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Post by jd on 09.05.12 14:16

I don't think the GNR statements have ever been fully analysed. These imo give a good insight of events that happened on May 3rd, as it happened, and really the only reliable source of information from that night

They are all consistent (yes there is something consistent!) that none of them saw murat that night, and that jane tanner was reporting her 'sighting'

The first GNR statement I am posting up is from Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa, the first policeman to arrive that night. Here he says jane tanner told him about her sighting as soon as he got there, which he thought was not credible "because when he asked her about the physical characteristics of the individual, she said it was very dark, however she saw the pyjamas clearly." and that jane tanner reporting her sighting is what 'started' the abduction scenario. ( so much for kate not knowing about it!)

He also states "He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand."

"He says that in the apartment there were two beds and two cots placed in Madeleine's room, he does not remember their position. The children never woke up, he is sure, not knowing what position they were in, however he found this situation to be very strange, as a lot of noise was made."

He adds that upon observing the scene it did not appear to him to be an abduction, but rather a normal disappearance where the child had left by her own means.

He also refers to a situation at about 02 or 03.00, that the parents asked for a priest and his colleague had tried to contact one on his mobile, but did not manage to find one.

He also emphasises the situation that someone, who he cannot identify, having contacted Sky News and the Embassy that night. He does not know if were the parents.

He also notes that he saw various photographs on normal A4 paper of the girl, which had been printed at the reception, as well as other photos on photographic paper, poster type 10x15, that could not have been printed at the reception. This seemed unusual to him and he later confirmed that it was not possible for them to have been printed at the reception.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NELSON-DA-COSTA.htm
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 14:32

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAOLO_COSTA.htm

From: Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

I don't understand this....
He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying: That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them

if this was Mrs Fenn then she has given a statement to the police at the time in May 2007, and also phoned murat???
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 14:37

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO-NETO.htm

From: Paolo Jorge Fernandes Neto

At about 02.15-02.30 and after having helped his colleagues from the PJ who had arrived at the site, they contacted the Commander again and were told to search the area surrounding the resort. During this search they were approached by two people, one, a Portuguese individual who worked at the Mirage Complex, who asked if they knew anything yet, and by a female who was with the individual and who participated in the conversation.

They were in the area until about 09.00 searching in coordination with GNR team members, at which time they were relieved by other officers who came on duty. He remembers that he saw the McCann couple at about 07.00 alone in the street next to the site where they were stationed.
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 14:39

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUI-SILVA.htm

From: Rui Segio Lopes Silva

He only had direct contact with the couple and their friends at about 04.00 when Gerry McCann approached the GNR group of which he was a member to ask whether there was a church close by. He replied to him in English, giving the directions to a nearby church.

During the searches that he carried out on the scene until 05.00, he saw many people searching and he especially remembers two large groups of 10-15 people. One close to the beach and the other near to the McCann apartment block in Rua Agostinho da Silva.

When asked about Robert Murat, he said that he did not see him on that night nor on other days when he went to the scene.
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 14:52

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_DUARTE.htm

From: Antonio Henrique de Conceicao Duarte

Upon questioning, he states that he arrived at the site of the disappearance of the young girl on 3rd May of this year, about 25 to 30 minutes after the patrol. Upon arriving at the site he was told that this was a case of abduction, this information being transmitted, he thinks, by the girl's father. He was also informed by Silvia (head of maintenance at the resort) that the parents and friends said it was an abduction, their intention being to inform the media, and that they were in fact making phone calls to this effect.

As regards the witness who alleged to have seen an individual carrying a child, whose (the witness) name he cannot remember, he says that upon learning of this situation, she stood next to two soldiers, awaiting the arrival of police officers. He did not speak to her as he does not speak English well


At 05.00/06.00 he left the scene, having returned a little after 07.00. He did not carry out any searches in the company of the child's family or friends.

As concerns the photos of the child, he says that he only saw what he calls the originals, poster type 10 x 15 cm on photographic paper. He did not see any other type of photos. Upon being shown a sample, he recognises it as being identical.

When asked he say he does not know the quantity of photos, but that there was more than one. He says that of these photos, at least five, he annexed one to the document he sent to the Tribunal and another four were handed to the officers carrying out searches, which were later returned and handed to the police, in due course.

He says he does not know who handed him the photos, different from each other, two by two.

He is sure that he is the person who received them.

