Pedro do Carmo: "Maddie's parents are not suspects. Period."

by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



In an interview with Expresso newspaper, the deputy director of the Judiciary Police, Pedro do Carmo, argues that no police in the world could guarantee results different from those obtained so far in Portugal in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

"We had never had and did not have a similar case again"

By Hugo Franco

I's a ten year old mystery that still divides the public opinion and intrigues the Portuguese and English authorities that investigate the case. What happened to Madeleine Beth McCann, the 4-year-old English girl who disappeared from the Ocean Club apartment in Praia da luz (Lagos) on the night of May 3, 2007 - 10 years ago the next Wednesday? The Judiciary Police (PJ) has some suspicions and a certainty: it was not the parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, who harmed to the child born in Leicester.

In September 2007, the McCanns were constituted as arguidos by the the Portuguese Justice but in the following year the case was closed for lack of evidence. It was reopened by the PJ in 2013 and continues to be investigated simultaneously with Scotland Yard. To this day, however, despite hundreds of leads and sightings of Maddie, no one was charged or convicted and the girl, who would have been 14 years old, has never been found.

Until the process was archived in 2008, there were three lines of investigation by the Judiciary Police on the case. Hypothesis 1: the parents accidentally killed their daughter and then concealed the body. Hypothesis 2: Maddie was abducted by a group linked to the trafficking of minors and sold for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Hypothesis 3: The child was killed following an abduction that went wrong.

Did the reopening of the case in 2013 open up more investigative lines than the three that were followed at that time?

I cannot speak about the investigation. What I can say is that the PJ remains convinced that there are elements that can still be worked and that can lead to some results. If it is not possible to achieve this result, at least we want to get some answers to the many questions that the case generates. Ultimately, to get to a point where the PJ concludes that there is nothing more that can be done to answer those questions.

Did Scotland Yard's entry into action in the case back in 2011 delivered results?

Since they've also decided to open an investigation, the contacts between the PJ and Metropolitan Police have been regular. There has been a constant exchange of information, which has been positive. This exchange of information remains. It can even be said that the relationship between the two police forces is of great proximity and great collaboration.

The reconstruction of the night of May 3, 2007, as the PJ investigators initially intended, with the presence of the McCanns and their English friends at the scene (that never happened due to the group's lack of willingness to return to Praia da Luz) would it have been essential to better understand what happened to the English girl?

I do not want to talk about what happened up to 2008. This has been sufficiently debated at its appropriate place.

Any idea how many people were heard in total in this case?

No. But certainly several hundred people.

Ten years on after the events at Praia da Luz, why do you think the case is still so much debated?

First because there was a deliberate and legitimate effort on the part of the child's parents in keeping the issue on the agenda of the media. But there are also other elements, such as the circumstances of the disappearance. Ten years later we still do not know what happened, which makes it possible to say, at least in relation to Portugal, that this is a unique case. We had never had one, and we did not have a similar case again. There were other cases of disappearances of children where it was not possible to bring the perpetrators to justice. But in those cases we either caught someone or it was possible for the police to understand what had happened. In this case we are not yet in a position to say what is behind the disappearance. This makes it a unique case. And maybe an extremely rare case worldwide.

Do you hope to know the truth about what happened on the night of May 3, 2007 in Praia da Luz?

Of course that's what motivates us. It is that hope that keeps us working on the investigation.

As you said in a recent interview, the Maddie case is a thorn on the side of the Judiciary Police?

Although I have used this expression into the conversation, it is not the term 'thorn on the side'. It is in the DNA of the Judiciary Police to solve all the crimes that as a duty to investigate. Whenever this does not happen it is something that will not leave us, and can not leave us, satisfied. We are very demanding with our work. In this case, we are not satisfied and remain committed to resolve the case.

Is the PJ still learning from this case ten years on?

We like to learn from every case and we also want to learn from this one. But only after we know what has happened will we be able to draw conclusions from it: understand what we have done well and less well. And we have not yet reached that point. We want to learn lessons from it in its due time.

The English media again insinuates that Portugal continues to be a country that cannot solve a case of this dimension. But the British police have not done better. Can the English public opinion change since Scotland Yard has not been successful, either?

