Key Witness Statements - For Information Only

continued....

DC1485'Try to position yourself during the second visit; given what happened on Thursday, think about the hour you arrived. Think about whether someone welcomed you when you exited the car. Ok'

CT' Mmm.

DC1485'On Thursday.

CT' Well, we arrived and went directly to the apartment. My husband thinks that he noticed something. I think that we went to the supermarket on the street to the restaurant to see if' to find blubs for the light fixture. This was before lunch. We looked around the supermarket for these special bulbs for her. He could have gone alone or' I do not know. I did not go but it is possible he went, but no'I cannot remember. We got together and had coffee and after went out for lunch. It had to around noon or something similar but it was probably noon because we wanted to get to the restaurant around this time as it fills quickly and is well known and frequented by locals. They only serve fish, fish, fish, but she adores it. For this reason we had to arrive early before the other people' around noon.

DC1485'Noon.

CT'Well we must have left home around 11h00 to 11h30'mmm'

DC1485'And did you go on foot or by car'

CT'No, we had to drive there.

DC1485'How long did the journey take'

CT'Hum, it was not very long'it is in Lagos.

DC1485'It is in Lagos.

CT'Yes, from Luz to Lagos.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'It must have been about 15 minutes.

DC1485'Okay. What was the restaurant called'

CT'Well, I do not remember the name (inaud'le) or something like that. It is located in the old part of the city and one goes climbing until the top (inaudible) yes. 'Esquitera' or something like that. I don't remember its proper name.

DC1485'It is a restaurant that serves fish'

CT'It is a restaurant that serves fish. It is very well known.

DC1485'On top of the hill'

CT'But it is not a tourist location; it is more for local people, more or less, but it is the best, mmm, and it is not refined. The tables are made of wood with oilcloth and the fish, you know... it is wonderful.

DC1485--Yes.

CT'But I cannot remember the name it is (inaudible) or something like that.

DC1485'Okay.

DC1485'Did you go to the Tapas Bar with your aunt'

CT'No, no, no it was not there when I visited the last time, and it is something very recent; I believe that it was built about a year ago and I was there before the Tapas Bar was constructed. I think it was a part of the reception or something similar. We were not there before. It is very new.

DC1485'And the courts, did you visit the tennis courts'

CT'No, we do not play tennis and we did not swim in the pool.

DC1485'You did not use the pool'

CT'No.

DC1485'And the cr'he'did you go to the cr'he zone where the children were'

CT'No, I would not go to the cr'he as there was no reason to.

DC1485'Okay. How many times were you there exactly'

CT'Hum... in Portugal or in Luz'

DC1485'Okay, in this resort'

CT'A few times, perhaps three; the first time was when my aunt moved in 2003 or 2004 and after that for a week. My brother dies in 2003 and I remember that my uncle, Aunt Pamela's husband, died in June of 2003. As there were four deaths in our family in the first four months of that year, the time of her move has stayed in my memory.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And, she was very upset with all of it, and I was trying to help her cope along with dealing with my twin brother's death. For this reason, I went to visit her for a week in February in 2004. It was my first time in that place but we had already been in Luz before that when we went to Portugal as tourists. After that, we went a second time with my husband and stayed in (inaudible) a small fishing village about 10 minutes from Luz. We have already been in Portugal many times, but to visit Luz only three times.

DC1485'Okay. When you were there how was the temperature'

CT'It was good, sunny and hot. At times it was necessary to use a sweater but during the day it was marvellous. Besides this, it was fresh and but very agreeable.

CT'I believe it rained one day; it was a bit windy, besides this... it was wonderful weather ' not for sun bathing, even though there were people doing just this but it was not really sun bathing weather.

DC1485'The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.

CT'Outline'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Oh my God.

DC1485'You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.

CT'Mmm.

DC1485'You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace'

CT'Mmm, mmm

DC1485'This, this is a map, it only covers the Luz area and he have here, if you can imagine, or even see exactly, the block of apartments.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'And here is the pool.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Here is the Tapas Bar and restaurant.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Here is the tennis court.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'Right here.

DC1485'This is rua estreita.

CT'That is rua estreita.

DC1485'The passageway, right.

DC1485'Point me to the direction from which the individual came.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'And if you could show me in the way a camera captures an image. From, from which apartment did he leave and to where did he go and where were you'

CT'In my aunt's, in the apartment of my aunt in the corner to the top.

DC1485'Yes.

DC1485'Look to the bottom where you were looking, if you want. You were looking to the bottom to the right and downwards, but this is not towards the lower apartment but is actually slightly to the right and there is her veranda and finally, here on top, for I would say that here there is a small gate'for this reason it was not this apartment in the end, that is what I wanted to say, you know'

CT'It was not the last one, yes, it was not exactly the last of the street.

DC1485'No, it was not the first gate.

CT'Of the interior.

CT'Where, if you have access.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'From there, there is a gate. It was not this gate, it was'when you leave the rua estreita, is it the very first gate you see.

DC1485'How many gates are there in total'

CT'I think that all of them have small gates.

DC1485'I am looking.

CT'Yes, as I recall or think, but I believe they are for all people. I am not certain because I never saw the lower apartments having access to the others, no. For this reason, he was leaving and after looked from side to side and continued walking on the street. I did not see in which direction he left, and it is here that I think I saw him, but it is not possible for someone to leave from this gate.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Or perhaps it is here from which the people or'perhaps I did not notice that there was another small gate.

DC1485'Oh, I am seeing it.

CT'I thought that there was only this gate.

DC1485'Thus, here lies the confusion' to clarify things.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'It is not exactly the principal gate because, as you noted, the ultimate apartment is where the McCann's were lodged.

CT'Well I did not know. As you know I was on the top.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And so it is clear, it was not this apartment from which I was looking.

DC1485'Your aunt's apartment is exactly on top'

CT'Yes, it is directly on top.

DC1485'But it is two floors up'

CT'It is the last one, yes.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Well then, I was looking to the first gate at the end of the alley.

DC1485'Yes, yes.

CT'It was there that I saw the person leave.

DC1485'Okay, and your direction was this way, following the passageway or to the other direction towards the shrubs'

CT'No, it was towards the gate.

DC1485'In the inside.

CT'Yes, because humm... it must be, there are shrubs and there is no gate there.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'As far as I know.

DC1485'Okay, yes.

CT'I did not, I do not remember any gates. I believe that you have to go up and around, or to go through a different passage, or something like this.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I was never exactly in the area below but I do know that it was this locale, humm... and I told my husband, I should tell him this. I had no idea that it was this was the apartment they stayed. I only knew that which I saw and I was not wasting time. (inaudible)

DC1485'No, not in any way. We only want to clarify everything.

CT'It is only that gate, that is the only one.

DC1485'Would you mind making me an outline, please'

continued....

T'Sure.

DC1485'If you would, if you make it, if you could make the same one as this block here.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'And after, please mark an X in the location where you saw this man leaving.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'And after where, where is the gate in relation to the area from where he left.

CT'So, here is the block, okay, then the veranda of my aunt and here on top.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I am looking forward, here in the bottom is a small gate and here is the rua estreita. There is the rua estreita and there are shrubs here and here, the small gates, they are all like this and you climb some steps or can enter from the right, I believe, to enter the apartment. Thus I am looking more or less upwards to downwards and he left from here' the first gate you reach. I did not know of this one here, I did not know of this one.

DC1485'Ah ah.

CT'What I know is that this is the gate and this is what I thought.

DC1485'And can you tell me if he came out of an apartment or was simply exiting the complex'

CT'He was leaving, he was exiting.

DC1485'From an apartment'

CT'I did not see him leave an apartment. I only saw him leave from the gate.

DC1485'Did the gate give direct access to the apartment'

CT'But he was, yes... mmm... no, not at the last apartment.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I suppose there is another apartment.

DC1485'Okay. I am seeing it.

CT' According to what I saw below, it happened here, it could have been the last apartment.

DC1485'In your opinion, is it possible that he was leaving his apartment, next to the last apartment'

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'This, this is just to say'

CT'Probably, oh it is right to say this because I would hate to state that he was; he may not have been leaving because that past one was a different entrance.

Dc1485'Yes, okay.

CT'A different entrance as a whole, the site closest to that row, the first door must have been next to the stairs.

DC1485'Yes and after you saw him leave, what happened'

CT'Well, he opened the gate from inside and made so he did not make any noise, I only'it was what made me feel strange about it. He did this all very quietly, as if... you know, when a gate creeks, but he ensured that it did not make noise, it could have been (inaudible)

DC1485'With caution'

CT'Yes, simply ensuring that it did not bang, and I know some people who enter without banging the doorafter they enter, so this was very cautious, very careful, and for this reason, only this reason, I called you.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'It looked as though he was leaving, he closed it with both his hands, many times, closing it in silence and cautiously with both hands and he looked lastly this way downwards, first to this side.

DC1485'So what you are saying is that he looked first in your direction' He looked to you, but he was not positioned. This way

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Then he looked to the left.

CT'Oh I see.

DC1485'And after he cautiously and slowly pushed it and afterwards looked to the right, and continued walking.

CT'And he'the direction he took was to the street.

DC1485'He then went in this direction to the street, here, this street.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Along here in this direction towards the supermarket.

CT'Yes. But I do not know if he went in that direction or in this direction.

DC1485'(inaudible)

CT'Walking this way upwards and I then turned to my aunt and my husband.

DC1485'Then on your map, where do you believe you saw him for the last time'

CT'At the exterior of the gate. He was closing it.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And moving there in an upwards direction.

DC1485'Yes, then, the last location at which you saw him, he would have been, would it be possible that the last time you saw him, he was passing the apartments in direction of the street'

CT'No, I only saw him walking and I did not see him on the rua estreita for when I turned to speak with my family, he was, he was probably always at the the top of the street, and.

DC1485'Okay. I am not here to put words in your mouth, or ideas in your head Carole, but it is possible that the last time you saw him he was only passing through, as I have already indicated from the location of the McCann apartment. The last time you saw him was passing by the McCann apartment then'

CT'Possibly, possibly, yes, I only know that I did not see him turn to the right or the left. I did not look more after he passed the gate. I only know the direction in which he went. He simply went in this direction, in that direction.

DC1485'Then Mrs. Tranmer, what happened first, did you lose sight of him or did he disappear from your line if sight'

CT'No, I lost sight of him.

DC1485'So you turned'

CT'I simply turned away.

DC1485'You turned'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'With your back to him'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Then before you turned, he was still visible'

CT'He was still visible.

DC1485'And you as well.

CT'When I turned, it was obvious he was heading somewhere. I only know that he was headed in that direction.

DC1485'Very good, okay.

CT'Then, I turned like this and he disappeared.

DC1485'This is great, it is great, it is clear, okay. I am going to now try to ask a serues of questions that the Portuguese police would like to ask you, okay'

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'Perhaps you have already answered before but what I want you to do, it to respond with as much detail possible. Good, the first questions is ' do you attest to you statement given to the British police in May of two thousand'eight of may of 2007. Do you attest to the statement that was made on this day to the police, the same statement that I showed you on the 8th of May'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'This statement is yours'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'I will only, it is not necessary to read, but I am going to show you as it is necessary to confirm your statement and that it is your statement.

CT'It appears to be, yes.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Okay, thank you, and the only anomaly is the incorrect date.

CT'The date, the date is definitely wrong.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'We had arrived on the 28th or the 29th of...

DC1485'April.

CT'April, yes. It was in April and not in May.

DC1485'Well, I am going to help you refresh your memory anew and back to when this individual appeared.

CT'Mmm.

DC1485'You have already stated that is was on Thursday because this was the day you visited your aunt.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'And at what time, I need to come to a definitive time with the hours.

CT'Okay, mmm, mmm.

DC1485'What do you think, it was not after the... and it was not before the'

CT'No it was not late.

DC1485'I assume that I was there, I was there between...we were there around 11, 10 or 11. We took my aunt, we must have left around 11h30, a quarter to noon, and in order to go to the restaurant. Now it may have been a bit early. We had a coffee before we left and really strange to me is the feeling that it could have happened then'I feel that it was when we returned and were drinking coffee.

DC1485'Then you mentioned previously, you said before that you left around 6h30.

CT'Yes, we left.




DC1485'So, let us recap.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'How much time.

CT'We were there around, we returned from lunch around 3h00 or 3h30, and we were there from 3h30 until 6h30. I know that it was 6h30.

DC1485'Then for a total of three hours, and there were (inaudible) for three hours, yes'

CT'It was minimum of three hours, yes, because we were talking and I had the sensation that we were longer than in the morning, and therefore, it was in these three hours when I saw him and was looking from the veranda. I know that it will look horrible because it will only confuse everyone, but if I were to state that it occurred during the morning. I am still not sure it was the morning or the afternoon. I only know that we were together on the terrace.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'But the truth is that I cannot. I am trying my hardest to tell you if it was morning or evening.

DC1485'Good, you left around 8h30, sorry, 6h30.

CT'Yes, we left.

continued....

DC1485'Okay, and for how long did you think you saw him'

CT'Well, humm... the time it takes to leave, shut the gate, look to the side, look to that side, a few seconds because he did not take very long to do this, I would say that it was for a minute or something like that.

DC1485'And I know that you pointed to the map, as you know, that you were on the third floor and he was here, this is, rua estreita, as you revelead'

CT'No, no it appears, humm... it is simply long, because the apartments on the first level jut out a bit, the veranda belongs to my aunt.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Therefore, when I say that I am looking below, it is only really looking below...

DC1485'And how, what is your opinion; are you good at measuring distances'

CT'If am am good in measuring distances, recollecting faces, mmm'very good. Are you talking measurements in metres, yards or in feet'

DC1485'Humm, in feet.

DC1485'Please continue.

CT'From where, where I stood'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Okay, I would then say, humm, close to the roof.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'It would be the measurement of one double-decker bus which, which is the measurement of a double-decker bus.

DC1485'You refer to the top of the double-decker, the double-decker until the end'

CT'Yes, yes.

DC1485'I though you said that you were capable of being precise.

CT'Well, it is difficult, isn't it'

DC1485'Have you looked here to outside'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Is it roughly the same height'

CT'Humm, yes, but two, two floors up.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Two floors and a bit upwards.

DC1485'Are the apartments have high ceilings or low-ceilings'

CT'Humm, no... they are higher than this.

DC1485'They are higher than this.

CT'Yes, yes.

DC1485'Or it could be, we are speaking, if I told you 30 metres, twenty meters, thirty metres, 40 metres, which do uou think it would be'

DC1485'Feet and inches

CT'Ahh... feet, if I told you, then, I would from top to bottom it was about' I don't know, 20 feet.

DC1485'Yes, because there we were also on the top of a hill.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Thus 20, 30 feet for sure, I would that it was around this.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Because we were also on a hill. But on the rua estreita I don't think there is a relief.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Mmm.

DC1485'And the temperature, you told me that the temperature was cold but it was sunny on this day or were you covered.

CT'It was sunny, but... humm... it cooled down at night, hummm, I believe it was sunny, mmm.

DC1485'It seems to me that you would recognise this individual were you to see him again'

CT'Yes, I would recognize him. Don't ask me why but I know that I would.

DC1485'Okay, and you told me, when we were speaking of his behaviour, you told me that he left and shut the gate very slowly after himself, that he had to turn. With both his hands.

CT'With both hands.

DC1485'He turned and pulled the gate, he pulled or pushed the gate closed'

CT'Humm... he pulled it.

DC1485'Because it opens from the inside'

CT'It opens from the inside.

DC1485'Yes, then when you saw him leave, he had to pull the gate in his direction.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Okay, and you told me that he was doing this stealthily, what do you mean by stealthily'

CT'Stealth, humm... someone who would draw my attention, you know, the normal way of entering and exiting a gate, one opens the gate and just leaves, but he did this as though he wanted to make the minimum amount of noise, that is stealthily, and as if, he did not want anyone to know that he was coming or going.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'This was very, very unusual and it was this that stayed in my memory.

DC1485'This was the photo-sketch that you reproduced'

CT'No, he did not use spectacles, but he did have this type of hair.

DC1485'Yes, I was intrigued that the reason for his sunglasses.

CT'He did not have sunglasses, he did not use spectacles and his mouth was not like this, and his nose was not like this, it is not the same person.

DC1485'Then you are telling me that this is not the photo-fit that you made'

CT'No.

DC1485'No.

CT'Because he has glasses, he did not use glasses.

Dc1485'No, but the hair is the same'

CT'The hair is right. More or less.

DC1485'I know that the image is not very good.

CT'And it appears that he has something on his chin that he did not have, humm, but the format is similar, he certainly did not use glasses, and his mouth was different.

DC1485'Okay, but the top of his...

CT'The top, his head is...

DC1485'The same.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'The format of the face is the same, the format of the mouth is the same'

CT'Well, he had a long face.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Yes, this, this you know.

DC1485'But this is not it, this is not your photo-sketch.

