you spoke to me about his T-shirt, did it have an inscription'
CT'No, it was a common shirt, without inscriptions, it was light blue in colour, or grey, it could have been grey, mmm.
DC1485'And the T-shirt, did it have buttons or was it simply something that went up to the neck'
CT'No, it went up to the neck and had sleeves, short sleeves, but not straps, of this type, just short sleeves.
DC1485'Yes, and was it loose-fitting'
CT'No it was not snug, it was not loose, it was comfortable.
DC1485'Did it fit him loosely'
CT'It was big but not by much.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It was simply common, the type of T-shirt one wears on Saturday.
DC1485'Yes, yes.
CT'With inscriptions or anything in general, mmm.
DC'And he was well-shaven'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Yes without a beard or did you notice anything else'
CT'No, nothing from what I remember, because he was very blonde.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But if he had a beard, I would have seen it.
DC1485'Spectacles'
CT'No, he did not have sunglasses, nor did he wear spectacles.
DC1485'He did not use sunglasses'
CT'No.
DC1485'What time before this did you see the individual'
CT'It must have happened, I do not want to guess, I cannot...it was during the time we were on the terrace, between three and three-thirty until six, when we returned to the apartment, five-thirty or six because it was cooling down, thus, it was in the afternoon, and I hate to do this, excuse me but it was on'
DC1485'It does not matter that you are trying to guess, it does not matter that you guess.
CT'If it was in the afternoon, somewhere three, three-thirty and five-thirty, because the sun was going down and it was getting colder.
DC1485'Well.
CT'Well, I am certain that we were on the terrace between 3:00/3:30 until 5:30 on Thursday afternoon.
DC1485'Well, we have already been at this for one hour and have made good progress. We are moving along very well. It is very difficult.
CT'Yes it is.
DC1483'I know.
DC1485'You were there two hours.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'3:30 to 5:30.
CT'Yes and if this did occur in the morning, okay, it would be between'we would have gotten there around 11, 10:30 or 11 and left around 11-ish, 11:45.
DC1485'To go to the restaurant.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, I think I am happy that you saw this individual in the afternoon.
CT'Yes, I, I have the feeling that it was in the afternoon.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And it is not just because I say so but, because we had spent more time relaxing; they were talking, and we had already eaten lunch and were sitting and relaxing and well, I am nearly certain. But as you know there was that period in the morning.
DC1485'Did anyone visit your apartment'
CT'When we were there' No, no.
DC1485'No, okay.
CT'I am sorry that'
DC1485'So our window is between'
CT'3, 3:30.
DC1485'3:30.
CT'Until 5:30.
DC1485'And if I were to give you hints, because you could ask yourself this, was it at the beginning of your stay, close to 3:30'
CT'Definitive at the beginning because there was a lot of light, yes.
DC1485'More, more than 5:30'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Well think, think about the possibility of 3:30, would you say 4:30'
CT'4:30, yes.
DC1485'Well, given the window of between 3:30 and 4:30'
CT'Yes. I suppose so. It is only a guess.
DC1485'Yes, it is great, yes, yes.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me that you were on your aunt's terrace'
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'Okay, and what is there on the terrace'
CT'Well, there is a table, a sun umbrella, some chairs and potted plants and very little else; a part of the terrace is bigger than the other with the end part longer, more or less. The part where we sat was covered and has a big enough space for six people to sit, but I, I know that I was standing on the veranda when I looked down. I was not looking in this way, I was only snooping to see what was going on below. It was simply a look as follows, for this reason, I was looking below and was not properly'I cannot, I could not see very well.
DC1485'Then it was not a specific look below, we will call it a glance.
CT'Yes, yes, it is very difficult to see below. One only had a general view.
DC1485'Then was it necessary to look more furtively'
CT'No.
DC1485'Okay, your path was like this, when you were in the apartment and walked out, can you see the direction on the terrace.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'How much time to get there from you room'
CT'Hum... we can there with a few steps.
DC1485'Sorry'
CT'So, it is visible if we are seated on''
DC1485'From the door or from where'
CT'From, humm... the door no because he was looking more from the side.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'So leaving the apartment one must get up but if one is seated on the terrace.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'And if sitting next to the terrace wall.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Can you see, is it possible for people to pass through the top and below'
CT'You can see this outside.
DC1485'Absolutely, yes.
CT'Absolutely, yes.
DC1485'Very good, sure.
CT'People would come and go.
DC1485'I can see.
CT'So you can see what is happening at the top of and at the bottom of the street.
DC1485'Okay. To jog your memory to remember the topic of conversation, I mean, you confirmed that the individual called your attention but after that you turned to speak with your husband. Can you remember what you said to your husband'
CT'Well, there are always talking about the European Union, for this reason, they always have discussions about who is a member of the European Union and who is leading; these two talk a lot about politics and speak, speak and after I turned to get into the conversation as well.
CT'Because they always have open discussions, nice discussions but ...
DC1485'Nothing that comes to memory'
CT'Well, you know'he works, he is contracted by the European Union and is always saying that when he leaves working for them, he has a big book to write, yes'
DC1485'Was this individual accompanied by anyone'
CT'No, he was alone.
DC1485'Okay, the next thing is the description, this will be difficult for you, I know, but try and remember as much as possible even if they are details that may appear... ohh. Assume that I know nothing.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC14850'Okay'
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Presuppose that I have just entered this investigation, that I do not know about your previous statement; that I know nothing about this individual.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Where should we start.
CT'At the head.
DC1485'the head.
CT'Because it was what I saw first.
DC1485'yes.
CT'Humm... he was blonde, with a lot of hair, very short, not like mine but a little more, humm... but not like a footballer, do you know what I mean' A style close to shaven. Very short, blonde, the head was very sculptured. The shape of the head was very sculptured, more oval shaped.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And, humm... then I believe I saw him wearing a blue-grey T-shirt, it was not dark blue, more of a pallid colour and it was, humm... a type of blue with short sleeves, humm... but I did not see anything below, I did not see the trousers or shoes or anything else, only the top part and he would have, I would say'humm, when looking from above, he was not short, I would say he was about a 1'78, about medium height. He was not thing nor was he muscular. So he was of average stature. I would say he was European but not Portuguese. He was not dark and, he was not short, but I would say that he looked Scandinavian if you will, because he was very light and could have been British or Scandinavian. Even though I was looking upwards, he had big eyes, there is nothing else. He did not have tattoos, nothing like this, humm'a person of common appearance, it was his furtiveness that called my attention, humm, no, I can't'
DC1485'Could you give him an age'
CT'Yes, I believe so, I would say that he was between, oh he was not old, 30 to 35, I don't believe that he was older than this.
DC1485'And his aspect'
CT'It was clear, he was light-skinned, he had no freckles, he was not sunburned, he was not dark, nor bronzed from the sun, he was a light colour, not white, white but you know'humm..he was not one who was exposed to the sun.
DC1485'And when he walked, did he have any particular walk or limp'
CT'No, I never really noticed his gait as I only saw him leave the gate. He did not appear incapacitated, hum' he was merely ordinary looking, I did not really look at his walk.
DC1485'You told me he did not have tattoos; was he wearing any jewellery'
CT'No, I did not see any jewellery, no, no he did not have necklaces or rings and as far as I could tell, he did not have earrings.
DC1485'And his T-shirt, you spoke to me about his T-shirt, did it have an inscription'
CT'No, it was a common shirt, without inscriptions, it was light blue in colour, or grey, it could have been grey, mmm.
DC1485'And the T-shirt, did it have buttons or was it simply something that went up to the neck'
CT'No, it went up to the neck and had sleeves, short sleeves, but not straps, of this type, just short sleeves.
DC1485'Yes, and was it loose-fitting'
CT'No it was not snug, it was not loose, it was comfortable.
DC1485'Did it fit him loosely'
CT'It was big but not by much.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It was simply common, the type of T-shirt one wears on Saturday.
DC1485'Yes, yes.
CT'With inscriptions or anything in general, mmm.
DC'And he was well-shaven'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Yes without a beard or did you notice anything else'
CT'No, nothing from what I remember, because he was very blonde.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But if he had a beard, I would have seen it.
DC1485'Spectacles'
CT'No, he did not have sunglasses, nor did he wear spectacles.
DC1485'He did not use sunglasses'
CT'No.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:25
continued....
DC1485'Okay, and for how long did you think you saw him'
CT'Well, humm... the time it takes to leave, shut the gate, look to the side, look to that side, a few seconds because he did not take very long to do this, I would say that it was for a minute or something like that.
DC1485'And I know that you pointed to the map, as you know, that you were on the third floor and he was here, this is, rua estreita, as you revelead'
CT'No, no it appears, humm... it is simply long, because the apartments on the first level jut out a bit, the veranda belongs to my aunt.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Therefore, when I say that I am looking below, it is only really looking below...
DC1485'And how, what is your opinion; are you good at measuring distances'
CT'If am am good in measuring distances, recollecting faces, mmm'very good. Are you talking measurements in metres, yards or in feet'
DC1485'Humm, in feet.
DC1485'Please continue.
CT'From where, where I stood'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Okay, I would then say, humm, close to the roof.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It would be the measurement of one double-decker bus which, which is the measurement of a double-decker bus.
DC1485'You refer to the top of the double-decker, the double-decker until the end'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'I though you said that you were capable of being precise.
CT'Well, it is difficult, isn't it'
DC1485'Have you looked here to outside'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Is it roughly the same height'
CT'Humm, yes, but two, two floors up.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Two floors and a bit upwards.
DC1485'Are the apartments have high ceilings or low-ceilings'
CT'Humm, no... they are higher than this.
DC1485'They are higher than this.
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Or it could be, we are speaking, if I told you 30 metres, twenty meters, thirty metres, 40 metres, which do uou think it would be'
DC1485'Feet and inches
CT'Ahh... feet, if I told you, then, I would from top to bottom it was about' I don't know, 20 feet.
DC1485'Yes, because there we were also on the top of a hill.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus 20, 30 feet for sure, I would that it was around this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Because we were also on a hill. But on the rua estreita I don't think there is a relief.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'And the temperature, you told me that the temperature was cold but it was sunny on this day or were you covered.
CT'It was sunny, but... humm... it cooled down at night, hummm, I believe it was sunny, mmm.
DC1485'It seems to me that you would recognise this individual were you to see him again'
CT'Yes, I would recognize him. Don't ask me why but I know that I would.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me, when we were speaking of his behaviour, you told me that he left and shut the gate very slowly after himself, that he had to turn. With both his hands.
CT'With both hands.
DC1485'He turned and pulled the gate, he pulled or pushed the gate closed'
CT'Humm... he pulled it.
DC1485'Because it opens from the inside'
CT'It opens from the inside.
DC1485'Yes, then when you saw him leave, he had to pull the gate in his direction.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me that he was doing this stealthily, what do you mean by stealthily'
CT'Stealth, humm... someone who would draw my attention, you know, the normal way of entering and exiting a gate, one opens the gate and just leaves, but he did this as though he wanted to make the minimum amount of noise, that is stealthily, and as if, he did not want anyone to know that he was coming or going.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This was very, very unusual and it was this that stayed in my memory.
DC1485'This was the photo-sketch that you reproduced'
CT'No, he did not use spectacles, but he did have this type of hair.
DC1485'Yes, I was intrigued that the reason for his sunglasses.
CT'He did not have sunglasses, he did not use spectacles and his mouth was not like this, and his nose was not like this, it is not the same person.
DC1485'Then you are telling me that this is not the photo-fit that you made'
CT'No.
DC1485'No.
CT'Because he has glasses, he did not use glasses.
Dc1485'No, but the hair is the same'
CT'The hair is right. More or less.
DC1485'I know that the image is not very good.
CT'And it appears that he has something on his chin that he did not have, humm, but the format is similar, he certainly did not use glasses, and his mouth was different.
DC1485'Okay, but the top of his...
CT'The top, his head is...
DC1485'The same.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'The format of the face is the same, the format of the mouth is the same'
CT'Well, he had a long face.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Yes, this, this you know.
DC1485'But this is not it, this is not your photo-sketch.
CT'No, certainly it is not.
DC1485'No, it is not... okay. And the name Tasmin.
CT'Is this what they sent'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This I made'
DC1485'Well, do you remember the name of the person who made the photo with you'
CT'No, a young person, humm...
DCc1485'Male'
CT'Yes, male, a young man, hummm.
DC1485'Tasmin, does that have any significance for you'
CT'No.
DC1485'No.
CT'From Reading.
DC1485'Yes, from Reading.
CT'I signed something, he had a CD and did everything on computer.
DC1485'Okay, sure.
CT'But this, this is not like the one he did.
DC1485'Well, there must be some confusion. I would like to finally ask you regarding your aunt, Pamela FENN.
CT'Pamela FENN, mmm
DC1485'Speak to me about her.
CT'Humm, of what' Her age or her type of lifestyle'
DC1485'Yes... where she used to live, you told me that she moved there in 2003'
CT'No, no ,no, she moved there around a good 20 or 30 years ago.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Together, my aunt and uncle used to live in Stratfield Saye.
DC1485'Where'
CT'Stratfield Saye which is in Berkshire, the border with Surrey and when they sold the house they moved to Portugal. He designed and constructed a villa, not exactly in Lagos, but in the immediate vicinity. They bought the land and lived there happily for many years until he got ill with Alzheimer and for the last 10 years, it was she who took care of him with the exception of the last 18 months when he spent his time in a facility. When he died, she bought this apartment, and she lives their practically alone and the family, as you know, we visit her with frequency and she (sorry) goes many times to the U.K. She has three children, all married who also have children. She therefore has grandchildren, but she likes Portugal, she likes the climate, she is happy there, she has friends, and humm... she would never return here unless she had no choice (inaudible), there is not more to add.
DC1485--So she still has family in England'
CT'Oh yes, the has three married children and many grandchildren.
DC1485'Where do they live'
CT'They'one lives in Sandhurst, he is a colonel and has been stationed in Belgrade for about 4 years, the other lives in Kent and owns a bar, and the other lives in London and is the manager of a marketing business. All of them, the one in Kent has three children, and the other has one child and they, N***is in Camberley and had two children. She had grandchildren. After this is me, I am her nieces and my sister, J*** lives in Guildford. For this reason we are spread out and she comes to spend the holidays and Christmas.
DC1485'Is there anybody in the family called (inaudible), any younger member called FENN'
CT'Yes, all of them. All of them are called FENN. They are all men, for this reason they are all FENN.
DC1485'They are all FENN.
CT'The whole family is called FENN.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'A series of FENN, yes
DC1485'And girls'
CT'No, she does not have girls.
DC1485'So there are no girls with the name FENN.
CT'Only by marriage.
DC1485'And the children.
CT'They are all FENNs.
DC1485'They are all FEN'S. What are their names'
CT'Well, there is'H*** and C**** FENN, they are married and have ***** and C***** who lives in Camberley in Sandhurst which is the military base, after there is S***** FENN and his wife N**** who have a daughter named M*****, for this reason, they are all FENNs. After this is I**** FENN who has an older son, no two boys... I am becoming confused, two daughters who are all FENNs and she will have a great-granddaughter this month, sorry, next month.
DC1485'Okay, and for how long did you think you saw him'
CT'Well, humm... the time it takes to leave, shut the gate, look to the side, look to that side, a few seconds because he did not take very long to do this, I would say that it was for a minute or something like that.
DC1485'And I know that you pointed to the map, as you know, that you were on the third floor and he was here, this is, rua estreita, as you revelead'
CT'No, no it appears, humm... it is simply long, because the apartments on the first level jut out a bit, the veranda belongs to my aunt.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Therefore, when I say that I am looking below, it is only really looking below...
DC1485'And how, what is your opinion; are you good at measuring distances'
CT'If am am good in measuring distances, recollecting faces, mmm'very good. Are you talking measurements in metres, yards or in feet'
DC1485'Humm, in feet.
DC1485'Please continue.
CT'From where, where I stood'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Okay, I would then say, humm, close to the roof.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'It would be the measurement of one double-decker bus which, which is the measurement of a double-decker bus.
DC1485'You refer to the top of the double-decker, the double-decker until the end'
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'I though you said that you were capable of being precise.
CT'Well, it is difficult, isn't it'
DC1485'Have you looked here to outside'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Is it roughly the same height'
CT'Humm, yes, but two, two floors up.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Two floors and a bit upwards.
DC1485'Are the apartments have high ceilings or low-ceilings'
CT'Humm, no... they are higher than this.
DC1485'They are higher than this.
CT'Yes, yes.
DC1485'Or it could be, we are speaking, if I told you 30 metres, twenty meters, thirty metres, 40 metres, which do uou think it would be'
DC1485'Feet and inches
CT'Ahh... feet, if I told you, then, I would from top to bottom it was about' I don't know, 20 feet.
DC1485'Yes, because there we were also on the top of a hill.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus 20, 30 feet for sure, I would that it was around this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Because we were also on a hill. But on the rua estreita I don't think there is a relief.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Mmm.
DC1485'And the temperature, you told me that the temperature was cold but it was sunny on this day or were you covered.
CT'It was sunny, but... humm... it cooled down at night, hummm, I believe it was sunny, mmm.
DC1485'It seems to me that you would recognise this individual were you to see him again'
CT'Yes, I would recognize him. Don't ask me why but I know that I would.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me, when we were speaking of his behaviour, you told me that he left and shut the gate very slowly after himself, that he had to turn. With both his hands.
CT'With both hands.
DC1485'He turned and pulled the gate, he pulled or pushed the gate closed'
CT'Humm... he pulled it.
DC1485'Because it opens from the inside'
CT'It opens from the inside.
DC1485'Yes, then when you saw him leave, he had to pull the gate in his direction.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Okay, and you told me that he was doing this stealthily, what do you mean by stealthily'
CT'Stealth, humm... someone who would draw my attention, you know, the normal way of entering and exiting a gate, one opens the gate and just leaves, but he did this as though he wanted to make the minimum amount of noise, that is stealthily, and as if, he did not want anyone to know that he was coming or going.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This was very, very unusual and it was this that stayed in my memory.
DC1485'This was the photo-sketch that you reproduced'
CT'No, he did not use spectacles, but he did have this type of hair.
DC1485'Yes, I was intrigued that the reason for his sunglasses.
CT'He did not have sunglasses, he did not use spectacles and his mouth was not like this, and his nose was not like this, it is not the same person.
DC1485'Then you are telling me that this is not the photo-fit that you made'
CT'No.
DC1485'No.
CT'Because he has glasses, he did not use glasses.
Dc1485'No, but the hair is the same'
CT'The hair is right. More or less.
DC1485'I know that the image is not very good.
CT'And it appears that he has something on his chin that he did not have, humm, but the format is similar, he certainly did not use glasses, and his mouth was different.
DC1485'Okay, but the top of his...
CT'The top, his head is...
DC1485'The same.
CT'Yes.
DC1485'The format of the face is the same, the format of the mouth is the same'
CT'Well, he had a long face.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Yes, this, this you know.
DC1485'But this is not it, this is not your photo-sketch.
CT'No, certainly it is not.
DC1485'No, it is not... okay. And the name Tasmin.
CT'Is this what they sent'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This I made'
DC1485'Well, do you remember the name of the person who made the photo with you'
CT'No, a young person, humm...
DCc1485'Male'
CT'Yes, male, a young man, hummm.
DC1485'Tasmin, does that have any significance for you'
CT'No.
DC1485'No.
CT'From Reading.
DC1485'Yes, from Reading.
CT'I signed something, he had a CD and did everything on computer.
DC1485'Okay, sure.
CT'But this, this is not like the one he did.
DC1485'Well, there must be some confusion. I would like to finally ask you regarding your aunt, Pamela FENN.
CT'Pamela FENN, mmm
DC1485'Speak to me about her.
CT'Humm, of what' Her age or her type of lifestyle'
DC1485'Yes... where she used to live, you told me that she moved there in 2003'
CT'No, no ,no, she moved there around a good 20 or 30 years ago.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Together, my aunt and uncle used to live in Stratfield Saye.
DC1485'Where'
CT'Stratfield Saye which is in Berkshire, the border with Surrey and when they sold the house they moved to Portugal. He designed and constructed a villa, not exactly in Lagos, but in the immediate vicinity. They bought the land and lived there happily for many years until he got ill with Alzheimer and for the last 10 years, it was she who took care of him with the exception of the last 18 months when he spent his time in a facility. When he died, she bought this apartment, and she lives their practically alone and the family, as you know, we visit her with frequency and she (sorry) goes many times to the U.K. She has three children, all married who also have children. She therefore has grandchildren, but she likes Portugal, she likes the climate, she is happy there, she has friends, and humm... she would never return here unless she had no choice (inaudible), there is not more to add.
DC1485--So she still has family in England'
CT'Oh yes, the has three married children and many grandchildren.
DC1485'Where do they live'
CT'They'one lives in Sandhurst, he is a colonel and has been stationed in Belgrade for about 4 years, the other lives in Kent and owns a bar, and the other lives in London and is the manager of a marketing business. All of them, the one in Kent has three children, and the other has one child and they, N***is in Camberley and had two children. She had grandchildren. After this is me, I am her nieces and my sister, J*** lives in Guildford. For this reason we are spread out and she comes to spend the holidays and Christmas.
DC1485'Is there anybody in the family called (inaudible), any younger member called FENN'
CT'Yes, all of them. All of them are called FENN. They are all men, for this reason they are all FENN.
DC1485'They are all FENN.
CT'The whole family is called FENN.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'A series of FENN, yes
DC1485'And girls'
CT'No, she does not have girls.
DC1485'So there are no girls with the name FENN.
CT'Only by marriage.
DC1485'And the children.
CT'They are all FENNs.
DC1485'They are all FEN'S. What are their names'
CT'Well, there is'H*** and C**** FENN, they are married and have ***** and C***** who lives in Camberley in Sandhurst which is the military base, after there is S***** FENN and his wife N**** who have a daughter named M*****, for this reason, they are all FENNs. After this is I**** FENN who has an older son, no two boys... I am becoming confused, two daughters who are all FENNs and she will have a great-granddaughter this month, sorry, next month.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 23.09.17 0:27
continued....
DC1485'A big family.
CT'Yes, a big family, humm... and her husband, my uncle's family was from Australia, but I believe that this is... mmm
DC1485'Okay. Finally Carole, I would like to go over with you the photos you brought with you, which you showed to me before the interview.
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'Please clarify for me, when these were taken, who took it, and...'
CT'Hum... okay, my husband and aunt hate taking photographs, for this reason he must have taken these, I know that they were taken on Sunday, a lovely sunny day where we were seated, as was usual, on the terrace. There are a number of people there.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'There is the pool, there is the overhang, which is not really an overhand but a wall.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'A wall with plants from a distance; like a passageway on the pavement which runs until the building.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This is similar to what one can see now, and the reception area with the roof.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And the people between I believe are many who work at the Ocean Club and who also live in the surrounding areas, also in the locale.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'That is it.
DC1485'If we select this photograph, I will show it to you, okay'
CT'This must be one of the better ones, If I may say so.
DC1485'This one shows you,
CT'This, this shows me looking down being curious, but this is not of the other apartment.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But below there is, humm...the terrace of the other apartment.
DC1485'Oh, that one... hummm. Where the McCanns stayed.
CT'I did not know, but it must have been, they had a type of patio below, but the one I was looking at, humm... was where the small gate was located which is almost to that side.
DC1485'That is the gate where you saw the individual.
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'Where you stood'
CT'Where I stood.
DC1485'I will (inaudible) see something. Image 50590 okay, that I what I will call it.
CT'Ah ah.
DC1485'Image 0590 is one of your pictures.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And you are looking below.
CT'And I am looking below.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And tell me where is the gate, in realtion ot the rest.
CT'Well, the gate is slightly more towards the front, 69 centimetres towards the front.
DC1485'To your right.
CT'To my right.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Right below where the McCanns stayed there is a small patio.
CT'Yes.
CT'But I did not see if they had a gate themselves.
CT'Okay. And after there is a small apartment below that has a small terrace and was probably there I was snooping.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Mmmm.
DC1485'At what time of the day do you think this photograph was taken'
CT'Well, it was... it must have happened in the morning because it was taken on Sunday.
DC1485'It was taken on Sunday'
CT'Yes, because the sun was out, humm'around mid-day, I would say it was around noon.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'This is good.
CT'This is all I remember.
DC1485'I will make copies of these photographs, later, after completing your statement.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And I have this as your proof and evidence.
CT'You can have these because, humm... they are on CD, and if they can help'
DC1485'Right, okay.
CT'You can have them.
DC1485'I will see what I (inaudible) can do with them.
CT'yes, okay.
DC1485'Okay, I will get up for two minutes and ask my colleague if any fact has escaped me.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Right.
CT'Yes, I will have some water.
DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.
DC MESSIAH returns to the interview room.
DC1485'Hello, I have returned. I apologise for the length of my absence (inaudible), my colleague was trying to get a better quality photograph copy, the one I showed him was very, very light, wasn't it'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Does this bring back memories'
CT'Good, the one I saw was on computer...
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And... hum, with the glasses... he did not wear sunglasses.