We are not insensitive to others' opinions but our responsibility and commitment is with our fellow citizens. The Portuguese have every reason to be proud and trust their Judiciary Police, which proves on a daily basis its capacity, effectiveness and competence. Difficult cases exist in all countries. The results sometimes take time to arrive and this is also true for all countries. Our expectation is that there is a capacity for everyone to understand that this is so. No police anywhere in the world could guarantee different results.

So would a case like this one have the same results today anywhere else in the world?

I would not say it would have the same results. I would say is that in a case like this one there would be no guarantee of having different results anywhere else in the world. No police in any part of the world could guarantee different results, up to this moment, from those the Judiciary has achieved.

Would the PJ have done something different today in this investigation?

That is a conclusion that we can only reach after the moment we know what has happened or have reached a point where it is not possible to do anything more to clarify the case. And we have not yet reached that point.

Do you think it was a mistake to have the McCann couple constituted as arguidos in September 2007?

Obviously, I will not answer that question. But what I can say, just as I did back in 2011 and 2013, is that Maddie's parents are not suspects. That statement remains: the parents are not suspects. Period.

in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sorry, but the timing of this news is so utterly disrespectful to Maddie.

They must have known what they were going to say yet left it til the 10th Anniversary.

Madeleine McCann questioning shocked suspect
By Richard Bilton Reporter, BBC Panorama

One of the suspects questioned by British police about Madeleine McCann's disappearance has said he was shocked to be asked about how she went missing.

Paulo Ribeiro was one of four local suspects who denied any involvement when questioned by British detectives.

"I thought it was incredible," he said.

The men were questioned in connection with Scotland Yard's theory that the three-year-old was taken in a burglary that went wrong but were never charged with any offence.

It is 10 years to the day since Madeleine disappeared from the McCanns' holiday apartment at the Ocean Club complex in the Portuguese resort of Praia Da Luz.



The British investigation into the case was started in 2011 at the request of the then Prime Minister David Cameron. It has cost more than £11m.

• [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
  
• [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
  
• [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
  

The four men, who were questioned in 2014, were made official suspects and are still living in Praia Da Luz.

Mr Ribeiro said: "I knew of nothing when the police arrived at my door with a piece of paper that had a drawing on it, saying it bore a likeness to me and that someone had said I was involved and that I looked like the person who had kidnapped Maddie.

"I don't know who that person was."

He said he was at home on the night that Madeleine disappeared and that he was not involved in any burglaries.

The Portuguese police clearly believe the men know nothing about what happened.

Pedro do Carma, deputy director of the Policia Judiciaria, told Panorama he had never considered them to be suspects.
"I can only say that we questioned those people on request of the Metropolitan Police and only based on the request of the Metropolitan Police.
"We never questioned those people. We never saw or looked at those people as suspects of the crime."
Last week, Scotland Yard announced there was no evidence to implicate the four men and the case against them had been closed.
The Met say they are pursuing new lines of inquiry and that they have not ruled out the burglary theory.
But many in Portugal are sceptical about the Met's involvement.
Carlos Anjos, the former head of the Policia Judiciaria officers' union, has told Panorama that the British investigation has been a waste of money.
"This burglary theory is absurd. Not even a wallet disappeared, no television disappeared, nothing else disappeared. A child disappeared."
The BBC Panorama programme - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - is on BBC1 at 9pm Wednesday and available on iPlayer afterwards.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So, all future suspects of crimes in Portugal take note. You can give a statement, if it claims something that's impossible you can simply contradict it and give another stating something entirely different. Don't fret about having witnesses who also contradict each other and you. If by any chance, you are being questioned about the disappearance of someone who lived with you and whom you were the last person to see, don't panic if their blood is discovered in the house. Equally, don't panic if EVRD dogs alert to cadaver odour in that location, on you clothes or in your car. You WONT be a suspect in Portugal, especially if you're a British doctor. You have that from the horse's mouth.

This is exactly what Goncalo said - the parents did not harm Maddie.   He was of the belief an accident befell her.

I've never heard of this Pedro do Carmo before so thought I would have a poke about for some information.  The first thing I found was this - also from Joana Morais..


Judiciary irritated at British government
by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]   [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  



The English decision to reopen the Maddie case is generating controversy and ill being within the Portuguese Judiciary Police (PJ), even with officers that recall that “the English are not better than the Portuguese”.