He states that the photos came from inside the apartment, he still cannot say who had them. When he was inside the police car, gathering identification documents from the parents, he asked someone nearby for photos, he does not know if that person was Portuguese or British. This same person entered the apartment and came out with the photos.

He does not know whether it was Silvia Baptista who gave him the photos, as she was translating the conversations, neither whether it was someone from the family or friends.

He is sure that he received them in the early morning, at about 02.00, when the police arrived, after having carried out the first search.

He has the impression he saw the girl's father, however he cannot confirm whether he was the one to give him the photos.

He presumes he was given the photos directly, or in other words that they were not passed to him via someone else.

When questioned he says that the photos could not have been printed/revealed at the Ocean Club installations (they do not have this kind of paper). He adds that the photos produced the following day, which he observed, were printed on A4 paper, which was available at the resort.
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 15:01

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLOS-LACAO.htm

From: Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão

When they arrived at the scene, they entered the McCann's apartment by the front door, and entered the living room, where there were some PJ officers as well as the MCCann couple. The just talked to some colleagues from the PJ and asked for a piece of clothing that Madeleine had worn or used recently. They were given a pink/orange blanket that the child had been covered with in her bed.

They finished the searches at about 07.00 AM.

There were some unknown people helping in the searches, especially when they arrived at the resort. Their number decreased as it got later. Between 04.00 and 07.00 basically the only people searching were the witness, his colleague and another GNR officer. During this night as well as the following night, when he repeated the searches from 23.00 to 08.00 he did not see anyone suspicious.

He did not see Robert Murat on either of the nights. He did not search inside the apartment, just the verandas and surrounding areas.
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 15:06

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_PIMENTAL.htm

From: José Carlos Leal Pimental

At about 04.00 AM they searched the streets, gardens, caravans, lorries, etc. As well as questioning lorry drivers in the parking area next to the "Luz Tur" building, they stopped a caravan with two English individuals, who said they lived in the Espiche area. The caravan was duly searched. When carrying out the search of the resort area they also saw several local people helping to search. He remembers a woman named Silvia who worked at the resort. He left for home at about 04.20.

When asked about Robert Murat, he says that he does not remember having seen him at dawn, having seen him during the day on 4th May in the afternoon at about 17.00- 18.00. He saw Murat pass by close to the mobile post accompanied by Officer Costa. At this time he was searching, he (RM) appeared with roll of electrical cable, that he was going to give to the mobile GNR post in the Rua Agostinho da Silva.

The witness saw him that night at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant. He was sitting at a table with some OC employees, including, as he recalls, Silvia responsible for maintenance at the resort.
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 15:19

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

From: Jose Maria Batista Roque

On 3rd May he was on duty at the events, he arrived at the OC at about 23.00 accompanied by Officer Costa. They were the first to arrive on the scene.

The questioned made, the deponent states that the access to interior of the residence was accessed through a principal door- this is, a wood door which is placed facing north;
. Inside, the deponent encountered the mother and two siblings of the missing minor;
. The deponent stats that he is unable to specify if that entrance door was found open or closed when he reached the apartment during which he was taking in the facts with the witness is now clarifying;

He remembers that inside the apartment Madeleine had disappeared from was the mother and another foreign woman, whom he assumed to be a friend of the family.

When asked, he says he never saw Murat on any of the occasions he was at the site.

After hearing about the circumstances of the disappearance (from the father with the help of translation) at a determined moment he thinks it was the father who told the translator that it was an abduction, at least this is how it was translated. He then went to the apartment, accompanied by his colleague, the father and friend as well as the translator. When he arrived at the apartment he saw the mother there, who opened the wooden door, now referred to as the main door. When he entered, apart from the mother, there were three individuals, one female and two male, whom he cannot identify.

Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge.

During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care. There was a mark on the sheet that appeared to be made by a child's body

After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.

He never heard the parents ask to see a priest.

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

He says there were two children in cots placed in Madeleine's room in a transversal position to the beds. The children never woke up, were in a ventral position, they did not even move during or after the search.

He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father.

As regards the sofa next to the window, he thinks, but is not sure, that it was against the wall.

He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ.
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Post by friedtomatoes on 09.05.12 19:52

@jd wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAOLO_COSTA.htm

From: Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

I don't understand this....
He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying: That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them

mrs fenns statement on the files is in august, which always confused me, why so late, im wondering if there was another neighbour reporting this, though why they would ring murat??? i think this could be a translation error?

if this was Mrs Fenn then she has given a statement to the police at the time in May 2007, and also phoned murat???
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 20:25

No its not a translation error. Either Mrs Fenn phoned murat which is plausible seeing they both lived there, or another woman did...Either way, there is another statement somewhere reporting the crying

Who and where?