DC1485'No, but if you could imagine him without sunglasses, is it very difficult'
CT'Yes, hum... I know that I have had some difficulty with the ears as well, but... humm, I think so.
DC1485'This was made by another witness, who affirms having seen a man who corresponds to his description but...
CT'The one thing is that I saw him from an angle.
DC1485'From below.
CT'From below, his mouth was more 'hum' very delineated, it was not'in this one it appeared more'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But, hum... the head looks good.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Humm, but the glasses and I do not know about the nose, it was more'mmm'but we all come from different places.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'He did not have this in his chin.
DC1485'No.
CT'And he had a long face.
DC1485'Longer than this one'
CT'Yes, although I saw him from above, I have (inaudible) because I very much like this photograph.
DC1485'Oh right.
CT'For this reason, I am very good at this. But not in measurements (inaudible)'facial recognition, hummm.
DC1485'Okay, but this one.
CT'Yes, the head, the cut of the hair, the hair line was very similar, mmm... but the individual made him on CD, humm.
DC1485'What did he do'
CT'He, well, he assigned a document to confirm that I was correct but it was all on computer and'humm'he took it back to Reading.
DC1485'He was from Reading'
CT'He worked for the Reading Police, so I assumed he was legitimate.
DC1485'Did he leave a card or another contact'
CT'Humm...
DC1485'Is the name recognisable'
CT'No, but it was all noted by the Police in Reading.
DC1485'Where did they go'
CT'They, they went to my office.
DC1485'They went to your office'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'How many of them were there'
CT'Only one, with a laptop.
DC1485'I am not suggesting that he, he'
CT'I was going to say that, I hope he was legitimate, this was a long time ago.
DC1485'Yes, I am not suggesting this, simply, I want you to help me find him.
CT'I, I do not remember his name, humm.
DC1485'You told me that he was young'
CT'Yes, a young person.
DC1485'He was in his youth'
CT'Well, a computer genious, but not one of those weird looking ones, you know'hum, very much younger'humm, he was around 25 or something.
Dc1485'Okay.
CT'Dark hair, hum'short, yes, I remember that he was very short, humm'and was only'
DC1485'You have a fantastic memory, did you know that'
CT' (laughs) Perhaps this has something to do with my past, because I was working, hummm'my other organisation was, hummm'called Reading because it was all organized by them.
DC1485'Good, I will ask you to contact us first, unless you have a preference'
CT'I can check in my agenda when I get home.
DC1485'And call me after or'
DC1485'I keep all my appointments and if there is anything, because when I was working, I was better organised compared to when I do nothing.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Perhaps there is something about his name.
DC1485'Because he must have said his name and the visit and you may have made a note in your agenda.
CT'I would have noted it as I had to also book the room.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I remember this, yes.
DC1485'Okay. Some questions that were asked of me need clarification, first you told me everything that you saw when he was at the gate. In what direction he was looking when he exited; when he was preparing to leave; when he began walking through the gate and consequently, already outside the gate'
CT'Well, he was looking in the direction opposite to me.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus, he must have... I did not look, I only saw him leave via the gate, turn and here he did this stealthily, slowly, at opening the gate,. It was the manner in which he opened it. He did not look to where I was, nor did he see me.
Dc1485'Good.
CT'And... humm, I was more or less with my back turned towards him, and he used two hands to do this, which was strange, and after looked in that direction, to the left, and left as I turned away.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'How much time'how much time did he look to the left'
CT'It was for a bit, very intentional.
DC1485'Like he was stopping to look'
CT'Yes, intentially to check to see something, you know, and after looking from one side to the other before leaving; this is what called my attention.
DC1485'Did someone else see him'
CT'No because my husband and aunt were seated, but below the terrace wall, so that they did not see anything.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'I would say that has they not been intently conversing regarding this and that...
DC1485'You would not have stayed there and'
CT'I would have, I would have called their attention and asked them what they thought of it.
DC1485'Okay. From what I can tell, this is the end of the interview.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add, given that eleven months have passed when you first spoke of this'
CT'Not really, there is only the issue of what I have spoken about and which had to do with the apartment. I did not know that it was the apartment below ours and, humm'I did not know that they were staying in that apartment; I was focused on the gate. I had no idea.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Except in the Sunday papers, as we have seen.
DC1485' Had you seen anyone prior, anyone at all, leaving by that gate before'
CT'Hummm... no, not while we were visiting, no.
DC1485'And do you remember if it was occupied at that time'
CT'I cannot be sure, I do not know if anyone was there because it was very early in the season, and there were some guests staying in apartments above the ground floor.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Was there anyone there, who perhaps put out clothing'
CT'Yes.
CT'There were some, but that small gate...it also gives access to the apartments above.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'For this reason, I do not know...
DC1485'Okay.
CT'As you know, I did not see anyone leave or enter.
DC1485'Do you know if your aunt knew of anyone staying as a guest, or mentioned that someone was staying there'
CT'She probably knew, but she does not talk much about this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'So this'humm.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'She is very astute, you know.
DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add'
CT'No.
DC1485'She was given the opportunity to clarify. Right, it is 11h10. This interview has ended/
DC1485'A big family.
CT'Yes, a big family, humm... and her husband, my uncle's family was from Australia, but I believe that this is... mmm
DC1485'Okay. Finally Carole, I would like to go over with you the photos you brought with you, which you showed to me before the interview.
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'Please clarify for me, when these were taken, who took it, and...'
CT'Hum... okay, my husband and aunt hate taking photographs, for this reason he must have taken these, I know that they were taken on Sunday, a lovely sunny day where we were seated, as was usual, on the terrace. There are a number of people there.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'There is the pool, there is the overhang, which is not really an overhand but a wall.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'A wall with plants from a distance; like a passageway on the pavement which runs until the building.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'This is similar to what one can see now, and the reception area with the roof.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And the people between I believe are many who work at the Ocean Club and who also live in the surrounding areas, also in the locale.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'That is it.
DC1485'If we select this photograph, I will show it to you, okay'
CT'This must be one of the better ones, If I may say so.
DC1485'This one shows you,
CT'This, this shows me looking down being curious, but this is not of the other apartment.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But below there is, humm...the terrace of the other apartment.
DC1485'Oh, that one... hummm. Where the McCanns stayed.
CT'I did not know, but it must have been, they had a type of patio below, but the one I was looking at, humm... was where the small gate was located which is almost to that side.
DC1485'That is the gate where you saw the individual.
CT'Mmm, mmm
DC1485'Where you stood'
CT'Where I stood.
DC1485'I will (inaudible) see something. Image 50590 okay, that I what I will call it.
CT'Ah ah.
DC1485'Image 0590 is one of your pictures.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And you are looking below.
CT'And I am looking below.
CT'Mmm, mmm.
DC1485'And tell me where is the gate, in realtion ot the rest.
CT'Well, the gate is slightly more towards the front, 69 centimetres towards the front.
DC1485'To your right.
CT'To my right.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Right below where the McCanns stayed there is a small patio.
CT'Yes.
CT'But I did not see if they had a gate themselves.
CT'Okay. And after there is a small apartment below that has a small terrace and was probably there I was snooping.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Mmmm.
DC1485'At what time of the day do you think this photograph was taken'
CT'Well, it was... it must have happened in the morning because it was taken on Sunday.
DC1485'It was taken on Sunday'
CT'Yes, because the sun was out, humm'around mid-day, I would say it was around noon.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Mmm
DC1485'This is good.
CT'This is all I remember.
DC1485'I will make copies of these photographs, later, after completing your statement.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'And I have this as your proof and evidence.
CT'You can have these because, humm... they are on CD, and if they can help'
DC1485'Right, okay.
CT'You can have them.
DC1485'I will see what I (inaudible) can do with them.
CT'yes, okay.
DC1485'Okay, I will get up for two minutes and ask my colleague if any fact has escaped me.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Right.
CT'Yes, I will have some water.
DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.
DC MESSIAH returns to the interview room.
DC1485'Hello, I have returned. I apologise for the length of my absence (inaudible), my colleague was trying to get a better quality photograph copy, the one I showed him was very, very light, wasn't it'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'Does this bring back memories'
CT'Good, the one I saw was on computer...
DC1485'Yes.
CT'And... hum, with the glasses... he did not wear sunglasses.
DC1485'No, but if you could imagine him without sunglasses, is it very difficult'
CT'Yes, hum... I know that I have had some difficulty with the ears as well, but... humm, I think so.
DC1485'This was made by another witness, who affirms having seen a man who corresponds to his description but...
CT'The one thing is that I saw him from an angle.
DC1485'From below.
CT'From below, his mouth was more 'hum' very delineated, it was not'in this one it appeared more'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'But, hum... the head looks good.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Humm, but the glasses and I do not know about the nose, it was more'mmm'but we all come from different places.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'He did not have this in his chin.
DC1485'No.
CT'And he had a long face.
DC1485'Longer than this one'
CT'Yes, although I saw him from above, I have (inaudible) because I very much like this photograph.
DC1485'Oh right.
CT'For this reason, I am very good at this. But not in measurements (inaudible)'facial recognition, hummm.
DC1485'Okay, but this one.
CT'Yes, the head, the cut of the hair, the hair line was very similar, mmm... but the individual made him on CD, humm.
DC1485'What did he do'
CT'He, well, he assigned a document to confirm that I was correct but it was all on computer and'humm'he took it back to Reading.
DC1485'He was from Reading'
CT'He worked for the Reading Police, so I assumed he was legitimate.
DC1485'Did he leave a card or another contact'
CT'Humm...
DC1485'Is the name recognisable'
CT'No, but it was all noted by the Police in Reading.
DC1485'Where did they go'
CT'They, they went to my office.
DC1485'They went to your office'
CT'Yes.
DC1485'How many of them were there'
CT'Only one, with a laptop.
DC1485'I am not suggesting that he, he'
CT'I was going to say that, I hope he was legitimate, this was a long time ago.
DC1485'Yes, I am not suggesting this, simply, I want you to help me find him.
CT'I, I do not remember his name, humm.
DC1485'You told me that he was young'
CT'Yes, a young person.
DC1485'He was in his youth'
CT'Well, a computer genious, but not one of those weird looking ones, you know'hum, very much younger'humm, he was around 25 or something.
Dc1485'Okay.
CT'Dark hair, hum'short, yes, I remember that he was very short, humm'and was only'
DC1485'You have a fantastic memory, did you know that'
CT' (laughs) Perhaps this has something to do with my past, because I was working, hummm'my other organisation was, hummm'called Reading because it was all organized by them.
DC1485'Good, I will ask you to contact us first, unless you have a preference'
CT'I can check in my agenda when I get home.
DC1485'And call me after or'
DC1485'I keep all my appointments and if there is anything, because when I was working, I was better organised compared to when I do nothing.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'Perhaps there is something about his name.
DC1485'Because he must have said his name and the visit and you may have made a note in your agenda.
CT'I would have noted it as I had to also book the room.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'I remember this, yes.
DC1485'Okay. Some questions that were asked of me need clarification, first you told me everything that you saw when he was at the gate. In what direction he was looking when he exited; when he was preparing to leave; when he began walking through the gate and consequently, already outside the gate'
CT'Well, he was looking in the direction opposite to me.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Thus, he must have... I did not look, I only saw him leave via the gate, turn and here he did this stealthily, slowly, at opening the gate,. It was the manner in which he opened it. He did not look to where I was, nor did he see me.
Dc1485'Good.
CT'And... humm, I was more or less with my back turned towards him, and he used two hands to do this, which was strange, and after looked in that direction, to the left, and left as I turned away.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'How much time'how much time did he look to the left'
CT'It was for a bit, very intentional.
DC1485'Like he was stopping to look'
CT'Yes, intentially to check to see something, you know, and after looking from one side to the other before leaving; this is what called my attention.
DC1485'Did someone else see him'
CT'No because my husband and aunt were seated, but below the terrace wall, so that they did not see anything.
DC1485'Okay.
CT'I would say that has they not been intently conversing regarding this and that...
DC1485'You would not have stayed there and'
CT'I would have, I would have called their attention and asked them what they thought of it.
DC1485'Okay. From what I can tell, this is the end of the interview.
CT'Okay.
DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add, given that eleven months have passed when you first spoke of this'
CT'Not really, there is only the issue of what I have spoken about and which had to do with the apartment. I did not know that it was the apartment below ours and, humm'I did not know that they were staying in that apartment; I was focused on the gate. I had no idea.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'Except in the Sunday papers, as we have seen.
DC1485' Had you seen anyone prior, anyone at all, leaving by that gate before'
CT'Hummm... no, not while we were visiting, no.
DC1485'And do you remember if it was occupied at that time'
CT'I cannot be sure, I do not know if anyone was there because it was very early in the season, and there were some guests staying in apartments above the ground floor.
DC1485'Yes.
DC1485'Was there anyone there, who perhaps put out clothing'
CT'Yes.
CT'There were some, but that small gate...it also gives access to the apartments above.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'For this reason, I do not know...
DC1485'Okay.
CT'As you know, I did not see anyone leave or enter.
DC1485'Do you know if your aunt knew of anyone staying as a guest, or mentioned that someone was staying there'
CT'She probably knew, but she does not talk much about this.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'So this'humm.
DC1485'Yes.
CT'She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed'
DC1485'Yes.
CT'She is very astute, you know.
DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add'
CT'No.
DC1485'She was given the opportunity to clarify. Right, it is 11h10. This interview has ended/
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 24.09.17 0:29
Witness statement - Michelle Thompson
Dated: 1st May 2008
[Important note: Michelle Thompson is a life long friend of Kate McCann/Healy and partner of Jon Corner. Jon Corner, a professional in the world of media, is a close friend of the McCanns - he was actively and heavily involved with the family after the alleged disappearance of Madeleine, particularly during the summer of 2007. Jon Corner was responsible for the production of the Madeleine McCann May 2010 appeal video, showing various inappropriate images of Madeleine - including the legendary 'make-up' image]
I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to the Leicestershire police. I was questioned related to my relationship with the McCanns and with the Healy family and also about my visit to Portugal during the summer of 2007.
I have known Kate since the first day of nursery school 36 years ago, when we lived in Anfield, in Liverpool. We maintained our friendship through adulthood. Kate met Gerry in University around 13 or 14 years ago and married 10 years ago. They have thee children, Madeleine, 5 years old, and the twins, Sean and Amelie, 3 years of age. My companion and I, Jon Corner, were Amelie's god-parents. Kate is the god-mother of my daughter Charlotte.
Before Madeleine's the disappearance last year, Jon and I saw Kate, Gerry and the family about five times per year. We would go to Leicester or they would come to Liverpool. This would normally happen around holidays, like birthdays, Christmas, etc.
On the morning of the 4th of May, 2007, Kate called our land line but we did not hear it as we were asleep and did not put the phone on the bed. She left a message and asked us to call her once we heard the message. Kate must have tried Jon?s mobile once as we stirred when it rang at about 03h20. Jon spoke briefly with Kate and then called her around 03h30. I knew that Kate and Gerry were on holidays in Portugal. Kate was very anguished and on the telephone and told me that she had checked on the children every half-hour. It was around 22h00, and when she went to check on the children she found that someone had entered the apartment and taken Madeleine from where she slept; that Madeleine had been abducted. The person must have entered, passed by the twins and taken her.
Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children's room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared. Kate urged me to call all the close family and to ask them to pray for Madeleine. My family is catholic and Kate knew this. Even though I am catholic, I have to admit that Kate has more faith than I. I did not speak to Gerry that night.
During the next 24 hours, we maintained contact through text messages but I spoke to her around 04H30 on the next day, Saturday, the 5th of May of 2007. Kate was still frustrated and anguished and felt that nobody was doing anything to help find Madeleine. She told me that the police had left in the morning and returned around 09H30 and that now only a few agents with sniffer dogs were in the locale. This was all the activity that I know of. I asked her if I could help her in Portugal and she responded in the affirmative. For this reason, with a common friend, Nick Gill, (whom Kate also contacted) and I planned to fly to Faro the next day. We left from Liverpool directly to Faro on Sunday morning.
We were greeted at the airport by representatives of Mark Warner who took us to the Ocean Club resort. We met Gerry and Kate half-way through this day. Kate looked terrible, exhausted and wasted. She lamented that Madeleine would be found in a ditch and that the next time she would see her would be in the mortuary; that a paedophile had taken her.
Sometime later, Gerry and Kate went to get the twins from the creche, trying to give them the most normal routine. During our stay, we helped them were we could in maintaining some normality for the twins. At the end of this week, Kate and Gerry spoke with a psychologist called Alan, contracted by Mark Warner. After this, both appeared calmer and more capable of analyzing the situation.
On Monday, Gerry became more confused regarding what to do and how to do it. Monday morning, Fiona Payne knocked on our door and told us of a search, organised by some residents and tourists. We were transported with about 10 other people in a mini bus. We spent the morning searching the terrain and fields of difficult access near the resort. I cannot recite precisely the locale.
There was no police involvement in this search. Around 12h00 I received a telephone from Kate asking if Nicky and I could take care of the twins while they attended a session with the media asking for help and had just returned to the resort. Between us both, we watched the twins that afternoon. That night, a group of local women and children, accompanied by the church's priest arrived at the apartment and prayed the rosary. It was at this time that Kate was given access to the church and Gerry was loaned a lap-top with access to the internet.
The next day, Tuesday, I left the resort and returned home as I have small children. Nicky stayed a few extra days. Since my return, we have maintained daily contact via text messages. At times, I call, but always when I answer the telephone she appeared profoundly anguished. During my stay, Gerry was truly disturbed but handled the situation better than Kate, especially after the conversation with Alan, the psychologist. This was how he dealt with the situation.
Kate and Gerry never put their children at risk and they adored Madeleine and the twins. Both love their children and Madeleine represented everything to Kate and in my opinion, they are both excellent parents and totally devoted to their children.
This testimony was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
Dated: 1st May 2008
[Important note: Michelle Thompson is a life long friend of Kate McCann/Healy and partner of Jon Corner. Jon Corner, a professional in the world of media, is a close friend of the McCanns - he was actively and heavily involved with the family after the alleged disappearance of Madeleine, particularly during the summer of 2007. Jon Corner was responsible for the production of the Madeleine McCann May 2010 appeal video, showing various inappropriate images of Madeleine - including the legendary 'make-up' image]
I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to the Leicestershire police. I was questioned related to my relationship with the McCanns and with the Healy family and also about my visit to Portugal during the summer of 2007.
I have known Kate since the first day of nursery school 36 years ago, when we lived in Anfield, in Liverpool. We maintained our friendship through adulthood. Kate met Gerry in University around 13 or 14 years ago and married 10 years ago. They have thee children, Madeleine, 5 years old, and the twins, Sean and Amelie, 3 years of age. My companion and I, Jon Corner, were Amelie's god-parents. Kate is the god-mother of my daughter Charlotte.
Before Madeleine's the disappearance last year, Jon and I saw Kate, Gerry and the family about five times per year. We would go to Leicester or they would come to Liverpool. This would normally happen around holidays, like birthdays, Christmas, etc.
On the morning of the 4th of May, 2007, Kate called our land line but we did not hear it as we were asleep and did not put the phone on the bed. She left a message and asked us to call her once we heard the message. Kate must have tried Jon?s mobile once as we stirred when it rang at about 03h20. Jon spoke briefly with Kate and then called her around 03h30. I knew that Kate and Gerry were on holidays in Portugal. Kate was very anguished and on the telephone and told me that she had checked on the children every half-hour. It was around 22h00, and when she went to check on the children she found that someone had entered the apartment and taken Madeleine from where she slept; that Madeleine had been abducted. The person must have entered, passed by the twins and taken her.
Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children's room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared. Kate urged me to call all the close family and to ask them to pray for Madeleine. My family is catholic and Kate knew this. Even though I am catholic, I have to admit that Kate has more faith than I. I did not speak to Gerry that night.
During the next 24 hours, we maintained contact through text messages but I spoke to her around 04H30 on the next day, Saturday, the 5th of May of 2007. Kate was still frustrated and anguished and felt that nobody was doing anything to help find Madeleine. She told me that the police had left in the morning and returned around 09H30 and that now only a few agents with sniffer dogs were in the locale. This was all the activity that I know of. I asked her if I could help her in Portugal and she responded in the affirmative. For this reason, with a common friend, Nick Gill, (whom Kate also contacted) and I planned to fly to Faro the next day. We left from Liverpool directly to Faro on Sunday morning.
We were greeted at the airport by representatives of Mark Warner who took us to the Ocean Club resort. We met Gerry and Kate half-way through this day. Kate looked terrible, exhausted and wasted. She lamented that Madeleine would be found in a ditch and that the next time she would see her would be in the mortuary; that a paedophile had taken her.
Sometime later, Gerry and Kate went to get the twins from the creche, trying to give them the most normal routine. During our stay, we helped them were we could in maintaining some normality for the twins. At the end of this week, Kate and Gerry spoke with a psychologist called Alan, contracted by Mark Warner. After this, both appeared calmer and more capable of analyzing the situation.
On Monday, Gerry became more confused regarding what to do and how to do it. Monday morning, Fiona Payne knocked on our door and told us of a search, organised by some residents and tourists. We were transported with about 10 other people in a mini bus. We spent the morning searching the terrain and fields of difficult access near the resort. I cannot recite precisely the locale.
There was no police involvement in this search. Around 12h00 I received a telephone from Kate asking if Nicky and I could take care of the twins while they attended a session with the media asking for help and had just returned to the resort. Between us both, we watched the twins that afternoon. That night, a group of local women and children, accompanied by the church's priest arrived at the apartment and prayed the rosary. It was at this time that Kate was given access to the church and Gerry was loaned a lap-top with access to the internet.
The next day, Tuesday, I left the resort and returned home as I have small children. Nicky stayed a few extra days. Since my return, we have maintained daily contact via text messages. At times, I call, but always when I answer the telephone she appeared profoundly anguished. During my stay, Gerry was truly disturbed but handled the situation better than Kate, especially after the conversation with Alan, the psychologist. This was how he dealt with the situation.
Kate and Gerry never put their children at risk and they adored Madeleine and the twins. Both love their children and Madeleine represented everything to Kate and in my opinion, they are both excellent parents and totally devoted to their children.
This testimony was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 27.09.17 15:33
Witness statement - Jennifer Murat
Dated: 15th May 2007
She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.
--- She comes to the case as a witness.
--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth.
--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.
--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.
--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.
--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.
--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.
--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.
--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.
--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).
--- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.
--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.
--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.
--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.
--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.
--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.
--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.
--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.
--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].
--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.
--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.
--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.
--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon.
--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.
--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.
--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.
--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.
--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years.
--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness'
other children.
--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.
--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.
--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.
--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.
--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.
--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.
--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.
--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.
--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.
--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.
--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.
--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.
--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.
--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.
--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.
--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert's project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.
--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).
--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.
---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.
--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.
- End -
Dated: 15th May 2007
She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.
--- She comes to the case as a witness.
--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth.
--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.
--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.
--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.
--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.
--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.
--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.
--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.
--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).
--- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.
--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.
--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.
--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.
--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.
--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.
--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.
--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.
--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].
--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.
--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.
--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.
--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon.
--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.
--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.
--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.
--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.
--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years.
--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness'
other children.--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.
--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.
--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.
--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.
--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.
--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.
--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.
--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.
--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.
--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.
--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.
--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.
--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.
--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.
--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.
--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert'
s project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).
--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.
---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.
--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.
- End -
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 27.09.17 15:46
Witness statement - Arguido Robert Murat
14th May 2007
As for his criminal background he said:
--- He has never been before a court, nor been arrested.
Asked if he wanted to respond to the facts that are imputed against him, he responded:
--- Affirmatively.
--- He comes to the case in order to clarify the facts with which he is charged, dispensing with the presence of a lawyer and an interpreter as he understands perfectly the Portuguese language in its oral and written form. He was already present in the procedural activities as an interpreter.
--- Born in London, England, about 33 years ago. His parents have lived in Portugal, which his mother still does (Casa Liliana) given that his father died when he was twelve years old. He came to Portugal when he was two weeks old, returning to the United Kingdom in 1989, returning to Portugal in 2005, where he has been living in Praia da Luz, Lagos. He has also lived in Lagos and in Almádena.
--- In England he lived in various localities, Norfolk, Devon - Sidford and Norwich.
--- He has two siblings, one a male who is 38 years old and a female who is 35/36 years old, [both of whom] have also lived in Portugal with the deponent. However the respondent returned to the United Kingdom and his siblings also eventually returned to their country of birth, where they currently live. He has four nephews, two couples, in age from four to sixteen years. He has a healthy family environment, of good relations and frequent contacts.
--- On the educational background, said he did not know whether he began in Portugal or the UK. He attended primary school in Espiche, later the International School of Porches and soon after the Secondary School in Lagos, which he left by the seventh year.
--- He doe not have technical and professional courses [qualifications], but attended an accountancy course in the UK.
--- After the death of his father, he left the school, that being the main reason, and then often consumed some drugs and alcohol. Five to six years later, his Mother became involved with another person, which disagreeing, took him back to Portugal [NOTE *], in conjunction with a state of passion [love], for a British girl.