The English Prime Minister, David Cameron, decided to have the investigation into the Maddie case reopened, but PJ officers point out that “the English need authorization from the Portuguese authorities to investigate in our country, because they do not have competence to act in Portugal”.

Some high-ranking officers of the British police have equally criticized this decision, arguing that the money that is to be spent is more necessary for other cases. This situation has even been criticized by Lord Harris, a member of the Metropolitan Police, who peremptorily states: "It again embroils their officers in a high-profile investigation, where the chances of success are unclear, and which will divert limited investigative resources away from other matters."

In fact, some 30 English detectives and many million pounds will be involved in the reopening of the investigation into the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve. The English decision was made after the child’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, sent a letter to the English Prime Minister, David Cameron, in which they asked for a review of the case.

According to members of the PJ that were contacted by O Diabo, the reopening of this case questions “the professionalism of our officers, who did everything that was possible to solve the child’s disappearance”, recalling that the English policemen are not better than our own.

Our sources recall that, despite “us having good criminal investigation labs”, a political decision was made to have the tests carried out in English labs, launching the suspicion over whether or not they were manipulated. “We let the English do everything that they want”, they say, recalling that this case “suffered various political influences, due to the missing child’s parents’ social and political status”.

The officers that were contacted by O Diabo recognize that “some mistakes were made in the investigation, namely inside the apartment”, but they recall, in defence of their honour, that there are many identical cases that remain unsolved in England.

The Judiciary Police – they reveal – had already been warned that the Scotland Yard had the intention to analyse the case again. This does not mean, however, that the criminal process, which is under the Public Ministry’s tutelage, will be reopened. This process may be picked up again if new facts that contribute to the investigation’s development are discovered.

PJ Available

Contrary to the general feelings within the PJ, Pedro do Carmo, joint national director at the Judiciary Police, cited by “I” newspaper, states that the PJ is available to cooperate in this case, and committed to finding out the “credible, consistent and relevant factors that may contribute to clarify what happened to Madeleine McCann”.

Meanwhile, British newspaper “The Telegraph” reports that some of the officers that are involved in the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann, four years ago in Praia da Luz, are close to retirement or about to present a voluntary leave, stressing that the English investigators will face major difficulties, because the documents are nearly all in Portuguese.

When the little girl disappeared, on the 3rd of May, 2007, Leicestershire police helped the Portuguese police in the investigation, but in July 2008, the case was archived. Until last week, precisely when Maddie’s mother, Kate McCann, published a book, the Scotland Yard decided to restart the investigation, after the British Prime Minister, David Cameron, intervened.

In her recently published book, Kate McCann, with the purpose to collect money for the “find Madeleine” fund, harshly criticises the Portuguese police system. Kate mentions the slowness that followed the first hours of Maddie’s disappearance, and the proposal that was made by the PJ, for the child’s mother to confess to concealing her daughter’s body, after her death, which was caused by an accident in the apartment in Praia da Luz. She says that this offer was an attempt by the Judiciary Police to make the sentence more benevolent.

In her book, Kate also tells about her suffering and the depression after her daughter’s disappearance, about her suicidal tendencies and the problems that she experienced in her marriage to Gerry.

The book was launched yesterday (May 23rd) in Lisbon, edited in Portugal by Edições Asa, from the Leya group, and by Transworld Publishers in the United Kingdom.

in: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], paper edition only

Pedro do Carmo was asked:

Do you think it was a mistake to have the McCann couple constituted as arguidos in September 2007?

Obviously, I will not answer that question. But what I can say, just as I did back in 2011 and 2013, is that Maddie's parents are not suspects. That statement remains: the parents are not suspects. Period.


IMO, his response is merely a guarded statement of fact in terms of the meaning of the term 'arguido' or official suspect, which was lifted due to insufficient (not lack of) evidence. The McCanns are not suspects in official Portuguese terms, but the PJ have made it clear that the arguido status can be re-instated if sufficient new evidence is found.