CT'No, certainly it is not.

DC1485'No, it is not... okay. And the name Tasmin.

CT'Is this what they sent'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'This I made'

DC1485'Well, do you remember the name of the person who made the photo with you'

CT'No, a young person, humm...

DCc1485'Male'

CT'Yes, male, a young man, hummm.

DC1485'Tasmin, does that have any significance for you'

CT'No.

DC1485'No.

CT'From Reading.

DC1485'Yes, from Reading.

CT'I signed something, he had a CD and did everything on computer.

DC1485'Okay, sure.

CT'But this, this is not like the one he did.

DC1485'Well, there must be some confusion. I would like to finally ask you regarding your aunt, Pamela FENN.

CT'Pamela FENN, mmm

DC1485'Speak to me about her.

CT'Humm, of what' Her age or her type of lifestyle'

DC1485'Yes... where she used to live, you told me that she moved there in 2003'

CT'No, no ,no, she moved there around a good 20 or 30 years ago.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Together, my aunt and uncle used to live in Stratfield Saye.

DC1485'Where'

CT'Stratfield Saye which is in Berkshire, the border with Surrey and when they sold the house they moved to Portugal. He designed and constructed a villa, not exactly in Lagos, but in the immediate vicinity. They bought the land and lived there happily for many years until he got ill with Alzheimer and for the last 10 years, it was she who took care of him with the exception of the last 18 months when he spent his time in a facility. When he died, she bought this apartment, and she lives their practically alone and the family, as you know, we visit her with frequency and she (sorry) goes many times to the U.K. She has three children, all married who also have children. She therefore has grandchildren, but she likes Portugal, she likes the climate, she is happy there, she has friends, and humm... she would never return here unless she had no choice (inaudible), there is not more to add.

DC1485--So she still has family in England'


CT'Oh yes, the has three married children and many grandchildren.

DC1485'Where do they live'

CT'They'one lives in Sandhurst, he is a colonel and has been stationed in Belgrade for about 4 years, the other lives in Kent and owns a bar, and the other lives in London and is the manager of a marketing business. All of them, the one in Kent has three children, and the other has one child and they, N***is in Camberley and had two children. She had grandchildren. After this is me, I am her nieces and my sister, J*** lives in Guildford. For this reason we are spread out and she comes to spend the holidays and Christmas.

DC1485'Is there anybody in the family called (inaudible), any younger member called FENN'

CT'Yes, all of them. All of them are called FENN. They are all men, for this reason they are all FENN.

DC1485'They are all FENN.

CT'The whole family is called FENN.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'A series of FENN, yes

DC1485'And girls'

CT'No, she does not have girls.

DC1485'So there are no girls with the name FENN.

CT'Only by marriage.

DC1485'And the children.

CT'They are all FENNs.

DC1485'They are all FEN'S. What are their names'

CT'Well, there is'H*** and C**** FENN, they are married and have ***** and C***** who lives in Camberley in Sandhurst which is the military base, after there is S***** FENN and his wife N**** who have a daughter named M*****, for this reason, they are all FENNs. After this is I**** FENN who has an older son, no two boys... I am becoming confused, two daughters who are all FENNs and she will have a great-granddaughter this month, sorry, next month.

continued....

DC1485'A big family.

CT'Yes, a big family, humm... and her husband, my uncle's family was from Australia, but I believe that this is... mmm

DC1485'Okay. Finally Carole, I would like to go over with you the photos you brought with you, which you showed to me before the interview.

CT'Mmm, mmm

DC1485'Please clarify for me, when these were taken, who took it, and...'

CT'Hum... okay, my husband and aunt hate taking photographs, for this reason he must have taken these, I know that they were taken on Sunday, a lovely sunny day where we were seated, as was usual, on the terrace. There are a number of people there.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'There is the pool, there is the overhang, which is not really an overhand but a wall.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'A wall with plants from a distance; like a passageway on the pavement which runs until the building.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'This is similar to what one can see now, and the reception area with the roof.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And the people between I believe are many who work at the Ocean Club and who also live in the surrounding areas, also in the locale.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'That is it.

DC1485'If we select this photograph, I will show it to you, okay'

CT'This must be one of the better ones, If I may say so.

DC1485'This one shows you,

CT'This, this shows me looking down being curious, but this is not of the other apartment.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'But below there is, humm...the terrace of the other apartment.

DC1485'Oh, that one... hummm. Where the McCanns stayed.

CT'I did not know, but it must have been, they had a type of patio below, but the one I was looking at, humm... was where the small gate was located which is almost to that side.

DC1485'That is the gate where you saw the individual.

CT'Mmm, mmm

DC1485'Where you stood'

CT'Where I stood.

DC1485'I will (inaudible) see something. Image 50590 okay, that I what I will call it.

CT'Ah ah.

DC1485'Image 0590 is one of your pictures.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'And you are looking below.

CT'And I am looking below.

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'And tell me where is the gate, in realtion ot the rest.

CT'Well, the gate is slightly more towards the front, 69 centimetres towards the front.

DC1485'To your right.

CT'To my right.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Right below where the McCanns stayed there is a small patio.

CT'Yes.

CT'But I did not see if they had a gate themselves.

CT'Okay. And after there is a small apartment below that has a small terrace and was probably there I was snooping.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Mmmm.

DC1485'At what time of the day do you think this photograph was taken'

CT'Well, it was... it must have happened in the morning because it was taken on Sunday.

DC1485'It was taken on Sunday'

CT'Yes, because the sun was out, humm'around mid-day, I would say it was around noon.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Mmm

DC1485'This is good.

CT'This is all I remember.

DC1485'I will make copies of these photographs, later, after completing your statement.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'And I have this as your proof and evidence.

CT'You can have these because, humm... they are on CD, and if they can help'

DC1485'Right, okay.

CT'You can have them.

DC1485'I will see what I (inaudible) can do with them.

CT'yes, okay.

DC1485'Okay, I will get up for two minutes and ask my colleague if any fact has escaped me.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'Right.

CT'Yes, I will have some water.

DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.

DC MESSIAH returns to the interview room.

DC1485'Hello, I have returned. I apologise for the length of my absence (inaudible), my colleague was trying to get a better quality photograph copy, the one I showed him was very, very light, wasn't it'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Does this bring back memories'

CT'Good, the one I saw was on computer...

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And... hum, with the glasses... he did not wear sunglasses.

DC1485'No, but if you could imagine him without sunglasses, is it very difficult'

CT'Yes, hum... I know that I have had some difficulty with the ears as well, but... humm, I think so.

DC1485'This was made by another witness, who affirms having seen a man who corresponds to his description but...

CT'The one thing is that I saw him from an angle.

DC1485'From below.

CT'From below, his mouth was more 'hum' very delineated, it was not'in this one it appeared more'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'But, hum... the head looks good.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Humm, but the glasses and I do not know about the nose, it was more'mmm'but we all come from different places.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'He did not have this in his chin.

DC1485'No.

CT'And he had a long face.

DC1485'Longer than this one'

CT'Yes, although I saw him from above, I have (inaudible) because I very much like this photograph.

DC1485'Oh right.

CT'For this reason, I am very good at this. But not in measurements (inaudible)'facial recognition, hummm.

DC1485'Okay, but this one.

CT'Yes, the head, the cut of the hair, the hair line was very similar, mmm... but the individual made him on CD, humm.

DC1485'What did he do'

CT'He, well, he assigned a document to confirm that I was correct but it was all on computer and'humm'he took it back to Reading.

DC1485'He was from Reading'

CT'He worked for the Reading Police, so I assumed he was legitimate.

DC1485'Did he leave a card or another contact'

CT'Humm...

DC1485'Is the name recognisable'

CT'No, but it was all noted by the Police in Reading.

DC1485'Where did they go'

CT'They, they went to my office.

DC1485'They went to your office'

CT'Yes.

DC1485'How many of them were there'

CT'Only one, with a laptop.

DC1485'I am not suggesting that he, he'

CT'I was going to say that, I hope he was legitimate, this was a long time ago.

DC1485'Yes, I am not suggesting this, simply, I want you to help me find him.

CT'I, I do not remember his name, humm.

DC1485'You told me that he was young'

CT'Yes, a young person.

DC1485'He was in his youth'

CT'Well, a computer genious, but not one of those weird looking ones, you know'hum, very much younger'humm, he was around 25 or something.

Dc1485'Okay.

CT'Dark hair, hum'short, yes, I remember that he was very short, humm'and was only'

DC1485'You have a fantastic memory, did you know that'

CT' (laughs) Perhaps this has something to do with my past, because I was working, hummm'my other organisation was, hummm'called Reading because it was all organized by them.

DC1485'Good, I will ask you to contact us first, unless you have a preference'

CT'I can check in my agenda when I get home.

DC1485'And call me after or'

DC1485'I keep all my appointments and if there is anything, because when I was working, I was better organised compared to when I do nothing.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'Perhaps there is something about his name.

DC1485'Because he must have said his name and the visit and you may have made a note in your agenda.

CT'I would have noted it as I had to also book the room.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I remember this, yes.

DC1485'Okay. Some questions that were asked of me need clarification, first you told me everything that you saw when he was at the gate. In what direction he was looking when he exited; when he was preparing to leave; when he began walking through the gate and consequently, already outside the gate'

CT'Well, he was looking in the direction opposite to me.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Thus, he must have... I did not look, I only saw him leave via the gate, turn and here he did this stealthily, slowly, at opening the gate,. It was the manner in which he opened it. He did not look to where I was, nor did he see me.

Dc1485'Good.

CT'And... humm, I was more or less with my back turned towards him, and he used two hands to do this, which was strange, and after looked in that direction, to the left, and left as I turned away.

DC1485'Yes.

DC1485'How much time'how much time did he look to the left'

CT'It was for a bit, very intentional.

DC1485'Like he was stopping to look'

CT'Yes, intentially to check to see something, you know, and after looking from one side to the other before leaving; this is what called my attention.

DC1485'Did someone else see him'

CT'No because my husband and aunt were seated, but below the terrace wall, so that they did not see anything.

DC1485'Okay.

CT'I would say that has they not been intently conversing regarding this and that...

DC1485'You would not have stayed there and'

CT'I would have, I would have called their attention and asked them what they thought of it.

DC1485'Okay. From what I can tell, this is the end of the interview.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add, given that eleven months have passed when you first spoke of this'

CT'Not really, there is only the issue of what I have spoken about and which had to do with the apartment. I did not know that it was the apartment below ours and, humm'I did not know that they were staying in that apartment; I was focused on the gate. I had no idea.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Except in the Sunday papers, as we have seen.

DC1485' Had you seen anyone prior, anyone at all, leaving by that gate before'

CT'Hummm... no, not while we were visiting, no.

DC1485'And do you remember if it was occupied at that time'

CT'I cannot be sure, I do not know if anyone was there because it was very early in the season, and there were some guests staying in apartments above the ground floor.

DC1485'Yes.

DC1485'Was there anyone there, who perhaps put out clothing'

CT'Yes.

CT'There were some, but that small gate...it also gives access to the apartments above.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'For this reason, I do not know...

DC1485'Okay.

CT'As you know, I did not see anyone leave or enter.

DC1485'Do you know if your aunt knew of anyone staying as a guest, or mentioned that someone was staying there'

CT'She probably knew, but she does not talk much about this.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'So this'humm.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'She is very astute, you know.

DC1485'Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add'

CT'No.

DC1485'She was given the opportunity to clarify. Right, it is 11h10. This interview has ended/

Witness statement - Michelle Thompson

Dated:  1st May 2008

[Important note:  Michelle Thompson is a life long friend of Kate McCann/Healy and partner of Jon Corner.  Jon Corner, a professional in the world of media, is a close friend of the McCanns - he was actively and heavily involved with the family after the alleged disappearance of Madeleine, particularly during the summer of 2007.  Jon Corner was responsible for the production of the Madeleine McCann May 2010 appeal video, showing various inappropriate images of Madeleine - including the legendary 'make-up' image]

I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to the Leicestershire police. I was questioned related to my relationship with the McCanns and with the Healy family and also about my visit to Portugal during the summer of 2007.

I have known Kate since the first day of nursery school 36 years ago, when we lived in Anfield, in Liverpool. We maintained our friendship through adulthood. Kate met Gerry in University around 13 or 14 years ago and married 10 years ago. They have thee children, Madeleine, 5 years old, and the twins, Sean and Amelie, 3 years of age. My companion and I, Jon Corner, were Amelie's god-parents. Kate is the god-mother of my daughter Charlotte.

Before Madeleine's the disappearance last year, Jon and I saw Kate, Gerry and the family about five times per year. We would go to Leicester or they would come to Liverpool. This would normally happen around holidays, like birthdays, Christmas, etc.

On the morning of the 4th of May, 2007, Kate called our land line but we did not hear it as we were asleep and did not put the phone on the bed. She left a message and asked us to call her once we heard the message. Kate must have tried Jon?s mobile once as we stirred when it rang at about 03h20. Jon spoke briefly with Kate and then called her around 03h30. I knew that Kate and Gerry were on holidays in Portugal. Kate was very anguished and on the telephone and told me that she had checked on the children every half-hour. It was around 22h00, and when she went to check on the children she found that someone had entered the apartment and taken Madeleine from where she slept; that Madeleine had been abducted. The person must have entered, passed by the twins and taken her.

Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children's room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared. Kate urged me to call all the close family and to ask them to pray for Madeleine. My family is catholic and Kate knew this. Even though I am catholic, I have to admit that Kate has more faith than I. I did not speak to Gerry that night.

During the next 24 hours, we maintained contact through text messages but I spoke to her around 04H30 on the next day, Saturday, the 5th of May of 2007. Kate was still frustrated and anguished and felt that nobody was doing anything to help find Madeleine. She told me that the police had left in the morning and returned around 09H30 and that now only a few agents with sniffer dogs were in the locale. This was all the activity that I know of. I asked her if I could help her in Portugal and she responded in the affirmative. For this reason, with a common friend, Nick Gill, (whom Kate also contacted) and I planned to fly to Faro the next day. We left from Liverpool directly to Faro on Sunday morning.

We were greeted at the airport by representatives of Mark Warner who took us to the Ocean Club resort. We met Gerry and Kate half-way through this day. Kate looked terrible, exhausted and wasted. She lamented that Madeleine would be found in a ditch and that the next time she would see her would be in the mortuary; that a paedophile had taken her.

Sometime later, Gerry and Kate went to get the twins from the creche, trying to give them the most normal routine. During our stay, we helped them were we could in maintaining some normality for the twins. At the end of this week, Kate and Gerry spoke with a psychologist called Alan, contracted by Mark Warner. After this, both appeared calmer and more capable of analyzing the situation.

On Monday, Gerry became more confused regarding what to do and how to do it. Monday morning, Fiona Payne knocked on our door and told us of a search, organised by some residents and tourists. We were transported with about 10 other people in a mini bus. We spent the morning searching the terrain and fields of difficult access near the resort. I cannot recite precisely the locale.

There was no police involvement in this search. Around 12h00 I received a telephone from Kate asking if Nicky and I could take care of the twins while they attended a session with the media asking for help and had just returned to the resort. Between us both, we watched the twins that afternoon. That night, a group of local women and children, accompanied by the church's priest arrived at the apartment and prayed the rosary. It was at this time that Kate was given access to the church and Gerry was loaned a lap-top with access to the internet.

The next day, Tuesday, I left the resort and returned home as I have small children. Nicky stayed a few extra days. Since my return, we have maintained daily contact via text messages. At times, I call, but always when I answer the telephone she appeared profoundly anguished. During my stay, Gerry was truly disturbed but handled the situation better than Kate, especially after the conversation with Alan, the psychologist. This was how he dealt with the situation.

Kate and Gerry never put their children at risk and they adored Madeleine and the twins. Both love their children and Madeleine represented everything to Kate and in my opinion, they are both excellent parents and totally devoted to their children.

This testimony was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.

Witness statement - Jennifer Murat

Dated:  15th May 2007

She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.

--- She comes to the case as a witness.

--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth.

--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.

--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.

--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.

--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.

--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.

--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.

--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.

--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).

 --- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.

--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.

--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.

--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.

--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.

--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.

--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.

--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.

--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].

--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.

--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.

--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.

--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon.

--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.

--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.

--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.

--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.

--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years.

--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness' other children.

--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.

--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.

--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.

--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.

--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.

--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.

--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.

--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.

--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.

--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.

--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.

--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.

--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.

--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.

--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.

--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert's project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.

--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).

--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.

---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.

--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.
- End -

Witness statement - Arguido Robert Murat

14th May 2007


As for his criminal background he said:

--- He has never been before a court, nor been arrested.

Asked if he wanted to respond to the facts that are imputed against him, he responded:

--- Affirmatively.

--- He comes to the case in order to clarify the facts with which he is charged, dispensing with the presence of a lawyer and an interpreter as he understands perfectly the Portuguese language in its oral and written form. He was already present in the procedural activities as an interpreter.

