The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?

joyce1938 wrote:Something I have noticed for first time of 3 pictures of Maddie , the left hand one ,taken I believe in Playground soon after  she arrived . Can anyone else see in her hair ,as if very small thin plaits around in her hair

I've looked really really hard at this picture and I can see no plaits, not even the thinnest possible, in MBM's hair.
Am I looking at the correct photo? The one upthread taken at playground in PDL ?

Roxyroo ,yes that's the one ,I just see a different consistence ,between the hair and so skinny plaits ? Hardly noticeable I must admit ,never seen it before  that way , maybe its my eyes or glasses.  joyce1938

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Same day, same location, same Madeleine.  She was energetically playing so her hair is tousled.

joyce1938 wrote:Something I have noticed for first time of 3 pictures of Maddie , the left hand one ,taken I believe in Playground soon after  she arrived . Can anyone else see in her hair ,as if very small thin plaits around in her hair

Are you seeing thin braids towards the back oh her head and to the right?

joyce1938 wrote:Something I have noticed for first time of 3 pictures of Maddie , the left hand one ,taken I believe in Playground soon after  she arrived . Can anyone else see in her hair ,as if very small thin plaits around in her hair

I can see what you mean if I enlarge that photo.  I can see what seems like thin braids, but they are underneath her outer hair and you can just see them in a dark gap in the hair near where her right ear would be.  But it`s an unlikely place to do braiding so I think its just a distortion or pixelation in the photo.

Yes its on her right side and the ends just look much more bulky than  a single hair. But ofcourse it could be pixels  distorting it . Not too important really . joyce1938

Image distortion - another example..

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With regard to hair length, which is important if the make-up photo is to be considered part of the holiday. 
The two photos put up above by Verdi were taken on Saturday afternoon, the first afternoon of the holiday.

I see Madeleine's fringe extending below her eyebrows to almost her lower eye lids in the two play area photos.
In the Last Photo her hair is blown to a central point above her nose, but drawing a line, it is level to her lower eyelid.
In the make-up photo her hair is drastically parted, but the hair of her fringe is still on a line with her bottom eye lid. 

I would say that the length of her fringe is the same in the play area photos, the Last Photo and the make-up photo. 

We can't see where Madeleine's hair ends in the make-up photo. Hair has weight, and as I see the same curvature near her ears and neck, in the make up photo when compared to the others above, then my guess is it's same hair length all over. 

I think the parting and the head tilting back pose adds an illusion of greater length. 
Just my opinion, of course.

JRP wrote:With regard to hair length, which is important if the make-up photo is to be considered part of the holiday. 
The two photos put up above by Verdi were taken on Saturday afternoon, the first afternoon of the holiday.

I see Madeleine's fringe extending below her eyebrows to almost her lower eye lids in the two play area photos.
In the Last Photo her hair is blown to a central point above her nose, but drawing a line, it is level to her lower eyelid.
In the make-up photo her hair is drastically parted, but the hair of her fringe is still on a line with her bottom eye lid. 

I would say that the length of her fringe is the same in the play area photos, the Last Photo and the make-up photo. 

We can't see where Madeleine's hair ends in the make-up photo. Hair has weight, and as I see the same curvature near her ears and neck, in the make up photo when compared to the others above, then my guess is it's same hair length all over. 

I think the parting and the head tilting back pose adds an illusion of greater length. 
Just my opinion, of course.

I won't clutter the page by posting-up the images again but if you stick the various images under question side by side, I don't think there can be any doubt that Madeleine's hair length is the same throughout.  Probably why her mother used hair adornments but missing from the playground photographs - what with pre-holiday preparation, travelling and playground excitement, no time for fancy hairdos.

From photograph evidence, Madeleine on the whole wasn't very well presented - her mother is no fashionista.

Verdi wrote:

JRP wrote:With regard to hair length, which is important if the make-up photo is to be considered part of the holiday. 
The two photos put up above by Verdi were taken on Saturday afternoon, the first afternoon of the holiday.

I see Madeleine's fringe extending below her eyebrows to almost her lower eye lids in the two play area photos.
In the Last Photo her hair is blown to a central point above her nose, but drawing a line, it is level to her lower eyelid.
In the make-up photo her hair is drastically parted, but the hair of her fringe is still on a line with her bottom eye lid. 

I would say that the length of her fringe is the same in the play area photos, the Last Photo and the make-up photo. 

We can't see where Madeleine's hair ends in the make-up photo. Hair has weight, and as I see the same curvature near her ears and neck, in the make up photo when compared to the others above, then my guess is it's same hair length all over. 

I think the parting and the head tilting back pose adds an illusion of greater length. 
Just my opinion, of course.