The mccanns were very worried about these cryings, which imo they proved by bringing up the maddie twins crying question in their first statements
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Post by Nina on 09.05.12 21:01

I have this recall that a child's crying was reported being heard in another apartment block. not the Mrs Fenn report of crying, another one,but was linked with a question if the abducted Madeleine was being held somewhere.

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Post by jd on 09.05.12 21:11

@Nina wrote:I have this recall that a child's crying was reported being heard in another apartment block. not the Mrs Fenn report of crying, another one,but was linked with a question if the abducted Madeleine was being held somewhere.

Ive not heard about this before, especially another statement on it. I know that OC staff complained about the crying too, can't remember if it was the 3rd or on another night
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Post by Guest on 09.05.12 22:27

About the crying I had forgotten this article - read what Mrs Fenn says in this article..................



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481168/Gerry-Madeleines-real-father-The-Portuguese-medias-latest-attack-McCanns.html
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Post by jd on 09.05.12 22:42

Thanks CF...."Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below

Its funny, I was thinking today about jane tanners involvement of what would make her put herself on the line like she has. I did get round to thinking maybe in a violent temper kate hit Maddie to keep her quiet and Maddie then accidentally fell etc...and tanner was a witness to it being in the same room. I have read so many things about kate having this violent temper, and though in interviews she is restrained but when put under pressure she does show signs of it. I have no doubt she has bad and violent temper
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Post by friedtomatoes on 12.05.12 23:35

@jd wrote:Thanks CF...."Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below

Its funny, I was thinking today about jane tanners involvement of what would make her put herself on the line like she has. I did get round to thinking maybe in a violent temper kate hit Maddie to keep her quiet and Maddie then accidentally fell etc...and tanner was a witness to it being in the same room. I have read so many things about kate having this violent temper, and though in interviews she is restrained but when put under pressure she does show signs of it. I have no doubt she has bad and violent temper

correct but gerry has the same, though his comes out more often, not as controlled, two peas in a pod, always been my opinion kate mccann is a control freak of the highest order, and on that note will say my goodnight as I seem to be the only one posting tonight.
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Post by tigger on 13.05.12 6:38

@jd wrote:Thanks CF...."Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below

Its funny, I was thinking today about jane tanners involvement of what would make her put herself on the line like she has. I did get round to thinking maybe in a violent temper kate hit Maddie to keep her quiet and Maddie then accidentally fell etc...and tanner was a witness to it being in the same room. I have read so many things about kate having this violent temper, and though in interviews she is restrained but when put under pressure she does show signs of it. I have no doubt she has bad and violent temper

More and more she seems to me to be on medication. I would think on the lines of manic depressive. I have personal experience of such people switching from normal to rage in seconds. Alcohol doesn't help - it takes away what little control there is.

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Post by friedtomatoes on 13.05.12 16:04

A very duplicitous and deceptive woman IMO, at the very least, and best, her book proves that without a shadow of a doubt.
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Post by Smokeandmirrors on 13.05.12 20:47

@jd wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

From: Jose Maria Batista Roque

On 3rd May he was on duty at the events, he arrived at the OC at about 23.00 accompanied by Officer Costa. They were the first to arrive on the scene.

The questioned made, the deponent states that the access to interior of the residence was accessed through a principal door- this is, a wood door which is placed facing north;
. Inside, the deponent encountered the mother and two siblings of the missing minor;
. The deponent stats that he is unable to specify if that entrance door was found open or closed when he reached the apartment during which he was taking in the facts with the witness is now clarifying;

He remembers that inside the apartment Madeleine had disappeared from was the mother and another foreign woman, whom he assumed to be a friend of the family.

When asked, he says he never saw Murat on any of the occasions he was at the site.

After hearing about the circumstances of the disappearance (from the father with the help of translation) at a determined moment he thinks it was the father who told the translator that it was an abduction, at least this is how it was translated. He then went to the apartment, accompanied by his colleague, the father and friend as well as the translator. When he arrived at the apartment he saw the mother there, who opened the wooden door, now referred to as the main door. When he entered, apart from the mother, there were three individuals, one female and two male, whom he cannot identify.

Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge.