--- Born in London, England, about 33 years ago. His parents have lived in Portugal, which his mother still does (Casa Liliana) given that his father died when he was twelve years old. He came to Portugal when he was two weeks old, returning to the United Kingdom in 1989, returning to Portugal in 2005, where he has been living in Praia da Luz, Lagos. He has also lived in Lagos and in Almádena.

--- In England he lived in various localities, Norfolk, Devon - Sidford and Norwich.

--- He has two siblings, one a male who is 38 years old and a female who is 35/36 years old, [both of whom] have also lived in Portugal with the deponent. However the respondent returned to the United Kingdom and his siblings also eventually returned to their country of birth, where they currently live. He has four nephews, two couples, in age from four to sixteen years. He has a healthy family environment, of good relations and frequent contacts.

--- On the educational background, said he did not know whether he began in Portugal or the UK. He attended primary school in Espiche, later the International School of Porches and soon after the Secondary School in Lagos, which he left by the seventh year.

--- He doe not have technical and professional courses [qualifications], but attended an accountancy course in the UK.

--- After the death of his father, he left the school, that being the main reason, and then often consumed some drugs and alcohol. Five to six years later, his Mother became involved with another person, which disagreeing, took him back to Portugal [NOTE *], in conjunction with a state of passion [love], for a British girl.

--- In the United Kingdom has pursued several activities from canvasser of customers for window sales, factory worker in the meat business and seller of cars. In the south of England worked as an assistant to geriatrics, search and rescue of shipwrecks, before the meat factory and trade in automobiles. Then he came to Portugal where, always, he worked in real estate.

--- As for his wife, Dxxx MURAT, from whom he is in the process of divorce, he met her when he was 19 years old, in the south of the United Kingdom, resulting from that relationship a daughter born in 2002. Besides his wife he never had many lasting relationships, only fleeting situations. He is separated since 2005, which corresponds to his return to Portugal, together with her. After the separation his wife returned to England, he believes in August, with their daughter, Sxxxx MURAT. He only returned to see his daughter when he went to the United Kingdom in October and November of that same year. In May, June of 2006, he went back to the United Kingdom to see his daughter, which is repeated once again in November, though he says that in this time gap he made another visit, but cannot be sure. Again he made a further visit in December, in time for Christmas. Earlier this year he visited in January, returning to Portugal on May 01, the public holiday. When he goes to the United Kingdom he stays in the residence of his Grandmother or sister.

--- Generally, his movement to Portugal was to hold several meetings in order to form the company, MICHAELA was also involved in this activity, which was always linked to real estate. He states that she was in the UK with the respondent, accompanied by her daughter on three occasions.

--- His Mother, receives a pension from Portugal and England, a total of €700, having means [assets] through inheritance and sale of a property.

--- Currently his closest female friend is MICHAELA WALCZUCH, with whom he worked in the company "Remax" in April 2005, beginning the close friendship a few months later. With her he is trying to open a company [firm] in the real estate business, which will be named ROMIGEN, already owning a website. It is with her that he passes his leisure time, usually walking. Speaking about the Internet, he uses this tool to contact Michaela, and for visiting sites of a sexual nature, in particular - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - to which he does not access daily.

--- He has several e-mail addresses, namely:
[6 e-mail addresses edited out]

--- With respect to Michaela, she has e-mail addresses:
[3 e-mail addresses edited out]

--- As regards his daily life, he said he made several meetings with business partners, or future partners, it being that these meetings are conducted at restaurants or at the residence of Michaela, located at Rua Adelina ... Lagos.

--- During the previous week, 09 May, he intended to return to the United Kingdom, but has not done so due to the disappearance of the child, since he was already helping the authorities. He changed the flight to Saturday 12th of his own accord, and for the same reason, at the request of Police, he said, once again he changed the journey [for his return to England] to the 19th. The first change in the trip cost the respondent 41 pounds.

The Second amendment had no cost, as he explained the situation to the operator "Flybe." The trip to the UK was for the restoration of his house, and a medical consultation scheduled for the 14th.

--- Asked, he uses his mother's cars, VW Transporter, whose number plate is he does not know, and "Skoda Fabia", does not know the registration, which is in the repair shop "Autojoteca", next to Torre, Lagos. Currently and given that his mother uses the VW at the stand that she has set up in Luz, he rented a Hyundai Getz, at the cost to his Mother.

--- Relating to the events under investigation, he said he arrived on May 01 at 09:30 at the airport in Faro, coming from the city of Exeter, which has an airport. His address, that is the home of his grandmother that he is restoring, is at Sidmouth in Devon. His sister lives in two different locations, both in Exeter.

--- At the airport he was met by his mother, in the VW that the respondent drove. He went to a petrol station at the airport exit, that had closed the toilets. He didn't eat anything or fill up the car. He then drove to the A22, where he stopped at the first service station on the way, M24. He drank a "galao" [a typical breakfast drink comprising 50% coffee and 50% hot milk] as did his mother. He ate a meat pie and his mother a "folhado misto" [a cheese and ham croissant]. They resumed the journey, having stopped at another M24 station [NOTE: "M24" is the name of the 24 hour convenience shops at many GALP service stations], where they drank coffee. Soon after they went directly to Casa Liliana in Luz, where he arrived at 11:30-12:00. Soon after and without unpacking his suitcase or entering his home, he went in the VW to see Michaela at her house in Lagos, about 12:00-12:30, where he took some gifts for both mother and daughter. He remained in her house, he thinks, until 15:00-15:30, having offered the gifts and talked with the entire family, including the father Luis Antonio, in addition to drinking tea. He does not remember having eaten lunch, or if someone else had lunch. He said goodbye to those present, left the apartment and drove himself home, where he arrived at 16:00. He does not remember having gone to another place, before arriving at his residence. Once at home, he does not know if he went out again.

--- The following day (02/05), he got up around 09:00 and left home by 10:00-10:30. He went to Lagos in the VW, to the home of Michaela, where he arrived at 10.40 am. He entered her house, where she was alone. He remained there for a short time talking. They left there and went in the VW to the centre of Lagos. He parked in one of the streets and went to the residence of FRANCISCO PAGARETE, who was not there, but his girlfriend Sonia was there. Next he went to meet his future real estate partners in their shop, called "Putos and Graúdos", located in Lagos, not knowing the street, whose line of business is the sale of clothing and is owned by JORGE S. He does not know the time. After the meeting in the store they went to a cafe but does not know the name, now four people - the respondent, Michaela, Jorge S. and his son Jason. Soon after went to another cafe located in Lagos Marina, less noisy, where they talked about business. He consumed a "galao" drink, but does not know if the others did. The bill was paid by MICHAELA in the first cafe he thinks, and he has no idea who paid in the second. In that cafe they spent some time until 13:50-14:00.

--- After the Marina they walked back to the VW and then had lunch in the restaurant "Bem Bom" in Lagos, this time only with Michaela, where he arrived a little after 14:00. He ate roast meat. Lunch ended by 15:15-15:20, they went to the school of Cxxxxxxx (daughter of Michaela, who is 8 years of age) in order to collect her, they arrived five minutes later. They went again to the home of PAGARETE, who this time was at home. They were talking next to the VW, to Michaela about the divorce and the respondent about buildings [properties]. He does not remember the time that he left from there. He returned to MICHAELA's house in Lagos, with her and her daughter. He entered the apartment. He does not know what they did or talked about. He remained in the apartment, with the mother and daughter for a long time, LUIS having arrived by 21:00 or shortly after, when they were having dinner of pork or turkey. He left Michaela's home about 22:30-23:00, got the VW and went to his house in Luz, parking the vehicle in front of house. He spoke with his mother who was awake. He is certain that he remained at home until the next morning. Turned on the computer and played cards, going to sleep at 01:00-01:30.

--- On 03 awakened at 08:00-09:00, took a bath, dressed and drank some tea. Left home at 10:00, got the VW and presumes having gone to Lagos to see Michaela. He does not know where he parked the VW. He went up to the apartment, rang the bell, Michaela opened the door. Only Michaela was at home. They talked about the website for their real estate project in the lounge and the kitchen for a long time. The two left the apartment around 12:00 in the VW. They took the road towards Portimao and before Odiáxere, they went round the access roundabout to the A22, direction Portimao - Lagos. Ten to fifteen minutes after leaving the apartment, they came the petrol pumps of the Galp-M24, on the A22, where they had lunch, he does not remember what and for less than an hour. They left the pump station and returned to the apartment, where they were once again talking about various things. They collected Cxxxxxxx from school in the VW at 15.30 and the three met with Jorge Sxxxx and his son, he does not know where, but believes it was at the Lagos Marina. There they went into a café whose name he can't recall, next to a play area for children, where Cxxxxxxx played. They spoke about "Romigen" and the meeting finished late, perhaps by 18:00-19:00. Everybody left together, went to the VW which was parked in the car park at the rear of the Marina, they gave a ride to Jorge S. and his son to the bus station, next to the CTT in the city centre Lagos. Then he went to the home of MICHAELA, close to 19.00. He said farewell to them in the VW and headed for his residence, where he arrived between 19.15 and 19.30. He parked the VW in front of the house and entered. He does not know if his mother was at home, but thinks so because it was late for her to walk the dogs, as they usually leave at 17:00 and return at 19.00. After entering, he may have taken some tea and turned on the TV or it was already on. He may also have read a newspaper. He talked with the mother, who if she was not there had arrived shortly afterwards, about Romigen. He ate a sandwich of cheese and ham sitting in the kitchen with his mother, until 22:00 or 23:00. Contrary to what he said originally, he was not with MICHAELA when she went to a Jehovah witnesses' meeting between 20:00 and 22:00, which is why he didn't phone her, because she turns her phone off. He does not know if he called her after 22:00, but accepts that possibility. He does not remember having used the computer. He was home with his mother, when at 22:30 or a little later, he heard a siren of an ambulance or police. He commented on that with his mother, however, did not leave the house to investigate. He did not leave again until the morning, having gone to bed around midnight.

--- On Friday, 04/05, woke around 09:00, took a bath, went to the kitchen to his mother, the latter told him that something terrible had happened, because a child had disappeared in Praia da Luz, according to 'Sky News' that she had been watching. At once the respondent and his Mother went to look in the garden, walled with a fence of 1m in height, checking if the child had managed to enter, which in a way was almost impossible without aid. In one corner of the garden is a greenhouse, which was searched, and then they saw an English passer-by on the outside, he does not know the identity. When asked about this, he was told that the child had disappeared. Accompanied by that person, he went to the place of the disappearance, and was introduced to the parents of the child, as he spoke the two languages, Portuguese and English. Assumes that the passer-by would be staying at the Luz Ocean Club, in the block opposite the home of the respondent. This individual already knew the parents of MADELEINE, or met them at the time. He started a conversation with the family of the child, offering to help. Together with an officer of the GNR and an employee of the resort with several keys, entered several apartments, opened with the keys or by the tenants in order to locate the child. Some of the apartments were closed and there were no keys, these sites were flagged by the GNR man.

--- At that time he met John Hill, manager of MARK WARNER, who supplied them with more keys to other apartments.

--- Prior to this occasion, he did not know the interior of the "Ocean Club", only entering the resort after the disappearance.

--- In the meantime the tracker dogs arrived that undertook a more rigorous form of search.

--- Then, having told several of the present people, including officers of the GNR, that he spoke two languages, he was taken to some places to make verbal translations for people who wanted to testify, remaining in that role during the afternoon. On the evening of that day by 19:00-19:30 went to see Michaela, returning to Luz about 23:00-23:30.

--- On Saturday he continued the verbal translations next to the GNR mobile police station, making various contacts with the press, and that night went again to Lagos.

--- When asked he said the relationship with the press was somewhat troubled.

--- He clarifies therefore, that on the Sunday he spoke to the wife of Batista, owner of the supermarket, not knowing her name, asking her to leave the establishment open in order to supply the people who were there. The supermarket did not stay open due to lack of members of staff, however they gave several litres of water that were placed at the entrance of Block 5. He also asked John Hill that electricity would be supplied to the mobile GNR police station.

--- At some point on Monday, a well-known acquaintance since the age of twelve years, named GAYNOR Exxxxxx, told him that he was the main suspect among the journalists. Subsequently he learned that she was working for "Sky", with a journalist, and she was told that they were comparing with a case of homicide that occurred in the United Kingdom, in which two girls had been killed and that the perpetrators of the crime were close to the place of the investigation. From then on he refused to speak with journalists and alerted the the Police to this. That refusal [of his] was to not provide his full name, nor to allow the taking of a photograph.

--- He said he had pornography on the computer. He has pictures with women over 18 years. He has no photographs of men. Just naked women, not sexually explicit, not remembering if they were using phallic objects. He has no record of violent sex, or sadomasochism or submission. He does not have images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals. He does not use an encrypted external server or encrypted content.

--- Asked he said he has nothing to do with the disappearance of the child, nor anything about this case.

--- Asked he clarified that never has anyone accessed, without his authorization, his computer systems, a total of three, one an ACER (which has the Vista operating system installed), another an ASUS brand and his own an LG, these two systems having the XP operating system installed. That the computer systems were interconnected and shared the access to the INTERNET through an ADSL MODEM-ROUTER, by mere chance, by choice of his mother. That the contract for access to the INTERNET was signed by his mother with the company supplying INTERNET services, from Portugal TELECOM, named "SAPO". Asked he said he does not see himself as an expert in computing and communications but these are areas that are not unknown to him, given that he had his first computer some ten years ago.

--- That the current ADSL Modem-Router equipment is, as far as he recalls, an SMC brand and it makes it possible to operate a network of computers, via "network-without-wires." [WiFi; wireless networking]. Asked, he responded that the computer systems he had in his house, have clocks, date and time, set to the official time; that he does not know [how] to explain why the clock of the equipment that permitted him to connect to the INTERNET, the SMC ADSL modem-router, was unsynchronized. That this is due to the fact of it having been to an outside company, "125 computers", with its main office or place of business in the town of Mexilhoeira-Grande. That regarding the remaining computers it was the declarer who had configured them. That on the computer systems in question were installed normal programs.

--- Asked about what he considers to be normal programs, he said they would be the operating system and work tools typical of the Microsoft family, such as word processing, spreadsheet, the Internet browser (Internet Explorer) or anti-virus programs. That his commercial activity is in the area of real estate, promoting and making it pay through advertising homes for sale on the INTERNET and that the programs installed in the computers were in accordance with [needed for] his commercial activity. Asked about if, unlike the normal programs that he described, he had kept or had had installed on his systems [any] abnormal or peculiar [strange] programs, he replied that he only has a program called "CCCleaner" for the improvement of the performance of the system, not retaining programs that erase traces of child pornography. That that program "CCCleaner" was installed by his son three years ago, which statement [for the record] the respondent corrects and declares that his son informed him of the existence of the "CCCleaner" program years before, it having been the declarer who installed it on the XP systems. That he does not know the full potential of the "CCCleaner" program, particularly those that are said in this deposition by the declarer: erasing the history of navigation in INTERNET, of temporary files, exchange of files, recently used documents, register [record] of applications (registry), the various registry files (log's), the "garbage can" or "recycle bin"; asked about the effects of deleting the program, said he was not an expert on the subject and does not know the program well. Asked how he does not know well the effects of the program, if he has known it for more than three years, he said that he is not expert.

--- Asked if he uses cryptography on his computers, he said categorically not. Asked if he would use strong encryption in the Internet browser, [he said] he does not use encrypted communications on the Internet and in his computer system. That he does not use nor has encrypted data in his systems, nor used enciphering to mask, hide or to prevent access to data contained in his systems. Asked if he uses encryption or enciphering in e-mail communications, he declared: that he did not know what it is or how to use encryption.

--- Asked about how he could justify the presence of several encrypted or enciphered files, of credentials to access programs, in his systems, seeing he is an experienced user with more than ten years in the use of personal computers and no-one else had access to his network without authorization, he said: "I would not know how to justify that."

--- Asked how he explains the contradiction of maintaining a contradiction between the maintenance of his network unprotected or "open" and his experience that must be telling him to act to the contrary in respect of the security of his network, he said "not to have thought of that."

No more was said.

Witness Statement - Yvonne Martin

Dated:  13th June 2007

[Important note:  Ms Martin, Social Services and Child Protection worker was accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese.]


She says that she has lived in Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal andfor the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works.

During the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the witness was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at about 07H00 she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on May 03, 2007.

As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple, she arrived there at about 09H30.

She clarifies that she did not leave immediately for Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home but left at around 09H00.

At first, she could not locate the exact site where the family was staying on holiday. Upon seeing a police patrol car which passed close by her, she asked the police if they could show her the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared and where the parents were staying.

At the scene, she found a group of three people, two males and one female.

She went over to the group and identified herself.  Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple.

The couple was visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely.

The third person never identified himself, upon the witness's insistence the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family.