I won't clutter the page by posting-up the images again but if you stick the various images under question side by side, I don't think there can be any doubt that Madeleine's hair length is the same throughout.  Probably why her mother used hair adornments but missing from the playground photographs - what with pre-holiday preparation, travelling and playground excitement, no time for fancy hairdos.

From photograph evidence, Madeleine on the whole wasn't very well presented - her mother is no fashionista.

Glad you said that, I've been wondering how many other parents would allow a fringe to grow that long, especially before a holiday. So long its nearly in her eyes. But hey maybe I.m just a fusspot, but it really annoys me to see hair in a child's eyes!

Roxyroo wrote:

Verdi wrote:

JRP wrote:With regard to hair length, which is important if the make-up photo is to be considered part of the holiday. 
The two photos put up above by Verdi were taken on Saturday afternoon, the first afternoon of the holiday.

I see Madeleine's fringe extending below her eyebrows to almost her lower eye lids in the two play area photos.
In the Last Photo her hair is blown to a central point above her nose, but drawing a line, it is level to her lower eyelid.
In the make-up photo her hair is drastically parted, but the hair of her fringe is still on a line with her bottom eye lid. 

I would say that the length of her fringe is the same in the play area photos, the Last Photo and the make-up photo. 

We can't see where Madeleine's hair ends in the make-up photo. Hair has weight, and as I see the same curvature near her ears and neck, in the make up photo when compared to the others above, then my guess is it's same hair length all over. 

I think the parting and the head tilting back pose adds an illusion of greater length. 
Just my opinion, of course.

I won't clutter the page by posting-up the images again but if you stick the various images under question side by side, I don't think there can be any doubt that Madeleine's hair length is the same throughout.  Probably why her mother used hair adornments but missing from the playground photographs - what with pre-holiday preparation, travelling and playground excitement, no time for fancy hairdos.

From photograph evidence, Madeleine on the whole wasn't very well presented - her mother is no fashionista.

Glad you said that, I've been wondering how many other parents would allow a fringe to grow that long, especially before a holiday. So long its nearly in her eyes. But hey maybe I.m just a fusspot, but it really annoys me to see hair in a child's eyes!

Fusspot Roxyroo?  Nah! 

Apart from looking downright scruffy, it must be awfully uncomfortable for the child.  Can't make up my mind whether the overall look Kate McCann was aiming towards was Shabby Chic or Bohemian Chick or Shabby Bohemian Chic - whatever, the net result is more Les Miserables.

Poor kid, never stood a chance in life did she.

But haircuts were important to the Mccanns, sure the twins managed to 'squeeze a haircut in' 3 weeks after Madeleine went missing. Then Gerry 'squeezed' one in shortly after!

I just didn't want to be the one who actually said it aloud! Hairs too long and the jogging bottoms look so long she might trip over them. But you see as the mother of a child with poor mobility I always look out for these things subconsciously so wasn't sure if it was my own bias or not....

Roxyroo wrote:I just didn't want to be the one who actually said it aloud! Hairs too long and the jogging bottoms look so long she might trip over them. But you see as the mother of a child with poor mobility I always look out for these things subconsciously so wasn't sure if it was my own bias or not....

Rest assured - you ain't the only one who's noticed.

I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy  bright   lipstick and clownish  blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to  when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy  bright   lipstick and clownish  blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to  when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

Exactly Kaz, and they laugh cheekily because they are having  so much fun.

kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy  bright   lipstick and clownish  blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to  when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

Whist tottering around on size 5 heels?  Don't think Kate McCann's jesus creepers quite cuts the mustard.

Verdi wrote:

kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy  bright   lipstick and clownish  blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to  when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

Whist tottering around on size 5 heels?  Don't think Kate McCann's jesus creepers quite cuts the mustard.

This thread attracted a lot of discussion but there have been no further comments since 15 July.

The reason for reviving the thread is that I have just re-visited this thread:    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - which was about the controversial 'Make Up Photo'. I never really noticed these two partocular observations at the time. But, looking back, it seems that these two commenters (who posted comments on a Daily Mail article about the Jon Corner video) were very observant:

1    “I'm looking at her hair. The fringe is kind of grown out and comes to beneath her eyes, just like in "The Last Photo" – the one of Maddie by the pool with Gerry and Amelie. If you look at pictures of her a few weeks before, in Donegal, her fringe isn't that long. If it was taken before the holiday, it must have been JUST before IMO.”

2    “Still do not understand the purpose of the photo with the blue eyeshadow .Anybody noticed that on this said photo, the right side of the background seems to show the same wall than the wall in the new released video. Right in the beginning the video shows Praia de Luz and one can see wall very similar to the photo. So was the photo taken while on holiday? Is the photo meant to remember somebody who was there, when the photo was taken?”