--- In the United Kingdom has pursued several activities from canvasser of customers for window sales, factory worker in the meat business and seller of cars. In the south of England worked as an assistant to geriatrics, search and rescue of shipwrecks, before the meat factory and trade in automobiles. Then he came to Portugal where, always, he worked in real estate.
--- As for his wife, Dxxx MURAT, from whom he is in the process of divorce, he met her when he was 19 years old, in the south of the United Kingdom, resulting from that relationship a daughter born in 2002. Besides his wife he never had many lasting relationships, only fleeting situations. He is separated since 2005, which corresponds to his return to Portugal, together with her. After the separation his wife returned to England, he believes in August, with their daughter, Sxxxx MURAT. He only returned to see his daughter when he went to the United Kingdom in October and November of that same year. In May, June of 2006, he went back to the United Kingdom to see his daughter, which is repeated once again in November, though he says that in this time gap he made another visit, but cannot be sure. Again he made a further visit in December, in time for Christmas. Earlier this year he visited in January, returning to Portugal on May 01, the public holiday. When he goes to the United Kingdom he stays in the residence of his Grandmother or sister.
--- Generally, his movement to Portugal was to hold several meetings in order to form the company, MICHAELA was also involved in this activity, which was always linked to real estate. He states that she was in the UK with the respondent, accompanied by her daughter on three occasions.
--- His Mother, receives a pension from Portugal and England, a total of €700, having means [assets] through inheritance and sale of a property.
--- Currently his closest female friend is MICHAELA WALCZUCH, with whom he worked in the company "Remax" in April 2005, beginning the close friendship a few months later. With her he is trying to open a company [firm] in the real estate business, which will be named ROMIGEN, already owning a website. It is with her that he passes his leisure time, usually walking. Speaking about the Internet, he uses this tool to contact Michaela, and for visiting sites of a sexual nature, in particular - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - to which he does not access daily.
--- He has several e-mail addresses, namely:
[6 e-mail addresses edited out]
--- With respect to Michaela, she has e-mail addresses:
[3 e-mail addresses edited out]
--- As regards his daily life, he said he made several meetings with business partners, or future partners, it being that these meetings are conducted at restaurants or at the residence of Michaela, located at Rua Adelina ... Lagos.
--- During the previous week, 09 May, he intended to return to the United Kingdom, but has not done so due to the disappearance of the child, since he was already helping the authorities. He changed the flight to Saturday 12th of his own accord, and for the same reason, at the request of Police, he said, once again he changed the journey [for his return to England] to the 19th. The first change in the trip cost the respondent 41 pounds.
The Second amendment had no cost, as he explained the situation to the operator "Flybe." The trip to the UK was for the restoration of his house, and a medical consultation scheduled for the 14th.
--- Asked, he uses his mother's cars, VW Transporter, whose number plate is he does not know, and "Skoda Fabia", does not know the registration, which is in the repair shop "Autojoteca", next to Torre, Lagos. Currently and given that his mother uses the VW at the stand that she has set up in Luz, he rented a Hyundai Getz, at the cost to his Mother.
--- Relating to the events under investigation, he said he arrived on May 01 at 09:30 at the airport in Faro, coming from the city of Exeter, which has an airport. His address, that is the home of his grandmother that he is restoring, is at Sidmouth in Devon. His sister lives in two different locations, both in Exeter.
--- At the airport he was met by his mother, in the VW that the respondent drove. He went to a petrol station at the airport exit, that had closed the toilets. He didn't eat anything or fill up the car. He then drove to the A22, where he stopped at the first service station on the way, M24. He drank a "galao" [a typical breakfast drink comprising 50% coffee and 50% hot milk] as did his mother. He ate a meat pie and his mother a "folhado misto" [a cheese and ham croissant]. They resumed the journey, having stopped at another M24 station [NOTE: "M24" is the name of the 24 hour convenience shops at many GALP service stations], where they drank coffee. Soon after they went directly to Casa Liliana in Luz, where he arrived at 11:30-12:00. Soon after and without unpacking his suitcase or entering his home, he went in the VW to see Michaela at her house in Lagos, about 12:00-12:30, where he took some gifts for both mother and daughter. He remained in her house, he thinks, until 15:00-15:30, having offered the gifts and talked with the entire family, including the father Luis Antonio, in addition to drinking tea. He does not remember having eaten lunch, or if someone else had lunch. He said goodbye to those present, left the apartment and drove himself home, where he arrived at 16:00. He does not remember having gone to another place, before arriving at his residence. Once at home, he does not know if he went out again.
--- The following day (02/05), he got up around 09:00 and left home by 10:00-10:30. He went to Lagos in the VW, to the home of Michaela, where he arrived at 10.40 am. He entered her house, where she was alone. He remained there for a short time talking. They left there and went in the VW to the centre of Lagos. He parked in one of the streets and went to the residence of FRANCISCO PAGARETE, who was not there, but his girlfriend Sonia was there. Next he went to meet his future real estate partners in their shop, called "Putos and Graúdos", located in Lagos, not knowing the street, whose line of business is the sale of clothing and is owned by JORGE S. He does not know the time. After the meeting in the store they went to a cafe but does not know the name, now four people - the respondent, Michaela, Jorge S. and his son Jason. Soon after went to another cafe located in Lagos Marina, less noisy, where they talked about business. He consumed a "galao" drink, but does not know if the others did. The bill was paid by MICHAELA in the first cafe he thinks, and he has no idea who paid in the second. In that cafe they spent some time until 13:50-14:00.
--- After the Marina they walked back to the VW and then had lunch in the restaurant "Bem Bom" in Lagos, this time only with Michaela, where he arrived a little after 14:00. He ate roast meat. Lunch ended by 15:15-15:20, they went to the school of Cxxxxxxx (daughter of Michaela, who is 8 years of age) in order to collect her, they arrived five minutes later. They went again to the home of PAGARETE, who this time was at home. They were talking next to the VW, to Michaela about the divorce and the respondent about buildings [properties]. He does not remember the time that he left from there. He returned to MICHAELA's house in Lagos, with her and her daughter. He entered the apartment. He does not know what they did or talked about. He remained in the apartment, with the mother and daughter for a long time, LUIS having arrived by 21:00 or shortly after, when they were having dinner of pork or turkey. He left Michaela's home about 22:30-23:00, got the VW and went to his house in Luz, parking the vehicle in front of house. He spoke with his mother who was awake. He is certain that he remained at home until the next morning. Turned on the computer and played cards, going to sleep at 01:00-01:30.
--- On 03 awakened at 08:00-09:00, took a bath, dressed and drank some tea. Left home at 10:00, got the VW and presumes having gone to Lagos to see Michaela. He does not know where he parked the VW. He went up to the apartment, rang the bell, Michaela opened the door. Only Michaela was at home. They talked about the website for their real estate project in the lounge and the kitchen for a long time. The two left the apartment around 12:00 in the VW. They took the road towards Portimao and before Odiáxere, they went round the access roundabout to the A22, direction Portimao - Lagos. Ten to fifteen minutes after leaving the apartment, they came the petrol pumps of the Galp-M24, on the A22, where they had lunch, he does not remember what and for less than an hour. They left the pump station and returned to the apartment, where they were once again talking about various things. They collected Cxxxxxxx from school in the VW at 15.30 and the three met with Jorge Sxxxx and his son, he does not know where, but believes it was at the Lagos Marina. There they went into a café whose name he can't recall, next to a play area for children, where Cxxxxxxx played. They spoke about "Romigen" and the meeting finished late, perhaps by 18:00-19:00. Everybody left together, went to the VW which was parked in the car park at the rear of the Marina, they gave a ride to Jorge S. and his son to the bus station, next to the CTT in the city centre Lagos. Then he went to the home of MICHAELA, close to 19.00. He said farewell to them in the VW and headed for his residence, where he arrived between 19.15 and 19.30. He parked the VW in front of the house and entered. He does not know if his mother was at home, but thinks so because it was late for her to walk the dogs, as they usually leave at 17:00 and return at 19.00. After entering, he may have taken some tea and turned on the TV or it was already on. He may also have read a newspaper. He talked with the mother, who if she was not there had arrived shortly afterwards, about Romigen. He ate a sandwich of cheese and ham sitting in the kitchen with his mother, until 22:00 or 23:00. Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA when she went to a Jehovah witnesses' meeting between 20:00 and 22:00, which is why he didn't phone her, because she turns her phone off. He does not know if he called her after 22:00, but accepts that possibility. He does not remember having used the computer. He was home with his mother, when at 22:30 or a little later, he heard a siren of an ambulance or police. He commented on that with his mother, however, did not leave the house to investigate. He did not leave again until the morning, having gone to bed around midnight.
--- On Friday, 04/05, woke around 09:00, took a bath, went to the kitchen to his mother, the latter told him that something terrible had happened, because a child had disappeared in Praia da Luz, according to 'Sky News' that she had been watching. At once the respondent and his Mother went to look in the garden, walled with a fence of 1m in height, checking if the child had managed to enter, which in a way was almost impossible without aid. In one corner of the garden is a greenhouse, which was searched, and then they saw an English passer-by on the outside, he does not know the identity. When asked about this, he was told that the child had disappeared. Accompanied by that person, he went to the place of the disappearance, and was introduced to the parents of the child, as he spoke the two languages, Portuguese and English. Assumes that the passer-by would be staying at the Luz Ocean Club, in the block opposite the home of the respondent. This individual already knew the parents of MADELEINE, or met them at the time. He started a conversation with the family of the child, offering to help. Together with an officer of the GNR and an employee of the resort with several keys, entered several apartments, opened with the keys or by the tenants in order to locate the child. Some of the apartments were closed and there were no keys, these sites were flagged by the GNR man.
--- At that time he met John Hill, manager of MARK WARNER, who supplied them with more keys to other apartments.
--- Prior to this occasion, he did not know the interior of the "Ocean Club", only entering the resort after the disappearance.
--- In the meantime the tracker dogs arrived that undertook a more rigorous form of search.
--- Then, having told several of the present people, including officers of the GNR, that he spoke two languages, he was taken to some places to make verbal translations for people who wanted to testify, remaining in that role during the afternoon. On the evening of that day by 19:00-19:30 went to see Michaela, returning to Luz about 23:00-23:30.
--- On Saturday he continued the verbal translations next to the GNR mobile police station, making various contacts with the press, and that night went again to Lagos.
--- When asked he said the relationship with the press was somewhat troubled.
--- He clarifies therefore, that on the Sunday he spoke to the wife of Batista, owner of the supermarket, not knowing her name, asking her to leave the establishment open in order to supply the people who were there. The supermarket did not stay open due to lack of members of staff, however they gave several litres of water that were placed at the entrance of Block 5. He also asked John Hill that electricity would be supplied to the mobile GNR police station.
--- At some point on Monday, a well-known acquaintance since the age of twelve years, named GAYNOR Exxxxxx, told him that he was the main suspect among the journalists. Subsequently he learned that she was working for "Sky", with a journalist, and she was told that they were comparing with a case of homicide that occurred in the United Kingdom, in which two girls had been killed and that the perpetrators of the crime were close to the place of the investigation. From then on he refused to speak with journalists and alerted the the Police to this. That refusal [of his] was to not provide his full name, nor to allow the taking of a photograph.
--- He said he had pornography on the computer. He has pictures with women over 18 years. He has no photographs of men. Just naked women, not sexually explicit, not remembering if they were using phallic objects. He has no record of violent sex, or sadomasochism or submission. He does not have images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals. He does not use an encrypted external server or encrypted content.
--- Asked he said he has nothing to do with the disappearance of the child, nor anything about this case.
--- Asked he clarified that never has anyone accessed, without his authorization, his computer systems, a total of three, one an ACER (which has the Vista operating system installed), another an ASUS brand and his own an LG, these two systems having the XP operating system installed. That the computer systems were interconnected and shared the access to the INTERNET through an ADSL MODEM-ROUTER, by mere chance, by choice of his mother. That the contract for access to the INTERNET was signed by his mother with the company supplying INTERNET services, from Portugal TELECOM, named "SAPO". Asked he said he does not see himself as an expert in computing and communications but these are areas that are not unknown to him, given that he had his first computer some ten years ago.
--- That the current ADSL Modem-Router equipment is, as far as he recalls, an SMC brand and it makes it possible to operate a network of computers, via "network-without-wires." [WiFi; wireless networking]. Asked, he responded that the computer systems he had in his house, have clocks, date and time, set to the official time; that he does not know [how] to explain why the clock of the equipment that permitted him to connect to the INTERNET, the SMC ADSL modem-router, was unsynchronized. That this is due to the fact of it having been to an outside company, "125 computers", with its main office or place of business in the town of Mexilhoeira-Grande. That regarding the remaining computers it was the declarer who had configured them. That on the computer systems in question were installed normal programs.
--- Asked about what he considers to be normal programs, he said they would be the operating system and work tools typical of the Microsoft family, such as word processing, spreadsheet, the Internet browser (Internet Explorer) or anti-virus programs. That his commercial activity is in the area of real estate, promoting and making it pay through advertising homes for sale on the INTERNET and that the programs installed in the computers were in accordance with [needed for] his commercial activity. Asked about if, unlike the normal programs that he described, he had kept or had had installed on his systems [any] abnormal or peculiar [strange] programs, he replied that he only has a program called "CCCleaner" for the improvement of the performance of the system, not retaining programs that erase traces of child pornography. That that program "CCCleaner" was installed by his son three years ago, which statement [for the record] the respondent corrects and declares that his son informed him of the existence of the "CCCleaner" program years before, it having been the declarer who installed it on the XP systems. That he does not know the full potential of the "CCCleaner" program, particularly those that are said in this deposition by the declarer: erasing the history of navigation in INTERNET, of temporary files, exchange of files, recently used documents, register [record] of applications (registry), the various registry files (log's), the "garbage can" or "recycle bin"; asked about the effects of deleting the program, said he was not an expert on the subject and does not know the program well. Asked how he does not know well the effects of the program, if he has known it for more than three years, he said that he is not expert.
--- Asked if he uses cryptography on his computers, he said categorically not. Asked if he would use strong encryption in the Internet browser, [he said] he does not use encrypted communications on the Internet and in his computer system. That he does not use nor has encrypted data in his systems, nor used enciphering to mask, hide or to prevent access to data contained in his systems. Asked if he uses encryption or enciphering in e-mail communications, he declared: that he did not know what it is or how to use encryption.
--- Asked about how he could justify the presence of several encrypted or enciphered files, of credentials to access programs, in his systems, seeing he is an experienced user with more than ten years in the use of personal computers and no-one else had access to his network without authorization, he said: "I would not know how to justify that."
--- Asked how he explains the contradiction of maintaining a contradiction between the maintenance of his network unprotected or "open" and his experience that must be telling him to act to the contrary in respect of the security of his network, he said "not to have thought of that."
No more was said.
14th May 2007
As for his criminal background he said:
--- He has never been before a court, nor been arrested.
Asked if he wanted to respond to the facts that are imputed against him, he responded:
--- Affirmatively.
--- He comes to the case in order to clarify the facts with which he is charged, dispensing with the presence of a lawyer and an interpreter as he understands perfectly the Portuguese language in its oral and written form. He was already present in the procedural activities as an interpreter.
--- Born in London, England, about 33 years ago. His parents have lived in Portugal, which his mother still does (Casa Liliana) given that his father died when he was twelve years old. He came to Portugal when he was two weeks old, returning to the United Kingdom in 1989, returning to Portugal in 2005, where he has been living in Praia da Luz, Lagos. He has also lived in Lagos and in Almádena.
--- In England he lived in various localities, Norfolk, Devon - Sidford and Norwich.
--- He has two siblings, one a male who is 38 years old and a female who is 35/36 years old, [both of whom] have also lived in Portugal with the deponent. However the respondent returned to the United Kingdom and his siblings also eventually returned to their country of birth, where they currently live. He has four nephews, two couples, in age from four to sixteen years. He has a healthy family environment, of good relations and frequent contacts.
--- On the educational background, said he did not know whether he began in Portugal or the UK. He attended primary school in Espiche, later the International School of Porches and soon after the Secondary School in Lagos, which he left by the seventh year.
--- He doe not have technical and professional courses [qualifications], but attended an accountancy course in the UK.
--- After the death of his father, he left the school, that being the main reason, and then often consumed some drugs and alcohol. Five to six years later, his Mother became involved with another person, which disagreeing, took him back to Portugal [NOTE *], in conjunction with a state of passion [love], for a British girl.
--- In the United Kingdom has pursued several activities from canvasser of customers for window sales, factory worker in the meat business and seller of cars. In the south of England worked as an assistant to geriatrics, search and rescue of shipwrecks, before the meat factory and trade in automobiles. Then he came to Portugal where, always, he worked in real estate.
--- As for his wife, Dxxx MURAT, from whom he is in the process of divorce, he met her when he was 19 years old, in the south of the United Kingdom, resulting from that relationship a daughter born in 2002. Besides his wife he never had many lasting relationships, only fleeting situations. He is separated since 2005, which corresponds to his return to Portugal, together with her. After the separation his wife returned to England, he believes in August, with their daughter, Sxxxx MURAT. He only returned to see his daughter when he went to the United Kingdom in October and November of that same year. In May, June of 2006, he went back to the United Kingdom to see his daughter, which is repeated once again in November, though he says that in this time gap he made another visit, but cannot be sure. Again he made a further visit in December, in time for Christmas. Earlier this year he visited in January, returning to Portugal on May 01, the public holiday. When he goes to the United Kingdom he stays in the residence of his Grandmother or sister.
--- Generally, his movement to Portugal was to hold several meetings in order to form the company, MICHAELA was also involved in this activity, which was always linked to real estate. He states that she was in the UK with the respondent, accompanied by her daughter on three occasions.
--- His Mother, receives a pension from Portugal and England, a total of €700, having means [assets] through inheritance and sale of a property.
--- Currently his closest female friend is MICHAELA WALCZUCH, with whom he worked in the company "Remax" in April 2005, beginning the close friendship a few months later. With her he is trying to open a company [firm] in the real estate business, which will be named ROMIGEN, already owning a website. It is with her that he passes his leisure time, usually walking. Speaking about the Internet, he uses this tool to contact Michaela, and for visiting sites of a sexual nature, in particular - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - to which he does not access daily.
--- He has several e-mail addresses, namely:
[6 e-mail addresses edited out]
--- With respect to Michaela, she has e-mail addresses:
[3 e-mail addresses edited out]
--- As regards his daily life, he said he made several meetings with business partners, or future partners, it being that these meetings are conducted at restaurants or at the residence of Michaela, located at Rua Adelina ... Lagos.
--- During the previous week, 09 May, he intended to return to the United Kingdom, but has not done so due to the disappearance of the child, since he was already helping the authorities. He changed the flight to Saturday 12th of his own accord, and for the same reason, at the request of Police, he said, once again he changed the journey [for his return to England] to the 19th. The first change in the trip cost the respondent 41 pounds.
The Second amendment had no cost, as he explained the situation to the operator "Flybe." The trip to the UK was for the restoration of his house, and a medical consultation scheduled for the 14th.
--- Asked, he uses his mother's cars, VW Transporter, whose number plate is he does not know, and "Skoda Fabia", does not know the registration, which is in the repair shop "Autojoteca", next to Torre, Lagos. Currently and given that his mother uses the VW at the stand that she has set up in Luz, he rented a Hyundai Getz, at the cost to his Mother.
--- Relating to the events under investigation, he said he arrived on May 01 at 09:30 at the airport in Faro, coming from the city of Exeter, which has an airport. His address, that is the home of his grandmother that he is restoring, is at Sidmouth in Devon. His sister lives in two different locations, both in Exeter.
--- At the airport he was met by his mother, in the VW that the respondent drove. He went to a petrol station at the airport exit, that had closed the toilets. He didn't eat anything or fill up the car. He then drove to the A22, where he stopped at the first service station on the way, M24. He drank a "galao" [a typical breakfast drink comprising 50% coffee and 50% hot milk] as did his mother. He ate a meat pie and his mother a "folhado misto" [a cheese and ham croissant]. They resumed the journey, having stopped at another M24 station [NOTE: "M24" is the name of the 24 hour convenience shops at many GALP service stations], where they drank coffee. Soon after they went directly to Casa Liliana in Luz, where he arrived at 11:30-12:00. Soon after and without unpacking his suitcase or entering his home, he went in the VW to see Michaela at her house in Lagos, about 12:00-12:30, where he took some gifts for both mother and daughter. He remained in her house, he thinks, until 15:00-15:30, having offered the gifts and talked with the entire family, including the father Luis Antonio, in addition to drinking tea. He does not remember having eaten lunch, or if someone else had lunch. He said goodbye to those present, left the apartment and drove himself home, where he arrived at 16:00. He does not remember having gone to another place, before arriving at his residence. Once at home, he does not know if he went out again.
--- The following day (02/05), he got up around 09:00 and left home by 10:00-10:30. He went to Lagos in the VW, to the home of Michaela, where he arrived at 10.40 am. He entered her house, where she was alone. He remained there for a short time talking. They left there and went in the VW to the centre of Lagos. He parked in one of the streets and went to the residence of FRANCISCO PAGARETE, who was not there, but his girlfriend Sonia was there. Next he went to meet his future real estate partners in their shop, called "Putos and Graúdos", located in Lagos, not knowing the street, whose line of business is the sale of clothing and is owned by JORGE S. He does not know the time. After the meeting in the store they went to a cafe but does not know the name, now four people - the respondent, Michaela, Jorge S. and his son Jason. Soon after went to another cafe located in Lagos Marina, less noisy, where they talked about business. He consumed a "galao" drink, but does not know if the others did. The bill was paid by MICHAELA in the first cafe he thinks, and he has no idea who paid in the second. In that cafe they spent some time until 13:50-14:00.
--- After the Marina they walked back to the VW and then had lunch in the restaurant "Bem Bom" in Lagos, this time only with Michaela, where he arrived a little after 14:00. He ate roast meat. Lunch ended by 15:15-15:20, they went to the school of Cxxxxxxx (daughter of Michaela, who is 8 years of age) in order to collect her, they arrived five minutes later. They went again to the home of PAGARETE, who this time was at home. They were talking next to the VW, to Michaela about the divorce and the respondent about buildings [properties]. He does not remember the time that he left from there. He returned to MICHAELA's house in Lagos, with her and her daughter. He entered the apartment. He does not know what they did or talked about. He remained in the apartment, with the mother and daughter for a long time, LUIS having arrived by 21:00 or shortly after, when they were having dinner of pork or turkey. He left Michaela's home about 22:30-23:00, got the VW and went to his house in Luz, parking the vehicle in front of house. He spoke with his mother who was awake. He is certain that he remained at home until the next morning. Turned on the computer and played cards, going to sleep at 01:00-01:30.
--- On 03 awakened at 08:00-09:00, took a bath, dressed and drank some tea. Left home at 10:00, got the VW and presumes having gone to Lagos to see Michaela. He does not know where he parked the VW. He went up to the apartment, rang the bell, Michaela opened the door. Only Michaela was at home. They talked about the website for their real estate project in the lounge and the kitchen for a long time. The two left the apartment around 12:00 in the VW. They took the road towards Portimao and before Odiáxere, they went round the access roundabout to the A22, direction Portimao - Lagos. Ten to fifteen minutes after leaving the apartment, they came the petrol pumps of the Galp-M24, on the A22, where they had lunch, he does not remember what and for less than an hour. They left the pump station and returned to the apartment, where they were once again talking about various things. They collected Cxxxxxxx from school in the VW at 15.30 and the three met with Jorge Sxxxx and his son, he does not know where, but believes it was at the Lagos Marina. There they went into a café whose name he can't recall, next to a play area for children, where Cxxxxxxx played. They spoke about "Romigen" and the meeting finished late, perhaps by 18:00-19:00. Everybody left together, went to the VW which was parked in the car park at the rear of the Marina, they gave a ride to Jorge S. and his son to the bus station, next to the CTT in the city centre Lagos. Then he went to the home of MICHAELA, close to 19.00. He said farewell to them in the VW and headed for his residence, where he arrived between 19.15 and 19.30. He parked the VW in front of the house and entered. He does not know if his mother was at home, but thinks so because it was late for her to walk the dogs, as they usually leave at 17:00 and return at 19.00. After entering, he may have taken some tea and turned on the TV or it was already on. He may also have read a newspaper. He talked with the mother, who if she was not there had arrived shortly afterwards, about Romigen. He ate a sandwich of cheese and ham sitting in the kitchen with his mother, until 22:00 or 23:00. Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA when she went to a Jehovah witnesses' meeting between 20:00 and 22:00, which is why he didn't phone her, because she turns her phone off. He does not know if he called her after 22:00, but accepts that possibility. He does not remember having used the computer. He was home with his mother, when at 22:30 or a little later, he heard a siren of an ambulance or police. He commented on that with his mother, however, did not leave the house to investigate. He did not leave again until the morning, having gone to bed around midnight.