She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.

Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them every hour.

As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied yes.

She clarifies that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and "get" his child.

After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.

At this moment, the witness notices that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials issued by the British government to calm them down.

Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.

At this moment, the witness wishes to clarify that, in England, anyone who works with children, whether a doctor, police officer or social worker, has to have a proper credential certified by the police and that this was one of the documents she showed to the McCanns.

Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.

The witness then asked whether anyone from the Medical Centre had been with Kate as she was very agitated and needed some support, she was told they hadn't.

At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning.

Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The witness alerted the couple to the type of statements they should give and that it would be better for them to keep silent.

At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time.

After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else.

The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal.

As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.

She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt.

When asked whether that it would be possible to identify him from a photograph, the witness replied yes.

She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied no but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.

No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

Witness Statement - Yvonne Martin 

Dated:  14th November 2007

[Important note:  As Ms Martin does not speak Portuguese she was accompanied by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceição Silva who translated all questions and answers into English.]


The witness has given a previous statement to this police force regarding the facts in question. This took place on 13-06-2007 and led to the inquiry of the statement that was taken. The witness confirms the complete integrity of that statement, everything was fully reproduced for this file. The witness was also shown attached page showing the places of work where she carried out her professional activities as Social Services Manager for Child Protection, having also confirmed that these were the cities where she carried out her professional activities.

She states that in the course of her contact with Madeleine's parents, described in detail in her previous statements, Kate told her that the child had been taken by a couple. During the meeting they had, the details of which are contained in her previous statement, she did not have the opportunity to ask in depth about this question nor about any other.

With regards to the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met them, and who was later identified as David Payne, she reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual intervened in a situation related to a professional activity of the witness. She clarifies that neither on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, can she remember concretely the place or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne, but that she continues to think that the same individual is familiar to her but cannot state the particular situation.

She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.


She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

Witness Statement Nuno Manuel Lourenco De Jesus - 5th May 2007

That he comes to the process as a witness and states:

He is of Portuguese nationality but immigrated to Germany 14 years ago. He married a German citizen in Denmark. He has two children, whose names are L*******., almost three years old and a girl whose name is L*****, who is almost four years old.

He was on holiday in Portugal from the 22nd of April until the 13th of the current month. He stayed with his mother who lives in Sagres, and was accompanied by his two children and his wife B******, who does not speak Portuguese.

On the 29th of the past month, after he had returned his rental car, he walked (since it was close by) to Mareta beach in Sagres. He arrived there around 15H00. He and his family went to the play area. Between 16H00 and 17H00, he cannot be more precise, he noticed a male individual holding a small silver-coloured camera who, in a disguised fashion, was taking pictures of his children. He speaks of 'disguised fashion' as the individual, instead of holding the camera to his face, was taking pictures from the abdominal area of his body. The witness overheard the 'clicking' noise when pictures were taken.

After having taken three or four pictures of his children, he verified that that the individual took more pictures of two male children, nine and five years of age. These were children of a couple who were at the witness's side and who were playing with a ball. He knows of them as they live in Sagres, a short distance from his mother. He does not know their names.

For this reason, he supposes that his children were photographed to be abducted or to be used for illicit reasons. He began looking at the individual indignantly and aggressively and the same individual taking the pictures then left the area. But even before this, the individual took more pictures of the four children in a disguised fashion, and of others with the camera to his face. This individual also got on his knees on the sand to take additional pictures.

After leaving the area, the witness did not see the individual and did not again think about the incident.
At around 18H00/18H30, as it got a bit colder, they left the beach and headed toward the esplanade to buy sweets at a pastry shop called 'Marreiros', about 400 metres from the beach, in Sagres. As he and his family were sitting (the witness was having a coffee), he saw the same individual passing the pastry shop and heading toward the outer perimeter of the esplanade. He noticed that the individual constantly looked at the children and entered the shop, but left immediately after. At this moment, his daughter, began racing around the tables as they were ready to leave.

Seeing this, the individual began to walk rapidly toward the witnesses daughter crossing the witnesses family as they were departing. Luckily or by chance, the witness's daughter stopped next to the witness as it appeared the individual tried to stop them from leaving, and once again entered the pastry shop and again left without buying anything. This same individual left toward the back of a kiosk which exists in the area. Shaken by this situation, and without the least doubt that the individuals intention was to abduct this daughter, he got out his mobile and began taking various pictures of the individual, from the front, and in such a way that the individual would clearly see that the witness was taking pictures. This did not work however, as the witness had his finger on the lens of the mobile camera. Even though the individual had left the kiosk area, he noticed that the individual had now situated himself next to the wheel of a grey- coloured, recent model Renault Clio. The witness noted the registration plate on a piece of paper which he eventually discarded, as will be explained later in this statement. This individual was accompanied by a woman, sitting in the passenger seat. The witness managed to take a picture of the vehicle which he handed over to the police, and which is now exhibited. The picture is recorded as having been taken at 18H08 on 29/04/2007.

After taking the picture of the vehicle, with the date/time stamp recorded by the mobile phone, a few minutes later the couple in question left in the direction of the Sagres Fortaleza. Thinking that the recorded license plate would no longer be of any use, the witness threw paper in the rubbish or on the ground.

Yesterday, the 4th, he went to a rental car agency. The name of the agency was TURINFO, and is located in Sagres. It was around 13H00. The employee present told them to return at 13H30, at which time the manager would arrive. He proceeded to a bar called 'Rasa dos Ventos' where he ordered a coffee to pass the time. At a later point, looking outward, he saw the same individual, dressed in exactly the same fashion, but without a hat. This same individual left and he did not see him again, nor did he see his car. It appeared that the individual was alone and on foot.
Upon returning home, he recounted the story to his wife who told him to go to the police as they had already heard about the disappearance of Madeleine. The witnesses daughter bears a striking resemblance to Madeleines images.

That very morning, the witness contacted the police and told them what had happened.

Of the vehicle registration plate, he only remembered the partial plate numbers AV and 67.

In so far as the suspect is concerned, he describes him as masculine, Caucasian with Latin colouring, curly dark brown hair that ran to his neck and in a pony tail. He was between 35/40 years of age, of medium complexion, and around 170 to 175 cm in height. He did not have any particular marks or signals and did not wear rings or other jewellery. He wore a cream coloured beach hat. He also wore dark glasses.

He wore cloth trousers and a coat/jacket of the same material which was cream coloured. Almost the same colour to the hat he had worn previously. His shoes were dark brown: the type that need to be shined or polished.
As regards the woman with the individual, as he saw her seated in the vehicle, he can only state that she had short hair which appeared to be white in colour and very shiny. In the sitting position, her head was below the car head rest. She appeared to be skinny and Caucasian. She did not use glasses. He can say no more as she was difficult to see.

When questioned, the witness states that he could recognise the individual in person and from a photograph or sketch .
At this moment, the interview is interrupted to show the witness photographs of individuals with similar physical characteristics.
These were returned to the investigators with negative result, as confirmed in the appendix.

There are no additional elements to offer the investigation.
Nothing more was said, reads , ratifies, signs.

Witness Statement Najoua Chekaya - 9th May 2007

Occupation: Aerobic Instructor

She comes to the process as a witness.

She worked as an aerobics instructor next to the Millenium Restaurant swimming pool, close to the Tapas restaurant in P Da L.

As she does not speak Portuguese, she is assisted by the interpreter, Robert Murat.

Stated that she arrived in Portugal on 21st March 2007 for the first time, having been recruited from England by the Mark Warner company.

She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.

She began her working day at about 08.15 near to the Millenium restaurant until 08.45, then at 09.30 she walked to Lagos from where she returned at about 11.30 and at about 11.45 went for lunch at the Tapas restaurant.

In the afternoon she began work at 15.20 next to the Millenium until 16.15 and then returned to the Tapas restaurant until 17.15 and then to the Millenium restaurant from 17.30 to 18.00. She finished at about 18.15 and returned to the Tapas Bar for dinner and at 21.00 did a kind of quiz with the guests who were having dinner in the restaurant.

She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them for a drink.

She was at their table for about fifteen to twenty minutes and it was there that she met Madeleine's father, who directly invited her to the table, however, she does not know whether Madeleines mother was also there.

When questioned, she said that they talked of banalities and she did not notice any aspect or behaviour that was out of the ordinary.

When questioned, she said that during the time that she was there Madeleines father did not leave the table, neither did any of the other guests, however, during this time one of the chairs was always empty, that of someone who had had dinner and left, not managing to indicate any identifying element about this person.

When questioned, she said she was at the table from about 21.30 to 21.50.

She does not remember anyone from outside the resort having made any questions about the functioning of the Ocean Club, or about any particular service.
When questioned, she said that she had only seen Madeleine once or twice and had merely said hello to her, no more than that.

When questioned, she said that she had never seen anyone suspicious in the vicinity of the Ocean Club.

She knows nothing more about the subject.

Reads, ratifies, signs.

Witness Statement Najoua Chekaya - 20th June 2007

To the matter at hand she said:

--- She appears as a witness. Being a British national she does not not know the Portuguese
language in oral or written form, there being present, therefore, an interpreter Sra. Lidia N., PJ
employee/officer from DRPD/ADT.

--- In accordance with the statements made by her in this case, on 9 May 2007, she confirms it
having been on the Tuesday, 1 May 2007, that she was invited to the table of the group of which
the McCann couple were part, by Gerry himself.

--- That she recalls there being an empty place [seat] at the table, not being certain if it had been
Madeleine's mother's place given that she is not sure if they had met each other there at that time.

--- The photographs of the group of the McCann's friends having been shown to her, the deponent
declares that from those photos seen she has some reservations about David Payne [in that] while
she thinks he was also there, she had not noted his presence.

--- The question asked she declares not being certain who was missing from the group.
Nothing more said. Read, ratifies and will sign, together with the interpreter who assisted her.

Witness Statement Jennifer Murat - 15th May 2007

She confirms being the mother of arguido Robert Murat, and is willing to make this statement.

--- She comes to the case as a witness.

--- The deponent is the mother of the arguido ROBERT MURAT and therefore was advised of the conditions of Art 134 and following of the CPP, she wished to make a statement to better clarify the facts and thus contribute to the discovery of the truth
.
--- The deponent is English, having settled in Portugal for 40 years and therefore understands, reads and speaks Portuguese without difficulty.

--- Concerning the events, the deponent has to clarify that she knew [found out] about the disappearance of the English child called Madeleine on 4 May, Friday, that is the day following it happened.

--- She says further that it was her daughter, Samantha, residing in England in the city of Exeter, who telephoned her to give her the news because by the morning our news was already running in the press of that country.

--- She states that her daughter's phone number is 00441932****38 and her mobile is 0044781*****42.

--- Relative to her life in Portugal, she states that she came to live in this country in 1968/69.

--- She had contact with the Algarve in 1959/60 by virtue of her late husband having bought a small house in Burgau.

--- It was only later they decided to settle in Portugal the husband, John Murat, having started a property business.

--- Thus they maintained themselves during the time until 25 April 1974 which began a big crisis in the property business obliging her to start work in the Lagos Hospital, as a nurse (her original profession).

--- She is mother to three children, Richard (28), Samantha (36) and Robert born on 20 November 1973.

--- Robert, the same as the other children, was born in England, in London.

--- About one month old he came to Portugal to live with the family in Atalaia in Lagos.

--- The son Robert started his schooling in the Barlavento School (English school) where he did his primary education. Later he was enrolled in the International School where he continued to study for a further two years. Later on he enrolled in a public school in Lagos where he studied until he was 16 years old at which time he travelled to England to be with his maternal grandmother.

--- There he started to work in a firm that sold double-glazing. He worked also as a car salesman for 'Nissan'.

--- He was in England for more than 10 years, always in Norfolk. Furthermore it was in that city that he met the woman whom he later married.
--- In those 10 years he was in England, Robert came to Portugal several times, perhaps three time a year, roughly.

--- Asked, she says the is not certain on which date Robert was married but she knows that his wife in English and 10/12 years older than him and she knows only that her name is Dawn.

--- From this marriage came a daughter, Sophie or Sofia (she is not certain), who was currently four years old and who was born in October 2002, living with her mother in Norfolk [full address given].

--- Robert's wife already had a son, David, from a first marriage who was over 20 years old and who also went by the name Murat while his mother and Robert were married.

--- The marriage ended in 2003 though the deponent does not know if the divorce was ever finalised. She knows, moreover, that her son Robert maintains a good relationship with his ex-wife, with his daughter and with David.

--- [When] Robert travels to England he always stays in a house inherited by the deponent, which is being 'renovated' and which is in Sidmouth, Devon. Robert is dealing with that situation and she knows that when he is there his daughter will be found with him.

--- It is a semi-detached house, vacant since 2003 ((the date of death of the maternal grandmother), and is situated exactly at [address given], Sidmouth, Devon

--- Returning to the family history in Portugal, more or less in 1981, the witness and rest of the family, including the three children, left Atalaia and went to Almadena, more specifically to a property called Eiras Velhas. It was a property of just over two hectares, which included several houses in ruins. These were rebuilt and the property served as the family address until 2002, when it was sold.

--- During the almost 20 years that the witness lived in that property in Almadena, they used the house for rural tourism which consisted of renting rooms to tourists. She notes that that business was always legal, having a license for it.

--- Robert lived with the family for several years in that house and later, after opting to go to England, he was always accommodated in the family home when when he returned to Portugal.

--- In 2001, the witness sold the property in Almadena and bought the house where she lives now. It is 'Casa Liliana'.

--- Initially she came to live in "Casa Liliana" accompanied by a friend (they had a companion relationship after being widowed), who currently resides in France. Later came the mother of the witness who lived there until her death in 2003 at the age of 93 years
.
--- The companion of the witness, currently in France, never had a close relationship with Robert nor with the witness' other children.

--- Still in 2003, Robert came to Portugal with his wife DAWN and daughter, who was a baby, and stayed for about two months. At that time they had the idea to settle here. However, his wife did not adapt because of the language and the fact of being away from family and friends. So, she finally left Robert and returned to England with her daughter.

--- Robert began to work in the business of real estate having been initially with "Remax" then with "Portuguese Homes," having returned later to "Remax". The failure of the employers to pay, or the difficulty in receiving his rightful commissions, led Robert to start a project, a property business through the Internet, teaming up with a friend called M1CHAELA.

--- The witness knows Michaela, knows she has a daughter who she knows only as "Titinha", who is about 8 or 9 years old, is a Portuguese national, and lives in Lagos. She knows that Michaela is still married to an individual named Louis and she is a Jehovah's Witness.

--- Asked, the deponent refers that she does not know if her son Robert maintains a relationship with Michaela it being certain that she never slept in her house.

--- Asked, she clarifies that she never knew of any loving relationship of her son beyond that with his wife Dawn. She asked her son never to bring anyone hone to 'sleep'. That is not to say that her son had had no relationships.

--- About the son Robert, she knows only of a health problem that resulted in the blindness in the right eye.

--- Maybe when he was about 9 years old, the witness noticed that he had a small disorder in his vision having taken him to several specialists. He was diagnosed with dislocation of a retina, of traumatic origin, that was not corrected after being operated on. It left the right eye unusable.

--- She also knows that he has an hereditary thyroid problem.

--- She does not know of any other physical, psychiatric or dysfunction problem.

--- Asked, the deponent says that she has the idea that her son had been hospitalised only once, specifically for the problem with his sight.

--- That said, when he was about ten years old, Robert had a small injury to his knee, of unknown origin, having led to surgery in the United Kingdom.

--- She does not know if that physical problem led to Robert being admitted.

--- The question asked, she says that to her knowledge, Robert takes only one medication on a regular (daily) basis, a drug called 'Letter" or "Levothyroxine", specifically for the thyroid problem which, as already said, is hereditary.

--- Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.

--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew.

--- Still relating to the facts which occurred on the evening of 03 May 2007, the deponent states that on that night she was at home with her son Robert. They followed their normal routine: About 19h50 she went to the "Batista" supermarket to buy bread. Then she went back to the house where she arrived more or less at the same time as Robert. Later they sat in the kitchen where they were talking for some time, having also eaten. She recalls that they were talking until close to midnight about Robert's project, related to the property and called 'Romigen.Com". Finally they went to their bedrooms to pass the night.

--- Asked, she explains that while they were talking in the kitchen, she is not able to say when, she recalls having heard a siren ringing at least once. Although not usual, she also did not "connect" because it could possibly have been an ambulance. (She recalls that sometimes, when the wind blows in a certain direction, it is possible to hear in the house sirens of police cars or ambulances that pass on the EN125).

--- Questioned, she says that during that night she also heard no noise or strange movements of people and also no one knocked on the door to ask or to request help to find the missing girl.

---Asked, she assures that her son Robert did not leave the house that night. Furthermore, she says that he usually gets up first. On that day she does not remember if that was what happened.