Note, do Carmo does not state that it was a mistake making the McCanns arguidos, whereas he is quite clear in his comments to Panorama about the 4 Portuguese locals who were also made arguidos during the investigations:

Pedro do Carma, deputy director of the Policia Judiciaria, told Panorama he had never considered them to be suspects.
"I can only say that we questioned those people on request of the Metropolitan Police and only based on the request of the Metropolitan Police.
"We never questioned those people. We never saw or looked at those people as suspects of the crime."


Unfortunately, I suspect his response about the Mccanns will be used out of context.

Off topic - just been watching Jenny and Robert Murat being interviewed on BBC news. Jenny brought up the woman in purple and a car being driven at speed up past the entrance to the tapas reception, by what looked like an 'English' man.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], if you look at the original article do Carma says the parents are not 'suspeitos' rather than 'arguidos'. To me that reads that he does not suspect the parents in any way, otherwise he would have said they are not currently arguidos.
I have to say I'm shocked and confused by this news. To say this ten years on, at this time, it will definitely be picked up by the UK papers and appear over here. What is the agenda here?

The parents have not been cleared.

They don't currently have the status of arguido. 

It's as simple as that.

As you were.

Just how credible is this Oporto investigation? The official investigation was in Portimao and they have always avoided and denied working alongside Operation Grange.  Is this Oporto investigation an official one or just another bunch of retired cops? What do we know about Pedro do Carmo?

PeterMac says we're to ignore this.

But I won't elaborate further.

Darn it, I was just about to delete CMOMM and go and get a life too.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:PeterMac says we're to ignore this.

But I won't elaborate further.

Thanks GEG.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Darn it, I was just about to delete CMOMM and go and get a life too.

I know I don't know you but big love to you for doing what you do - and for keeping on doing what you do.

You are appreciated.

MrsC wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Darn it, I was just about to delete CMOMM and go and get a life too.

I know I don't know you but big love to you for doing what you do - and for keeping on doing what you do.

You are appreciated.

I second that!

It's worth remembering Alison Saunders,  Director of Public Prosecutions and Jenny Hopkins, of the Complex Case Unit  went to Lisbon in June 2013 for secret discussions with the Oporto team headed up
by senior investigator, Helen Monteiro. There is an interesting thread on Saunders here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Was the Portimao investigation taken away and given to Lisbon, or are there two investigations going on? This is the crux of the matter as far as I can see, and might explain mixed messages.

In other news, is Socrates - to whom Gordon Brown allegedly spoke about the McCann case just prior to Amaral being booted out - still under house arrest awaiting trial for fraud?

Thank you both  

Last night I felt like pulling the plug in disgust.
But then I got out of the bath and went to bed instead.

And this morning there's PeterMac...and all's well again.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Thank you both  

Last night I felt like pulling the plug in disgust.
But then I got out of the bath and went to bed instead.

And this morning there's PeterMac...and all's well again.

It is difficult to keep the faith, and I think everyone here feels the same...will it ever end! 

It may not be a question you can answer, but do you think we will be going over the same old on the 20th anniversary?

princess_leia wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Thank you both  

Last night I felt like pulling the plug in disgust.
But then I got out of the bath and went to bed instead.

And this morning there's PeterMac...and all's well again.

It is difficult to keep the faith, and I think everyone here feels the same...will it ever end! 

It may not be a question you can answer, but do you think we will be going over the same old on the 20th anniversary?

No.

Nor the 11th.

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

princess_leia wrote:

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Thank you both  

Last night I felt like pulling the plug in disgust.
But then I got out of the bath and went to bed instead.

And this morning there's PeterMac...and all's well again.

It is difficult to keep the faith, and I think everyone here feels the same...will it ever end! 

It may not be a question you can answer, but do you think we will be going over the same old on the 20th anniversary?

No.

Nor the 11th.

WOW! Ok

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Thank you both  

Last night I felt like pulling the plug in disgust.
But then I got out of the bath and went to bed instead.

And this morning there's PeterMac...and all's well again.

It's not only extremely time consuming, but emotionally and mentally draining too. I am both grateful and in awe of the dedication you have exhibited day in and day out, for so many years now, to insure we all have a place to meet up any time day and night, to discuss all aspects of this case. A place where we can share our deepest frustrations concerning the vile efforts by the UK Govt to hide the facts and extinguish the McCanns culpability.

Thank you so much Jilly!