--- On Friday, 04/05, woke around 09:00, took a bath, went to the kitchen to his mother, the latter told him that something terrible had happened, because a child had disappeared in Praia da Luz, according to 'Sky News' that she had been watching. At once the respondent and his Mother went to look in the garden, walled with a fence of 1m in height, checking if the child had managed to enter, which in a way was almost impossible without aid. In one corner of the garden is a greenhouse, which was searched, and then they saw an English passer-by on the outside, he does not know the identity. When asked about this, he was told that the child had disappeared. Accompanied by that person, he went to the place of the disappearance, and was introduced to the parents of the child, as he spoke the two languages, Portuguese and English. Assumes that the passer-by would be staying at the Luz Ocean Club, in the block opposite the home of the respondent. This individual already knew the parents of MADELEINE, or met them at the time. He started a conversation with the family of the child, offering to help. Together with an officer of the GNR and an employee of the resort with several keys, entered several apartments, opened with the keys or by the tenants in order to locate the child. Some of the apartments were closed and there were no keys, these sites were flagged by the GNR man.
--- At that time he met John Hill, manager of MARK WARNER, who supplied them with more keys to other apartments.
--- Prior to this occasion, he did not know the interior of the "Ocean Club", only entering the resort after the disappearance.
--- In the meantime the tracker dogs arrived that undertook a more rigorous form of search.
--- Then, having told several of the present people, including officers of the GNR, that he spoke two languages, he was taken to some places to make verbal translations for people who wanted to testify, remaining in that role during the afternoon. On the evening of that day by 19:00-19:30 went to see Michaela, returning to Luz about 23:00-23:30.
--- On Saturday he continued the verbal translations next to the GNR mobile police station, making various contacts with the press, and that night went again to Lagos.
--- When asked he said the relationship with the press was somewhat troubled.
--- He clarifies therefore, that on the Sunday he spoke to the wife of Batista, owner of the supermarket, not knowing her name, asking her to leave the establishment open in order to supply the people who were there. The supermarket did not stay open due to lack of members of staff, however they gave several litres of water that were placed at the entrance of Block 5. He also asked John Hill that electricity would be supplied to the mobile GNR police station.
--- At some point on Monday, a well-known acquaintance since the age of twelve years, named GAYNOR Exxxxxx, told him that he was the main suspect among the journalists. Subsequently he learned that she was working for "Sky", with a journalist, and she was told that they were comparing with a case of homicide that occurred in the United Kingdom, in which two girls had been killed and that the perpetrators of the crime were close to the place of the investigation. From then on he refused to speak with journalists and alerted the the Police to this. That refusal [of his] was to not provide his full name, nor to allow the taking of a photograph.
--- He said he had pornography on the computer. He has pictures with women over 18 years. He has no photographs of men. Just naked women, not sexually explicit, not remembering if they were using phallic objects. He has no record of violent sex, or sadomasochism or submission. He does not have images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals. He does not use an encrypted external server or encrypted content.
--- Asked he said he has nothing to do with the disappearance of the child, nor anything about this case.
--- Asked he clarified that never has anyone accessed, without his authorization, his computer systems, a total of three, one an ACER (which has the Vista operating system installed), another an ASUS brand and his own an LG, these two systems having the XP operating system installed. That the computer systems were interconnected and shared the access to the INTERNET through an ADSL MODEM-ROUTER, by mere chance, by choice of his mother. That the contract for access to the INTERNET was signed by his mother with the company supplying INTERNET services, from Portugal TELECOM, named "SAPO". Asked he said he does not see himself as an expert in computing and communications but these are areas that are not unknown to him, given that he had his first computer some ten years ago.
--- That the current ADSL Modem-Router equipment is, as far as he recalls, an SMC brand and it makes it possible to operate a network of computers, via "network-without-wires." [WiFi; wireless networking]. Asked, he responded that the computer systems he had in his house, have clocks, date and time, set to the official time; that he does not know [how] to explain why the clock of the equipment that permitted him to connect to the INTERNET, the SMC ADSL modem-router, was unsynchronized. That this is due to the fact of it having been to an outside company, "125 computers", with its main office or place of business in the town of Mexilhoeira-Grande. That regarding the remaining computers it was the declarer who had configured them. That on the computer systems in question were installed normal programs.
--- Asked about what he considers to be normal programs, he said they would be the operating system and work tools typical of the Microsoft family, such as word processing, spreadsheet, the Internet browser (Internet Explorer) or anti-virus programs. That his commercial activity is in the area of real estate, promoting and making it pay through advertising homes for sale on the INTERNET and that the programs installed in the computers were in accordance with [needed for] his commercial activity. Asked about if, unlike the normal programs that he described, he had kept or had had installed on his systems [any] abnormal or peculiar [strange] programs, he replied that he only has a program called "CCCleaner" for the improvement of the performance of the system, not retaining programs that erase traces of child pornography. That that program "CCCleaner" was installed by his son three years ago, which statement [for the record] the respondent corrects and declares that his son informed him of the existence of the "CCCleaner" program years before, it having been the declarer who installed it on the XP systems. That he does not know the full potential of the "CCCleaner" program, particularly those that are said in this deposition by the declarer: erasing the history of navigation in INTERNET, of temporary files, exchange of files, recently used documents, register [record] of applications (registry), the various registry files (log's), the "garbage can" or "recycle bin"; asked about the effects of deleting the program, said he was not an expert on the subject and does not know the program well. Asked how he does not know well the effects of the program, if he has known it for more than three years, he said that he is not expert.
--- Asked if he uses cryptography on his computers, he said categorically not. Asked if he would use strong encryption in the Internet browser, [he said] he does not use encrypted communications on the Internet and in his computer system. That he does not use nor has encrypted data in his systems, nor used enciphering to mask, hide or to prevent access to data contained in his systems. Asked if he uses encryption or enciphering in e-mail communications, he declared: that he did not know what it is or how to use encryption.
--- Asked about how he could justify the presence of several encrypted or enciphered files, of credentials to access programs, in his systems, seeing he is an experienced user with more than ten years in the use of personal computers and no-one else had access to his network without authorization, he said: "I would not know how to justify that."
--- Asked how he explains the contradiction of maintaining a contradiction between the maintenance of his network unprotected or "open" and his experience that must be telling him to act to the contrary in respect of the security of his network, he said "not to have thought of that."
No more was said.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 30.09.17 15:36
Witness Statement - Yvonne Martin
Dated: 13th June 2007
[Important note: Ms Martin, Social Services and Child Protection worker was accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese.]
She says that she has lived in Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal andfor the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works.
During the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the witness was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at about 07H00 she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on May 03, 2007.
As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple, she arrived there at about 09H30.
She clarifies that she did not leave immediately for Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home but left at around 09H00.
At first, she could not locate the exact site where the family was staying on holiday. Upon seeing a police patrol car which passed close by her, she asked the police if they could show her the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared and where the parents were staying.
At the scene, she found a group of three people, two males and one female.
She went over to the group and identified herself. Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple.
The couple was visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely.
The third person never identified himself, upon the witness's insistence the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family.
She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.
Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them every hour.
As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied yes.
She clarifies that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and "get" his child.
After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.
At this moment, the witness notices that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials issued by the British government to calm them down.
Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.
At this moment, the witness wishes to clarify that, in England, anyone who works with children, whether a doctor, police officer or social worker, has to have a proper credential certified by the police and that this was one of the documents she showed to the McCanns.
Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.
The witness then asked whether anyone from the Medical Centre had been with Kate as she was very agitated and needed some support, she was told they hadn't.
At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning.
Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The witness alerted the couple to the type of statements they should give and that it would be better for them to keep silent.
At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time.
After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else.
The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal.
As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.
She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt.
When asked whether that it would be possible to identify him from a photograph, the witness replied yes.
She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied no but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.
No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Dated: 13th June 2007
[Important note: Ms Martin, Social Services and Child Protection worker was accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese.]
She says that she has lived in Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal andfor the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works.
During the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the witness was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at about 07H00 she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on May 03, 2007.
As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple, she arrived there at about 09H30.
She clarifies that she did not leave immediately for Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home but left at around 09H00.
At first, she could not locate the exact site where the family was staying on holiday. Upon seeing a police patrol car which passed close by her, she asked the police if they could show her the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared and where the parents were staying.
At the scene, she found a group of three people, two males and one female.
She went over to the group and identified herself. Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple.
The couple was visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely.
The third person never identified himself, upon the witness's insistence the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family.
She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.
Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them every hour.
As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied yes.
She clarifies that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and "get" his child.
After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.
At this moment, the witness notices that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials issued by the British government to calm them down.
Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.
At this moment, the witness wishes to clarify that, in England, anyone who works with children, whether a doctor, police officer or social worker, has to have a proper credential certified by the police and that this was one of the documents she showed to the McCanns.
Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.
The witness then asked whether anyone from the Medical Centre had been with Kate as she was very agitated and needed some support, she was told they hadn't.
At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning.
Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The witness alerted the couple to the type of statements they should give and that it would be better for them to keep silent.
At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time.
After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else.
The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal.
As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.
She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt.
When asked whether that it would be possible to identify him from a photograph, the witness replied yes.
She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied no but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.
No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 30.09.17 15:50
Witness Statement - Yvonne Martin
Dated: 14th November 2007
[Important note: As Ms Martin does not speak Portuguese she was accompanied by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceição Silva who translated all questions and answers into English.]
The witness has given a previous statement to this police force regarding the facts in question. This took place on 13-06-2007 and led to the inquiry of the statement that was taken. The witness confirms the complete integrity of that statement, everything was fully reproduced for this file. The witness was also shown attached page showing the places of work where she carried out her professional activities as Social Services Manager for Child Protection, having also confirmed that these were the cities where she carried out her professional activities.
She states that in the course of her contact with Madeleine's parents, described in detail in her previous statements, Kate told her that the child had been taken by a couple. During the meeting they had, the details of which are contained in her previous statement, she did not have the opportunity to ask in depth about this question nor about any other.
With regards to the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met them, and who was later identified as David Payne, she reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual intervened in a situation related to a professional activity of the witness. She clarifies that neither on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, can she remember concretely the place or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne, but that she continues to think that the same individual is familiar to her but cannot state the particular situation.
She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember
She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.
She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.
She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.
She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.
No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Dated: 14th November 2007
[Important note: As Ms Martin does not speak Portuguese she was accompanied by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceição Silva who translated all questions and answers into English.]
The witness has given a previous statement to this police force regarding the facts in question. This took place on 13-06-2007 and led to the inquiry of the statement that was taken. The witness confirms the complete integrity of that statement, everything was fully reproduced for this file. The witness was also shown attached page showing the places of work where she carried out her professional activities as Social Services Manager for Child Protection, having also confirmed that these were the cities where she carried out her professional activities.
She states that in the course of her contact with Madeleine's parents, described in detail in her previous statements, Kate told her that the child had been taken by a couple. During the meeting they had, the details of which are contained in her previous statement, she did not have the opportunity to ask in depth about this question nor about any other.
With regards to the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met them, and who was later identified as David Payne, she reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual intervened in a situation related to a professional activity of the witness. She clarifies that neither on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, can she remember concretely the place or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne, but that she continues to think that the same individual is familiar to her but cannot state the particular situation.
She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember
She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.
She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.
She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.
She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.
No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 03.10.17 0:54
Witness Statement - Marina Paulo Raposo Batista Castela
Dated: 16th May 2007
Place of Work: Ocean Club
Occupation: General Manager
She comes to the process as a witness. She heard about the disappearance on 4th May when she arrived at work at about 09.30.
She saw the suspect, Robert Murat, for the first time on that day at about 12.30 when the witness went to meet GNR officers whom she cannot identify, to open the doors for them and speak to guests staying in apartments in block 6. The objective was for the police to talk to these guests and show them the photo of the girl and establish whether they had any information that could lead to discovering her whereabouts.
When she was beginning this task together with GNR officers, this individual appeared, she does not know from where, he immediately saw what operations were going on, speaking ostensibly to the guests from the first two apartments, explaining to them what they were doing there, showing much will and anxiety in the transmission of this information.
Given his behaviour, for a few minutes the witness thought that he belonged to one of the security forces, namely the PJ.
The GNR officer who was with them did not speak and English nor say anything.
After the second apartment, the witness says that Robert's attitude was not the most correct, as he spoke to the guests in a very dry and affirmative way and she took the initiative to introduce herself to the clients, not letting him speak.
She thanks that is the reason why he immediately disappeared and did not accompany them to the rest of the apartments.
During the time he was with them that afternoon, several times he said how sorry he was about Madeleine's disappearance, that he had a daughter of the same age and that we had to do everything possible to find the girl.
She had not seen this individual before this incident and knows nothing about him or his lifestyle.
She only saw him again on the morning of 7th May when she came to make statements to the PJ officers in apartment 6 of block 6. She was in the building between 11.00 and 13.30 and remembers that the individual entered and left the building at free will. They said hello to each other and did not speak any further that day.
On the following day 8th May, when she took some cleaning staff to the PJ station for questioning, Robert went to her and greeted her with two kisses. He asked her name. She did not see him again that day and thinks he was with the PJ officers.
She saw him again the following day 9th May at about 10.30 at the PJ station. At that moment he approached her and said the witness was known by a friend of his, Michaela. The witness confirmed this fact.
After this day she saw him no further. Apart from the contacts she had with him she had seen him on other occasions from a distance, in the company of journalists.
When questioned, she said that she knows Michaela (she has a German surname which the witness cannot pronounce) who lives behind the Del Rei restaurant in Lagos for the past 10 years.
They got to know each other through both being Jehovah's witnesses and frequenting the same church, opposite the financial building in Lagos.
That she would attend the meetings with her boyfriend at that time, called Luis Antonio. Afterwards they got married and went to live in the apartment where they still both reside. She does not know whether they are still married today.
She knows that about 3 years ago, Michaela left home and went to live with another man near Faro, the witness does not know whom this individual was. She does know that Michaela was away for a little while, returning home.
Since that time (about 3 years ago) she has not had any further contact with Michaela because she was disassociated from the Jehovah's witnesses of her own will and due to the reasons mentioned above.
That about 2 or 3 months ago she was readmitted to the JW . last Sunday, on 13th May they were together at a meeting where she was with her daughter. They greeted each other and the witness told her that she had met her partner, Robert. She confirmed that they had a business together on the Internet and that he had come to live in Portugal to expand his business, having arrived recently.
The witness says that he went to help the police in P da L with the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. She (MW) said that this was typical of him, to want to help. She added that he had even delayed medical tests in the UK in order to be in Portugal and accompany the investigation. Michaela appeared a bit displeased, due to the fact that their Internet business had experienced delays.
She does not know whether Michaela had a relationship with Robert as he was never referred to on this level and she never saw them together.
When asked about Michaela,s personality, the witness said she was a very cold person namely in the interpersonal relationships with her mother in law, daughter and with friends. At the time she was married to Luis Antonio (whom she still lives with) she did not work and liked to take care of her appearance. Given the coldness of her personality, they never had a close relationship.
The she speaks, Portuguese, German and English well. She says she had good computer skills. She has not seen her in the OC area for almost 7 years, which is when she came to live with Luis Antonio, who cleaned the resort pool.
Recently Michaela has been working in real estate companies. At this moment, as far as the witness knows, she has a home selling business with Robert on Internet and that they are in the process of expansion, to include other services.
She recognises Robert as the man presented as a suspect in the abduction of Madeleine on the television during the last days and as resident of Casa Liliana situated close to where the events occurred.
According to what Michaela told her, he spends a lot of time in England. Due to the witness's profession she passed by the house every day (the OC has various lost nearby, called Palm Bay) and she has never seen that man there, which makes her think that he spent a lot of time abroad or in another place.
As far as she knows, Michaela was also in the UK with her daughter during the carnival holiday in 2007.
No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Dated: 16th May 2007
Place of Work: Ocean Club
Occupation: General Manager
She comes to the process as a witness. She heard about the disappearance on 4th May when she arrived at work at about 09.30.
She saw the suspect, Robert Murat, for the first time on that day at about 12.30 when the witness went to meet GNR officers whom she cannot identify, to open the doors for them and speak to guests staying in apartments in block 6. The objective was for the police to talk to these guests and show them the photo of the girl and establish whether they had any information that could lead to discovering her whereabouts.
When she was beginning this task together with GNR officers, this individual appeared, she does not know from where, he immediately saw what operations were going on, speaking ostensibly to the guests from the first two apartments, explaining to them what they were doing there, showing much will and anxiety in the transmission of this information.
Given his behaviour, for a few minutes the witness thought that he belonged to one of the security forces, namely the PJ.
The GNR officer who was with them did not speak and English nor say anything.
After the second apartment, the witness says that Robert's attitude was not the most correct, as he spoke to the guests in a very dry and affirmative way and she took the initiative to introduce herself to the clients, not letting him speak.
She thanks that is the reason why he immediately disappeared and did not accompany them to the rest of the apartments.
During the time he was with them that afternoon, several times he said how sorry he was about Madeleine's disappearance, that he had a daughter of the same age and that we had to do everything possible to find the girl.
She had not seen this individual before this incident and knows nothing about him or his lifestyle.
She only saw him again on the morning of 7th May when she came to make statements to the PJ officers in apartment 6 of block 6. She was in the building between 11.00 and 13.30 and remembers that the individual entered and left the building at free will. They said hello to each other and did not speak any further that day.
On the following day 8th May, when she took some cleaning staff to the PJ station for questioning, Robert went to her and greeted her with two kisses. He asked her name. She did not see him again that day and thinks he was with the PJ officers.
She saw him again the following day 9th May at about 10.30 at the PJ station. At that moment he approached her and said the witness was known by a friend of his, Michaela. The witness confirmed this fact.
After this day she saw him no further. Apart from the contacts she had with him she had seen him on other occasions from a distance, in the company of journalists.
When questioned, she said that she knows Michaela (she has a German surname which the witness cannot pronounce) who lives behind the Del Rei restaurant in Lagos for the past 10 years.
They got to know each other through both being Jehovah's witnesses and frequenting the same church, opposite the financial building in Lagos.
That she would attend the meetings with her boyfriend at that time, called Luis Antonio. Afterwards they got married and went to live in the apartment where they still both reside. She does not know whether they are still married today.
She knows that about 3 years ago, Michaela left home and went to live with another man near Faro, the witness does not know whom this individual was. She does know that Michaela was away for a little while, returning home.
Since that time (about 3 years ago) she has not had any further contact with Michaela because she was disassociated from the Jehovah's witnesses of her own will and due to the reasons mentioned above.
That about 2 or 3 months ago she was readmitted to the JW . last Sunday, on 13th May they were together at a meeting where she was with her daughter. They greeted each other and the witness told her that she had met her partner, Robert. She confirmed that they had a business together on the Internet and that he had come to live in Portugal to expand his business, having arrived recently.
The witness says that he went to help the police in P da L with the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. She (MW) said that this was typical of him, to want to help. She added that he had even delayed medical tests in the UK in order to be in Portugal and accompany the investigation. Michaela appeared a bit displeased, due to the fact that their Internet business had experienced delays.
She does not know whether Michaela had a relationship with Robert as he was never referred to on this level and she never saw them together.
When asked about Michaela,s personality, the witness said she was a very cold person namely in the interpersonal relationships with her mother in law, daughter and with friends. At the time she was married to Luis Antonio (whom she still lives with) she did not work and liked to take care of her appearance. Given the coldness of her personality, they never had a close relationship.
The she speaks, Portuguese, German and English well. She says she had good computer skills. She has not seen her in the OC area for almost 7 years, which is when she came to live with Luis Antonio, who cleaned the resort pool.
Recently Michaela has been working in real estate companies. At this moment, as far as the witness knows, she has a home selling business with Robert on Internet and that they are in the process of expansion, to include other services.
She recognises Robert as the man presented as a suspect in the abduction of Madeleine on the television during the last days and as resident of Casa Liliana situated close to where the events occurred.
According to what Michaela told her, he spends a lot of time in England. Due to the witness's profession she passed by the house every day (the OC has various lost nearby, called Palm Bay) and she has never seen that man there, which makes her think that he spent a lot of time abroad or in another place.
As far as she knows, Michaela was also in the UK with her daughter during the carnival holiday in 2007.
No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 19.10.17 15:23
Witness Statement Nuno Manuel Lourenco De Jesus - 5th May 2007
That he comes to the process as a witness and states:
He is of Portuguese nationality but immigrated to Germany 14 years ago. He married a German citizen in Denmark. He has two children, whose names are L*******., almost three years old and a girl whose name is L*****, who is almost four years old.
He was on holiday in Portugal from the 22nd of April until the 13th of the current month. He stayed with his mother who lives in Sagres, and was accompanied by his two children and his wife B******, who does not speak Portuguese.
On the 29th of the past month, after he had returned his rental car, he walked (since it was close by) to Mareta beach in Sagres. He arrived there around 15H00. He and his family went to the play area. Between 16H00 and 17H00, he cannot be more precise, he noticed a male individual holding a small silver-coloured camera who, in a disguised fashion, was taking pictures of his children. He speaks of 'disguised fashion' as the individual, instead of holding the camera to his face, was taking pictures from the abdominal area of his body. The witness overheard the 'clicking' noise when pictures were taken.
After having taken three or four pictures of his children, he verified that that the individual took more pictures of two male children, nine and five years of age. These were children of a couple who were at the witness's side and who were playing with a ball. He knows of them as they live in Sagres, a short distance from his mother. He does not know their names.
For this reason, he supposes that his children were photographed to be abducted or to be used for illicit reasons. He began looking at the individual indignantly and aggressively and the same individual taking the pictures then left the area. But even before this, the individual took more pictures of the four children in a disguised fashion, and of others with the camera to his face. This individual also got on his knees on the sand to take additional pictures.
After leaving the area, the witness did not see the individual and did not again think about the incident.
At around 18H00/18H30, as it got a bit colder, they left the beach and headed toward the esplanade to buy sweets at a pastry shop called 'Marreiros', about 400 metres from the beach, in Sagres. As he and his family were sitting (the witness was having a coffee), he saw the same individual passing the pastry shop and heading toward the outer perimeter of the esplanade. He noticed that the individual constantly looked at the children and entered the shop, but left immediately after. At this moment, his daughter, began racing around the tables as they were ready to leave.
Seeing this, the individual began to walk rapidly toward the witnesses daughter crossing the witnesses family as they were departing. Luckily or by chance, the witness's daughter stopped next to the witness as it appeared the individual tried to stop them from leaving, and once again entered the pastry shop and again left without buying anything. This same individual left toward the back of a kiosk which exists in the area. Shaken by this situation, and without the least doubt that the individuals intention was to abduct this daughter, he got out his mobile and began taking various pictures of the individual, from the front, and in such a way that the individual would clearly see that the witness was taking pictures. This did not work however, as the witness had his finger on the lens of the mobile camera. Even though the individual had left the kiosk area, he noticed that the individual had now situated himself next to the wheel of a grey- coloured, recent model Renault Clio. The witness noted the registration plate on a piece of paper which he eventually discarded, as will be explained later in this statement. This individual was accompanied by a woman, sitting in the passenger seat. The witness managed to take a picture of the vehicle which he handed over to the police, and which is now exhibited. The picture is recorded as having been taken at 18H08 on 29/04/2007.
After taking the picture of the vehicle, with the date/time stamp recorded by the mobile phone, a few minutes later the couple in question left in the direction of the Sagres Fortaleza. Thinking that the recorded license plate would no longer be of any use, the witness threw paper in the rubbish or on the ground.
Yesterday, the 4th, he went to a rental car agency. The name of the agency was TURINFO, and is located in Sagres. It was around 13H00. The employee present told them to return at 13H30, at which time the manager would arrive. He proceeded to a bar called 'Rasa dos Ventos' where he ordered a coffee to pass the time. At a later point, looking outward, he saw the same individual, dressed in exactly the same fashion, but without a hat. This same individual left and he did not see him again, nor did he see his car. It appeared that the individual was alone and on foot.
Upon returning home, he recounted the story to his wife who told him to go to the police as they had already heard about the disappearance of Madeleine. The witnesses daughter bears a striking resemblance to Madeleines images.
That very morning, the witness contacted the police and told them what had happened.
Of the vehicle registration plate, he only remembered the partial plate numbers AV and 67.
In so far as the suspect is concerned, he describes him as masculine, Caucasian with Latin colouring, curly dark brown hair that ran to his neck and in a pony tail. He was between 35/40 years of age, of medium complexion, and around 170 to 175 cm in height. He did not have any particular marks or signals and did not wear rings or other jewellery. He wore a cream coloured beach hat. He also wore dark glasses.
He wore cloth trousers and a coat/jacket of the same material which was cream coloured. Almost the same colour to the hat he had worn previously. His shoes were dark brown: the type that need to be shined or polished.
As regards the woman with the individual, as he saw her seated in the vehicle, he can only state that she had short hair which appeared to be white in colour and very shiny. In the sitting position, her head was below the car head rest. She appeared to be skinny and Caucasian. She did not use glasses. He can say no more as she was difficult to see.
When questioned, the witness states that he could recognise the individual in person and from a photograph or sketch .
At this moment, the interview is interrupted to show the witness photographs of individuals with similar physical characteristics.