--- Asked, she explains that Robert travelled to England on March 20 and returned on May 01, 2007, at 09h40, she herself having gone to the airport in Faro to collect him.

- End -

SERGEY MALINKA - WITNESS STATEMENT


16th May 2007

On the matter of the file he said:

--- He comes to the file as a witness.

--- Although of Russian nationality he fully understands the Portuguese language in its oral and written forms. He has been in Portugal for nearly seven years.

--- He lives with his parents. He has a Portuguese girlfriend.

--- Asked, he said he knows ROBERT MURAT since the summer of last year, he thinks. He came to know him through his neighbour R** A*****, who introduced the witness to ROBERT, claiming that he was a good designer of pages and websites. When speaking with ROBERT, he [RM] explained the type of page that he wanted, and the witness performed the work. It was a page of real estate for sale on the Internet, without resorting to a property firm, whose name was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] After completing the draft he returned to him the copyright, as well as the username and password of the administrator. He recalls that the username was a 1 and the password 123, which were altered by ROBERT. After the delivery of the work, he had three weeks to make alterations, as a page of this size needs few changes after entry onto the net. He knows that this enterprise (Romigen) belonged to ROBERT and to a woman of the name MICHAELA, who hardly interfered, but was always present at meetings.

--- Other than this web site, he did not carry out any other work for ROBERT or for MICHAELA.

--- The meetings to which he refers were carried out in the bedroom in Robert's home at Casa Liliana and in the "Baptista" supermarket, situated in Praia da Luz.

--- He confirms that four years ago, he was at the home of ROBERT at the request of his mother, JANE MURAT (sic), to format her computer, so that the operating system would work faster, and to install an anti-virus. He did not know ROBERT at that time, nor did he know that JANE (sic) was his mother. That this contact was established by the mother through the firm where the witness worked called "125 computers", situated on the EN 125, Mexilhoeira Grande. As his employer failed to pay his salary, he left the firm around three years ago.

--- He has now formed a company called "Sergey Malinka", which is not yet on the Internet, for monetary reasons, since its introduction has high costs.

--- He had solely professional contacts with ROBERT, although RM had invited him to form a joint business, which was refused by the witness.

--- The first contact with ROBERT, as already said, was in last summer, to create the web page, and this occurred near the Church of the Light [the church in PdL], where there was only ROBERT and the witness, he believes at l0H00/11H00. He now alleges that RUI was not present personally, he only gave Robert's phone number to SM. The creation of the Internet page took about three weeks to a month. ROBERT paid him '3000 in total, in two equal installments. The first part of the payment was at the beginning of the work and the second when completed.

--- The second time they met was two or three days later, not knowing where this occurred but thinks it was in the "Baptista" supermarket. He does not have an indication of the time. This second meeting was to show him the page, although not complete, he believes on ROBERT's laptop.

--- Contacts for the meetings were made by mobile phone.

--- The other meetings, he does not know how many, but he claims there had been five or six times, occurred in a space of two or three days, where they gave information to the witness to carry out work on the page, or make changes. These meetings were conducted at his house, in the room opposite the gates, where he had the portable [computer], in the kitchen and in the "Baptista'. He does not know the specific days, but they were between 10H00 and 12H00 and in the afternoon between 18H00 and 21H00. This will have taken place in the summer of the past year. In some of those meetings MICHAELA was present.

--- After completing the page, he knows that ROBERT went to the UK. During the work, he had some problems with ROBERT, of a professional nature, because he demanded changes, and sometimes the witness forgot to perform them.

--- The last time they met was at the request of ROBERT, who called the witness to perform other work and improve the page. The day after the telephone contact he met with him together with MICHAELA. This meeting took place on 30 April 2007, so the contact call occurred on 29th. It was held in the "Baptista" supermarket, about 10H00. It was agreed that the witness would try the page, following indication from ROBERT, the indications being given by email. The witness' email: [e-mail address deleted]. The last telephone contact he had with ROBERT, he believes, was on May 11, when the witness was contacted, he thinks, at 16:00. This contact was to draw the attention of the witness, because the page opened incorrectly. He recalls trying to call ROBERT on 14th, however he [RM] had the appliance disconnected.

--- He describes his days as follows: he wakes at 09H00/10H00, has breakfast and leaves to go to deal with professional matters - visits to customers who have contracts and other clients who sought his services. He does not know the localities, or corresponding times. Usually no lunch, returning home at 18H00/19H00, where he consults his email and calendar. Rarely leaves at night, and when he does, he is accompanied by his girlfriend to go to the cinema or a restaurant. He usually schedules his services the day before he executes them. To travel between services he uses his car "Audi A4, registration 10-xx-xx'.

--- He states that he has all the appointments, with the data/hour and client's name booked [recorded] in his MDA and home computer.

--- Regarding the day 03 May he said that he did not meet, nor spoke with Robert. On this day he followed the routine described above.

--- As for the computers he had at home he said that one of them is his property, without brand, and the other two belong to customers, including a customer from Burgau, but he does not know the name, and another from the firm 'Avenue properties", with offices in Lagos and Praia da Luz. In his car he also had a laptop computer which he bought today in the "People's Radio" brand "Accer", for the sum of '599.

--- Also in Burgau he has a client by the name of "SALLY", a female, who is an aunt or cousin of ROBERT. She has a home called 'Salsalito' near the International School of Burgau. This visit occurred about a week ago, day 08 or 09.

--- With specific reference to the 03 May 2007, the witness confirms to have woken up at his parents' home, between 9 and 10am, having followed his normal professional activity, which is the service and repair of computers. He does not recall which customers were visited, since anything that occurs daily is registered in his MDA.

--- Also he does not recollect having lunch that day. He knows he got home by 18H00. He dined with the family and stayed in his room for the rest of the night, using the computer for games, Messenger, internet and may have carried out some repairs to the equipment of a client.

--- The next day, he learnt about the disappearance of a girl, through an image put in the shop window of a shop near to his house, having asked a member of staff what had happened, who also could not explain to him. He had a day without changes, that is, he did all tasks he had planned to perform.

--- He affirms not to have had any involvement in the efforts that were made by almost all local residents, in the search for the missing girl, named MADELEINE. This was due only to lack of time, since he had much work and could not fail in the commitments to customers.

--- With regard to the telephone contact he received on 03 May 07, at 23:30, made by ROBERT, he affirms that he does not recall having received such a call, but if this actually happened, it will have been to arrange a meeting with the same, for professional reasons.

--- He affirms he is not protecting ROBERT and never to have had the intention to take any kind of responsibility for him, including the activities undertaken for him on the computer.

--- He does not know any thing that can contribute to [finding the] the location of the girl, or for any another kind of explanation of the events under investigation.

--- No other information to provide for the file.

Has nothing further to add. Read, ratifies and will sign

Michael Terrence Wright Witness Statement - 16th April 2008

My wife is Kate's cousin and I have known Kate since she was 8 years old. She used to spend holidays on Isle of Man where I lived. My wife's and Kate's families are quite close. I have known Gerry since 1997 when he was going out with Kate before they married.

I haven't seen Kate and Gerry very often, but we always met at family events such as weddings and baptisms. I didn't attend their wedding because my wife, Anne-Marie, was ill and we didn't attend their children's baptisms because we were away on holidays. That said, since the birth of the twins we have met more frequently. In August 2006 they came to visit us at our house one weekend and that was very pleasant. On our side, we visited them in Rothley in November 2006 and they repeated their visit [to us] in February 2007. We work well together as a group and we know each other very well. We were planning a family holiday [together] for June 2007 at Center Park.

I wasn't in Portugal on 3 May at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. About 23:00 that night I received a very uncomfortable [or compelling] call from my wife's mother who told me about Madeleine's disappearance. Aunt Nora, from Canada, was in Skipton and was about to return to Canada the next morning. I suggested that she go to Liverpool instead. We all thought that Madeleine was going to appear in the following hours, even while I drove Nora back to Liverpool in the early morning of Friday, 4 May. I stayed in Liverpool. I spoke to Kate by phone between 10:00 and 11:00am that morning and she confirmed that she wanted her mother, her father and Nora with her. The family liaison [officer?] arranged the journey of the mother, father and Nora to Portugal that same afternoon. I went with them to Manchester airport. Kate's mother asked me to come to Portugal and I agreed on condition of speaking first with Gerry and Kate.

On Saturday, 5 May, I caught a plane from Leeds-Bradford to Faro and caught a taxi from the airport to the Mark Warner complex. Initially I stayed in an apartment in the same complex as Kate and Gerry. Those first days were hectic, always surrounded by the media and the situation appeared very transitory [temporary] with family and friends sleeping wherever they could. In Friday, 11 May, I returned home for a weekend with my family.

After that I made five further trips to Portugal on:

- Monday, 14 May to Friday, 18 May. I travelled alone and helped by doing what I could in the Madeleine campaign;

- Friday, 8 June to Wednesday, 13 June. I travelled with my wife, Anne-Marie. This trip was for us to take care of the twins while Kate and Gerry made a brief trip to Morocco.

- Thursday, 12 July to Friday, 13 July. I travelled alone and returned with Kate and the twins for them to attend the baptism of my own children. I had spoken previously with Gerry by phone and knew that he was in UK in meetings and he asked me to help Kate and the twins so that they could be there. Kate, Gerry and twins returned to Portugal on 15 July.

- Wednesday, 22 August to Saturday, 1 September. I left with Anne-Marie and our children, K and P, to replace Sandy and Trish Cameron. During this period we spoke with Kate and Gerry about the best time to return to UK. Provisionally the second week in September was decided and I contacted a removals firm in Lagos in my name, and I collected packing boxes and adhesive tape. We then began to pack all the stuff we wanted to keep, such as letters, postcards, etc. 

- Friday, 7 September to Sunday, 9 September. Gerry called me the night before and told me he was going to be interviewed the next day. I travelled alone and met Sandy Cameron at the airport and we caught a taxi to the villa. Kate, Gerry, the twins, Sandy and Trish, and Eileen McC left Portugal on Sunday morning and I left by myself that same afternoon after cleaning the villa.

During my initial trips to Portugal I stayed in Mark Warner apartments. In July, August and September I stayed in the villa rented by Kate and Gerry, I recall nothing strange about anything where I stayed. I didn't look for things that were particularly strange or suspicious but I did pay close attention to the Mark Warner apartments to consider potential hiding-places which could have been used by an intruder.

During my first two trips to Portugal, I recall that Kate and Gerry were in a flat spin,  but I spent a lot of time with them especially at night at dinner. I frequently helped Sandy with with mundane tasks such as opening the mail. We received many e-mails relating to the campaign and there was much in them to talk about, but our time with Kate and Gerry during the day was very irregular. During my stay at the villa our time was more concentrated.

With respect to Kate and Gerry's comportment after the disappearance, I witnessed first hand their desperation, how they cried and were distraught, though never during their meetings with officials or at press conferences. It was uncomfortable to see. I also saw them organised and controlled in meetings and in front of the media, and felt proud and impressed at their power of self-control on those occasions.

At the time I travelled with Anne-Marie on 8 June, Kate and Gerry had rented a vehicle. It had seven seats, I judged [thought] it to be a Renault Espace. Gerry suggested that I be added to the insured driver's list so that I could drive it while they were in Morocco, but I judged [thought] that to be unnecessary as they would only be gone for a few days. When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace.

It was on our trip to Portugal on 22 August that Gerry suggested that I was added to the contract as an additional driver and I accepted. Gerry and I went to Lagos and I was included in the contract as additional driver.

I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL and also taking the twins to creche and to the beach, and trips to the airport. I was also a passenger in the car at various times, mainly in June and July when Gerry and Sandy drove.

There are various rubbish recycling/dump areas and we used these:
- two trash bins at the villa, one at the main entrance and the other at the top of the hill;
- one area on the cemetery road;
- one area above the Mark Warner complex, and
- one area between the villa and the church.

The visiting gardener always generated garden rubbish and this was usually leaves and grass. Gerry and I would usually take this rubbish to the bin at the top of the property.

I never observed anything strange in the vehicle at any time that I was in it.

I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the [rubbish] bins, [thereby] provoking smell.
I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill.

I know that the twins travelled in the vehicle more than twenty times. For example, to creche, [to the] beach at Sagres, the airport and Burgau.
I am absolutely certain that Kate and Gerry were not capable of hiding Madeleine's body and later transporting it to a dump.

Witness statement Martin Smith - 26th May 2007

The witness states:
— That he comes to the process as a witness.

— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its written or oral form and is accompanied by an interpreter.

— That he has an apartment in Luz, Lagos, located in the Estela da Luz Urbanizaco, A1C. This apartment is co-owned by a friend whose name is Li** ON****. He normally visits Portugal three times a year. When here, he stays in the apartment. Concerning this period, he states that he arrived in Portugal on the 30th of April, 2007, with a booked return date of May 9, 2007. He arrived at Faro airport and flew out from Dublin.

— Concerning the facts under investigation, on the 3rd of May, he went with his family to the Dolphin restaurant in Praia da Luz where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and headed toward 'Kelly's Bar'; about a 50 metre distance from the restaurant, following the path, as it is very short. The walk took him a few minutes. In 'Kelly's Bar' they consumed some drinks. They left that establishment around 21H55 as his son would be travelling very early the next day. This bar is located on Calheta Street.

— After leaving the bar, he travelled in the opposite direction and reached a set of stairs which gave access to Rua 25 de Abril (25th of April Street). On this artery they followed a second street, parallel to Rua 1 de Maio (1st of May Street) whose name he does not remember. He was heading toward his apartment (Estrela da Luz complex) which is located a little above the street Travessa da Escola Primária (Primary school crossing). As he reached this artery, he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally and fitted in perfectly in that area, in that it is common to see people carrying children, at least during the holiday season. This individual was walking the downward path, in the opposite direction to him and his companions. He is not aware where this person was headed. He only saw him as they passed each other. He assumed it was a father and daughter, not raising any suspicion.

— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.

— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.

— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.

— He states that the child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. She was a child of normal build, about a metre in height though not being absolutely certain of that as she was being carried. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep and her eyelids were closed.

— She was wearing light-coloured pyjamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any wrap or blanket. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.

— Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent. He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position, suggesting [the carrying] not being habitual.

— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child who was carried by the individual could have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, also the opinion shared by his family.

— Questioned, says that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was in a deep sleep.

— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.

— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.

— At being asked, states that when he saw the individual he was accompanied by his wife, MARY SMITH, his son, PETER SMITH, his daughter-in-law, S***, his grandchildren of 13 and 6 years of age (children of PETER) TA*** and CO**, his daughter AOIFE (12 years of age), and his other two grandchildren (AI****** (10 years old) and EI**** (four years old). These are children of his daughter B***** who was in Ireland.

— States also that when he passed this individual he was coming down the middle of the road, in the street, also that at that time traffic is minimal or non-existent.

— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other so they would have seen the individual in different positions.

— He adds a sketch indicating the route and the locale of the sighting.

— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.

— And nothing more was said. He reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.

Witness statement Aoife Smith - 26th May 2007

— Being an English citizen, and not understanding Portuguese neither spoken nor written, she is accompanied by an interpreter.

— On 30 April 2007 she travelled to Portugal on holiday, specifically to the Algarve. She came with her parents Martin and Mary Smith and her two nieces, AC and EC.

— They stayed in the Estrela Da Luz complex in Praia da Luz where her parents have an apartment.

— When they arrived at the apartment they met her brother, Peter Smith, her sister-in-law, S.McD.Smith, her nephew (six years old), CO** and the son of her sister-in-law, TA*** (13 years old).

— They came on holiday for about 10 days, having returned to Ireland on 9 May 2007. (She is not absolutely certain of the day).

— Her days on holiday were spent in the swimming pool of the complex where they were lodged, on the beach of Luz and in the shopping centre. Normally, they were spent in Praia da Luz - Vila da Luz.

— Dinner was taken between 19h00 and 20h00, in the apartment or in the Restaurants "Dolphin", "Cavaleiro da Luz", "Chaplin" or the "Marujo", all situated in the Praia da Luz area.
' When they ate at home they would not normally go out. When they went to eat at the restaurants they stopped by Kelly's Bar, situated, she thinks, on Calheta Street in Praia da Luz.

— Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.

— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.

— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left because her father and her brother decided to leave early that night. There were two reasons for this: one was the fact that her sister-in-law was not feeling very well and the other was because her brother, sister-in-law, nephew and son of her sister-in-law finished their holiday the next day and had to catch the morning flight returning to Ireland.

— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].

— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.

— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.

— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.

— It was the first time she saw that man. She does not remember seeing him at any time in any location.

— She has seen photographs of Madeleine McCann and thinks that it could have been her. Asked, she said she was 60% certain.

— The description below made about the man and the female child that the witness saw was made at around 22H00, when the lighting was weak.

— Questioned, states that probably she would not be able to recognise either the individual or the child.
Personal Description:

— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.

— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.

— She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him almost completely at the top.

— She did not see what shoes he was wearing.

— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run. He did not look tired, moving in a manner usual when one carries a child.

— (2) the child was female because she had straight long hair to the neck. The colour was fair/light brown.

— She is certain that the child was about four years old because her niece (who was in the group) is of the same age and they were the same size.

— She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.

— There was nothing covering the child, a comforter/blanket or any other piece of clothing but she only saw her back.

— She was wearing light trousers, white or light pink, that may have been pyjamas. She does not remember if they were patterned as it was dark. The material was lightweight/thin and could have been cotton.

— She also had a light top, with long sleeves. She did not see it well because the individual had his arms around the child. She is not sure if the child's top was the same colour as her trousers, saying only that it was very light. The fabric was the same as the trousers.

— Questioned regarding the shoes, she responded that she did not remember seeing any shoes, not remembering if the child had any or not.

— Asked to tell the truth, she affirms that what she has finished declaring is the truth of the facts, according to her knowledge.
— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it inconformity, ratifies and signs together with

Witness statement Peter Smith - 26th May 2007

— That he comes to the process as a witness.

— Being of Irish nationality, he does not understand Portuguese in its oral or written form and is therefore accompanied by an interpreter.

— States that his father owns an apartment in the town of Luz, Lagos, namely in Urban. Estrela da Luz, corresponding to A1C. His father comes to Portugal at least three times per year. The deponent went the first time that he travelled to Portugal.

— Concerning the period in question, states that he arrived in Portugal on the 26th of April of 2007 and had his return passage booked for the 4th of May of the same year. He arrived at Faro airport from the city of Dublin. That he arrived before his father, by choice, due to available days. He came accompanied by his wife, S***, and his two children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 years old respectively.

— He would like to clarify that on the 3rd of May, he and his family went to the Dolphin restaurant, situated in Praia da Luz, where they dined. Around 21H00 they left the restaurant and went to Kelly's Bar, about one minute away on foot. In Kelly's Bar (he does not remember the name of the street it is on) they had a few drinks, having left from there around 21H50/22H00.

— They left the bar, and went up some steps that give access to a road just above. On this road they took a side street, the name of which he does not know, in the direction of Estrela da Luz. Immediately at the beginning of this road he saw an individual carrying a child, who walked normally, with a fairly quick step because he was coming downhill. It appeared normal to him, like father and daughter. He adds that this individual was coming down the street, opposite to the direction of the deponent and his family. He does not know what direction the individual took as he only saw him as they passed each other.

— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 21H55/22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day

— At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.

— The description of the individual who carried the child was: Caucasian, around 175 to 180 cm tall. About 35 years, or older. He was somewhat tanned as a result of sun exposure. Average build, in good shape. Short hair, brown in colour. He does not remember if he wore glasses, or had a beard or a moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details as the lighting was bad.
— He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes. He states that he did not notice those details as his pregnant wife was somewhat ill and he was constantly attending to her, not caring about observation of the individual.

— He states the child was female. She was perhaps two or three years old, in that she appeared to him to be a bit smaller than his niece of the same age. She was a child of normal build. She had blonde hair, of medium shade, not very light. Her skin was white, typically British. He did not notice her eyes as she was asleep, having closed eyelids.

— He does not remember her clothing very well but thinks it was lightweight summer clothing, light in colour. He does not remember if she was covered with any wrap or blanket. He cannot affirm if she was barefoot.

— He states that [the man] carried the child on his arms, with the head resting on the left shoulder, as such on the right of the deponent, appearing to him in a natural manner.

— Having already seen various photographs of MADELEINE and televised images, states that the child that was carried by the individual may have been her. He cannot state this as fact but is convinced that it could have been MADELEINE, an opinion shared by his family.

— Questioned, states that the individual did not speak nor did the child as she was sleeping deeply. He adds also that the individual did not try to hide his face or lower his look, [doing] nothing [that would be] perceived as strange.

— States that it would not be possible to recognize the individual in person or via photograph.

— At being asked, says that when he saw the individual, the deponent was accompanied by his wife, S***, his father MARTIN, his mother MARY, his children TA*** and CO**, 13 and 6 year old respectively, his sister AOIFE, 12 years old, and his two nieces AI******, 10 years, and EI****, 4 years, children of his sister B******, who was in Ireland.

— States further that when he passed the individual, the individual was coming down to his right, going around the deponent in the middle of the street. At that time the traffic was minimal or non-existent.

— He adds that the group walked some metres apart from each other, therefore they would have seen the individual in different positions.

— He adds a sketch indicating the route and place of the sighting.

— Adds further that his son TA*** was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot.

— He has nothing else to offer the investigation.

— And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, ratifies and signs together with the interpreter.

Witness Statement of Susan Hubbard - 13th November 2007

[Susan Hubbard, wife of Father Haynes Hubbard, Anglican priest transferred from his placement in Canada to Praia da Luz in May 2007.  According to a press report Susan Hubbard considered their transfer to be an act of God - a calling to aid a couple in distress].

' That she comes to the process as a witness

' Is married to Anglican Father Haynes

' Has known the McCann family since three days after the disappearance (Sunday). That she went to Portugal on this date (06 May 2007), not to accompany the family but due to work related to the church, which was previously organized.

' That it is the truth that she only knows them through the church and never met them before.

' States that after getting to know the parents of the missing child, she invited Kate to take part in a meeting, in Lagos, on the 25th of May, with the intention of discussing items related to missing children. That she went to this meeting, with Kate and Kates cousin, Anne. They travelled to this meeting in the deponents car.

' After this occasion, she went various times to the McCann residence in Praia da Luz, and they also visited the deponent, in her home, on various occasions. These encounters had the objective of offering them comfort and support but also allowed for the children of both couples to play.

' She also adds that the McCann's' although being Catholics, attended some masses, where Madeleines disappearance was noted, celebrated by her husband, the Anglican priest.

' Questioned regarding the key to the church, she says that she knows nothing of this. Following the McCann departure to England, she was given the key to handover to the place the McCann's rented in Praia da Luz. She handed this key over the next Monday. Her handling of the key was suggested by one of the McCann family but she does not remember who. She notes that on this Monday, she handed over the keys to the cleaning staff who forwarded the key to the responsible rental agent and whose designation she does not remember.

' Besides these contacts, she did not maintain and other relation with the McCann family.

' Sean and Amelie, she notes, are children of normal behaviour for their age. They are active and dynamic.

' Regarding the parents, Gerald and Kate, she says that, in her opinion, they always presented a normal comportment, given the circumstances. That she noted a certain tranquillity, when in the presence of the twins. Via their gestures, she noted a great sadness and suffering. In their conversations, they would always talk of their missing daughter.

' Regarding Kate, she says that, besides being preoccupied with the health of her daughter, she was scared of what could have happened to Madeleine although she never spoke of her death.

' She describes them as a normal family

' She is not aware of any relevant details for the investigation. She claims that the parents are not involved in the disappearance and knows nothing else, other than what she has related.

' And nothing more was said. Reads and finds it in conformity, and ratifies and signs.

Witness Statement of Alexander James Cameron - 15th April 2008

Occupation: Professor/teacher

I am the above referenced person, also known between friends and family as 'Sandy.' I have been married to my wife Patricia CAMERON for 23 years but we knew each other for a few years before that. Patricia is Gerry McCann's sister, making me Gerry's brother-in-law. I got to know Gerry roughly the same time I got to know Patricia' approximately 30 years. Around 10 years ago, Gerry married Kate Healy and since that time I have know Kate. Gerry and Kate have three children, Madeleine (4 years old) and the twins Sean and Amelie (2 years old). I have met with Kate and Gerry and the children on numerous occasions both tat their home and in mine. I also visited the family when Gerry was working in Amsterdam. On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard. We also decided to fly to Portugal in order to offer all our help and support to Kate and Gerry. It was not possible for us to arrange to a flight on Friday, and consequently left Manchester to faro on Saturday, May 5, 2007. When we arrived in Praia da Luz we found Kate and Gerry. At this time we noticed a huge interest from the media regarding what had happened and Gerry and Kate were being helped in part by the Foreign (traveller) Services, representatives from Mark Warner and other members of the family.

They continued to demonstrate much distress and tried to deal with all the advice given to them, much of which was contradictory. When we arrived in Portugal we stayed in an apartment in the Mark Warner Praia da Luz complex. Kate and Gerry were still lodged in the same complex, even though it was not the same apartment. We had a separate apartment on the same floor and close to two doors somewhat of a distance. During part of this time, our days had similar routines. During the day we would leave the apartment to meet with Kate and Gerry in order to care for the twins Sean and Amelie, and also to cook for all of us. Kate and Gerry would use our apartment as an office in order to have meetings and to effect search plans for Madeleine. This continued until the end of June, at a time when Mark Warner required that we leave the complex and at a time when tourist high season was about to begin.

During these first two months we provided help to Kate and Gerry, and only returned to the U.K. on two occasions in order to take care of some personal business. In the beginning of July of 2007, we left the Ocean Club and moved to a villa with Kate, Gerry and the twins in the Montinhos zone, around 1.5 km from the OC. We never noticed anything strange in the site were we stayed. On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle; to drive the children and to go shopping. These were things that Gerry was too occupied to carry out himself. I was the habitual drive of the vehicle and used it daily. I drove to many places, including the airport, local supermarkets, and drove the children to the zoo and the beaches in the area. I also travelled as a passenger on many occasions, when Kate, Gerry or other people were visiting, or driving the vehicle. People who were present in the vehicle were Kate, Gerry, Sean, Amelie, Mike Wright, Janet (Kate's aunt), Kate's mother and father, and her friend Amanda. Basically, the vehicle served as a transport for friend and family who cam to offer their help to Kate and Gerry and also to effect daily routines. The same vehicle was also used to move us from the Ocean Club to the villa, transporting all the luggage and personal objects from one location to the other. During these trips, the children seats would be removed to create space.

Whilst in the villa, a gardener would arrive every week or about every 15 days. This was organized by the estate agency. The gardener would leave black rubbish bags near the gate, and on at least one occasion, I used the vehicle to remove these bags. The collection of rubbish in Portugal is not made as it is in the U.K., and for this reason, it was necessary to take the rubbish to a tip (disposal area) which was called 'recycling area' near the back of the Ocean Club. I used the Renault Scenic for this reason on many occasions.

On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags. As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out.

In my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale. There was always a lot of people and the media observing their movements which would make this impossible. As I cited previously, I have know Madeleine her whole life and saw her on many occasions. I always found her a very smart little girl and careful with strangers. I also saw when she woke after a nap and after a night of sleep. She would occasionally appear irritated as she would when her parents were not present. For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out. I do not believe that there is any possibility that she would have let a stranger take her without protest.

Relative to what is cited above, I will add that I was interviewed via DVD by Dc Gierc of the Leicestershire police between 09h58 and 10h39 on Tuesday, 15 of April of 2008 in the Leicestershire Police Squad. I confirm that my DVD testimony is true and in accordance with my understanding.

Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista, Maintenance Services Director - 7th May 2007

She works at Ocean Club since 03/03/1986, as a receptionist for about a year and a half, and as head of Reception for about three years. After and until the present date, as a head of maintenance and services .

The head of maintenance and services, in the area of services, is responsible for the admission of employees and, in the area of maintenance, is responsible for the admission of employees and the good functioning of all equipments of the Ocean Club, including : flats, swimming pools, gardens, fences, etc.

Concerning the admission of staff, it is done in the traditional way, ie when an employee is needed for a particular area the situation is discussed between the various
heads and other employees . Usually some employee or head indicates a person he/she knows and, in most cases, resident in Lagos.

The witness, being a native of Lagos and knowing many people in that town, tries to find out about the reputation and character of the candidate to the job.
It may happen that employees are looked for in the Centre for Employment of Lagos Either way, is always carried out a labour contract with the employee, for a
minimum of six months. A special form is filled that includes all the data identifying the employee and sometimes informations about his/her previous professional occupation.
The exception is when you hire a company to provide a service : that company is responsible for its employees, who are nevertheless under the eye of the head of works and maintenance, Mr. Joao Carlos Silva Batista .

She is aware of the events that occurred in the Ocean Club resort, having had knowledge of the girl's disappearance, by 22H.30 on 03/05/2007, through
a telephone call from the administrator George Robin Crosland .

She immediately went to the Ocean Club resort where later arrived the GNR. A search started immediately throughout the village. Many residents and employees of OC participated.

On the 03/05/2007 she started working by 09H30, having entered the Ocean Club through the area of the Club, having walked through the swimming pool area and later having checked the other swimming pools.

At about 13:00 she went to Lagos, with her husband, Mr. Joao Carlos Silva Batista and came back at about 14H30 .

At about18H00 she left the resort and only came back when the circumstances outlined above occurred.

During the day 03/05/2007 she did not detect anything unusual or different.

No strange situation was reported to her.

After the events and in conversation with other employees and heads of the Ocean Club, nothing was reported or commented concerning odd situations, such as the presence of strangers close to the resort.

She states that the Ocean Club Resort has no system of video surveillance.

She's here as a witness. She is responsible for maintenance in the Ocean Club Resort located in Praia da Luz - Lagos. Because of her profession she knows many people of the English community, who live in Praia da Luz.

She knows the Murat (sic !) family, who has been there for about 30 years. In particular Mr. Murat and his wife Jenny. Mr. Murat was linked to building business and development of tourism enterprises, in Salema in her opinion. Mr. Murat died some years ago.

The Murat live in a house named "casa Liliana", near the Ocean Club.

Asked, she said not to remember whether the Murats have any child.

Asked, she said that on the night when Madeleine McCain (sic...) disappeared (03-05-2007), she was called by her boss, at about at 22:30. As she lives in Lagos she arrived shortly after at the resort. Close to the apartment A-5 of the OC there were already about 60 people to look for the girl.

She remembers, although she is not absolutely certain, given the time already elapsed, that an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann.

She doesn't remember at what time she saw him.

She doesn't remember how he was dressed up.

She doesn't remember who was with him, whether he came walking or in some vehicle. That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.
Robert speaks fluently English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR of Lagos and later the PJ, translating the testimony of some British persons.

She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.

She states that she spoke for the first time with Robert on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or may be on Monday (07-05-2007), during the breaks between the interviews in which he participated as a translator.

She describes him as a very sympathetic and direct guy. RM was very communicative and extrovert during the conversations they had together. He didn't mention any personal subject.

She made already statements concerning this process several times and remembers what she stated earlier, repeating here what the content of previous statements.

She is here because, with the passage of time since Madeleine disappeared she has remembered a few details on the testified facts that she believes may be somehow of interest to the investigation.

As she said earlier she was alerted about the disappearance of Madeleine between 22.30 and 23:00. She was at home and was informed of the event via a telephone call.

She drove immediately to the Ocean Club where she arrived a few minutes before elements of the GNR popped in.

After she arrived she went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.

When she came close to the elements of the GNR she found that behind her was
Gerry, Madeleine's father, accompanied by another man whose identity she doesn't remember.

Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5.

She entered the apartment and asked for the passports of all elements of the family, and also photographs of the missing girl. She went with Gerry to the GNR car to hand over the requested documents. She mentions she did this, as well as other tasks, at the request of the GNR Commandant, because she could translate their questions and the missing girl's family's answers.
She remembers Gerry gave the Commandant of several photographs of the missing girl. They were postcard-like pictures, taking into account their size and shape and seemed all the same to her.

She understood also that since the very beginning either Gerry or the others insisted on stating that Madeleine had been snatched, all using the word "abducted" instead of missing, and all showing much interest in informing the press of the situation.

She also recalls entering in the room where Madeleine should be sleeping and remembers now that the door was closed. The room was dark. The blinds were down, some light entering through their holes. The windows were closed and the curtains slightly open. Gerry, who followed her and the elements of the GNR, said he did close the window because of the babies sleeping in the room, a fact she confirms.

Gerry said that when he discovered the disappearance of Madeleine he noticed that the window and the blinds were open and the curtains fluttering.
She recalls that the beds which were in the middle of the room and used by the babies
were aligned and therefore found it strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she would be sleeping and had gone to the window because there was no space to pass.
She opened the wardrobes of that room in order to confirm that Madeleine wasn't eventually hiding there.

Then everyone left the room and someone shut the door. She remained for some time in the living room, near the GNR elements, Gerry and other elements of the group who got in and out and spoke on their cellular phones.

She observed that none of the elements of the group including the father and mother
of the child was concerned with looking for her.
The mother was sitting on the bed of her room, the father was with her (the witness) and the elements of the GNR, and other elements of the group got in and out and spoke on the phone, anxious, in her opinion, to tell the press what happened.

She thought that the child's mother was devastated, the father was worried and also asked to notify the press and to get dogs to search.
About the others she only remembers that Fiona and her husband, Payne, were hysterical with the situation.

At a certain time, after the arrival of the PJ elements, the parents removed the twins
from the beds in which they were still sleeping and took them to the first floor flat.