If indeed the 'Last Photo' was taken on the Sunday, then IMO what these two commenters said six years ago is very concerning

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Sat on this for the longest time. Info has been passed on where it should be. Since I heard nothing back but echo I'm posting just the image for feedback.

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Sat on this for the longest time. Info has been passed on where it should be. Since I heard nothing back but echo I'm posting just the image for feedback.

Thank you @ April 28th.

I think it would be helpful if you could further clarify your post, please.

Specifically, looking at the map and then at the photo, are you saying:

A. That the photo is of the apartment shown on the map as 'Club Cottage No 5'? and
B. If so, that you can definitely say that that this is where the Make-Up Photo was taken?

For myself, I see similarities between the two locations, but I cannot go so far as to suggest they are one and the same.

I add that the colour of the stucco on both photos does look remarkably similar.

The comments of those people on my post immediately above AND your photo reinforce my conviction that this hugely controversial Make Up Photo WAS taken in Praia da Luz and therefore provides valuable forensic evidence about what really happened to Madeleine.

It is worth looking again at the forthright comments made by so many people about the Make-Up Photo, which so many people called a 'Lolita' photo, after Vladimir Nabokov's novel of the same name:

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Sorry but the two walls do not look the same to me same colour at top but bottom half is white

I suspect that the wall of the club cottage is white but that the colour comes through from the sun blind.

  Doug D
    I suspect that the wall of the club cottage is white but that the colour comes through from the sun blind.

Yes. As such the colour coverage varies depending on the time of day (apartment 1 in the same row actually has the same kind of blind). Speculation about its content aside, I believe the makeup photo to be the true 'last photo'.

Note also that is a recent image taken from Google Street View, so the hanging plant may not have been there in 2007 (just the bracket).

A lot of things have to be pulled together for this, I will try and lay out some of them here, without going too off topic.

In Gerry's May 10th statement, a lot of new details are added. The specificity about the Millenium Restaurant is important;

    ----- They arrived at the destination between 18h50 and 19h00 having set themselves up at a large table where they all ate dinner, including the children who were seated between the adults, never leaving the place except for one of the twins who went to the bathroom with the deponent. About an hour later they finished dinner returning, again on foot by the same route, though going wrong in one of the streets where they should have turned left, ending up only turning at the next street. He adds that, as they were all very tired they went directly to the apartment arriving at 20h10/20h15, the route back having been slightly faster given that the twins were carried all the way.

The only way they could go wrong is by not taking the left turn passing Casa Liliana, as this rough image shows;

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(sorry for rough image, I made it quickly to show the route)

Said route (blue) would not be 'quicker'.

We are being asked to take in a few things with this;
 - That they may have been seen carrying the twins 'with haste' on that night (no Madeleine?)
 - That they 'went the wrong way' despite having previously made the trip with no issues
 - That this was the only night everyone dined with their children
 - That they may have been seen approaching their complex from the direction of the M537-1 rather than Mill (perhaps having being dropped off at the crossroads?)


 

  ----- In the apartment they bathed the children and gave them a glass of milk putting them down at exactly 20h45, remembering that time because it was exactly one hour later than their usual bedtime. After putting down the children the deponent and his wife took a bath then settled down in the lounge to watch television. He points out that at the moment they arrived at the residence DP invited them to go for a glass of wine after putting down the children but they turned down the offer as they were extremely tired. He thinks that nobody left their apartments on the first night. Asked, he said that in England, when not on holiday, he and his wife would go to bed at 22h30/23h00, the twins at 19h00 and MADELEINE at 19H30.

Nowhere has it ever been stated that the children usually went to bed at 1945, in fact he contradicts this in the last sentence - this given time in itself is a red flag.

David Payne is used to alibi their arrival; why? Could this be related to the absence of his second interview in the files?

How can, or why would, Gerry say with any surety that the rest of the group 'stayed in after they got in'?

    ----- The following day (Sunday) the children woke up at 08h00, he and his wife having woken up at 07h30. They dressed and about 08h40 left the apartment going to the MILLENIUM restaurant, once more on foot and by the same route as the previous night, but without the mistake referred to previously, arriving there at 08h45/09h00. The group did not all arrive at the same time, rather in a phased manner, because they were not all seated at the same table.

Despite the supposed reservations about distance, they still have breakfast at the Mill.

The assertion that they 'did not repeat their mistake' makes no sense because the mistake was made on the return journey, not on the way there. So verifying this 'mistaken route' seems to be important - why?