These were returned to the investigators with negative result, as confirmed in the appendix.
There are no additional elements to offer the investigation.
Nothing more was said, reads , ratifies, signs.
That he comes to the process as a witness and states:
He is of Portuguese nationality but immigrated to Germany 14 years ago. He married a German citizen in Denmark. He has two children, whose names are L*******., almost three years old and a girl whose name is L*****, who is almost four years old.
He was on holiday in Portugal from the 22nd of April until the 13th of the current month. He stayed with his mother who lives in Sagres, and was accompanied by his two children and his wife B******, who does not speak Portuguese.
On the 29th of the past month, after he had returned his rental car, he walked (since it was close by) to Mareta beach in Sagres. He arrived there around 15H00. He and his family went to the play area. Between 16H00 and 17H00, he cannot be more precise, he noticed a male individual holding a small silver-coloured camera who, in a disguised fashion, was taking pictures of his children. He speaks of 'disguised fashion' as the individual, instead of holding the camera to his face, was taking pictures from the abdominal area of his body. The witness overheard the 'clicking' noise when pictures were taken.
After having taken three or four pictures of his children, he verified that that the individual took more pictures of two male children, nine and five years of age. These were children of a couple who were at the witness's side and who were playing with a ball. He knows of them as they live in Sagres, a short distance from his mother. He does not know their names.
For this reason, he supposes that his children were photographed to be abducted or to be used for illicit reasons. He began looking at the individual indignantly and aggressively and the same individual taking the pictures then left the area. But even before this, the individual took more pictures of the four children in a disguised fashion, and of others with the camera to his face. This individual also got on his knees on the sand to take additional pictures.
After leaving the area, the witness did not see the individual and did not again think about the incident.
At around 18H00/18H30, as it got a bit colder, they left the beach and headed toward the esplanade to buy sweets at a pastry shop called 'Marreiros', about 400 metres from the beach, in Sagres. As he and his family were sitting (the witness was having a coffee), he saw the same individual passing the pastry shop and heading toward the outer perimeter of the esplanade. He noticed that the individual constantly looked at the children and entered the shop, but left immediately after. At this moment, his daughter, began racing around the tables as they were ready to leave.
Seeing this, the individual began to walk rapidly toward the witnesses daughter crossing the witnesses family as they were departing. Luckily or by chance, the witness's daughter stopped next to the witness as it appeared the individual tried to stop them from leaving, and once again entered the pastry shop and again left without buying anything. This same individual left toward the back of a kiosk which exists in the area. Shaken by this situation, and without the least doubt that the individuals intention was to abduct this daughter, he got out his mobile and began taking various pictures of the individual, from the front, and in such a way that the individual would clearly see that the witness was taking pictures. This did not work however, as the witness had his finger on the lens of the mobile camera. Even though the individual had left the kiosk area, he noticed that the individual had now situated himself next to the wheel of a grey- coloured, recent model Renault Clio. The witness noted the registration plate on a piece of paper which he eventually discarded, as will be explained later in this statement. This individual was accompanied by a woman, sitting in the passenger seat. The witness managed to take a picture of the vehicle which he handed over to the police, and which is now exhibited. The picture is recorded as having been taken at 18H08 on 29/04/2007.
After taking the picture of the vehicle, with the date/time stamp recorded by the mobile phone, a few minutes later the couple in question left in the direction of the Sagres Fortaleza. Thinking that the recorded license plate would no longer be of any use, the witness threw paper in the rubbish or on the ground.
Yesterday, the 4th, he went to a rental car agency. The name of the agency was TURINFO, and is located in Sagres. It was around 13H00. The employee present told them to return at 13H30, at which time the manager would arrive. He proceeded to a bar called 'Rasa dos Ventos' where he ordered a coffee to pass the time. At a later point, looking outward, he saw the same individual, dressed in exactly the same fashion, but without a hat. This same individual left and he did not see him again, nor did he see his car. It appeared that the individual was alone and on foot.
Upon returning home, he recounted the story to his wife who told him to go to the police as they had already heard about the disappearance of Madeleine. The witnesses daughter bears a striking resemblance to Madeleines images.
That very morning, the witness contacted the police and told them what had happened.
Of the vehicle registration plate, he only remembered the partial plate numbers AV and 67.
In so far as the suspect is concerned, he describes him as masculine, Caucasian with Latin colouring, curly dark brown hair that ran to his neck and in a pony tail. He was between 35/40 years of age, of medium complexion, and around 170 to 175 cm in height. He did not have any particular marks or signals and did not wear rings or other jewellery. He wore a cream coloured beach hat. He also wore dark glasses.
He wore cloth trousers and a coat/jacket of the same material which was cream coloured. Almost the same colour to the hat he had worn previously. His shoes were dark brown: the type that need to be shined or polished.
As regards the woman with the individual, as he saw her seated in the vehicle, he can only state that she had short hair which appeared to be white in colour and very shiny. In the sitting position, her head was below the car head rest. She appeared to be skinny and Caucasian. She did not use glasses. He can say no more as she was difficult to see.
When questioned, the witness states that he could recognise the individual in person and from a photograph or sketch .
At this moment, the interview is interrupted to show the witness photographs of individuals with similar physical characteristics.
These were returned to the investigators with negative result, as confirmed in the appendix.
There are no additional elements to offer the investigation.
Nothing more was said, reads , ratifies, signs.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 30.10.17 11:44
Witness Statement Najoua Chekaya - 9th May 2007
Occupation: Aerobic Instructor
She comes to the process as a witness.
She worked as an aerobics instructor next to the Millenium Restaurant swimming pool, close to the Tapas restaurant in P Da L.
As she does not speak Portuguese, she is assisted by the interpreter, Robert Murat.
Stated that she arrived in Portugal on 21st March 2007 for the first time, having been recruited from England by the Mark Warner company.
She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.
She began her working day at about 08.15 near to the Millenium restaurant until 08.45, then at 09.30 she walked to Lagos from where she returned at about 11.30 and at about 11.45 went for lunch at the Tapas restaurant.
In the afternoon she began work at 15.20 next to the Millenium until 16.15 and then returned to the Tapas restaurant until 17.15 and then to the Millenium restaurant from 17.30 to 18.00. She finished at about 18.15 and returned to the Tapas Bar for dinner and at 21.00 did a kind of quiz with the guests who were having dinner in the restaurant.
She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them for a drink.
She was at their table for about fifteen to twenty minutes and it was there that she met Madeleine's father, who directly invited her to the table, however, she does not know whether Madeleines mother was also there.
When questioned, she said that they talked of banalities and she did not notice any aspect or behaviour that was out of the ordinary.
When questioned, she said that during the time that she was there Madeleines father did not leave the table, neither did any of the other guests, however, during this time one of the chairs was always empty, that of someone who had had dinner and left, not managing to indicate any identifying element about this person.
When questioned, she said she was at the table from about 21.30 to 21.50.
She does not remember anyone from outside the resort having made any questions about the functioning of the Ocean Club, or about any particular service.
When questioned, she said that she had only seen Madeleine once or twice and had merely said hello to her, no more than that.
When questioned, she said that she had never seen anyone suspicious in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.
She knows nothing more about the subject.
Reads, ratifies, signs.
Occupation: Aerobic Instructor
She comes to the process as a witness.
She worked as an aerobics instructor next to the Millenium Restaurant swimming pool, close to the Tapas restaurant in P Da L.
As she does not speak Portuguese, she is assisted by the interpreter, Robert Murat.
Stated that she arrived in Portugal on 21st March 2007 for the first time, having been recruited from England by the Mark Warner company.
She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.
She began her working day at about 08.15 near to the Millenium restaurant until 08.45, then at 09.30 she walked to Lagos from where she returned at about 11.30 and at about 11.45 went for lunch at the Tapas restaurant.
In the afternoon she began work at 15.20 next to the Millenium until 16.15 and then returned to the Tapas restaurant until 17.15 and then to the Millenium restaurant from 17.30 to 18.00. She finished at about 18.15 and returned to the Tapas Bar for dinner and at 21.00 did a kind of quiz with the guests who were having dinner in the restaurant.
She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them for a drink.
She was at their table for about fifteen to twenty minutes and it was there that she met Madeleine's father, who directly invited her to the table, however, she does not know whether Madeleines mother was also there.
When questioned, she said that they talked of banalities and she did not notice any aspect or behaviour that was out of the ordinary.
When questioned, she said that during the time that she was there Madeleines father did not leave the table, neither did any of the other guests, however, during this time one of the chairs was always empty, that of someone who had had dinner and left, not managing to indicate any identifying element about this person.
When questioned, she said she was at the table from about 21.30 to 21.50.
She does not remember anyone from outside the resort having made any questions about the functioning of the Ocean Club, or about any particular service.
When questioned, she said that she had only seen Madeleine once or twice and had merely said hello to her, no more than that.
When questioned, she said that she had never seen anyone suspicious in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.
She knows nothing more about the subject.
Reads, ratifies, signs.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 30.10.17 11:48
Witness Statement Najoua Chekaya - 20th June 2007
To the matter at hand she said:
--- She appears as a witness. Being a British national she does not not know the Portuguese
language in oral or written form, there being present, therefore, an interpreter Sra. Lidia N., PJ
employee/officer from DRPD/ADT.
--- In accordance with the statements made by her in this case, on 9 May 2007, she confirms it
having been on the Tuesday, 1 May 2007, that she was invited to the table of the group of which
the McCann couple were part, by Gerry himself.
--- That she recalls there being an empty place [seat] at the table, not being certain if it had been
Madeleine's mother's place given that she is not sure if they had met each other there at that time.
--- The photographs of the group of the McCann's friends having been shown to her, the deponent
declares that from those photos seen she has some reservations about David Payne [in that] while
she thinks he was also there, she had not noted his presence.
--- The question asked she declares not being certain who was missing from the group.
Nothing more said. Read, ratifies and will sign, together with the interpreter who assisted her.
To the matter at hand she said:
--- She appears as a witness. Being a British national she does not not know the Portuguese
language in oral or written form, there being present, therefore, an interpreter Sra. Lidia N., PJ
employee/officer from DRPD/ADT.
--- In accordance with the statements made by her in this case, on 9 May 2007, she confirms it
having been on the Tuesday, 1 May 2007, that she was invited to the table of the group of which
the McCann couple were part, by Gerry himself.
--- That she recalls there being an empty place [seat] at the table, not being certain if it had been
Madeleine's mother's place given that she is not sure if they had met each other there at that time.
--- The photographs of the group of the McCann's friends having been shown to her, the deponent
declares that from those photos seen she has some reservations about David Payne [in that] while
she thinks he was also there, she had not noted his presence.
--- The question asked she declares not being certain who was missing from the group.
Nothing more said. Read, ratifies and will sign, together with the interpreter who assisted her.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 05.11.17 0:45
Witness Statement Jeremy Wilkins - 8th April 2008
I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to this police. I gave an earlier statement to the Metropolitan Police relative to my holidays in Portugal in May of 2007. I stayed at the Praia da Luz resort from where Madeleine McCann disappeared. We arrived on Saturday, April 28, 2007.
Yesterday, I received a visit from Leicestershire police officers with the intent of clarifying some aspects and to obtain any possible additional information. The conversation was recorded as was the interview which was conducted by the same agents.
I was told that these questions originated from the rogatory letter sent by the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my deposition is subject to the Portuguese Criminal Code in addition to British law.
I was asked to read my original statement to refresh my memory for which I was given authorization.
What follows are answers to the questions posed to me in the following order:
Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.
Q. From which direction Gerry travelling when you met
From previous conversations had with Gerry, I am of the notion of the usual routine of the group in relation to checking on their children when they were in the Tapas Bar. I also was aware of the location of the McCann apartment. Naturally when I met him that night, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children. I cannot affirm if I saw him exactly leaving the apartment through the passageway, and if he was heading towards the tapas Bar.
Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. At the next crossing, I turned right and continued on down the hill. At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time. I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left. I did not see a woman in that zone. I had never before seen this man and did not see him after this. The next morning, after having become aware of Madeleine's disappearance, we went to breakfast and left the children in the club. Bridget and I returned to the apartment and minutes afterward, a uniformed police officer, accompanied by a British man serving as interpreter, showed up. Later we came to know him as Robert Murat. I do not remember if he gave me his details but recently when I was cleaning a bag, I came across a card with his name and telephone number. I believe that he may have given this to me so that we could contact him in case we had any additional information to offer. The police officer asked us if we had noticed anything out of the normal and Robert Murat translated. I spoke to him of the 'rasta man' and the police officer took some notes on paper. He also noted our names and passport numbers. During the days that followed, as we passed through the police cordon, we noticed Robert Murat on numerous occasions. On Friday, the 4th of May or Saturday, 5th of May 2007, at one of the police cordons, I again saw Robert Murat. He told me that they had investigated the lead of the 'rasta man' but that he was a local man and that everything was okay. He thanked me for my collaboration. I never saw Robert prior to his visit to our apartment with the police officer.
After leaving the WC, I continued to walk around the back of the tennis court, and returned via the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex. Whilst walking the streets, I was hoping my son would fall asleep. Some of the walkways did not have an exit and for this reason I walked practically in circles. When walking one of these paths, I came across a tourist called Curtis with his girlfriend whose name I do not know. He also knew Gerry from the tennis lessons. I remember passing by them but I assumed they were headed to dinner. Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.
When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him. As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.
From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where.
Q. Relative to the time we conversed
I am more certain of this than I am of our relative positions.
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes. We spoke of the care of children and how they were getting along. He told me something like 'he was on night duty'. I explained to him that I was returning to the apartment as my son was now sleeping. I assumed that Gerry was off to dine with the group in the Tapas bar, but I cannot precisely say this came from him or if I figured this out from our previous conversations regarding the checking system for the children. I remember that Gerry told me if he had stayed another week, he would likely do as I was doing and would stay with the children one night. It appeared as though he was jealous of what I was doing, but given that he was with a big group, he felt the obligation to meet with them every night, and the chosen location was the Tapas bar. I believe that there was some sort of agreement with the tapas Bar as they appeared to have a reservation every night and it was impossible for other guests to book at spot there.
I do not know if we were face to face or side to side when this conversation occurred. As I had the pram with me I was rocking it so my son could sleep, it seems to me that I was in the downward direction, but it is possible that I was in the opposite direction.
I do not remember having seen anyone else at this time besides Gerry. After leaving each other, Gerry walked downward in the direction of the Tapas Bar and I began to walk in the other direction, up the pathway. I turned left at the crossing and passed the apartment. I did not meet anyone else during my walk and once in my apartment, I did not venture out again.
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
Q. Relative to the passerby/transient
I can affirm that it was a quiet street and it was very unlikely that someone could have passed by be in this way but this as an assumption and I do not remember anything having happened.
Q. Relative to anything strange in Gerry's behaviour
I can affirm without any reservation that Gerry's behaviour was absolutely normal. He was not preoccupied and conversed and appeared relaxed. He behaved if the same form as with the other times we met.
Q. Relative to the visibility and lighting conditions
I believe that the time I left it was dusk or nighttime when I returned and I do not remember if it was already dark when I spoke with Gerry. There were no weather conditions that impacted visibility. Given the lighting and the atmospheric conditions, I believe that it would have been possible to see if an individual was near but evidently, the greater the distance, the harder the difficulty in seeing. I would say that when I spoke with Gerry it was possible to recognize someone I knew who was passing on foot at the crossing at the top of the hill or to describe approximately someone unknown from that distance.
Q. relative to the return to Portugal to realize a reconstitution
I spoke with the police for a long time regarding this topic. I had some reservation about the press' intrusion onto my personal life and the hurt that resulted. I actually think that I would prefer not to take part. I have helped the investigation and am particularly interested in the investigative team gave me a solid base with would justify the reconstitution.
I was also asked question raised by the arguidos, to which I responded as follows.
Relative to my familiarity with Gerry and Kate;
I got to know them on Monday, 30th of April 2007 when I arrived at the tennis lesson. I had booked lessons and believed that Gerry had done the same. I believe that Kate was with Gerry before the first lesson but did not play.
Relative to the encounters between the 29th of April and the 3rd of May
I played against Gerry in the tennis lessons and we played a game outside the lessons together with two friends who made up part of his group. Kate was in the immediate area of the resort but the reason for our meetings was normally tennis. We got along well together.
Relative to seeing them with Madeleine and the other children
I do not have grand memories of Madeleine but did see her on some occasions with her parents in the creche. My last memory of the twins, specifically, was in the company of adults (I think they were friends that travelled here) in the pool zone and also on the day that we left, Saturday 5th of May, 2007.
I never saw any member of the family inside or possessing a vehicle.
Relative to the encounter with Gerry and Kate on the 3rd of May 2007
I had a tennis lesson with Gerry from 10h00 to 11h00. After the lesson we went to fetch the children from the creche. I saw Gerry and Kate near the pool relaxing. I remember that they were talking to a British tennis instructor whose name is George or Georgina. I remember that she was telling them a bit about her personal life. Later that day, I went once again to collect the children from the creche and believe I saw them there, but I cannot affirm with exactitude if it was that day or if had been on a previous day. We did not see each other again on this day.
Relative to when I became aware of Madeleine's disappearance
After having gone to sleep on the 3rd of May, we were woken around 01H30 by the manager of the resort, John Hill and by a friend of Gerry's. It was them who told me what had happened. I did not see or hear anything else than what has been stated in this statement. I did not take part in any searches. I offered my help but it was not necessary. I did not see Gerry and Kate again until the afternoon of our departure. They were in the tourist complex. This was on Saturday, 5th of May 2007. If was a very emotional encounter and I did not know what to say to them. I went over to Gerry and gave him a pat on the shoulder and spoke briefly with Kate. Together they appeared constrained and I became emotional as well.
Relative to the meeting with Gerry McCann
I have already testified to the time of our encounter in this statement and have also spoken to the location where we met, when I saw him for the first time, what I observed regarding the details of our conversation. The same applies to Jane Tanner.
Relative to the sighting in Dr. Francisco Gentil street
From the location where we met for our conversation, it is possible to see the top of the hill. I cannot confirm if I was always turned in this direction. It is definitely possible that someone could have crossed holding a child without my noticing.
I do not remember any other information or relevant details which could help this investigation.
I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to this police. I gave an earlier statement to the Metropolitan Police relative to my holidays in Portugal in May of 2007. I stayed at the Praia da Luz resort from where Madeleine McCann disappeared. We arrived on Saturday, April 28, 2007.
Yesterday, I received a visit from Leicestershire police officers with the intent of clarifying some aspects and to obtain any possible additional information. The conversation was recorded as was the interview which was conducted by the same agents.
I was told that these questions originated from the rogatory letter sent by the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my deposition is subject to the Portuguese Criminal Code in addition to British law.
I was asked to read my original statement to refresh my memory for which I was given authorization.
What follows are answers to the questions posed to me in the following order:
Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.
Q. From which direction Gerry travelling when you met
From previous conversations had with Gerry, I am of the notion of the usual routine of the group in relation to checking on their children when they were in the Tapas Bar. I also was aware of the location of the McCann apartment. Naturally when I met him that night, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children. I cannot affirm if I saw him exactly leaving the apartment through the passageway, and if he was heading towards the tapas Bar.
Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. At the next crossing, I turned right and continued on down the hill. At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time. I do not remember if he was still in that place when I left. I did not see a woman in that zone. I had never before seen this man and did not see him after this. The next morning, after having become aware of Madeleine's disappearance, we went to breakfast and left the children in the club. Bridget and I returned to the apartment and minutes afterward, a uniformed police officer, accompanied by a British man serving as interpreter, showed up. Later we came to know him as Robert Murat. I do not remember if he gave me his details but recently when I was cleaning a bag, I came across a card with his name and telephone number. I believe that he may have given this to me so that we could contact him in case we had any additional information to offer. The police officer asked us if we had noticed anything out of the normal and Robert Murat translated. I spoke to him of the 'rasta man' and the police officer took some notes on paper. He also noted our names and passport numbers. During the days that followed, as we passed through the police cordon, we noticed Robert Murat on numerous occasions. On Friday, the 4th of May or Saturday, 5th of May 2007, at one of the police cordons, I again saw Robert Murat. He told me that they had investigated the lead of the 'rasta man' but that he was a local man and that everything was okay. He thanked me for my collaboration. I never saw Robert prior to his visit to our apartment with the police officer.
After leaving the WC, I continued to walk around the back of the tennis court, and returned via the pathway opposite the pool in the Tapas complex. Whilst walking the streets, I was hoping my son would fall asleep. Some of the walkways did not have an exit and for this reason I walked practically in circles. When walking one of these paths, I came across a tourist called Curtis with his girlfriend whose name I do not know. He also knew Gerry from the tennis lessons. I remember passing by them but I assumed they were headed to dinner. Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.
When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him. As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.
From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where.
Q. Relative to the time we conversed
I am more certain of this than I am of our relative positions.
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes. We spoke of the care of children and how they were getting along. He told me something like 'he was on night duty'. I explained to him that I was returning to the apartment as my son was now sleeping. I assumed that Gerry was off to dine with the group in the Tapas bar, but I cannot precisely say this came from him or if I figured this out from our previous conversations regarding the checking system for the children. I remember that Gerry told me if he had stayed another week, he would likely do as I was doing and would stay with the children one night. It appeared as though he was jealous of what I was doing, but given that he was with a big group, he felt the obligation to meet with them every night, and the chosen location was the Tapas bar. I believe that there was some sort of agreement with the tapas Bar as they appeared to have a reservation every night and it was impossible for other guests to book at spot there.
I do not know if we were face to face or side to side when this conversation occurred. As I had the pram with me I was rocking it so my son could sleep, it seems to me that I was in the downward direction, but it is possible that I was in the opposite direction.
I do not remember having seen anyone else at this time besides Gerry. After leaving each other, Gerry walked downward in the direction of the Tapas Bar and I began to walk in the other direction, up the pathway. I turned left at the crossing and passed the apartment. I did not meet anyone else during my walk and once in my apartment, I did not venture out again.
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
Q. Relative to the passerby/transient
I can affirm that it was a quiet street and it was very unlikely that someone could have passed by be in this way but this as an assumption and I do not remember anything having happened.
Q. Relative to anything strange in Gerry's behaviour
I can affirm without any reservation that Gerry's behaviour was absolutely normal. He was not preoccupied and conversed and appeared relaxed. He behaved if the same form as with the other times we met.
Q. Relative to the visibility and lighting conditions
I believe that the time I left it was dusk or nighttime when I returned and I do not remember if it was already dark when I spoke with Gerry. There were no weather conditions that impacted visibility. Given the lighting and the atmospheric conditions, I believe that it would have been possible to see if an individual was near but evidently, the greater the distance, the harder the difficulty in seeing. I would say that when I spoke with Gerry it was possible to recognize someone I knew who was passing on foot at the crossing at the top of the hill or to describe approximately someone unknown from that distance.
Q. relative to the return to Portugal to realize a reconstitution
I spoke with the police for a long time regarding this topic. I had some reservation about the press' intrusion onto my personal life and the hurt that resulted. I actually think that I would prefer not to take part. I have helped the investigation and am particularly interested in the investigative team gave me a solid base with would justify the reconstitution.
I was also asked question raised by the arguidos, to which I responded as follows.
Relative to my familiarity with Gerry and Kate;
I got to know them on Monday, 30th of April 2007 when I arrived at the tennis lesson. I had booked lessons and believed that Gerry had done the same. I believe that Kate was with Gerry before the first lesson but did not play.
Relative to the encounters between the 29th of April and the 3rd of May
I played against Gerry in the tennis lessons and we played a game outside the lessons together with two friends who made up part of his group. Kate was in the immediate area of the resort but the reason for our meetings was normally tennis. We got along well together.
Relative to seeing them with Madeleine and the other children
I do not have grand memories of Madeleine but did see her on some occasions with her parents in the creche. My last memory of the twins, specifically, was in the company of adults (I think they were friends that travelled here) in the pool zone and also on the day that we left, Saturday 5th of May, 2007.
I never saw any member of the family inside or possessing a vehicle.
Relative to the encounter with Gerry and Kate on the 3rd of May 2007
I had a tennis lesson with Gerry from 10h00 to 11h00. After the lesson we went to fetch the children from the creche. I saw Gerry and Kate near the pool relaxing. I remember that they were talking to a British tennis instructor whose name is George or Georgina. I remember that she was telling them a bit about her personal life. Later that day, I went once again to collect the children from the creche and believe I saw them there, but I cannot affirm with exactitude if it was that day or if had been on a previous day. We did not see each other again on this day.
Relative to when I became aware of Madeleine's disappearance
After having gone to sleep on the 3rd of May, we were woken around 01H30 by the manager of the resort, John Hill and by a friend of Gerry's. It was them who told me what had happened. I did not see or hear anything else than what has been stated in this statement. I did not take part in any searches. I offered my help but it was not necessary. I did not see Gerry and Kate again until the afternoon of our departure. They were in the tourist complex. This was on Saturday, 5th of May 2007. If was a very emotional encounter and I did not know what to say to them. I went over to Gerry and gave him a pat on the shoulder and spoke briefly with Kate. Together they appeared constrained and I became emotional as well.
