Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

by princess_leia 22.03.17 9:19

I have a question re Murat

Why would JT identify RM if he was involved?

by princess_leia 22.03.17 9:39

June wrote:The following concerns the design of the so called make-up photo.

Here is the famous clip with GM laughing an the balcony. Below is a still of that clip, where we can see the uper side of a balcony chair (to be researched) which has a similar colour to the element we see on the ride side of the make-photo.

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If you look at the image with GM, I don't believe it's a chair as in balcony furniture, because of it's height in comparison to GM, of course it could be the angle, it just looks too tall. I would say balcony furniture like the plastic chairs are no more than waist height. So I'm not sure the image with MM has the same blue item in the background.

I really dislike this picture of Madeleine, it gives me the shivers, and in my opinion she was 'made up' particularly the eyeliner, it's too precise.

by **Jill Havern** 22.03.17 9:45

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I'm not sure these two 'chair's are even the same. The one Maddie is sitting on has a design at the top whereas the other one in the clip with Gerry doesn't seem to have....?

by princess_leia 22.03.17 9:52

Get'emGonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not sure these two 'chair's are even the same. The one Maddie is sitting on has a design at the top whereas the other one in the clip with Gerry doesn't seem to have....?

I don't think the one with Gerry is a chair, and I wouldn't even say Madeleine is sitting on that chair.
I've been looking for images of their balcony from 2007 just to see what it is, but can't find anything.

Is this 100% their apartment that this still of Gerry has been taken from?

by **Jill Havern** 22.03.17 9:57

princess_leia wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not sure these two 'chair's are even the same. The one Maddie is sitting on has a design at the top whereas the other one in the clip with Gerry doesn't seem to have....?
I don't think the one with Gerry is a chair, and I wouldn't even say Madeleine is sitting on that chair.
I've been looking for images of their balcony from 2007 just to see what it is, but can't find anything.

Is this 100% their apartment that this still of Gerry has been taken from?

No...she does seem to be sitting a bit off-side doesn't she?

by princess_leia 22.03.17 10:16

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
princess_leia wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not sure these two 'chair's are even the same. The one Maddie is sitting on has a design at the top whereas the other one in the clip with Gerry doesn't seem to have....?
I don't think the one with Gerry is a chair, and I wouldn't even say Madeleine is sitting on that chair.
I've been looking for images of their balcony from 2007 just to see what it is, but can't find anything.

Is this 100% their apartment that this still of Gerry has been taken from?

No...she does seem to be sitting a bit off-side doesn't she?

Perhaps, I'm not sure, maybe sitting forward on the edge of the chair?

I believe the picture is more recent that what they claimed it be by the length of her hair, her hair was a bit more than shoulder length in the 'last photo' and in this pic it falls a little bit longer because of the angle of her head.

by **sharonl** 05.06.20 23:27

Bumping this thread for the benefit of new members.

by Milo 06.06.20 3:10

My impression of the blue "thing" to Madeleine's left in the make-up photo is that it is the right shoulder of a person in a blue shirt propping her up. And the blue vertical line on the blue thing (shirt) is the crease of shirt/person at shoulder. But it probably doesn't matter anymore because I don't believe the truth is going to come out. Too many forces against it. But why??? I just don't get it. It is a wonder that those of you who have delved so deep have not gone crazy.

by Eastree27 06.06.20 19:12

Would photo above not be taken at the temporary apartment they got moved to on the 4th May rather than 5A. As all the apartments were privately owned and just rented by Mark Warner the furniture might be similar but not identical.

by **sharonl** 08.06.21 21:51

Just looking at this video and I begin to wonder if the night that the McCanns are referring to is actually the Sunday. Some who have seen the clip at 2.33 seem to think that the McCanns are lying as the Tapas was booked for the week. If the McCanns are referring to the Thursday, then yes, they would be lying because they had been at the Tapas every night apart from Saturday having secured a booking for the week.

They say that they almost did not go, they didn't know if they would get into the tapas that night and thought about going back to the Millenium.

Surely, they are not talking about May 3rd after they'd been to the Tapas all week. Their comments just don't fit with that.

The only way that these comments could make any sense would be if they were referring to a time before the Tapas booking had been made, i.e Sunday.

Maybe I am wrong but have this pair got themselves in a knot and forgotten themselves here?

by **PeterMac** 08.06.21 22:15

YES.
More work needed.
This maybe a very clear "brain dump"

by **crusader** 08.06.21 23:39

In Jane Tanner's rogatory statement she said she had heard on the Thursday morning some people were trying to book the tapas for that night and couldn't get in.

She said it was discussed within the group about going somewhere different that night.

It doesn't explain why Gerry said he wasn't sure if they would get in the tapas that night though.

by **Silentscope** 09.06.21 8:59

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It doesn't explain why Gerry said he wasn't sure if they would get in the tapas that night though.

It does if the block booking story is a fake.