At the request of Kate she (the witness) removed the toys and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained

She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. They didn't explain why they wanted a priest but she (the witness) was amazed, because there were no indications that the little girl was dead and only in these circumstances is usually asked the presence of a priest.

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.

This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man. She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.

Asked about the way the members of the group were dressed up in that night, she only remembers that Fiona was wearing a green blouse, that Gerry was wearing a dark shirt
and the husband of Fiona wearing clear pants, beige she thinks.

01-Processo 86 to 103

KIDS CLUB STAFF interviewed 4 May 2007 by Inspector M.Pinho

Processo Vol I pages 86 to 90; pages 91-103 being passport photocopies.

Today we, I and my colleague L.Madeira, spoke with Mrs Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista., director of maintenance and services for the company "GREENTROUST", which manages the "OCEAN CLUB" company, contactable by mobile phone 964....

Through her, we contacted, Donna_Louise_Rafferty_Hill (contactable by mobile phone number 964...) manager of the creche staff for the "MARK WARNER" company, [who were] responsible for Madeleine and the twins for several periods each day after the McCann family arrived in Portugal.

The latter advised us that all these employees are English nationals and that they came to work in Portugal from
March/April until November; that there are 13 people who work in the creche, their names and telephone numbers being as follows: [NOTE: Phone numbers withheld]
- Pauline Francis M.
- Emma Louise W.
- Sarah Elizabeth W.
- Susan bernadette O.
- Leanne Danielle W.
- Shinead Maria V.
- Jacqueline Mary W.
- Kirsty Louise M.
- Lynne R.F.
- Catriona Treasa Sisile B.
- Stacey P.
- Lyndsay Jayne J.
- Amy Ellen T.

--- It was determined further that all these girls live outside the complex [resort], although quite close to it, and that Catriona B. was responsible for Madeleine during the day yesterday.
--- Stacey P. was the staff member responsible for the McCann twins.
--- Usually, it is always the same young woman who cares for the same child.
--- The latest arrivals in Portugal were Sarah W. and Charlotte Pennington who arrived last Saturday, April 28th 2007. --- The informant, responsible for coordination, distributed the children between the various girls, taking care that each child was unknown to their carer.
--- The informant noticed nothing abnormal up to today and that no one was absent from work except those who were on their day off.
--- All the carers have made themselves available to speak with the police.

*CATRIONA B.*

In our informal conversation with Catriona Trease Sisile B., also known as CAT, she stated:

1. That she arrived on March 21st 2007 and that she plans to return to the UK on November 7th 2007;
2. That she cared for Madeleine since Sunday April 29th 2007, daily until yesterday and that she always worked the same hours;
3. That yesterday Madeleine arrived at 9.10. It was her father, Gerry, who brought her;
4. That her mother, Kate, picked her up at 12.25;
5. That her mother, Kate, dropped her off at 14.50 and picked her up at 17.30;
6. That in the same room as Madeleine, there were 6 other children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon (including Madeleine);
7. That she did not see any strangers in the complex during that time or previous days.
8. That on the first day, Madeleine was shy. On the following days she was more calm and uninhibited. Yesterday she was joyful.
9. That she was never far from Madeleine, keeping her under visual supervision at all times when she was her responsibility, even asking her permission to go to the bathroom;
10. That, over the days, she noticed no change in the behaviour of the child's parents;
11. That she noticed no abnormal situation relating to this family;
12. That Madeleine had not told her about any person who had contacted [spoken to] her in recent days, nor [about] any possibly suspicious conversation.

*STACEY P.*

In informal conversation with Stacey P., she stated:

1. That it is she and her colleague, Shinead, who usually cares for the twins;
2. That yesterday, it was the informant who cared for the twins, her colleague was on her day off;
3. That the children were dropped off by their parents at 9.30 and that the mother picked them up at 12.30;
4. That it was the father who dropped them off at 14.30 and that it was the mother who came to fetch them at 17.30;
5. That she saw no-one strange in the surrounding area;
6. That the behaviour of the parents was always perfectly normal;
7. That she arrived in Portugal on March 18th and that she returns to the UK on November 7th 2007.

--- That it was not possible to speak with the rest of the carers, notably Shinead, because most of them were
absent and there exists higher priority work;
--- Attached are copies of the female employees' passports;
--- Attached is a list of their names with the recorded dates of arrival for each, [and] the planned date of leaving, among other things;
--- Also attached are the creche attendance registers for the children, of the recent days.

Signed: Manuel Pinho, Inspector.

Stephen Carpenter witness statement - 21st April 2008

I am the person referred to above and I live at the address provided to the police.
I confirm that I was questioned by DC 4078 Ferguson from Leicestershire police on 21st April 2008.
The questioning began at 10.30 and finished at 11.10 on the same day. The questioning was filmed on DVD and on cassette. This statement was made by me and is truthful according to my understanding.

The questioning took place at the police station in Stevenage, Hertfordshire on the 21st April 2008.
I would be more than satisfied if the evidence presented by me was used and if required to appear at court in Portugal I would need to be notified in advance. .

Statement
Date 21st April 2008
Pages: 1
Statement of Stephen Carpenter

Leicestershire Police Force
Form MG15 (T)

Officer who conducted the questioning: DC 4078 Ferguson

_____________________________

Duration of Interview: 39 minutes

DCF: Do you agree with me reading out your statement'

SC: Yes, I agree, yes.

DCF: Or would you prefer to read out the statement yourself'

SC: No, thats fine, you can read it.

DCF: I thought it would make more sense that way:

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: So when we get to the moment that refers to Portugal, it will refresh your memory.

SC: Please can I take some notes'

DCF: Yes of course. I'll get you a sheet of paper.

SC: Yes, OK.

DCF: I will have to go and get one because I haven't got my bag with me.
.
DC FERGUSON leaves the interrogation room..

DC FERGUSON returns to the interrogation room.

DCF: This was the best I could find.

SC: Yes, that's fine, its just for small details like people's names.

DCF: Yes.

SC: That would be, humm the babysitters and the people I played tennis with. I've got, hummm I almost remember all of their names. .

DCF: I would just like to introduce myself, I am DC Sophie Ferguson. I work for the Main Criminal Unit of the Leicestershire police and we have obviously been working on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, to provide assistance to the Portuguese and the reason for which we are here today is because the Portuguese have asked us to carry out some questioning of some of the witnesses.

SC: Agreed.

DCF: And also, Gerry and Kate have the right to ask the witnesses some questions and for that reason some of the questionings carried out incorporate questions suggested by them.

SC. OK.

DCF: It is now 10.30 on the 21st April.

SC: Yes.

DCF: It is the 21st today, isn't it'

SC: Yes.

DCF: Of the year 2008 and we are in a room in a house on Telford Avenue in Stevenage where neither of us have been before.

SC: OK

DCF: DC Eleanor JOHNSON is monitoring this interrogation Could you please tell m your name in full'

SC: Humm... Stephen John CARPENTER

DCF: And your date of birth'

SC: *******

DCF: Thank you. Would you prefer us to call you Stephen or Steve'

SC: Steve.

DCF: Steve it is then.

SC: Mm.

DCF:Okay, there is a letter for you, a letter to be handed to you ...

SC: Okay, thanks.

DCF: Before beginning the questioning and explaining the reason why you are here.

SC: Okay.

DCF: You can take a minute to read the contents if you wish..

(CARPENTER reads the letter): Yes, that's fine..

DCF: Okay, as I already explained previously this will be filmed so that we can send the CD so that the Portuguese can hear instead of only reading the statement, once they get a copy.

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: And I know that before we begin the questioning, that you showed some concern about the truthful recording of the facts and that they could have had some distortions by what you have read about the event.

SC: Yes.

DCF: Therefore what we have agreed to do is to read your statement and put the facts together.

SC: Ah ha, yes that would seem right to me.

DCF: And afterwards I will ask you whether there is anything else you would like to add.

SC: Okay.

DCF: Or anything else that you would like to discuss and afterwards, afterwards I will ask the questions that we were requested.

SC: Okay.

DCF: And we can talk about this for as long as we need to, there is no time limit.

SC: Yes, fine.

DCF: Are you feeling all right'

SC: Yes, fine.

DC: Good. Right, this statement was taken by a UK police officer on the 17th May and so the facts should be quite fresh in your memory.

SC: Yes.
.
DCF: This is obviously 2007 and begins by explaining the reason for the questioning, in other words, relating to the disappearance of Madeleine. In the statement you say "I will mention the following persons who I will describe with greater detail at the end of the statement" Is it C*** or C******'

SC: C*****.

DCF: C***** is your wife and at the time of the events you had known her for nine years and I****** is your daughter aged three and a half and F***** is obviously your other child aged five months. During the holiday you met the following persons, Gerry and Kate McCann, saw their children, Madeleine and the twins, but don't know their names. J*** C***** whom I met whilst playing tennis, I also met Dan and Georgia who were tennis instructors of the Mark Warner holiday resort (inaudible) I had met Dan on previous Mark Warner holidays at the (inaudible) resort. . I met the following persons when I participated in the searches for Madeleine during the day after her disappearance, Raj and Neil, Mark Warner tourists, John Hill, manager of the MW resort, we also used three babysitters, Pauline, Emma and Leanne. Emma and Leanne would look after our children in the evenings, they were all British and employees of MW. A man with three children whom I met in the Tapas Bar and who I referred to as the "Tapas Guy" and a Portuguese man in a garage whom I will refer to as the "laundry man".

SC: Okay.

DCF:Okay. That was just to set the scene..

SC: Yes.

DCF: Neil and Raj, two MW tourists that I saw in the Tapas Bar who were looking for Madeleine with me, doesn't make much sense, I think it was perhaps explaining who they are and where I met them. I will now describe the resort and to help me with this description I will base myself upon an aerial photograph from the Sun Newspaper dated the 16th May, which we do not have here today, but which is not important. The resort is a closed holiday complex with apartments and some villas. This takes us to the next question which is, how did you appear on the scene. "My wife booked the holidays in the MW resort in Praia da Luz, from Saturday 28th April to Saturday 5th May, at Going Places in Welwyn Garden City." You go on to describe your previous holidays and that you chose this one because you were told that the "baby sitter" service was available. You arrived at the resort on Saturday morning, pardon on Saturday at approximately two in the afternoon and were accompanied to your apartment, FP02 Ocean Club.
At about 4.15 on the same day you went to a crèche meeting where you wee told who the crèche workers who would look after your children were and that your children would be in different groups given the difference in age. I**** was in the group for children between three and four years old, her crèche worker was Emma and it was only after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann that I realised that she was in the same group as I****. That night C****, F****, I**** and I went to the Millenium Restaurant, we did not see any of the other MW tourists there and I remember that I did not see any of the other people I mentioned in my statement there. On Sunday the 29th April C**** and I participated in a coffee morning of the MW tennis group where I met Gerry, Kate, J****, C****, R****, A***, G***, A***'s sister and A***, there were other tourists there whose names now escape me. In total there were approximately some sixteen people at this coffee morning and tennis was one of the activities that the man, or that both subscribed to during the week. I am summarising a bit, because.....


SC: Okay, that's fine..

DCF: I first played tennis with Kate and G***n, there was another lady whose name I can't remember and afterwards I played with Kate and G**** against Gerry and naturally after the game I spoke to Gerry and Kate as well as to the other people present. I think that this is just a setting of the scene.

SC: Yes, OK.

DCF: In this way I got to know Gerry and Kate and spoke with them as I did with other people.

SC: Yes.
.
DCF: And during my stay I would greet them when I met them. Later we pass to your activities during the week, do you remember if there was anything relevant in their activities during this week'

SC: Humm, anything relevant, not really....hummmm... it was normal, possibly after having left and now knowing where Murat was in relation to us, because i don't know whether they showed you the proximity between us.

DCF: No.

SC: Let me show you some things about that, humm....let's see, because...hummm, our apartment was not near to there.

DCF: Mmm mmm.

SC: Here was the club where Gerry was, behind Murat's garden and here we were probably the people closest to Murat.

DCF: Thats true, I see.

SC: The bushes were all around here, we were far away from the rest, it was all open, and this is why I think (inaudible) you know, this is the idea that, humm...I think of when i mentioned in the interrogation that there was a laundry outlet where other things were kept.

DCF: Mmm, yes.

SC: But humm, nothing strange that someone wouldn't do during their holidays, the only thing is thinking about our proximity to Murat's property.

DCF: Yes, I understand, much of this is in the....

SC: Background.

DCF: Yes. When I went to the Tapas Bar and was seen there, talking on the Thurday 3rd May we analysed this in more detail because it was obviously more relevant. "The second time I entered the Tapas Bar was on Thursday 3rd May" which ended up being the day that Madeleine disappeared.

.
SC: Ah ha.

DCF: We arrived at about seven because we had the children with us and I saw a man sitting at the table next to us with three children.

SC: Yes
.
DCF: He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there, I had never seen him before that night, but he ended up joining us for a coffee, he was a MW tourist. Another couple whose names I do not remember, sat at the table opposite us. A man was sitting on the esplanade having a drink whilst waiting for a take away, I spoke to them briefly, I hadn't realised that the Tapas bar had a take away service. At that time i didn't know their names. At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance". OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'

SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine" and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.

DCF: Yes, and where you state that it was on GMTV.

SC:: Yes..

DCF: I think that it was reported that it was a three year old child and probably thought who could it be and knew that Kate and Gerry were from Leicestershire and assumed that it was one of their children seeing that they had small children'

SC: Ah.

DCF: And afterwards you left your apartment to see if you could help in any way and as you said previously, everything was very quiet and there was nobody around. Then you say "I went to the MW reception and I met two of Gerry's surfing friends who told me that Madeleine had been abducted on the previous night, I asked if there was anything I could do to help and I think they were waiting for news from the Portuguese police. We walked towards the supermarket and ended up at the 24 hour reception where some men tried to speak to some Portuguese employees in the attempt to make a phone call, but communication became complicated because the employee did not speak English and the man did not speak Portuguese. We returned to the MW reception where I asked whether there was anything I could do to help so that they would let me know and returned to my apartment by the same route as the previous night. Upon nearing my apartment I heard a male voice coming from the garden next to my apartment.

DCF: This would be the voice of Murat, correct'

SC: Yes. This garden is situated at the other side of the passage way from my apartment block and is enclosed by net fence of about 1.80 m in height, the garden is thick and it was not possible to see inside, there was also a passageway along the garden without a wall that was on the way from our apartment to the Millenium restaurant. At some stage I managed to see clearly inside the garden, but I did not know who was the owner of the house and I never saw anyone inside the garden or the house or see anyone leaving until the moment that I heard a voice calling me. Then a voice called me from over the hedge. "What is happening, or what is going on'", I replied that a three year old girl had disappeared, he said "I am going to come round to talk to you" and he did this, walked round to come over towards me and said "I have lived here for fourteen years, I speak Portuguese fluently and I can help to translate", and we introduced ourselves, he told me he was Robert and this was the first time I had seen this man. Robert mentioned that he had a daughter in Norfolk who was the same age as Madeleine, and that is why he was able to understand what they were going through. We walked back along the path that I had taken to Gerry's apartment and I explained that Robert spoke Portuguese fluently, he told Gerry that it was important to have someone who spoke the language so that nothing would be lost in translation.. And that was how Robert Murat was presented as a translator.


DCF: Yes

SC: After he left, he explained that Gerry was frustrated with the way in which the case was being handled and they went to talk to John Hill.


DCF: Yes..

SC: In Mark Warner and he asked that all the Mark Warner rooms be opened so that he could check them and asked the cleaning ladies etc. to help open all the empty apartments that were not necessarily in the Mark Warner complex, but for which they might have the keys. At this moment I also met an English man called Dave who lived in the area and helped the Ocean Club to authorise entry into all the apartments possible, some of the apartments in Gerry's block belonged to local owners and Dave helped to get the keys to these apartments so that they could check them and search them, they checked them all in a general manner.

DCF: Mmm mmm.


SC: Robert and I searched the areas near to the beach.

DCF: During your conversations with Robert is there anything that you would like to comment on'

SC: Humm, no, its probably nothing relevant, the only thing since all of this happened and from reading the papers, I'm not sure if I am right or wrong, but his involvement in the translations was due to my intervention, clearly it was I who, based upon what he told me, took him to see Gerry, humm..and just that, I do not know whether it was already explained and wasn't published in the papers or I do not know why (inaudible) I think that the reason for his involvement was because of me.

.
DCF: Mmm.

SC: And then the first thing that he said was "Well, I did not actually offer my services, I "bumped" into this individual.

DCF: Yes:

SC: That is the only, only thing that I would correct and I think it is a bit strange that someone would state that they offer themselves as a volunteer, or the way in which it really happened after having told me that he spoke Portuguese fluently, I said to him "Well, in this case that could be useful" and afterwards accompanied him - and that was how he (inaudible) thought that it was a bit strange. Because the way he said it gave the impression that it was voluntary.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Whereas now the version is a bit different.