Relative to the meeting with Gerry McCann
I have already testified to the time of our encounter in this statement and have also spoken to the location where we met, when I saw him for the first time, what I observed regarding the details of our conversation. The same applies to Jane Tanner.
Relative to the sighting in Dr. Francisco Gentil street
From the location where we met for our conversation, it is possible to see the top of the hill. I cannot confirm if I was always turned in this direction. It is definitely possible that someone could have crossed holding a child without my noticing.
I do not remember any other information or relevant details which could help this investigation.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 06.11.17 12:23
Witness Statement Jennifer Murat - 15th May 2007
She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.
--- She comes to the case as a witness.
--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth
.
--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.
--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.
--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.
--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.
--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.
--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.
--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.
--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).
--- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.
--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.
--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.
--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.
--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.
--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.
--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.
--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.
--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].
--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.
--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.
--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.
--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon
--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.
--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.
--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.
--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.
--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years
.
--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness' other children.
--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.
--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.
--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.
--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.
--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.
--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.
--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.
--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.
--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.
--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.
--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.
--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.
--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.
--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.
--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.
--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert's project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.
--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).
--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.
---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.
--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.
- End -
She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.
--- She comes to the case as a witness.
--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth
.
--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.
--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.
--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.
--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.
--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.
--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.
--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.
--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).
--- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.
--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.
--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.
--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.
--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.
--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.
--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.
--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.
--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].
--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.
--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.
--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.
--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon
--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.
--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.
--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.
--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.
--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years
.
--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness' other children.
--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.
--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.
--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.
--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.
--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.
--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.
--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.
--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.
--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.
--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.
--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.
--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.
--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.
--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.
--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.
--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert's project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.
--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).
--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.
---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.
--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.
- End -
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 07.11.17 0:45
Deposition Jeremy Wilkins - 7th May 2007 (Leicestershire Constabulary)
I am the above named person and at an address known by the Police. This statement describes my holiday at the Algarve and the conversation with Jerry, the father of Madeleine on the evening of her disappearance.
On Saturday , 28th April, 2007, we arrived at the Ocean Club resort, Garden Apartments, Praia da Luz, Algarve. I was with my wife Bridget O'Donnell, my daughter Orly, who is three (3) and Arlo, my son who is eight (8) months. We were placed into the apartment within block G4, apartment JMO on letter O. There are about 15 to 20 apartments within each block. The McCann family was within the next block. On Monday 30th, April, 2007 I joined the tennis lessons provided by Mark Warner, the tour operator. There were five pairs. There were 3 females and a male, I found to be Jerry.
He was white of pale complexion, about 5'10'' to 6' 00'' with a soft Glaswegian accent. He has dark hair which was short. He was of athletic build.
As part of the lesson we were paired off together. We engaged on general conversation, mainly about tennis, and football. I got the impression that he was good company, gregarious and chatty. The tennis lessons longed about an hour. We were signed for four (4) lessons in total. I can't recall if I saw Jerry again that day.
On Tuesday, 1st May, 2007 we again had a tennis lesson together. After the lessons, this time we had a game of doubles together with two friends of his! At this point I established that Jerry and his family had come along with a group of other families, four (4) in totals. The game longed about one hour and a quarter.
After the game we walked together with a third male called Russell or Matt, to pick the children up from the Mini-Club. This is a Creche provided by the holiday company.
We would take them there at 9 am ('!) every day, until 12:30pm. I realized that Jerry had three (3) children). A girl called Madeleine and 2 twins who were about two years of age. Madeleine was about three (3). This club would take threes (3) to five (5) years old. The Club was split into two (2) groups: the Sharks and the Lobsters. My son was in the Sharks group. I believe that Madeleine was in the Lobsters. I don't believe that I saw the family again that day.
On Wednesday, 2nd May, I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2:30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realized this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment.
That evening myself and my partner attended the 'Tapas' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7:30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night my family were using the creche's facility. We found out that the group of families were occupying ground floor flats near the swimming pool and they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evenings. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.
I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a Hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the creche informing that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with Jerry was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes we remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, Jerry was with about seven other people. I picked up my daughter from the creche and then returned to the apartment.
On Thursday, 3rd May 2007, at 10 am I went to tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played ('!) the lesson for an hour.
I went to the pool where Bridget was. I think Jerry's wife, Kate was already there speaking to the tennis coach. They got really involved in a conversation XXX Jerry would say a joke ('!!!!, unreadable) and go ...
At 12:30 pm we went fetch the little boy from the creche as usual. Everyone left the pool at about the same time. I didn't see Jerry or Kate.
We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out at the top road.
I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said you're on walking duty. I said I was staying in and pros and cons and what to do with the children.
He said that as he was staying two weeks XXXXX he was staying one night' (unreadable)
I don't remember anyone else walking around with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes.
He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far. I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I learnt to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, and tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I learnt him to be a diabetics specialist. We met him on the way to the destination. Matt said XXXXX to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said that he had met me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained at the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed.
The following day there was a sombre atmosphere around the complex. I last saw Jerry and Kate on Saturday, 5th May 2007 about 4 pm or 5 pm. We were sitting by the pool. I walked over to Jerry and wanted to let him know that I was thinking about him. I shook his hand. He was quiet but wasn't crying. I thought it was brave of him and his wife to go to the pool. I said hello to Kate, I didn't know what to say in that situation. She looked really upset. That was the last time I physically saw Jerry and Kate. Myself and my family left the complex at 7:30 pm (19:30) and flew back to Gatwick that evening, arriving at 04:00 am. Sunday (6 May)
I have drawn a map of the complex and marked an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday evening ' JW 1. I have also produced a map, from the holiday brochure also with an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday ' JW 2.'
On Saturday , 28th April, 2007, we arrived at the Ocean Club resort, Garden Apartments, Praia da Luz, Algarve. I was with my wife Bridget O'Donnell, my daughter Orly, who is three (3) and Arlo, my son who is eight (8) months. We were placed into the apartment within block G4, apartment JMO on letter O. There are about 15 to 20 apartments within each block. The McCann family was within the next block. On Monday 30th, April, 2007 I joined the tennis lessons provided by Mark Warner, the tour operator. There were five pairs. There were 3 females and a male, I found to be Jerry.
He was white of pale complexion, about 5'10'' to 6' 00'' with a soft Glaswegian accent. He has dark hair which was short. He was of athletic build.
As part of the lesson we were paired off together. We engaged on general conversation, mainly about tennis, and football. I got the impression that he was good company, gregarious and chatty. The tennis lessons longed about an hour. We were signed for four (4) lessons in total. I can't recall if I saw Jerry again that day.
On Tuesday, 1st May, 2007 we again had a tennis lesson together. After the lessons, this time we had a game of doubles together with two friends of his! At this point I established that Jerry and his family had come along with a group of other families, four (4) in totals. The game longed about one hour and a quarter.
After the game we walked together with a third male called Russell or Matt, to pick the children up from the Mini-Club. This is a Creche provided by the holiday company.
We would take them there at 9 am ('!) every day, until 12:30pm. I realized that Jerry had three (3) children). A girl called Madeleine and 2 twins who were about two years of age. Madeleine was about three (3). This club would take threes (3) to five (5) years old. The Club was split into two (2) groups: the Sharks and the Lobsters. My son was in the Sharks group. I believe that Madeleine was in the Lobsters. I don't believe that I saw the family again that day.
On Wednesday, 2nd May, I could see it was raining and the tennis lesson was postponed. It was re-scheduled for 2:30 pm. I found this out at a later date and missed the lesson. I arrived about five (5) minutes before the end and realized this fact. I saw the usual people at the tennis lesson. I then went back to my apartment.
That evening myself and my partner attended the 'Tapas' restaurant which is part of the hotel complex at the swimming pool. We sat down to eat at 7:30 pm. After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell. They sat at the next table. We naturally engaged in conversation about everyday things. We spoke about childcare. That night my family were using the creche's facility. We found out that the group of families were occupying ground floor flats near the swimming pool and they were leaving the children by themselves in order for them to go to the restaurant in the evenings. They would then go regularly to check the children who would be asleep.
I found out that Jerry was a cardiologist in a Hospital. At this time his wife was putting the children to bed. We received a call from the creche informing that our son was awake. My partner left first and I followed shortly afterwards. The amount of time I spent with Jerry was about fifteen (15) to twenty (20) minutes we remained in the restaurant. By the time we left, Jerry was with about seven other people. I picked up my daughter from the creche and then returned to the apartment.
On Thursday, 3rd May 2007, at 10 am I went to tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played ('!) the lesson for an hour.
I went to the pool where Bridget was. I think Jerry's wife, Kate was already there speaking to the tennis coach. They got really involved in a conversation XXX Jerry would say a joke ('!!!!, unreadable) and go ...
At 12:30 pm we went fetch the little boy from the creche as usual. Everyone left the pool at about the same time. I didn't see Jerry or Kate.
We returned to our apartment. We decided to spend the evening in, watching television. Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out at the top road.
I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said you're on walking duty. I said I was staying in and pros and cons and what to do with the children.
He said that as he was staying two weeks XXXXX he was staying one night' (unreadable)
I don't remember anyone else walking around with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes.
He was acting completely normal from what I know of him so far. I then walked back to the apartment. I had dinner, watched a DVD and went to bed at about 11 pm.
The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I learnt to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, and tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I learnt him to be a diabetics specialist. We met him on the way to the destination. Matt said XXXXX to the effect that Jerry's daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said that he had met me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said 'You're joking'. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained at the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed.
The following day there was a sombre atmosphere around the complex. I last saw Jerry and Kate on Saturday, 5th May 2007 about 4 pm or 5 pm. We were sitting by the pool. I walked over to Jerry and wanted to let him know that I was thinking about him. I shook his hand. He was quiet but wasn't crying. I thought it was brave of him and his wife to go to the pool. I said hello to Kate, I didn't know what to say in that situation. She looked really upset. That was the last time I physically saw Jerry and Kate. Myself and my family left the complex at 7:30 pm (19:30) and flew back to Gatwick that evening, arriving at 04:00 am. Sunday (6 May)
I have drawn a map of the complex and marked an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday evening ' JW 1. I have also produced a map, from the holiday brochure also with an X where I saw Jerry on Thursday ' JW 2.'
The END
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 24.11.17 15:30
SERGEY MALINKA - WITNESS STATEMENT
16th May 2007
On the matter of the file he said:
--- He comes to the file as a witness.
--- Although of Russian nationality he fully understands the Portuguese language in its oral and written forms. He has been in Portugal for nearly seven years.
--- He lives with his parents. He has a Portuguese girlfriend.
--- Asked, he said he knows ROBERT MURAT since the summer of last year, he thinks. He came to know him through his neighbour R** A*****, who introduced the witness to ROBERT, claiming that he was a good designer of pages and websites. When speaking with ROBERT, he [RM] explained the type of page that he wanted, and the witness performed the work. It was a page of real estate for sale on the Internet, without resorting to a property firm, whose name was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] After completing the draft he returned to him the copyright, as well as the username and password of the administrator. He recalls that the username was a 1 and the password 123, which were altered by ROBERT. After the delivery of the work, he had three weeks to make alterations, as a page of this size needs few changes after entry onto the net. He knows that this enterprise (Romigen) belonged to ROBERT and to a woman of the name MICHAELA, who hardly interfered, but was always present at meetings.
--- Other than this web site, he did not carry out any other work for ROBERT or for MICHAELA.
--- The meetings to which he refers were carried out in the bedroom in Robert's home at Casa Liliana and in the "Baptista" supermarket, situated in Praia da Luz.
--- He confirms that four years ago, he was at the home of ROBERT at the request of his mother, JANE MURAT (sic), to format her computer, so that the operating system would work faster, and to install an anti-virus. He did not know ROBERT at that time, nor did he know that JANE (sic) was his mother. That this contact was established by the mother through the firm where the witness worked called "125 computers", situated on the EN 125, Mexilhoeira Grande. As his employer failed to pay his salary, he left the firm around three years ago.
--- He has now formed a company called "Sergey Malinka", which is not yet on the Internet, for monetary reasons, since its introduction has high costs.
--- He had solely professional contacts with ROBERT, although RM had invited him to form a joint business, which was refused by the witness.
--- The first contact with ROBERT, as already said, was in last summer, to create the web page, and this occurred near the Church of the Light [the church in PdL], where there was only ROBERT and the witness, he believes at l0H00/11H00. He now alleges that RUI was not present personally, he only gave Robert's phone number to SM. The creation of the Internet page took about three weeks to a month. ROBERT paid him '3000 in total, in two equal installments. The first part of the payment was at the beginning of the work and the second when completed.
--- The second time they met was two or three days later, not knowing where this occurred but thinks it was in the "Baptista" supermarket. He does not have an indication of the time. This second meeting was to show him the page, although not complete, he believes on ROBERT's laptop.
--- Contacts for the meetings were made by mobile phone.
--- The other meetings, he does not know how many, but he claims there had been five or six times, occurred in a space of two or three days, where they gave information to the witness to carry out work on the page, or make changes. These meetings were conducted at his house, in the room opposite the gates, where he had the portable [computer], in the kitchen and in the "Baptista'. He does not know the specific days, but they were between 10H00 and 12H00 and in the afternoon between 18H00 and 21H00. This will have taken place in the summer of the past year. In some of those meetings MICHAELA was present.
--- After completing the page, he knows that ROBERT went to the UK. During the work, he had some problems with ROBERT, of a professional nature, because he demanded changes, and sometimes the witness forgot to perform them.
--- The last time they met was at the request of ROBERT, who called the witness to perform other work and improve the page. The day after the telephone contact he met with him together with MICHAELA. This meeting took place on 30 April 2007, so the contact call occurred on 29th. It was held in the "Baptista" supermarket, about 10H00. It was agreed that the witness would try the page, following indication from ROBERT, the indications being given by email. The witness' email: [e-mail address deleted]. The last telephone contact he had with ROBERT, he believes, was on May 11, when the witness was contacted, he thinks, at 16:00. This contact was to draw the attention of the witness, because the page opened incorrectly. He recalls trying to call ROBERT on 14th, however he [RM] had the appliance disconnected.
--- He describes his days as follows: he wakes at 09H00/10H00, has breakfast and leaves to go to deal with professional matters - visits to customers who have contracts and other clients who sought his services. He does not know the localities, or corresponding times. Usually no lunch, returning home at 18H00/19H00, where he consults his email and calendar. Rarely leaves at night, and when he does, he is accompanied by his girlfriend to go to the cinema or a restaurant. He usually schedules his services the day before he executes them. To travel between services he uses his car "Audi A4, registration 10-xx-xx'.
--- He states that he has all the appointments, with the data/hour and client's name booked [recorded] in his MDA and home computer.
--- Regarding the day 03 May he said that he did not meet, nor spoke with Robert. On this day he followed the routine described above.
--- As for the computers he had at home he said that one of them is his property, without brand, and the other two belong to customers, including a customer from Burgau, but he does not know the name, and another from the firm 'Avenue properties", with offices in Lagos and Praia da Luz. In his car he also had a laptop computer which he bought today in the "People's Radio" brand "Accer", for the sum of '599.
--- Also in Burgau he has a client by the name of "SALLY", a female, who is an aunt or cousin of ROBERT. She has a home called 'Salsalito' near the International School of Burgau. This visit occurred about a week ago, day 08 or 09.
--- With specific reference to the 03 May 2007, the witness confirms to have woken up at his parents' home, between 9 and 10am, having followed his normal professional activity, which is the service and repair of computers. He does not recall which customers were visited, since anything that occurs daily is registered in his MDA.
--- Also he does not recollect having lunch that day. He knows he got home by 18H00. He dined with the family and stayed in his room for the rest of the night, using the computer for games, Messenger, internet and may have carried out some repairs to the equipment of a client.
--- The next day, he learnt about the disappearance of a girl, through an image put in the shop window of a shop near to his house, having asked a member of staff what had happened, who also could not explain to him. He had a day without changes, that is, he did all tasks he had planned to perform.
--- He affirms not to have had any involvement in the efforts that were made by almost all local residents, in the search for the missing girl, named MADELEINE. This was due only to lack of time, since he had much work and could not fail in the commitments to customers.
--- With regard to the telephone contact he received on 03 May 07, at 23:30, made by ROBERT, he affirms that he does not recall having received such a call, but if this actually happened, it will have been to arrange a meeting with the same, for professional reasons.
--- He affirms he is not protecting ROBERT and never to have had the intention to take any kind of responsibility for him, including the activities undertaken for him on the computer.
--- He does not know any thing that can contribute to [finding the] the location of the girl, or for any another kind of explanation of the events under investigation.
--- No other information to provide for the file.
Has nothing further to add. Read, ratifies and will sign
16th May 2007
On the matter of the file he said:
--- He comes to the file as a witness.
--- Although of Russian nationality he fully understands the Portuguese language in its oral and written forms. He has been in Portugal for nearly seven years.
--- He lives with his parents. He has a Portuguese girlfriend.
--- Asked, he said he knows ROBERT MURAT since the summer of last year, he thinks. He came to know him through his neighbour R** A*****, who introduced the witness to ROBERT, claiming that he was a good designer of pages and websites. When speaking with ROBERT, he [RM] explained the type of page that he wanted, and the witness performed the work. It was a page of real estate for sale on the Internet, without resorting to a property firm, whose name was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] After completing the draft he returned to him the copyright, as well as the username and password of the administrator. He recalls that the username was a 1 and the password 123, which were altered by ROBERT. After the delivery of the work, he had three weeks to make alterations, as a page of this size needs few changes after entry onto the net. He knows that this enterprise (Romigen) belonged to ROBERT and to a woman of the name MICHAELA, who hardly interfered, but was always present at meetings.
--- Other than this web site, he did not carry out any other work for ROBERT or for MICHAELA.
--- The meetings to which he refers were carried out in the bedroom in Robert's home at Casa Liliana and in the "Baptista" supermarket, situated in Praia da Luz.
--- He confirms that four years ago, he was at the home of ROBERT at the request of his mother, JANE MURAT (sic), to format her computer, so that the operating system would work faster, and to install an anti-virus. He did not know ROBERT at that time, nor did he know that JANE (sic) was his mother. That this contact was established by the mother through the firm where the witness worked called "125 computers", situated on the EN 125, Mexilhoeira Grande. As his employer failed to pay his salary, he left the firm around three years ago.
--- He has now formed a company called "Sergey Malinka", which is not yet on the Internet, for monetary reasons, since its introduction has high costs.
--- He had solely professional contacts with ROBERT, although RM had invited him to form a joint business, which was refused by the witness.
--- The first contact with ROBERT, as already said, was in last summer, to create the web page, and this occurred near the Church of the Light [the church in PdL], where there was only ROBERT and the witness, he believes at l0H00/11H00. He now alleges that RUI was not present personally, he only gave Robert's phone number to SM. The creation of the Internet page took about three weeks to a month. ROBERT paid him '3000 in total, in two equal installments. The first part of the payment was at the beginning of the work and the second when completed.
--- The second time they met was two or three days later, not knowing where this occurred but thinks it was in the "Baptista" supermarket. He does not have an indication of the time. This second meeting was to show him the page, although not complete, he believes on ROBERT's laptop.
--- Contacts for the meetings were made by mobile phone.
--- The other meetings, he does not know how many, but he claims there had been five or six times, occurred in a space of two or three days, where they gave information to the witness to carry out work on the page, or make changes. These meetings were conducted at his house, in the room opposite the gates, where he had the portable [computer], in the kitchen and in the "Baptista'. He does not know the specific days, but they were between 10H00 and 12H00 and in the afternoon between 18H00 and 21H00. This will have taken place in the summer of the past year. In some of those meetings MICHAELA was present.
--- After completing the page, he knows that ROBERT went to the UK. During the work, he had some problems with ROBERT, of a professional nature, because he demanded changes, and sometimes the witness forgot to perform them.
--- The last time they met was at the request of ROBERT, who called the witness to perform other work and improve the page. The day after the telephone contact he met with him together with MICHAELA. This meeting took place on 30 April 2007, so the contact call occurred on 29th. It was held in the "Baptista" supermarket, about 10H00. It was agreed that the witness would try the page, following indication from ROBERT, the indications being given by email. The witness' email: [e-mail address deleted]. The last telephone contact he had with ROBERT, he believes, was on May 11, when the witness was contacted, he thinks, at 16:00. This contact was to draw the attention of the witness, because the page opened incorrectly. He recalls trying to call ROBERT on 14th, however he [RM] had the appliance disconnected.
--- He describes his days as follows: he wakes at 09H00/10H00, has breakfast and leaves to go to deal with professional matters - visits to customers who have contracts and other clients who sought his services. He does not know the localities, or corresponding times. Usually no lunch, returning home at 18H00/19H00, where he consults his email and calendar. Rarely leaves at night, and when he does, he is accompanied by his girlfriend to go to the cinema or a restaurant. He usually schedules his services the day before he executes them. To travel between services he uses his car "Audi A4, registration 10-xx-xx'.
--- He states that he has all the appointments, with the data/hour and client's name booked [recorded] in his MDA and home computer.
--- Regarding the day 03 May he said that he did not meet, nor spoke with Robert. On this day he followed the routine described above.
--- As for the computers he had at home he said that one of them is his property, without brand, and the other two belong to customers, including a customer from Burgau, but he does not know the name, and another from the firm 'Avenue properties", with offices in Lagos and Praia da Luz. In his car he also had a laptop computer which he bought today in the "People's Radio" brand "Accer", for the sum of '599.
--- Also in Burgau he has a client by the name of "SALLY", a female, who is an aunt or cousin of ROBERT. She has a home called 'Salsalito' near the International School of Burgau. This visit occurred about a week ago, day 08 or 09.
--- With specific reference to the 03 May 2007, the witness confirms to have woken up at his parents' home, between 9 and 10am, having followed his normal professional activity, which is the service and repair of computers. He does not recall which customers were visited, since anything that occurs daily is registered in his MDA.
--- Also he does not recollect having lunch that day. He knows he got home by 18H00. He dined with the family and stayed in his room for the rest of the night, using the computer for games, Messenger, internet and may have carried out some repairs to the equipment of a client.
--- The next day, he learnt about the disappearance of a girl, through an image put in the shop window of a shop near to his house, having asked a member of staff what had happened, who also could not explain to him. He had a day without changes, that is, he did all tasks he had planned to perform.
--- He affirms not to have had any involvement in the efforts that were made by almost all local residents, in the search for the missing girl, named MADELEINE. This was due only to lack of time, since he had much work and could not fail in the commitments to customers.
--- With regard to the telephone contact he received on 03 May 07, at 23:30, made by ROBERT, he affirms that he does not recall having received such a call, but if this actually happened, it will have been to arrange a meeting with the same, for professional reasons.
--- He affirms he is not protecting ROBERT and never to have had the intention to take any kind of responsibility for him, including the activities undertaken for him on the computer.
--- He does not know any thing that can contribute to [finding the] the location of the girl, or for any another kind of explanation of the events under investigation.
--- No other information to provide for the file.
Has nothing further to add. Read, ratifies and will sign
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 24.11.17 15:39
Svetlana Malinika [mother of Sergey Malinka] - Witness Statement
In the matter of the file she said:
--- She comes to these in the capacity of a witness.
--- Because the witness does not know the Portuguese language she is going to be assisted in this act by the Russian-speaking interpreter Mrs. Galina Lxxxx in this DIC.
--- The witness has been in Portugal since August 1999, having always resided in Praia da Luz - Lagos.
--- For approximately 5 or 6 years the witness works in the firm Blue Ocean, which undertakes cleaning work in the area of Praia da Luz and specifically in the area of the Ocean Club where the company performs cleaning work in some of the apartments near the apartment where the English minor Madeleine McCann disappeared, namely in an apartment that is in the same block but which is on the top floor, it being that the witness does not know precisely which apartment.
--- She adds that the witness is not always the one who goes there as there are other employees in the firm and the work allocation is done on a rotation basis.
--- The witness adds that the vast majority of people working in the area know that the apartments in the block occupied by the McCann couple are normally occupied given the proximity of the pool, and the occupants are usually foreigners.
--- The witness declares further that she knew of the disappearance of the minor from having heard conversations of her colleagues commenting on the case, it being that only two days after the events she came to understand [learn] the location where the events had occurred.
--- She has nothing to add regarding the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, except to say that she has lived in the area of Praia da Luz for about eight years and at no time has she ever been aware of abnormal situations given that she characterises the area as being very quiet.
Nothing further was said. Read, ratifies and will sign with the translator who assisted in this.
In the matter of the file she said:
--- She comes to these in the capacity of a witness.
--- Because the witness does not know the Portuguese language she is going to be assisted in this act by the Russian-speaking interpreter Mrs. Galina Lxxxx in this DIC.
--- The witness has been in Portugal since August 1999, having always resided in Praia da Luz - Lagos.