None of Madeleine's DNA was ever found in 5A, and while there were several hairs which could not garner a profile, the only sample on 'Madeleine's' bed which could be attributed (one of only four hairs) was Kate's. So, did Madeleine in fact spend that night in the Club phase area, rejoining her family at breakfast?

It's well documented that every night one parent was absent from dinner, Matt even tells us that he absents himself from the Mill this night and subsequently spends most of the next day (30th) alone in his apartment. This 'intestinal problem' seems to make its way through the group (minus the McCanns), despite DOCTOR Oldfield having attributed it to 'bad airplane food'.

It's also documented forensically that while forensic traces of the 3 year old Gordon child who had stayed in 5A the week before the McCanns left many samples, not one was left by Madeleine (though it is possible some of the unattributed hairs could belong to the McCann children, so we can't empirically state they weren't there). The twins had no bedding in their cots on the night of the 3rd.

There are three tennis courts at the Mill, including two with an elevated lawn behind them - offering the same vantage for a photo as the Tapas courts. The 'tennis photo' could've been taken after a knockabout at/after breakfast on the Sunday. There are no tennis 'sessions' listed at weekends.

There's an interesting note from Russell's statement when describing why they agreed on Tapas instead of Millennium from then onwards;

    The deponent furthers that the daughters of David and Fiona Payne are very agitated, and that they preferred to be the closest possible to the apartment.

Why are the Payne children singled out exclusively by Russell? Why should they be agitated after the first night - did they (or more likely just L) also spend that evening away from their parents?

Also, there were staff at the Mill who claimed to have seen the family regularly at breakfast. This has understandably been viewed as a mistake to this point, but assuming something happened to Madeleine on the 29th/30th in the club phase apartment, if Madeleine was staying there rather than in 5A, Gerry's 'creche shortcut' starts to make sense, either because it alibis noone having seen him taking Madeleine, or it alibis him having been seen from an odd direction. And their presence in the Mill makes more sense if they were also collecting Madeleine.

There are oddities in other guest movements in the Club Phase area, eg. the Gorrods arriving in Portugal on the 28th but not checking into their Club apartment until the 30th (Jane alibis them on that day - incidentally their place is opposite Apartment 5), Neema Balva Patel leaving early (on the 2nd rather than the 3rd) etc.

Aware I'm approaching tl;dr territory at this point so I will leave it at that for this post. I had written more but lost half my post when I clicked 'preview'

just an aiside, but I'm surprised that one of the twins is taken to the bathroom-I thought they wore nappies?

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Don't know if I'm being more than usually idiotic but I'm really struggling to make any sense of this latest theory of yours.  Forgive me if I've missed something, I don't think so because you say you have been sitting on this for a long time - at this stage I won't question who this has been sent to, I presume you have your reasons for not revealing.
 
In simple terms would you be so good as to explain a) where all this information comes from  b) what makes you think the make-up photograph is the actual last photograph of Madeleine and more importantly c) what makes you think that Madeleine McCann or any of the other children were not in the allocated accommodation provided by Warner holidays at any given time during the week but instead at some other location.  Not forgetting to mention why you think they might have been housed elsewhere.  I frankly can't see any rationale in your extensive theorizing.

I also take the opportunity to say, from my understanding David Payne was only formally interviewed by the PJ on Friday 4th May 2007, as also applied to Kate McCann and Fiona Payne, if I remember rightly.  I can't check the facts because mccannfiles is no more and I haven't yet fathomed Pamalam's redaction.  This in my opinion is an important factor in it's own right but not because, as you claim, a second witness statement wasn't included in the published PJ files for the simple reason, it didn't exist.  I could of course be wrong on this but I don't think so because it's a matter that's been niggling for a very long time.  Somewhere along the way I recall reading that Kate McCann couldn't be formally re-interviewed as she was said to have been too traumatized - I don't feel that same excuse can be applied to David and Fiona Payne.

This is a picture with the sun shade in, from Aug 09 it is pure white as are all of the properties
around it, so make up photo definitely not taken at this location.



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The "make up" photo was said to have been taken on "A family holiday" so doubtful it was the PDL holiday or I think they would have said ? I think it was most likely taken on holiday the year before in 2006 there is another photograph with the twins on GM's knee where he is wearing a blue tshirt which matches the blue in the "makeup" photo. Maddies appearance is also very similiar IMO

Have the Sol e mar apartments had a drastic makeover ?
If not it couldn't have been taken there either

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Grande Finale:
 
‘so make up photo definitely not taken at this location’
 
Not jumping either way, but the wall colouring comes from the canopy being out, with the colour coming through it, as in April 28^th’s picture above.
    
The white wall certainly does not ‘definitely’ exclude this as a location.