Gerrys body language afterwards looks like ‘oh crap, I hope nobody notices that’ and he tries too hard to appear relaxed as if nothing has happened.

But it has.

by **sharonl** 20.10.23 22:08

Just bumping for new members/readers

by **crusader** 20.10.23 22:31

Thanks Sharon

by **crusader** 20.10.23 22:48

It will be interesting to hear a new members view and open up the thread again.

by **CaKeLoveR** 20.10.23 22:52

I appreciate these reminders, there's so much to remember, and this really helps.

by **Tony Bennett** 20.10.23 23:28

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This topic that you revived (and quite right too) is LOCKED - no-one else can contribute to it (not even me):

jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16437-did-madeleine-mccann-die-on-sunday-29-april-four-days-before-she-was-reported-missing-strong-evidence-that-she-did#474624

"Did Madeleine McCannn die on Sunday 29 April four days before she was reported missing? Strong evidence that she did"

Should it now be UNLOCKED?

by **crusader** 21.10.23 7:33

I think it would be a good idea for this topic and other locked threads to be unlocked to let the new members have a say.
There has been quite a few new members joining CMOMM in the past few months who must have something to contribute and who may have a particular interest in certain areas.

by Guest 21.10.23 12:27

You are here, an open thread for all to comment on the subject matter..

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The locked thread bumped last evening is here..

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You will note the introductory research paper is the same on both threads - no need to unlock this.

Threads are locked for good reason, primarily because they are considered to be of importance, enough to warrant their own place on the forum without being diluted by commentary that invariably leads off topic, as this particular piece of research is thought to be. Or they might be designated 'sticky' for much the same reason - essentially for information rather than general commentary. A thread could be locked for other reasons, like it's played itself out or has become disruptive but this is a very unusual occurrence.

Please be assured there is good reason for everything you see on CMOMM.

New members have their own space to post questions and/or comments if that's their wish, existing members can raise particular issues on any of the existing 'live' threads relative to their interests.

grouphug

by **Silentscope** 21.10.23 13:10

The change to the Tapas bar makes sense if there were any Security or CCTV in or around the Millennium bar, which could be used as Evidence against the Group later on.

Delaying the ‘Dissapearence’ a few days would increase the likelihood that any Video would be overwritten or lost.

Kate’s emotional connection to this ‘Crying incident’ leads me to believe it actually happened, but was on the First night when Madeleine woke up, and found no one there in the Apartment to comfort her or the twins.

This was later retro fitted into the ‘Official narrative’ after Madeleine was later found behind the Sofa.
She regrets not having listened to her.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It doesn't explain why Gerry said he wasn't sure if they would get in the tapas that night though.

Silentscope :
This points to Gerry having either briefed Jane to say that, or he was in the Group that discussed it.

But why would a Group of people plan to be somewhere else that night, when they had in advance block booked the Tapas bar? Or be worried that they would not get in when they had a Reservation?

by Guest 21.10.23 13:54

1. The change from the Millennium restaurant to the Tapas bar was a decision made due to the proximity of their accommodation. A reasonable explanation, the complex was new to them, arrive at a destination you've never before been it takes time to get your bearings, any traveler will tell you the same.

2. I doubt holidaymakers would make the location of CCTV (security cameras) a priority on their list of things to do and see. CCTV footage lost or overwritten within a few days - possible but highly unlikely.

3. Kate McCann wasn't emotional about the 'crying incident' she passed it off with a shrug of the shoulders.

4. The first night, Saturday 28th April 2007, the family of five (Kate and Gerry McCann, Madeleine and the twins) ate at the Millennium restaurant - they did not leave the children alone in the apartment on that night.

5. Madeleine wasn't later found behind the sofa, that is conjecture based on forensic evidence. There could be any number of explanations for the detection of bodily fluids and/or scent of death without assuming a corpse was there at any stage.

6. They weren't sure about getting a table at the Tapas restaurant because bookings were routinely taken daily, not block bookings for the length of stay - that much is clearly clarified in the PJ investigation files. It matters not anyway, evidence confirms the group did dine at the Tapas restaurant, leaving their children alone or in a shared apartment every night they went out to eat.

7.

Silentscope wrote: But why would a Group of people plan to be somewhere else that night, when they had in advance block booked the Tapas bar? Or be worried that they would not get in when they had a Reservation?

Eh? Somewhere else that night - what night?

The group dined at the Millennium restaurant on the first night of their arrival, they then decided to book the Tapas restaurant for the remainder of their stay because it was close(ish) to their apartment accommodation. Seems reasonable to me.

by **crusader** 21.10.23 15:18

I believe the crying incident did happen, I believe Mrs Fenn when she said she heard crying from the McCann apartment for over an hour on the Tuesday night and Madeleine told her parents about it on the Wednesday morning.
In the video where Gerry said they thought about not going to the tapas on Thursday evening, He was trying to back Kate up but he hadn't had time to think before he spoke, therefore he gave the game away.
I wonder if they thought about not going to the tapas on the Wednesday night.
Jane is very clear that this conversation happened on the Thursday morning, which is unusual because most of the time she can't remember what happened on a certain day.

by **Silentscope** 21.10.23 15:39

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1. Plausible.