+1 pennylane

Do Carmo's statement, even if veiled, makes me blush for the Portuguese. Consider an alternative scenario. A bunch of Portuguese doctors go for a weeks break to Cornwall, keen surfers all. They hire a row of cottages along a town street through their tour operator. They decide to dine in a restaurant 150 m from one of the cottages. Despite a free night creche service they opt to leave their babies and toddlers unsupervised. One couple even leaves the door to the main street unlocked and they check on the kids from time to time. A child vanishes. The parents claim abduction, having allowed people to trample through the scene. Local police are joined by the serious crime squad. The Portuguese Dr.s don't join the searches for their child but contact friends in the media and gov. back home. By the following morning the "abduction" is leading the international news despite British police doubts. The Portuguese send their embassy staff to Cornwall, including their ambassador. A group of Portuguese police officers rush over to the scene to assist the investigation. The President of Portugal publicly announces his support for the child's parents, contacts Mrs. May and demands to be kept informed of progress. Later, he places his own media manager at the parents disposal to "monitor what comes out in the media". British police are suspicious of claims made by the parents which cannot possibly be true. Realizing this, the parents contradict their sworn evidence and all the witnesses contradict them and each other. Dogs are sent for. They alert to cadaver odour in the missing child's apartment, on her parents clothes and in their car. Blood is found which initial forensic reports say are a match for the missing child. Meanwhile the parents refuse to answer questions, publicly criticize the useless British "pie - munching" police and hire private investigators to do the job the Brits obviously can't manage. The British question the parents under caution. Two days later they flee the country and refuse to return to assist police with a reconstruction. Instead they hire lawyers with top expertise in fighting extradition requests. The Portuguese prime minister requests that the lead British investigator is removed from the case, despite his excellent track record. The next few years sees the Portuguese press ridiculing the British police. The Portuguese gov. sets up its own investigation which eventually costs the Portuguese tax-payers 15 million euro but, after a decade, their investigation gets no further than the original British one which they very publicly belittled. Does anyone think that in this scenario the deputy head of the C.P.S. would be announcing that the Portuguese parents are not suspects - period?

I suppose the Police also have to keep in mind Kate's "Push the button and we're all gone" quote.

Their stress levels must be at an all time high, losing finally in Portugal, contemplating GA counter-suing, no money left in the fund, Tracey K writing articles which attract revulsion,
several papers writing nonsense but allowing un-moderated comments, and leaving them on line, hundreds at a time, with almost none supportive at any level . . .
Two children now reaching an age when they can read and begin to research, and ask questions, and detect untruths when told by their parents - as we all did
(Father Christmas, tooth fairy, where babies come from etc etc, we all worked it out, though it was the elephant in the room, and we never let on that we knew)
They LOST their first born child.   They are undoubtedly grieving, but have never allowed themselves 'closure'.

So for the Police in either country to say they are suspects might well push the fragile Kate (on her own admission capable of physically violent outrage) over the edge.

by Get'emGonçalo Today at 10:49 am

I suppose the Police also have to keep in mind Kate's "Push a button and we're ALL gone"
------------------------------------------

And her 'ALL wiped out in a car crash'

just to 'quote' correctly:

Kate McCann 'I just want to press a button, and we're all gone, and it's all finished, and we're all together and gone, whatever'

KM said: "I used to have thoughts like, we'll get wiped out in the car on the motorway. So it would just happen, we'd all be gone, and the pain would be away."

Read more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Q51: How would you be 'all together' if Madeleine's still 'alive' in her secret 'lair' and you've 'pressed a button and GONE' Kate?

A: 'Whatever'

If OG's remit is to prove the McCann's innocent and stick with the abduction only theory, then surely the McCann's know that. There couldn't be a cover-up without their knowledge IMO. How else can they be so confident, and castigate all those who dare to disbelieve them? I can't help thinking that they are all 'working' together to their own agreed resolution of the case which will be tailored to fit whatever their favourite story is. however ridiculous it may be, and it will, doubtless be just that: ridiculous. All in my opinion.

Oh dear

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

To be a 'suspect' in Portugal, do you not have to have Arguido status?

I will never forget how Olgario de Sousa of the PJ publicly stated the McCanns were not suspects, only for them to be declared suspects shortly thereafter!