--- For approximately 5 or 6 years the witness works in the firm Blue Ocean, which undertakes cleaning work in the area of Praia da Luz and specifically in the area of the Ocean Club where the company performs cleaning work in some of the apartments near the apartment where the English minor Madeleine McCann disappeared, namely in an apartment that is in the same block but which is on the top floor, it being that the witness does not know precisely which apartment.
--- She adds that the witness is not always the one who goes there as there are other employees in the firm and the work allocation is done on a rotation basis.
--- The witness adds that the vast majority of people working in the area know that the apartments in the block occupied by the McCann couple are normally occupied given the proximity of the pool, and the occupants are usually foreigners.
--- The witness declares further that she knew of the disappearance of the minor from having heard conversations of her colleagues commenting on the case, it being that only two days after the events she came to understand [learn] the location where the events had occurred.
--- She has nothing to add regarding the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, except to say that she has lived in the area of Praia da Luz for about eight years and at no time has she ever been aware of abnormal situations given that she characterises the area as being very quiet.
Nothing further was said. Read, ratifies and will sign with the translator who assisted in this.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 04.12.17 15:41
Janet Kennedy Witness Statement - 14th April 2008
I am married to Brian KENNEDY. We have two children together, now adults. One of them has a child of his/her own. Brian has a sister whose name is Susan Healy who is the mother of Kate Healy/McCann; Kate is married to Gerald McCann and has three children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie. Kate was the bridesmaid when I married Brian and has maintained a close relationship with our family since adolescence, because she is an only child and was part of a very close group with our children.
Both Brian and I are retired teachers and have worked in numerous schools in Leicester and Birmingham, respectively. After the birth of my children, I stayed at home with them without working for a few years. I remember that we moved to Rothley in Leicester in 1982. I remember perfectly the day because we had a terrible rain storm/floods.
I resumed teaching until 1998, the year I retired. I then became a moral and religious education counsellor in Catholic schools for six years. I have also done voluntary work, but am very close to family and have a very strong bond with the entire family.
I am particularly close to Kate and Gerry, and remember that when they moved to Leicester, before Madeleine's birth, our house was always open to them 'they were frequent visitors, often overnight' I believe that this is something I inherited from my mother.
I would say we have a good relationship with them; we have given them much help and generally, our family functions well closely. We are always present when someone needs us.
Gerry first started coming to Leicester in order to participate in cardiology conferences held at Glenfield Hospital. It was usual for us to fetch him at the airport and take him to the conference and later return him to the airport. It is for this reason the family serves and we were always present when Kate or Gerry needed us. After selling our home in Glasgow, Kate rented a room in The Limes in Rothley and Gerry stayed at the hospital' I think that he made circuits between Glenfield Leicester Royal Infirmary and the Boston Hospitals. They married in 1998. They arranged to buy a home in Queniborough. I remember that Kate was anxious to have children and I also remember the day she informed us she was pregnant with Madeleine.
I had a close friend, Sister Margaret, who stayed with us for a few days and whom Kate invited along with us to take tea. I told her not to worry as we had guests, but she was very persistent. She was seated at the table and gave us the good news. She was positively radiant and happy. I remember Sister Margaret telling me what a privilege it was to have been involved in a tender family moment such as this one.
After Kate and Gerry's move to Leicestershire, we naturally began to see each other with greater frequency. Kate had a normal pregnancy and continued to work but always took care of herself and swam a lot during her pregnancy.
When Madeleine was born, the entire family was present to help support Kate who did not return to work as she felt her place was at home. Following the birth of the twins, she only returned to work part-time when they were one year old. I remember that in the beginning, Madeleine did not sleep well at night, and needed much attention.
When Madeleine was small, Gerry arranged work in Amsterdam and shortly after living there with Kate, she discovered that she was pregnant with twins. There were some problems with this pregnancy and she needed lots of bed rest. Once again the family helped. They travelled back and forth to offer help. However, even though this was the case, Kate never neglected her care of Madeleine even tough it was very complicated.
Kate had a few scares during her pregnancy with the twins and I remember that it was necessary for a doctor to certify her ability to travel by airplane home with me, on the 1st December.
Gerry and Madeleine travelled in the family car and via 'ferry'. Madeleine was very close to Gerry; she was always at his side.
Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were all born via I.V.F. and all of us in the family believe that these children were a blessing from God. The three children are all very special and very loved. Kate's trials with I.V.F. did not all go well and it was very traumatic and uncomfortable.
Kate possesses a natural maternal instinct, also due to having worked in obstetrics in new Zealand and in Glasgow. Kate worries about people, she is kind and courteous. Gerry is a typical male and is very organised, but I feel it is Kate who dominates. Gerry adores Kate. At times, Gerry appears to be totally absorbed in his work showing some difficulty concentrating outside of this realm. Kate brings him back to reality. At times, he can appear rude or curt. I would say that they have a fresh relationship, and they are very much in love with one another and admire each other immensely. Gerry is very paternal, not only with his children but this is a natural trait that has nothing to do with his experience as a doctor.
When Madeleine was small she would cry a lot. She was a very active baby who did not sleep well. She liked to be carried. She liked people to move around with her and to sing to her. Kate and Gerry found that she craved a lot of attention and were grateful for the help from other members of the family.
They did not show resentment towards Madeleine and I would say that as parents they functioned very well.
Madeleine would normally go to bed around 19:30 ' 20:00 and Sean and Amelie around 18:30 ' 19:00. As already mentioned, together Kate and Gerry were very precise about sleep time.
The children would occasionally awake during the night, particularly when they wanted to eat or be changed. Kate and Gerry would get up and take care of them ' it was for this reason they wanted to check on them when they were out.
Because Madeleine did occasionally have bad nights, Kate arranged a bonus system. She would get up in the middle of the night, would go to her parent's room to ensure they were there and would return to her own bed. This situation had gotten better before they went to Portugal.
The bonus system appears to have functioned well with Madeleine. She also had one for swimming if I remember well. The kitchen was replete with bonuses.
I had a conversation with Kate regarding care of the children in particular, leaving the children to cry until exhaustion and Kate and I both agreed that this was not correct and that the attention should be placed on calking them down. As parents, Kate and Gerry did not let their children cry.
Kate is good with motherhood; she is calm and has the capacity of maintaining equilibrium between the children and cares for all their necessities.
I never saw Kate or Gerry punish the children physically, and as referred to previously in this statement, they make use of other strategies which the children seemed to take well to. I never saw Kate or Gerry administer any type of medication to help the children sleep. Both Amelie and Madeleine have taken 'Calpol' (paracetamol) to control fever, but nothing more.
I have no knowledge of Kate or Gerry taking any medication, nor do I believe that they have ever been in the position of not knowing what to do with the children.
Madeleine is a normal child who likes challenges. She is smart, active, required a lot of attention, participates, loves to play, and who had a wonderful imagination. She is a fantastic little girl.
I never noted that Madeleine was unhappy at home. Life has its ups and downs. She had falls and incidents, as does any child. When the twins were born, it took her a while to adapt, but she surpassed this moment. She loves the twins and teaches them and shares with them. Madeleine is very wise for her age.
On the day before the Portugal trip, I went to their house to keep the children occupied whilst Kate and Gerry packed their bags. We went to the garden and Madeleine recited the book 'We're going on a bear hunt'. She recited this fantastically and without any evidence of unhappiness.
I feel a great injustice in relation to Kate and Gerry' to the way people judged them. They checked on their children constantly; the children always came first so that their routine was not disturbed. Kate and Gerry believed that it was safe. Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination.
This situation is profoundly sad. They made a decision that the children were safe and this is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. The power of hindsight is wonderful. 'The people that have been most punished for having done nothing wrong are Kate and Gerry'.
Their life was optimal, the development of Madeleine was good, she began walking and talking very early. She was smart, attentive and full of imagination. The twins were born in 2005 and I remember that Kate was great with both of them and Madeleine. Kate possessed a diary for the twins and their feedings. Madeleine dealt well with the arrival of the twins although she was only 22 months old at the time. There was occasionally a pinch or a poke but nothing more than pure jealously. As they began to grow up, they loved their older sister, and spent a lot of time with her. Madeleine taught them many things.
I remember one occasion when I was taking care of them and Madeleine took out her doctor play toys and used the thermometer to hit Sean on the head. I spoke with her about taking care of her siblings and not hurting them, at which time she hit Sean once again -- Madeleine was like this, very energetic.
Gerry and Kate are good rationalisers, they do not hit. They have their proper strategy which involves taking the child out of the situation and putting them in time-out, close the door, and let the child think about what they have done. This always seemed to gain results.
Last year, Kate and Gerry bought the children a toy for the garden. Madeleine was so confident in her strength, as she was in the protection of the twins. I was always close to the children and now I am even more. I told them that I would visit them at least once a week and we would normally go to the park'we are like the substitute grandparents. Since the disappearance of Madeleine we developed an even closer bond with the twins and help the family pick them up from the creche when it is necessary.
We never travelled together as a family. We did have a trip planned for October of last year but sadly, after the disappearance, it was not realised. We have spent important family time at Christmas and Easter. We have also spent some time in Kate and Gerrys house during the children's birthdays. At one celebration, we got to know David and Fiona Payne who are intimate friends of theirs. L*** Payne is the same age as Madeleine, and Kate and Fiona became friends as the children grew. What is evident is that both mothers are similarly dedicated and loving. David appears to be an emotionally calm man with a good heart. Kate always said that he was too kind and at work needed to be a bit more forceful.
The statement that follows was elaborated in response to questions asked by the PJ:
Madeleine frequented the creche three times per week and the twins two times per week.
Kate returned to work two days per week and would be home on Fridays and Mondays.
Kate believed that it was important to stay at home to raise her children. They possessed freedom of movement and were able to go to the park, travel, and enjoy life. She enjoyed maintaining a routine with respect to the children's feedings, namely, the type of food and the hour it was administered.
When night arrived, the routine was tea, bath, tooth-brushing' that all liked to do this so that after they could be inspected ' story for bedtime, pray 'what they could ' and bed.
Precisely related to this routine at home is why Kate rejected the idea of using the Ocean Club facilities and lay the children to sleep on one of the mattresses in a common area. It was for this reason that she and Gerry decided to leave the children sleeping in their apartment and checking on them regularly.
This statement was made by me and is the truth in accordance with my understanding.
I am married to Brian KENNEDY. We have two children together, now adults. One of them has a child of his/her own. Brian has a sister whose name is Susan Healy who is the mother of Kate Healy/McCann; Kate is married to Gerald McCann and has three children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie. Kate was the bridesmaid when I married Brian and has maintained a close relationship with our family since adolescence, because she is an only child and was part of a very close group with our children.
Both Brian and I are retired teachers and have worked in numerous schools in Leicester and Birmingham, respectively. After the birth of my children, I stayed at home with them without working for a few years. I remember that we moved to Rothley in Leicester in 1982. I remember perfectly the day because we had a terrible rain storm/floods.
I resumed teaching until 1998, the year I retired. I then became a moral and religious education counsellor in Catholic schools for six years. I have also done voluntary work, but am very close to family and have a very strong bond with the entire family.
I am particularly close to Kate and Gerry, and remember that when they moved to Leicester, before Madeleine's birth, our house was always open to them 'they were frequent visitors, often overnight' I believe that this is something I inherited from my mother.
I would say we have a good relationship with them; we have given them much help and generally, our family functions well closely. We are always present when someone needs us.
Gerry first started coming to Leicester in order to participate in cardiology conferences held at Glenfield Hospital. It was usual for us to fetch him at the airport and take him to the conference and later return him to the airport. It is for this reason the family serves and we were always present when Kate or Gerry needed us. After selling our home in Glasgow, Kate rented a room in The Limes in Rothley and Gerry stayed at the hospital' I think that he made circuits between Glenfield Leicester Royal Infirmary and the Boston Hospitals. They married in 1998. They arranged to buy a home in Queniborough. I remember that Kate was anxious to have children and I also remember the day she informed us she was pregnant with Madeleine.
I had a close friend, Sister Margaret, who stayed with us for a few days and whom Kate invited along with us to take tea. I told her not to worry as we had guests, but she was very persistent. She was seated at the table and gave us the good news. She was positively radiant and happy. I remember Sister Margaret telling me what a privilege it was to have been involved in a tender family moment such as this one.
After Kate and Gerry's move to Leicestershire, we naturally began to see each other with greater frequency. Kate had a normal pregnancy and continued to work but always took care of herself and swam a lot during her pregnancy.
When Madeleine was born, the entire family was present to help support Kate who did not return to work as she felt her place was at home. Following the birth of the twins, she only returned to work part-time when they were one year old. I remember that in the beginning, Madeleine did not sleep well at night, and needed much attention.
When Madeleine was small, Gerry arranged work in Amsterdam and shortly after living there with Kate, she discovered that she was pregnant with twins. There were some problems with this pregnancy and she needed lots of bed rest. Once again the family helped. They travelled back and forth to offer help. However, even though this was the case, Kate never neglected her care of Madeleine even tough it was very complicated.
Kate had a few scares during her pregnancy with the twins and I remember that it was necessary for a doctor to certify her ability to travel by airplane home with me, on the 1st December.
Gerry and Madeleine travelled in the family car and via 'ferry'. Madeleine was very close to Gerry; she was always at his side.
Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were all born via I.V.F. and all of us in the family believe that these children were a blessing from God. The three children are all very special and very loved. Kate's trials with I.V.F. did not all go well and it was very traumatic and uncomfortable.
Kate possesses a natural maternal instinct, also due to having worked in obstetrics in new Zealand and in Glasgow. Kate worries about people, she is kind and courteous. Gerry is a typical male and is very organised, but I feel it is Kate who dominates. Gerry adores Kate. At times, Gerry appears to be totally absorbed in his work showing some difficulty concentrating outside of this realm. Kate brings him back to reality. At times, he can appear rude or curt. I would say that they have a fresh relationship, and they are very much in love with one another and admire each other immensely. Gerry is very paternal, not only with his children but this is a natural trait that has nothing to do with his experience as a doctor.
When Madeleine was small she would cry a lot. She was a very active baby who did not sleep well. She liked to be carried. She liked people to move around with her and to sing to her. Kate and Gerry found that she craved a lot of attention and were grateful for the help from other members of the family.
They did not show resentment towards Madeleine and I would say that as parents they functioned very well.
Madeleine would normally go to bed around 19:30 ' 20:00 and Sean and Amelie around 18:30 ' 19:00. As already mentioned, together Kate and Gerry were very precise about sleep time.
The children would occasionally awake during the night, particularly when they wanted to eat or be changed. Kate and Gerry would get up and take care of them ' it was for this reason they wanted to check on them when they were out.
Because Madeleine did occasionally have bad nights, Kate arranged a bonus system. She would get up in the middle of the night, would go to her parent's room to ensure they were there and would return to her own bed. This situation had gotten better before they went to Portugal.
The bonus system appears to have functioned well with Madeleine. She also had one for swimming if I remember well. The kitchen was replete with bonuses.
I had a conversation with Kate regarding care of the children in particular, leaving the children to cry until exhaustion and Kate and I both agreed that this was not correct and that the attention should be placed on calking them down. As parents, Kate and Gerry did not let their children cry.
Kate is good with motherhood; she is calm and has the capacity of maintaining equilibrium between the children and cares for all their necessities.
I never saw Kate or Gerry punish the children physically, and as referred to previously in this statement, they make use of other strategies which the children seemed to take well to. I never saw Kate or Gerry administer any type of medication to help the children sleep. Both Amelie and Madeleine have taken 'Calpol' (paracetamol) to control fever, but nothing more.
I have no knowledge of Kate or Gerry taking any medication, nor do I believe that they have ever been in the position of not knowing what to do with the children.
Madeleine is a normal child who likes challenges. She is smart, active, required a lot of attention, participates, loves to play, and who had a wonderful imagination. She is a fantastic little girl.
I never noted that Madeleine was unhappy at home. Life has its ups and downs. She had falls and incidents, as does any child. When the twins were born, it took her a while to adapt, but she surpassed this moment. She loves the twins and teaches them and shares with them. Madeleine is very wise for her age.
On the day before the Portugal trip, I went to their house to keep the children occupied whilst Kate and Gerry packed their bags. We went to the garden and Madeleine recited the book 'We're going on a bear hunt'. She recited this fantastically and without any evidence of unhappiness.
I feel a great injustice in relation to Kate and Gerry' to the way people judged them. They checked on their children constantly; the children always came first so that their routine was not disturbed. Kate and Gerry believed that it was safe. Relative to the allegation that Madeleine made regarding Sean's crying, I do not have any idea what possessed Madeleine to make such an affirmation and also would state that Madeleine had a very fertile imagination.
This situation is profoundly sad. They made a decision that the children were safe and this is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. The power of hindsight is wonderful. 'The people that have been most punished for having done nothing wrong are Kate and Gerry'.
Their life was optimal, the development of Madeleine was good, she began walking and talking very early. She was smart, attentive and full of imagination. The twins were born in 2005 and I remember that Kate was great with both of them and Madeleine. Kate possessed a diary for the twins and their feedings. Madeleine dealt well with the arrival of the twins although she was only 22 months old at the time. There was occasionally a pinch or a poke but nothing more than pure jealously. As they began to grow up, they loved their older sister, and spent a lot of time with her. Madeleine taught them many things.
I remember one occasion when I was taking care of them and Madeleine took out her doctor play toys and used the thermometer to hit Sean on the head. I spoke with her about taking care of her siblings and not hurting them, at which time she hit Sean once again -- Madeleine was like this, very energetic.
Gerry and Kate are good rationalisers, they do not hit. They have their proper strategy which involves taking the child out of the situation and putting them in time-out, close the door, and let the child think about what they have done. This always seemed to gain results.
Last year, Kate and Gerry bought the children a toy for the garden. Madeleine was so confident in her strength, as she was in the protection of the twins. I was always close to the children and now I am even more. I told them that I would visit them at least once a week and we would normally go to the park'we are like the substitute grandparents. Since the disappearance of Madeleine we developed an even closer bond with the twins and help the family pick them up from the creche when it is necessary.
We never travelled together as a family. We did have a trip planned for October of last year but sadly, after the disappearance, it was not realised. We have spent important family time at Christmas and Easter. We have also spent some time in Kate and Gerrys house during the children's birthdays. At one celebration, we got to know David and Fiona Payne who are intimate friends of theirs. L*** Payne is the same age as Madeleine, and Kate and Fiona became friends as the children grew. What is evident is that both mothers are similarly dedicated and loving. David appears to be an emotionally calm man with a good heart. Kate always said that he was too kind and at work needed to be a bit more forceful.
The statement that follows was elaborated in response to questions asked by the PJ:
Madeleine frequented the creche three times per week and the twins two times per week.
Kate returned to work two days per week and would be home on Fridays and Mondays.
Kate believed that it was important to stay at home to raise her children. They possessed freedom of movement and were able to go to the park, travel, and enjoy life. She enjoyed maintaining a routine with respect to the children's feedings, namely, the type of food and the hour it was administered.
When night arrived, the routine was tea, bath, tooth-brushing' that all liked to do this so that after they could be inspected ' story for bedtime, pray 'what they could ' and bed.
Precisely related to this routine at home is why Kate rejected the idea of using the Ocean Club facilities and lay the children to sleep on one of the mattresses in a common area. It was for this reason that she and Gerry decided to leave the children sleeping in their apartment and checking on them regularly.
This statement was made by me and is the truth in accordance with my understanding.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 25.12.17 0:34
Michael Terrence Wright Witness Statement - 16th April 2008
My wife is Kate's cousin and I have known Kate since she was 8 years old. She used to spend holidays on Isle of Man where I lived. My wife's and Kate's families are quite close. I have known Gerry since 1997 when he was going out with Kate before they married.
I haven't seen Kate and Gerry very often, but we always met at family events such as weddings and baptisms. I didn't attend their wedding because my wife, Anne-Marie, was ill and we didn't attend their children's baptisms because we were away on holidays. That said, since the birth of the twins we have met more frequently. In August 2006 they came to visit us at our house one weekend and that was very pleasant. On our side, we visited them in Rothley in November 2006 and they repeated their visit [to us] in February 2007. We work well together as a group and we know each other very well. We were planning a family holiday [together] for June 2007 at Center Park.
I wasn't in Portugal on 3 May at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. About 23:00 that night I received a very uncomfortable [or compelling] call from my wife's mother who told me about Madeleine's disappearance. Aunt Nora, from Canada, was in Skipton and was about to return to Canada the next morning. I suggested that she go to Liverpool instead. We all thought that Madeleine was going to appear in the following hours, even while I drove Nora back to Liverpool in the early morning of Friday, 4 May. I stayed in Liverpool. I spoke to Kate by phone between 10:00 and 11:00am that morning and she confirmed that she wanted her mother, her father and Nora with her. The family liaison [officer?] arranged the journey of the mother, father and Nora to Portugal that same afternoon. I went with them to Manchester airport. Kate's mother asked me to come to Portugal and I agreed on condition of speaking first with Gerry and Kate.
On Saturday, 5 May, I caught a plane from Leeds-Bradford to Faro and caught a taxi from the airport to the Mark Warner complex. Initially I stayed in an apartment in the same complex as Kate and Gerry. Those first days were hectic, always surrounded by the media and the situation appeared very transitory [temporary] with family and friends sleeping wherever they could. In Friday, 11 May, I returned home for a weekend with my family.
After that I made five further trips to Portugal on:
- Monday, 14 May to Friday, 18 May. I travelled alone and helped by doing what I could in the Madeleine campaign;
- Friday, 8 June to Wednesday, 13 June. I travelled with my wife, Anne-Marie. This trip was for us to take care of the twins while Kate and Gerry made a brief trip to Morocco.
- Thursday, 12 July to Friday, 13 July. I travelled alone and returned with Kate and the twins for them to attend the baptism of my own children. I had spoken previously with Gerry by phone and knew that he was in UK in meetings and he asked me to help Kate and the twins so that they could be there. Kate, Gerry and twins returned to Portugal on 15 July.
- Wednesday, 22 August to Saturday, 1 September. I left with Anne-Marie and our children, K and P, to replace Sandy and Trish Cameron. During this period we spoke with Kate and Gerry about the best time to return to UK. Provisionally the second week in September was decided and I contacted a removals firm in Lagos in my name, and I collected packing boxes and adhesive tape. We then began to pack all the stuff we wanted to keep, such as letters, postcards, etc.
- Friday, 7 September to Sunday, 9 September. Gerry called me the night before and told me he was going to be interviewed the next day. I travelled alone and met Sandy Cameron at the airport and we caught a taxi to the villa. Kate, Gerry, the twins, Sandy and Trish, and Eileen McC left Portugal on Sunday morning and I left by myself that same afternoon after cleaning the villa.
During my initial trips to Portugal I stayed in Mark Warner apartments. In July, August and September I stayed in the villa rented by Kate and Gerry, I recall nothing strange about anything where I stayed. I didn't look for things that were particularly strange or suspicious but I did pay close attention to the Mark Warner apartments to consider potential hiding-places which could have been used by an intruder.
During my first two trips to Portugal, I recall that Kate and Gerry were in a flat spin, but I spent a lot of time with them especially at night at dinner. I frequently helped Sandy with with mundane tasks such as opening the mail. We received many e-mails relating to the campaign and there was much in them to talk about, but our time with Kate and Gerry during the day was very irregular. During my stay at the villa our time was more concentrated.
With respect to Kate and Gerry's comportment after the disappearance, I witnessed first hand their desperation, how they cried and were distraught, though never during their meetings with officials or at press conferences. It was uncomfortable to see. I also saw them organised and controlled in meetings and in front of the media, and felt proud and impressed at their power of self-control on those occasions.
At the time I travelled with Anne-Marie on 8 June, Kate and Gerry had rented a vehicle. It had seven seats, I judged [thought] it to be a Renault Espace. Gerry suggested that I be added to the insured driver's list so that I could drive it while they were in Morocco, but I judged [thought] that to be unnecessary as they would only be gone for a few days. When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace.
It was on our trip to Portugal on 22 August that Gerry suggested that I was added to the contract as an additional driver and I accepted. Gerry and I went to Lagos and I was included in the contract as additional driver.
I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL and also taking the twins to creche and to the beach, and trips to the airport. I was also a passenger in the car at various times, mainly in June and July when Gerry and Sandy drove.
There are various rubbish recycling/dump areas and we used these:
- two trash bins at the villa, one at the main entrance and the other at the top of the hill;
- one area on the cemetery road;
- one area above the Mark Warner complex, and
- one area between the villa and the church.
The visiting gardener always generated garden rubbish and this was usually leaves and grass. Gerry and I would usually take this rubbish to the bin at the top of the property.
I never observed anything strange in the vehicle at any time that I was in it.
I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the [rubbish] bins, [thereby] provoking smell.
I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill.
I know that the twins travelled in the vehicle more than twenty times. For example, to creche, [to the] beach at Sagres, the airport and Burgau.
I am absolutely certain that Kate and Gerry were not capable of hiding Madeleine's body and later transporting it to a dump.
My wife is Kate's cousin and I have known Kate since she was 8 years old. She used to spend holidays on Isle of Man where I lived. My wife's and Kate's families are quite close. I have known Gerry since 1997 when he was going out with Kate before they married.