DCF: Yes, yes. And do you remember what you talked about whilst you were searching with him'

SC: Humm...he obviously talked to me about his daughter.

DCF: Yes.

SC: They had a team of sniffer dogs on site, they came from Lisbon according to what I was told, and afterwards we walked to the beach in the attempt to find the scent, to see of she had got lost alone or had fallen into the sea, and it was just him and me and the dog handlers, so that there was not any big theme of conversation, just walking the route - or on the way back, when we arrived we talked with different Portuguese police
Officers and afterwards with the officer who appeared to be leading the operation, a man who appeared to be from Forensics, but as I say now nothing appears very clear to me.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Humm... where Robert presented himself as being capable of speaking both languages and they couldn't, they tried to use him in order to obtain a maximum of information from the English side, so that the Portuguese could understand what the people were saying and what state they were in... that was the involvement with the police and afterwards we tried to enter all the apartments that they had seen to where Gerry and Kate were staying.

DCF: Yes..

SC: And it was just talking about, you know...trying to get possible access and trying to open a maximum of doors in the area, and I think that was all.

DCF: You go on to describe in a little more detail the searches in the apartments neighbouring on Gerry and Kate's apartment, then you met Neil and Raj who began to talk and told you that they had collaborated in the searches the night before.

SC: Yes. .

DCF: And they explained to you that they had seen a man with dreadlocks and they felt there was something suspicious about him, that they were not satisfied with him.

SC: Yes, yes.

DCF: Then he introduced himself saying that he lived in Portugal and that he had just bought an apartment block.
.
SC: Yes.

DCF:
They were staying opposite Gerry's block, that meant that they were more concentrated in that area.

SC: Yes, because Raj in particular said that he felt there was something strange and that he was not certain, and the fact of where they were staying, the fact that the back of the apartment block was opposite Kate and Gerry's apartment, humm...and the fact that they even discussed the purchase price and how much he had paid, but the following morning there was no sign, even knocking on all the doors of the apartments that were occupied and those that were empty, we did not find anyone, he said, and that is why we thought it was strange that someone who had been available and collaborated in the searches and who lived in the area, was not found the following morning, because as you know, we were not contactable.

DCF: No sign of him and you remember that you were worried about this man who was described as being fifty years of age with grey hair.

SC:Ah ha.

DCF: And it seemed strange that a person who helped so much on the previous night disappeared the following morning.

SC: Yes, I suppose there was something that even the local Portuguese would be incapable of identifying (inaudible) or recognising for the description of a poster especially.

DCF: Who it was.

SC: Hummm.. then it was just a question of asking who he might be, where he was and to be able to eliminate him from the list of suspects, so that he would be at least one less person to worry about.


DCF: And did you speak to Robert about this as the person who was also on the scene'


SC: Ah ha.

DCF: On Saturday morning, the 5th May you spoke to a BBC reporter.

SC: Yes.

DCF: You told them that you remember that some of the reporters were being unfair and incorrect because they were treating the situation as that of a missing child and not of a child whom had been abducted.

SC: Yes.


DCF: And you go on to say that you spoke to Robert that day about how the Portuguese Police were unhappy with the incomprehensible way in which the British press treated them.
SC: That was what he said. What he explained to me.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Yes.
.
DCF: Yes, you met Gerry in the swimming pool area on Saturday afternoon, he told you that the fifty year old man had not been taken into consideration, that the Leicestershire police were on their way and you gave him your phone number and returned to England that night.

SC: Yes.

DCF: You certainly followed the events on television.

SC: Yes.


DCF: Humm... afterwards you say that on the 17th May you sent an email to Sky News about the description of an individual aged about fifty, humm.... on the 14th May you saw a report at the end of the news which mentioned that Robert Murat had been named a suspect.


SC: Yes (inaudible) I spoke to a Sky reporter, I think it was Ian Woods, hummm...did I write that down there'


DCF: Its here, yes.

SC: Ah yes, yes and afterwards, humm...with Murat well...I just caught a glimpse of him on TV, it was rather my wife who phoned Philomena afterwards who then suggested that we contact the police support service.

DCF: Yes.

SC: And that is what I did, and afterwards the Hertford police contacted us.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Two days later I think.

DCF: Exactly, you phoned the criminal support number and was transferred to the Operational Squad of the Leicestershire Police Force which is where we are working.

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: And we made a request to the local police to collect your statement and it was in this sequence that your statement arrived. It is likely that my papers are not in order because this page is more about the details of the search of the apartments near to Gerry's apartment and mentions the man from the laundry.

SC: Yes, yes.

DCF: And about the searches carried out.

SC: I remember that, yes.

DCF: You spoke to a man who later showed you a garage where there was a bed.

SC: Yes, well what happened was that, Gerry's apartment was here because it was not a flat area, it was more or less like this and that is why the opposite apartments were higher.

DCF: Correct.

SC: That is why it could obviously be seen, these apartments could be looked over from above and all the lower parts and where we, hummm.. this is where the grey haired man was.

DCF: Right.

SC: Who had supposedly acquired a property, and that is why I strongly suggested that we should open the maximum possible number of doors,...I can't remember the name of the man who I also met by chance and who was doing some translating, what was his name again, who helped open the doors.


DCF: Was it John HILL'

SC: No, John Hill was a Mark Warner employee, I can't remember his name, but he...humm also knew the local estate agent and different people who helped to get the keys of the properties from the letters, some of whom were on holiday.

DCF: Yes.

SC: And once the garage door was opened, it was not just a garage for a car, it was a type of "capsule" of about six by nine metres in size which became longer where there was a bed in the corner, and it was when we were searching this, the English man with grey hair whose identity I did not know, but who had explained this to me.


DCF: Yes.

SC: Humm... this garage belonged to a Portuguese man, the man from the laundry.

DCF: Yes.

SC: And when we entered the garage I asked who lived there, he replied that his son lived there and then there were distractions and because I was concentrated on the fifty year old English man, this man is Portuguese, it was only afterwards when I thought later about what we were searching for, it didn't occur to me and I think it is because of this that i mentioned it in my statement two weeks later, because I remember that there had been some distortions.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Of course with Murat there is Murat and the Russian individual, you know....I thought that we might well be looking for the totally wrong person and the fact that a bed existed in the garage and some children's toys.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I thought, ohhh...its worth mentioning this and that's the reason I mentioned it in my statement.
DCF: Fine, now (inaudible) describe the Portuguese man, the laundry man to me, yes'

SC: Yes.
I am certain that I read about this at the beginning, which (inaudible)' I think that afterwards, and afterwards coincides with the fact that he was the man from the laundry and of the van parked there, because as i have already explained, we were here in a small street here above which linked to the main road and to everything beside here on top, the rest was all pathways and I remember that on two or three occasions I thought...this is a dead end road, the van was parked there, I never saw anyone and more than once assumed that it would be cleaning staff and only this thought coincided with the presence of the man from the laundry, and if there were any reply to be made in relation to the link between the van parked there and the laundry man.
DCF: Yes.

SC: Murat here, I think and the laundry thing here.

DCF: Yes

SC: And I would once again give the reason why I mentioned the subject..

DCF: Of what age did the laundry man appear to be'

SC: Humm, I do not remember clearly what I said, but obviously at times Europeans appear older than they are, because of

DCF...(inaudible) the sun.

SC: Yes with the sun, that was what I said in the statement (inaudible).

DCF: I am going to try to locate the first pages where it was mentioned, but there is no description.

SC: Forty five to fifty years old, I think.

DCF: I'm just trying to think what age the man would be, it is difficult to say for the man that I saw, but he would have been of an age that implied that he could have a small child living in the garage or it could be expected that the had a grown up child.

SC: Oh, I think he would have been about, you know.... eighteen years, twenty or twenty two years old to live in the back of a garage because it had large cupboards and other things, but to live in a garage would mean that he had to be eighteen or more, because of a question of safety and because it was not the best way to live.

DCF: No. Then as you say the children's toys seemed to you to be out of context'

SC: Yes, yes.

DCF: Yes.

SC: Yes, mainly because I would think of someone aged eighteen or slightly more.

DCF: And then the Mark Warner staff, obviously it was after your return when this was still being investigated, the staff had photos of Madeleine that the man handed to an individual called C**** and his girlfriend to be distributed.

SC: Ah ah, yes.

DCF: Its in the part where it mentions that there was a van, and says that it was parked at the back of Robert Murat'' garden, and that you never saw anyone use the van, but you remember that it had something to do with the cleaning staff.

SC: Yes, to transport the bedlinen and towels.

DCF: Yes. It says here that you never saw anyone drive it, you just know that you saw it parked, did you ever notice that it was missing or do you remember always seeing it there'

SC:Humm, no...no it was not always there, I saw it about two or three times.

DCF: OK. And it continues, obviously there are some details about the van and its description in case it would be necessary to come back to this statement. So during the week, you played tennis with Gerry about three times'

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: On Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, it says here that you got on well, that he communicated easily, he was fun, he talked to you about golf which was his favourite sport, that he wanted to improve his tennis during the week. On Sunday or Monday he twisted his ankle, but managed to keep on playing, and on Sunday morning he only played tennis with Kate, that you saw them both playing sport and they passed by you at the bar on the beach and this was Sunday or Monday at about mid day.

SC: Mmm, mmm.

DCF: And you saw both Gerry and Kate at the Tapas Bar on Sunday and afterwards on Thursday in the evening, apart from these occasions you just saw them in passing at the resort and you had no opportunity to get to know Kate'

SC: No.

DCF: OK. Is there anything else that you would like to comment on or talk about in relation to the time that you were in the resort before the police, or before the disappearance of Madeleine'

SC: In relation to the holiday or to something strange that I remember'

DCF: Yes, is there anything in your memory that you think could be significant but that you didn't mention before because you thought it was a bit...

SC: No, no...until that moment it was an extremely enjoyable holiday, I think that we had already been at other Mark Warner resorts and they were more than a complex and because of that all the people in the area were Mark Warner tourists, here it was different because we could meet the same person two or three times a day, others could spend three or four days without seeing them because some were staying at this side and others on the other side and so, you know...we were not...it was not a large holiday centre but this was reasonably normal.

DCF: OK. Do you agree with me putting these questions now'

SC: Yes, that's fine, are they the questions from the police'

DCF: Yes, from the way they are written, I think they are all from the Portuguese police.

SC: OK.

DCF: Because sometimes translations are a bit different.

SC: OK.

DCF: However, I think there are no questions from Gerry and Kate that would be necessary to ask you, as I have stated previously, there are other interrogations where that was necessary.

SC: Oh.

DCF: Fine, on what day between the 28th April and 3rd May did you meet Gerry McCann and Kate Healy, I think this has already been mentioned in the statement that we have just gone through.

SC: Yes, yes.

DCF: However I am going to read this and you do not have to reply again. How frequently would you meet up between the 28th April and 3rd May and once again we have just been through this.

SC: From there onwards.

DCF: Oh yes, not from there, it was even before Madeleine disappeared. Did you see them with Madeleine and the other two children'
.
SC: Humm...I don't remember what I said in my statement, I am not sure about this because when I think about the past, and I know that he was playing tennis and I imagine something different, that's why...humm I can't specify hours and dates.

DCF: Ok. If you can remember the occasion upon which you saw them, how was the children's behaviour'.

SC: Humm. I can't reply because I was not concentrating on this type of thing, that's why...hmmm, I cannot even reply to this.

DCF: No, but I was thinking from the point of view of common sense, after the disappearance of Madeleine, any doubt that you could have had.

SC: Oh, after the disappearance'

DCF: No, what I was thinking here was that after her disappearance, you would probably have reflected upon whether you saw anything.

SC: Hummm... I remember talking to Gerry, because I had to go and fetch I*** and they were playing in the small garden and he was (inaudible), I***** and I thought it was Maddie, I am not absolutely sure but, he seemed to me to be a decent type, a good father, affectionate with his children, very easy to talk to, very good with the children, with a comfortable manner even when talking to I**** about little things, completely dedicated to the children.

DCF: OK, I'm certain that if there were anything strange in his behaviour, you would certainly remember that.

SC: Yes, certainly.

DCF: Did you see either of them in a car'

SC: See either of whom'

DCF: I think this refers to the McCann family, did you ever see them in a car'

SC: Humm, during that week'

DCF: Mmm, mmm.

SC: I think not.

DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry on the Thursday 3rd May, obviously this was the day when Madeleine disappeared already mentioned in your statement.

SC: Yes, in the restaurant, yes.

DCF: Do you remember if you saw them before the evening'

SC: Humm... I think that we played tennis during the afternoon on Thursday.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I'm not certain, I remember that it was on Thursday that there were four individuals with whom we used to share the tennis courts, and I think that I mentioned this in my statement, I would say that it was on Thursday that we played tennis and I think that this was what we talked about in the Tapas bar.

DCF: OK, do you have any idea of what time you played tennis with Gerry'

SC: Humm... from two to four or from two until any time in the afternoon, I remember it coincided with leaving the kids in the crèche and picking them up.

DCF: OK, and it asks here what his behaviour was like on Thursday, 3rd May'

SC: His behaviour during the day or'

DCF: On all the occasions that you saw him.

SC: Always very good.

DCF: When did you realise that Madeleine had disappeared, you have already said that it was on the following day.

SC: On Friday morning.

DCF: And you took part in the searches as you have already described. Did you see Kate or Gerald after Madeleine's disappearance'

SC: Yes.

DCF: When'

SC: Hummm, the first time was when I introduced Robert Murat to Gerry, I think that he was alone at that moment...humm, or Kate was there, I'm not sure, but afterwards I saw him on Saturday before returning home, but thinking of the time on Friday morning when I introduced Murat, I think that I did not see him again until Saturday.

DCF: OK and the next question is what was their reaction and I think this means their reaction to Madeleine not being there'
.
SC: Destroyed, like any father or mother would be.

DCF: At what time did you arrive at the Tapas restaurant on 3rd May (inaudible)'

SC: At seven, I think at seven, yes.

DCF: Yes and you say that Kate and Gerald arrived at about half past eight, what was the theme of the conversation'

SC: I think it was just holiday chat, I think that we talked about our tennis and the good and bad aspects.
DCF: And who else was at the restaurant, well.... you have already referred to this in your statement.

SC: Yes.

DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry leave the table before you'

SC: (Inaudible).

DCF: I think that this means the coming and going of people during the evening.

SC: Yes, I remember that people would absent themselves intermittently at different times, but I did not know why.

DCF: no.

SC: But as we discovered later, it was to check on the children.

DCF: And I imagine that your attention was directed towards your family and (inaudible).

SC: Yes, because we obviously had our two with us and we were on this side of the table, the single man with three small children was here and I****was playing with them, so we were more or less a group if you would like to call it that, of which they were a part, I think that all the ten members were there and some of us would speak to others here and on the other side of the table.

DCF: At what time did you leave the Tapas bar'

SC: I think it was at about half past nine.

DCF: I think that is what you said.

SC: Yes.

DCF: And you were accompanied, you replied that you were with your children and your wife. Where did you go afterwards, it says here...before going back to your apartment, can you describe the route you took'

SC: Directly to the apartment.

DCF: Did you see anyone outside the Tapas Bar or outside the apartments'

SC: If I saw anyone outside the Tapas bar or, hummm.. on the way home presumably'

DCF: Yes, is there anyone you remember that night, did you see anyone in the area'

SC: No.

DCF: At what time did you go to bed'

SC: Almost immediately, we put the children to bed because it was already quite late for them, humm... about half past ten, yes, about half past ten (inaudible).

DCF: And that's it, those were the questions.

SC: OK.

DCF: So I would say there were no surprises. Is there anything else that you think we should talk about'

SC: Hummm, no I think that's all, I spoke about Murat, hummm, about the meeting, no there is nothing more to add.

DCF: OK. Lets check with Eleanor to see if we have missed anything.

DCF leaves the interrogation room.
DCF enters the interrogation room.

DCF: No and I cannot think of anything else so we can close the interrogation.

SC: Fine.

DCF: It is 11.10, although my watch does not have numbers, so this is an approximate time.

SC: OK. And the interrogation ends here, I'm sure that Eleanor will unplug the recorder in the next room.

SC: Fine, ok.

DCF: Now we just need to write...the CD stopped and began again showing the time as 10.38.10.
....................

IMPORTANT NOTE:

People the McCanns wanted interviewed or re-interviewed by rogatory

Group 2 (independent customers and employees of the Ocean Club who saw the behavior of Kate and Gerry on the day of the disappearance):

Dan Smith, with address at ...> (Ocean Club, c / o Mark Warner)
Steve Carpenter, with address at ...> (Ware, Herts) (0,781,577 ####)
Carolyn Carpenter, with address at ...> (Ware, Herts)
Jeremy Wilkins, with address at ...> (London)
Catriona Baker, with address at ...> (Surrey) (0,785,823 ####)