2. CCTV Would only become important to someone creating a diversion plan once a body had been found. It would have to be a risk to them or their Storyline.

3. She looks emotional on the Hideho video posted up thread by Sharoni [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Time 00:56 refers.

4. Ok. That points to Madeleine being alive to be able to make that Crying statement at the earliest on Sunday morning.

5. Implausible. The Forensic evidence found behind the Sofa has never been fully discounted. No one else died in that Apartment. Who else could supply an 88% DNA match with the missing person?

6. Where and what is this evidence that any block bookings would have been refused, and bookings were only taken daily?

7. The night of the ‘Dissapearance’ is what I assume Gerry is talking about in the Video. Sharoni is also confused it seems.

I do agree that the earliest Date Madeleine could have died was Sunday.

by **Silentscope** 22.10.23 7:13

It is reported that the first two nights the Families and their Children all attended the Millennium Restaurant.

Madeleine was with them.

If correct and not Press lies, this would mean the earliest she could have possibly Died would have been Sunday night or Monday early morning?

Source:
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by **Tony Bennett** 22.10.23 8:12

I am so very sad to see that some on here still believe the alleged 'crying incident' on the Tuesday night. I spent dozens of hours on here on examining in great detail Mrs Fenn's statement - made over three months after Madeleine was reported missing - and demonstrating that it was a fabrication. Mrs Fenn was used - and she herself admitted that her statement was "all rubbish". For anyone on here who has an open mind about the alleged crying incident, please go and have a thorough look at all the FENN threads on here. Besides that, all the evidence surrounding the Last Photo and the absence of any photos of Madeleine taken after Sunday afternoon proves she was not alive after then. Further, the evidence that the rushed booking of the Millennium on Sunday evening was done because Madeleine was already dead by then is very strong.

by **Silentscope** 22.10.23 9:00

There are a lot of things that point to Tuesday night Tony.

Kate’s book never mentioned the ‘Chekaya incident’ and she claims that it was Gerry, not her that returned to the Apartment.

The PJ Final report writes:

Mrs Fenn, the McCann's neighbour, reported that Madeleine had cried for her father between 22.30 and 23.45. The evidence shows that Kate McCann was in Apartment 5A 14 minutes before Madeleine started crying. Tuesday 1st May 2007 is the only night (except, of course, for Thursday 3rd May 2007) that either of the McCanns or any of their friends made calls after dinner.

Mrs McCann volunteered to the PJ that on the night of Wednesday 2nd May 2007, she had slept in the spare bed in her children's room because her husband had not paid her enough attention over dinner. Or put another way, does she mean the amorous Scot was paying someone else (like Miss Chekeya) too much attention, causing her to stomp out of the Tapas Bar before him: ultimately leading to the spare bed in a strop? Gerald McCann said he thought the reason his wife had slept in the children's bedroom was because of his snoring and that he did not even bother asking her the following morning what the problem was.

Could it be that their timings are wrong by 24 hours and that Kate McCann's nocturnal shenanigans took place on the night of Tuesday 1st May 2007? It would fit, but why be untruthful about it? A possible reason is that they wanted to conceal both Kate McCann's state of mind and the fact that she had returned to Apartment 5A, just before Madeleine's cried for help.

Source:
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by **PeterMac** 22.10.23 9:26

Sharon has just bumped the thread

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by **sharonl** 22.10.23 9:28

Silentscope

There are many things that do point to the night of May 3rd and the main reason for this is that the McCanns' and their friends wanted us al to believe that Madeleine actually did disappear on that night, whilst they were out, hence giving themselves an alibi.

Have you the documentary, "When Madeleine died?" it is well worth watching if you haven't

22.10.2023

by **crusader** 22.10.23 9:32

The above post mentioning "some on here still believe the 'alleged crying incident' is clearly aimed at me .
Kate confirmed it happened because Madeleine told her she was crying, whether this was the Tuesday or Wednesday is debateable, if Mrs Fenn said it was Tuesday I believe her.
This, snipped from 10 reasons which suggest that Pamela Fenn did not hear any child crying on 1 May 2007 is missleading.

Angry at the journalists' questions, Mrs Fenn denied being a witness in the case and said that what the press were saying was ‘pure speculation’.

10. Mrs Fenn herself was interviewed for the programme and said that anything she was supposed to have said to the police was ‘rubbish’.

“Honestly, I have... I know nothing. I have been here three months. [She means: ‘This happened three months ago’. Mrs [b>Fenn had lived I Praia da Luz for years] Until all this happened, I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in the newspapers. I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighing)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it”. ]

Mrs Fenn was talking about what the press had written about her, saying it was all rubbish and was not referring to her statement.