I haven't seen Kate and Gerry very often, but we always met at family events such as weddings and baptisms. I didn't attend their wedding because my wife, Anne-Marie, was ill and we didn't attend their children's baptisms because we were away on holidays. That said, since the birth of the twins we have met more frequently. In August 2006 they came to visit us at our house one weekend and that was very pleasant. On our side, we visited them in Rothley in November 2006 and they repeated their visit [to us] in February 2007. We work well together as a group and we know each other very well. We were planning a family holiday [together] for June 2007 at Center Park.
I wasn't in Portugal on 3 May at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. About 23:00 that night I received a very uncomfortable [or compelling] call from my wife's mother who told me about Madeleine's disappearance. Aunt Nora, from Canada, was in Skipton and was about to return to Canada the next morning. I suggested that she go to Liverpool instead. We all thought that Madeleine was going to appear in the following hours, even while I drove Nora back to Liverpool in the early morning of Friday, 4 May. I stayed in Liverpool. I spoke to Kate by phone between 10:00 and 11:00am that morning and she confirmed that she wanted her mother, her father and Nora with her. The family liaison [officer?] arranged the journey of the mother, father and Nora to Portugal that same afternoon. I went with them to Manchester airport. Kate's mother asked me to come to Portugal and I agreed on condition of speaking first with Gerry and Kate.
On Saturday, 5 May, I caught a plane from Leeds-Bradford to Faro and caught a taxi from the airport to the Mark Warner complex. Initially I stayed in an apartment in the same complex as Kate and Gerry. Those first days were hectic, always surrounded by the media and the situation appeared very transitory [temporary] with family and friends sleeping wherever they could. In Friday, 11 May, I returned home for a weekend with my family.
After that I made five further trips to Portugal on:
- Monday, 14 May to Friday, 18 May. I travelled alone and helped by doing what I could in the Madeleine campaign;
- Friday, 8 June to Wednesday, 13 June. I travelled with my wife, Anne-Marie. This trip was for us to take care of the twins while Kate and Gerry made a brief trip to Morocco.
- Thursday, 12 July to Friday, 13 July. I travelled alone and returned with Kate and the twins for them to attend the baptism of my own children. I had spoken previously with Gerry by phone and knew that he was in UK in meetings and he asked me to help Kate and the twins so that they could be there. Kate, Gerry and twins returned to Portugal on 15 July.
- Wednesday, 22 August to Saturday, 1 September. I left with Anne-Marie and our children, K and P, to replace Sandy and Trish Cameron. During this period we spoke with Kate and Gerry about the best time to return to UK. Provisionally the second week in September was decided and I contacted a removals firm in Lagos in my name, and I collected packing boxes and adhesive tape. We then began to pack all the stuff we wanted to keep, such as letters, postcards, etc.
- Friday, 7 September to Sunday, 9 September. Gerry called me the night before and told me he was going to be interviewed the next day. I travelled alone and met Sandy Cameron at the airport and we caught a taxi to the villa. Kate, Gerry, the twins, Sandy and Trish, and Eileen McC left Portugal on Sunday morning and I left by myself that same afternoon after cleaning the villa.
During my initial trips to Portugal I stayed in Mark Warner apartments. In July, August and September I stayed in the villa rented by Kate and Gerry, I recall nothing strange about anything where I stayed. I didn't look for things that were particularly strange or suspicious but I did pay close attention to the Mark Warner apartments to consider potential hiding-places which could have been used by an intruder.
During my first two trips to Portugal, I recall that Kate and Gerry were in a flat spin, but I spent a lot of time with them especially at night at dinner. I frequently helped Sandy with with mundane tasks such as opening the mail. We received many e-mails relating to the campaign and there was much in them to talk about, but our time with Kate and Gerry during the day was very irregular. During my stay at the villa our time was more concentrated.
With respect to Kate and Gerry's comportment after the disappearance, I witnessed first hand their desperation, how they cried and were distraught, though never during their meetings with officials or at press conferences. It was uncomfortable to see. I also saw them organised and controlled in meetings and in front of the media, and felt proud and impressed at their power of self-control on those occasions.
At the time I travelled with Anne-Marie on 8 June, Kate and Gerry had rented a vehicle. It had seven seats, I judged [thought] it to be a Renault Espace. Gerry suggested that I be added to the insured driver's list so that I could drive it while they were in Morocco, but I judged [thought] that to be unnecessary as they would only be gone for a few days. When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace.
It was on our trip to Portugal on 22 August that Gerry suggested that I was added to the contract as an additional driver and I accepted. Gerry and I went to Lagos and I was included in the contract as additional driver.
I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL and also taking the twins to creche and to the beach, and trips to the airport. I was also a passenger in the car at various times, mainly in June and July when Gerry and Sandy drove.
There are various rubbish recycling/dump areas and we used these:
- two trash bins at the villa, one at the main entrance and the other at the top of the hill;
- one area on the cemetery road;
- one area above the Mark Warner complex, and
- one area between the villa and the church.
The visiting gardener always generated garden rubbish and this was usually leaves and grass. Gerry and I would usually take this rubbish to the bin at the top of the property.
I never observed anything strange in the vehicle at any time that I was in it.
I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the [rubbish] bins, [thereby] provoking smell.
I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill.
I know that the twins travelled in the vehicle more than twenty times. For example, to creche, [to the] beach at Sagres, the airport and Burgau.
I am absolutely certain that Kate and Gerry were not capable of hiding Madeleine's body and later transporting it to a dump.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 04.02.18 23:19
Witness statement Martin Smith - 26th May 2007
The witness states:
— That he comes to the process as a witness.
— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its written or oral form and is accompanied by an interpreter.
— That he has an apartment in Luz, Lagos, located in the Estela da Luz Urbanizaco, A1C. This apartment is co-owned by a friend whose name is Li** ON****. He normally visits Portugal three times a year. When here, he stays in the apartment. Concerning this period, he states that he arrived in Portugal on the 30th of April, 2007, with a booked return date of May 9, 2007. He arrived at Faro airport and flew out from Dublin.
— Concerning the facts under investigation, on the 3rd of May, he went with his family to the Dolphin restaurant in Praia da Luz where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant, following the path, as it is very short. The walk took him a few minutes. In 'Kelly's Bar' they consumed some drinks. They left that establishment around 21H55 as his son would be travelling very early the next day. This bar is located on Calheta Street.
— After leaving the bar, he travelled in the opposite direction and reached a set of stairs which gave access to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street). On this artery they followed a second street, parallel to Rua 1 de Maio (1st of May Street) whose name he does not remember. He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing). As he reached this artery, he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally and fitted in perfectly in that area, in that it is common to see people carrying children, at least during the holiday season. This individual was walking the downward path, in the opposite direction to him and his companions. He is not aware where this person was headed. He only saw him as they passed each other. He assumed it was a father and daughter, not raising any suspicion.
— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.
— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.
— He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed.
— She was wearing light-coloured pyjamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any wrap or blanket. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.
— Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent. He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.
— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child who was carried by the individual could have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, also the opinion shared by his family.
— Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.
— At being asked, states that when he saw the individual he was accompanied by his wife, MARY SMITH, his son, PETER SMITH, his daughter-in-law, S***, his grandchildren of 13 and 6 years of age (children of PETER) TA*** and CO**, his daughter AOIFE (12 years of age), and his other two grandchildren (AI****** (10 years old) and EI**** (four years old). These are children of his daughter B***** who was in Ireland.
— States also that when he passed this individual he was coming down the middle of the road, in the street, also that at that time traffic is minimal or non-existent.
— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other so they would have seen the individual in different positions.
— He adds a sketch indicating the route and the locale of the sighting.
— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.
— And nothing more was said. He reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.
The witness states:
— That he comes to the process as a witness.
— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its written or oral form and is accompanied by an interpreter.
— That he has an apartment in Luz, Lagos, located in the Estela da Luz Urbanizaco, A1C. This apartment is co-owned by a friend whose name is Li** ON****. He normally visits Portugal three times a year. When here, he stays in the apartment. Concerning this period, he states that he arrived in Portugal on the 30th of April, 2007, with a booked return date of May 9, 2007. He arrived at Faro airport and flew out from Dublin.
— Concerning the facts under investigation, on the 3rd of May, he went with his family to the Dolphin restaurant in Praia da Luz where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant, following the path, as it is very short. The walk took him a few minutes. In 'Kelly's Bar' they consumed some drinks. They left that establishment around 21H55 as his son would be travelling very early the next day. This bar is located on Calheta Street.
— After leaving the bar, he travelled in the opposite direction and reached a set of stairs which gave access to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street). On this artery they followed a second street, parallel to Rua 1 de Maio (1st of May Street) whose name he does not remember. He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing). As he reached this artery, he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally and fitted in perfectly in that area, in that it is common to see people carrying children, at least during the holiday season. This individual was walking the downward path, in the opposite direction to him and his companions. He is not aware where this person was headed. He only saw him as they passed each other. He assumed it was a father and daughter, not raising any suspicion.
— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.
— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.
— He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed.
— She was wearing light-coloured pyjamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any wrap or blanket. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.
— Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent. He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.
— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child who was carried by the individual could have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, also the opinion shared by his family.
— Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.
— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.
— At being asked, states that when he saw the individual he was accompanied by his wife, MARY SMITH, his son, PETER SMITH, his daughter-in-law, S***, his grandchildren of 13 and 6 years of age (children of PETER) TA*** and CO**, his daughter AOIFE (12 years of age), and his other two grandchildren (AI****** (10 years old) and EI**** (four years old). These are children of his daughter B***** who was in Ireland.
— States also that when he passed this individual he was coming down the middle of the road, in the street, also that at that time traffic is minimal or non-existent.
— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other so they would have seen the individual in different positions.
— He adds a sketch indicating the route and the locale of the sighting.
— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.
— And nothing more was said. He reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 04.02.18 23:24
Witness statement Aoife Smith - 26th May 2007
— Being an English citizen, and not understanding Portuguese neither spoken nor written, she is accompanied by an interpreter.
— On 30 April 2007 she travelled to Portugal on holiday, specifically to the Algarve. She came with her parents Martin and Mary Smith and her two nieces, AC and EC.
— They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.
— When they arrived at the apartment they met her brother, Peter Smith, her sister-in-law, S.McD.Smith, her nephew (six years old), CO** and the son of her sister-in-law, TA*** (13 years old).
— They came on holiday for about 10 days, having returned to Ireland on 9 May 2007. (She is not absolutely certain of the day).
— Her days on holiday were spent in the swimming pool of the complex where they were lodged, on the beach of Luz and in the shopping centre. Normally, they were spent in Praia da Luz - Vila da Luz.
— Dinner was taken between 19h00 and 20h00, in the apartment or in the Restaurants "Dolphin", "Cavaleiro da Luz", "Chaplin" or the "Marujo", all situated in the Praia da Luz area.
' When they ate at home they would not normally go out. When they went to eat at the restaurants they stopped by Kelly's Bar, situated, she thinks, on Calheta Street in Praia da Luz.
— Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.
— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.
— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.
— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.
— It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in any location.
— She has seen photographs of Madeleine McCann and thinks that it could have been her. Asked, she said she was 60% certain.
— The description below made about the man and the female child that the witness saw was made at around 22H00, when the lighting was weak.
— Questioned, states that probably she would not be able to recognise either the individual or the child.
Personal Description:
— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child.
— (2) the child was female because she had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was fair/light brown.
— She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and they were the same size.
— She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.
— There was nothing covering the child, a comforter/blanket or any other piece of clothing but she only saw her back.
— She was wearing light trousers, white or light pink, that may have been pyjamas. She does not remember if they were patterned as it was dark. The material was lightweight/thin and could have been cotton.
— She also had a light top, with long sleeves. She did not see it well because the individual had his arms around the child. She is not sure if the child's top was the same colour as her trousers, saying only that it was very light. The fabric was the same as the trousers.
— Questioned regarding the shoes, she responded that she did not remember seeing any shoes, not remembering if the child had any or not.
— Asked to tell the truth, she affirms that what she has finished declaring is the truth of the facts, according to her knowledge.
— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it inconformity, ratifies and signs together with
— Being an English citizen, and not understanding Portuguese neither spoken nor written, she is accompanied by an interpreter.
— On 30 April 2007 she travelled to Portugal on holiday, specifically to the Algarve. She came with her parents Martin and Mary Smith and her two nieces, AC and EC.
— They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.
— When they arrived at the apartment they met her brother, Peter Smith, her sister-in-law, S.McD.Smith, her nephew (six years old), CO** and the son of her sister-in-law, TA*** (13 years old).
— They came on holiday for about 10 days, having returned to Ireland on 9 May 2007. (She is not absolutely certain of the day).
— Her days on holiday were spent in the swimming pool of the complex where they were lodged, on the beach of Luz and in the shopping centre. Normally, they were spent in Praia da Luz - Vila da Luz.
— Dinner was taken between 19h00 and 20h00, in the apartment or in the Restaurants "Dolphin", "Cavaleiro da Luz", "Chaplin" or the "Marujo", all situated in the Praia da Luz area.
' When they ate at home they would not normally go out. When they went to eat at the restaurants they stopped by Kelly's Bar, situated, she thinks, on Calheta Street in Praia da Luz.
— Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.
— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.
— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.
— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.
— It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in any location.
— She has seen photographs of Madeleine McCann and thinks that it could have been her. Asked, she said she was 60% certain.
— The description below made about the man and the female child that the witness saw was made at around 22H00, when the lighting was weak.
— Questioned, states that probably she would not be able to recognise either the individual or the child.
Personal Description:
— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.
— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.
— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child.
— (2) the child was female because she had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was fair/light brown.
— She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and they were the same size.
— She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.
— There was nothing covering the child, a comforter/blanket or any other piece of clothing but she only saw her back.
— She was wearing light trousers, white or light pink, that may have been pyjamas. She does not remember if they were patterned as it was dark. The material was lightweight/thin and could have been cotton.
— She also had a light top, with long sleeves. She did not see it well because the individual had his arms around the child. She is not sure if the child's top was the same colour as her trousers, saying only that it was very light. The fabric was the same as the trousers.
— Questioned regarding the shoes, she responded that she did not remember seeing any shoes, not remembering if the child had any or not.
— Asked to tell the truth, she affirms that what she has finished declaring is the truth of the facts, according to her knowledge.
— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it inconformity, ratifies and signs together with
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 04.02.18 23:28
Witness statement Peter Smith - 26th May 2007
— That he comes to the process as a witness.
— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its oral or written form and is therefore accompanied by an interpreter.
— States that his father owns an apartment in the town of Luz, Lagos, namely in Urban. Estrela da Luz, corresponding to A1C. His father comes to Portugal at least three times per year. The deponent went the first time that he travelled to Portugal.
— Concerning the period in question, states that he arrived in Portugal on the 26th of April of 2007 and had his return passage booked for the 4th of May of the same year. He arrived at Faro airport from the city of Dublin. That he arrived before his father, by choice, due to available days. He came accompanied by his wife, S***, and his two children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 years old respectively.
— He would like to clarify that on the 3rd of May, he and his family went to the Dolphin restaurant, situated in Praia da Luz, where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and went to Kelly's Bar, about one minute away on foot. In Kelly's Bar (he does not remember the name of the street it is on) they had a few drinks, having left from there around 21H50/22H00.
— They left the bar, and went up some steps that give access to a road just above. On this road they took a side street, the name of which he does not know, in the direction of Estrela da Luz. Immediately at the beginning of this road he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally, with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill. It appeared normal to him, like father and daughter. He adds that this individual was coming down the street, opposite to the direction of the deponent and his family. He does not know what direction the individual took as he only saw him as they passed each other.
— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 21H55/22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day
— At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.
— The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. He states that he did not notice those details as his pregnant wife was somewhat ill and he was constantly attending to her, not caring about observation of the individual.
— He states the child was female. She was perhaps two or three years old, in that she appeared to him to be a bit smaller than his niece of the same age. She was a child of normal build. She had blonde hair, of medium shade, not very light. Her skin was white, typically British. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep, having closed eyelids.
— He does not remember her clothing very well but thinks it was lightweight summer clothing, light in colour. He does not remember if she was covered with any wrap or blanket. He cannot affirm if she was barefoot.
— He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.
— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child that was carried by the individual may have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, an opinion shared by his family.
— Questioned, states that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was sleeping deeply. He adds also that the individual did not try to hide his face or lower his look, [doing] nothing [that would be] perceived as strange.
— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.
— At being asked, says that when he saw the individual, the deponent was accompanied by his wife, S***, his father MARTIN, his mother MARY, his children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 year old respectively, his sister AOIFE, 12 years old, and his two nieces AI******, 10 years, and EI****, 4 years, children of his sister B******, who was in Ireland.
— States further that when he passed the individual, the individual was coming down to his right, going around the deponent in the middle of the street. At that time the traffic was minimal or non-existent.
— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other, therefore they would have seen the individual in different positions.
— He adds a sketch indicating the route and place of the sighting.
— Adds further that his son TA*** was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot.
— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.
— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.
— That he comes to the process as a witness.
— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its oral or written form and is therefore accompanied by an interpreter.
— States that his father owns an apartment in the town of Luz, Lagos, namely in Urban. Estrela da Luz, corresponding to A1C. His father comes to Portugal at least three times per year. The deponent went the first time that he travelled to Portugal.
— Concerning the period in question, states that he arrived in Portugal on the 26th of April of 2007 and had his return passage booked for the 4th of May of the same year. He arrived at Faro airport from the city of Dublin. That he arrived before his father, by choice, due to available days. He came accompanied by his wife, S***, and his two children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 years old respectively.
— He would like to clarify that on the 3rd of May, he and his family went to the Dolphin restaurant, situated in Praia da Luz, where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and went to Kelly's Bar, about one minute away on foot. In Kelly's Bar (he does not remember the name of the street it is on) they had a few drinks, having left from there around 21H50/22H00.
— They left the bar, and went up some steps that give access to a road just above. On this road they took a side street, the name of which he does not know, in the direction of Estrela da Luz. Immediately at the beginning of this road he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally, with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill. It appeared normal to him, like father and daughter. He adds that this individual was coming down the street, opposite to the direction of the deponent and his family. He does not know what direction the individual took as he only saw him as they passed each other.
— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 21H55/22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day
— At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.
— The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. He states that he did not notice those details as his pregnant wife was somewhat ill and he was constantly attending to her, not caring about observation of the individual.
— He states the child was female. She was perhaps two or three years old, in that she appeared to him to be a bit smaller than his niece of the same age. She was a child of normal build. She had blonde hair, of medium shade, not very light. Her skin was white, typically British. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep, having closed eyelids.
— He does not remember her clothing very well but thinks it was lightweight summer clothing, light in colour. He does not remember if she was covered with any wrap or blanket. He cannot affirm if she was barefoot.
— He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.
— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child that was carried by the individual may have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, an opinion shared by his family.
— Questioned, states that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was sleeping deeply. He adds also that the individual did not try to hide his face or lower his look, [doing] nothing [that would be] perceived as strange.
— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.
— At being asked, says that when he saw the individual, the deponent was accompanied by his wife, S***, his father MARTIN, his mother MARY, his children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 year old respectively, his sister AOIFE, 12 years old, and his two nieces AI******, 10 years, and EI****, 4 years, children of his sister B******, who was in Ireland.
— States further that when he passed the individual, the individual was coming down to his right, going around the deponent in the middle of the street. At that time the traffic was minimal or non-existent.
— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other, therefore they would have seen the individual in different positions.
— He adds a sketch indicating the route and place of the sighting.
— Adds further that his son TA*** was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot.
— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.
— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.
Guest- Guest
Re: Key Witness Statements - For Information Only
by Guest 27.02.18 1:53
Witness Statement of Susan Hubbard - 13th November 2007
[Susan Hubbard, wife of Father Haynes Hubbard, Anglican priest transferred from his placement in Canada to Praia da Luz in May 2007. According to a press report Susan Hubbard considered their transfer to be an act of God - a calling to aid a couple in distress].
' That she comes to the process as a witness
' Is married to Anglican Father Haynes
' Has known the McCann family since three days after the disappearance (Sunday). That she went to Portugal on this date (06 May 2007), not to accompany the family but due to work related to the church, which was previously organized.
' That it is the truth that she only knows them through the church and never met them before.
' States that after getting to know the parents of the missing child, she invited Kate to take part in a meeting, in Lagos, on the 25th of May, with the intention of discussing items related to missing children. That she went to this meeting, with Kate and Kates cousin, Anne. They travelled to this meeting in the deponents car.
' After this occasion, she went various times to the McCann residence in Praia da Luz, and they also visited the deponent, in her home, on various occasions. These encounters had the objective of offering them comfort and support but also allowed for the children of both couples to play.
' She also adds that the McCann's' although being Catholics, attended some masses, where Madeleines disappearance was noted, celebrated by her husband, the Anglican priest.
' Questioned regarding the key to the church, she says that she knows nothing of this. Following the McCann departure to England, she was given the key to handover to the place the McCann's rented in Praia da Luz. She handed this key over the next Monday. Her handling of the key was suggested by one of the McCann family but she does not remember who. She notes that on this Monday, she handed over the keys to the cleaning staff who forwarded the key to the responsible rental agent and whose designation she does not remember.
' Besides these contacts, she did not maintain and other relation with the McCann family.
' Sean and Amelie, she notes, are children of normal behaviour for their age. They are active and dynamic.
' Regarding the parents, Gerald and Kate, she says that, in her opinion, they always presented a normal comportment, given the circumstances. That she noted a certain tranquillity, when in the presence of the twins. Via their gestures, she noted a great sadness and suffering. In their conversations, they would always talk of their missing daughter.
' Regarding Kate, she says that, besides being preoccupied with the health of her daughter, she was scared of what could have happened to Madeleine although she never spoke of her death.
' She describes them as a normal family
' She is not aware of any relevant details for the investigation. She claims that the parents are not involved in the disappearance and knows nothing else, other than what she has related.
' And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, and ratifies and signs.
[Susan Hubbard, wife of Father Haynes Hubbard, Anglican priest transferred from his placement in Canada to Praia da Luz in May 2007. According to a press report Susan Hubbard considered their transfer to be an act of God - a calling to aid a couple in distress].
' That she comes to the process as a witness
' Is married to Anglican Father Haynes
' Has known the McCann family since three days after the disappearance (Sunday). That she went to Portugal on this date (06 May 2007), not to accompany the family but due to work related to the church, which was previously organized.
' That it is the truth that she only knows them through the church and never met them before.
' States that after getting to know the parents of the missing child, she invited Kate to take part in a meeting, in Lagos, on the 25th of May, with the intention of discussing items related to missing children. That she went to this meeting, with Kate and Kates cousin, Anne. They travelled to this meeting in the deponents car.
' After this occasion, she went various times to the McCann residence in Praia da Luz, and they also visited the deponent, in her home, on various occasions. These encounters had the objective of offering them comfort and support but also allowed for the children of both couples to play.
' She also adds that the McCann's' although being Catholics, attended some masses, where Madeleines disappearance was noted, celebrated by her husband, the Anglican priest.
' Questioned regarding the key to the church, she says that she knows nothing of this. Following the McCann departure to England, she was given the key to handover to the place the McCann's rented in Praia da Luz. She handed this key over the next Monday. Her handling of the key was suggested by one of the McCann family but she does not remember who. She notes that on this Monday, she handed over the keys to the cleaning staff who forwarded the key to the responsible rental agent and whose designation she does not remember.
' Besides these contacts, she did not maintain and other relation with the McCann family.
' Sean and Amelie, she notes, are children of normal behaviour for their age. They are active and dynamic.
' Regarding the parents, Gerald and Kate, she says that, in her opinion, they always presented a normal comportment, given the circumstances. That she noted a certain tranquillity, when in the presence of the twins. Via their gestures, she noted a great sadness and suffering. In their conversations, they would always talk of their missing daughter.
' Regarding Kate, she says that, besides being preoccupied with the health of her daughter, she was scared of what could have happened to Madeleine although she never spoke of her death.
' She describes them as a normal family
' She is not aware of any relevant details for the investigation. She claims that the parents are not involved in the disappearance and knows nothing else, other than what she has related.
' And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, and ratifies and signs.
Guest- Guest
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics» Witness statements
» NEW VIDEO - HOLIDAY Timeline from Kate's Book and Witness Statements - Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday
» Witness statements of Dr Ian Richard Schofield (Alpine Practice) 2008 and Dr Philip Hussey (McCann family doctor)
» A bit more information on those controversial Smithman efits - From Met Police answers to some more Freedom of Information Act Questions (11 Jun 2018)
» GNR Statements
» NEW VIDEO - HOLIDAY Timeline from Kate's Book and Witness Statements - Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday
» Witness statements of Dr Ian Richard Schofield (Alpine Practice) 2008 and Dr Philip Hussey (McCann family doctor)
» A bit more information on those controversial Smithman efits - From Met Police answers to some more Freedom of Information Act Questions (11 Jun 2018)
» GNR Statements
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Portuguese Police Investigation :: Official Polícia Judiciária McCann Files
Page 1 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