During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care. There was a mark on the sheet that appeared to be made by a child's body

After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.

He never heard the parents ask to see a priest.

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

He says there were two children in cots placed in Madeleine's room in a transversal position to the beds. The children never woke up, were in a ventral position, they did not even move during or after the search.

He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying. He did not feel that this was an abduction, although this was the line indicated by the father.

As regards the sofa next to the window, he thinks, but is not sure, that it was against the wall.

He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ.

The bit I've put in red freaks me out TBH. Not seen all the translated statements before. Implies fakery from the get-go.

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Post by jd on 14.05.12 2:34

This is why I posted them up. As well as to get a true perspective on what really happened this night. What you highlighted in red is absolutely true, there were no tears but just "sounds" of crying

And lets remember that the only so called "evidence' to an abduction comes from one single source..The Tapas 9.....thats it!. Apart from charlotte pennington who just happened was living in the same remote town of New Zealand as kate & gerry back in 1997 and arrived the same day as the mccanns in PDL, there is no evidence from outside the Tapas 9. Not from any of the holidaymakers or anybody there at the time, nobody but the Tapas 9. And lets not forget this one very true FACT...After 5 years there is not ONE single...and I mean not ONE single shred of evidence to support their abduction claim..NOT ONE! After 5 whole years and investigations not ONE! Believe the mccanns at your peril

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Post by bobbin on 14.05.12 7:39

snipped...Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and
the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire
apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and
kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine.
He did not see the fridge.... snipped

This GNR statement would have been written in Portuguese. Given that translation is sometimes not exact, can a Portuguese member please look at the actual wording and grammatical structure and explain if there is an improvement in translation.

'He did not see the fridge' would normally follow the question, 'did he see the fridge ?'

Could his statement be translated as 'He noticed there was no fridge', 'He did not look in the fridge', or anything else ?

Given that we recall, but can no longer find any reference to Gerry McCann mentioning a fridge being broken and removed to the dump and a new one being bought, this above mention of fridge (possibly absent when it should not have been) could perhaps encourage some later back-filling explanation, as we have seen so many times.

Also, if the fridge should have been expected to be seen in a holiday apartment, and was not there, had it been removed to the neighbouring flat (5H for instance where the Portuguese dogs signalled) with the use of a key provided by 'someone' who held the key.

There may be a completely simple explanation, but please can a bilingual Portuguese / English member clarify the rather odd GNR statement as the English version seems strange.
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Post by friedtomatoes on 14.05.12 17:20

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

I think the fridge can be seen in the kitchen, behind the door.
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Post by bobbin on 14.05.12 19:54

@friedtomatoes wrote:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

I think the fridge can be seen in the kitchen, behind the door.

I find the photos confusing, relative to the design of the kitchen.

If you look at photo 11, with the windows and sink straight ahead, the door seems to be opening to the left, up to the corner edge of the oven/hob. If this is the case, the fridge on the right would be totally visible.

If you look at 12, windows and sink to the right hand side, I agree there is something white which could be a fridge freezer. It is not clear which way the door is opening, but if the door is opening onto the side of the fridge, it cannot justify the position of the door in the other photo.

My thoughts being, if the door is opening to the left, it would not be difficult to see fridge on right. Also, if looking through the opening dining to kitchen, the fridge would also be visible.
I a just curious as to why the statement says, he did not see the fridge.
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Post by friedtomatoes on 15.05.12 0:14

door opensleft to right, fridge is right behind the door, sorry theres enough rub bish in this case
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Post by bobbin on 15.05.12 9:53

@friedtomatoes wrote:door opensleft to right, fridge is right behind the door, sorry theres enough rub bish in this case

Good morning friedtomatoes, I hope you have had a better nights sleep, after staying up so late to pass comment on my post.

In terms of your opinion that 'there is enough rubbish in this case' (forgive me for correcting your bad spelling) please re-read my posts and if you are bilingual in Portuguese / English, please give some possible explanation for the GNR statement by Jose Maria Batista Roque, who with officer Costa, did a complete search of rooms, opening doors, looking under beds, BUT SAYS HE DID NOT SEE THE FRIDGE.

I wonder how he did not see the fridge if it was there, and why he should highlight the fact that he did not see the fridge.

Given that it seems odd to make such a statement, I make the next deduction and query if something has been lost in translation.
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Post by monkey mind on 15.05.12 10:03

Bobbin, it's a good question, but friedtomatoes doesn' seem to like those.
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